View Full Version : Turks to destroy the archaeological site of Allianoi
San Galgano
10-02-2010, 01:11 PM
Ancient Roman spa awaits flooding in Turkey
ALLIANOI, Turkey [correct: occupied Asia Minor] — Under a mild autumn sun, workers bustle about like bees at a Roman bath complex sprawling over a green plain in western Turkey in what looks like a regular excavation site.
But the fate awaiting the impressive ancient spa of Allianoi is dark: the workers here are tasked with burying the site and not digging it out to reveal its secrets.
Much to the consternation of archaeologists and civic bodies, the Turkish government has said it will go ahead with flooding the valley the site sits in to serve as a dam reservoir with a capacity to irrigate 8,000 hectares (19,760 acres) of farmland.
The work now underway is an effort to preserve the complex for future generations, before officials allow water to accumulate in the reservoir for the Yorganli dam before the end of the year.
As archaeologists -- denied entry to the site -- mourn the loss of a significant treasure, workers dump wheelbarrows of sand over the foundations of the hospital of Galen, a prominent Roman physician born in the 2nd century AD in the nearby city of Pergamon, or modern-day Bergama.
Soon the thermal bath -- with its five metre-high (17 feet-high) walls and a pool still powered by a hot spring -- will disappear under the sand, after being covered with a pinkish protective coating, along with buildings looking out over a columned courtyard, rooms covered with mosaics and paved walkways.
It is a sad sight for Professor Ahmet Yaras who excavated Allianoi for nine years and who says 80 percent of the site has yet to see the daylight.
"Normally, cultural treasures need to be examined and registered before any action is taken on a site. Here, flooding the site before the excavation is complete is a massacre," lamented the archaeologist.
"There is no other warm bath, health center in the world as well preserved as this... Unfortunately, all this will be abandoned forever," he said.
Furthermore, Yasar expressed doubt that the sand will be enough to preserve the site under 30 metres of water.
"Even if the site were protected, the sedimentation brought by the dam will reach 15 or 16 meters in 50 years time. It would be crazy to try to excavate the complex again at such a depth," he added.
But the fate of the site is not much of a concern for the farmers at the nearby village, who see the Yorganli dam -- completed in 2007 -- as the answer to their irrigation problems.
"They exaggerate, I do not think there is much of the ancient there. It is just a hot spring," said Mehmet Aydin, 52, who grows cotton, tomatoes and corn on his plot.
His remarks almost echo the views of Environment Minister Veysel Eroglu who said in late August: "Allianoi does not exist, it is an invention... There is just a hot spring like many others across Turkey."
His remarks were roundly criticized while the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS), the European non-governmental preservation organization Europa Nostra and archaeologists from the European Union urged the Turkish government in a letter to preserve the "common [correct: Greco-Roman] heritage" at Allianoi.
But the game seems to be over: Culture Minister Ertugrul Gunay quashed hope of saving Allianoi last week when he dismissed the idea of questioning the local archaeological commission's decision in late August to bury the site for preservation.
"After all, Allianoi remained underground for a long time and it surfaced only during drilling works," he said.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TKZDWFScscI/AAAAAAAACoY/1amagbPhyw4/s1600/allianoi.jpg
RoyBatty
10-02-2010, 01:33 PM
Keep them out of Europe
San Galgano
10-02-2010, 01:37 PM
Keep them out of Europe
Indeed. That's how they would like to enter Europe. Destroying european culture and legacy as they are doing since the fall of Constantinople.
Osweo
10-02-2010, 02:02 PM
Register your disgust;
Turkish embassies and consulates abroad
http://www.allaboutturkey.com/turkconsulate.htm
Republic of Turkey Ministry of Foreign Affairs
info@mfa.gov.tr e-mail address is only for views on the technical issues concerning the website. {{{LOL = extra pain in the arse for them!}}}
TURKISH EMBASSY IN LONDON
Telephone:+44 20 73 93 02 02
Fax:+44 20 73 93 00 66, +44 20 73 93 92 13
e-Mail: turkemb.london@mfa.gov.tr
Ahem;
Dear Sir or Madam,
I write to register my dismay at the willful destruction of the Turkish archaeological site of Allianoi. Much to the consternation of archaeologists and civic bodies, the Turkish government has said it will go ahead with flooding the valley the site sits in to serve as a dam reservoir, and has denied archaeologists the chance to carry out emergency excavations. I have therefore reconsidered my plans to take a holiday in your country, and have told my friends and aquaintances of my decision and its basis in my disgust for Turkey's poor custodianship of priceless antiquities.
Yours,
Osweo :p
Say you won't go on holiday there. It'll do fuck all, but at least it will any some Turk bureaucrat. You might otherwise spend the time required picking your nose or biting your fingernails, after all.
MORE:
Why the Roman spa town of Allianoi must be saved
We continue to believe that it is still not too late for Turkish political leaders to take necessary action to avoid such a cultural tragedy to take place. Allianoi need not be sacrificed
By Sneška Quaedvlieg-Mihailovic | Web only
Published online 30 Sep 10 (opinion)
The ancient site of Allianoi is being threatened by the construction of a dam
See also:
• Turkey’s Roman spa town in peril
The most recent reports from Turkey about the Roman spa complex of Allianoi, sent by the local Allianoi Initiative led by the archaeologist professor Ahmet Yaras, says that now only the tops of excavated walls and columns poke through sand that workers employed by the Turkish State Waterworks are laying. This outstanding Roman archaeological site is being made ready to be submerged under water as work resumes on the controversial Yortanli dam. If the dam's construction goes ahead and the valley flooded to create a reservoir, ancient history will be lost by an irrigation scheme with an expected life-span of only 50 years.
Excavated by archaeologists only relatively recently, the ancient spa complex of Allianoi near Bergama in western Turkey has already revealed many historically rich monuments, including the thermal baths, bridges, streets and dwellings, and provided important scientific insights into Roman art, architecture, engineering, hydrology, medicine and pharmacology. Enlarged by the Emperor Hadrian, Allianoi dates mainly from the 2nd century AD, a time of emerging urban centers in Anatolia and of the construction of the famous Asklepion of nearby Pergamon.
In breach of international covenants
Europa Nostra immediately renewed its plea to leading Turkish politicians to save the site when we heard that work had begun to bury Allianoi in sand, in preparation for its flooding. We also informed the European Commission, European Parliament, Council of Europe and Unesco of our plea. We re-iterated our firm belief that should Allianoi disappear first under sand and then under water, this would constitute a breach of international regulations and covenants signed by Turkey, and would be contrary to the country’s own court injunctions. This latest plea continues our long-standing campaign in support of Allianoi and of finding alternative solutions to save it. In 2007, we joined forces with the International Council on Monuments and Sites and the European Association of Archaeologists to launch a public appeal to save Allianoi. So far, the combined local, national and European campaigns have managed to delay the dam. We now fear that the moment when Allianoi will be lost is drawing closer and closer.
Alternatives to flooding the site
Back in 2006, the Turkish minister of culture set up a special scientific committee that recommended a series of alternative conservation measures which could be undertaken at Allianoi if the valley was flooded. These included the protection of the site as a sunken island by the construction of an earth wall, or the relocation of some of the archaeological site’s most important structures. These recommendations brought some hope for the future of Allianoi.
We deeply regret that the Turkish government did not take those recommendations duly into consideration. Instead, it seems to have remained deaf to local, national, European and international pleas from concerned citizens and professionals alike. Yet, we continue to believe that it is still not too late for Turkish political leaders to take necessary action to avoid such a cultural tragedy to take place. Allianoi need not be sacrificed.
Lost opportunity
In Allianoi, the issues at stake are clear: a significant European cultural heritage site will be lost along with the potential for tourism-led economic development in the area. Tourism based on the unsustainable model of large hotels on sandy beaches, might benefit those on the narrow strip alongside its coast but not Turkey's vast interior. Sites such as Allianoi, which could be developed into a cultural and health tourism centre, would give deeper cultural and social meaning to the economic benefits of tourism, and would offer an example to follow also to other countries in the wider region, from Bulgaria to Syria.
What will be lost is not only a site of archaeological importance, but also a tremendous opportunity for sustainable development. Turkey has an embarrassment of architectural and archaeological riches, from the Roman era to Justinian churches and Ottoman mosques. But the quantity and scale of these remains is no reason to deliberately sacrifice others such as Allianoi. The opportunity these sites represent—Allianoi included—is that of development led by sustainable tourism. Such alternatives require vision, long-term policy, bravery and leadership on the part of the government, but will undoubtedly pay dividends for Turkey and for the rest of Europe.
Dams versus cultural heritage
The construction of hydroelectric dams and power stations in the Black Sea region is one of the main threats towards the cultural heritage of the ancient Mesopotamia region where river basins begot important centres of civilisation which lasted for thousands of years. Already, in south-east Turkey important cities such as Samsat have been affected by dams, and currently Hasankeyf with its important symbolic meaning for the Kurds, is similarly being threatened.
Big construction firms and the support of international and national banks allow the financing and building of such mega-projects in Turkey. The environmental movement and Turkey’s fledgling heritage organisations are unfortunately still too weak when matched against big businesses and the politicians at national and regional levels who support such projects.
The question of future water supply is going to be a difficult one for Turkey. The careful harvesting and marshalling of water can and should be balanced with Turkey’s other precious resource: its phenomenally rich and diverse cultural heritage, the potential of which has only been partially unfolded. The future prize—an expanding but sustainable tourism development beyond the coastal strip based on the respect and understanding of our common European heritage—must be worth it.
The writer is the secretary general of Europa Nostra, a European federation of heritage organisations committed to raise awareness of the value of Europe’s cultural heritage and to work to protect it for present and future generations.
www.europanostra.org
Today archaeological site of Allianoi, tomorrow Europe!
San Galgano
10-02-2010, 02:27 PM
Well done Osweo!
Ibericus
10-02-2010, 02:32 PM
Ok, what are we waiting to destroy all the european mosques ?
Crossbow
10-02-2010, 02:53 PM
"The foundation of the world is a mark of the Greeks.
the destruction of that world is reserved for the Turks"
Djelaleddin Rumi (d.1273), Turkish poet/philosopher.
Osweo
10-02-2010, 02:58 PM
I should have said, there's a 'facebook' button on the article here;
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Why+the+Roman+spa+town+of+Allianoi+must+be+saved/21561
(I am informed that this 'Facebook' is popular nowadays... :sherlock:)
Ok, what are we waiting to destroy all the european mosques ?
You need to make sure they're all full to bursting before you destroy them. :lol:
Lábaru
10-02-2010, 03:14 PM
They are animals, I hope turks do not enter the European Union....
Charles Martel
10-02-2010, 03:34 PM
This what happens when people are brainwashed and lose their culture. Most Turks of today are in fact of European blood. However they lost being European when they adopted Islam and Turkic speech of their Turkic Mongoloid rulers. Today Turks seem themselves as the continuation of the Turkic and Islamic civilization rather than Europe, this why they don't care about the historical importance of European monuments.
Lábaru
10-02-2010, 04:16 PM
This what happens when people are brainwashed and lose their culture. Most Turks of today are in fact of European blood. However they lost being European when they adopted Islam and Turkic speech of their Turkic Mongoloid rulers. Today Turks seem themselves as the continuation of the Turkic and Islamic civilization rather than Europe, this why they don't care about the historical importance of European monuments.
Totally true, God bless the Spanish reconquest xD
Ibericus
10-02-2010, 04:17 PM
Turks are not of european blood. They are a mix of european, mongoloid, middle-eastern.
Crossbow
10-02-2010, 04:32 PM
"Only the Turkish Nation has the right to make ethnic and racial
demands in this country"
Ismet Inönü, successor to Atatürk in 1938.
"Even when the Kurds established a Kurd state in Argentina, Turkey would be fighting this".
Recep Tayyip Erdogan, present Turkish Prime Minister.
Charles Martel
10-02-2010, 04:50 PM
Turks are not of european blood. They are a mix of european, mongoloid, middle-eastern.
True but most Turks ethnic ones are mostly of Greek and Caucasian origins. The Middle Eastern is mostly seen in the regions Near Iran-Iraq and the Levant. Where these people have Semitic or Iranic origins. The Mongoloid admixture splattered every where.
RoyBatty
10-02-2010, 05:07 PM
Ok, what are we waiting to destroy all the european mosques ?
We could start by flooding their kebab shops? :D
San Galgano
10-02-2010, 05:30 PM
We could start by flooding their kebab shops? :D
LOL
Someone tried to flood a Kebab shop with Coca-Cola and the result was this.:D
http://krikor.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/sk_mc_kebab.jpg
That bath looks to be in pretty good structural shape; what a loss if the Turks choose to destroy it, and hell, they might as well go and dynamite Hisarlik while they're at it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allianoi
San Galgano
10-02-2010, 05:56 PM
It is a beautiful place and as i have read a large part is still unexplored.
Only turks could destroy such a beauty.
http://www.arkitera.com/UserFiles/Image/event/type/exhibition/2006/allianoi_segi.jpg
http://www.spoizmir.org/images/stories/Allianoi/allianoi_x.jpg
http://www.megastarkan.org/wp-content/gallery/haberler/allianoiyi_nasil_bilirdiniz.jpg
http://www.kilikien.de/exkursion/bilder/anreise/249_4976_bg.jpg
Ibericus
10-02-2010, 05:59 PM
True but most Turks ethnic ones are mostly of Greek and Caucasian origins. The Middle Eastern is mostly seen in the regions Near Iran-Iraq and the Levant. Where these people have Semitic or Iranic origins. The Mongoloid admixture splattered every where.
The greek ancestry is mostly on the west coast of Turkey, which was part of ancient greek territory. But in general Turks cluster with Syrians and other middle-easterns :
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDgV2r3hxI/AAAAAAAACck/sYi1shNB8bc/s1600/westeurasianpca.jpg
https://www.forumbiodiversity.com/images/upload/genetics/BGA_ForumBiodiversity_Euro.png
Yup, pretty sad overall, UNESCO can't even do much in getting the place declared a world heritage sight from the looks of things.
RoyBatty
10-02-2010, 06:02 PM
Destroying archeological sites and reinventing history is common practice with these monkeys. The Turks and Azerbaijanis similarly buldoze anything which looks remotely Armenian in order to "prove" that "it was never Armenian land" etc.
San Galgano
10-02-2010, 06:07 PM
Destroying archeological sites and reinventing history is common practice with these monkeys. The Turks and Azerbaijanis similarly buldoze anything which looks remotely Armenian in order to "prove" that "it was never Armenian land" etc.
The funny thing is that when the flawed theory of etruscans=turks came out, the turks polluted Youtube with videos such as we are the romans, we invented latin alphabet, we are etruscans the fathers of romans and so on.
:rotfl::pound:
The funny thing is that when the flawed theory of etruscans=turks came out, the turks polluted Youtube with videos such as we are the romans, we invented latin alphabet, we are etruscans the fathers of romans and so on.
:rotfl::pound:
The ancestors of the Turks (Xiongnu et al.) were in and around Central/East Asia when the Etruscans rose and fell in Italy. IIRC, that the Etruscans came from Anatolia/Asia Minor is an old belief, going back to the Greek historians like Herodotus, and it wasn't universally agreed upon even then. In the Aeneid, Virgil presents the Etruscans as indigenous to Italy, I believe, when they ally with the Rutulians to fight the Trojan-Latin alliance.
Crossbow
10-02-2010, 06:38 PM
The funny thing is that when the flawed theory of etruscans=turks came out, the turks polluted Youtube with videos such as we are the romans, we invented latin alphabet, we are etruscans the fathers of romans and so on.
:rotfl::pound:
And they also claim the immigrants brought wealth and prosperity in Western Europe. Although you can laugh about it, these ridiculous conclusions are cleverly used by their leaders, who are pretty sly and apply them to indoctrinate the crowd.
Like: "We're fed up being looked upon as second class citizens, we also contributed to Europe, we always did. Europe owes us a lot" etc, thus reversing history with the help of European governments of course. I wonder what the content of history books in schools might look like at present, and to what extent it differs from what I've learned, not to mention what it will be like in times to come.
Ibericus
10-02-2010, 07:41 PM
And they also claim the immigrants brought wealth and prosperity in Western Europe. Although you can laugh about it, these ridiculous conclusions are cleverly used by their leaders, who are pretty sly and apply them to indoctrinate the crowd.
Like: "We're fed up being looked upon as second class citizens, we also contributed to Europe, we always did. Europe owes us a lot" etc, thus reversing history with the help of European governments of course. I wonder what the content of history books in schools might look like at present, and to what extent it differs from what I've learned, not to mention what it will be like in times to come.
When they say this, I wonder : If they can bring wealth and prosperity to Western Europe, why are their countries such shitholes ? Why they cant stay at home and bring the same prosperity and wealth to their own countries ?
Crossbow
10-02-2010, 08:18 PM
When they say this, I wonder : If they can bring wealth and prosperity to Western Europe, why are their countries such shitholes ? Why they cant stay at home and bring the same prosperity and wealth to their own countries ?
Indeed, that's the contradiction, and a better way of saying it is that it's plain bullshit!
Treffie
10-03-2010, 09:47 AM
Reminds me of the time when the English decided to destroy the community of Tryweryn (http://www.llgc.org.uk/ymgyrchu/Dwr/Tryweryn/index-e.htm) in Wales. :(
Osweo
10-03-2010, 09:03 PM
Reminds me of the time when the English decided to destroy the community of Tryweryn (http://www.llgc.org.uk/ymgyrchu/Dwr/Tryweryn/index-e.htm) in Wales. :(Yeah, my parents were breaking the rocks with pick-axes and pushing the wheelbarrows in between having their nappies changed. :rolleyes2:
The Tryweryn Bill was passed by Parliament on 1 August 1957. This was a private measure, passed by Harold Macmillan's Conservative government
An English name?!
and sponsored by Liverpool City Council
Ah, so the reser was for the sake of the Capital of North Wales (http://www.southwales.net/northwalescapital.html)anyway. :rolleyes:
Murphy
10-03-2010, 09:54 PM
For Christ's sake it is only a pile of stones..
For Christ's sake it is only a pile of stones..
And yet you'd bleat to high heaven if someone wanted to bulldoze Saint Peter's.
*Yawn*
Osweo
10-04-2010, 08:58 PM
Dear Sir/Mme,
info@mfa.gov.tr e-mail address is only for views on the technical issues concerning the website.
Please refer to the e-consulate website for further visa and related information, at
http://www.e-konsolosluk.net/Visa/Visa_Welcome.aspx
(Other enquiries: Turkish Representations)
For language options, please check the menu under “Türkçe” section on the website.
Sincerely,
Republic of Turkey, Ministry of Foreign Affairs
First results of the Apricity 'Annoy Turkish Officials' drive... :p
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