Are Estonians, Balts?

[Äike]

Loki locked my thread and asked me to create a new poll, so I am creating a new one. I am asking this question from a linguistic/cultural viewpoint. If you think that Estonians are defined as speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of the Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes, then vote yes. If you do not think that Estonians are Balts, then vote no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balts
The Balts or Baltic peoples (People who live by the Baltic Sea), defined as speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of the Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes who settled the area between the Jutland peninsula in the west and Moscow, Oka and Volga rivers basins in the east. One of the features of Baltic languages is the number of conservative or archaic features retained. Among the Baltic peoples are modern Lithuanians, Latvians (including Latgalians) — all Eastern Balts — as well as the Prussians, Yotvingians and Galindians — the Western Balts — whose languages and cultures are now extinct.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg/544px-Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg.png
Distribution of the Baltic tribes, circa 1200 CE.

[Loki]

If you think that Estonians are defined as speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of the Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes, then vote yes.




If you do not think that Estonians are Balts, then vote no.


That's apples and pears. In fact, two questions. Please clarify. To your first question, I would vote a resounding "No". But to your second, I would vote "Yes". Hence in this confusing scenario I refrain from voting, stating only my position:

Estonians are modern-day Balts who speak a Finnic language.

^^ edited

[Äike]

That's apples and pears. In fact, two questions. Please clarify. To your first question, I would vote a resounding "No". But to your second, I would vote "Yes". Hence in this confusing scenario I refrain from voting, stating only my position:

There's nothing confusing, just read my original post. I'll make the sentence even easier to read:

The Balts, defined as speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of the Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes.


Estonians are modern-day Balts who speak a Finnic language.


Modern-day Balts? Wtf are modern-day Balts? Are you saying that modern-day Estonians are speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of Indo-European language family and are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes. While ancient Estonians were Finnic? When did this change take place, from Finnic people(speakers of Finnic languages) to Baltic people(speakers of Baltic languages)?

[Sahson]

Your question delves into two fields. Cultural and Linguistic. You are making the assumption that everyone will think that cultural is linked through linguistics, and that you can not have one without the other. However you in fact can.

Please rephrase the question.

[Loki]

Modern-day Balts? Wtf are modern-day Balts?


Inhabitants of the Baltic region. Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians and Russians (Kaliningrad). In the broader sense you can include Poland, Finland and Sweden to that, since they are all located on the Baltic shore (well yes a part of Germany too, and Denmark).



Are you saying that modern-day Estonians are speakers of one of the Baltic languages, a branch of Indo-European language family, are descended from a group of Indo-European tribes.


No.

[W. R.]

If you are trying to find out how many people know that Estonians don’t speak a Baltic language and aren’t Indo-Europeans, then I suggest that you should reformulate the question just like this: Do you think that Estonians speak... etc. What are you trying to achieve anyway?

Or are you just trolling other forum members for lulz? :p

[Äike]

Your question delves into two fields. Cultural and Linguistic. You are making the assumption that everyone will think that cultural is linked through linguistics, and that you can not have one without the other. However you in fact can.

Please rephrase the question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_people_in_the_United_Kingdom
Baltic people in the United Kingdom
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baltic people in the United Kingdom are those born or raised/resident in the UK who are of Estonian (although only considered Baltic geographically, not linguistically or culturally), Latvian and Lithuanian origin.

...

Estonians aren't considered Baltic linguistically nor culturally. We are Baltic only geographically. If Finland would have also been annexed in 1940, then you'd read something like this from the Wikipedia article:

Baltic people in the United Kingdom
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baltic people in the United Kingdom are those born or raised/resident in the UK who are of Estonian (although only considered Baltic geographically, not linguistically or culturally), Finnish (although only considered Baltic geographically, not linguistically or culturally), Latvian and Lithuanian origin.

[Äike]

If you are trying to find out how many people know that Estonians don’t speak a Baltic language and aren’t Indo-Europeans, then I suggest that you should reformulate the question just like this: Do you think that Estonians speak... etc. What are you trying to achieve anyway?

Or are you just trolling other forum members for lulz? :p

The last poll was posted half jokingly, but I posted this one while being dead serious. I was extremely surprised if not shocked if I saw that the majority voted yes in the last poll. I thought that I made things clear by inserting a link to the Wikipedia article about Balts. I copy-pasted everything into my original post, this time.

[Wyn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_people_in_the_United_Kingdom
Baltic people in the United Kingdom
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baltic people in the United Kingdom are those born or raised/resident in the UK who are of Estonian (although only considered Baltic geographically, not linguistically or culturally), Latvian and Lithuanian origin.


If you check an older revision of that page (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baltic_people_in_the_United_Kingdo m&oldid=254642039), you will see that it once read:


Baltic people in the United Kingdom are those born or raised/resident in the UK who are of Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian origin.

But nice try.

Edit: Lol!! Neg-repping me because I proved your LOOK WAT TEH WIKIPEDIA SEZ bullshit is useless.

[Sahson]

As you can see there is the conditional word or there in both sentences as opposed to and. Thus meaning it is possible that you could have a group who's culture is different but share a similar language to another different culture.

Also what's the point in creating a thread like this if you are going to spoon feed/shove all this information down people's throats so to speak. It seems you have a complex over people's ignorance to your country.

[Äike]

If you check an older revision of that page (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baltic_people_in_the_United_Kingdo m&oldid=254642039), you will see that it once read:



But nice try.

Looks like people at Wikipedia like to fix broken articles. I haven't seen the old version of the article, I stumbled upon it a few days ago when using Google with the term "Baltic people". In the geographic sense, Estonians are as Baltic as Sweden or Finland.

In the linguistic sense(what we are discussing now), you are more of a Balt than I am.

[W. R.]

If you check an older revision of that page (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baltic_people_in_the_United_Kingdo m&oldid=254642039), you will see that it once read:
Baltic people in the United Kingdom are those born or raised/resident in the UK who are of Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian origin.But nice try.Surprisingly even in the edited article there stands:

Notable Britons of Baltic origin: Lembit Öpik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lembit_Öpik)

[Äike]

As you can see there is the conditional word or there in both sentences as opposed to and. Thus meaning it is possible that you could have a group who's culture is different but share a similar language to another different culture.

Also what's the point in creating a thread like this if you are going to spoon feed/shove all this information down people's throats so to speak. It seems you have a complex over people's ignorance to your country.

Estonians (at least in the United Kingdom, according to the article) aren't Baltic in the cultural nor linguistic sense, do you agree? Or are you going to post another meaningless post?

[Äike]

A Spaniard and a Frenchman think that Estonians descend from Indo-Europeans and speak one of the Baltic languages.

Interesting. :icon_ask:

[Pallantides]

Even Swedes make the error:D
Ic-EO53DOIU

[Sahson]

Estonians (at least in the United Kingdom, according to the article) aren't Baltic in the cultural nor linguistic sense, do you agree? Or are you going to post another meaningless post?

That's is a very broad statement you are making. If you think I have been implying my opinion in the first 2 posts then you are wrong. You have failed to expand the topic, there has been no comparative between the cultural identities of the imagined nations that you have discussed.

Next time do not deduce my posts, The point is you made an assumption, and not everyone will view culture, and linguistic as one field. I asked politely if you could expand the topic several times now, because I want to know if the issue you are concerned is the linguistic issue, or a cultural aspect. There is a difference.

Culture

particular society at a particular time and place; "early Mayan civilization"
the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group
acculturation: all the knowledge and values shared by a society
(biology) the growing of microorganisms in a nutrient medium (such as gelatin or agar); "the culture of cells in a Petri dish"
the attitudes and behavior that are characteristic of a particular social group or organization; "the developing drug culture"; "the reason that the agency is doomed to inaction has something to do with the FBI culture" - Princeton University Dictionary

Linguistic


consisting of or related to language; "linguistic behavior"; "a linguistic atlas"; "lingual diversity"
of or relating to the scientific study of language; "linguistic theory"
- Princeton University Dictionary

[The Ripper]

Even Swedes make the error:D
Ic-EO53DOIU

NOO! Not teh Nordic Brothers!