Should your country continue the Vatican as if it were an independent nation?

[The Lawspeaker]

The Vatican is a rather interesting construction that hovers between a religious institution, a financial institution and a state and enjoys privileges in each way that ordinary states only can dream off.

No church has diplomatic envoys and it's own designated army or it's own state (one can say that Islam has it in the form of Saudi Arabia) or it's own diplomatic legations.

So .. what should we do. As a state and nation it does not fulfill the basic criteria for a democratic society and yet no official complaint has gone to the Vatican for human rights violations (it's assistance to suppressing popular uprisings in Latin America, it's induced genocide in Africa (by denying Africans the use of condoms) and it's widespread abuse of children (and it's attempts to suppress it) - let alone the allegations that they are into all sorts of shady deals (remember the murder of "Gods Banker" Roberto Calvi and large-scaled money laundering (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11380628)).

So.. with all kind of stuff going on: can your country as a "decent" nation continue to have the same kind of diplomatic relations with this entity that is both a religion, a criminal network and a state or should attempts be made to marginalise the Vatican and separate the Catholic church in your country from the Vatican ?

[Wyn]

More of this point scoring stuff?

[The Lawspeaker]

In my eyes the diplomatic legation of the Vatican should be expelled while criminal charges against the entire institution are pending. While we are at it there should be talks started between the Catholics in this country and the Old Catholic Church and the Protestant Church in order to see how the institutions can be integrated according to believes. It would create a kind of Church of the Netherlands (Catholics, Old Catholics and some Lutherans) where people can still believe in Christianity without being tied to a foreign clergy.

So if a bishop would approve of it he would remain the bishop but then of a new organisation, cut loose from Rome. How the dogma works is something they would have to fight out amongst themselves as it is not a place where the State should have a say. But some conditions will have to be set: there will be mandatory psychological screening for members of the clergy and celibacy will be thrown overboard in an attempt to make sure that there will be no repeat of the "Vatican sex crimes".

While we are at it: all diplomatic relations to all Muslim countries AND Israel should be frozen and it's citizens and diplomatic envoys ejected from this country as we cannot support regimes that are based on religion. Which would actually a nice little financial cutback as all those countries are those that are nicking us blind anyways.

[Groenewolf]

Wonder how fast this tread will be merged with this one (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19622).

[Tolleson]

:popcorn:

[Tyrrhenoi]

No -The Vatican is a criminal organisation and Catholicism should be banned by law- ?????

WTF? :eek: Who is going to feed the poor in this world then? The catholic church is the only in the world, to be effective on a large scale! :mad:

- Like any organisation, it is as (in)perfect as the persons who work within the organisation - we should not blaim all catholics for the mistakes who are made -

Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti

[The Lawspeaker]

No -The Vatican is a criminal organisation and Catholicism should be banned by law- ?????

WTF? :eek: Who is going to feed the poor in this world then? The catholic church is the only in the world, to be effective on a large scale! :mad:

Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti
Ooh really ? We can take care of our own poor here by means of a welfare state. As for the poor in Africa: we can't help them.

[Tyrrhenoi]

Ooh really ? We can take care of our own poor here by means of a welfare state. As for the poor in Africa: we can't help them.

They help in our country aswell - :( - with a contribution of 400 million - to be precise :)

Kerkelijke bijdrage aan samenleving minstens 400 miljoen euro

http://www.katholieknederland.nl/actualiteit/2010/detail_objectID701030_FJaar2010.html

[The Lawspeaker]

They help in our country aswell - :( - with a contribution of 400 million - to be precise :)

Kerkelijke bijdrage aan samenleving minstens 400 miljoen euro

http://www.katholieknederland.nl/actualiteit/2010/detail_objectID701030_FJaar2010.html
Yes and ? If we shouldn't spend all our damn money abroad we wouldn't need the 400 million in blood money. And the figures come from the Papists themselves so... that's like Pravda writing about life in the USSR.

[Megrez]

At least here in Brazil, since the last century the Catholic church has become a supporter of Marxist criminal organizations. Any political influence of the Catholic church must be cut.