Groundbreaking new mtDNA genetic study on Old Hungarians, with surprising results

[Dunai]

"Abstract

The ancient Hungarians originated from the Ural region in today’s central Russia and migrated across the Eastern European steppe, according to historical sources. The Hungarians conquered the Carpathian Basin 895–907 AD, and admixed with the indigenous communities. Here we present mitochondrial DNA results from three datasets: one from the Avar period (7th–9th centuries) of the Carpathian Basin (n = 31); one from the Hungarian conquest-period (n = 76); and a completion of the published 10th–12th century Hungarian-Slavic contact zone dataset by four samples. We compare these mitochondrial DNA hypervariable segment sequences and haplogroup results with published ancient and modern Eurasian data. Whereas the analyzed Avars represents a certain group of the Avar society that shows East and South European genetic characteristics, the Hungarian conquerors’ maternal gene pool is a mixture of West Eurasian and Central and North Eurasian elements. Comprehensively analyzing the results, both the linguistically recorded Finno-Ugric roots and historically documented Turkic and Central Asian influxes had possible genetic imprints in the conquerors’ genetic composition. Our data allows a complex series of historic and population genetic events before the formation of the medieval population of the Carpathian Basin, and the maternal genetic continuity between 10th–12th century and modern Hungarians."

"Introduction

According to historical sources, the Hungarian tribal alliance conquered the eastern parts of the Carpathian Basin in 895 AD, and in successive campaigns occupied its central territories until 907 AD1. The mixed autochthonous population, which mostly spoke different Slavic, Turkic Avar, and German languages, integrated with variable speed with the newcomers, as we know from contemporaneous sources2. Whereas the Slavs lived mainly on the fringes, the successors of the Avars persisted in some inner territories of the Carpathian Basin. The Avars arrived in the Carpathian Basin in 568 AD, fleeing the westward-expanding influence of the Turkic Khaganate in Inner Asia3. The Avar population already included several folk elements at this time; and the population was uniform from neither a cultural nor a physical anthropological perspective. Over one hundred thousand excavated graves from the Avar period in the Carpathian Basin picture a heterogenic physical anthropological composition of this population, which contained mainly Europid characters and, only in certain regions and periods, was dominated by Asian craniometric indices4. The occupation policy of Avar and ancient Hungarian tribes were similar due to similar steppe-type husbandry and management of space and power. In the politically unified alliance of the Hungarian tribes, both the leader and the tributary folks influenced each other culturally. These interactions are easily seen from the changing material culture of the Hungarian conquerors, who began to use local types of jewels but also maintained steppe-like traditions during the 10th century5. It is difficult to estimate the size of the 10th–11th century population of the Carpathian Basin from ca. twenty-five thousand excavated graves5,6. Scholars estimate the Hungarian conqueror population in the Carpathian Basin between a few thousand and half a million, while the indigenous population size, which is also uncertain, is estimated at a few hundred thousand people7.

Historical sources give evidence of the mixed ethnic composition of the Hungarians before the conquest of the Carpathian Basin2,8. The diverse origin of the Hungarian tribes has also been documented in physical anthropological research. Craniometrical analyses revealed that the Europid crania type was predominant in the conquerors, with smaller amounts of Europo-Mongoloid characters9. Regional groups of the ancient Hungarian anthropological series show morphometric parallels ranging from the Crimean Peninsula to the Kazakh steppe10.

The Finno-Ugric origin of the Hungarian language is well recorded by linguistic research, which lead to an assumption that there was a Uralic substrate of the ancient Hungarian population2. However, Turkic-speaking groups could also have had a significant role in the formation of the Hungarian people and political institutions, as suggested by ancient Turkic loanwords in the early layer of the Hungarian language and the Turkic origin of toponyms and person names of tribe leaders of the conquest-period11. After leaving the Central Uralic homeland, an obvious source of the Turkic influence was the Turkic-speaking political environment of the Bulgars (Onogurs) and Khazars in the 9th-century Eastern European steppe, where the Hungarians lived for a period of time. The exact route and chronology of the Hungarian migration between the Ural region and the Carpathian Basin is continually debated among archaeologists, linguists and historians."

"Results

Reproduced hyper variable segment I (HVS-I) sequences were obtained from mtDNA of 111 individuals from the medieval Carpathian Basin: 31 mtDNA profiles from Avars, 76 from Hungarian conquerors and four from the southern Hungarian-Slavic contact zone (see Supplementary Table S3). The mtDNA of 111 individuals was extracted at least twice per individual from different skeletal elements (tooth and femur or other long bones, Supplementary Table S1), the HVS-I fragments were reproduced in subsequent PCR and sequencing reactions, at least twice per DNA extract. The sequence results of these replicates, spanning HVS-I nucleotide positions (np) 16040–16400, typing individual selections of 14 coding region positions and two fragments of the HVS-II (np 29–254) confirm the haplotypes to be authentic. Of the 144 processed samples, 33 had no amplifiable DNA yield, or the sequences gave ambiguous haplotype results.

The Avar group from the southeastern Great Hungarian Plain (Alföld) had a mixed European-Asian haplogroup composition with four Asian haplogroups (C, M6, D4c1, F1b) at 15.3%, but a predominantly European (H, K, T, U), haplogroup composition (Fig. 2). In the conqueror population the most common Eurasian haplogroups were detected. West-Eurasian haplogroups (H, HV, I, J, K, N1a, R, T, U, V, X, W) were present at a frequency of 77%, and Central and East-Eurasian haplogroups (A, B, C, D, F, G, M) at 23%. The most widespread haplogroups of the conqueror population were H and U with frequencies 22% and 20% respectively (Supplementary Table S5). Five individuals from the 9th–10th centuries from the west Hungarian Vörs-Papkert site were excluded from any statistical analysis because of their offside geographical location and cultural differences from the Avar and Hungarian sites. Their mtDNA belonged to the common European J and H haplogroups, but with rare haplotype variants in ancient and modern mtDNA databases (see Supplementary Table S15 for database references). The number of typed mtDNA from the 10th–12th century contact zone metapopulation13 was enlarged by four 10th century samples from present-day north Croatia. One belonged to a characteristic European H10e haplotype; another belonged to U7 haplotype, mainly distributed in modern Southwest Asia and Southern Europe; a third belonged to the Southwest Asian N1b1 type; the fourth U5a2a haplotype was common in modern Eurasia.

The three Carpathian Basin populations were compared with populations from most of the ancient North European and medieval Asian populations, showing significant differences in haplogroup composition (p < 0.05). On the other hand, prehistoric Central Asian, south central Siberian (Minusinsk Hollow) and Baraba populations were not significantly different from the populations of the Carpathian Basin, and these affinities are also reflected in the clustering tree.

The conqueror population has a similar haplogroup composition to modern Central Asians and Finno-Ugric populations, which is also supported by Ward type clustering. While Avars rather showed modern European connections, the contact zone population had a Near Eastern type haplogroup composition.

The distance calculations based on high subhaplogroup resolution also showed that modern Central Asian populations were highly similar to the conqueror population. The maternal genetic connections of the Avar group concentrated on modern Eastern European populations, and the contact zone group showed Southwest Asian affinities on genetic distance maps (GDM)."

"Discussion

We found genetic similarities of the conquerors with the Late Bronze Age population of the Baraba region, situated between the rivers Ob and Irtis17, and with Bronze Age and Iron Age populations that lived in Central Asia15 and south Siberia14,16. Comparing the conqueror mtDNA dataset to a large modern-day population dataset, we also found comprehensive genetic affinities towards modern populations of Central Asia and Central Russia. The parallels of these Asian haplogroups are found in modern ethnic groups speaking both Ugric and Turkic languages. The historically and linguistically assumed homeland of the ancient Hungarians was in the Central Ural region, which is an easily accessible part of the mountain range. Finno-Ugric-speaking groups might have settled on both sides of the Urals during the early Medieval period29. Archeological records, for example, from central-eastern Uralic site Uelgi, indicate archaeological cultural mixture of northern Ugric and eastern steppic Turkic elements. These eastern components show cultural connections toward the region of the Emba River in today’s western Kazakhstan and toward the Srostki culture30, which indicates that the ancient Hungarian population could already have been reached in the Central Ural region by several cultural and genetic influences. Newly revised archaeological connections of the Central Urals and the Carpathian Basin suggest a quick migration from the forest steppe to the Carpathian Basin31, and during these events, the genetic make-up of the conquerors retained some Central Asian signatures."

Full article (Published: 16 September 2016):
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep33446

[Dunai]

I'm quite surprised these new results haven't stirred any discussions. This new and by far most vast research seems to confirm that Old Hungarians had indeed a Turkic elite who were probably bilingual or already assimilated into commoner Old Hungarians (none-warrior majority), who were on the other hand Uralic people. Genetically Old Hungarians seem to have been closest to modern day Central Asians and Uralic people and quite distant from Modern Hungarians. This seems to suggest that Old Hungarians transmitted their culture and language to the indigenous Germanic and Slavic population of the Carpathian Basin, who ended up forming the Modern Hungarians who we all are today.

[adsız]

I'm quite surprised these new results haven't stirred any discussions. This new and by far most vast research seems to confirm that Old Hungarians had indeed a Turkic elite who were probably bilingual or already assimilated into commoner Old Hungarians (none-warrior majority), who were on the other hand Uralic people. Genetically Old Hungarians seem to have been closest to modern day Central Asians and Uralic people and quite distant from Modern Hungarians. This seems to suggest that Old Hungarians transmitted their culture and language to the indigenous Germanic and Slavic population of the Carpathian Basin, who ended up forming the Modern Hungarians who we all are today.

Where did "the old Hungarians" go?

[Dunai]

Where did "the old Hungarians" go?

It is well documented that during the 10th century Old Hungarians have fought dozens of battles all across Europe, but also on home soil, when we were attacked by the Pechenegs and Germans. These battles were mostly fought by the warrior elite, thus by the more Turkic component of our people, and many have bled out on the battlefield. Steadily this racial component have died out from Hungarians, and after several waves of Western European settlers came to our kingdom Hungarians became predominantly Europids racially. My DNA build-up is also testimony for Western European migration to Hungary.

[Loki]

Where did "the old Hungarians" go?

To the Carpathian basin, obviously, and intermixed with various other groups along the way like Turkics, Avars, Germanic tribes, Slavs.

[Böri]

This is normal, Uralics peoples are not peoples with vision they are destined to be natives assimilated by foreigners like with Russian today. Only a Turkic uber elite can take and bring them to Europe and roots a homeland and language and kingdom and culture. This happent . Hungarian nobility even recent history have more of This components than villages Hungarians.

[Dunai]

This is normal, Uralics peoples are not peoples with vision they are destined to be natives assimilated by foreigners like with Russian today. Only a Turkic uber elite can take and bring them to Europe and roots a homeland and language and kingdom and culture. This happent . Hungarian nobility even recent history have more of This components than villages Hungarians.

I agree to a certain extent, without the aid of the Turkic element in Old Hungarians, we probably wouldn't speak of the great achievements of the Hungarian people situated in the heart of Europe. This element helped us carve a home here, in the Carpathian Basin, but the Uralic element still gave us this very unique and logical language, without which Hungarians wouldn't have been able to create and contribute to Europe and to the world on the significant extent we did, as a strong, a language with character can truly shape the soul and brain of an entire people, just to sound a little bit poetic.

[Harkonnen]

I agree to a certain extent, without the aid of the Turkic element in Old Hungarians, we probably wouldn't speak of the great achievements of the Hungarian people situated in the heart of Europe. This element helped us carve a home here, in the Carpathian Basin, but the Uralic element still gave us this very unique and logical language, without which Hungarians wouldn't have been able to create and contribute to Europe and to the world on the significant extent we did, as a strong, a language with character can truly shape the soul and brain of an entire people, just to sound a little bit poetic.

The Hungarian/Polak scientist has spoken.

[adsız]

It is well documented that during the 10th century Old Hungarians have fought dozens of battles all across Europe, but also on home soil, when we were attacked by the Pechenegs and Germans. These battles were mostly fought by the warrior elite, thus by the more Turkic component of our people, and many have bled out on the battlefield. Steadily this racial component have died out from Hungarians, and after several waves of Western European settlers came to our kingdom Hungarians became predominantly Europids racially. My DNA build-up is also testimony for Western European migration to Hungary.

Some discrepancy..


You said in your previous post;

Old Hungarians seem to have been closest to modern day Central Asians and Uralic people
what means the old Hungarians were central Asians (Turkic).


But,
You are now saying "the warrior elite, thus by the more Turkic component of our people" died out from Hungarians. This means they were not entirely a group of Turkic people but already a mix of different groups (?) when they arrived in the modern Hungaria?

[Dunai]

Some discrepancy..


You said in your previous post;

what means the "old Hungarians were central Asians (Turkic).


But,
You are now saying "the warrior elite, thus by the more Turkic component of our people" died out from Hungarians. This means they were not entirely a group of Turkic people but already a mix of different groups (?) when they arrived in the modern Hungaria?

Of course they were a mix of people when they arrived in the Carpathian Basin, the Turkic element was probably between 15-25%, the rest was Uralic plus some Iranian and Slavic also. There were also Magyarized Slavs who fought along with the mostly Magyarized Turkic and even Iranian (Kabars) elements of the warrior elite, based on the names mentioned in Medieval documents. The warrior elite even if of steppe origin (Turkic, Iranian), was already mostly Magyarized when arriving in the Carpathian Basin.

[Nurzat]

Genetically Old Hungarians seem to have been closest to modern day Central Asians and Uralic people and quite distant from Modern Hungarians. This seems to suggest that Old Hungarians transmitted their culture and language to the indigenous Germanic and Slavic population of the Carpathian Basin, who ended up forming the Modern Hungarians who we all are today.

Slavic, Vlach and Germanic, all three, I think, maybe some few Celts too, formed today's Hungarians. there was a Romanic mass of population in the area for sure - the Slavs only arrived after 6th century CE.

[adsız]

Of course they were a mix of people when they arrived in the Carpathian Basin, the Turkic element was probably between 15-25%, the rest was Uralic plus some Iranian and Slavic also. There were also Magyarized Slavs who fought along with the mostly Magyarized Turkic and even Iranian (Kabars) elements of the warrior elite, based on the names mentioned in Medieval documents. The warrior elite even if of steppe origin, was already mostly Magyarized when arriving in the Carpathian Basin.

I consider Uralic people as Turkic too. (Or closest to Turkic people)

Anyway, i have just saw this when i googled :


The early tenth century Arab geographer Ibn Rusta writes ‘The Magyars are a race of Turks”.1 Another Arab, Mahmud Gardezi, writing about 1050 but quoting from a source dating from around 913, repeats this and adds, ‘These Magyars are a handsome people and of good appearance and their clothes are of silk brocade and their weapons are of silver and are encrusted with gold’.2 When the Magyars are first clearly identified in Byzantine literature, they are repeatedly referred to as Turks. The ninth and tenth century Byzantine writers described the Türkic general appearance, customs, social, political, and martial organization of the Magyars of that period.3 The early Hungarians appear as Türkic-Ugrian mixture, with the dominant Türks.

Very useful reading: http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/20Roots/260Convergence/Hungarians/KubarsEn.htm

[Böri]

Kabars were Türkic Khazar, no Iranian.

[Dunai]

Kabars were Türkic Khazar, no Iranian.

There are two theories, that they were Turkic Khazars or they were Iranian Khwarezm (Kabars were Khalyzians, which is derivative name to Khwarezm). They could easily been Turkic-Iranians, but definitely not entirely Turkics.

[Harkonnen]

Of course they were a mix of people when they arrived in the Carpathian Basin, the Turkic element was probably between 15-25%, the rest was Uralic plus some Iranian and Slavic also. There were also Magyarized Slavs who fought along with the mostly Magyarized Turkic and even Iranian (Kabars) elements of the warrior elite, based on the names mentioned in Medieval documents. The warrior elite even if of steppe origin (Turkic, Iranian), was already mostly Magyarized when arriving in the Carpathian Basin.

According to DNA tests the warrior elite was mostly N1c1, mostly absent in Turkic and Iranian populations


The second article under consideration resulted from the Raskó team’s research that examined the DNA of men, the so-called y-chromosomal DNA. In this project the researchers looked for the incidence of Tat polymorphism, i.e.,the Tat C allele, in the Y chromosomal DNA of two populations: male occupants of 10th century elite graves and modern-day Hungarian and Székely men. The results of the investigation were surprising.
The research revealed that while among the conquerors the Tat polymorphism was common, among the modern samples it was virtually absent (only one man, a Székely, was found carrying the Tat C allele). To put it in another way, the researchers found that many of the conquerors, i.e., Prince Árpád’s warriors, belonged to the N1c1 human y-DNA haplogroup, and they also found that as far as the 200 modern y-DNA sample indicated, not a single resident of present day Hungary was a member of this group. In other words, they found no genetic connection between Árpád’s warriors and Hungary’s present day male population.

http://ahea.net/sitefiles/file/journals/201110/DreiszigerN.pdf

[Harkonnen]

See also this


G.E. Afanasyev
About territory of Khazar Kaganat and Khazar domain in the 9th century

https://www.academia.edu/14184796/%D...B0%D1%82%D0%B8

Just before the work went into print 4 samples from Podgorovskiy catacomb burrial VIII-IX century of saltovo-mayatskaya culture (excavation by V.A.Sarapulkin, anthropological expertise by I.K.Reshetnikova. Established that this burrial had Y-DNA haplogroups R1b and N1c. This matter wil be covered in another special article.
Samples were tested MOE Key Laboratory of Contemporary Anthropology, School of Life Sciences, Fudan University.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltovo-Mayaki


Saltovo-Mayaki is the name given by archaeologists to the early medieval (VIII-IX centuries A.D.)culture of the Pontic steppe region roughly between the Don and the Dnieper Rivers. Their culture was a melting pot of Onogur, Khazar, Pecheneg, Magyar, Alan, and Slavic influences. During the ninth century the Saltovo-Mayaki culture was closely associated with the Khazar Khaganate, and archaeological sites from this period are one way that historians track the geographic scope of Khazar influence.


Interesting discussion from here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread/page120&

Afanasiev study (2015) suggests that "ethnic Khazars" had a kurgan burial rite, and he localizes their main center on the Lower Don. Their skeletons show Mongoloid traits. The R1b/N1c combo is from the Europoid area of the catacomb style burial rite, more to the north. They are considered Alanic.


Khazar Empire was a multiethnic melting pot, where we should indeed find also the conquering proto-Magyars. I think the N1c in the northern site could be a smoking gun for Magyars. Could it be that these N1c/R1b burials are in fact not Alans but Magyars?

[Dunai]

Slavic, Vlach and Germanic, all three, I think, maybe some few Celts too, formed today's Hungarians. there was a Romanic mass of population in the area for sure - the Slavs only arrived after 6th century CE.

But Romance loan words came much later into Hungarian language (11th century onward), even after Latin words were adopted through to the missionary work of Western Catholic priests, and these were of Western Romance origin, while Eastern Romance (Vlach) loan words are quite few and date even later. However Hungarian adopted many loanwords from Slavic and German language that was found in the Carpathian Basin, from as early as settling here in the 10th century, but no East Romance words. I wouldn't even start about the complete lack of archaeological evidence of Vlach settlements in the Carpathian Basin in the 10th century.

[Böri]

Too many not correct info here. Kabars were undoubtably Türkic. Byzantines have written proof Uralic Magyars were led by this elite which was Turkic because they refer to Hungarian aristocratic class as 'Prince of Turks, Lol. So Greeks saw Kabars and believed all Magyar folk was also Türkic.

[Dunai]

According to DNA tests the warrior elite was mostly N1c1, mostly absent in Turkic and Iranian populations



http://ahea.net/sitefiles/file/journals/201110/DreiszigerN.pdf

As I mentioned earlier, the warrior elite were mostly Magyarized Turkics, result of interbreeding between Central Asian Europo-Mongoloid Turkics and North-East European Uralic Europids, N could've easily become frequent among them, but most of their names remained Turkic, also their customs and warrior style remained identical to that of the nomadic Turkic people. This newest study just proves that Old Hungarians were closest to modern day Central Asians on maternal line, it doesn't speak of paternal line as Raskó's study:

"In the conqueror population the most common Eurasian haplogroups were detected. West-Eurasian haplogroups (H, HV, I, J, K, N1a, R, T, U, V, X, W) were present at a frequency of 77%, and Central and East-Eurasian haplogroups (A, B, C, D, F, G, M) at 23%. The most widespread haplogroups of the conqueror population were H and U with frequencies 22% and 20% respectively "

The 77% represents loosely the commoner Uralic population, while the 23% the Central Asian Turkic warrior element. There was an obvious genetic and racial difference between the commoners and the ruling elite.

[Dunai]

Too many not correct info here. Kabars were undoubtably Türkic. Byzantines have written proof Uralic Magyars were led by this elite which was Turkic because they refer to Hungarian aristocratic class as 'Prince of Turks, Lol. So Greeks saw Kabars and believed all Magyar folk was also Türkic.

You are wrong on this. Kabars never played primal role in the conquest of the Old Hungarians, they were auxiliary troops to the main armies, all led by Magyars chieftains. Byzantine sources speak of the Magyars being Turkics, since in foreign policy only the main Magyar chieftains and generals had the right to go in delegation to meet Byzantine representatives. It is however true that the main Magyar chieftains had Turkic names and similar military and administrative organization as the Turkics. The Kabars joined the Magyars mostly because being dissatisfied with the expanse of Jewish influence in the Khazar Empire.

[johen]

As I mentioned earlier, the warrior elite were mostly Magyarized Turkics, result of interbreeding between Central Asian Europo-Mongoloid Turkics and North-East European Uralic Europids, N could've easily become frequent among them, but most of their names remained Turkic, also their customs and warrior style remained identical to that of the nomadic Turkic people. This newest study just proves that Old Hungarians were closest to modern day Central Asians on maternal line, it doesn't speak of paternal line as Raskó's study:

"In the conqueror population the most common Eurasian haplogroups were detected. West-Eurasian haplogroups (H, HV, I, J, K, N1a, R, T, U, V, X, W) were present at a frequency of 77%, and Central and East-Eurasian haplogroups (A, B, C, D, F, G, M) at 23%. The most widespread haplogroups of the conqueror population were H and U with frequencies 22% and 20% respectively "

The 77% represents loosely the commoner Uralic population, while the 23% the Central Asian Turkic warrior element. There was an obvious genetic and racial difference between the commoners and the ruling elite.

Definitely, they came from Central Asia with their unique culture:
Maygar people shaved their head except three long braids. you can see a hat and braids of maygar horseman.
Moreover, I personally think their hair modes was inherited from American Indian culture, who stayed in Altai, not migrated in America. And The elite N1C might be related to N1c of
"Yakuts who were Kurykans from Yenisey river to Baikal Lake.[9][10][11] in the 7th century by wiki"


N1c1a1a (P298): found in Siberia (Yakuts)
N1c1a1a2b (L1034): Ugric branch; found in and around Hungary and in Central Asia (Kazakhstan)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_N1c_Y-DNA.shtml

https://books.google.ca/books?id=dvVQbhxa4OUC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=maygar+people+shaved+their+head+except+three+lo ng&source=bl&ots=BWboxLd7Mz&sig=BEnkt5hPq_jMtF4UclcfwMNIh0s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP84-F0o_QAhVV62MKHUmyCo8Q6AEILDAF#v=onepage&q=maygar%20people%20shaved%20their%20head%20except %20three%20long&f=false

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Rajzom.JPG

[blogen]

What is the new on this:
http://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/srep/2016/160916/srep33446/images_hires/m685/srep33446-f2.jpg
"The three Carpathian Basin populations were compared with populations from most of the ancient North European and medieval Asian populations, showing significant differences in haplogroup composition (p < 0.05). On the other hand, prehistoric Central Asian, south central Siberian (Minusinsk Hollow) and Baraba populations were not significantly different from the populations of the Carpathian Basin, and these affinities are also reflected in the clustering tree."

The Hungarian conqueror maternal linage is closer to the contemporary than any other 10th century lineage (Slavs for example), but the contemporary Hungarians are definitely a mixed population with these Slavs. The East-Eurasian origin genes were in absolute minority in the 10th century population, etc. This is what I saw based on the first mtDNA and YDNA datas and the anthropological surveys of the Hungarians. And this is totally equal to the anthropological surveys of the contemporary (Henkey) and historical (Lipták) Magyar populations.

Move on.

[blogen]

Kabars were Türkic Khazar, no Iranian.

Kabars were dominantly Iranians with some Turkic elements.

[Pahli]

Old Hungarians "joined" the Turkic steppe migration to Europe and naturally received Turkic influence which mostly shaped their culture, although Steppe culture most likely dies out with urbanization and mass assimilation. But they weren't from Central Asia, they lived North of Kazakhstan near the Urals, probably among other Finno-Uralic ethnicities (Udmurts, Erzya and Moksha)

[Harkonnen]

Definitely, they came from Central Asia with their unique culture:
Maygar people shaved their head except three long braids. you can see a hat and braids of maygar horseman.
Moreover, I personally think their hair modes was inherited from American Indian culture, who stayed in Altai, not migrated in America. And The elite N1C might be related to N1c of
"Yakuts who were Kurykans from Yenisey river to Baikal Lake.[9][10][11] in the 7th century by wiki"

https://books.google.ca/books?id=dvVQbhxa4OUC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=maygar+people+shaved+their+head+except+three+lo ng&source=bl&ots=BWboxLd7Mz&sig=BEnkt5hPq_jMtF4UclcfwMNIh0s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP84-F0o_QAhVV62MKHUmyCo8Q6AEILDAF#v=onepage&q=maygar%20people%20shaved%20their%20head%20except %20three%20long&f=false

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9b/Rajzom.JPG

Nope. Ugric N1c1 looks to belong to L1034 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00438-014-0925-2. A relatively young mutation belonging to the Northeast European N1c1 type. Ofc you have already seen the study I posted, but choose to ignore it: TROLOLOLO

[cosmoo]

It is well documented that during the 10th century Old Hungarians have fought dozens of battles all across Europe, but also on home soil, when we were attacked by the Pechenegs and Germans. These battles were mostly fought by the warrior elite, thus by the more Turkic component of our people, and many have bled out on the battlefield. Steadily this racial component have died out from Hungarians, and after several waves of Western European settlers came to our kingdom Hungarians became predominantly Europids racially. My DNA build-up is also testimony for Western European migration to Hungary.
You must remember that, from anthropological perspective, original Magyars (and Finno-Ugrians as a whole) were only mongoloid to a degree, and that they still were predominantly of European Caucasian types:

We have no physical remains of the early Finnic invaders of Bulgaria, but those of the Ugri of the land-taking period, as the Hunganans call it, are adequate. As is to be expected, these ancestral Magyars, led into Hungary by Arpád, were only mongoloid to a minor degree. Some of the crania which are found in wealthy graves do show definite mongoloid characteristics, but the others for the most part lack them. The majority of the Magyars were of the same Finnish types expected from our previous study of Finns in Russia, while smaller minorities included Dinarics or Armenoids.

Debetz's discovery that the Finno-Ugrian speakers were originally purely European in race, and furthermore, not local Palaeolithic or Mesolithic survivors, is in perfect accord with the present state of linguistic knowledge, which makes their form of speech one of two equally weighted elements in the basic Indo-European. They not only were, but on logical grounds must have been, in the larger sense, Mediterraneans.

[Dunai]

You must remember that, from anthropological perspective, original Magyars (and Finno-Ugrians as a whole) were only mongoloid to a degree, and that they still were predominantly of European Caucasian types:

We have no physical remains of the early Finnic invaders of Bulgaria, but those of the Ugri of the land-taking period, as the Hunganans call it, are adequate. As is to be expected, these ancestral Magyars, led into Hungary by Arpád, were only mongoloid to a minor degree. Some of the crania which are found in wealthy graves do show definite mongoloid characteristics, but the others for the most part lack them. The majority of the Magyars were of the same Finnish types expected from our previous study of Finns in Russia, while smaller minorities included Dinarics or Armenoids.

Debetz's discovery that the Finno-Ugrian speakers were originally purely European in race, and furthermore, not local Palaeolithic or Mesolithic survivors, is in perfect accord with the present state of linguistic knowledge, which makes their form of speech one of two equally weighted elements in the basic Indo-European. They not only were, but on logical grounds must have been, in the larger sense, Mediterraneans.

And I never ever stated anything else. Anthropologically the elite had mostly Europo-Mongoloid features, of Central Asian origin while the commoners were Europids. This seems to support the theory that a part of the Onogurs (Old Bulgars) have conquered and intermarried with a much larger population of Proto-Hungarians (Uralic) living around the Lower Urals. From this mixture the Old Hungarians (Uralo-Turkic) were formed that conquered the Carpathian Basin.

[Böri]

Kabars were dominantly Iranians with some Turkic elements.

Yes Kabars were also Ypg members. Nothing Iranian only Türkic

[Pahli]

Yes Kabars were also Ypg members. Nothing Iranian only Türkic

http://i.imgur.com/aHttYGq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kb22NFa.jpg

[Böri]

...]

Kiro there is historical document where Greeks refer to their aristocracy as Princes of Turks, this means nothing to discuss and here people read only forum discussions and buthurt posts. Now I dont know if you will blow yourself in suicide bombing because of disappointment.

[Pahli]

Kiro there is historical document where Greeks refer to their aristocracy as Princes of Turks, this means nothing to discuss and here people read only forum discussions and buthurt posts. Now I dont know if you will blow yourself in suicide bombing because of disappointment.

In that case I'll make sure to at least take you down with me :cool:

[meisje]

Is there any kit number for Autosomal Dna of these Hungarian samples

[meisje]

Another Thread is fucked up by Turkic Cocksucker Armenoid Pontic Untermensch ,Sickness,Do not derail threads with your Small Fish Brain,You Piece Of Greek Rape Product

[Dunai]

Is there any kit number for Autosomal Dna of these Hungarian samples

I posted in my OP the link to the full article, you can look it up in the bibliography and methodology of the study.

[Böri]

In that case I'll make sure to at least take you down with me :cool:

Lol that shows you perceive me as a semi god in your mind.

[Pahli]

Lol that shows you perceive me as a semi god in your mind.

More like a piece of human waste that would be nice to erase from the face of the Earth.

[Pennywise]

Kabars were dominantly Iranians with some Turkic elements.

Do you have any source about that? Plus, when you say "Iranian" Zoran (and etc.) think they were from Tehran. Iranic/Eastern Iranic nomads is the correct term.

[Böri]

Lol buthurts coalition around here. It must be difficult life as refugee descent peoples. Everyone in his category

[Pahli]

Do you have any source about that? Plus, when you say "Iranian" Zoran (and etc.) think they were from Tehran. Iranic/Eastern Iranic nomads is the correct term.

I know they're West Iranic genius, I'm not retarded, but thank you for the unneeded attention though :-)


Lol buthurts coalition around here. It must be difficult life as refugee descent peoples. Everyone in his category

Unfortunately for you I'm not a refugee, but you could very well become one when your country goes down. Good luck crossing the Black Sea.

[meisje]

Lol buthurts coalition around here. It must be difficult life as refugee descent peoples. Everyone in his category

Who are you, Ancient Anatolian from 6.000 B.C or Greek rape Product with an Armenoid Face, You Anal-Raped Orospu Cocuğu

[Pahli]

Who are you, Ancient Anatolian from 6.000 B.C or Greek rape Product with an Armenoid Face, You Anal-Raped Orospu Cocuğu

Here's the finest example of Shitness:

http://gb.fotolibra.com/images/previews/1230003-encaustic-portrait-from-a-coffin-at-fayum-egypt-100-ad.jpeg

[Böri]

Don't quote my post buthurt monkey gtfo my country. You in Turkey is like people crossing fences and entering the Hungary country then getting citizenship. Go home Refugee.


I know they're West Iranic genius, I'm not retarded, but thank you for the unneeded attention though :-)



Unfortunately for you I'm not a refugee, but you could very well become one when your country goes down. Good luck crossing the Black Sea.

I wouldnt be surprised this country filled with loser people deported from everywhere so population of losers and ready for future defeats.

[meisje]

Here's the finest example of Shitness:

Shitnes(Sickness) is sitting and shitting all day long behind his computer with his masturbating Hands, Sickness is sick man of TA

[meisje]

Don't quote my post buthurt monkey gtfo my country. You in Turkey is like people crossing fences and entering the Hungary country then getting citizenship. Go home Refugee.



I wouldnt be surprised this country filled with loser people deported from everywhere so population of losers and ready for future defeats.

Better choose your Words, Low IQ Anal Monkey, I send you to Brothel together with your whore MOM, Do not talk bigger than you Again, You Piece of RAPE PRODUCT

[Pahli]

Don't quote my post buthurt monkey gtfo my country. You in Turkey is like people crossing fences and entering the Hungary country then getting citizenship. Go home Refugee.



I wouldnt be surprised this country filled with loser people deported from everywhere so population of losers and ready for future defeats.

You're the most retarded nationalist I've ever met, even the average retarded Turks on the internet aren't as dumb as you, stop polluting us and your own country with your dumb presence. I'm trying to be very nice to you and you still act like a donkey. I feel sorry for your country having to cope with you.

[Böri]

Lol monkey. Come to my country, get citizenship, support Pkk, then want to be normal person. And think it's normal, ülkemden defol amk terörist göçmeni.

[blogen]

Do you have any source about that? Plus, when you say "Iranian" Zoran (and etc.) think they were from Tehran. Iranic/Eastern Iranic nomads is the correct term.

The great number of the Árpád-age (10-13th century) Iranian toponyms (ladány, varsány, szirák, oszlár, örs, etc.), came from the Kabars, because there was no other Iranian influx into the basin in this age. Of course there were Turkic speakers between the Kabars but great part, presumably the majority of them were Iranian speakers. Even their self name: Káliz was the clear evidence of their origin: peoples from Kal (Khorezm).

[Pahli]

Lol monkey. Come to my country, get citizenship, support Pkk, then want to be normal person. And think it's normal, ülkemden defol amk terörist göçmeni.

I'll come to your country and beat your ass up you dumb brown midget. I can live without problems in Turkey :cool:

[meisje]

Witness

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWao_8JR5eTyzlHfV8epZXv0KoMYR9H kQ7KgNOogE4nE4WXYfI

[blogen]

Dear Witness! Go back to your Anatolian islamo-erdoganist shithole and trolling there! And dear Kurds: Syria, Irak and Anatolia is your battlefield and not this topic!

[Pahli]

Dear Witness! Go back to your Anatolian islamo-erdoganist shithole and trolling there! And dear Kurds: Syria, Irak and Anatolia is your battlefield and not this topic!

As you wish :D

[meisje]

Lol monkey. Come to my country, get citizenship, support Pkk, then want to be normal person. And think it's normal, ülkemden defol amk terörist göçmeni.

I stuck in your Tongue to your Anal-Raped ass Little Prick, Orospunun Çocuğu, Meet with me instead of writing stupid Things

[Böri]

I already have your picture little Pkk terrorist supporter mud. Shameless monkey like you there isnt 2 in the world Refugee.


Dear Witness! Go back to your Anatolian islamo-erdoganist shithole and trolling there! And dear Kurds: Syria, Irak and Anatolia is your battlefield and not this topic!

I live in my country already.

[Böri]

Lol ha ha Refugee shit can you sleep for days? Prove us you arent keyboard warrior post your pictures and phone number here.

[meisje]

Lol ha ha Refugee shit can you sleep for days? Prove us you arent keyboard warrior post your pictures and phone number here.

I have already gave my address to you ,Çekmeköy Maya site,Write your address to me

[Pennywise]

The great number of the Árpád-age (10-13th century) Iranian toponyms (ladány, varsány, szirák, oszlár, örs, etc.), came from the Kabars, because there was no other Iranian influx into the basin in this age. Of course there were Turkic speakers between the Kabars but great part, presumably the majority of them were Iranian speakers. Even their self name: Káliz was the clear evidence of their origin: peoples from Kal (Khorezm).

Using toponyms and personal names to determine a group of peoples idendity is a very shaky method. Besides, I have never encountered a serious study that suggests such a structure within Kabars. Both in modern and historical sources they referred as just Turkic. So, you basically have no source and all of them are your interpretations.

[Böri]

This is answer of keyboard warrior to challenge. Ha ha lol. You are trembling right now even, even not use your original account. Still no pictures. You take paper, you write apricity on paper, date of today, phone number and post here and everybody believed you are great guy come one. You even dare say Pkk great, Turkey criminal in past, afraid of this? This is easy thing.

[meisje]

This is answer of keyboard warrior to challenge. Ha ha lol. You are trembling right now even, even not use your original account. Still no pictures. You take paper, you write apricity on paper, date of today, phone number and post here and everybody believed you are great guy come one. You even dare say Pkk great, Turkey criminal in past, afraid of this? This is easy thing.
Çekmeköy Mayavera Houses,Can I write openly ,Are you Imbecile-Retard or pretending to be as usual,Fuck off from here If you will not write your Address,You Little Ass Raped Chimpanzee

[Turkminator]

Dunai, you're not Magyar but a Danube Swabian, like the rest of you Kraut subhumans from Hungary. I know your anti-Turkic and Pan-germanic policy. In Germany too, I can still remember how a Hungarian was beaten up by you in a cultural center, because he gave a speech about Magyars and their Central Asian backrgound.

Here in the forum is still another Kraut-Subhuman who is posing as Magyare. Sekkmer is his name. The Magyars should push you together with the refugees in camps and deport to Germany.

[Böri]

Hands down ha ha Lol Baboon starts challenge and prove trembling. Everyone can write this, blogen lives also fiveth house in second street left, 200 meters right of AKM in Taksim square.

[blogen]

Using toponyms and personal names to detemine a gorup of peoples idendity is a very shaky method. Besides, I have never encountered a serious study that suggests such a structure within Kabars. Both in modern and historical sources they referred as just Turkic. So, you basically have no source and all of them are your interpretations.

These toponyms are ethnonyms: örs = Aorsi (Alan tribal name), szirák = Siraci (Alan tribal name), oszlár = As (Alan's self name) + lar (Turkic formative), varsány = from the oszlár, etc. These names are part of the conquest-age tribal-name origin toponym layer. The Khorezmian Iranian origin Káliz (Kabar) peoples were merchants, toll-collectors, bureaucrats in the Árpád-age kingdom. Even the Hungarian toll word (vám) origin from the iranian wām (debit) word and this is not a surprise becasue the ethnicity of the Kabar peoples.

The medieval sources talk about Iranians, for example Abu-Hamid from 1150: "countless Chwarezmian lives in Hungary", or Ioannes Kinnamos wrote in 1165: "the Kalizians faith identical with the Persian (Shia islam)". We have names from the Káliz peoples: Magiug = persian Mādzūdz for example. Etc.

[blogen]

Dunai, you're not Magyar but a Danube Swabian, like the rest of you Kraut subhumans from Hungary. I know your anti-Turkic and Pan-germanic policy. In Germany too, I can still remember how a Hungarian was beaten up by you in a cultural center, because he gave a speech about Magyars and their Central Asian backrgound.

Here in the forum is still another Kraut-Subhuman who is posing as Magyare. Sekkmer is his name. The Magyars should push you together with the refugees in camps and deport to Germany.

The Germans in Hungary are good Hungarians while the average Turkish in Hungary are an unintegrated muslim shit only whit a kebab store, drug business or both.

[meisje]

Hands down ha ha Lol Baboon starts challenge and prove trembling. Everyone can write this, blogen lives also fiveth house in second street left, 200 meters right of AKM in Taksim square.
Did You Shit your Pants When someone told You Write Your Address
I roll your Tongue to your Donkey Raped Ass You Little Whore ,When You Prove once again how coward You Are,Log Off and Get Lost ,Do not Waste My TİME

[Turkminator]

The Germans in Hungary are good Hungarians while the average Turkish in Hungary are an unintegrated muslim shit only whit a keban store, drug business or both.


You're one of this Krauts from Hungary too, Subhuman. Your origin has already been unmasked by many Magyars here. Now, get out my way.

[blogen]

Why do the Turkish lunatics flood this topic about the Hungarian genetics? We are Hungarians, we do not have any common case with the Anatolian Turkish!

[Böri]

keyboard warrior proved balloon. Blast. You arent like your suicide bomber bros. it's sad you finish evening like this haha. Lol. Now you can tremble still until tomorrow morning in your bed.

[meisje]

keyboard warrior proved balloon. Blast. You arent like your suicide bomber bros. it's sad you finish evening like this haha. Lol. Now you can tremble still until tomorrow morning in your bed.

Retarded Low Life Scum, Son Of Whore, I will only Tremble with your Whore Mom in My Bed

You still did not write your Address to me and call me Balloon, Low IQ Rape Product

I know how dumb you are but Your Trolling is getting boring, I gave you my address and You deny it with your Retarded Arguments, I feel sorry for you, I insult you-your

Mom everyday here in Turkish in English and Other Members also insult you heavily, You are probably most-hated, most-Insulted Person on TA, Whatever I write,

You will come back with another Retarded Message to me

[meisje]

keyboard warrior proved balloon. Blast. You arent like your suicide bomber bros. it's sad you finish evening like this haha. Lol. Now you can tremble still until tomorrow morning in your bed.

Oğlum sen ne salak adamsın lan,bana mı ozeniyorsun telefon falan istemeler,Orospunun Çocuğu Pic Kurusu,Ana Avrat sovuyoruz aynı şeyleri tekrarliyorsun sabah-aksam,Yarrak Beyinli,Git Modun Birine sor IP adresleri aynı mı Ben ile İnfinite 'in amina koyim ,zor bir şey değil,Göt Lalesi,Amcik Hosafi,Adresini yazsana görün yiyorsa,anında Yusuf Yusuf Oldun,Ezberledim artık ne yazacagini,Klasik Trollemelerin Siktigiminin Çocuğu,2 dakika adam ol da yalan konuşma,İt oğlu it sunepe seni,Sik Kafalı,1.60 boyunda cılız sikigin birisin büyük Çoğunluk,İşin Gücünde yok ne okul ne iş,Bütün gün Ana Avrat küfür yiyorsun herkesten,Aciyorum sana ilk geldiğimde beri bu siteye,Milletin gözünde ne bok olduğunun farkında değilsin

[Pennywise]

These toponyms are ethnonyms: örs = Aorsi (Alan tribal name), szirák = Siraci (Alan tribal name), oszlár = As (Alan's self name) + lar (Turkic formative), varsány = from the oszlár, etc. These names are part of the conquest-age tribal-name origin toponym layer. The Khorezmian Iranian origin Káliz (Kabar) peoples were merchants, toll-collectors, bureaucrats in the Árpád-age kingdom. Even the Hungarian toll word (vám) origin from the iranian wām (debit) word and this is not a surprise becasue the ethnicity of the Kabar peoples.

The medieval sources talk about Iranians, for example Abu-Hamid from 1150: "countless Chwarezmian lives in Hungary", or Ioannes Kinnamos wrote in 1165: "the Kalizians faith identical with the Persian (Shia islam)". We have names from the Káliz peoples: Magiug = persian Mādzūdz for example. Etc.

Dude, what are your SOURCES? Where all these informations coming from? From which study? All I can see is just some random suggestions or interpretations. They may have contain some Sarmatian and Alan tribes too but the Kabars were most definetly predominatly Turkic. Bring me a solid source that debunks this.

[Norse]

I'm quite surprised these new results haven't stirred any discussions. This new and by far most vast research seems to confirm that Old Hungarians had indeed a Turkic elite who were probably bilingual or already assimilated into commoner Old Hungarians (none-warrior majority), who were on the other hand Uralic people. Genetically Old Hungarians seem to have been closest to modern day Central Asians and Uralic people and quite distant from Modern Hungarians. This seems to suggest that Old Hungarians transmitted their culture and language to the indigenous Germanic and Slavic population of the Carpathian Basin, who ended up forming the Modern Hungarians who we all are today.

Interesting, however as I have read, the common opinion was already that by the time the Huns et al made it to Europe, they were already mixed of many different kinds of people, the majority European.

[Böri]

Son of Refugee woman not properly raped Russian forces in Transkavkaz, why still brown cant sleep day night. Lol. Plays tough but cant follow challenge. People still waiting for your signed picture keyboard warrior. I have it. It isn't like sending reputation comments threatening girls on TA. You are an excrement and nothing changes this, begging Zoran support don't change nothing you shit. At least that Kiro live Denmark you excrement in Turkey. This monkey is living proof why Hungary build anti immigrant fence, this is result when you allow apes.

[Turul Karom]

Interesting study; still reading up on it, though the results are not very surprising. The Ugric-Turkic mixture and cultures of many tribal founders is becoming ever more apparent as the Uralic-exclusive lies fall apart month by month. Culture, national myths, traditional food, drink, much of language and song are all clearly turkic in origin. A grand mixture of Turk, Ugric, and Euro to create the Magyars that dominated the Onogur confederation and found our home in the Carpathian basin. Thousands of years of war and occupation has obviously decimated much of the genetics of the founders, leading towards a more European flavor in today's Magyar, but what turkic nation is the same as it was 1000 years ago that has traveled so far from its origins? Hungary would be wise to use the obvious information to strengthen our relationships with kindred nations of same folklore and origin, as well as perform much wider and in-depth DNA tests amongst ethnic Magyars and magyarized turkic tribes post-honfoglalás. I found it interesting that Hungarians show more turkic influence along mtdna, just Turkish turks do. I'd imagine it has to do with the (progenitor) men mostly going off to fight, and as they die, are replaced by more mixed stock of native/nomad men, while the women remain far more safe from such genetic drift.

[blogen]

Dude, what are your SOURCES? Where all these informations coming from? From which study? All I can see is just some random suggestions or interpretations. They may have contain some Sarmatian and Alan tribes too but the Kabars were most definetly predominatly Turkic. Bring me a solid source that debunks this.

From the 10-12th century Arab and Byzantines sources and all of the contemporary Hungarian scientific source. We don't have evidence onto any Turkic Kabars. Zero. Presumably some Kabars were Turkic (because there were Turkic military elements in the Khorezmian state), but this is a supposition between the Hungarian scholars only.

Kabars = Khoresmians. They were refugees between the Khazars and refugees between the Magyars too. Their exodus started with the Arab conquest of Khorezm and with the Khorezmian civil war. They were not Khazars, only an Iranian ethnic element of the Khazar realm and they joined to the Magyars when the Khazar civil war started (or they were on the losing side).

[Turkminator]

Interesting study; still reading up on it, though the results are not very surprising. The Ugric-Turkic mixture and cultures of many tribal founders is becoming ever more apparent as the Uracil-exclusive lies fall apart month by month. Culture, national myths, traditional food, drink, much of language and song are all clearly turkic in origin. A grand mixture of Turk, Ugric, and Euro to create the Magyars that dominated the Onogur confederation and found our home in the Carpathian basin. Thousands of years of war an occupation has obviously decimated much of the genetics of the founders, leading towards a more European flavor in today's Magyar, but what turkic nation is the same as it was 1000 years ago that has traveled so far from its origins? Hungary would be wise to use the obvious information to strengthen our relationships with kindred nations of same folklore and origin, as well as perform much wider and in-depth DNA tests amongst ethnic Magyars and magyarized turkic tribes post-honfoglalás. I found it interesting that Hungarians show more turkic influence along mtdna, just Turkish turks do. I'd imagine it has to do with the (progenitor) men mostly going off to fight, and as they die, are replaced by more mixed stock of native/nomad men, while the women remain far more safe from such genetic drift.

Any proof for this claim?

[Turul Karom]

Any proof for this claim?

Of course, friend. This entire journal entry, albeit lengthy, is quite good as discussing mtdna vs. y-DNA markers of nomads and the diversity of them, as well as the percentages of Central Asian mingrants that were women vs. men. Here is a notable excerpt for now.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v12/n6/full/5201160a.html

"Contrary to the structure shown in Y-chromosome lineages in Central Asia, where 24% of the genetic variation could be attributed to differences between populations,10 mtDNA diversity is not structured, as shown by the AMOVA analysis. This discrepancy between the two uniparental genomic regions in Central Asia is in agreement with previous data in the region,7 and as a global trend in which higher female than male migration has been observed.54"

Here is another:

Mergen, Hatice; Öner, Reyhan; Öner, Cihan (2004). "Mitochondrial DNA sequence variation in the Anatolian Peninsula (Turkey)" (PDF). Journal of Genetics. 83 (1): 39–47. doi:10.1007/bf02715828. PMID15240908

“According to a different genetic research on 75 individuals from various parts of Turkey, Mergen et al. revealed that the "genetic structure of the mtDNAs in the Turkish population bears similarities to Turkic Central Asian populations

Please compare these with the figures provided for Turkic and proto-Turkic DNA for y-DNA members. Many times it is not explicitly stated, but it is easier to observe higher turkic mtdna than y-dna in populations, I believe, because of males going to war. The child mortality rates of the time would also place more emphasis on the protection and survival of women who could reproduce.

Naturally, given the diversity of turkic peoples and tribes and the sheer distances and time spans of their travels, your results will vary from geographical location to geographical location. I will find more studies for you amongst my notes if you would like. This is a bit unrelated to Hungary in particular, but I found this poster's notes interesting to read from his own sources as well: http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12288 because it shows the diversity amongst y haplogroups of the many turkic peoples today. It shows how much we have changed over time, while still holding onto our cultural and familial roots in Asia.

[Dunai]

Dunai, you're not Magyar but a Danube Swabian, like the rest of you Kraut subhumans from Hungary. I know your anti-Turkic and Pan-germanic policy. In Germany too, I can still remember how a Hungarian was beaten up by you in a cultural center, because he gave a speech about Magyars and their Central Asian backrgound.

Here in the forum is still another Kraut-Subhuman who is posing as Magyare. Sekkmer is his name. The Magyars should push you together with the refugees in camps and deport to Germany.

Only 2 of my 16 great-great-grandparents were Danube Swabians, the rest were purely Hungarians, but overall I only identify with my Hungarian side (while being very sympathetic to my small German side), thus what you wrote is pure xenophobic fallacy.

[Dunai]

Interesting, however as I have read, the common opinion was already that by the time the Huns et al made it to Europe, they were already mixed of many different kinds of people, the majority European.

Huns definitely shouldn't be confused with Magyars. Regarding Huns, they were a pan-racial confederation of nations, and yes, many Europeans have joined them more willingly or unwillingly. But the ethnic core of the Huns always remained the Central Asian type.

[AlbaCaZapada]

Dunai the clown and blogen the retard.I have told you from the first day I joined this forum that hungarians are nothing more than POLITICALLY MAGYARISED SLAVS(~40%),GERMANS+VLACHS(TOGHETER ~30%) with the rest being other european populations spiced up by non-european ones(gypsy,jews etc).


Hungarians are caucasian for the same reason Bulgars and Serbia have southern European complexions instead of looking like Russians, why Turks look very European compared to Madjars and Volga Bulgars and why most englishmen are not blond and blue eyed despite the region being conqured by scandinavians three times in 500 years.
When a nomadic people usually conquer a region they manage to impose thier culture but eventually get absorbed by the native population due to their low numbers. The same thing happened with the magyars who never numbered more than 1000 families (meaning 50.000-100.000 people) in total after they left Khazaria. In fact the Hungarian academy conducted two studies on the topic. One in the 1980s, when at then request of the communist party, they sent a scientific expedition in Central Asia to find the birthplace of the hungarian language. They discovered a people called the Madjars who spoke a very similar language. They were turkic.
The second one occurred in the 1990s when the same Hungarian Academy conducted a fairly extensive genetic survey of Hungary's population. They found that most of the Hungarians living east of the Danube were genetically indistinguishable from Romanians (in North-East & East Hungary) and Serbs (South-East and south), while those living west were basically all Slovaks and Czechs with a significant Germanic influence.

The Scythian story was invented in 1987 by that raving lunatic Ilyes Elmer. The Scythians were Iranians mixed with balts and proto-slavs. They spoke a Indo-European language belonging to the Satem branch, they had no connection with the magyars or modern day hungarian language.
The Hun story is the result of standard medieval thinking. If you keep hearing tales about fearsome horse people highly skilled with the bow who called themselves
Huns and you meat a group of fearsome horse people highly skilled with the bow logic dictates that you label them Huns. The Byzantines called all nomads they ecountered Scythians because they fought like Scythians. That includes the Mongoloid Avars, the turkic Pechenegs and the turks themselves.

[AlbaCaZapada]

But Romance loan words came much later into Hungarian language (11th century onward), even after Latin words were adopted through to the missionary work of Western Catholic priests, and these were of Western Romance origin, while Eastern Romance (Vlach) loan words are quite few and date even later. However Hungarian adopted many loanwords from Slavic and German language that was found in the Carpathian Basin, from as early as settling here in the 10th century, but no East Romance words. I wouldn't even start about the complete lack of archaeological evidence of Vlach settlements in the Carpathian Basin in the 10th century.



I am waiting for the day Hungary is split between its neighbors, only then will the dead find peace, from the magyar disease they contracted 1000 years ago.

Dunai,ou are very arrogant, as expected from hungarians.Archaelogists already proved that what you are saying is totally false.


>But Romance loan words came much later into Hungarian language (11th century onward),

Obviously, because only starting very late in the 11th century, magyars started settling in the mountains,it took them over 250 years to conquer Transylvania(I guess why :)))).Appony himself, the Hungarian statesman who unleashed the most ferocious Magyarization campaign of the non-Magyars in Great Hungary before World War I, describes the Magyar invasion of Europe: "In the basin of the middle Danube, the Hungarians did not occupy the same territories as the other peoples of the Great Migration. They settled down solely on the lands best suitable for the cultivation of steppe plants...", which is Pannonia. That certainly leaves out the hilly and mountainous land of Transylvania. (Appony, Note XII of January 21, 1920, "Les negociations of the paix hongroise ", Vol. I, p. 420).

Romance speakers existed in the whole Carphatian Basin since 3th century traced atleast.In Panonia untill 6th century existed a distinct romance language.Invaded by slavs, this language went extinct.Then only the East-Romance speakers visited Panonia to herd the sheep(in the spring Panonia has the most fertile herding land in Europe!) from 6-9th century, as attested by both chronicles/writtings(of vlach migration from N to S and of vlachs cohabitating with goths then huns and then avars!) and archaelogy, and were this time driven out by magyars into Greece(today they call themselvs aromanians).

Not only Transylvania was inhabited before magyar shitskins , but also Panonia.

1) Anonymus, Gesta Hungarorum:
-“Rex Athila… de terra scithica descendens cum valida manu in terram Pannonie venit, et fugatis Romanis, regnum obtinuit” (C. 1)
-“Et iure terra Pannonie Pascua Romanorum esse dicebatur, nam et modo Romani pascuntur de bonis Ungarie” (C. 9)
-“Et mortuo illo preoccupassent Romani principes terram Pannonie usque ad Danubium, ubi collocassent pastores suos” (C. 11)
2) Oto de Deogilo, French chronicler, Liber de via Sancti Sepulchri, p. 60
-“Terra hec (Ungaria) in tantum pabulosa est, ut dicantur in ea pabula Julii Caesaris extitisse.”
3) Thomas Spalatensis, Historia Salonitana, p. 549
-“Haec region dicitur antiquitus fuisse Pascua Romanorum.”
4)Richardus, De facto Ungarie Magne, p. 248
-“Ungaria dicitur, tum vero dicebatur Pascua Romanorum, quam inhabitandam pre terries ceteris elegerunt, subiectis sibi populis, qui tunc habitant ibidem.”
5) Simon de Keza, Gesta Hungarorum, IV, 32
-“Blackis, qui ipsorum fuere pastores et coloni remanentibus sponte in Pannonia” [Note: Blackis means "Romanian", derived from the word "vlach". Simon de Keza is literally saying that the Romanians stayed in Pannonia as colonists even after Attila left.]
-“Ulahis advenis remanentibus in eadem qui vivente Ethela populari servicio sibi serviebant.” [This quote literally says the Romanians (Ulahis) remained in Pannonia during the time of Attila and even afterwards]

This is further strengthened by the fact that Hungarians referred to Southern Pannonia up until the 16th century as "az Olahok" [note: Olah = Romanian in Hungarian].

-Descriptio Europae Orientalis 1308

"It is worth mentioning that here, between Macedonia,Achaia and Thessaloniki, a determinate people are to be found.
Large in number and spread throughout the land,the people are called "Blachi", who in ancient times were sheperds of the Romans, and, because of the
fertile and green terrain, once inhabited Hungary, where the pasturelands of the Romans were to be found.But eventually, after being driven out of there by the HUNGARIANS,they reached other places.They have cheese in abudance, and more milk and meat than other nations."

-According to Strategikon of Kekaumenos (1066), the Vlachs of Epirus and Thessalia came from north of the Danube and from along the Sava."These /Vlachs/ are, in fact, the so-called Dacians, also called Bessians. Earlier they lived in the vicinity of the Danube and Saos, a river which we now call Sava, where the Serbians live today, and /later/ withdrew to their inaccessible fortifications. (...) And these left the region: some of them were dispersed to Epirus and Macedonia, and a large number established themselves in Hellas."

-In the chronicle of Simon of Keza (1282 to 1290), the Vlachs of Pannonia are mentioned as a settled population after the collapse of the Hunnish imperiu, paralel with Weltchronik of Rudolph von Ems, written circa 1250, mention Vlachs living in Pannonia.

Nestor's Chronicle, (1097-1110), relating events from 862 to 1110, mentions Wallachians attacking and subduing the Slavs north of Danube and settling among them. [25] {{Quote|For many years the Slavs lived beside the Danube, where the Hungarian and Bulgarian lands now lie. From among these Slavs, parties scattered throughout the country and were known by appropriate names, according to the places where they settled. Thus some came and settled by the river Morava, and were named Moravians, while others were called Czechs. Among these same Slavs are included the White Croats, the Serbs, and the Khorutanians. For when the Vlakhs attacked the Danubian Slavs, settled among them, and did them violence, the latter came and made their homes by the Vistula, and were then called Liakhs. (...) [40]
Coming from the east, they /the Magyars/ marched in haste over the high mountains, which are called the mountains of the Magyars, and began to fight against the Volochi (??????) and the Slavs who inhabited these countries. The Slavs had originally lived there, and the Volochi (????????) had subdued the country of the Slavs. Later, however, the Magyars drove out the Volochi , subdued the Slavs, and settled in their country. Since then, that region has been called Hungary.|Primary Chronicle [40]







>lack of archaeological evidence of Vlach settlements in the Carpathian Basin in the 10th century.

1.There is no such thing as 'Vlach' ethnic identity, it's a name given by slavs to romance speakers.
2.There are hundreds of sites proving roman continuation just in today Transylvania, and even more of autochtonous pre-roman population.For simplicity, I will yet again post just the roman ones, for the later visit romanian archaelogy institute at cimec.ro

Here's a list of all the archaeological sites in the 3 counties forming Central Transylvania (Cluj, Alba and Mures), as published by professor Linda Ellis of the San Francisco State University in the journal "World Archaeology" vol 30, 1998, the article aptly named "Terra Deserta: population, politics and the [de]colonization of Dacia":

40 sites in Cluj county, covering the 4th to 10th century AD
57 sites in the Alba county, covering the 4th to 13th century AD
211 sites in Mures county, covering the 5th to 10th century AD

Terra Deserta: population, politics and the [de]colonization of Dacia:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/124984

RCHAEOLOGICAL PROOFS OF THE DACO-ROMANIAN CONTINUITY IN
TRANSYLVANIA BETWEEN V-X CENTURIES A.D.:


1. The vax tablets (jurisdictio tabulae) from the gold mines at Alburnus Maior (modern, Rosia).
2.The composition of coins discoveries (all in the Latin language) in the V Century at Sarmizegetusa, at Orsova and Racajdia (in Banat), at Hunedoara, near Targu-Mures and, in the northeast, near Dej.
3.The paleo-Christian vestiges, all, exclusively Romanians (V century).
4.The stoneware and pottery objects in the central Transilvania, at Moresti and Bandul de Campie, that looks alike to those discovered at Sarata-Monteoru(the archaeological science type).
5.More than 50 (fifty) archaeological discoveries (VI-VII Centuries) being a reflexion of the autochton culture with Gepid influences (centrate in Pannonia); the generic type of those discoveries is called "Santana de Mures - Cerneahov" type, concerning the monnetary circulation, the Christian Romanian monuments (the Slavs and the Gepids were pagans!) and the cemeteries.
6.The paleo-Christian pots lid (at Tibiscum, VI Century).
7.The Romanian settlements from Baltei (near modern Medias), Cipau (near modern Ludus), Taga (near modern Gherla), Soporu de Campie (V-VI Centuries).
8.The Christian bronze earthen lamp (rush-light) discovered at Dej V-VI Centuries).
9.The "royal-feudalistic" citadel from Dabaca (near Gherla, on Samus Somes River); this citadel with palisade (!!!) of IX Century had belonged to Romanian Voivode Gelu (Blacus = Romanian in the Anonimus chronicle - Magister P.) and his ancestors.
10.The funeral stela from Casei.
11.The devotional cross found at Biertan is inscribed in Latin :"Ego
Zenovius votum posui" (I, Zenovius, brought this offering).
12.Latin inscriptions found on a brick unearthed at Gornea (in the
Banat) and on a bottom of a vessel at Porolissum (modern, Moigrad).
13.The autochtonous Romanian ninth and tenth Centuries artifacts
discovered at Dabaca : pottery, beads and silver buttons.
14.The archaeological research has located the 20 (twenty) settlements
in Menumorut's voivodate in Crisana (with the capital at Biharea,
near, present day, Oradea) - X Century.
15.The archaeological researches had located the 60(sixty) settlements
in Glad's voivodate in Banat (with the capital in Morisena, the modern
Cenad) - X Century.
16.The archaeological researches had, also, located the 40 (fourty)
settlements in Gelu's voivodate in central Transilvania (with the
capital at Dabaca, near the modern Cluj-Napoca) - X Century.
17.The fortress of Satu-Mare (IX Century).?

Lets post some more.There are a few hundred daco-roman sites from Aurelian Retreat to XII century, located in Transylvania.More on http://cronica.cimec.ro/ , the official romanian archaelogy website, most are translated in english and with photos.

st select some random ones, because being hundreds, this can take ages.

"Again on the Mures inferior valey , are found archaelogical objects like earthen lamps with cross sign,diverse latin icons and inscription from Felnac,Vladimirescu,Sambateni,Lipova,Bata,object used with certitute only and only by the daco-roman populations" Ziridava (revista Muzeului Judetean Arad), 1993

Some examples of daco-roman settlements of the romanised dacian populations:

Suceagu (Cluj) Early Roman (1st - 3rd cent.); Early Migrations Period (3rd - 6th cent.)

http://cronica.cimec.ro/detail.asp?k=635

Rural unfortified settlement; Cercetari sistematice si de salvare; 1989, 1991-1992. Dwelling were dug both from surface and deep.Archaelogically, no discontinuation of population was found.A workshop for bone processing was found from IV century.The archaelogical amterial was extremly rich:ceramics,lamps,fibulae,iron objects,grinders,tuff,terra sigillata, an inscription fragment from the Roman era,gray polished ceramic(many intact plates),iron objects,bone artefacts ornamnted,spindles,sandstone,an iron fibula,pottery worked by hand of dacian origin from IV-V,rough paste ceramics.2 ovens for ceramic burning,dated based on ceramics on III-IV.

Vladiceasca (Ilfov) (end of V - start of VI)Late Migrations Period (VII - XIth cent.)

http://cronica.cimec.ro/detail.asp?k=301

Ill just quote the V-VI period

The typology of the ceramics makes us to frame, for the moment, this complexes at the end of V and the first half of VI.Excavations from Vladiceasca releaved yet again another settlement of the romanised population in an area of Vlasiei Plain, less explored so far.


Berghin (Alba) Late Migrations Period (7th - 11th cent.)

http://cronica.cimec.ro/detail.asp?k=59

In conclusion, this years excavations have revealed new testimonies regarding the romanisation process of the autochtonous dacians in the Roman rule in Dacia and in the process of the romanian population formation(VII-VIII)

And a very interesting and important archaelogical site :

Sighisoara Late Medieval; Prehistory;

ttp://cronica.cimec.ro/detail.asp?k=7

This city area is inahbited, with minor intrerruptions, for about 4000 years, being archaelogical certified a settlement from bronze age, 2 dacian settlements from iron age,a roman fort for road guarding, a daco-roman settlement and their descendents.

They executed two sections (12.50 x 2 m, respectively, 14.50 x 2 m) in order to explore the upper north-north-east of the necropolis remained unexplored. During investigations 81 graves of cremation have been identified , which raises the number of funerary complexes uncovered so far to 610. Of these, 52 tombs belong to the Dacian population identified in the settlement of the village precincts during the Roman period (II-III century AD). The graves are oval, circular, diamond or rectangular contour and are marked by river boulders. Of the earth filling of the sepulchral holes were collected Dacian and Roman pottery fragments, pieces of coal and scrap of calcined human bones, one portion of a glass and bronze bracelets, etc.. The other 29 tombs are with cremation urns (26) or simple holes (3) featuring the prefeudal cemetery (VII-VIII century AD). Urns containing cremated remains of the defunct (whole and fragmented bones), pieces of coal and various pieces of bronze (one ear from an earring wire), iron (staples, hook, buckles with spin, nails, knife blades, etc.). and Stone (tips, blades, etc..). It is noted that 601 M is as white (126 x 78 cm) and contains a large quantity of scrap cinerary, especially charcoal and burnt earth, calcined bone chips and a few scattered pottery fragments from a vessel broken on the ritual pyre. In conclusion, this year's excavations have revealed further testimony about the process of Romanization of the indigenous Dacians during the Roman domination in Dacia and during the formation of the Romanian people (VII-VIII century AD).

The following locations show continuous Daco-Roman habitation from the 3rd to the 5th century [75]
Mines: Baia de Cris, Tincova, Ruda, Alun, Hunedoara, Baita Cib, Fizes, Cabesti, Videim, Albac, Bistrita de Sus, Vidra, Cimpeni Lupsa, Salciua, Podeni, Potaissa, Baisoara, Valea Ierii.
Monetary thesauri: Bicasi, Pilu, Carei, Copalnic, Soimuseni, Doba Mica, Simieu Silvaniei, Porolissum, Babiu, Gurani, Sintna, Arad, Pecica, Cenad, Horia, Biled, Carani, Jimbova, Checea, Unip, Faget, Debra, Deva, Huedoara, Sepes, Ungureni, Apulum, Seica Mica, Seica Mare, Sura Mare, Sibiu, Ocna Sibiului Soars, Lasiea
Daco-Roman and Roman settlements: Taga, Soporu, Band, Lechinta, Ludus, Cipau, Brateiu, Seica Mica, Biertan, Sighisoara, Sinpaul, Morada, Ineu, Pilu, Biharia, Berca, Mediesu Aurit, Apa, Dej, Rascruci, Napoca, Baciu, Sebes, Hatg, Deva, Debra, Apulum, Gura Vaii, Cazanesti, Hateg, Faroia.
Major Cities and forts: Deva, Hateg, Hunedoara, Sighisoara, Ulpia Traiana Sarmisegetuza, Bistrita, Bicasi.
Bridges: Apulum
The cultural elements and styles of archaeological artefacts discovered over the period of the 3rd-5th centuries show a clear material and stylistic continuity, indicating continuous habitation by the same people. The cultural character of the findings remains the same until the 6th century, with the arrival of the Slavs. [76]
Ceramic manufacturing traditions continue from the pre-Roman to the Roman era continue both in Roman Dacia and unoccupied Dacia, and these traditions continue well into the fourth and fifth centuries. [77]
Cemeteries in Roman Dacia show cremation consistently across every necropolis, a pre-Roman Dacian tradition. Materials buried with cremated people are comparable both in Roman and in Free Dacia suggesting the native population did not suffer materially due to Roman occupation. [78]
Though there is a change from cremation to inhumation in the post-Roman period inhumation was an increasingly popular concept in the 3rd century. The rich ceramic remains in these necropoli are identical in technology to pre-Roman and Roman era tombs, including the presence of Roman amphorae and wheel-made, gravel-tempered, or hand-made pots. [79]
A noteworthy aspect of third to fifth century graves is the widespread distribution (from Transylvania to the Ukrainian border) and substantial number of objects of Roman manufacture, in excellent condition, which must be indicative of an active system of exchange. [80]
Archaeological surveys of the Banat region record numerous settlements, storage pits, pottery kilns, glass furnaces, metallurgical production sites, and coins (both as hoards and found on sites) [81] which indicate a continuation of both sedentary population and maintenance of Roman military and economic interests. [82]
Circulation of Roman coins grew both in Roman and Free Dacia in the 1st and 2nd centuries, declining in the third but then rising again since the 4th century [83] The extent and increase in coin circulation even after the Roman withdrawal from Dacia and as far north as Transcarpathia is argued by some prominent archaeologists to have no other analogy in neighboring provinces, nor in any other barbarian territory [84]
Some cities show the absence of Dacian names completely from inscriptions but which show Dacian burial rituals, indicating that Dacians near urban centers were rapidly Romanized, adopting Roman names but maintaining their old traditions. [85]
Archaeological digs throughout Transylvania and Romania have discovered many clay pots dating from the IV, V, VI, and VII centuries. What makes these pots particularly interesting is that they were made using the potter's wheel, an invention which no migratory people had when the came through Romania. The only population which could have produced these pots is one which had sufficient contact with the Roman and Hellenic world to adopt this style of making pots. We know the Slavs did not adopt this style until much later because pots made without the use of the potter's wheel are also found throughout Romania during this time. [22]
The thousands of old Roman coins dating from the IV, V and VI centuries found on Romania are peculiar because they are a) made of bronze and b) show the portrait of contemporary emperors on them. The first part affirms that these coins were not valuable, meaning that they were common currency. There is no way such coins could have found their way into Romania through tribute or trade between the Romans and barbarians because the Goths, Avars, Huns, and others would only accept gold coins and items as tribute, as bronze coins had little value or use to them. The material indicates that these coins were used as a common bartering currency for low-value items (like food or iron) by a poor populace. Their number, and the diverse locations that they've been found in, indicates that this populace was large, and spread all over the country. The second aspect reflects the historical fact that there was significant communication between this proto-Romanian populace and the Roman Empire, enough to allow for the accurate re-minting of coins. Even if the coins were imported by the proto-Romanians from the Romans, it still is evidence of significant contact between the Romans and the Romanians North of the Danube. [22]
A Daco-Roman necropolis was discovered in Sibiu belonging to the local population, which had, among the objects buried with the deceased, ceramic objects of Roman cultural origin, coins from the time of Antonius Pius (138-161) and Septimius Sever (193-211) and vases made in the Dacian style. [22] [86]

During the 5th-7th centuries houses all over Romania are noted as having "vatra" ovens, being ovens made of clay and surrounded by stones. These ovens could not have belonged to the Slavs who had a different style of construction, and is noticeable in Dacian-occupied areas in Romania during the 1st-3rd century. Traditional Roman ovens were also discovered in the same area as these "vatra ovens." [87]

[AlbaCaZapada]

Only 2 of my 16 great-great-grandparents were Danube Swabians, the rest were purely Hungarians, but overall I only identify with my Hungarian side (while being very sympathetic to my small German side), thus what you wrote is pure xenophobic fallacy.

THERE
IS
NO
SUCH
THING
AS
PURE
HUNGARIANS

YOU
ARE
THE
MONGRELS
OF
YOUR
NEIGHBORS
SPEAKING
A
UGLY
HORSE
LANGUAGE

[AlbaCaZapada]

The Magyars should push you together with the refugees in camps and deport to Germany.

Only if they found a magyar in Hungary.99% of today inhabitants in Hungary have no genetic connection with magyars.The few turanic elements in hungarians is from recent nomadic turk populations.

[blogen]

Nah, one thing is worse than the Anatolian shit: the Romanian. :D

[AlbaCaZapada]

Nah, one thing is worse than the Anatolian shit: the Romanian. :D

Dont you mean rumanian?Making progresses I see. xD

[AlbaCaZapada]

A bunch of hungarians roleplaying as madjars.The Stockholm syndrome is very strong with this ones.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rvPRSlkzAdg/U5nJ7N1TTcI/AAAAAAAAfZE/41hqrZnvZA0/s1600/MagyarTurn.jpg

http://www.voxeurop.eu/files/images/article/hungary-turan.jpg

[Dunai]

I debunked your scientifically very inconsistent and false conclusions many months ago in a long series of replies, before the site crashed. Just by reposting them here en masse, being totally off-topic, still won't bring any validity to your xenophobic, butthurt, irrational delusions.

[AlbaCaZapada]

I debunked your scientifically very inconsistent and false conclusions many months ago, before the site crashed, just by reposting them here en masse, being totally off-topic, still won't bring any validity to your xenophobic, butthurt, irrational delusions.

What if I told you that you didnt and the last posts are mine in every of your threads?You were lucky they ip banned me and deleted my posts, but that didnt stop me from making 2 weeks after an account and have the last post where I mocked your 20th century made theory as well as your lack of proofs.

[blogen]

Anyway. This and previous mtDNA investigation proved the fact: the contemporary Hungarian population is mostly direct descendants of those Central-Asian poupulations, whom had ancient Magyar affiliation/relation. Of course, there is a significant admixture with the local Slavic populations, but the urban legend about the extinct old Magyars is pure bullshit. The contemporary Magyar's majority are mostly the direct descendants of the old Magyars. And this refuted an other stupidity about the old Magyars. They were mostly carriers of western- and central-Eurasian genes and not eastern-Eurasians (the excavated anthropological situation was paralell: Europids with an Europo-Mongoloid minority in the 10th century between the ethnic Magyars).

[AlbaCaZapada]

"Groundbreaking" my ass.There were multiple genetic studies done decades ago.

Here's a way better and cheaper offer for hungarians to see if they are magyar.I sell those for 100EUR each and the test can be done at home!!!

https://www.freeonlinemirror.com/img/mirror.jpg

By the way Dunai, Groundbreaking and new are synonymous :))))))

[AlbaCaZapada]

Anyway. This and previous mtDNA investigation proved the fact: the contemporary Hungarian population is mostly direct descendants of those Central-Asian poupulations, whom had ancient Magyar affiliation/relation. Of course, there is a significant admixture with the local Slavic populations, but the urban legend about the extinct old Magyars is pure bullshit. The contemporary Magyar's majority are mostly the direct descendants of the old Magyars. And this refuted an other stupidity about the old Magyars. They were mostly carriers of western- and central-Eurasian genes and not eastern-Eurasians (the excavated anthropological situation was paralell: Europids with an Europo-Mongoloid minority in the 10th century between the ethnic Magyars).

Since Hungarian government no longer gives the lithium pills free of charge, it seems dement people like blogen have their way.

Hungarians have no genetic affliation with magyars or any central asian population for that matter.

[Dunai]

"Groundbreaking" my ass.There were multiple genetic studies done decades ago.

Here's a way better and cheaper offer for hungarians to see if they are magyar.I sell those for 100EUR each and the test can be done at home!!!



By the way Dunai, Groundbreaking and new are synonymous :))))))

This is by far the study with the largest sample of mitochondrial DNA taken from Old Hungarians analyzed by the most up to date scientific standards, that's why it makes most older studies seem quite obsolete, which usually had very small sample size, or were selected only from very few locations. Read the methodology of the study that is in the article, it should be very easy to comprehend even for skewed-brained individuals as yourself.

[AlbaCaZapada]

This is by far the study with the largest sample of mitochondrial DNA taken from Old Hungarians analyzed by the most up to date scientific standards, that's why it makes most older studies seem quite obsolete, which usually had very small sample size, or were selected only from very few locations. Read the methodology of the study that is in the article, it should be very easy to comprehend even for skewed-brained individuals as yourself.

mtDna is irrelevant your study shows that the females magyar and avar were central-asiatic.At the next christmas, shot me up with your email and adress, ill buy you some glasses xD

The conqueror population has a similar haplogroup composition to modern Central Asians and Finno-Ugric populations, which is also supported by Ward type clustering. While Avars rather showed modern European connections, the contact zone population had a Near Eastern type haplogroup composition.

The distance calculations based on high subhaplogroup resolution also showed that modern Central Asian populations were highly similar to the conqueror population. The maternal genetic connections of the Avar group concentrated on modern Eastern European populations, and the contact zone group showed Southwest Asian affinities on genetic distance maps (GDM)."

Avars were a even smaller population than magyars, this is why thei dissapeared so quickly out of history,so they were of asian-european stock, the european being of recent mix from carphatian basin.

tl;dr central asiatic magyars + finno-ugrics from Volga gang raped some carphatian basin european females, but they were quickly eradicated and assimilated by the carphatian basin men.


Like for example look at blogen, probably the off-spring of central asian soviet solders with hungarian european female.

[AlbaCaZapada]

Someone close this thread, I dont even know why it got so many replies when the conclusion is black-on-white clear on paper.

[Dunai]

mtDna is irrelevant your study shows that the females magyar and avar were central-asiatic.At the next christmas, shot me up with your email and adress, ill buy you some glasses xD

The conqueror population has a similar haplogroup composition to modern Central Asians and Finno-Ugric populations, which is also supported by Ward type clustering. While Avars rather showed modern European connections, the contact zone population had a Near Eastern type haplogroup composition.

The distance calculations based on high subhaplogroup resolution also showed that modern Central Asian populations were highly similar to the conqueror population. The maternal genetic connections of the Avar group concentrated on modern Eastern European populations, and the contact zone group showed Southwest Asian affinities on genetic distance maps (GDM)."

Avars were a even smaller population than magyars, this is why thei dissapeared so quickly out of history,so they were of asian-european stock, the european being of recent mix from carphatian basin.

tl;dr central asiatic magyars + finno-ugrics from Volga gang raped some carphatian basin european females, but they were quickly eradicated and assimilated by the carphatian basin men.


Like for example look at blogen, probably the off-spring of central asian soviet solders with hungarian european female.

Only somebody always being turned down by women can use such deplorable, misogynist language regarding them. This forum never ceases to amaze me how it manages to attract all these low-life loner types, that are on a constant mission to whine their miserable lives and lunatic ideas to other readers.

This Shaw quote comes to mind perfectly for such situation:
“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”

[AlbaCaZapada]

Only somebody always being turned down by women can use such deplorable, misogynist language regarding them. This forum never ceases to amaze me how it manages to attract all these low-life loner types, that are on a constant mission to whine their miserable lives and lunatic ideas to other readers.

This Shaw quote comes to mind perfectly for such situation:
“Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”

If I was a low-life loner type, i would spend my time on TA, like you.However I have better things to do and ocassionaly I come here to mock you senseless.I am not misogynist, for example in my highschool I was the only boy that gave flowers to teachers on female day :thumb001: What is wrong in the word ' raped'?Would you prefer 'forced sex' ?!

What I find intriguind is the fact that you attack a person that is 99% times more genetically closed to you than the persons who invented the language you speak :picard1:

edit:blogen,dunai and szegedist waiting for me to get banned so they can shit-talk of me after

[Not a Cop]

Anyway. This and previous mtDNA investigation proved the fact: the contemporary Hungarian population is mostly direct descendants of those Central-Asian poupulations, whom had ancient Magyar affiliation/relation. Of course, there is a significant admixture with the local Slavic populations, but the urban legend about the extinct old Magyars is pure bullshit. The contemporary Magyar's majority are mostly the direct descendants of the old Magyars. And this refuted an other stupidity about the old Magyars. They were mostly carriers of western- and central-Eurasian genes and not eastern-Eurasians (the excavated anthropological situation was paralell: Europids with an Europo-Mongoloid minority in the 10th century between the ethnic Magyars).

Actuallly this study says exactly the opposite: mtdna variation among current Hungarians is hundred times more west-eurasian than it was back in the time.

[blogen]

Actuallly this study says exactly the opposite: mtdna variation among current Hungarians is hundred times more west-eurasian than it was back in the time.

Where? :D

[Not a Cop]

Where? :D

Just compare mtdna frequences of modern Hungarians and this historical sample. Almost all eurasian stuff is gone.

[blogen]

Just compare mtdna frequences of modern Hungarians and this historical sample. Almost all eurasian stuff is gone.

And? The Eastern-Eurasian genes were tiny minority in the Hungarian conquerors gene pool and the carriers were mostly the elite (racially the conqueror common peoples were dominantly Europids, while their elite were Europo-Mongoloids). The common people's number more a hundred times larger since then, while we have only very few surviving conqueror origin noble families today, so this change is not a surprise! Hovewer, the average Hungarian conqueror's genetical background were identical with the average contemporary Hungarian's genetical heritage.

[blogen]

The assumable conqueror and the present common people's sample:
https://i.img.ie/001.jpg

And the short story how the common peoples's proportion was growing:
https://i.img.ie/00w.jpg