oldest Y haplogroup found in europe: C and CF -- any members who have them?

i wonder if theres any one here who have this group because the oldest modern homo sapiens sapiens samples found in europe were C -- both in western and eastern europe.

37,000 years old kostyonki man as aoldest modern human being found in europe so far was ydnk C and mtdnk U2.

also in 2016 we learnt, that from oldest western hunter gatherer samples we have C.
35,000 years old goyet hunter gatherer of belgium was y C and mt M.
30,000 years old vestonitse hunter gatherer of czech republic was y C and mt U5.

and 7,000 years old la brana hunter gatherers of north west spain were C1a2 and U5b2c1 (but i think they werent brothers) and around same time the same y dnk was present in ancients in hungary.

though i read that proto aurignacian (47,000-43,000 years old) homo sapiens y dnk was basal F and their mtdnks were N and R. so maybe its better to put it this say as CF is oldest in europe so far. but in terms of whgs C was oldest for them. also during aurignacian culture (between 43,000-28,000), the types of C were CT, C1a and C1b.

and these kept being seen in more recent times too, for instance:


Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş Culture (c. 8,000 to 6,500 ybp ; Southeast Europe): F (x2), G2, G2a (x5), G2a2b (x2), H2, I, I2a, I2a1
Linear Pottery Culture (aka LBK, c. 8,000 to 6,500 ybp ; Central Europe): C1a2 (x2), F (x2), G2a2a (x3), G2a2a1 (x2), G2a2b (x3), I1, T1a (x2)
Sopot & Lengyel Cultures (7000 to 5400 ybp ; Central Europe): E1b1b-M78, I2a, J2
Cardium Pottery Culture (c. 8,400 to 4,700 ybp ; Mediterranean Europe): E1b1b-V13, G2a (x3), I2a1b1, R1b1c-V88
Atlantic Megalithic Culture (c. 7,000 to 4,000 ybp ; Western Europe): G2a (x20); H2, I2a1 (x4), I2a2a1b2
Funnelbeaker Culture (aka TRB, c. 6,000 to 4,700 ybp ; Northern Europe):
Baalberge group (c. 5,800 to 5,350 ybp ; central Germany): I, R1
Salzmünde group (5,400 to 5,000 ybp : East Germany): G2a2a (x2), I2a1b1a (x2)

in terms of today in europe i read people with family name llach in garrotxa of catalonia, spain have it, unlike same family name people from other areas.
and it also seen in these countries among others and in these family names:
(but keep in mind not all bearers/inheriters of these family names have to have be same like them)
in english: coote, kinsman, spiller
in german: naumann
in spanish: rivas
in irish: condon, creed, thompson
in northern irish: thompson
in scots: aitcheson, elliott
in hungarians: kisch, papp
in italians: marazzo
in poles: bemben, kulma, sosinowski, sosnowski
in european canadians: doucet, doucette, king, savoy
in austrians: kaufmann

not a haplogroup which happened to have great impact in europe in terms of today obviously but overall in very small percentages its all around west-east and north-south in europe.

so any member who have such group or with a real life acquaintances? a relative or a friend?

any one? or do you know wich klads of c were these?

btw dienikes says



Brown-skinned, blue-eyed, Y-haplogroup C-bearing European hunter-gatherer from Spain (Olalde et al. 2014) (http://dienekes.blogspot.com.tr/2014/01/brown-skinned-blue-eyed-y-haplogroup-c.html)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Om6uNP8WqVI/UuW0UaLeKGI/AAAAAAAAJec/8mZ_0eqk9T0/s1600/1389897619717-rekonstruktion.jpg
The other finding (not mentioned in the abstract) is that La Brana 1 belonged to Y-haplogroup C6! This is a low-frequency European clade of haplogroup C. So now, we have evidence that haplogroup C is not eastern Eurasian (as the presence of its subclades in Australia, India, East Asia, and the Americas might suggest), but a pan-Eurasian entity.

[Not a Cop]

I think there is or was some Iberian member here with that haplogroup.

[Petalpusher]

Goldfenix is F and V.

[Peterski]

As of January 2016, "C Haplogroup Y-DNA" Project on Family Tree DNA included the following:

C1a2 (Paleo-European: Aurignacian, Gravettian, La Brana, etc.) - 15 people:

C1a2-V20:

Ireland - 2
Upper Lusatia (Leipzig) - 1

C1a2a-V222:

Scotland - 1
Ireland - 1
England - 1
Calabria - 1
Subcarpathia (Komarnyky, near Lviv) - 1
Ithaca Island - 1
Hungary - 1
Ulster - 2

C1a2a2-Z29329:

Subcarpathia (Stare Miasto - "Old Town" in Polish :eek: - near Rzeszów) - 1
Valencian Country (Soneja) - 1
Aragon - 1

C2b1c-F4002 (this is often called "Genghis Khan's descendants") - 3 people:

Russia (Sudzha, Kursk Oblast) - 1
Ukraine (Poltava) - 1
Bukovina (Rădăuţi) - 1

C2e-Z1338 (IIRC the most common East Asian subclade of C) - 1 person:

Ireland - 1

C2b1a1b-F3985 (likely ANE, related to Amerindian C2b1a1a-P39) - 4 people:

Vorarlberg - 1
Českobudějovická Pánev - 1
Mazovia - 2

C2b1-F1699 (probably also F3985, but not tested deep enough) - 3 people:

Rhineland - 1
Thuringia - 1
Upper Spiš (Slovenská Ves) - 1

C in case of which subclade was not established (as of January) - 4 people:

Cornwall - 1
Rhineland - 1
Sicily - 1
Campania - 1

C1b (Kostenki14 cluster) - not found in modern Europe so far (AFAIK).

[Lucas]

C1b (Kostenki14 cluster) - not found in modern Europe (but Australian Aborigines have it).

You are sure of this? I recently found original article (in Russian) about Kostenki XIV and he was indeed proto-Australoid in skull appearance.

Could you give link to paper?

[Peterski]

Also in: "Y chromosome polymorphisms and haplotypes in South Saxony-Anhalt (Germany)":

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(05)00021-6/pdf

Authors found 1 sample (frequency 0.43%) of C among 234 Germans from Halle an der Saale.

[Peterski]

Could you give link to paper?

To paper about what? About Kostenki14 or about haplogroups of Australian Aborigines?

[Lucas]

To paper about what? About Kostenki14 or about haplogroups of Australian Aborigines?

Kostenki 14 haplogroup

[Peterski]

Kostenki 14 haplogroup

It is from Fu 2016 (haplogroups are listed in "Extended Data Table 1"):

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301742169_The_genetic_history_of_Ice_Age_Europe

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7606/full/nature17993.html

Also Genetiker added some extra information about some haplogroups:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/y-snp-calls-from-ice-age-europe/

[Lucas]

Thanks

[Rethel]

Subscribed

Goldfenix is F and V.

whoaa hail to the boss goldfenix!! wheres that featured vintage guy now??? he deserve a tribute from us :D

[Longbowman]

can confirm GF is F and V, I have him on 23andme. Very rare, collect them all!

[Dorian]

I'm not much into these things but I was wondering could this component be the reason for the pseudo-asiatic appearance of paleolithic survivors?

[gold_fenix]

Goldfenix is F and V.

Correct

[Myanthropologies]

I think i have the mtdna

[Peterski]

Some new samples from Upper Paleolithic Russia (Sunghir):

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2017/10/04/science.aao1807

mtDNA: 1x U8c, 3x U2

Y-DNA: all (4x) C1a2

Individual Coverage Sex mtDNA Y-DNA Age(calBP)
Sunghir 1 1.11 M U8c C1a2 33,875-31,770
Sunghir 2 4.08 M U2 C1a2 35,283-33,185
Sunghir 3 10.75 M U2 C1a2 35,154-33,031
Sunghir 4 3.87 M U2 C1a2 34,485-33,499
Sunghir 5 0.001 - - - 30,780-29,746*


Individuals mapped onto a previously inferred admix-ture graph of early Eurasians (4, 8) placed the Sunghir cluster as a descendent of a lineage related to the Kostenki 14 individual, contributing the major fraction of the ancestry of the ‘Vêstonice cluster’ (Fig. 3C and figs. S21 to S24). Adding the low coverage Kostenki 12 individual suggests a closer relationship to the Sunghir group rather than with the ear-lier Kostenki 14 individual (fig. S25). Finally, Kostenki 14 shows substantial population-specific drift after its diver-gence from the shared ancestor with Sunghir, allowing us to reject a direct ancestral relationship to both Sunghir and Kostenki 12 (fig. S26).

The admix graph models as follows:

Vestonice: 84% Sunghir + 16% Villabruna
El Miron: 46% Villabruna + 54% Goyet
Loschbour: 91% Villabruna + 9% Goyet

https://i.imgur.com/HKfLPZ7.png

[Sacrificed Ram]

Any G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,P,Q,R,S,T is also CF.

[Grab the Gauge]

This paper (2017) suggests an out of Asia scenario of modern human origins and links Y-DNA Haplogroups ABCD and E to Neanderthals:


http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/blog/2017/01/25/world-science-en-route-from-out-of-africa-to-out-of-america-first-stop-is-out-of-asia/


Under this schema, R, Q, I, T, etc would be modern human haplogroups. All from East Asia, maybe even North America.


Neanderthals (according to that paper, highly evolved archaic Africans) did indeed mate with modern human women:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/18/did-human-women-contribute-to-neanderthal-genomes-over-200000-years-ago

[Sacrificed Ram]

This paper (2017) suggests an out of Asia scenario of modern human origins and links Y-DNA Haplogroups ABCD and E to Neanderthals:


http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/blog/2017/01/25/world-science-en-route-from-out-of-africa-to-out-of-america-first-stop-is-out-of-asia/


Under this schema, R, Q, I, T, etc would be modern human haplogroups. All from East Asia, maybe even North America.


Neanderthals (according to that paper, highly evolved archaic Africans) did indeed mate with modern human women:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jul/18/did-human-women-contribute-to-neanderthal-genomes-over-200000-years-ago

Very useful, we are with a lack of toilet paper in my house.

R, Q, I, T are just subclades of A1b2 (A-P108). None Neanderthal haplogroup fits in Human haplogrops (they were already tested and comapared). Only a miraculous discovery can change this scenario.

[Dorian]

Could we say that these C' people were the first in Europe to breed with the"European"neanderthals thus creating the first hybrids? dates could also fit with this one? https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170945-Early-european-may-have-had-neanderthal-as-immediate-ancestor

[Longbowman]

Could we say that these C' people were the first in Europe to breed with the"European"neanderthals thus creating the first hybrids? dates could also fit with this one? https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?170945-Early-european-may-have-had-neanderthal-as-immediate-ancestor

Most Neanderthal admixture is thought to have occurred in the Levant considerably before the diffusion of Sapiens-type haplogroups into Europe.

[Rethel]

Most Neanderthal admixture is thought to have occurred in the Levant considerably before the diffusion of Sapiens-type haplogroups into Europe.

And you reject the thought, that everything is the fault of the Jews... :laugh:

[Longbowman]

And you reject the thought, that everything is the fault of the Jews... :laugh:

We all know the Jews came from Ur of the Chaldees, not the Levant. Read your Genesis, Rethel.

[Rethel]

We all know the Jews came from Ur of the Chaldees, not the Levant. Read your Genesis, Rethel.

Wow! You finally get it? When did you convert?

But not the judaists. Those from Ur contain maybe 6-7% of them.

[Longbowman]

Wow! You finally get it? When did you convert?

But not the judaists. Those from Ur contain maybe 6-7% of them.

The other 93-94% being from Harran I presume, in your fantasy world.

[AnabolicCat]

Gonna order 23andme this week , depending on how i feel.

[Rethel]

The other 93-94% being from Harran I presume, in your fantasy world.

1. One post above you claimed, that it is not fantasy.
2. I did not say anything about harran, you said it yourself, so, if you are basing
on such imaginary saying of mine, then you has to be on the fantasy Apricity.
3. Abraham had only one line of ancestors, one father and he himself had only one haplotype.
If you cannot bear this thought, this is your problem, so all private issues keep for yourself.

[Longbowman]

1. One post above you claimed, that it is not fantasy.
2. I did not say anything about harran, you said it yourself, so, if you are basing
on such imaginary saying of mine, then you has to be on the fantasy Apricity.
3. Abraham had only one line of ancestors, one father and he himself had only one haplotype.
If you cannot bear this thought, this is your problem, so all private issues keep for yourself.

On the post above, I was mocking you, rather obviously, you benighted idiot. As for 3), you know my thoughts on your 'hypotheses' with regards to the existence of Abraham, the identification of his possible lineage, your poorly conceived notion of 'tribe' and your understanding of the ethnogenesis of the Israelites (and your understanding of your own religious texts). Indeed, you know that nearly everyone mocks your ideas. Let's not get into another 'debate.' Further OT will be deleted.