R1b-M269 subclades in Poland

[Peterski]

My estimated (but based on few good sources) proportions of R1b subclades in Poland:



R1b-M269
= 16,5%






R-M269*
= 0,4%





L23(xL51)
= 3,5%






L23*
= 1,0%





Z2103
= 2,5%






Z2103>Y5587>BY593
= 1,5%





other Z2103>Y5587
= 0,5%





other Z2103
= 0,5%



L51(xL11)
= 0,3%





L11*
= 0,3%





P312
= 6,0%






P312*
= 0,3%





U152
= 3,4%






U152>L2>FGC8158
= 0,5%





other U152>L2
= 2,0%





other U152
= 0,9%




DF27
= 1,3%






DF27>Z196
= 1,0%





other DF27
= 0,3%




L21
= 1,0%




U106
= 6,0%






U106>L48
= 4,0%






L48>L47>Y6451
= 0,5%





other L48>L47
= 1,5%





L48>Z9
= 1,5%





other L48
= 0,5%




other U106
= 2,0%

[andorp]

this is quite interesting. I have just received the result from FTDNA that my grandfathers Y-haplogroup is R-BY593 (SNP-test, Z2103-SNP-pack, positive for the BY593-SNP but negative for SNP-Y14306). He was ethnic Hungarian, most likely from the northern part of the historial Hungary, so basically todays Slovakia, close to Poland. Where could I learn more about the origin and spread of BY593? Is it mainly in Polish people? Would it be meaningful to looking for surnames at this level?

[Peterski]

this is quite interesting. I have just received the result from FTDNA that my grandfathers Y-haplogroup is R-BY593 (SNP-test, Z2103-SNP-pack, positive for the BY593-SNP but negative for SNP-Y14306). He was ethnic Hungarian, most likely from the northern part of the historial Hungary, so basically todays Slovakia, close to Poland. Where could I learn more about the origin and spread of BY593? Is it mainly in Polish people? Would it be meaningful to looking for surnames at this level?

Z2103>Y5587>BY593 is generally common in East-Central and Eastern Europe, not just Polish.

[ALL]

this is quite interesting. I have just received the result from FTDNA that my grandfathers Y-haplogroup is R-BY593 (SNP-test, Z2103-SNP-pack, positive for the BY593-SNP but negative for SNP-Y14306). He was ethnic Hungarian, most likely from the northern part of the historial Hungary, so basically todays Slovakia, close to Poland. Where could I learn more about the origin and spread of BY593? Is it mainly in Polish people? Would it be meaningful to looking for surnames at this level?

Y14306 is only found in Poland[so far]. BY-593 stretches from Sweden Poland Czech Hungary Ukraine Romania Russia. Hungary also has Yamnaya and Bell Beaker R1b. He might be related to Szigetszentmiklós Cemetery (Santa's Six Foot Elves)
http://bellbeakerblogger.blogspot.com/2017/07/szigetszentmiklos-cemetery-santas-six.html


81194

https://www.persee.fr/doc/mom_2259-4884_2012_act_58_1_3493

[indo-uralopean]

R1b-M269 Origins.

https://i.postimg.cc/jqwg8jbP/r1b.png (https://postimages.org/)

[andorp]

Thank you for the information. I looked at your blog, and the PDF, too. The essay about the Szigetszentmiklós Cemetery was a particularly intersting one, especially the coincidence that the Y-chromosome haplogroup in grave 688 was Z2103 and a possible scenario about the merge of the Yamanaya and Bell Beaker cultures.

What could be the reason that a young clade such as BY-593, which was formed only ca. 2000 ybp became generally common in East-Central and Eastern Europe (according to information from Peterski) and so widespread geographically (Sweden Poland Czech Hungary Ukraine Romania Russia)?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that 2000 ybp (=year before present?) corresponds to 1 AD, which was not so many generations ago. Is it "normal" that one single male living around 1 AD can have so many direct descendants that they constitute 1,5% of Polish men? That would mean hundreds of thousands of men only in Poland. Can this be explained by the expansion of the population in Europe between 1 AD and present (i.e. the single living male in which the BY593 mutation first appeared constituted 1,5% of the males in the group that today populates Poland?

(we have no data about the frequency of BY593 in other countries as far as I know it, that's why Poland)

[ALL]

Thank you for the information. I looked at your blog, and the PDF, too. The essay about the Szigetszentmiklós Cemetery was a particularly intersting one, especially the coincidence that the Y-chromosome haplogroup in grave 688 was Z2103 and a possible scenario about the merge of the Yamanaya and Bell Beaker cultures.

What could be the reason that a young clade such as BY-593, which was formed only ca. 2000 ybp became generally common in East-Central and Eastern Europe (according to information from Peterski) and so widespread geographically (Sweden Poland Czech Hungary Ukraine Romania Russia)?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that 2000 ybp (=year before present?) corresponds to 1 AD, which was not so many generations ago. Is it "normal" that one single male living around 1 AD can have so many direct descendants that they constitute 1,5% of Polish men? That would mean hundreds of thousands of men only in Poland. Can this be explained by the expansion of the population in Europe between 1 AD and present (i.e. the single living male in which the BY593 mutation first appeared constituted 1,5% of the males in the group that today populates Poland?

(we have no data about the frequency of BY593 in other countries as far as I know it, that's why Poland)
Long time ago I speculated that R1b-BY593 might be connected with Sarmatians/ALANS.
R1b in Jászság, Hungary
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Jaszsag?iframe=yresults
R1b1a2a2c1 Z2105+, CTS9219+, Y5586+, Ossetians/Alans,
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ossetian?iframe=yresults

Alegno is close to Trent[Sarmatian/Alan units drafted into Roman army to protect borders]
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=81194&d=1540335714
http://www.marres.education/sarmatic_traces.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v2RgBocZh4

http://homeland.ku.dk/

81209

[Roy]

Thank you for the information. I looked at your blog, and the PDF, too. The essay about the Szigetszentmiklós Cemetery was a particularly intersting one, especially the coincidence that the Y-chromosome haplogroup in grave 688 was Z2103 and a possible scenario about the merge of the Yamanaya and Bell Beaker cultures.

What could be the reason that a young clade such as BY-593, which was formed only ca. 2000 ybp became generally common in East-Central and Eastern Europe (according to information from Peterski) and so widespread geographically (Sweden Poland Czech Hungary Ukraine Romania Russia)?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that 2000 ybp (=year before present?) corresponds to 1 AD, which was not so many generations ago. Is it "normal" that one single male living around 1 AD can have so many direct descendants that they constitute 1,5% of Polish men? That would mean hundreds of thousands of men only in Poland. Can this be explained by the expansion of the population in Europe between 1 AD and present (i.e. the single living male in which the BY593 mutation first appeared constituted 1,5% of the males in the group that today populates Poland?

(we have no data about the frequency of BY593 in other countries as far as I know it, that's why Poland)

Some blind luck or some chieftain having a lot of male off-spring and limiting other men from procreation for some time. It is really not that much, keep in mind that like 8% of males in the former Mongolian Empire and 24% of Mongolians are direct paternal line descendents of Ghenghis Khan after all. And it is much more recent history than this Polish clad.