Are Caucasus peoples European? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Hadouken

11-05-2016, 01:54 PM

So who else is West Asian, other than Turks?

actually turks dont seem to see themselves as west asian and they are rather central asian + anatolian so let them aside because they are somewhat a special case . same goes to a certain extent for azeris

there are 2 categories of west asian make up : the "purest" west asians in a caucasus sense are Georgians/Abkhazians and in a (east) Mediterranean sense it is the Druze people

other west asians are Armenians , Assyrians , Kurds , Levantine Arabs , with Iran it is more complicated

Middle Easterners are Arabians where you find the "Red Sea" element in high amounts and the "west asian" element in lesser amounts . so Middle Easterners are bacially Saudis , Qataris , Kuwaitis , Jordanians (they have more west asian elements than the other middle easterners) , south Iraqis , Yemenis , Oman etc.

Armenians/Assyrians/Kurds/Levantines have some middle eastern and/or southcentral asian influences which for example Georgians have only little . for example Lebanese are East Med variant west asians but they have middle eastern pull because of elevated red sea and some african etc . and Kurds for example you could "modelize" as something like 50% Georgian 30% Druze 20% AfghanPashtun or Baloch (approx.)

Norka

11-05-2016, 01:55 PM

Caucasians are not Europeans they are Caucasians.

crazyladybutterfly

11-05-2016, 01:56 PM

Caucasians are not Europeans they are Caucasians.

but some identify as european .. like the georgians

TheForeigner

11-05-2016, 01:56 PM

Azeris are Turkic and are also found in northwestern Iran. They belong with the Muslim Turkic and Iranian peoples.

magyar_lány

11-05-2016, 01:57 PM

No, they aren't.

ALL

11-05-2016, 02:02 PM

Caucasus are almost exclusively A1/A2+/- and O+/-.
A1/A2+/- Mostly found in Northern Europe, A1/A2rh+ and rh- Scandinavia and Saamis's for example. Have the same type. B type is rare in some European groups.

Root

11-05-2016, 02:07 PM

We are not europeans neither asians. We are Caucasians, children of Kavkaz

LoLeL

11-05-2016, 02:10 PM

No, just Caucasian/Kavkazian.

Pahli

11-05-2016, 02:11 PM

Caucasuans, especially North Caucasians have some European blood (EHG), but don't cluster with Europe, they are closer to West Asian groups, North and West of the Zagros Mountains.

LoLeL

11-05-2016, 02:14 PM

Caucasuans, especially North Caucasians have some European blood (EHG), but don't cluster with Europe, they are closer to West Asian groups, North and West of the Zagros Mountains.

East of Zagros mountains is Mongolian/slant-eyed land? :laugh:

Pahli

11-05-2016, 02:17 PM

East of Zagros mountains is Mongolian/slant-eyed land? :laugh:

Forgot to add East of Zagros as well, but People in East Turkey and some parts of Central Turkey still cluster with Caucasian ethnicities.

Imamudin

01-08-2017, 09:29 PM

yes culturally they are. even chechens

This makes no sense. The patriarchal clan-based ancient warrior culture of Chechens predates the European culture for thousands of years. We pretty much do not share anything with anyone living western of the Don river, apart from a few things that Russians/Cossacks have copied from us - balalaika, papakha, dresses, dances, dishes,etc.

Melki

01-08-2017, 10:12 PM

I first thought it was another of these threads created by Petros. :biggrin:

Europe is not really a continent. Anyway, I voted yes, because the 3 Transcaucasian countries:

-are State members of the Council of Europe
-are State members of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE)
-signed the Adapted Conventional Armed Forces in Europe Treaty
-are members of European international sports federations (UEFA, EAA etc...)
-are considered part of Europe by the International Civil Aviation Organization
-take part to the Eurovision song contest

etc...etc...etc...

Odin

05-30-2018, 12:10 AM

Nope.

Schüreck

05-31-2018, 04:58 PM

For me, they are a mix of Asians and Europeans (when it comes to culture), so they can be both...

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 05:15 PM

Yep. They are Southeastern European.

Rumata

05-31-2018, 05:22 PM

No. They are Caucasian. But some Georgians can be in transition, considering forum members.

Teutone

05-31-2018, 05:35 PM

No this is my Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/Europe_polar_stereographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary .svg/700px-Europe_polar_stereographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary .svg.png

Jana

05-31-2018, 05:40 PM

Yep. They are Southeastern European.

Tachnically Dagestan Chechenya etc are extreme southeast of Europe, yet Georgia is only partially European and Armenia and Azerbaijan are completely outside of Europe geographically.
But even these European parts of Russian Federation in north Caucasian plain aren't considered really European by rest of us.

Southeast Europeans are Greeks, Albanians, southern Slavs and Romanians, not North Caucasians. They are genetically far from any kind of Europeans , and culturally foreign too (most European like would be Georgia rather than north Caucasus)

They are more like north-west Asians than European.

Megadorian

05-31-2018, 05:40 PM

Of course they are

Cool Story Bro

05-31-2018, 05:42 PM

They are Eurasian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_(mixed_ancestry))

Jana

05-31-2018, 05:42 PM

Of course they are

Greeks consider them European ? Interesting.

Megadorian

05-31-2018, 05:52 PM

Greeks consider them European ? Interesting.

It's not what greeks consider, it's what it is the truth

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 05:55 PM

Tachnically Dagestan Chechenya etc are extreme southeast of Europe, yet Georgia is only partially European and Armenia and Azerbaijan are completely outside of Europe geographically.
But even these European parts of Russian Federation in north Caucasian plain aren't considered really European by rest of us.

Southeast Europeans are Greeks, Albanians, southern Slavs and Romanians, not North Caucasians. They are genetically far from any kind of Europeans , and culturally foreign too (most European like would be Georgia rather than north Caucasus)

They are more like north-west Asians than European.

I disagree. I think who is and isn't "European" is a bit arbitrary - it is a man-made continent after all, with artificial borders that weren't even heavily agreed upon until the 19th century. For the most part Kavkazians like Georgians, Chechens, etc look European, and Armenians and Azeris almost look European. I'd even say that Chechens and Georgians look more European than Sicilians, Jews, and Maltese people do. Their culture isn't anymore West Asian than Albanian culture is. In terms of genetics, they may not cluster with any other group that is noted popularly as "European," but the same can be said for Jews and Sicilians, who almost don't even cluster with Europeans at all, and cluster with West Asians more than they do with 95-97% of Europeans. South Italians even often cluster closer to Gulf Arabs than they do to even the French. If people like South Italians, Jews, the Maltese, Cypriots, and even Pontic Greeks (who descend from Armenians themselves) are often popularly referred to as being "European," then Kavkazians can be, too. There wasn't even much question about Chechens, Ossetians, and Circassians being European until the unveiling of their genetic clustering. Their cultures are not similar to West Asian culture at all.

That being said, I do understand where you come from. You have a European point of view, while I have an American point of view lol.

Kelmendasi

05-31-2018, 06:10 PM

I disagree. I think who is and isn't "European" is a bit arbitrary - it is a man-made continent after all, with artificial borders that weren't even heavily agreed upon until the 19th century. For the most part Kavkazians like Georgians, Chechens, etc look European, and Armenians and Azeris almost look European. I'd even say that Chechens and Georgians look more European than Sicilians, Jews, and Maltese people do. Their culture isn't anymore West Asian than Albanian culture is. In terms of genetics, they may not cluster with any other group that is noted popularly as "European," but the same can be said for Jews and Sicilians, who almost don't even cluster with Europeans at all, and cluster with West Asians more than they do with 95-97% of Europeans. South Italians even often cluster closer to Gulf Arabs than they do to even the French. If people like South Italians, Jews, the Maltese, Cypriots, and even Pontic Greeks (who descend from Armenians themselves) are often popularly referred to as being "European," then Kavkazians can be, too. There wasn't even much question about Chechens, Ossetians, and Circassians being European until the unveiling of their genetic clustering. Their cultures are not similar to West Asian culture at all.

That being said, I do understand where you come from. You have a European point of view, while I have an American point of view lol.
This part I don't understand? Their cultures are surely more West Asian than any European culture considering how they are in west Asia. As for west Asian influence in Albanian it is at similar levels as the rest of the Balkans and is mainly from Islam although Islam isn't really strong in Albania in terms of influence whilst the Caucasus especially the region of Dagestan is really influenced by Islam and has Iranian influence.

Jana

05-31-2018, 06:42 PM

I disagree. I think who is and isn't "European" is a bit arbitrary - it is a man-made continent after all, with artificial borders that weren't even heavily agreed upon until the 19th century. For the most part Kavkazians like Georgians, Chechens, etc look European, and Armenians and Azeris almost look European. I'd even say that Chechens and Georgians look more European than Sicilians, Jews, and Maltese people do. Their culture isn't anymore West Asian than Albanian culture is. In terms of genetics, they may not cluster with any other group that is noted popularly as "European," but the same can be said for Jews and Sicilians, who almost don't even cluster with Europeans at all, and cluster with West Asians more than they do with 95-97% of Europeans. South Italians even often cluster closer to Gulf Arabs than they do to even the French. If people like South Italians, Jews, the Maltese, Cypriots, and even Pontic Greeks (who descend from Armenians themselves) are often popularly referred to as being "European," then Kavkazians can be, too. There wasn't even much question about Chechens, Ossetians, and Circassians being European until the unveiling of their genetic clustering. Their cultures are not similar to West Asian culture at all.

That being said, I do understand where you come from. You have a European point of view, while I have an American point of view lol.

South Italians closer to Gulf Arabs than to French ? Are you serious ? :yuck: Pontic Greeks aren't European...

Sicilians are as European as Dutch or Swedes are. I don't know what is going on on this forum, they are not some borderline Europeans but absolutely, 100% European and as such considered by 99% of people you may ask.

Gracile med is as European as nordic is. Caucasian people have no shared history/culture with Europeans at all, or extremely minimal neither they think of themself as European. Only some Georgians do as far as I know.

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 07:09 PM

South Italians closer to Gulf Arabs than to French ? Are you serious ? :yuck: Pontic Greeks aren't European...

Sicilians are as European as Dutch or Swedes are. I don't know what is going on on this forum, they are not some borderline Europeans but absolutely, 100% European and as such considered by 99% of people you may ask.

Gracile med is as European as nordic is. Caucasian people have no shared history/culture with Europeans at all, or extremely minimal neither they think of themself as European. Only some Georgians do as far as I know.

What do you mean Caucasian people have no shared history with European people? Armenians have a much more extensive history with Greeks than 80% of Europeans do. In fact, much of Greece was influenced by West Asia and North Africa historically - and they in turn influenced the rest of Europe.

Europe is not this distinct isolated entity that it is portrayed as (and neither are the other "continents"). There is nothing 100% unique to Europe that isn't shared with parts of Asia or Africa. It would be nonsensical to imply that Sicilians share more with Finns, Swedes, Dutch, and the Irish than they do with the Lebanese or even Gulf Arabs.

But anyways, the point isn't that Sicilians are Arabs. They are 100% European by modern definitions of that term. They are just as European as a a Finn or a Swede is, by virtue of culture and geography. However, they have their share of history and ancestry with non-Europeans. Sicilians themselves acknowledge this and are proud of it. The point is simply that if a Sicilian can be European, so can a Georgian and Chechen. Even many Azeris consider themselves to be European.

As far as the French vs. Gulf Arab thing, that is the impression I am getting from GEDmatch results posted by Sikeliot (although I am well aware that admixture isn't everything. IBD sharing may reveal the opposite, but I have only seen Sicilians on GEDmatch).

Jana

05-31-2018, 07:14 PM

What do you mean Caucasian people have no shared history with European people? Armenians have a much more extensive history with Greeks than 80% of Europeans do. In fact, much of Greece was influenced by West Asia and North Africa historically - and they in turn influenced the rest of Europe.

Europe is not this distinct isolated entity that it is portrayed as (and neither are the other "continents"). There is nothing 100% unique to Europe that isn't shared with parts of Asia or Africa. It would be nonsensical to imply that Sicilians share more with Finns, Swedes, Dutch, and the Irish than they do with the Lebanese or even Gulf Arabs.

But anyways, the point isn't that Sicilians are Arabs. They are 100% European by modern definitions of that term. They are just as European as a a Finn or a Swede is, by virtue of culture and geography. However, they have their share of history and ancestry with non-Europeans. Sicilians themselves acknowledge this and are proud of it. The point is simply that if a Sicilian can be European, so can a Georgian and Chechen. Even many Azeris consider themselves to be European.

As far as the French vs. Gulf Arab thing, that is the impression I am getting from GEDmatch results posted by Sikeliot (although I am well aware that admixture isn't everything. IBD sharing may reveal the opposite, but I have only seen Sicilians on GEDmatch).

Sicilian and Chechen isn't good comparison. Better is Sicilian with Russian.

Both European influenced by non Europeans, while Chechens played no part in European history at all!

Btw, idea of Europe isn't classical Greek or Roman, but Frankish and it has medieval roots.

There are many things that are typical for Europe and no one else. I wouldn't know where to start the count....

:)

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 08:53 PM

Sicilian and Chechen isn't good comparison. Better is Sicilian with Russian.

Both European influenced by non Europeans, while Chechens played no part in European history at all!

Btw, idea of Europe isn't classical Greek or Roman, but Frankish and it has medieval roots.

There are many things that are typical for Europe and no one else. I wouldn't know where to start the count....

:)

Chechens are starting to become an integral part of Russian society. Russians and Sicilians couldn't be more different. I'm sure a Russian would have more to identity with Chechens than with Sicilians.

There is nothing unique to ALL of Europe that isn't unique to anywhere else. Not any genetic component, not any type of climate, not any dance or music, or any phenotype. There are things unique to certain parts of Europe though, yes.

The idea of a modern day concept of "Europe" didn't even exist until the 19th century, so there is barely any history that all Europeans share prior to that.

Jana

05-31-2018, 09:12 PM

Chechens are starting to become an integral part of Russian society. Russians and Sicilians couldn't be more different. I'm sure a Russian would have more to identity with Chechens than with Sicilians.

There is nothing unique to ALL of Europe that isn't unique to anywhere else. Not any genetic component, not any type of climate, not any dance or music, or any phenotype. There are things unique to certain parts of Europe though, yes.

The idea of a modern day concept of "Europe" didn't even exist until the 19th century, so there is barely any history that all Europeans share prior to that.

You are laughable.

I didn't say Sicilians are similar to Russians, I said they have comparable non-European influences.

Chechens are 0% European and they don't want to be European either. Integrated in Russia ? This is news to me...

Ofcourse Europe has many unique things, starting from medieval period and romanesque, gothic, reinaissance, baroqe, rococo, secession etc.

No shared history ? :picard1:

Read about Holy Roman Empire for a start. You sound ignorant as hell!

Europe has extremely intermingled history with very few exceptions.

Porn Master

05-31-2018, 09:25 PM

there are Caucasus members on TA and they are extremely proud what they are, they feel shame when someone calls them european. I'm serious

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 09:40 PM

You are laughable.

I didn't say Sicilians are similar to Russians, I said they have comparable non-European influences.

Chechens are 0% European and they don't want to be European either. Integrated in Russia ? This is news to me...

Ofcourse Europe has many unique things, starting from medieval period and romanesque, gothic, reinaissance, baroqe, rococo, secession etc.

No shared history ? :picard1:

Read about Holy Roman Empire for a start. You sound ignorant as hell!

Europe has extremely intermingled history with very few exceptions.

A lot of the "shared history" in the Roman Empire is very brutal and not something to celebrate, though. I suggest reading a 1997 book called The Myth of Continents: A Critique of Metageography. It's a book written by historian-geographers and it will really make you question the way you think.

Kelmendasi

05-31-2018, 09:45 PM

A lot of the "shared history" in the Roman Empire is very brutal and not something to celebrate, though. I suggest reading a 1997 book called The Myth of Continents: A Critique of Metageography. It's a book written by historian-geographers and it will really make you question the way you think.
To be fair, Europeans share more ancestors with each other than most other peoples do and so Europeans are closest to each other. Plus the idea of Europe was something which connected Europeans together although I'm not sure how true this is today.

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 10:11 PM

To be fair, Europeans share more ancestors with each other than most other peoples do and so Europeans are closest to each other. Plus the idea of Europe was something which connected Europeans together although I'm not sure how true this is today.

Native Americans and certain groups of Pacific Islanders are genetically more homogeneous than Europeans. And most of the ancestors Europeans share with each other are shared with some Africans and Asians, too.

I am not saying that Europeans should all give up their modern day identities as Europeans. I just wish "European" meant more than a label that is used primarily for xenophobic and racist agendas. The concept of "Europe" was helpful at one point, but right now it's a shitfest and only hurts people. If you look at "European Pride" pages, majority of them tout racist and xenophobic things against refugees, so it is natural for people to get angry and point out the flaws in "European" identity when they do such.

Western Europeans have created this global caste system where they make themselves and other "Europeans" seem like this highly advanced and distinctive species, and place "everyone else" at the bottom. When you are subjected to hearing about how apparently great and "superior" Europe and Europeans are every single day since the day you could comprehend language, it is natural to recognize the major flaws in European identity. It is natural to point out the flaws of "Europe" when "Europe" has been telling you that ancient Asian and African cultures that largely influenced it are "inferior" and "different from them." All the European identity has done is alienate other human beings and make them suffer. Europeans themselves are suffering, too. Just look at the economy of Greece.

I mean for crying out loud, Europeans descend from farmers who came from the Middle East and some descend from Hunter Gatherers who came from the Caucasus. Clearly these ancestors has no intention of creating the concept of "Europe."

Jana

05-31-2018, 10:16 PM

Native Americans and certain groups of Pacific Islanders are genetically more homogeneous than Europeans. And most of the ancestors Europeans share with each other are shared with some Africans and Asians, too.

I am not saying that Europeans should all give up their modern day identities as Europeans. I just wish "European" meant more than a label that is used primarily for xenophobic and racist agendas. The concept of "Europe" was helpful at one point, but right now it's a shitfest and only hurts people. If you look at "European Pride" pages, majority of them tout racist and xenophobic things against refugees, so it is natural for people to get angry and point out the flaws in "European" identity when they do such.

Western Europeans have created this global caste system where they make themselves and other "Europeans" seem like this highly advanced and distinctive species, and place "everyone else" at the bottom. When you are subjected to hearing about how apparently great and "superior" Europe and Europeans are every single day since the day you could comprehend language, it is natural to recognize the major flaws in European identity. It is natural to point out the flaws of "Europe" when "Europe" has been telling you that ancient Asian and African cultures that largely influenced it are "inferior" and "different from them." All the European identity has done is alienate other human beings and make them suffer. Europeans themselves are suffering, too. Just look at the economy of Greece.

I mean for crying out loud, Europeans descend from farmers who came from the Middle East and some descend from Hunter Gatherers who came from the Caucasus. Clearly these ancestors has no intention of creating the concept of "Europe."

Libaral piss.

I don't feel superior at all neither most Europeans do, we are just Europeans and there is European history and identity that we belong to.

That's all.

Kelmendasi

05-31-2018, 10:22 PM

Native Americans and certain groups of Pacific Islanders are genetically more homogeneous than Europeans. And most of the ancestors Europeans share with each other are shared with some Africans and Asians, too.

I am not saying that Europeans should all give up their modern day identities as Europeans. I just wish "European" meant more than a label that is used primarily for xenophobic and racist agendas. The concept of "Europe" was helpful at one point, but right now it's a shitfest and only hurts people. If you look at "European Pride" pages, majority of them tout racist and xenophobic things against refugees, so it is natural for people to get angry and point out the flaws in "European" identity when they do such.

Western Europeans have created this global caste system where they make themselves and other "Europeans" seem like this highly advanced and distinctive species, and place "everyone else" at the bottom. When you are subjected to hearing about how apparently great and "superior" Europe and Europeans are every single day since the day you could comprehend language, it is natural to recognize the major flaws in European identity. It is natural to point out the flaws of "Europe" when "Europe" has been telling you that ancient Asian and African cultures that largely influenced it are "inferior" and "different from them." All the European identity has done is alienate other human beings and make them suffer. Europeans themselves are suffering, too. Just look at the economy of Greece.

I mean for crying out loud, Europeans descend from farmers who came from the Middle East and some descend from Hunter Gatherers who came from the Caucasus. Clearly these ancestors has no intention of creating the concept of "Europe."
Yh I do get what you mean. But Europeans do share things with each other and I feel as if being European should connect Europeans together but I don't think people should go extreme and place other groups of people below them just because they aren't European. Another thing which connects Europeans is the fact that every European ethnicity is made up of the same 3 components which are WHG, Steppe and EEF. But yeah I do agree that we are in fact made up of peoples that came from outside of Europe although I don't think that this should play a role in our identity

Wanderer

05-31-2018, 10:26 PM

But anyways, the point isn't that Sicilians are Arabs. They are 100% European by modern definitions of that term. They are just as European as a a Finn or a Swede is, by virtue of culture and geography. However, they have their share of history and ancestry with non-Europeans. Sicilians themselves acknowledge this and are proud of it.Not really. As a matter of fact, the Moors were systematically expelled from Sicily. This is something worthy of celebration, much like the Reconquista of the Iberian peninsula. Sicilian are fundamentally a Greco-Italic people who share far more in common with other Greeks and Italics than with any non-European. This is just the reality, which is why most Sicilians would be hostile to your point of view on this. You can talk about Neolithic connections or superficial phenotypic/genetic similarities with the peoples of the Levant, but these people do not share a European culture or heritage with Italians. On that note, all the peoples we contemporarily call Europeans are far more imbued with Greco-Roman influences (e.g., language, writing, religion, etc.), so it makes infinitely more sense that Sicilians or other Italians would feel more of a connection to them than with non-Europeans.

Myanthropologies

05-31-2018, 10:26 PM

Yh I do get what you mean. But Europeans do share things with each other and I feel as if being European should connect Europeans together but I don't think people should go extreme and place other groups of people below them just because they aren't European. Another thing which connects Europeans is the fact that every European ethnicity is made up of the same 3 components which are WHG, Steppe and EEF. But yeah I do agree that we are in fact made up of peoples that came from outside of Europe although I don't think that this should play a role in our identity

That is all I ask of people to admit. Your identity is fine with me :)

user_

06-01-2018, 11:27 PM

Ofcourse Europe has many unique things, starting from medieval period and romanesque, gothic, reinaissance, baroqe, rococo, secession etc.

Tbilisi, Capital de Georgia
https://preview.ibb.co/etbfLy/0ed89c4aec09.jpg (https://ibb.co/eWAUDJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/i6S9DJ/1a1bcd889495.jpg (https://ibb.co/gfrrSd)
https://preview.ibb.co/gaD5nd/04.jpg (https://ibb.co/hFXbtJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/k635nd/04f565b5172d.jpg (https://ibb.co/nQwQnd)
https://preview.ibb.co/fyBrSd/9c7d550fc674.jpg (https://ibb.co/cPsbtJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/bOzpDJ/33a19f015a7c.jpg (https://ibb.co/jqWfLy)
https://preview.ibb.co/fFE0Ly/41a0392b76f7.jpg (https://ibb.co/mRbEfy)
https://preview.ibb.co/bwyS0y/60.jpg (https://ibb.co/mypZfy)
https://preview.ibb.co/mE2n0y/64.jpg (https://ibb.co/caKZfy)
https://preview.ibb.co/g7wrSd/70.jpg (https://ibb.co/j4P0Ly)
https://preview.ibb.co/c1nLLy/395bcfe1a960.jpg (https://ibb.co/iZJS0y)
https://image.ibb.co/c2dGtJ/0492de30_007f_4097_a49b_dee0ba0d4629.jpg (https://ibb.co/dfD5nd)
https://preview.ibb.co/hDbfLy/4407banner25.jpg (https://ibb.co/coWEfy)
https://preview.ibb.co/jO0knd/55971ea5441f.jpg (https://ibb.co/m3JGtJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/dPCy7d/233316149.jpg (https://ibb.co/iuGfLy)
https://preview.ibb.co/grZZfy/b303784f1957.jpg (https://ibb.co/eBG2YJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/mdqUDJ/ca3cb89084df.jpg (https://ibb.co/dAKd7d)
https://preview.ibb.co/do1fLy/David_Aghmashenebeli_3.jpg (https://ibb.co/kOFUDJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/ixQUDJ/David_Aghmashenebeli_111.jpg (https://ibb.co/dg40Ly)
https://preview.ibb.co/cf7btJ/nov.jpg (https://ibb.co/mRXn0y)

user_

06-01-2018, 11:29 PM

art and architecture from Georgian renaissance (11th to 13th centuries) is pretty Europeans as well.
https://preview.ibb.co/eh65Ly/800px_Damiane1.jpg (https://ibb.co/fFhefy)
https://preview.ibb.co/hwm0nd/2014_Kutaisi_Katedra_Bagrati_25.jpg (https://ibb.co/fOARSd)
https://preview.ibb.co/kkkt7d/maxresdefault.jpg (https://ibb.co/cHD20y)
https://preview.ibb.co/cB3fnd/mtskheta_sveticxoveli.jpg (https://ibb.co/nh2vLy)

Porn Master

06-01-2018, 11:44 PM

such buildings you can see in south america but it doesn't make south americans closer to europeans xD

Marmara

06-01-2018, 11:52 PM

Historically they had no contact with Europe, and i don't think an average Caucasian consider itself European or Caucasia as part of Europe.

user_

06-01-2018, 11:53 PM

Georgian art of 11-13 centuries.
Renaissance began in Georgia long before West Europe.
https://preview.ibb.co/b4wuDJ/0e3dceb06fe8.jpg (https://ibb.co/jeBi7d)
https://preview.ibb.co/eh65Ly/800px_Damiane1.jpg (https://ibb.co/fFhefy)
https://preview.ibb.co/mNzEDJ/1984_Ubissa_Annunciation_Damiane_1.jpg (https://ibb.co/gamuDJ)
https://preview.ibb.co/hthqnd/1984_Ubissa_Entryinto_Jerusalem.jpg (https://ibb.co/fCOKfy)
https://preview.ibb.co/m86uDJ/1984_Ubissa_Last_Supper.jpg (https://ibb.co/c0FX0y)
https://image.ibb.co/gmegtJ/1984_Ubissa_Nativity_1.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://image.ibb.co/cwhO7d/Damiane_The_Annunciation.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://image.ibb.co/goxZDJ/post_36_1144153790.jpg (https://ibb.co/cCvbSd)
https://image.ibb.co/etzQLy/post_36_1146925218.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://preview.ibb.co/fKQbSd/Ubisa_monastery_fersco_Damiane_14th_century.jpg (https://ibb.co/mVnqnd)

kleenex

06-01-2018, 11:55 PM

kleenex

06-01-2018, 11:57 PM

user_

06-01-2018, 11:58 PM

Historically they had no contact with Europe, and i don't think an average Caucasian consider itself European or Caucasia as part of Europe.

Actually Caucasus was part of Byzantine civilization, which for many centuries was epicenter of European civilization itself.

Jana

06-01-2018, 11:58 PM

Looks amazing :D
As i Said i have no issue to accept Georgians as Europan, them are exception in this!

Decius

06-01-2018, 11:59 PM

More European and Europid than Europeans frome Europe.

Wrong

Marmara

06-02-2018, 12:00 AM

Actually Caucasus was part of Byzantine civilization, which for many centuries was epicenter of European civilization itself.

Then Middle East and North Africa is also European.

black hole

06-02-2018, 12:04 AM

Europe has it's own regional, cultural, historical and genetic identity. The Caucasus likewise has it's own unique identify. There may be some similarities (particularly in a cultural sense) but there are greater distinctions. Why is contention even necessary?

It is a Georgian OWD. South Caucasus people have more identical crisis than North Caucasus peoples, North Caucasus people are extremely racists and nationalists, very patriotic and they are proud of their ancestry, culture and history, and they do not like to be considered as westerners neither easterners. I am the expert on Caucasus region, so I know what I am talking about. North Caucasus is archaic and tribal. Only Armenians can be exception in South Caucasus, but majority of South Caucasians have a maniacal obsession with the west.

user_

06-02-2018, 12:07 AM

Just be proud of your regions' accomplishments without having to compare and/or critique.

There is two world in our region, European Christian where we think we belong, and Asian Islamic where we think we do not belong. So we have to choose.
All history of Georgia after Constantinople fall is fight not to be assimilated by islamic which surrounded us and reconnect with west.
Being European for Georgian is not question being brown or white, it question of death and life.

kleenex

06-02-2018, 12:09 AM

It is a Georgian OWD. South Caucasus people have more identical crisis than North Caucasus peoples, North Caucasus people are extremely racists and nationalists, very patriotic and they are proud of their ancestry, culture and history, and they do not like to be considered as westerners neither easterners. I am the expert on Caucasus region, so I know what I am talking about. North Caucasus is archaic and tribal. Only Armenians can be exception in South Caucasus, but majority of South Caucasians have a maniacal obsession with the west.

Ok I've noticed that Arnenians (in the US) are pretty comfortable with their ethnic identity. I don't really know any Georgians.

Jana

06-02-2018, 08:38 AM

Ok I've noticed that Arnenians (in the US) are pretty comfortable with their ethnic identity. I don't really know any Georgians.

Armenians and Georgians aren't equally European like. Armenians don't feel European, they are Anatolian people with ties to Russia and Iran and they are oriental orthodox like other MENA people.

Georgians are anti-Russian, pro-western and they are eastern orthodox Christians like other Europeans. Also their country is at least partially in Europe unlike Armenia.

renaissance12

06-02-2018, 08:57 AM

Just be proud of your regions' accomplishments without having to compare and/or critique.

Incredible.. and extraordinary frescos..... It is a huge surprise to me..to know that there is such art outside Italy...:thumb001:

Rumata

06-02-2018, 09:10 AM

In another thread user_ said that North Caucasians should be united only by 'the true Caucasian power' - Georgia. But here he looks as European as it gets, lol.

Imo, what differs Armenians from Georgians the most. The first aren't Caucasian.

user_

06-02-2018, 10:14 AM

In another thread user_ said that North Caucasians should be united only by 'the true Caucasian power' - Georgia. But here he looks as European as it gets, lol.

I think Georgia and North Caucasus is sub region of Europe. Georgia looks more euro because its christian, it had more contacts with Roman Empire, Georgia was one of the birthplaces of European renaissance. If not islamisation of North Caucasus, they would be much closer to georgians.

Church in Karachaevo Cherkesya of X century, Georgian influence in N Caucasus was quite strong.
https://preview.ibb.co/f6RZxd/02.jpg (https://ibb.co/hnk53J)

brennus dux gallorum

06-02-2018, 10:17 AM

Pontian Greeks, who used to live in (or near) caucasus until 1923 are European

Wrong

06-02-2018, 06:42 PM

Caucasus is Europe.

Caucasus admix is inside all Europeans except for the non-Euro Sami.

Wrong

06-02-2018, 07:09 PM

I think Georgia and North Caucasus is sub region of Europe. Georgia looks more euro because its christian, it had more contacts with Roman Empire, Georgia was one of the birthplaces of European renaissance. If not islamisation of North Caucasus, they would be much closer to georgians.

Church in Karachaevo Cherkesya of X century, Georgian influence in N Caucasus was quite strong.
https://preview.ibb.co/f6RZxd/02.jpg (https://ibb.co/hnk53J)
If Caucasus is not European by Anglo-Saxon standards, then neither is Balkans. This looks just like an Albanian scenery.

Kelmendasi

06-02-2018, 07:14 PM

I think the northern Caucasus is part of Europe but the southern Caucasus is clearly part of Asia

Kelmendasi

06-02-2018, 07:18 PM

Pontian Greeks, who used to live in (or near) caucasus until 1923 are European
That's not a good comparison, they have origins in mainland Greece(cultural/identity). Actual Caucasians are Dagestani peoples, Georgians etc

Marmara

06-02-2018, 07:40 PM

The most European Georgian man among all Caucasians.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbCTPAZiDcmCylQQ3AloFIHXUYZkwLK gt1tfZ2dMh_UCJ7mNSMZruCaR9J

Rumata

06-02-2018, 08:44 PM

I think Georgia and North Caucasus is sub region of Europe.

Religions aside, Caucasus is tribal, conservative and intolerant which aren't exactly European characteristics.

Also, there haven't been many cultural ties between Europe and Caucasus if you disregard Christianity, which used to be the religion of Circassians too, but I doubt it influenced them deeply.

Wrong

06-02-2018, 08:51 PM

Religions aside, Caucasus is tribal, conservative and intolerant which aren't exactly European characteristics.
The best blueprint for European preservation + Feudalism.

North Caucas, Gheg Tribals, Greek Maniots.. The best preserved people in Europe.

gıulıoımpa

06-02-2018, 08:55 PM

Some yes
others no

Yaglakar

06-02-2018, 09:03 PM

Different users play different cards to be associated with European members here. Choose your one. :) "Christianity card", "genetics card", "flatter card".

Böri

06-02-2018, 09:09 PM

Only Ossetians, Georgians and parts of Abkhazians etc. are Orthodox. Most are Muslim.

North Caucasians are Europoid by racial outlook while same can't be told for Transcaucasians who show Armenoid heavy influences. Ossetians who are Iranic also show Persian-like dark features among north Caucasians.

Chechens, Lezgins, Circassians etc show Europoid influences.

Culturally there is no European (Western) culture in the region since both Orthodoxy and Islam aren't part of what made Europe truly Europe.

Yaglakar

06-02-2018, 09:14 PM

1/10th Circassian, what about you? Does your phenotype show Europoid influences? or do you even speak Adyghe language, given your participation in Circassian related threads? or do you just look at artbook pictures of kurgans and gain knowledge? xD

Rumata

06-02-2018, 09:16 PM

Yaglakar, fuck off. No one cares about your stupid lies of a butthurt troll.

Jana

06-02-2018, 09:30 PM

Marmara

06-02-2018, 10:02 PM

Chechens look less European than Georgians do, despite they are lighter than them. I see steppe/eurasian admix in Chechens and other North Caucasians which is lacking in Georgians.

I don't think you've met enough of them to make this conclusion.

Circassians do have some turanid admixture, i don't think that's true for Chechens. If you mean the Mena look it's the Mtebid admixture which exist throughout Caucasia.

Wrong

06-02-2018, 10:06 PM

Jana

06-02-2018, 10:17 PM

I don't think you've met enough of them to make this conclusion.

Circassians do have some turanid admixture, i don't think that's true for Chechens. If you mean the Mena look it's the Mtebid admixture which exist throughout Caucasia.

There was some threads about groups pics of Chechens and Georgians, I tought Georgians could fit better in East Balkans (some Romanian members saw that too) while Chechens had highly distinctive, unique features.

black hole

06-02-2018, 10:26 PM

I recommend you all to visit North Ossetia and Chechnya, and then Georgia, and not sitting here posting some cherry picking pictures. Georgians look more MENA while North Caucasians look more Siberian.

Böri

06-02-2018, 10:28 PM

Circassians can look like Turks sometimes. However among them, that changes from one tribe to the other. Some Circassian tribes are like 0% Siberian, while individuals from other Circassian tribes can hit until 8-10%. Circassians (incl. their language) has some Turkic influence dating back Khazar Khaganate era (7th century).
Chechens lack all Turkic like admixtures. They might have some Transcaucasian influences though.

Both Chechens and Circassians look (and genetically are) a lot more European than Georgians. Actually even the light Georgians from Western Georgia, called Guria (Guria being historically Turkish Georgia, zone occupied by Ottomans) can show Armenoid features like their noses or their huge eyes standing outside of eye compartiment.

Ossetians are Orthodox and Iranic. They do show, even northern Ossetians, some dark features seen among other Iranic peoples. Other nations from north Caucasus dont.

Marmara

06-02-2018, 10:29 PM

There was some threads about groups pics of Chechens and Georgians, I tought Georgians could fit better in East Balkans (some Romanian members saw that too) while Chechens had highly distinctive, unique features.

Maybe those pictures were of Chechen Jihadist. They look more distinct with beards + Jihadists include foreigners.

Georgian

http://www.discovergeorgia.ge/upload/1420965777_800x6001vvyh.png

Chechen

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5404593289_50f72feab2.jpg

Wrong

06-02-2018, 10:32 PM

Maybe those pictures were of Chechen Jihadist. They look more distinct with beards + Jihadists include foreigners.

Georgian

http://www.discovergeorgia.ge/upload/1420965777_800x6001vvyh.png

Chechen

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5404593289_50f72feab2.jpg
You have to be fair here, these pictures have far different lighting compared to one-another. The Chechen photo has a much higher brightness to it.

Jana

06-02-2018, 10:33 PM

Maybe those pictures were of Chechen Jihadist. They look more distinct with beards + Jihadists include foreigners.

Georgian

http://www.discovergeorgia.ge/upload/1420965777_800x6001vvyh.png

Chechen

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5404593289_50f72feab2.jpg

Chechens look more northern as expected, but more eastern too, imo.
Like this:

Georgians look more MENA while North Caucasians look more Siberian.

black hole

06-02-2018, 10:34 PM

Chechens are lighter and look more aggressive than Georgians

pictures from Balto-Slavica http://www.balto-slavica.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=866&page=1

user_

06-02-2018, 10:34 PM

Religions aside, Caucasus is tribal, conservative and intolerant which aren't exactly European characteristics.
Georgia is not tribal at all, not conservative and quite tolerant by eastern European standards.

Few days ago there were protests of young people in front of parliament, the reason was anti drug raids in Tbilisi night clubs, especially in gay friendly ones. For two days parliament building became the biggest night club in Georgia ))) cant imagine same level of freedom and tolerance in any post soviet country, except Baltic states.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbzd3MzqjnY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4LJVWS0dIs

So when you speak about tribal and conservative Caucasus, specify republics, cause Georgia is in a very heart of Caucas and not tribal at all.

Jana

06-02-2018, 10:34 PM

could somebody clarify which ethnic groups reside in North Dagestan ?

Stears Caucasian ancestry could be from there if we can trust K36 report.

Marmara

06-02-2018, 10:36 PM

You have to be fair here, these pictures have far different lighting compared to one-another. The Chechen photo has a much higher brightness to it.

Are these better?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQryNQ4Q8JENQIiXak_SY3Vv5WLNvbR 6CJVMTAHs9i2P3MBczTkJAPhGEAuQ

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/e6/62/e4e662d5e5bfe2532551128aa56f3c70.jpg

Wrong

06-02-2018, 10:37 PM

Georgia is not tribal at all, not conservative and quite tolerant by eastern European standards.

Few days ago there were protests of young people in front of parliament, the reason was anti drug raids in Tbilisi night clubs, especially in gay friendly ones. For two days parliament building became the biggest night club in Georgia ))) cant imagine same level of freedom and tolerance in any post soviet country, except Baltic states.

So when you speak about tribal and conservative Caucasus, specify republics, cause Georgia is in a very heart and not tribal at all.
There is nothing wrong to be tribal, conservative and intolerant. It is the last reaction against degeneracy and mixing.

The height of European preservation and uniqueness is tribalism combined with feudalism.

Porn Master

06-02-2018, 10:38 PM

could somebody clarify which ethnic groups reside in North Dagestan ?

Stears Caucasian ancestry could be from there if we can trust K36 report.

north dagestan has ethnic diversity, most are nogais, avars, dargins, chechens, kalmykians

user_

06-02-2018, 10:42 PM

Marmara
What is your purpose? Post dark Georgians, and lighter North Caucasians?
I can post hundred pictures of light Georgians and dark N Caucasians, so what? :)

Böri

06-02-2018, 10:43 PM

Dagestan is on the Derbend pass. That's historically the crossroads of the region, the coastal line alonside the Caspian was the only possible route to travel from the steppes north towards Iran in southern direction. It was battleground between Scythians and Acheamenids; later between Khazars and Sassanids with Arabs too later.
Arabs occupied parts of Dagestan too.

It's hell mixed, there are all sorts of people living there. I guess Tabasaran, Lezgins, Avars and Kumuks are the most numerous and with numerous other nations all around.

İ guess Chechens are the most unmixed since they always lived on highlands. Their ancestors never went down to lower lands (Terek river region, Balanjar etc).

user_

06-02-2018, 10:50 PM

Turks and Russians are very jealous about Georgians, cause this is only nation in Caucasus with real statehood and can unite Caucasus against northern and southern empires.

War Chef

06-02-2018, 10:51 PM

Georgians are monkey apes and baboons like their Kurdish cousins :monkeyeb:

Böri

06-02-2018, 10:54 PM

Turks and Russians are very jealous about Georgians, cause this is only nation in Caucasus with real statehood and can unite Caucasus against northern and southern empires.

Jealous? LOL. Your statehood is actually very old yes. Not older than Turks but certainly older than Russians. Dating back Jesus times. We must however note that you got it through Armenians and Acheamenids ;)

Marmara

06-02-2018, 10:58 PM

Marmara
What is your purpose? Post dark Georgians, and lighter North Caucasians?
I can post hundred pictures of light Georgians and dark N Caucasians, so what? :)

No I just post random pictures. Since Georgia is small and has been rather homogenous throughout history I assume there is not much phenotype diversity.

People in the pictures aren't dark, they're average. I could post cheerypicked dark Georgians but I don't, because i don't have anything against Georgians.

user_

06-02-2018, 11:00 PM

Jealous? LOL.

Georgia is barrier for Turkey to extend Turkic influence in North Caucasus and Azerbaijan.

user_

06-02-2018, 11:02 PM

No I just post random pictures. Since Georgia is small and has been rather homogenous throughout history I assume there is not much phenotype diversity.

People in the pictures aren't dark, they're average. I could post cheerypicked dark Georgians but I don't, because i don't have anything against Georgians.

That is not avarage Georgian pictures, and you know it. Biggest part of Georgians are pontids.

Marmara

06-02-2018, 11:27 PM

That is not avarage Georgian pictures, and you know it. Biggest part of Georgians are pontids.

Pontids are dolichocephalic. Most Georgians are brachycephalic taurids.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

06-03-2018, 01:27 AM

Caucasian people are real whites. Europeans are not.

Mr_anadolu

06-03-2018, 01:30 AM

Recep Tayip Erdogan himself is of Georgian ancestry, he said it with his own mouth maybe we should send him back to Georgia.

Rumata

06-03-2018, 03:45 AM

Georgia is not tribal at all, not conservative and quite tolerant by eastern European standards.

If it's so, you must be a unique Caucasian group. This would position you closer to Europe but further from the rest of Caucasus.

Acubens

06-03-2018, 04:12 AM

North Caucasians are white. Armenians and Georgians are brown MENAs like Turks, Kurds, Azeris.

LoLeL

06-03-2018, 05:35 AM

What I see in these images is: Georgians preserved their native phenotypes and seems they are lighter than their Armenian and Azerbaijani neighbors. Armenians have more Near Eastern vibes and Azeris have visible Iranian and Central Asian mixes. But I don't consider any of these peoples white. If "European" is a geographical term, then all of them are European.

But the fact is Georgians and North Caucasians are more Caucasoid than Europeans. Without migration of neolithic farmers and invasions of Eurasian tribes, an European would look like this, more or less:
https://i2.wp.com/shysociety.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/p05xbsb2.jpg

Georgians
https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/gettyimages-612881596-crop.jpg
http://georgiatoday.ge/uploads/news/2017/05/16/888d0eb174ff4b10429d5b1182beb736.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/SKMROAvt82I/AAAAAAAAD2s/pL7wbSia2XQ/s400/crowd_in_Tbilisi.JPG
http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/lg/public/2015/03/21/2015-03-21t154334z1600933612gf10000034274rtrmadp3georgia-protest.JPG

Armenians
https://cdni.rt.com/files/news/41/c5/00/00/erevan-1.si.jpg
https://iwpr.net/sites/default/files/styles/story_focal_590/public/images/2015_Story_Images/armenia-electric_demo_yerevan_14-nazik_armenakyan.jpg
https://iwpr.net/sites/default/files/styles/story_focal_590/public/images/2015_Story_Images/armenia-electric_demo_yerevan_15-nazik_armenakyan.jpg
https://iwpr.net/sites/default/files/styles/story_focal_590/public/images/2015_Story_Images/armenia-electric_demo_yerevan_18-nazik_armenakyan.jpg
https://iwpr.net/sites/default/files/styles/story_focal_590/public/images/2015_Story_Images/armenia-electric_demo_yerevan_09-nazik_armenakyan.jpg

Azerbaijanis
https://www.ifex.org/azerbaijan/2014/02/07/azerbaijan_protest_7feb2014_apimages__641x398.jpg
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2c81c1a68dee.jpg
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/11050288_846887822034043_567045730981614086_o.jpg
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ee9ec9f1ab46.jpg
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/7208fbac25eb.jpg
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/10406727_795216857220274_452129176355134582_n.jpg
https://www.indexoncensorship.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/523e1fde7b95.jpg

LoLeL

06-03-2018, 05:45 AM

And lol that "Christianity" card... :lol00001: I love the way some members view it as a sign of Whiteness/Europeanness... Following a Semitic religion and a swarthy near eastern man (Jesus) make people white? LMAO... :rotfl:

Wrong

06-03-2018, 08:22 AM

Recep Tayip Erdogan himself is of Georgian ancestry, he said it with his own mouth maybe we should send him back to Georgia.
A huge percentage of modern Turkish people originate outside Turkey, especially from neighboring regions: Balkanites, Greeks, Slavs, Kurds, Caucasians, Armenians, Assyrians, Arabs and so on.

Without the Balkan, you would not have your favorite man, the Ataturk.

Mr_anadolu

06-03-2018, 09:08 AM

Most turks especially from central turkey are either native Anatolians or mixed and if it wasn't for Turkish you would not have the word balkan.

Nanushka

06-03-2018, 02:17 PM

Northern caucasian peoples are whiter than Southern caucasians who are under the effect of MENA more, its a fact, and some Georgians on the northern borders are whiter compared to other southern caucasians ie Armenians and Azeris. There are also many Azeris living in southern Daghestan today, mixing with Dargins and other lowland peoples

And lol that "Christianity" card... :lol00001: I love the way some members view it as a sign of Whiteness/Europeanness... Following a Semitic religion and a swarthy near eastern man (Jesus) make people white? LMAO... :rotfl:

True. If it werent the paganism-tengrism that was brought to Europe by steppe nomads and their influence on christianity, there would be no 'european christianity' as you know it today. There is no Santa, Halloween or wish trees etc in actual christianity

sean

08-12-2019, 12:15 PM

No.

I genuinely can't distinguish "Caucasians" from Turkics.

Decius

08-12-2019, 12:17 PM

Janice

08-12-2019, 10:05 PM

Georgians? Yes. Armenians, Chechens and Azeris? I think not

Root

08-12-2019, 10:08 PM

Georgians? Yes. Armenians, Chechens and Azeris? I think not

Georgians but not Armenians?

Ayetooey

08-12-2019, 10:15 PM

By definition Georgians, Armenians, Azeris are not European since none of these countries are geographically in Europe. North Caucasian people like Chechens, Dagestanis are technically European since their land is, though genetically they cluster with other west asian Caucacus people not Europeans.

Frowning Man

04-14-2020, 12:23 AM

I think that we Caucasians do not belong to Europeans. We are very different from Europeans mentality, appearance, traditions, culture. We are more conservative. And I think in most different situations Europeans simply do not understand us. And many here began to argue who is lighter in the Caucasus who is darker. Armenians have a lot of bright people. maybe they are darker because they have a hotter and drier climate. Further. The North Caucasian peoples are not at all lighter than the Georgians. I mean that the percentage of bright eyes and hair among Chechens, Ossetians and Dagestan peoples is not at all greater than among Georgians. And to compare and prove from photographs who is lighter is very strange. They do not reflect reality at all. The Armenoid influence of the North Caucasians is no less than that of the Georgians. They do not live in Scandinavia so that they have no Armenoid influence. The North Caucasus is close to Georgia and the climate there is the same and there is no less sunlight. About Caucasians should be reasoned when you saw them and saw a lot, and not from photographs that are on the Internet. Since more often there it is specially laid out the bright Caucasians. Georgians, Chechens, Ossetians, Ingush, Dagestan peoples have the same percentage of light-eyed and fair-haired. I know what I'm talking about. Since I'm sure I have seen more Caucasians than 90% of the people on the forum. Even 99%.