Did China discover America?

[Kazimiera]

Did China discover America?

Source: https://www.1843magazine.com/content/places/rosie-blau/rewriting-history-map?fsrc=scn%2Ffb%2Fte%2Fbl%2Fed%2F

This map claims that a Chinese Muslim beat Columbus to it. But is it real?

In 1405 a Chinese Muslim eunuch, Zheng He, launched the first of seven voyages west from China across the Indian Ocean. Over the next 30 years, in command of the world’s largest fleet and funded by the Ming emperor, he sailed to the east coast of Africa and deep into the Persian Gulf. That much, we know, is true.

But some people believe he went much farther—and this map is one reason. Entitled “General chart of the integrated world”, it is apparently an 18th-century copy of a 1418 map which claims to show the world that Zheng He discovered. If it is real, it rewrites history, for it shows that he circumnavigated the globe and—most provocatively—that he discovered America more than 70 years before Columbus.

The map came to light in 2001 when a Shanghai lawyer, Liu Gang, says he bought it from a local dealer for around $500. He believes it proves that Zheng navigated the waters around both poles, the Americas, the Mediterranean and Australia too. In 2003 Gavin Menzies used it as evidence for his book “1421: the year China discovered the world”.

The outlines of the continents on the map are instantly recognisable. Some aspects are characteristically Chinese: the blue, fan-like waves are part of China’s cartographic tradition, as are the annotations with textual descriptions of places. The map is impressively detailed. It shows the two hemispheres of the world, a convention for depicting the round Earth on flat paper. The contours of North and South America are clear, as are the rivers running from far inland. We can see the Arctic. And the Himalayas, among whose foothills Zheng He was born, are marked as the highest mountain range in the world.

https://www.1843magazine.com/sites/default/files/0515IL_PL_MAP_01-header_0.jpg

It is these detailed elements, however, that give the game away. Only Europeans represented the globe this way. European explorers completed travels like this over the course of hundreds of years, rather than Zheng He’s 30, which makes it almost impossible that his maritime voyage would have had such a specific grasp of river courses. The Arctic appears first on a Ming Chinese map only in 1593. And the world’s greatest mountain range was labelled as such only in the 19th century.

“This map is a complete nonsense,” says Professor Timothy Brook of the University of British Columbia. He believes that what you see here is a copy of a European map from the early 17th century. But it is still interesting, because of the stories attached to it and the recent hype surrounding Zheng He. He was certainly a great mariner, but had been largely forgotten until the late 1990s when the history of his quest was resurrected and he was embraced as a national hero. As Brook puts it: “The West had a Columbus and the Chinese needed one.”

The debate over the veracity of this map is emblematic of the current arguments over China’s role on the world stage. President Xi Jinping hails Zheng He as one of China’s great innovators and an example of its early, peaceful exchanges overseas. Though he does not claim that Zheng He found America, he holds up his voyages as an inspiration for a new maritime silk road that is now being promoted to expand Chinese trade and influence abroad.

Though Columbus and Zheng He both sailed the seas, their purposes were quite different. Columbus’s mission was commercial, Zheng He’s diplomatic: he was sent to bring back envoys from other countries to pay homage to the new Yongle emperor, who had usurped power from his nephew and needed to find a way to assert his legitimacy.

With the end of Zheng He’s life, China’s explorations on the high seas finished too. By this time there was a new emperor with less need to finance pricey expeditions. For the next few hundred years China largely turned in on itself. What would have happened if the Chinese fleet had been allowed to continue is one of the great counterfactuals of history. Instead, while Columbus forged his way to the New World, Zheng He died a quiet death—at sea or at home, it is not known—and few beyond China now know his name.

[zhaoyun]

No he didn't. He sailed to Africa but not to the Americas. The British author who is claiming this is a sensationalist who creates fantasies out of baseless facts and extrapolates wildly. He's a scam artist and a bullshit salesman, is what he is.

[Svipdag]

There was a book published 50 or 60 years ago (I saw it only in paperback and whether there was a hard-cover version, I don't know) titled "They ALL Discovered America." I'm beginning to agree with that title.

[wvwvw]

Even the Minoans, Romans and Vikings have sailed to America so why not the Chinese too.

[Poise n Pen]

I think lots of people WENT to america. That is not quite the same.

However there is evidence that in copper age times there was huge amounts of copper mined in the USA and then sent back to egypt and europe. There's also been corn and tobacco found in egypt and a few other places.

[Cristiano viejo]

Even the Minoans, Romans and Vikings have sailed to America so why not the Chinese too.

:lol:

[wvwvw]

I think lots of people WENT to america. That is not quite the same.

However there is evidence that in copper age times there was huge amounts of copper mined in the USA and then sent back to egypt and europe. There's also been corn and tobacco found in egypt and a few other places.

The Minoan ships were not surpassed until the 16th century according to Gavin Menzies

Gavin Menzies, in his book, initially follows the Minoan traces in Asia Minor, in Egypt, in Yemen, in India and Ceylon- where the Sangam epics of the Tamil still speak about “the magnificent ships of the Greeks bringing gold and leave laden with pepper…”. Surprised by the museum findings which vindicated Strabo and Ptolemy, the author not only considered the navigation secrets held by the Minoans, but also where they found all those quantities of metals that they traded. The copper mines of Cyprus as it is historically known could not even meet the requirements of the Pharaohs. Yet the Minoans gave them bronze saws doped with tin to cut the stone blocks of the …pyramids. As was written in the records of the Acadian king Skarga, the Minoan ships brought since 2350 BC tin from Spain and Britain. And then this unlikely finding of 1450 BC at the Akrotirion in Santorini where did it come from? Lasioderma serricorne, meaning larva of the tobacco leaf! Yes the smoke that we all knew that first arrived in Europe in 16th century AD from the American continent. So, Menzies, now turned west searching to find whether-and how-those intrepid sailors had not only crossed the portals of Hercules, but had also arrived in the New World.

[Kriptc06]

Even the Minoans, Romans and Vikings have sailed to America so why not the Chinese too.

Romans? :lol:

[wvwvw]

Cats were domesticated in Cyprus 5000 years before they were in Egypt. Cypriot civilization preceded Egyptian civilization. Egyptians paid Cypriot merchants for copper from Cyprus and Egyptian Pharaohs regarded Cypriot kings as equals whereas the regarded the Phoenicians as their inferiors.

From Egyptian inscriptions we know the Minoans of pre-2000 BC called themselves Kittim, Kyftu, Kyferu or Keferim ie. Kypraioi. These people were Cypriots.

And they spoke Greek. Linear B was being used to write Greek since 1600 BC and before that Linear A was being used in Greece and Cyprus since 1900 BC. The Cypriot variant of Linear A was used to write Greek until around 400 BC which proves the Cypriots were speaking Greek already from 1900 BC.

Native American languages contain many Greek words like Potamos and Igloo (from Greek Oikos)

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Even the Minoans, Romans and Vikings have sailed to America so why not the Chinese too.

don't forget the Phoenicians, there Phoenician inscriptions in Brazil

[wvwvw]

Romans? :lol:

Ancient Romans landed in America:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/history/628827/ANCIENT-ROMANS-America-eerie-discovery-change-history

[wvwvw]

don't forget the Phoenicians, there Phoenician inscriptions in Brazil

Yes they too sailed to America.

[Kriptc06]

Ancient Romans landed in America:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/history/628827/ANCIENT-ROMANS-America-eerie-discovery-change-history

:bowlol:

[alpha]

That map is obviously based on a Spanish map.

[LieDetector]

:pound:

[Cristiano viejo]

:bowlol:

hehehehe

[wvwvw]

The Minoans after 2000 BC were mixed up with Pelasgians, Aioleans and Dorians.

The Cretans before 2000 BC shouldn't be called Minoans but Hellads. (Not to be confused with Hellenes). Minos lived just three generations before the trojan war and was the great-grandfather of Menelaus and Agamemnon. He was Hellene. The people who build the Cretan Palace civilization and build the Thalassocracy sea empire of Minos were Greek Hellenes.

[Longbowman]

When I saw Raine had posted here I knew it was going to be bullshit.

Mark you, the claim in the article is also bullshit.

'We found America, then totally forgot about it. NBD.'

[wvwvw]

:bowlol:

What's so funny?

[Bell Beaker]

The Minoans after 2000 BC were mixed up with Pelasgians, Aioleans and Dorians.

The Cretans before 2000 BC shouldn't be called Minoans. Minos lived just three generations before the trojan war and was the great-grandfather of Menelaus and Agamemnon! He was Hellene. The people who build the Cretan Palace civilization and build the Thalassocracy sea empire of Minos were Greek Hellenes.

Greeks found and invented everything, except your brain.

[Kriptc06]

What's so funny?

Nothing i was just amused to discover the romans landed here. ego non potestas credere :eek:

[Bell Beaker]

Nothing i was just amused to discover the romans landed here. ego non potestas credere :eek:

Romans landed, Greeks Found.

Greeks found and invented everything, even Patagonia.

[Tietar]

the ancestors of native Americans arrived long before Vikings, Chinese, and the whole fucking world who "discovered" America.

But that is not to discover, discover as the name suggests is to remove the cover and make it known to the world,
and this never happened until 1492

and this date will be recognized as the discovery for ever and ever, and no one can ever change

[Kriptc06]

the ancestors of native Americans arrived long before Vikings, Chinese, and the whole fucking world who "discovered" America.

But that is not to discover, discover as the name suggests is to remove the cover and make it known to the world, and that only happened in 1492

True, thats why amerinds look "asiatic", well they are.

[Bell Beaker]

Among Portuguese teens and young adults when you had to do a search for your school project you usually searched on books, but now everything is more easy with the Internet, so when many students search something in the web for any issue that they want to work on, for their school project they always found Brazilian websites before more credible ones.

It's not that we have nothing against Brazilian sites, but given that most of them are just spam, pseudo-science and most of the times with a dubious Portuguese, many people associate many websites ending in .br as a fraud.

It's kinda like finding out that Raine posted a post about a history/science related thread. You know it's going to be BS, fraud, and blatant troll.

[Kriptc06]

Among Portuguese teens and young adults when you had to do a search for your school project you usually searched on books, but now everything is more easy with the Internet, so when many students search something in the web for any issue that they want to work on, for their school project they always found Brazilian websites before more credible ones.

It's not that we have nothing against Brazilian sites, but given that most of them are just spam, pseudo-science and most of the times with a dubious Portuguese, many people associate many websites ending in .br as a fraud.

It's kinda like finding out that Raine posted a post about a history/science related thread. You know it's going to be BS, fraud, and blatant troll.

dubious portuguese lol i died, we have some particular rules, spelling and grammar, but in essence is the same..
but come on trust BR. hueheuehueheueuehueheu

[wvwvw]

It's kinda like finding out that Raine posted a post about a history/science related thread. You know it's going to be BS, fraud, and blatant troll.

There are traces of Minoans from Scandinavia and Britain to North America, and the fact that Ancient Greeks knew about America is also supported by historical texts like that of Plutarch. Feel free to ignore all the evidence. Even Cretan dna has been found in native indians.

Numerous findings seem to concede that the Minoans were keen navigators who crossed the Atlantic. They created colonies even in Canada and exploited local copper mines.


Cherokees Spoke Greek and Came from East Mediterranean

Another record of Greek-speaking people in ancient America is the Possum Creek Stone, discovered by Gloria Farley in Oklahoma in the 1970s. It is discussed by her in Volume 2 of In Plain Sight as proof that the man history knows as Sequoyah did not invent the Cherokee syllabary. The inscription can be read as Greek, HO-NI-KA-SA or ‘o nikasa, i.e. “This is the one who takes the prize of victory,” a common inscription for the pedestal upon which victors were crowned at athletic games. The use is Homeric, and the spelling Doric.

A third piece of evidence helps fill in the background of the arrival of Greeks and their intermarriage with Asiatic and other Indians in North America. In 1870, an engraved 19 x 15 inch limestone tablet was uncovered in a mound excavation on Rocky Creek near Castalian Springs in Sumner County, Tennessee (see Ancient American, vol. 12, no. 77). Dating to an earlier time than its Mississipian Period context, it commemorates a peace treaty between the Cherokee and Shawnee. The Cherokee chief wears a horse-hair crested helmet and carries the spear and shield of a Greek hoplite. His Shawnee adversary clasps hands in a wedding ceremony with a Cherokee woman who bears wampum belts as a pledge of peace, has her hair in a maidenly bun, wears a Middle Eastern-style plaid kilt, and displays a large star of David. In the Red Record or Walam Olum, we learn that before crossing the Mississippi, somewhere along the south bank of the Missouri, the Algonquians or Lenni Lenape (Delaware Indians), who are later allied with the Cherokee, encounter a foreign tribe they call the Stonys. Cherokee legends about Stone-coat demonstrate that the original Cherokee had metal armor and weapons. DNA studies confirm a mixture of “anomalous” East Mediterranean mitochondrial lineages such as Egyptian T, Greek U and Phoenician X with “standard” American Indian haplogroups A, B, C and D in the Cherokee and certain other Eastern Woodlands Indians.

Greek rock carvings in Sweden from 1700 BC


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=hJlaOj03T_0

[Dick]

RAINE, I WANNA BREED WITH YOU.

[Cristiano viejo]

Cherokees spoke Greek... lol
Only missing to know if they were supporters of Panathinaikos or Olympiakos ;)

[JMack]

Let's make babies, Raine.

[DarknessWin]

the ancestors of native Americans arrived long before Vikings, Chinese, and the whole fucking world who "discovered" America.

But that is not to discover, discover as the name suggests is to remove the cover and make it known to the world,
and this never happened until 1492

and this date will be recognized as the discovery for ever and ever, and no one can ever change

True , maybe Minoans,Vikings and Romans or even Chinese went there but we had nothing about these discoveries.
Columbus discovered America and made it known to the whole world

[Hexachordia]

According to the materials from Graham Hancock, east indians claimed their ancestors came from the East not west, that is Europe or Africa not Asia. Another very strange thing is that they actually have little genetic relationship to pacifica islanders, and their migration/navigation are also unrelated at all as if they really came from Europe or Africa. Anyway, there have been multiple constant waves of massive mongoloid migration since the Last Ice Age untill this very day to all corners of the world. However, I strongly disagree to call people with mongoloid features as chinese, China should be defined with political and cultural heritage since the first unification by Qinshihuang around 200BC, there were no chinese before that date. The chinese map could be a copy from other cultures, such a possibility can not be ruled out.

[wvwvw]

Cherokees spoke Greek... lol
Only missing to know if they were supporters of Panathinaikos or Olympiakos ;)

The Minoans spoke Greek and speared the Greek language into native Indians, Europeans, and Indians. Minoans are the true proto-Indo-Europeans, if we accept there is a thing linguistically as Indo-European. It is wrongly called Indo- because the Indians never conquered the Europeans.

The Minoans were ethnic Greeks and their civilisation was not destroyed by anyone. It died by itself due to a volcanic eruption in 1628 BC and was replaced by the Argive and Aeolic civilisations. Tectemus the son of Dorus led an expedition of Aeolians and Pelasgians who colonised Crete. The Cretan ie. Minoan monarchy still continued to rule despite this with Minos II the son of Lycastus the son of Minos I becoming king after Asterius the son of Tectemus.

[DarknessWin]

According to the materials from Graham Hancock, east indians claimed their ancestors came from the East not west, that is Europe or Africa not Asia. Another very strange thing is that they actually have little genetic relationship to pacifica islanders, and their migration/navigation are also unrelated at all. If they came from Europe or Africa, One thing is sure, they were not chinese, there was no chinese before 200BC when Qinshihuang unified China for the first time. Anyway, there were many waves of massive mongoloid migration since the Last Ice Age untill this very day to all corners of the world. However, I strongly disagree to call people with all mongoloid features as chinese, China should be defined with political and cultural heritage since the first unification by Qinshihuang since 200BC, there were no chinese before that date. The chinese map could be a copy from other cultures, such a possibility can not be ruled out.

Its forgotten history of the past , middle earth and hobbit history.

America discovered after the ice age from Proto-Albanians or Proto-Shiptars

The first proto-albos let the glory land of Shipteria with many ships to discover the new lands

Here the leaders of the Spiptars :

http://orig02.deviantart.net/4d1a/f/2012/038/c/d/meanwhile_in_albania_by_hermanelig-d4ozghk.jpg


Albos discovered America and they let many symbols there , here the Albanian Chicken Symbol (ACS) in a rock somewhere in Brazil :

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/b0/54/7bb0547398602aa87d094203dd31ecf8.jpg


Everyone must read the book "Proto-Shipterian supremacy and globalization of the middle earth"

[DarknessWin]

Cherokees spoke Greek... lol
Only missing to know if they were supporters of Panathinaikos or Olympiakos ;)

Cherokees were always PAOK supporters and hooligans

[wvwvw]

According to the materials from Graham Hancock, east indians claimed their ancestors came from the East not west, that is Europe or Africa not Asia.

Of course they came from the east, they are obviously Asian looking. The Minoans came later and some mixed with them.

Evidence already exists showing a link between Greek and Japanese and the languages of Native America so it looks like the root language of all the Eurasian languages in the world is GREEK !!

Going back over 75,000 years you will also find a link between Greek and the languages of Africa since 1/3 of the people of ancient Greece were descend form the M35 linage which is a derivative of M1 which is the main linage of North-East Africa.

[johen]

Cherokees Spoke Greek and Came from East Mediterranean

yamna r1b burial:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Yamna_culture_tomb.jpg

cherokee 47% of r1b burial
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Dpi52Th2Ha8/UVnj7iimqBI/AAAAAAAALHI/wdTkQ6us6BE/s1600/Cherokee-burial-desecrated.jpg

Tocharian is the oldest IndoEuropean Language. some peoples said that the torcharian is similar to north american Indian language, even if linguists do not accept that. However, it is important they are similar.


Reine: Native American languages contain many Greek words like Potamos and Igloo (from Greek Oikos)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Indo-European_isoglosses.png

[DarknessWin]

Of course they came from the east, they are obviously Asian looking. The Minoans came later and some mixed with them.

Evidence already exists showing a link between Greek and Japanese and the languages of Native America so it looks like the root language of all the Eurasian languages in the world is GREEK !!

Going back over 75,000 years you will also find a link between Greek and the languages of Africa since 1/3 of the people of ancient Greece were descend form the M35 linage which is a derivative of M1 which is the main linage of North-East Africa.


Why you voting me down?? Shiptarians discovered America, accept it

[wvwvw]

The Minoans spoke proto-Greek, while the Mycenaean's were M173 hunter gather that came to the Balkans in 5000 BC from Iberia and merged with the indigenous M172 and M35 agricultural lineages. Together they formed the Myceanean civilization. The ruling elite were E and J2. They did not destroy the Hellads (as is the correct name of Minoans) but they kept in contact for a long time. Out of the merging of Basque (non IE) and Minoan Greek (IE) the Greek language was born.

[wvwvw]

"To Charian" in Greek means "The Carians".

Herodotus also says that the Carians were used as mercenaries by king Minos of Crete and that was the land from which they originated.

According to Herodotus the Carians sent out massive numbers of colonists from Asia-Minor 18 years after the famine caused by the Thera Eruption in 1628 BC which is the basis of the story of the Deukalian flood.

[Hexachordia]

Of course they came from the east, they are obviously mongoloid. The Minoans were later and some mixed with them.

Evidence already exists showing a link between Greek and Japanese and the languages of Native America so it looks like the root language of all the Eurasian languages in the world is GREEK !!

Going back over 75,000 years you will also find a link between Greek and the languages of Africa since 1/3 of the people of ancient Greece were descend form the M35 linage which is a derivative of M1 which is the main linage of North-East Africa.

Japanese culture is highly unique, its origin is still shrouded in myth and mystery, according to historical records, Japan had been a full monarchy since Han dynasty(200BC-20AD), and had sent a ambassador to the Han dynasty and receiveD a golden seal from the emperor Guangwu(5BC-57AD) which is still extent and kept in national japanese museum. Japanese linguists did find similarity of Japanese language to Tamil language, several important cognates and syntaxes are almost identical. You can google Susumu Ohno. He is the linguist that studies this connection. As for the greek connection, you can find it through this established connection by professor Ohno. Greek culture is the starting point of the mainstream western culture, while indo-aryan culture is more local and static, it is also interesting that Alexander the Great did not invade China but India, probably the two knew about each other.

[ChristinaLadyBug]

That subject has been open for debate for many years. I tend to believe the Chinese did make it before Columbus, but I have read many books and articles with opposing view points on the subject. Historians and archaeologist will likely be debating this for all eternity.

[Danaan]

Among Portuguese teens and young adults when you had to do a search for your school project you usually searched on books, but now everything is more easy with the Internet, so when many students search something in the web for any issue that they want to work on, for their school project they always found Brazilian websites before more credible ones.

It's not that we have nothing against Brazilian sites, but given that most of them are just spam, pseudo-science and most of the times with a dubious Portuguese, many people associate many websites ending in .br as a fraud.

It's kinda like finding out that Raine posted a post about a history/science related thread. You know it's going to be BS, fraud, and blatant troll.

Raine is doing more harm than good but not everything she says is exactly wrong. For example Minos couldn't have been anything other than Greek, imo.

The term 'Minoan' shouldn't have been used to describe a culture which starts around c. 3650 BC (the prepalatial Cretan culture).

The palatial civilization and the Cretan thalassocracy start around 1900 BC.

The following expert from Thucydides is useful.

There is also another circumstance that contributes not a little to my conviction of the weakness of ancient times. Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name; on the contrary, before the time of Hellen, son of Deucalion, no such appellation existed, but the country went by the names of the different tribes, in particular of the Pelasgian. It was not till Hellen and his sons grew strong in Phthiotis, and were invited as allies into the other cities, that one by one they gradually acquired from the connection the name of Hellenes; though a long time elapsed before that name could fasten itself upon all. The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans. He does not even use the term barbarian, probably because the Hellenes had not yet been marked off from the rest of the world by one distinctive appellation. It appears therefore that the several Hellenic communities, comprising not only those who first acquired the name, city by city, as they came to understand each other, but also those who assumed it afterwards as the name of the whole people, were before the Trojan war prevented by their want of strength and the absence of mutual intercourse from displaying any collective action.

Indeed, they could not unite for this expedition till they had gained increased familiarity with the sea. And the first person known to us by tradition as having established a navy is Minos. He made himself master of what is now called the Hellenic sea, and ruled over the Cyclades, into most of which he sent the first colonies, expelling the Carians and appointing his own sons governors; and thus did his best to put down piracy in those waters, a necessary step to secure the revenues for his own use.


The Cycladic civilization could have been Carian. But the palatial 'Minoan' already had at least an Hellenic element. Archaeologists in the past couldn't accept it because they placed the arrival of the Hellenes to Hellas long after 2000 BC.

Concerning Americas, I don't care.

[Hexachordia]

That subject has been open for debate for many years. I tend to believe the Chinese did make it before Columbus, but I have read many books and articles with opposing view points on the subject. Historians and archaeologist will likely be debating this for all eternity.

Ancient minoans and phoenicians were also seafaring people, navigation was a common feat among all major cultures.

[wvwvw]

Raine is doing more harm than good but not everything she says is exactly wrong. For example Minos couldn't have been anything other than Greek, imo.

The term 'Minoan' shouldn't have been used to describe a culture which starts around c. 3650 BC (the prepalatial Cretan culture).

The palatial civilization and the Cretan thalassocracy start around 1900 BC.

The following expert from Thucydides is useful.


The Cycladic civilization could have been Carian. But the palatial 'Minoan' already had at least an Hellenic element. Archaeologists in the past couldn't accept it because they placed the arrival of the Hellenes to Hellas long after 2000 BC.

Concerning Americas, I don't care.

The Carians do not predate the indigenous Greeks. The Minoans are indigenous to Greece for at least 9,000 years. The Greek language evolved in Greek, as all evidence show.

The Cycladic Aegean civilization was Greek.

Europe's first advanced civilisation was local in origin and not imported from elsewhere, a study says.

The authors therefore conclude that the Minoan civilisation was a local development, originated by inhabitants who probably reached the island around 9,000 years ago, in Neolithic times.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821

[Mikula]

Cherokees were always PAOK supporters and hooligans

Cherokees like eagle
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/88/6b/fe886ba3f05557a6318f334c83dcf245.jpg

They had to be supporters of AEK
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/New_updated_emblem_of_AEK_Athens.jpg

[RMuller]

Cherokees like eagle
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/88/6b/fe886ba3f05557a6318f334c83dcf245.jpg

They had to be supporters of AEK
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/New_updated_emblem_of_AEK_Athens.jpg

Eagles are important to many Native Americans.

The Mexican Flag
The coat of arms is derived from an Aztec legend that their gods told them to build a city where they spot an eagle on a nopal "Cactus" eating a serpent, which is now Mexico City.

https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/question/aq/1400px-788px/type-eagle-mexican-flag_134e0c20be311f45.jpg?domain=cx.aos.ask.com

[stellastel]

Probably, they is so smart.