Were Ancient Egyptians genetically closer to Modern Egyptians or Modern Ethiopians?

[Mingle]

Discuss.

[Mingle]

I hear a lot of people say they were darker-skinned compared to today and that Modern Egyptians have too much Arab influence. Ancient Egyptians certainly looked nothing like Nigerians, but Ethiopians...maybe?

[Mingle]

I think they were closer to Modern Ethiopians.

Interesting article

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

Picture drawn by Egyptians

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l90/KerguelenExile/00001.jpg

[Egyptian]

Ethiopians ? : )) no

The old Egyptian state used to change regularly in its size sometimes reached to south sudan and sometimes shrink to upper Egypt.

the Egyptians themselves were mixed due to immigrations , King sheshnak ruled Egypt and he was Amazigh from his father side when he reached Egypt by the order of Pharaoh Ibsamtek the first to enroll in his army with his fellows amazigh..

Hyksos Also were mixed with Egyptians during their occupation to North and Middle east (they even dressed like Egyptians and took their names , kinda like what Alexander the Great did when he visited Amoun temple to show the Egyptians that he is part of them also and he respects them).

Nubians took part in ruling Egypt after the united of Egypt and Nubia in one kingdom.. and so with Libyans and other ethnics.

the answer to your question is very hard to tell , you will find Egyptians from many races ( white with blue eyes , olive with green eyes , brown with brown eyes , black and so on)... the paintings on the temples shows many kings of Egypt from many races (black and brown) , Ramses himself from reserachs had red hair and so on..

Egyptians were Egyptians , anyone lived here and spoke our accent is Egyptian

[Egyptian]

that's a singer here called Ali Hajar .. does he look Ethiopian ? : )

https://www.mobtada.com/uploads/images/142608.jpg

[Egyptian]

Ramses
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0duJq7IAAAeRrS.jpg

[Mingle]

Ethiopians ? : )) no

The old Egyptian state used to change regularly in its size sometimes reached to south sudan and sometimes shrink to upper Egypt.

the Egyptians themselves were mixed due to immigrations , King sheshnak ruled Egypt and he was Amazigh from his father side when he reached Egypt by the order of Pharaoh Ibsamtek the first to enroll in his army with his fellows amazigh..

Hyksos Also were mixed with Egyptians during their occupation to North and Middle east (they even dressed like Egyptians and took their names , kinda like what Alexander the Great did when he visited Amoun temple to show the Egyptians that he is part of them also and he respects them).

Nubians took part in ruling Egypt after the united of Egypt and Nubia in one kingdom.. and so with Libyans and other ethnics.

the answer to your question is very hard to tell , you will find Egyptians from many races ( white with blue eyes , olive with green eyes , brown with brown eyes , black and so on)... the paintings on the temples shows many kings of Egypt from many races (black and brown) , Ramses himself from reserachs had red hair and so on..

Egyptians were Egyptians , anyone lived here and spoke our accent is Egyptian

Egyptians were diverse in how they looked due to being the region where Sub-Sahara, Asia, and Libya connected but their overall look seems to be more similar to Ethiopians based on ancient paintings.

http://www.experience-ancient-egypt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ancient-egyptian-culture.jpg

https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/question/aq/1400px-788px/crops-did-ancient-egyptians-grow_495a095ed723290e.jpg?domain=cx.aos.ask.com

http://www.onepiecetravel.com/upimg/080907/1_011315.jpg

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/3028.jpg?v=1431032638

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2015/03/history-lists-11-things-you-may-not-know-about-ancient-egypt-king-tut-may-have-been-killed-by-a-hippopotamus_IH020068_Corbis.jpg

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2015/03/history-lists-11-things-you-may-not-know-about-ancient-egypt-board-games_IH019941_Corbis-E.jpeg

[Mingle]

that's a singer here called Ali Hajar .. does he look Ethiopian ? : )

https://www.mobtada.com/uploads/images/142608.jpg

Yes he does kinda. Bet there are many Ethiopians with that look.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a6/8d/da/a68dda6295fe11fc7cfd0a5667ed6550.jpg

[Mingle]

Ramses
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0duJq7IAAAeRrS.jpg

Funny you post that pic. I found an Ethiopian that resembles him more.

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2nbynlt.jpg

[Egyptian]

Egyptians were diverse in how they looked due to being the region where Sub-Sahara, Asia, and Libya connected but their overall look seems to be more similar to Ethiopians based on ancient paintings.

http://www.experience-ancient-egypt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ancient-egyptian-culture.jpg

https://aos.iacpublishinglabs.com/question/aq/1400px-788px/crops-did-ancient-egyptians-grow_495a095ed723290e.jpg?domain=cx.aos.ask.com

http://www.onepiecetravel.com/upimg/080907/1_011315.jpg

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/3028.jpg?v=1431032638

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2015/03/history-lists-11-things-you-may-not-know-about-ancient-egypt-king-tut-may-have-been-killed-by-a-hippopotamus_IH020068_Corbis.jpg

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2015/03/history-lists-11-things-you-may-not-know-about-ancient-egypt-board-games_IH019941_Corbis-E.jpeg

we were not Ethiopians and we never were Ethiopians , we had good relation with them but we never were.

trying to prove your point with paintings , i can bring paintings too

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/0106b80ef2d24d99a7e25007cc30289c/mural-painting-pharao-pharaohs-queen-tomb-of-ramses-i-tomb-number-g9rh22.jpg

was the pharaoh a green guy from mars? what about the woman? the only black people were connected to egypt and ruled egypt were nubians.

[Egyptian]

Yes he does kinda. Bet there are many Ethiopians with that look.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a6/8d/da/a68dda6295fe11fc7cfd0a5667ed6550.jpg

he doesn't look like him at all

[Egyptian]

Funny you post that pic. I found an Ethiopian that resembles him more.

http://oi52.tinypic.com/2nbynlt.jpg

I guess you are ethiopian guy or African trying to spread the propaganda of black Egypt : )... oh please look at the nose or chin , Ramses had natural red hair he didn't dye it.

[Dominicanese]

depends, if you go back far enough (maybe 5,000 years ago or less)

they were probably like this (The Nubians) which both Ethiopians & Egyptians probably looked like

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0b/8f/be/0b8fbef226099614b88e4b660c70fb5a.jpg
https://www.oikoumene.org/en/press-centre/news/201cwe-need-support-for-the-people-of-south-sudan-and-just-peace201d/image
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/06/d2/10/06d2109495c6d554c369c96e9f37263b.jpg

^^ but more advanced ^^ or maybe browned skinned or both

[Shah-Jehan]

Modern Egyptians of course.

[Egyptian]

depends, if you go back far enough (maybe 5,000 years ago or less)

they were probably like this (The Nubians) which both Ethiopians & Egyptians probably looked like

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0b/8f/be/0b8fbef226099614b88e4b660c70fb5a.jpg
https://www.oikoumene.org/en/press-centre/news/201cwe-need-support-for-the-people-of-south-sudan-and-just-peace201d/image
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/06/d2/10/06d2109495c6d554c369c96e9f37263b.jpg

^^ but more advanced ^^ or maybe browned skinned or both

Nubians are like that

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/3e2996515f88408a90cd9c03760b712a/egyptian-nubians-gather-at-the-alexandria-railway-station-to-travel-c3jkjt.jpg

[Mingle]

we were not Ethiopians and we never were Ethiopians , we had good relation with them but we never were.

trying to prove your point with paintings , i can bring paintings too

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/0106b80ef2d24d99a7e25007cc30289c/mural-painting-pharao-pharaohs-queen-tomb-of-ramses-i-tomb-number-g9rh22.jpg

was the pharaoh a green guy from mars? what about the woman? the only black people were connected to egypt and ruled egypt were nubians.

I didn't say the Ancient Egyptians WERE Ethiopians but they GENETICALLY MORE SIMILAR to Ethiopians than to Modern Egyptians who are heavily mixed with people from Asia.

I don't think the paintings are the by all means all, but they should be taken into account to some degree. Why are most Egyptians dark skinned in the paintings?

[Mingle]

depends, if you go back far enough (maybe 5,000 years ago or less)

they were probably like this (The Nubians) which both Ethiopians & Egyptians probably looked like

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0b/8f/be/0b8fbef226099614b88e4b660c70fb5a.jpg
https://www.oikoumene.org/en/press-centre/news/201cwe-need-support-for-the-people-of-south-sudan-and-just-peace201d/image
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/06/d2/10/06d2109495c6d554c369c96e9f37263b.jpg

^^ but more advanced ^^ or maybe browned skinned or both

Lol, no they weren't. The paintings clearly distinguish between Sub-Saharans (Nubians) and Egyptians. And those are definitely not Nubians.

[Pennywise]

They were closer to the Pashtun master race.

[Mingle]

I guess you are ethiopian guy or African trying to spread the propaganda of black Egypt : )... oh please look at the nose or chin , Ramses had natural red hair he didn't dye it.

I'm not African. Those type of people (i.e. Dominacanese) try to claim Ancient Egyptians looked similar to Nigerians. I used to believe in the same theory as you, my views change frequently.

You cannot deny that there was a huge wave of migration from Asia to Africa when the Arabs started Islamicizing the place. There were also a lot of Christian Europeans that came before that. These definitely would have altered the genetic makeup. The paintings show they looked similar to Ethiopians. There is no other piece of work that talks about their skin color other than paintings. The fossils you have posted so far do not look distinctly Modern Egyptian.

The hair color is irrelevant. Look at the high cheekbones, chin, and cranial structure.

[Myanthropologies]

Why have these questions still not been answered? I keep hearing a lot of debate over what the ancient egyptians were and I thought the answer would have been easily accessible.

From my point of view, ancient egyptians were diverse. Some might have been South Europeans basically, othes were basically arab, and some more like Ethiopians and Nubians.

[Mingle]

Why have these questions still not been answered? I keep hearing a lot of debate over what the ancient egyptians were and I thought the answer would have been easily accessible.

From my point of view, ancient egyptians were diverse. Some might have been South Europeans basically, othes were basically arab, and some more like Ethiopians and Nubians.

Its obvious they were diverse. They're even diverse today, but one racial type was the dominant/majority.

[Berahthraban]

Why have these questions still not been answered? I keep hearing a lot of debate over what the ancient egyptians were and I thought the answer would have been easily accessible.

From my point of view, ancient egyptians were diverse. Some might have been South Europeans basically, othes were basically arab, and some more like Ethiopians and Nubians.

I'm also frustrated with not having a clear answer :D I assume there was a pretty big Northern/Southern divide. With the Northern part being like North Africans and/or Arabs, and the Southern part more like Horners. When you say some could have been basically Southern European, I guess you mean that they were North Africans without SSA, aka like Sardinians but with less WHG.

[Myanthropologies]

Its obvious they were diverse. They're even diverse today, but one racial type was the dominant/majority.

Yeah that's the tricky part. What's even more odd to me is that the Libyan was pretty white looking in the depiction. I feel like coastal North Africa used to be more European like, whereas the other parts of it were more Ethiopian like.

[Myanthropologies]

I'm also frustrated with not having a clear answer :D I assume there was a pretty big Northern/Southern divide. With the Northern part being like North Africans and/or Arabs, and the Southern part more like Horners. When you say some could have been basically Southern European, you mean that they were North Africans without SSA, aka like Sardinians but with less WHG.

Yeah, that. But I also believe some Greeks who came over might have assimilated into Egyptian culture and became "Egyptian," too. But I feel the same way. The northern part was probably either Levantine/Sardinian (with less WHG)/or Arab like, while the non coastal part was more Horner like.

[Mingle]

Ramses II charging at Nubians:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Ramses_II_charging_Nubians.jpg

The image makes a very clear distinction between Egyptians and Nubians but the Egyptians are still fairly dark.

[LoLeL]

Both of them.

[LoLeL]

Some Somalis are very similar to ancient Egyptian paintings. Wadaad (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?7176) and Iman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(model)) are good examples. I'm serious about this, because I think Horners are related to AEs, more or less.

[Mingle]

Some Somalis are very similar to ancient Egyptian paintings. Wadaad (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?7176) and Iman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(model)) are good examples. I'm serious about this, because I think Horners are related to AEs, more or less.

Yeah, the debate has always been whether they were Black (Sub-Saharan) or not, but rarely does anybody bother to ponder whether they could have been like Horners or not. I think the paintings really provide a good glimpse at what they could have looked like. Of course, Black people and MENA people would have existed in Egypt back then, but it seems like they were a minority.

[johen]

Was there any relation between ANE and Egyptian Royals?:

Reuters - September 24, 2007Ancient Mexicans and Egyptians who never met and lived centuries and thousands of miles apart both worshiped feathered-serpent deities, built pyramids and developed a 365-day calendar, a new exhibition shows. Billed as the world's largest temporary archeological showcase, Mexican archeologists have brought treasures from ancient Egypt to display alongside the great indigenous civilizations of Mexico for the first time.The exhibition, which boasts a five-tonne, 3,000-year-old sculpture of Egyptian pharaoh Ramses II and stone carvings from Mexican pyramid Chichen Itza, aims to show many of the similarities of two complex worlds both conquered by Europeans in invasions 1,500 years apart. "There are huge cultural parallels between ancient Egypt and Mexico in religion, astronomy, architecture and the arts. They deserve to be appreciated together," said exhibition organizer Gina Ulloa, who spent almost three years preparing the 35,520 square-feet (3,300 meter-square) display.The exhibition, which opened at the weekend in the northern Mexican city of Monterrey, shows how Mexican civilizations worshiped the feathered snake god Quetzalcoatl from about 1,200 BC to 1521, when the Spanish conquered the Aztecs.From 3,000 BC onward Egyptians often portrayed their gods, including the Goddess of the Pharaohs Isis, in art and sculpture as serpents with wings or feathers. The feathered serpent and the serpent alongside a deity signifies the duality of human existence, at once in touch with water and earth, the serpent, and the heavens, the feathers of a bird," said Ulloa. Egyptian sculptures at the exhibition -- flown to Mexico from ancient temples along the Nile and from museums in Cairo, Luxor and Alexandria - show how Isis' son Horus was often represented with winged arms and accompanied by serpents. Cleopatra, the last Egyptian queen before the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC, saw herself as Isis and wore a gold serpent in her headpiece.Uncanny SimilaritiesIn the arts, Mexico's earliest civilization, the Olmecs, echo Egypt's finest sculptures. Olmec artists carved large man-jaguar warriors that are similar to the Egyptian sphinxes on display showing lions with the heads of gods or kings. The seated statue of an Egyptian scribe carved between 2465 and 2323 BC shows stonework and attention to detail that parallels a seated stone sculpture of an Olmec lord. There is no evidence the Olmecs and Egyptians ever met.Shared traits run to architecture, with Egyptians building pyramids as royal tombs and the Mayans and Aztecs following suit with pyramids as places of sacrifice to the gods. While there is no room for pyramids at the exhibition -- part of the Universal Forum of Cultures, an international cultural festival held in Barcelona in 2004 -- organizers say it is the first time many of pieces have left Egypt. They include entire archways from Nile temples, a bracelet worn by Ramses II and sarcophagi used by the pharaohs. Mexico has also brought together Aztec, Mayan and Olmec pieces from across the country.

[Dianatomia]

There is no evidence that Egyptians have changed substantially. Examples of paintings mean little. It is non-scientific. So I would say that an element of Afrocentrism is involved here.

[johen]

Was there any relation between ANE and Egyptian Royals?:

Reuters - September 24, 2007Ancient Mexicans and Egyptians who never met and lived centuries and thousands of miles apart both worshiped feathered-serpent deities, built pyramids and developed a 365-day calendar, a new exhibition shows. Billed as the world's largest temporary archeological showcase, Mexican archeologists have brought treasures from ancient Egypt to display alongside the great indigenous civilizations of Mexico for the first time.The exhibition, which boasts a five-tonne, 3,000-year-old sculpture of Egyptian pharaoh Ramses II and stone carvings from Mexican pyramid Chichen Itza, aims to show many of the similarities of two complex worlds both conquered by Europeans in invasions 1,500 years apart. "There are huge cultural parallels between ancient Egypt and Mexico in religion, astronomy, architecture and the arts. They deserve to be appreciated together," said exhibition organizer Gina Ulloa, who spent almost three years preparing the 35,520 square-feet (3,300 meter-square) display.The exhibition, which opened at the weekend in the northern Mexican city of Monterrey, shows how Mexican civilizations worshiped the feathered snake god Quetzalcoatl from about 1,200 BC to 1521, when the Spanish conquered the Aztecs.From 3,000 BC onward Egyptians often portrayed their gods, including the Goddess of the Pharaohs Isis, in art and sculpture as serpents with wings or feathers. The feathered serpent and the serpent alongside a deity signifies the duality of human existence, at once in touch with water and earth, the serpent, and the heavens, the feathers of a bird," said Ulloa. Egyptian sculptures at the exhibition -- flown to Mexico from ancient temples along the Nile and from museums in Cairo, Luxor and Alexandria - show how Isis' son Horus was often represented with winged arms and accompanied by serpents. Cleopatra, the last Egyptian queen before the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC, saw herself as Isis and wore a gold serpent in her headpiece.Uncanny SimilaritiesIn the arts, Mexico's earliest civilization, the Olmecs, echo Egypt's finest sculptures. Olmec artists carved large man-jaguar warriors that are similar to the Egyptian sphinxes on display showing lions with the heads of gods or kings. The seated statue of an Egyptian scribe carved between 2465 and 2323 BC shows stonework and attention to detail that parallels a seated stone sculpture of an Olmec lord. There is no evidence the Olmecs and Egyptians ever met.Shared traits run to architecture, with Egyptians building pyramids as royal tombs and the Mayans and Aztecs following suit with pyramids as places of sacrifice to the gods. While there is no room for pyramids at the exhibition -- part of the Universal Forum of Cultures, an international cultural festival held in Barcelona in 2004 -- organizers say it is the first time many of pieces have left Egypt. They include entire archways from Nile temples, a bracelet worn by Ramses II and sarcophagi used by the pharaohs. Mexico has also brought together Aztec, Mayan and Olmec pieces from across the country.


Was the dead person buried in ANE's 'R or Q position' or Natufian's 'E position'?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/23/23/3AB3C1C100000578-3965046-image-a-23_1479944499163.jpg

'Lost city of the tomb builders' uncovered in Egypt: 7,000 year old'

'Lost city of the tomb builders' uncovered in Egypt: 7,000 year old First Dynasty find contains cemetery with graves 'bigger than a kings' to show off construction skillsIts discovery may yield new insights on Abydos, one of the oldest cities in Ancient Egypt, the ministry said in a statement.Experts say Abydos was Egypt's capital towards the end of the Predynastic Period and during the rule of the first four dynasties.The discovery was made 400 metres away from the temple of Seti I, a New Kingdom period memorial across the Nile from present day Luxor.Archaeologists have so far uncovered huts, pottery remains and iron tools as well as 15 huge graves, some of which were larger than the graves of kings in Abydos, the ministry said in a statement.'The size of the graves discovered in the cemetery is larger in some instances than royal graves in Abydos dating back to the First Dynasty, which proves the importance of the people buried there and their high social standing during this early era of ancient Egyptian history,' the ministry said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...years-old.html

[johen]

Could the below nose come from the people in hot area?

http://beforeitsnews.com/mediadrop/uploads/2014/08/4ccd4b83903e552364d421306da3a0fdf1d48808.jpg

ANE' NOSE
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Olmec/Maya_relief.jpg

[Mens-Sarda]

we were not Ethiopians and we never were Ethiopians , we had good relation with them but we never were.

trying to prove your point with paintings , i can bring paintings too

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/0106b80ef2d24d99a7e25007cc30289c/mural-painting-pharao-pharaohs-queen-tomb-of-ramses-i-tomb-number-g9rh22.jpg

was the pharaoh a green guy from mars? what about the woman? the only black people were connected to egypt and ruled egypt were nubians.

the green "guy" is Osiris, god of the afterworld, the other 3 are the god Horus, Ramses and Ramses' son? they are accompanying the deceased Nefertari before Osiris

noble women were usually depicted with lighter skin because they spent their life in the palace, they didn't work outdoor, so they didn't tan

[KMack]

the green "guy" is Osiris, god of the afterworld, the other 3 are the god Horus, Ramses and Ramses' son? they are accompanying the deceased Nefertari before Osiris

noble women were usually depicted with lighter skin because they spent their life in the palace, they didn't work outdoor, so they didn't tan

I was wondering about that. So many ancient painting with not too much clothing, in the sun, one will a shade or 2 darker.

[johen]

Does someone know the head size of ancient Egyptian comparing to modern Egyptian?
I think ancient civilization creators might have big heads, even if their genes are similar to modern ones.

seems like modern greek people's head size is different from Greek bronze similar to cromag-non.
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/1/242/F2.large.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Brain_Size_Map.png

[Numidia]

It is said that ancient egypt was built by 4 ethnicities : amazigh, nubians, kushites, canaanites

[Egyptian]

It is said that ancient egypt was built by 4 ethnicities : amazigh, nubians, kushites, canaanites

Amaizgh came during the rule of Ibsmatek the first to enroll in his army and they lived in Siwa .. Sheshnak was the first Amazigh to rule Egypt ( Amazigh father and Egyptian mother).

[EL_BARBARO]

Masri. No Egyptians anymore.

[Numidia]

Amaizgh came during the rule of Ibsmatek the first to enroll in his army and they lived in Siwa .. Sheshnak was the first Amazigh to rule Egypt ( Amazigh father and Egyptian mother).

I mean ancient egyptians were racially related to this 4 groups

[Egyptian]

I mean ancient egyptians were racially related to this 4 groups

you are right but Amazigh didn't reach Egypt until the era of Ibsamtek.

[EL_BARBARO]

present inhabitants of Misr ain't Egyptians but simple and common Masri.

nothing to do with egyptians.

[Mingle]

you are right but Amazigh didn't reach Egypt until the era of Ibsamtek.

Who is that? I tried googling that name but no results came up.

[Danaan]

That's off topic, the modern Ethiopians don't have anything to do with the 'Ethiopians' mentioned by Herodotus which were imo in modern-day Sudan and were Nilotic.

On topic, I cannot answer. I think they could have been darker but I am unsure. I'm not sure if there were massive Arab migrations in N. Africa either.

Also, I personally believe that Arabs descend from 'Phoenicians' (which was also a Greek exonym). I am aware of the counter-arguments.

[Mingle]

That's off topic, the modern Ethiopians don't have anything to do with the 'Ethiopians' mentioned by Herodotus which were imo in modern-day Sudan and were Nilotic.

On topic, I cannot answer. I think they could have been darker but I am unsure. I'm not sure if there were massive Arab migrations in N. Africa either.

Also, I personally believe that Arabs descend from 'Phoenicians' (which was also a Greek exonym). I am aware of the counter-arguments.

Yes, the definition of Ethiopia changed since then. Herodotus referred to all lands south of the first cataract (Aswan, Egypt) as Ethiopia rather than to any specific region (e.g. Nubia). In this context, I'm referring to Horners when I say Ethiopian.

Proto-Semitic spread from Phoenicia to Arabia but that doesn't mean Arabs are descended from Phoenicians.

[Sikeliot]

Ethiopians today are what the Bible would have called Abyssinians (Habesha). "Ethiopian" in the Bible meant the lands in deep central Africa near southern Sudan, basically Nilotic and Bantu people.

[XenophobicPrussian]

You have to specify the period. There are clearly different periods, with different depictions.

The earlier periods look less diverse, the later ones look more diverse(and then even have confirmed Nubian rulers).

I wouldn't even be surprised if the early ancient Egyptians were the exact same people as neolithic Levantines, which would put them closest to Libyan Jews or bronze age Levantines which would put them closest to modern Levant people. It's possible the amount of SSA Egyptians had was there since the start, but there's no reason to rule out most of it coming later as there are many black migrations to this region later even up to the medieval era.

[Egyptian]

Who is that? I tried googling that name but no results came up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psamtik_I

[Mingle]

Ethiopians today are what the Bible would have called Abyssinians (Habesha). "Ethiopian" in the Bible meant the lands in deep central Africa near southern Sudan, basically Nilotic and Bantu people.

Well I'm talking about the modern definition of Ethiopian i.e. Horners.


You have to specify the period. There are clearly different periods, with different depictions.

The earlier periods look less diverse, the later ones look more diverse(and then even have confirmed Nubian rulers).

I wouldn't even be surprised if the early ancient Egyptians were the exact same people as neolithic Levantines, which would put them closest to Libyan Jews or bronze age Levantines which would put them closest to modern Levant people. It's possible the amount of SSA Egyptians had was there since the start, but there's no reason to rule out most of it coming later as there are many black migrations to this region later even up to the medieval era.

The question is pretty general but is mainly referring to the Bronze Age and Iron Age period. I don't think the Bronze Age and Iron Age Egyptians were racially different people.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

they were closer to horners but then arabs and Europeans moved in. Its why Egyptians have Euro input and identify as arabs.

[blogen]

The ancient Egyptians were the direct ancestors of the modern Egyptians. The Arab influx were totally insignificant.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

http://i42.tinypic.com/a12t8x.jpg

[Purohit ji]

Aren't there any ancient Egyptian dna samples?

[arkas]

I think SOME of them had a little negroid influence, but not as much as Ethiopians. From my understanding some Ancient Egyptian mummy dna had been extracted and was found to be most closely related to Levantines.

I do believe Ancient Egyptian dna lives on in some modern day Egyptians though, not sure how much though. I do not believe the population was completely wiped out.

[TheOldNorth]

most of them where 100% Caucasoid in blood, don't let the afro-centrist who take credit for all of north africa's accomplishments deceive you

[TheOldNorth]

Aren't there any ancient Egyptian dna samples?

there are, and they show up closest to modern copts and other native north Africans of mostly Caucasoid descent like their mid-eastern neighbors

[Yorgo]

They are the ancestors of the native Christian Copts and no one else.

[Yorgo]

The ancient Egyptians were the direct ancestors of the modern Egyptians. The Arab influx were totally insignificant.

Not true at all. The barbaric and violent Muslim 'Egyptians' descend from the Arabian colonizers and have nothing to do with the noble and native Copts, the only actual descendants of the ancient Egyptians.

[Adamm]

Not true at all. The barbaric and violent Muslim 'Egyptians' descend from the Arabian colonizers and have nothing to do with the noble and native Copts, the only actual descendants of the ancient Egyptians.

JK2134 Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt 776-569 BC, kit number - Z459747:


Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 28.78
Armenian -
Basque 1.04
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 21.93
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 0.62
Indo-Chinese 0.49
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.96
North_African 7.39
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 6.50
Oceanian 0.32
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 5.97

[blogen]

Not true at all. The barbaric and violent Muslim 'Egyptians' descend from the Arabian colonizers and have nothing to do with the noble and native Copts, the only actual descendants of the ancient Egyptians.

Lunatic legends. Egyptian = islamized Copt. And "noble"... Egyp was the scum-province of the ancient Rkman empire. Pogroms, darkness and eternal hate.

[Mingle]

I was uninformed when I made this thread. They are genetically closest to modern Egyptians (especially Copts).

[SharpFork]

JK2134 Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt 776-569 BC, kit number - Z459747:


Eurogenes K36:

Do you have the k13 version with oracle? Might help answering the question.

[Abdelnour]

JK2134 Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt 776-569 BC, kit number - Z459747:


Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 28.78
Armenian -
Basque 1.04
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 21.93
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 0.62
Indo-Chinese 0.49
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.96
North_African 7.39
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 6.50
Oceanian 0.32
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 5.97

Weird, I am only 8.87 Arabian. I thought Levantines were more semitic than Egyptians?

[Numidia]

I was uninformed when I made this thread. They are genetically closest to modern Egyptians (especially Copts).

It's strange people still speculate about ancient egyptians ancestry they are the oldest afroastiacs people


Weird, I am only 8.87 Arabian. I thought Levantines were more semitic than Egyptians?

Arabian means bedouins not semitic christians levantines seems to be very brainwashed by arabization

[Abdelnour]

Arabian means bedouins not semitic christians levantines seems to be very brainwashed by arabization

What do you mean by that?

Most Christians reject Arabization for instance.

And if Arabian genetic component in K36 isn't semitic, what is?

[pulstar]

A tad bit more northern shifted than Modern Egyptians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_history_of_Egypt#2017_DNA_study):

A study published in 2017 described the extraction and analysis of DNA from 151 mummified ancient Egyptian individuals, whose remains were recovered from Abusir el-Meleq in Middle Egypt. Obtaining well-preserved, uncontaminated DNA from mummies has been a problem for the field of archaeogenetics and these samples provided "the first reliable data set obtained from ancient Egyptians using high-throughput DNA sequencing methods". The specimens were living in a period stretching from the late New Kingdom to the Roman era (1388 BCE–426 CE). Complete mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences were obtained for 90 of the mummies and were compared with each other and with several other ancient and modern datasets. The scientists found that the ancient Egyptian individuals in their own dataset possessed highly similar mitochondrial profiles throughout the examined period. Modern Egyptians generally shared this maternal haplogroup pattern, but also carried more Sub-Saharan African clades. However, analysis of the mummies' mtDNA haplogroups found that they shared greater mitochondrial affinities with modern populations from the Near East and the Levant compared to modern Egyptians. Additionally, three of the ancient Egyptian individuals were analysed for Y-DNA, two were assigned to the Middle-Eastern haplogroup J and one to haplogroup E1b1b1 common in North Africa. The researchers cautioned that the affinities of the examined ancient Egyptian specimens may not be representative of those of all ancient Egyptians since they were from a single archaeological site.[10]

The study was able to measure the mitochondrial DNA of 90 individuals, and it showed that the mitochondrial DNA composition of Egyptian mummies has shown a high level of affinity with the DNA of the populations of the Near East.[11][12] A shared drift and mixture analysis of the DNA of these ancient Egyptian mummies shows that the connection is strongest with ancient populations from the Levant, the Near East and Anatolia, and to a lesser extent modern populations from the Near East and the Levant.[12] In particular the study finds "that ancient Egyptians are most closely related to Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in the Levant, as well as to Neolithic Anatolian and European populations".[13]

Genome-wide data could only be successfully extracted from three of these individuals. Of these three, the Y-chromosome haplogroups of two individuals could be assigned to the Middle-Eastern haplogroup J, and one to haplogroup E1b1b1 common in North Africa. The absolute estimates of sub-Saharan African ancestry in these three individuals ranged from 6 to 15%, which is significantly lower than the level of sub-Saharan African ancestry in the modern Egyptians from Abusir, who "range from 14 to 21%."( When using East African admixed population as reference) The study's authors cautioned that the mummies may be unrepresentative of the Ancient Egyptian population as a whole, since they were recovered from the northern part of Egypt.[14]

Overall the mummies studied were closer genetically to Near Eastern people than the modern Egyptian population, which has a greater proportion of genes coming from sub-Saharan Africa after the Roman period.[11][12]

The data suggest a high level of genetic interaction with the Near East since ancient times, probably going back to Prehistoric Egypt: "Our data seem to indicate close admixture and affinity at a much earlier date, which is unsurprising given the long and complex connections between Egypt and the Middle East. These connections date back to Prehistory and occurred at a variety of scales, including overland and maritime commerce, diplomacy, immigration, invasion and deportation"[15][12]

Blood typing and ancient DNA sampling on Egyptian mummies is scant. However, blood typing of Dynastic period mummies found their ABO frequencies to be most similar to that of modern Egyptians.[16]

[Imperator Biff]

It depends on which period. Old/Middle kingdom Egyptians were much more natufian admixed and would’ve been closest to contemporary bedouins, saudis, yemenis etc basically sandniggers.
Post Hyksos invasion new kingdom Egyptians form the base of modern Egyptian dna, more so in Copts than Sunnis.
They got absolutely raped by hordes of ratfaced semites.
Ancestors of Sunni Egyptians got blacked raping slaves. New kingdom Egyptians would’ve resembled something like Palestinians. They have fuck all Arab ancestry. Even Tunisians have a lot more.

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.8080% / 0.01808043
61.2 EGY_Late_Period
20.8 Assyrian
11.8 Dinka
6.2 BedouinB

[Hajimurad]

It depends on which period. Old/Middle kingdom Egyptians were much more natufian admixed and would’ve been closest to contemporary bedouins, saudis, yemenis etc basically sandniggers.
Post Hyksos invasion new kingdom Egyptians form the base of modern Egyptian dna, more so in Copts than Sunnis.
They got absolutely raped by hordes of ratfaced semites.
Ancestors of Sunni Egyptians got blacked raping slaves. New kingdom Egyptians would’ve resembled something like Palestinians. They have fuck all Arab ancestry. Even Tunisians have a lot more.

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.8080% / 0.01808043
61.2 EGY_Late_Period
20.8 Assyrian
11.8 Dinka
6.2 BedouinB

How Hyksos changed New Kingdom Egyptians, if language, culture and anthropology of natives remained unchanged? Even Arabs, who imposed their language and religion, weren't able to change their race. Academic anthropologists and geneticists prove continuity of Egyptians since Old kingdom. Majority of Egyptians are Fallah peasants, who practice cross-cousin marriages and doesn't mix with foreigners. Only those, who live in cities, may be descended from foreigners.

[Hajimurad]

bump

[Numidia]

What do you mean by that?

Most Christians reject Arabization for instance.

And if Arabian genetic component in K36 isn't semitic, what is?

Like I wrote it's bedouins semitic is not a component
Panarabism in Levant was christians idea

[SharpFork]

How Hyksos changed New Kingdom Egyptians, if language, culture and anthropology of natives remained unchanged? Even Arabs, who imposed their language and religion, weren't able to change their race. Academic anthropologists and geneticists prove continuity of Egyptians since Old kingdom. Majority of Egyptians are Fallah peasants, who practice cross-cousin marriages and doesn't mix with foreigners. Only those, who live in cities, may be descended from foreigners.

So what does it matter if cousin marriages are a thing? Are you going to argue everyone that has such practices doesn't mix all with anyone else? In any case how would you address the global25 models that shows 38.8% foreign admixture since times?


It depends on which period. Old/Middle kingdom Egyptians were much more natufian admixed and would’ve been closest to contemporary bedouins, saudis, yemenis etc basically sandniggers.
Post Hyksos invasion new kingdom Egyptians form the base of modern Egyptian dna, more so in Copts than Sunnis.
They got absolutely raped by hordes of ratfaced semites.
Ancestors of Sunni Egyptians got blacked raping slaves. New kingdom Egyptians would’ve resembled something like Palestinians. They have fuck all Arab ancestry. Even Tunisians have a lot more.

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.8080% / 0.01808043
61.2 EGY_Late_Period
20.8 Assyrian
11.8 Dinka
6.2 BedouinB
I wouldn't call Assyrians "semites" as you seem to imply, if it's modern samples then their genetics are very different from Arabians so I'm not sure if the Arab conquest can be directly blamed. Where are those Egyptian classical samples from?

[Trouble]

Weird, I am only 8.87 Arabian. I thought Levantines were more semitic than Egyptians?

Modern levantines are less arab shifted than ancient Egyptians, but more than modern ones.

[Yorgo]

JK2134 Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt 776-569 BC, kit number - Z459747:


Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 28.78
Armenian -
Basque 1.04
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 21.93
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 0.62
Indo-Chinese 0.49
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.96
North_African 7.39
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 6.50
Oceanian 0.32
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 5.97

What's that supposed to mean? Egyptians are one of the oldest Afro-asiatic groups and obviously share ancestry with all other Afro-asiatic populations. Arabs, on the other hand, are the last semitic population that emerged, most likely from the ancient Sinai Bedouins.

[Yorgo]

Lunatic legends. Egyptian = islamized Copt. And "noble"... Egyp was the scum-province of the ancient Rkman empire. Pogroms, darkness and eternal hate.

It was actually the 2nd richest province, only after Italy itself.

[Yorgo]

Like I wrote it's bedouins semitic is not a component
Panarabism in Levant was christians idea


Not it wasn't? Christians were gradually Arabized by force. If you mean the recent Bathist ideology, some Christians subscribed to it because they wrongly assumed if they united with Muslims under one ethnicity they would be spared from pan-Islamism. The thing is, Muslims never considered Christians to be the same ethnicity/people as them.

[Adamm]

Not it wasn't? Christians were gradually Arabized by force. If you mean the recent Bathist ideology, some Christians subscribed to it because they wrongly assumed if they united with Muslims under one ethnicity they would be spared from pan-Islamism. The thing is, Muslims never considered Christians to be the same ethnicity/people as them.

All race identity politics in Middle East is basically from Christians, SSNP, Baathism, PanArabism = mostly Christian invention, (anton sedah, michel afleq etc), they created these ideologies because they were minorities and they were afraid of Islam.

[JamesBond007]

I think they were closer to Modern Ethiopians.

Interesting article

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

Picture drawn by Egyptians

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l90/KerguelenExile/00001.jpg

You are mentally deficient. Genetically ancient Egyptians were closest to modern day Copts not Ethiopian low IQ niggers.

[Mingle]

You are mentally deficient. Genetically ancient Egyptians were closest to modern day Copts not Ethiopian low IQ niggers.


I was uninformed when I made this thread. They are genetically closest to modern Egyptians (especially Copts).