Scientists give a face to ancient Greek girl

[Beorn]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Portals/0-Articles/175967/ancient-600.jpg?width=300



Greek scientists and archaeologists have given an ancient Athenian girl from the 5th century BC a face by using her skeleton, found in an ancient grave. 'Myrtis' has been brought back to life through facial reconstruction from her intact skull and teeth.

The 11-year-old Athenian girl died of typhoid fever in 430 BC during a plague, and her bones were found in a mass grave near the ancient Athenian cemetery of Keramikos when the Athens subway was being dug up in 1995. The mass grave was full of 150 men, women and children.
Professor and orthodontist from the University of Athens Manolis Papagrigorakis, with a team of one Swedish and 19 Greek scientists, said Myrtis was chosen because of the good condition of her skull and teeth that gave them a lot to work with.

"We had all of the skull, the jaw, and the teeth, and something very rare - the milk teeth on the skull. These all helped us to be accurate with the final product, and we are very close - 95 percent close to reality with the final product," said Papagrigorakis during a presentation at the National Archaeological Museum.
The scientists used a 3-D technological program called the "Manchester method" - from the University of Manchester - often used on Egyptian mummies, for the reconstruction process.

Papagrigorakis took DNA from the teeth of the other skulls in the grave to prove that they had died of typhoid fever. DNA was not taken from Myrtis herself because the team did not want to damage her intact teeth.
"The first part of the research was an analysis of the ancient DNA in order find out what the Athenians of the period had died of in Athens. This study took place in 2006 and it was found to be typhoid fever," Papagrigorakis explained.
Typhoid fever killed many during the period, including Pericles, the great ancient Athenian statesman who had the vision of building the Acropolis. The Classical period of Greece is its most famous, when art, architecture and philosophy flourished.

Greek archaeologist Efi Baziotopoulou, who excavated the Keramikos site, contributed historical information for the colour of Myrtis hair, eyes, and dress, and gave her her name, said Papagrigorakis.
Myrtis has been placed near funerary steles from the cemetery of the same period in the museum.

The exhibition at the museum has been called "Face to Face with the Past", and Papagrigorakis says they will also attempt the same reconstruction on another man and woman.
Because of her death from typhoid fever, Myrtis has even been made a representative of the United Nations Millennium Development Goals, a project to raise awareness over various issues in the world including child health.


Source (http://www.3news.co.nz/Scientists-give-a-face-to-ancient-Greek-girl/tabid/1160/articleID/175967/Default.aspx)


xfiSHmsYPUU

[Comte Arnau]

Is it known what kind of information was used to know about the hair colour?

[Ibericus]

This has some months. I saw the same with black hair :

http://www.thenationalherald.com/imagesup/original-24671.jpg

[Korbis]

No wonder homosexuality was the fashion back then.

[Curtis24]

Is this thread destined for the "are Southern Europeans white" garbage bin? They said they asked a Greek archaeologist to provide info about the hair color. Why chose red, I can't say.

[Curtis24]

No wonde homosexuality was the fashion back then.

It is difficult to judge ancient peoples by our standards of beauty. Physical attractiveness can be strongly effected by prenatal nutrition; there's wasn't nearly as good as ours.

[Mordid]

She look sort of Alpine.

[Curtis24]

She look sort of Alpine.

As many Greeks are and were...

[Wyn]

These reconstruction things: how do they determine things like the shape of the lower nose, thickness/shape of lips etc?

[Mordid]

As many Greeks are and were...

I've alway thought that ancient Greek look like Nordid but i might be wrong.

[Curtis24]

They looked pretty much like what they looked like today, basically Mediterranid with Alpinid influence. But there were and are minorities of Alpinids and Dinarids.

[Korbis]

I think it would be way more interesting to determine the average height of people in ancient times and middle age. Always have been said that in middle age they were midgets compared to us due to their defficient nutrition but looking at the size of the armors they used seems like they are exaggerating a bit.

[Curtis24]

Actually, there is a scientist out there who has created an entire history of documenting and analyzing the heights of different historical populations. I can't remember his name though :(

Generally, the upper class and the warriors usually tended to be tall, while the peasants/food-producing class were usually short, because of differences in nutrition. I remember that that guy who's name I can't remember, said that the Germanic invaders during the Fall of the Roman Empire, were on average 6' feet tall! Something about them living in a more tribal, egalitarian, less dense population where everyone got enough to eat.

[Ibericus]

I've alway thought that ancient Greek look like Nordid but i might be wrong.
That's nazi fantasies. Ancient greeks were not much different than current Greeks.

[Comte Arnau]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Reveller_courtesan_BM_E44.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Apollo_black_bird_AM_Delphi_8140.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/NAMA_Sacrifice_aux_Charites.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Mycenean_lady_from_Knossos.JPG

http://www.wanderwoman.com/images/santorini_FRESCO.jpg

http://arkyotras.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/knossos_fresco_women.jpg

http://dinkulturuveahlaksilgisi.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/la_parisienne_fresco_knossos.jpg

[Óttar]

It is difficult to judge ancient peoples by our standards of beauty. Physical attractiveness can be strongly effected by prenatal nutrition; there's wasn't nearly as good as ours.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Girls didn't get fed as much because they were the lowest in the pecking order.

[Beorn]

Is it known what kind of information was used to know about the hair colour?

Brian Foley AKA Creeping Death may have been contacted.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8187

:D

[Korbis]

She could have been blonde as well. Alexander the great and Achilles were described as such. And yes, I know the latter is fictional.

[Don Brick]

I think it would be way more interesting to determine the average height of people in ancient times and middle age. Always have been said that in middle age they were midgets compared to us due to their defficient nutrition but looking at the size of the armors they used seems like they are exaggerating a bit.

Medieval people weren´t actually that much shorter than nowadays. For instance 9th century Europeans were a lot taller than their counterparts a thousand years later. The heights of ancient peoples varied a lot, but overall of course they were shorter than now.

[San Galgano]

She could have been blonde as well. Alexander the great and Achilles were described as such. And yes, I know the latter is fictional.

Huh?:wink

http://www.daringtodo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/c1_alexander.jpg

[Ibericus]

http://www.daringtodo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/c1_alexander.jpg
Dinarid-Med face, tanned, dark hair, typical greek :) Not a viking for sure, sorry nordicists, maybe next time..

[Korbis]

I can recall several descriptions of Alexander regarding him as a blondie.....Why did Oliver Stone portrayed him in his deplorable movie as a blonde queer? Oh, wathever. :rolleyes2:

Anyway, blond does not equal nordic. Is a recessive trait. I have blonde spanish relatives and there´s nothing typically nordic in them apart from pigmentation.

[Comte Arnau]

Oh, come on, now you are going to tell me that Hollywood is wrong when representing world phenotypes? What a disappointment, I'm about to cry.

[Curtis24]

The mosaic posted was actually painted hundreds of years after Alexander, by a Roman supposedly copying an original.

Here's a bust by the Greek sculptor Lyssipos, who supposedly was authorized by Alexander to make it. IMO is it is probably the most accurate depiction of Alexander:

http://i51.tinypic.com/s116c0.jpg

[lei.talk]

That's an exaggeration obviously, but fact is that the free upper class of most Indo-European people, actually of most people we know of, were usually, if no strange layers came up with f.e. Mongolid hordes, were taller, more progressive and leptomorphic.

This seems to have been true particularly for those Indo-Europeans which had a certain proportion of unfree people under them like the Celts and Slavs.

The difference between especially higher level warrior graves and those of servants is often amazing.


Originally Posted by Anti (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16240)-Nordicist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race#Origins_of_Nordicism) http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/kiddo/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226761#post226761)
:clap2: "all your civilizational founders are belong to us (http://www.white-history.com/hwr10.htm)" :clap2:
*

[Ibericus]

The mosaic posted was actually painted hundreds of years after Alexander, by a Roman supposedly copying an original.

Here's a bust by the Greek sculptor Lyssipos, who supposedly was authorized by Alexander to make it. IMO is it is probably the most accurate depiction of Alexander:

http://i51.tinypic.com/s116c0.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/2h4yy3s.jpg
Indeed very Greek/Balkan face. Specially the nose and eye-brows. I would say dinarid-med with Alpine. He kinda looks similar to this man :

http://archivo.marca.com/baloncesto/2007/playoffs-acb/imgs/planinic.jpg

http://www.kosarka.hr/Media2/zoran_planinic_1_255.jpg

[lysandros]

No wonder homosexuality was the fashion back then.

It was never fashion in ancient Greece, this is just propaganda of the modern homosexual lobby. In ancient Athens and Sparta homosexuality was prosecuted.

[lysandros]

I'm wondering why all reconstructions of ancient people in diffrent countries look alike? This girl didn't look greek at all.

[antonio]

I can recall several descriptions of Alexander regarding him as a blondie.....Why did Oliver Stone portrayed him in his deplorable movie as a blonde queer? Oh, wathever. :rolleyes2:


A bizarre selection of a queerly looking blonde dyed off a rude working-class Irishman, and, BTW, completelly dissimilar to all Alenxandro contemporary representations. Probably just to appeal feminine public: that dude seems to be a great appeal to many of them. Although taking into account one of the reportedly most attractive actors is a melting-pot subproduct (for his objective ugliness) called Johnny Deep, everything is possible on the crazy if not plain paradoxal world of male beauty. Needless to say if I were born woman, my taste with be for gracile males with almost feminine facial traits...of course just until openly admit my lesbian condition. :D

[poiuytrewq0987]

It was never fashion in ancient Greece, this is just propaganda of the modern homosexual lobby. In ancient Athens and Sparta homosexuality was prosecuted.
ZqUUNY2JLjk

[jerney]

No wonder homosexuality was the fashion back then.

If those are the only two options one is given, I'd hope men preferred to fuck other men than 11 year old girls

[Curtis24]

I dug up another side profile of Alexander the Great from Lyssipos(an actual contemporary of Alexander). I consider this one more accurate than the first side profile I posted, since it is more in line with the front-profile of Alexander.

http://i53.tinypic.com/6jkeb7.jpg

[Curtis24]

Indeed very Greek/Balkan face. Specially the nose and eye-brows. I would say dinarid-med with Alpine. He kinda looks similar to this man :



I will take your word for it, since I can't really classify, and have never been to Greece or the Balkans. There's also a new pic up more in line with his front profile. The other side profile seemed a bit "prettied up".