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View Full Version : Italians from Calabria: Not as Greek as you'd think.



Sikeliot
11-28-2016, 03:50 PM
There is a misconception that Calabrese are long-lost ancient Greeks. This is not supported by autosomal DNA, but it is likely like all southern Italians they have some. Most of the Greek DNA is more likely in southeast Sicily (Ragusa, Syracuse, Enna) and Apulia.

Here are some Calabrese on two calculators. They do not appear very Greek at all to me. They are close only to Cretans, Anatolian Greeks, and Aegean islanders but not at all to mainlanders. If you propose Greeks are the same today as always and not Slavicized, it is impossible for Calabrese to be Greeks.

If anything, most Greeks there were Hellenized Armenians, Syrians, and Anatolian natives. Most of these are either closer to Cypriots or intermediate, and even more exotic than 90% of Sicilians.

Person 1:

MDLP K23:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.94
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.36
3 Near_East 13.74
4 North_African 7.84
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.07
6 South_Central_Asian 6.88
7 East_African 1.69


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French_Jew @ 3.520671
2 Sephardic_Jew @ 3.553527
3 Turk_Jew @ 3.789899
4 Italian_Jew @ 4.243606
5 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 5.246475
6 Sicilian_East @ 5.978266
7 Maltese @ 6.503642
8 Moroccan_Jew @ 6.735085
9 Cretan @ 7.014207
10 Sicilian_West @ 7.049510
11 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 7.216925
12 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 7.274229
13 Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.706204
14 Greek_Smyrna @ 8.655463
15 Romanian_Jew @ 8.980978
16 Sicilian_Center @ 9.021141
17 Greek_Islands @ 9.261754
18 Syrian_Jew @ 9.732056
19 Ashkenazi @ 9.761692
20 Italian_South @ 10.113937

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cretan +50% Moroccan_Jew @ 2.550001

Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 26.95
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 23.11
3 NATUFIAN 20.29
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 18.09
5 SHG_WHG 4.01
6 EHG 3.04
7 SE_ASIAN 2.66
8 SUB_SAHARAN 1.57
9 PAPUAN 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Moroccan 4.61
2 Cypriot 6.98
3 Jew_Tunisian 9.38
4 Jew_Libyan 9.85
5 Jew_Ashkenazi 10
6 Sicilian 10.1
7 Lebanese 12.12
8 Italian_South 13.49
9 Turkish_Adana 13.83
10 Turkish 13.97
11 Turkish_Kayseri 14.25
12 Turkish_Istanbul 14.52
13 Greek 14.85
14 Druze 15.25
15 Jordanian 15.91
16 Syrian 16.3
17 Turkish_Aydin 16.39
18 Turkish_Balekesir 16.76
19 Jew_iraqi 17.32
20 Albanian 17.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.8% Jew_Moroccan + 8.2% Anatolia_ChL @ 2.53
2 90.3% Jew_Moroccan + 9.7% Armenia_ChL @ 2.58
3 91.5% Jew_Moroccan + 8.5% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.07
4 95.9% Jew_Moroccan + 4.1% Anatolia_N @ 3.35
5 95.5% Jew_Moroccan + 4.5% Europe_EN @ 3.42
6 70.8% Lebanese + 29.2% Sardinian @ 3.59
7 95.5% Jew_Moroccan + 4.5% Europe_MNChL @ 3.74
8 93.9% Jew_Moroccan + 6.1% Stuttgart @ 3.8
9 94.3% Jew_Moroccan + 5.7% Iran_recent @ 3.87
10 95.9% Jew_Moroccan + 4.1% Iran_ChL @ 3.92
11 63.9% Syrian + 36.1% Sardinian @ 3.93
12 95.4% Jew_Moroccan + 4.6% Steppe_IA @ 4.05
13 65.6% Druze + 34.4% Sardinian @ 4.16
14 75.1% Jew_Moroccan + 24.9% Cypriot @ 4.23
15 90% Jew_Moroccan + 10% Turkish_Balekesir @ 4.24
16 94.4% Jew_Moroccan + 5.6% Sardinian @ 4.3
17 89.1% Jew_Moroccan + 10.9% Turkish @ 4.31
18 91.4% Jew_Moroccan + 8.6% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.32
19 98.5% Jew_Moroccan + 1.5% Atayal @ 4.35
20 98.5% Jew_Moroccan + 1.5% Ami @ 4.35


Person 2:

MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 38.45
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.29
3 Near_East 12.55
4 South_Central_Asian 9.70
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 9.60
6 North_African 6.18
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.23


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan @ 4.469643
2 Sicilian_East @ 5.687243
3 French_Jew @ 5.956116
4 Sicilian_West @ 6.035543
5 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 6.052436
6 Greek_Smyrna @ 6.172047
7 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 6.671970
8 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 7.037687
9 Sephardic_Jew @ 7.203924
10 Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.743039
11 Turk_Jew @ 7.809208
12 Romanian_Jew @ 8.078727
13 Italian_Jew @ 8.080338
14 Maltese @ 8.114021
15 Greek_Islands @ 8.532995
16 Italian_South @ 8.622560
17 Ashkenazi @ 8.712570
18 Sicilian_Center @ 9.260094
19 Greek_Athens @ 9.706617
20 Greek @ 10.477425

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Smyrna +50% Sicilian_West @ 2.847381


Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 30.85
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.15
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 19.21
4 NATUFIAN 14.6
5 EHG 6.31
6 SHG_WHG 3.87
7 POLAR 1.18
8 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.66
9 PAPUAN 0.51
10 SUB_SAHARAN 0.4
11 KARITIANA 0.2
12 SE_ASIAN 0.04
13 SIBERIAN 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 7.21
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 8.64
3 Greek 9.89
4 Italian_South 10.03
5 Jew_Moroccan 10.2
6 Turkish_Istanbul 10.25
7 Cypriot 10.38
8 Turkish 10.69
9 Albanian 12.61
10 Turkish_Adana 12.78
11 Turkish_Kayseri 13.16
12 Turkish_Balekesir 13.56
13 Turkish_Aydin 14.43
14 Jew_Tunisian 15.5
15 Turkish_Trabzon 15.82
16 Jew_Libyan 16.14
17 Lebanese 16.33
18 Bulgarian 17.24
19 Armenian 17.5
20 Balkar 18.43

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.2% Sicilian + 10.8% Iran_ChL @ 2.24
2 83.7% Sicilian + 16.3% Armenia_MLBA @ 2.58
3 78.2% Italian_South + 21.8% Armenia_ChL @ 2.93
4 80.9% Jew_Ashkenazi + 19.1% Armenia_ChL @ 2.97
5 86.3% Sicilian + 13.7% Iran_recent @ 2.97
6 92.8% Sicilian + 7.2% Iran_LN @ 3
7 92.8% Sicilian + 7.2% Iran_N @ 3
8 81.1% Jew_Ashkenazi + 18.9% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.19
9 81% Sicilian + 19% Kurd_C @ 3.43
10 62% Albanian + 38% Jew_iraqi @ 3.56
11 71.3% Sicilian + 28.7% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.71
12 80.1% Sicilian + 19.9% Iranian_Lori @ 3.75
13 78.8% Italian_South + 21.2% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.8
14 84.9% Sicilian + 15.1% Armenia_ChL @ 3.83
15 76.2% Sicilian + 23.8% Assyrian @ 3.83
16 62.4% Albanian + 37.6% Jew_Iranian @ 3.93
17 61.9% Albanian + 38.1% Assyrian @ 3.94
18 79.5% Sicilian + 20.5% Iranian @ 4.04
19 55.6% Cypriot + 44.4% Albanian @ 4.06
20 83.9% Sicilian + 16.1% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 4.1



Individual 3:

MDLP K23:


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.50
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.86
3 Near_East 13.18
4 South_Central_Asian 8.46
5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 8.25
6 North_African 6.20
7 East_African 2.74


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French_Jew @ 5.210771
2 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 5.522055
3 Sicilian_West @ 5.927305
4 Sephardic_Jew @ 5.993114
5 Sicilian_East @ 6.335924
6 Turk_Jew @ 6.474777
7 Cretan @ 6.774173
8 Italian_Jew @ 6.978858
9 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 7.062959
10 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 7.127742
11 Maltese @ 7.193051
12 Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.429573
13 Greek_Smyrna @ 8.088799
14 Moroccan_Jew @ 9.112558
15 Romanian_Jew @ 9.197968
16 Ashkenazi @ 9.625136
17 Sicilian_Center @ 9.639533
18 Greek_Islands @ 9.720830
19 Italian_South @ 10.096301
20 Italian_Abruzzo @ 10.790724

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Abruzzo +50% Syrian_Jew @ 3.263894


Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 30.44
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.31
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 17.84
4 NATUFIAN 16.37
5 SHG_WHG 5.04
6 EHG 2.94
7 SUB_SAHARAN 2.89
8 SIBERIAN 0.88
9 KARITIANA 0.74
10 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.43
11 PAPUAN 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 6.69
2 Jew_Moroccan 7.21
3 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.37
4 Italian_South 9.44
5 Cypriot 9.65
6 Greek 10.67
7 Turkish 11.97
8 Turkish_Istanbul 12.04
9 Jew_Tunisian 13.08
10 Jew_Libyan 13.35
11 Turkish_Adana 13.57
12 Albanian 13.6
13 Turkish_Kayseri 14.17
14 Turkish_Balekesir 14.55
15 Turkish_Aydin 14.94
16 Lebanese 15.07
17 Turkish_Trabzon 16.97
18 Druze 17.97
19 Bulgarian 18.34
20 Armenian 18.44

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.9% Sicilian + 9.1% Iran_ChL @ 3.4
2 88.3% Sicilian + 11.7% Iran_recent @ 3.65
3 78.1% Sicilian + 21.9% Jew_iraqi @ 3.83
4 78.7% Sicilian + 21.3% Assyrian @ 3.85
5 79% Sicilian + 21% Jew_Iranian @ 3.95
6 62% Sicilian + 38% Cypriot @ 3.96
7 66.9% Turkish_Adana + 33.1% Sardinian @ 3.97
8 73.2% Sicilian + 26.8% Lebanese @ 4.08
9 94.2% Sicilian + 5.8% Iran_LN @ 4.1
10 94.2% Sicilian + 5.8% Iran_N @ 4.1
11 85.8% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.2% Armenia_ChL @ 4.21
12 59.6% Greek + 40.4% Lebanese @ 4.22
13 53% Cypriot + 47% Greek @ 4.25
14 76.2% Sicilian + 23.8% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.29
15 84.7% Sicilian + 15.3% Kurd_C @ 4.3
16 52.8% Albanian + 47.2% Lebanese @ 4.33
17 59.9% Cypriot + 40.1% Albanian @ 4.36
18 63% Jew_Moroccan + 37% Greek @ 4.38
19 78.1% Sicilian + 21.9% Armenian @ 4.41
20 83.9% Sicilian + 16.1% Iranian_Lori @ 4.47


Individual 5:

MDLP K23:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.12
2 European_Early_Farmers 22.98
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.92
4 Near_East 11.59
5 North_African 7.91
6 South_Central_Asian 5.89
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.08


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 2.863979
2 Sicilian_West @ 3.232285
3 Sicilian_East @ 3.235318
4 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 3.675076
5 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 3.712178
6 Sicilian_Trapani @ 4.111547
7 Maltese @ 4.376483
8 French_Jew @ 5.485537
9 Ashkenazi @ 5.634256
10 Romanian_Jew @ 6.330605
11 Cretan @ 6.937259
12 Sicilian_Center @ 7.333127
13 Italian_Jew @ 7.896163
14 Turk_Jew @ 7.987309
15 Sephardic_Jew @ 8.050921
16 Italian_South @ 8.105265
17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 9.046738
18 Greek_Athens @ 9.165648
19 Greek_Phokaia @ 9.473461
20 Greek @ 9.682967

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Sicilian_East +50% Sicilian_West @ 1.855589


Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 29.68
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 21.93
3 NATUFIAN 16.58
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 16.46
5 SHG_WHG 6.77
6 EHG 4.94
7 SIBERIAN 1.75
8 KARITIANA 1.06
9 PAPUAN 0.48
10 SUB_SAHARAN 0.28
11 SE_ASIAN 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 5.91
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 6.93
3 Jew_Moroccan 8.12
4 Greek 9.48
5 Italian_South 9.53
6 Cypriot 11.07
7 Turkish 11.57
8 Turkish_Istanbul 12.01
9 Albanian 12.4
10 Jew_Tunisian 13.88
11 Jew_Libyan 14.06
12 Turkish_Balekesir 14.45
13 Turkish_Adana 14.47
14 Turkish_Kayseri 14.82
15 Turkish_Aydin 14.85
16 Lebanese 16.49
17 Bulgarian 16.75
18 Turkish_Trabzon 18.67
19 Druze 19
20 Armenian 19.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.3% Sicilian + 10.7% Iran_recent @ 2.93
2 85.5% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.5% Armenia_ChL @ 3.21
3 87.9% Jew_Ashkenazi + 12.1% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.31
4 92.6% Sicilian + 7.4% Iran_ChL @ 3.56
5 82.8% Sicilian + 17.2% Jew_iraqi @ 4.03
6 83.4% Sicilian + 16.6% Assyrian @ 4.09
7 83.5% Sicilian + 16.5% Jew_Iranian @ 4.11
8 95.4% Sicilian + 4.6% Iran_LN @ 4.13
9 95.4% Sicilian + 4.6% Iran_N @ 4.13
10 55% Jew_Moroccan + 45% Greek @ 4.2
11 89.7% Sicilian + 10.3% Armenia_ChL @ 4.2
12 84% Greek + 16% Levant_BA @ 4.22
13 87.8% Sicilian + 12.2% Kurd_C @ 4.29
14 77.9% Sicilian + 22.1% Turkish_Kayseri @ 4.33
15 90.3% Sicilian + 9.7% Armenia_MLBA @ 4.33
16 87% Sicilian + 13% Iranian_Lori @ 4.34
17 71.7% Sicilian + 28.3% Cypriot @ 4.34
18 88.8% Jew_Ashkenazi + 11.2% Iran_recent @ 4.36
19 80.2% Sicilian + 19.8% Lebanese @ 4.42
20 65.5% Greek + 34.5% Lebanese @ 4.43


Individual 6:

MDLP K23:


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.72
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.29
3 Near_East 13.44
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 9.91
5 North_African 7.21
6 South_Central_Asian 6.09
7 South_East_Asian 2.29
8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.03


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East @ 4.515862
2 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 5.176376
3 Cretan @ 5.252841
4 French_Jew @ 5.289880
5 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 5.774903
6 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 5.866509
7 Turk_Jew @ 6.112687
8 Sicilian_West @ 6.191571
9 Italian_Jew @ 6.387537
10 Sephardic_Jew @ 6.451558
11 Romanian_Jew @ 6.588219
12 Maltese @ 6.892096
13 Sicilian_Trapani @ 7.321881
14 Ashkenazi @ 7.389619
15 Sicilian_Center @ 7.675289
16 Italian_South @ 8.072006
17 Greek_Smyrna @ 8.371055
18 Greek_Islands @ 8.967804
19 Greek_Phokaia @ 9.217427
20 Moroccan_Jew @ 9.342102

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi_Jew +50% Turk_Jew @ 3.305776

Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.97
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 21.59
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 17.49
4 NATUFIAN 15.91
5 SHG_WHG 5.11
6 EHG 3.58
7 SE_ASIAN 1.91
8 SIBERIAN 1.1
9 SUB_SAHARAN 0.81
10 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.39
11 PAPUAN 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 5.52
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 5.87
3 Italian_South 7.78
4 Jew_Moroccan 8.2
5 Greek 8.97
6 Cypriot 10.18
7 Turkish_Istanbul 10.5
8 Turkish 10.77
9 Albanian 11.96
10 Turkish_Balekesir 13.26
11 Turkish_Adana 13.33
12 Turkish_Kayseri 13.77
13 Turkish_Aydin 14
14 Jew_Tunisian 14.16
15 Jew_Libyan 14.64
16 Lebanese 16.36
17 Bulgarian 16.81
18 Turkish_Trabzon 16.93
19 Armenian 18.45
20 Druze 18.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.4% Greek + 46.6% Cypriot @ 2.56
2 81% Sicilian + 19% Assyrian @ 2.59
3 92.3% Sicilian + 7.7% Iran_ChL @ 2.6
4 77.6% Sicilian + 22.4% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.65
5 54.3% Cypriot + 45.7% Albanian @ 2.65
6 81.6% Sicilian + 18.4% Jew_Iranian @ 2.83
7 94.8% Sicilian + 5.2% Iran_LN @ 2.84
8 94.8% Sicilian + 5.2% Iran_N @ 2.84
9 74% Sicilian + 26% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.85
10 81.2% Sicilian + 18.8% Jew_iraqi @ 2.85
11 79.5% Sicilian + 20.5% Armenian @ 2.87
12 88% Jew_Ashkenazi + 12% Armenia_ChL @ 2.91
13 90.3% Sicilian + 9.7% Iran_recent @ 2.93
14 86.1% Sicilian + 13.9% Kurd_C @ 2.97
15 63% Cypriot + 37% Bulgarian @ 3.04
16 66.9% Turkish_Adana + 33.1% Sardinian @ 3.05
17 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Iranian_Lori @ 3.12
18 88.4% Jew_Ashkenazi + 11.6% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.16
19 68.2% Sicilian + 31.8% Cypriot @ 3.17
20 74.3% Sicilian + 25.7% Turkish_Adana @ 3.22

Sikeliot
11-28-2016, 04:33 PM
Or rather, there is no evidence they have substantial ancestry from the Greek mainland, or any affinity to the Balkans at all.