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The Ripper
10-06-2010, 02:20 PM
Refusal to undergo military service is seen as a liability for finding employment, according to the results of a survey of employers commissioned by the Ministry of Defence.
The poll indicated that 64 per cent of employers took a negative attitude toward men who refused both military service and its civilian alternative. The most negative attitudes are in Eastern and Southern Finland, and in the manufacturing and construction industries.
The survey was conducted by TNS Gallup, and was part of background research by a working group which recently came out with a number of proposals to reform Finland’s conscription system. It involved interviews with more than 500 people responsible for personnel management in various companies.

The size of the company seems to matter. Large enterprises take a more tolerant attitude than smaller ones.
In addition to the strongly negative view of total refusal of any kind of service, 64 per cent also felt that serving in the Defence Forces was preferable to alternative service performed by conscientious objectors.
Employers in the private sector, in small companies, and those located outside the larger cities were most likely to place considerable weight on military service. Public sector employers and large companies were less interested in the matter.

A few dozen young men who refuse both military service and its civilian alternative are imprisoned each year in Finland.
Kai Raninen, organisational secretary of the Finnish Union of Conscientious Objectors, is surprised at the employers’ attitude.
“The starting point should be that the decisions of each individual person should not have any bearing on his or her position in the labour market.”
Raninen feels that the answers reflect common Finnish attitudes. “Serving in the military is seen as self-evident in Finland, and it shows.”

The results did not come as a surprise to 20-year-old Ville Horila, who has refused both military and alternative service.
“The older generation especially had such a large burden from the war.”
Horila had served for just over two months in alternative service when he decided to refuse any further service. He received his jail sentence last summer, and now he is waiting for its implementation.

Horila has pondered what effect his decision might have on his future career.
“I have often thought optimistically that there would be no great significance for the kinds of work that I would seek. On the other hand, I have no desire to work for an employer for whom such a matter would be of importance.”
Horila believes that attitudes are getting better all the time.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Survey+reveals+negative+attitudes+among+employers+ toward+conscientious+objectors/1135260658430

Eldritch
10-06-2010, 06:58 PM
I guess the idea of the article is that being a CO shouldn't matter, and possibly that even some kind of affirmative action is needed to employ these idiots. Considering that both civil service and unarmed service in the military are both completely reasonable and accessible options, refusing even them really is a sure sign of immaturity or mental instability.

The Lawspeaker
10-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Agreed. But conscientious objectors should not have the right to join the police or to work as a security agent as it would involve having to deal with weapons and since that person refused to learn to defend his/her country why should someone run for office ?

Eldritch
10-06-2010, 07:14 PM
Agreed. But conscientious objectors should not have the right to join the police or to work as a security agent as it would involve having to deal with weapons and since that person refused to learn to defend his/her country why should someone run for office ?

The Security Intelligence Service has to clear anyone who applies for training in the police academy, and there is no way in Hell they'll accept a conscientious objector. It's extremely unlikely that someone like that would apply anyway.

Moonbird
10-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Well, I understand the employers. I wouldn't want to hire one of those guys myself.

SwordoftheVistula
10-10-2010, 06:57 AM
It makes sense, I don't know why they would expect otherwise. Even though I sympathize on philosophical grounds with the objection to compulsory service of any sort, these type of people are obviously troublemakers and the type to balk at directions, and likely to be troublesome employees who do not follow instructions, raise objections, and complain. I don't see why an employer would want to hire any of these people.

The Ripper
10-10-2010, 10:42 AM
Besides, military service is a merit, especially if it includes leadership training. Of course it will give an applicant the advantage over another without those merits on their CV.

Motörhead Remember Me
10-12-2010, 09:05 AM
I honestly do not care what you did when you were young...

Young people must be allowed to have a clear belief and live by their own principles. Everyone must take their stand for or against and live with it.

Remember the saying "if you're not a communist at 18 you're crazy, if you're not a capitalist by 40 you're crazy"

I for one am not the same person today as I was when I was 17-20.

I was almost a CO, now I own guns. I like guns. Bang, bang, shoot, shoot!

Motörhead Remember Me
10-12-2010, 09:08 AM
Besides, military service is a merit, especially if it includes leadership training.

Not always. There are several dickheads around who think they are something because they were appointed leaders in a secluded group..:)
Military leadership seldom makes good business leaders. Trust me. I've seen a lot of bad decisions made by this sort of people...

The Ripper
10-12-2010, 10:22 AM
Not always. There are several dickheads around who think they are something because they were appointed leaders in a secluded group..:)
Military leadership seldom makes good business leaders. Trust me. I've seen a lot of bad decisions made by this sort of people...

I don't agree with your reasoning. Leadership training is a merit, even if a few idiots have received it too.