R1b-M343 Negroid origin , Genghis Khan, Mongoloid origin ? R1b spread by rape during Mongol empire

[ButlerKing]

All of this is so crazy !!!


Negroid : R1b-M343 reaches 92% - 97% in the Chadic people of Africa and they are the most Blackest Negroid looking Sub-Saharan people you'll ever see.



https://joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p10166.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0weSbf0TsZ0



Mongoloid origin

I know this is a theory. But it claim Genghis Khan may had been R1b


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161622

" Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup. Thus, their East Asian D4 or CZ matrilineal and West Eurasian R1b-M343 patrilineal origins reveal genealogical admixture between Caucasoid and Mongoloid ethnic groups, despite a Mongoloid physical appearance. "

" All physical anthropological parameters indicate that the skulls of the Tavan Tolgoi graves were all anthropologically Mongoloid "

" That is, although members of Golden family were physically Mongoloid, their molecular genealogy revealed the admixture between Caucasoid and Mongoloid ethnic groups "


The paper even even says R1b was spread by Mongols conquering western countries ?

" Similarly, the high frequency of R1b-M343 in geographic regions associated with the past Mongol khanates including the Golden Horde (from Ural Mountain to Western Siberia, which includes Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan), Ilkhanate (Iran and neighboring territories including Armenia, Turkey, Georgia, Afghanistan, Syria, and Tajikistan), and Chagatai Khanate (from the Aral sea to the Altai mountain, including Pakistan (Hazara), Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, India, and China), strongly suggest a close association between the Y haplotype R1b-M343 and the past Mongol Empire "

Does this mean R1b was Mongoloid ?

[Ülev]

R1ethelites people pride

[ButlerKing]

This guy thinks the Mongols were mostly R1a

He blame the R1a ancestors for making the Asian males like Mongols for being rapists Lol.

( Basically he is saying the Negroid and Asian who commit violent crimes, rape, murder is due to their white ancestry ).


Central Asia = Caucasian females raped by Mongoloid Asian males with R1a ???

R1b and R1a = Rapist DNA ???

http://i67.tinypic.com/2r1zrd5.jpg



The picture in the link is this

--------> http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/kyrgyz-soldiers-take-part-in-the-victory-day-military-parade-at-in-picture-id472752050


He thinks it was Kyrgyz Mongoloid Turkic soldiers of the Mongol empire with their R1a were the rapist not the Mongols with C3

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/kyrgyz-soldiers-take-part-in-the-victory-day-military-parade-at-in-picture-id472752050

[LoLeL]

SUBCLADE... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subclade) :picard1:

[Rethel]

I have the feeling, that ButtlerKing
made his test, and it is not R1. :laugh:
So, butthurtness exploded :laugh:

Btw, R1b Gengis Khan would be a very
good example of "superiority" of this hg.
Regardless the race, continent, nation
or circumstances, it would proof, that
R1 men are creative progressing people :p

[Rethel]

R1b-M343 reaches 92% - 97% in the Chadic people of Africa

Not all Chadic, but one tribe, who has less than 1000 people.:picard2:

[Peterski]

R1b-V88 emerged in Europe and migrated to Africa from Europe. We have a Paleolithic sample of R1b-L754 (ancestral to V88) and a Neolithic sample of actual V88 - both from Europe (Villabruna & Els Trocs):

http://i.imgur.com/5aykXsv.png

http://i.imgur.com/5aykXsv.png

[ButlerKing]

I have the feeling, that ButtlerKing
made his test, and it is not R1. :laugh:
So, butthurtness exploded :laugh:

Btw, R1b Gengis Khan would be a very
good example of "superiority" of this hg.
Regardless the race, continent, nation
or circumstances, it would proof, that
R1 men are creative progressing people :p


But don't you see R1 men being ruled by Chinese with haplogroup O


The R1a/R1b Uyghurs aren't very creative or progressive in stopping the Chinese... and these people are nearly 50% R

http://admin.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2015-07/194965_5_.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/34t6cd5.jpg

[ButlerKing]

Anyway, one evidence he could be R1b is the blue eyes, red hair. But I really don't know, maybe Genghis Khan was Asian male C3 with Caucasian mtDNA ? maybe he was albino or some genetic mutation freaking ? the Hmong are Asians and they have red/blonde hair but have 0% Caucasian ancestry.



Odegei Khan, red hair blue eyes

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/YuanEmperorAlbumOgedeiPortrait.jpg

They still exist in 5% of Mongols ( is even more common in the Asian Hmong surprisingly )

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/woCN8lVJSNY/hqdefault.jpg

Genghis Khan doesn't red hair here but he is old in this picture and so his hair is would have turned gray by than, his eyes seems somewhat dark grayish (blue?)

https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/8992937_f520.jpg


Physical appearance of Genghis Khan

" The closest depiction generally accepted by most historians is the portrait currently in the National Palace Museum in Taipei, Taiwan, which was drawn under the supervision of his grandson Khubilai during the Mongol Yuan dynasty and depicts Genghis Khan with typical Mongol features.[70] "


He was properly just a colored haired Mongoloid.

[Grab the Gauge]

Excellent thread. Yes, R1b is the Mongoloid haplogroup that came to Europe from Mongolia. It reached its maximum frequency in Europe today as a result of Mongol rape of Europe, but of course Mongoloid invasions before that had brought it there, too. If you are R1B your ancestors were too weak to fend off the Hordes. Non-R men in Europe today are an elite minority of survivors who's ancestors didn't succumb to the neverending cycle of rape and death that was wreaked.

[ButlerKing]

Excellent thread. Yes, R1b is the Mongoloid haplogroup that came to Europe from Mongolia. It reached its maximum frequency in Europe today as a result of Mongol rape of Europe, but of course Mongoloid invasions before that had brought it there, too. If you are R1B your ancestors were too weak to fend off the Hordes. Non-R men in Europe today are an elite minority of survivors who's ancestors didn't succumb to the neverending cycle of rape and death that was wreaked.


There are actually some members who believe in this, I'm not kidding

Fire-headed quote


Haplogroup R was originally Mongoloid because it's a cousin of Q

Here is another one

http://i68.tinypic.com/29qlk48.png




The fact that haplogroup Q and N are Mongoloid is proven by the fact that the Mongoloid Turkic and Mongoloid Uralic ethnicity who have 70-90% Haplogroup Q and N also have 70%-80% Caucasian maternal DNA and still shows predominant Mongoloid DNA really proving their Mongoloid


As for R haplogroup I'm not sure.

[Ülev]

^^ North-West Europeans are unable to tan, burn in sun - the real red-skinned ---> brothers/cousins of Q y-dna

[cosmoo]

^^ North-West Europeans are unable to tan, burn in sun - the real red-skinned ---> brothers/cousins of Q y-dna
What point do you see in repeating this blatant lie over and over again?
R1 didn't bring those skin genes to Europe. Untannable skin is pre-IE, pre-Neolithic European trait.

[Grab the Gauge]

ButlerKing was always ahead of the curve of this issue. Much of the Mongoloids activities have been covered up; the archival evidence, if it ever was recorded, was likely destroyed out of shame. Modern genetics testing is only beginning to unravel what actually happened.


Central Asia was a death trap for Caucasoid males.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/12567375/


This different ancestry of the Yakuts and the Tuvans (compared with other Turkic-speaking groups) most likely reflects extensive admixture that occurred between Turkic-speaking steppe groups and Evenks as the former migrated into Siberia. Moreover, the Yakuts are unique among Siberian populations in having a high number of haplotypes shared exclusively with Europeans, suggesting, contrary to the historical record, that occasionally Yakut men took Russian women as wives.

[ButlerKing]

ButlerKing was always ahead of the curve of this issue. Much of the Mongoloids activities have been covered up; the archival evidence, if it ever was recorded, was likely destroyed out of shame. Modern genetics testing is only beginning to unravel what actually happened.


Central Asia was a death trap for Caucasoid males.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/12567375/



Hey, this is not me. I'm copying what some people think. I really don't understand why some people are so wacko.

Check out this Eupedia thread

" With which Y DNA was the proto caucausoid/mongoloid? "

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30175-With-which-Y-DNA-was-the-proto-caucausoid-mongoloid

http://i65.tinypic.com/33p4tx4.png

[ButlerKing]

ButlerKing was always ahead of the curve of this issue. Much of the Mongoloids activities have been covered up; the archival evidence, if it ever was recorded, was likely destroyed out of shame. Modern genetics testing is only beginning to unravel what actually happened.


Central Asia was a death trap for Caucasoid males.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/12567375/


Yakuts have 13% Caucasian female ancestry such as mtDNA H, X, T. but I seriously doubt it was from the Russian females most likely from the Uralic population. They also have R1b, I2a but I don't know the true frequency.

[Rethel]

Untannable skin is pre-IE, pre-Neolithic European trait.

:picard1:

[Rethel]

Yakuts have 13% Caucasian female ancestry such as mtDNA H, X, T. but I seriously doubt it was from the Russian females most likely from the Uralic population. They also have R1b, I2a but I don't know the true frequency.

Not from Uralic, but from Scythian and other old syberian IEs populations.
Even their name can be of IE ethymology, who knows... Remember also,
that majority of Yakuts is of preYakutian local origin, and their identity was
brought by some Turkic people in Medieval Times. These could be already
linguistically turkified Śakas. Finchurians did not migrated from Finland to
Manchuria, but from Machuria to Finland, so mts had to have different source.

[ButlerKing]

Not all Chadic, but one tribe, who has less than 1000 people.:picard2:



All these R1b tribes are from Cameroon of Africa and they all look black as hell too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

C Africa Ouldeme 95.5%
C Africa Mada 82.4%
C Africa Mafa 87.5%
C Africa Guiziga 77.8%
C Africa Daba 42.1%
C Africa Guidar 66.7%
C Africa Massa 28.6%
C Africa Moundang 66.7%
C Africa Other 75.0%


( C Africa = Central Africa )

[Ülev]

look at depigmented / albino kids from Tanzania, they looks quite west european

[ButlerKing]

Ouldeme people, these are the most blackest of the blackest people you will ever see.

Surprise that such super Black looking people could have the world highest R1b.



95.5% R1b

http://www.maisondesculturesdumonde.org/sites/default/files/album_photos/w260104harpe_0.jpg

[Peterski]

There are actually some members who believe in this, I'm not kidding

Fire-headed quote


Haplogroup R was originally Mongoloid because it's a cousin of Q

It was the other way around - haplogroup Q was originally Caucasoid, as Genetiker explains:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/timelines-of-prehistory/


Timeline of the peopling of the Americas:

(...)

15 ka — Hybrids formed from Y Q Caucasoid males and mt A, B, C, and D Mongoloid females migrate along the Pacific coast of the Bering land bridge and down the Pacific coasts of North and South America.

(...)

[Peterski]

The main originally Mongoloid haplogroup was NO, which emerged from K2.

And descendants of NO were - of course - O and N (both 37,000 years old).

[Rethel]

All these R1b tribes are from Cameroon of Africa and they all look black as hell too

1. This are not reprezentative groups - they were researched on small samles from one family-village.
2. They are all small ethnicities, having 1-10 thousanda people, sometimes ten of thousands.
3. These are people with only one sublclade, which came from Europe.


C Africa Ouldeme 95.5%

22 people were checked... :picard1:


C Africa Mada 82.4%

17 people... :picard2:


C Africa Mafa 87.5%

8 people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :picard2:


C Africa Guiziga 77.8%

9 people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :picard1:


C Africa Daba 42.1%

19 people... :picard2:


C Africa Guidar 66.7%

9 people... :picard2:


C Africa Massa 28.6%

7 people... :picard2:


C Africa Moundang 66.7%

21 people... :picard2:


C Africa Other 75.0%

4 people, come on!!! :picard2:

[cosmoo]

:picard1:

I didn't say IE didn't have light skin. What I said is that skin that is specifically hard to tan and burns is aboriginal European trait.

[ButlerKing]

1. This are not reprezentative groups - they were researched on small samles from one family-village.
2. They are all small ethnicities, having 1-10 thousanda people, sometimes ten of thousands.
3. These are people with only one sublclade, which came from Europe.



22 people were checked... :picard1:



17 people... :picard2:


8 people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :picard2:



9 people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :picard1:



19 people... :picard2:



9 people... :picard2:



7 people... :picard2:



21 people... :picard2:



4 people, come on!!! :picard2:


It doesn't matter how small their population is.

My point is they all have high haplogroup R1b and still look like these.


Genetics[edit source]


" According to a Y-DNA study by Hassan et al. (2008), about 40% of Hausa in Sudan carry the West Eurasian haplogroup R1b. The remainder and majority belong to various Sub-Saharan paternal lineages: 15.6% B, 12.5% A and 12.5% E1b1a. A small minority of around 3% are E1b1b clade bearers, a haplogroup which is most common in North Africa and the Horn of Africa.[45] "



50 million people


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FWSTZIB0CkQ/UYVSSsOuSbI/AAAAAAAAAXs/WWywoUQvzlc/s1600/elebrations.jpg

[Rethel]

Ouldeme people, these are the most blackest of the blackest people you will ever see.

Surprise that such super Black looking people could have the world highest R1b.



95.5% R1b

http://www.maisondesculturesdumonde.org/sites/default/files/album_photos/w260104harpe_0.jpg

Ok, but Ouldeme people count 10,000 people.
About 4000 males care R1b. Taking into account
African customs and growth, it means, that their
ancestor lived in 18th or even 19th century.

[Peterski]

Check this, m-O-N-goloid haplogroups = O and N:

https://i.imgur.com/Q8OFnei.png

https://i.imgur.com/Q8OFnei.png

[ButlerKing]

Ok, but Ouldeme people count 10,000 people.
About 4000 males care R1b. Taking into account
African customs and growth, it means, that their
ancestor lived in 18th or even 19th century.


Yeah, like I said it doesn't matter how small their population is besides the Hausa people have 40% R1b out of 50 million


40% out of 50 million is roughly 20 million people.

[Rethel]

" According to a Y-DNA study by Hassan et al. (2008), about 40% of Hausa in Sudan


50 million people

You did underline the clue information yourself, but you are talking further a bullshit.
It is probably the time to stop talking with you, becasue you do not even know what
you want to prove or what is your point.

Hausa in Sudan it is couple of thousands of people, not 50 million. :picard2:

But even if all Hausa would be 40% it only make more R1-men, and it is good for us.
It is still one subclade, which came from common PPIE heimat, that is obvious.

[Peterski]

By the way, Mongoloids are pretty much defined by 370A mutation in the Edar gene (about which CrazyDaisy started a thread some time ago). This mutation is younger than haplogroup R1, which means that when first R1 people emerged, there were still no any Mongoloids around. As Genetiker wrote:


45–25 ka — proto-Mongoloids in Northern China, central and eastern Mongolia, and Transbaikalia evolve into Mongoloids. The 370A mutation in the EDAR gene results in Sinodonty, stiff hair, small breasts, and higher sweat gland density. The epicanthic fold is also evolved.

[Rethel]

Yeah, like I said it doesn't matter how small their population is besides the Hausa people have 40% R1b out of 50 million


40% out of 50 million is roughly 20 million people.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/facepalm.gif

[Ülev]

^^ small breasts - so I saw plenty of mongoloids women in my whole life, lol

[Peterski]

This thread... : :picard1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcz9GOifnB4

[Potentia]

Well, it just shows the superiority of the R1 haplogroup. The largest continuous land empire in History? Check.

[Rethel]

is aboriginal European trait.

No it isn't, if you do not meant easter outskirts of the continent.
Euroaboriginals on the west of Borysthenes are like cross between
Australian Aboriginals and Saudi Arabs. Sorry, it looks like that.

[ButlerKing]

It was the other way around - haplogroup Q was originally Caucasoid, as Genetiker explains:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/timelines-of-prehistory/

Funny, using the world most amateur blogger Genetiker for a source. You can easily just tells he makes up all this things based on his own interpretations. He blocks any comment he doesn't like to read. He make crazy ass theories and sometimes suspect he is a afrocentrist.


Haplogroup Q, is nearly non-existant in Caucasian population and you're claiming it's from Caucasians ?

Haplogroup Q is absolutely Mongoloid it exist highest frequencies in Northeast Asia, Siberia, Southeast Asia, North China, America's, South China, America's

Don't you know he is the same person who claims haplogroup D and E were all negroid origin ? so do you agree with him haplogroup E in Europe is negroid ?

Is funny how you used a source from a person who claims the Olmecs were Negroid and that original Ainu were Ainu haplogroup who mixed with Caucasian.

He literally thinks Ainu are proto-Caucasians with negroid paternal ancestor through intermixing.


The most rubbish blogger of all time


You did underline the clue information yourself, but you are talking further a bullshit.
It is probably the time to stop talking with you, becasue you do not even know what you want tom prove.

Hausa in Sudan it is couple of thousands of people, not 50 million. :picard2:

But even if all Hausa would be 40% it only make more R1-men, and it is good for us.
It is still one subclade, which came from common PPIE heimat, that is obvious.


The wikipedia says Hausa has 50 million people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_people


It says 40% of Hausa people of Sudan carry haplogroup R1b but I'm sure it's mean to include all of Hausa people or else why would this be the only study they posted but I'm not completely sure.

Anyway most likely these high R1b are just genetic drifts in the African population similar with Kyrgyz.

The Mowa Siwa berbers who are Caucasian-Negroid mix have 28% R1b however we have good reason to believe it came from Negroid males with R1b rather than native North Africans. Maybe King Tut R1b was a negroid type ?


http://looklex.com/e.o/slides/berbers06.jpg

[Rethel]

Well, it just shows the superiority of the R1 haplogroup. The largest continuous land empire in History? Check.

PeR1sian
R1oman
GR1eek
BhaR1atian continuity
R1ussia
FR1ankia
BR1itain and her daughteR1s states
IbeR1an states and their successoR1s...
Ottoman PoR1ta

[Rethel]

It says 40% of Hausa people of Sudan carry haplogroup R1b but I'm sure it's mean to include all of Hausa people or else why would this be the only study they posted but I'm not completely sure.

If they would meant all Hausa, they wouldn't write about SUDAN HAUSA black on white.:picard2:

[Grab the Gauge]

By the way, Mongoloids are pretty much defined by 370A mutation in the Edar gene (about which CrazyDaisy started a thread some time ago). This mutation is younger than haplogroup R1, which means that when first R1 people emerged, there were still no any Mongoloids around. As Genetiker wrote:

Wrong. Sinodonty/EDAR370a appears at the same time as R1. It also appears earliest so far in Strashnaya cave in Russia. Genetiker's blog is full of outdated misinfo.

[Rethel]

This thread... : :picard1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcz9GOifnB4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q6M6WSboAA

[ButlerKing]

PeR1sian
R1oman
GR1eek
BhaR1atian continuity
R1ussia
FR1ankia
BR1itain and her daughteR1s states
IbeR1an states and their successoR1s...
Ottoman PoR1ta


The most famous white guy = Haplogroup E ( and ironically from East Africa )


Adolf Hitler


" According to research published in 2004, Adolf Hitler, dictator of Germany during 1933–1945, likely belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup E-M35 ("E1b1b1"), a haplogroup which originated in East Africa about 22,400 years BP.[55] "

[cosmoo]

No it isn't, if you do not meant easter outskirts of the continent.
Euroaboriginals on the west of Borysthenes are like cross between
Australian Aboriginals and Saudi Arabs. Sorry, it looks like that.
Lol. "Euroaboriginals" are anthropometrically removed from Saudi Arabians (your example) much more than your R1ethelites (IE generally belonged to Nordid type, which is metrically close to "Greater Mediterranean" types).
Check out what proper anthropologists say about native European pigmentation:
"By means of this study it is possible to reconstruct with some probability the living appearance of the Upper Palaeolithic men. [...] The hair was brown and wavy, frequently rufous, of medium abundance on beard and body; the eyes light-mixed blue. The skin was typically inclined to freckling, and very fair."
(C.S. Coon, "The Races of Europe", chapter X, section 2)

[Ülev]

https://s13.postimg.org/chzn81pyf/skin_tone.jpg

but I drew arrows in wrong direction

whites are like RGB phenomenon

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/RGB_illumination.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model

[Rethel]

"By means of this study it is possible to reconstruct with some probability the living appearance of the Upper Palaeolithic men. [...] The hair was brown and wavy, frequently rufous, of medium abundance on beard and body; the eyes light-mixed blue. The skin was typically inclined to freckling, and very fair."
(C.S. Coon, "The Races of Europe", chapter X, section 2)

If you would read introduction to the book, you would know,
that Coon write only about pigmentation which he think, they
could have, becasue he had no idea what he said himself.
There is no colour in the bones. None. Even in the quote
you have written - probablity.

[Grab the Gauge]

Oldest Mongoloid remains in Europe:


Oase 2 +30,000 years old

Solutre series +20,000 years old

Chancelade Eskimo +20,000 years old



Mongoloid figurines from Mal'ta-Buret 25,000 years old:


http://donsmaps.com/images11/maltavenussm.jpg


Strashnaya remains +20,000 years old Sinodont:


http://archaeology.nsc.ru/ru/about/conferenc/doc/2011_01.pdf

[ButlerKing]

If they would meant all Hausa, they wouldn't write about SUDAN HAUSA black on white.:picard2:

Okay, you're right but still significant

R1b

Hausa Nigeria (North) 20%


R1b is not wide spread in all of Africa but is very common in Central Africa. We shouldn't play down it's numbers.

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png

[cosmoo]

If you would read introduction to the book, you would know,
that Coon write only about pigmentation which he think, they
could have, becasue he had no idea what he said himself.
There is no colour in the bones. None. Even in the quote
you have written - probablity.

He didn't come up with this idea out of nowhere. He claimed this because it is evident from all anthropological data that people of Upper Palaeolithic European (CM) phenotypes have fairest skin and highest incidence of rufosity (in hair and on skin (freckling)). If those men in Europe have it today, it is only logical that their ancestors had it too.
BTW before you start talking about how "IE gave those light skin genes" to us, be reminded that Nordid phenotype (brought by IEs) has fair skin, but it tans extremely well and has no freckles at all. So there is no way in hell they are responsible for it.
And before you start talking how R1b brought rufosity, let me remind you that oldest sample with red hair found is Goyet hunter-gatherer from Belgium (25.000+ years old).

[Rethel]

Oldest Mongoloid remains in Europe:


Oase 2 +30,000 years old

Solutre series +20,000 years old

Chancelade Eskimo +20,000 years old


None of them was IE.

[Rethel]

The most famous white guy = Haplogroup E ( and ironically from East Africa )


Adolf Hitler

Ok, and what? Matrioshki happens, and he actually deastroyed everything so?

What is your point?

[Rethel]

R1b is not wide spread in all of Africa but is very common in Central Africa. We shouldn't play down it's numbers.

Let it be even half of Africa, and what?

[Peterski]

Mongoloid figurines from Mal'ta-Buret 25,000 years old:

http://donsmaps.com/images11/maltavenussm.jpg

^^^ That figurine shows a praying man who looks just like Jesus: :eek:

http://www.scrapsdinamicos.com.br/imagens/religiao-jesus-54e495.jpg

[Peterski]

Maybe Jesus was R1 ???


whites are like RGB phenomenon

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/RGB_illumination.jpg

G and B have nothing to do with whites. Only R haplogroup.

[Rethel]

He didn't come up with this idea out of nowhere. He claimed this because it is evident from all anthropological data that people of Upper Palaeolithic European (CM) phenotypes have fairest skin and highest incidence of rufosity (in hair and on skin (freckling)). If those men in Europe have it today, it is only logical that their ancestors had it too.

But which ascendants? Local or newcommers?
Why are you chosen only one part. :picard:


BTW before you start talking about how "IE gave those light skin genes" to us, be reminded that Nordid phenotype (brought by IEs) has fair skin, but it tans extremely well and has no freckles at all. So there is no way in hell they are responsible for it.

IEs wasn't only ion Nordic type.
Redheads were among them too.


And before you start talking how R1b brought rufosity, let me remind you that oldest sample with red hair found is Goyet hunter-gatherer from Belgium (25.000+ years old).

Yea, why not 250.000 years ago...?

[ButlerKing]

Let it be even half of Africa, and what?

It's huge enough that even Afrocentrists like Clyde Winters claim the origin of R1b was from Negroid Africans

Blacks and the Origin of Haplogroups M1 and R1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW9ilac_uhQ

[Rethel]

Maybe Jesus was R1 ???

No way.
He could be of his own hg, of Adam hg or rather of Davidic hg.
It would be intereting research anyway.
Maybe some day they check Turin całun ot chustę z Oviedo?

It would also confirm or not theirs originality.

[Lucas]

@Butler
@Cosmoo
http://b2.ifrm.com/67/29/0/a2118713/avatar-2118713.jpg

[Ülev]

Maybe Jesus was R1 ???



G and B have nothing to do with whites. Only R haplogroup.


https://youtu.be/DLt4MrZCzsM

[Rethel]

https://youtu.be/DLt4MrZCzsM

Now we know, why white-R1 is gone there! :laugh:

[Rethel]

http://donsmaps.com/images11/maltavenussm.jpg

Żarty żartami, but it is very interesting sculpture.
Guy is actually looking as he would praying indeed.

[cosmoo]

@Butler
@Cosmoo
http://b2.ifrm.com/67/29/0/a2118713/avatar-2118713.jpg

Typologist, what's the point of making shitloads of sockpuppet accounts? You're going to swallow a ban on this one just as smoothly as you did before...

[ButlerKing]

The Hausa people have 20-40% R1b yet all they have 0% Caucasian DNA admixture ???? I mean you can find a few with 1-5% Caucasian admixture but most are 0%.

Maybe this study is only on Hausa of Nigeria ?

https://forwhattheywereweare.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/admixture.png

[Ülev]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Cro-Magnon_migration.gif

IJK Cromagnoids

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170

[Rethel]

The Hausa people have 20-40% R1b yet all they have 0% Caucasian DNA admixture ???? I mean you can find a few with 1-5% Caucasian admixture but most are 0%.


When you settle in Africa and will inbreed with negro women,
your further descendats will have zero caucasian also....

[ButlerKing]

When you settle in Africa and will inbreed with negro women,
your further descendats will have zero caucasian also....

I suppose is through thousand years of inbreeding with negroid women

If they have 0% Caucasian admixture can we still consider R1b in Africa as Caucasian Y-DNA ? even African American with negroid Y-DNA and mtDNA and can still have 22% White blood.

[ButlerKing]

Actually African Americans don't have 40% R1b

R1b is only 29% in African Americans but look at how their Caucasian DNA varies from 6% to 70% ( although are somewhere 20-25% )

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/11/uyafr.png

[Rethel]

I suppose is through thousand years of inbreeding with negroid women

In only 10th generetion statisticlly your descendant will have 1/1024 = 0,09%
According to many anti-Y posters, it is about 22 times less DNA, than contains
the Y chromosome itself, what means that 100% DNA is negroid.

In Africa 10 generations could take even 150-200 years...

Thosands of years... year, evolutionists are stupid as fuck... :picard2:

But it would take half of that time and of generations in reality.


If they have 0% Caucasian admixture can we still consider R1b in Africa as Caucasian Y-DNA ?

Of course, becaue their ancestor lived in Europe and was IE.


even African American with negroid Y-DNA and mtDNA and can still have 22% White blood.

Becasue they were heavily mixing in last 150 years.
If R1b in Africa contain at the time of entering it 0,1% of population
and was allready mix with MENAs, then nothing strange, that there
is no caucasian DNA (what is of course not true, but as you wish).

For high admixture you have to have a group not
individuals, in addition with high rating of mortality...

[Rethel]

Actually African Americans don't have 40% R1b
R1b is only 29% in African Americans but look at how their Caucasian DNA varies from 6% to 70% ( although are somewhere 20-25% )

Where did you get that data? :picard1:

R1b is ~15% of US Afro-Americans.

[brennus dux gallorum]

R1b is the HP of the people who used to live in Europe before Indoeuropean invasions

[Rethel]

R1b is the HP of the people who used to live in Europe before Indoeuropean invasions

It is going further I see... :picard2:

To much of drinking napalm...

[brennus dux gallorum]

It is going further I see... :picard2:

To much of drinking napalm...

your post is for nobel prize, like your haircut :D

[ButlerKing]

Where did you get that data? :picard1:

R1b is ~15% of US Afro-Americans.

I simply remember.

Firs tell me where you get 15% R1b for Afro-Americans.

[Rethel]

I simply remember.

Firs tell me where you get 15% R1b for Afro-Americans.

I simply remember :p

There was a study about them.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/humu.9469/pdf

And what is the second?

[Rethel]

like your haircut :D

:confused:

[brennus dux gallorum]

To much of drinking napalm...

:confused:

[Rethel]

:confused:

That what you said was an absurd. I tried to find a reason, why you said it.

[Ülev]

love is in the air....

[brennus dux gallorum]

That what you said was an absurd. I tried to find a reason, why you said it.
there is nothing absurd about anything i said

[ButlerKing]

I simply remember :p

There was a study about them.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/humu.9469/pdf

And what is the second?

Your links doesn't show 15% R1b...

I can't find the 29% R1b right now but I swear I've seen it before


Haplogroup R1b would seem to be 17.3%


The population of the United States has been characterized as a cultural melting pot, with over 500 ancestries reporting in the 2000 Census... We estimate the extent of population structure and proportions of multi-ethnic (African, European, Asian, and Native-American) paternal ancestry in all 38 populations... Samples for this study (Table 1) come from U.S. crime laboratories and have been described previously [12]. The population samples include individuals from five ethnic groups including: African–American (AA) (n = 651; 10 populations), European–American (EA) (n = 927; 10 populations), Hispanic-American (HA) (n = 479; 9 populations), Native-American (NA) (n = 398; 7 populations), and Asian–American (SA) (n = 62; 2 populations). "

AA = African American

http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0908/c1/1631cb58217c.jpg


Anyway I'm sure I've seen it just like Y-DNA haplogroup is diverge from states to states so if their proprotion Caucasian autosomal ancestry. Caucasian DNA seems to be somewhat more higher in North California

https://tracingafricanroots.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/tishkoff-et-al-2009-aa-breakdown-p-1039.jpg?w=869


https://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/African-Ancestry-in-African-Americans-300x186.jpg

[Rethel]

Your links doesn't show 15% R1b...

:picard2:


I can't find the 29% R1b right now but I swear I've seen it before


You could see 29% of european something, and this is not the same.


Haplogroup R1b would seem to be 17.3%

So, you so quickly changed your mind?

17% should be total R1.

[Rethel]

http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0908/c1/1631cb58217c.jpg

Where is it came from?

[ButlerKing]

:picard2:


You could see 29% of european something, and this is not the same.



So, you so quickly changed your mind?

17% should be total R1.


It shows

R-M269 17.3%
R-P25 0.5%
R-M17 1.1%

Total 18.9% haplogroup R

This does not mean we are both wrong. I clearly remember seeing 29% R1b in AA but I don't why it's so hard to find now.

[ButlerKing]

Where is it came from?

Links dead now. It came from here --->
http://hammerlab.biosci.arizona.edu/publications/Hammer_2005.pdf


I remember African Americans with 29% R1b was also from a link from Hammer but yet I can't find anything I type this. You also can't find any percentages of Africans Y-DNA.

[Rethel]

Total 18.9% haplogroup R. This does not mean we are both wrong.

No, I said ~15% - do you see this sign before 15?
Originally I had wrote even 17, but I always add something for
other clades, so I lovered the number for security, but nevermind.


The difference it not so important 2% it is a statistical error.


I clearly remember seeing 29% R1b in AA but I don't why it's so hard to find now.

So, find it.

[ButlerKing]

Where is it came from?

Interestingly enough here's Europeans American with non-Caucasian European Y-DNA


E-P1 0.9% in European Americans ( 62% in African Americans )

Q-36 0.6% in Europeans Americans ( 31.2% in Native Americans )

Q-M3 0.1% in Europeans Americans ( 26.9% in Native Americans )

O-P31 0.1% in Europeans ( 1.6% in Asian Americans )

O-M122 0.3% in Europeans ( 9.7% in Asian Americans )

O-MSY2b 0.1% in Europeans ( 17.7% in Asian Americans )


A total of 2.1% non-Caucasian Y-DNA.

2.1% of 234 million = 4, 914,000 White Americans with none Caucasian Y-DNA male lineage.


I though they had miscegenation laws to protect white females from mating with non-white males.

[Rethel]

Interesting, that number of Indians is a lillt higher than half of one-race Indians in US.

[ButlerKing]

No, I said ~15% - do you see this sign before 15?
Originally I had wrote even 17, but I always add something for
other clades, so I lovered the number for security, but nevermind.


The difference it not so important 2% it is a statistical error.



So, find it.


You just can't find anything on their Y-DNA, they are either deleted or no longer viewable. I still don't think I'm wrong though even this guy said African Americans have 40% R1b, it could be the study with 29% R1b was from one state and not the overall average African American from every state.


http://i67.tinypic.com/2r1zrd5.jpg

[Rethel]

You just can't find anything on their Y-DNA,

I just showed you.
It is even on wikipedia.


they are either deleted or no longer viewable. I still don't think I'm wrong though even this guy said African Americans have 40% R1b, it could be the study with 29% R1b was from one state and not the overall average African American from every state

You yourself posted a picture with data which contradict to this. :picard2:

[ButlerKing]

I just showed you.
It is even on wikipedia.



You yourself posted a picture with data which contradict to this. :picard2:

I found it though they rounded it up 30% here ( I said I remember 29% but it's most likely something like 29.7 % )

http://www.cstl.nist.gov/strbase/pub_pres/Vallone2004a.pdf

Results

"The 50 markers examined here define 45 of the 153 YCC haplogroups described in a recent publication (22). Figure 1 illustrates the position of each Y-SNP on the YCC tree and highlights markers that are common between the two assay formats (boxed). Haplogroup Frequencies for African American and Caucasian Samples We examined 114 U.S. Caucasians and 115 African American samples across these 50Y-SNPs.Atotal of 18 different haplogroups were observed out of a possible 45 defined by these 50 Y-SNPs (Fig. 1). A majority of the African American samples (58%) fell in the E3a haplogroup as they were derived at M2 (sometimes designated DYS271 or sY81) (13). The derived allele was observed in a majority of the Caucasian samples for Y-SNP markers M207 and P25 and thus can be placed in the R haplogroup. A number of African Americans were also in haplogroup R(xR1a,R1b) and R1b, demonstrating that admixture may be present at a level of 30% as recently reported using Y-STR data (27). YCC haplogroups unique to African American samples in this dataset included A1, B, B2a, E1, E2, and E3a. Haplogroups unique to the Caucasian samples were E, E3, J2, K, N3, R1a1, and R1b6. Haplogroups shared between these two sample sets included E3b, G, I, R(xR1a,R1b), and R1b. "

[Robocop]

R1ethelites people pride

OMG Rethel will not like this thread...

http://www.bobcesca.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/captain-picard-facepalm-375x195.jpg

[Robocop]

Excellent thread. Yes, R1b is the Mongoloid haplogroup that came to Europe from Mongolia. It reached its maximum frequency in Europe today as a result of Mongol rape of Europe, but of course Mongoloid invasions before that had brought it there, too. If you are R1B your ancestors were too weak to fend off the Hordes. Non-R men in Europe today are an elite minority of survivors who's ancestors didn't succumb to the neverending cycle of rape and death that was wreaked.

Oh really? "Interesting" you sayin that, because I have a question for you, because you and I do not agree about anything except that we are living on same planet lol.

So, to what Y-DNA you belong, if I may ask? :)

[ButlerKing]

It was the other way around - haplogroup Q was originally Caucasoid, as Genetiker explains:

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/timelines-of-prehistory/

Funny, using the world most amateur blogger Genetiker for a source.

Firstable he blocks any comment he doesn't like to read. He make crazy ass theories and sometimes suspect he is a afrocentrist.

Don't you know he is the same person who claims haplogroup D and E were all negroid origin ?


Is funny how you used a source from a person who claims the Olmecs were Negroid and that original Ainu were Ainu haplogroup who mixed with Caucasian.

He literally thinks Ainu are Caucasians with negroid paternal ancestor.

[Robocop]

I don't want even to enter into any kind of debate about this thread.

R1b in general have nothing to do with Mongols or Blacks, those Mongols and Blacks which have those subclades of R1b are exactly that; subclades.

Nothin more, nothin else

R1b as R1a in general are IE Y-DNA haplogroups, evey Archaeological evidence is supporting this not theory but fact.

Maria Gimbutas have made a founding "stone" for what is what considering IE ppl and their spreading, and R1 is following their spreading perfectly.

And how much does IE languages have in common with Mongol or Negro/African? LOL.

Enough said.

[ButlerKing]

I don't want even to enter into any kind of debate about this thread.

R1b in general have nothing to do with Mongols or Blacks, those Mongols and Blacks which have those subclades of R1b are exactly that; subclades.

Nothin more, nothin els.e

R1b as R1a in general are IE Y-DNA haplogroups, evey Archaeological evidence is supporting this not theory but fact.

Maria Gimbutas have made a founding "stone" for what is what considering IE ppl and their spreading, and R1 is following their spreading perfectly.

And how much does IE languages have in common with Mongol or Negro/African? LOL.

Enough said.



Is not about if haplogroup R1a is or R1b is originally Mongoloid or not.

The point was the Mongol invaders were not only haplogroup C, O is what they are trying to saying. Like Kyrgyz having such high Caucasian mtDNA and Y-DNA yet there is not even a 0.1% who is pure Caucasian.

I had posted these before, maybe some were influenced by my data.

Pazyryk culture

" Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] "


Anayino culture

Sculptural reconstruction of men Lugovskyi burial
Ananyino culture. Gypsum. MMGerasimov work.


" Reconstruction of the mounds number 5, 6 show burial Stone Barn in racial make women Ural mixed type men - striking features of Central Asian Mongoloid."

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641901/tyurk1.jpg

http://www.imageup.ru/img195/1641909/f-u1.jpg


History Unearthed: A Survey of Eighteen Archaeological Sites Throughout the World


" Though almost 3000 miles separate the Scythian Empire from Pazyryk, both belonged to a world shared by peoples of different origins and languages (in one burial the man is of Mongoloid, the woman of Indo-European type) with a common burials of Europoid females and part Mongoloid males. "

[Robocop]

Is not about if haplogroup R1a is or R1b is originally Mongoloid or not.



I know but this thread became that.

Also, even if Mongols carried some of R1b subclade, such as this one, it is almost unimportant.

I don't know what is all this talk about so called Mongol influence on Europe? What exactly did Mongols do except someone has Science Fiction about their role considering Europe?

Golden Horde "left it's mark" in eastern Europe like Mongols in Egypt, not worth of mentioning.

Mongols were always coming as a; HORDE, they never settled anywhere, they were like STORM which comes and passes, and their rule wasn't long lasted anywhere (not including China).

Also Huns, if someone wants to speak about them, when Huns came to eastern Europe in 2nd century AD, till they arrived to Pannonia, almost 60-70% of their army was of non-hun ethnicity. But various submited ethnicities serving in their army like Goths, Alans, Sarmatins etc...

So all this talk, this "exploding title" of this thread... is more like a ... showtime :) no offence, cheers

[Rethel]

OMG Rethel will not like this thread...

Why? Having Temujin in the tribe will cause the enviness of others again, as usually :laugh:

[Lucas]

No, I said ~15% - do you see this sign before 15?
Originally I had wrote even 17, but I always add something for
other clades, so I lovered the number for security, but nevermind.


The difference it not so important 2% it is a statistical error.



So, find it.

Yeah. This is article with those data.

https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2009-10-12-r141


As expected, PCA on our entire sample revealed the greatest genetic differentiation between the US Caucasians and the Africans, with the African Americans intermediate between them, reflecting their recent admixture between ancestors from Europe and Africa. Our estimate of European individual admixture (IA) in the African Americans was also roughly consistent with prior studies [3], with an average of 21.9%. We found considerable variation among individuals in terms of European IA, and a number of individuals with particularly high European IA values (eight individuals of 136, or 6% with values greater than 45%).

Prior studies focusing on mtDNA and Y chromosomes have found a greater African and lesser European representation of mtDNA haplotypes compared with Y chromosome haplotypes in African Americans, suggesting a greater contribution of African matrilineal descent compared with patrilineal descent [6, 7]. For example, Kayser and colleagues [6] estimated that 27.5% to 33.6% of Y chromosomes in African Americans are of European origin, compared with 9.0% to 15.4% of mtDNA haplotypes.

[Lucas]

But not about R1b specifically.

[Lucas]

Typologist, what's the point of making shitloads of sockpuppet accounts? You're going to swallow a ban on this one just as smoothly as you did before...

http://b2.ifrm.com/67/29/0/a2118713/avatar-2118713.jpg

[cosmoo]

I don't want even to enter into any kind of debate about this thread.

R1b in general have nothing to do with Mongols or Blacks, those Mongols and Blacks which have those subclades of R1b are exactly that; subclades.

Nothin more, nothin else

R1b as R1a in general are IE Y-DNA haplogroups, evey Archaeological evidence is supporting this not theory but fact.

Maria Gimbutas have made a founding "stone" for what is what considering IE ppl and their spreading, and R1 is following their spreading perfectly.

And how much does IE languages have in common with Mongol or Negro/African? LOL.

Enough said.

Not entirely correct. R1 is not exclusively IE. Many northern Native Americans carry it. Chippewa, Cherokee, Sioux and Seminole Indians all have around 50% R1 which obviously has nothing to do with IEs.

[Petalpusher]

Not entirely correct. R1 is not exclusively IE. Many northern Native Americans carry it. Chippewa, Cherokee, Sioux and Seminole Indians all have around 50% R1 which obviously has nothing to do with IEs.

It doesn't prove the contrary either since Amerindians are half ANE.

All this just proves that in any case people shouldn't base much on macro clades. The R1 specific clade of African is from a back basal eurasian migration, if we find 30 R1 on a population of 31, that's close to 100% but doesn't mean it originated here. And where things originated is anyway largely irrelevant ethnically by now.

[Rethel]

Not entirely correct. R1 is not exclusively IE. Many northern Native Americans carry it. Chippewa, Cherokee, Sioux and Seminole Indians all have around 50% R1 which obviously has nothing to do with IEs.

It has everything to do with IEs, especially that:

1. IEs were present in Siberia at very early times, so nothing strange,
if some of them would migrated to America - if Yeniseyans could, more
advanced IEs could the more.

2. There is a probability, that some Tocharians emigrated to America.\

3. Celts and Vikings were landing in America 1500-500 years
ago... and there where they landed is the highest density.

4. Europeans massivly colonized that contonent through last 500 years.
Mixes were happening constantly and even today, selfdeclered half-Indians
is almost euqally the same as "pure" Indians - which are not pure at all.
Most of those tribes, 100 years ago had hundrets of members, so it
was enaugh to took one prisoner, to made a huge founder effect.
But even in present day of level of population, they are so small
population, compating with hundrets opf millions of Europeans, that
a total idiot, can claim, that there was no european addition into
these petty ethnicities... :picard1:

Even Indian chieftains were mixing with Europeans, like Nonhelema,
who was living in XVIIIth cenrury and was breeding successfully with
two different european guys. Her tribe has today 7,500 people. It
would be enugh fo her two sons, to make 50% of one hg today...

[johen]

Not entirely correct. R1 is not exclusively IE. Many northern Native Americans carry it. Chippewa, Cherokee, Sioux and Seminole Indians all have around 50% R1 which obviously has nothing to do with IEs.
Archaeologically possible. They had mound culture like kurgan in Yamna. Interestingly, there are mounds/kurgans in the area of R people, but pyramids in the area of Q poeple.

In the US
https://gypsyroadtrip.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/mounds-0221.jpg

yamna
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Yamna_culture_tomb.jpg

cherokee(47% R1b?)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Dpi52Th2Ha8/UVnj7iimqBI/AAAAAAAALHI/wdTkQ6us6BE/s1600/Cherokee-burial-desecrated.jpg

[Ice]

Be proud if you’re R1b, obey if you’re not.

[johen]

yamna
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Yamna_culture_tomb.jpg

cherokee(47% R1b?)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Dpi52Th2Ha8/UVnj7iimqBI/AAAAAAAALHI/wdTkQ6us6BE/s1600/Cherokee-burial-desecrated.jpg

And another big question. Is there a possibility of the below guy to be the same enthnic as the above?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/23/23/3AB3C1C100000578-3965046-image-a-23_1479944499163.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...years-old.html


'Lost city of the tomb builders' uncovered in Egypt: 7,000 year old First Dynasty find contains cemetery with graves 'bigger than a kings' to show off construction skillsIts discovery may yield new insights on Abydos, one of the oldest cities in Ancient Egypt, the ministry said in a statement.Experts say Abydos was Egypt's capital towards the end of the Predynastic Period and during the rule of the first four dynasties.The discovery was made 400 metres away from the temple of Seti I, a New Kingdom period memorial across the Nile from present day Luxor.Archaeologists have so far uncovered huts, pottery remains and iron tools as well as 15 huge graves, some of which were larger than the graves of kings in Abydos, the ministry said in a statement.'The size of the graves discovered in the cemetery is larger in some instances than royal graves in Abydos dating back to the First Dynasty, which proves the importance of the people buried there and their high social standing during this early era of ancient Egyptian history,' the ministry said


Reuters - September 24, 2007Ancient Mexicans and Egyptians who never met and lived centuries and thousands of miles apart both worshiped feathered-serpent deities, built pyramids and developed a 365-day calendar, a new exhibition shows. Billed as the world's largest temporary archeological showcase, Mexican archeologists have brought treasures from ancient Egypt to display alongside the great indigenous civilizations of Mexico for the first time.The exhibition, which boasts a five-tonne, 3,000-year-old sculpture of Egyptian pharaoh Ramses II and stone carvings from Mexican pyramid Chichen Itza, aims to show many of the similarities of two complex worlds both conquered by Europeans in invasions 1,500 years apart. "There are huge cultural parallels between ancient Egypt and Mexico in religion, astronomy, architecture and the arts. They deserve to be appreciated together," said exhibition organizer Gina Ulloa, who spent almost three years preparing the 35,520 square-feet (3,300 meter-square) display.The exhibition, which opened at the weekend in the northern Mexican city of Monterrey, shows how Mexican civilizations worshiped the feathered snake god Quetzalcoatl from about 1,200 BC to 1521, when the Spanish conquered the Aztecs.From 3,000 BC onward Egyptians often portrayed their gods, including the Goddess of the Pharaohs Isis, in art and sculpture as serpents with wings or feathers. The feathered serpent and the serpent alongside a deity signifies the duality of human existence, at once in touch with water and earth, the serpent, and the heavens, the feathers of a bird," said Ulloa. Egyptian sculptures at the exhibition -- flown to Mexico from ancient temples along the Nile and from museums in Cairo, Luxor and Alexandria - show how Isis' son Horus was often represented with winged arms and accompanied by serpents. Cleopatra, the last Egyptian queen before the Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC, saw herself as Isis and wore a gold serpent in her headpiece.Uncanny SimilaritiesIn the arts, Mexico's earliest civilization, the Olmecs, echo Egypt's finest sculptures. Olmec artists carved large man-jaguar warriors that are similar to the Egyptian sphinxes on display showing lions with the heads of gods or kings. The seated statue of an Egyptian scribe carved between 2465 and 2323 BC shows stonework and attention to detail that parallels a seated stone sculpture of an Olmec lord. There is no evidence the Olmecs and Egyptians ever met.Shared traits run to architecture, with Egyptians building pyramids as royal tombs and the Mayans and Aztecs following suit with pyramids as places of sacrifice to the gods. While there is no room for pyramids at the exhibition -- part of the Universal Forum of Cultures, an international cultural festival held in Barcelona in 2004 -- organizers say it is the first time many of pieces have left Egypt. They include entire archways from Nile temples, a bracelet worn by Ramses II and sarcophagi used by the pharaohs. Mexico has also brought together Aztec, Mayan and Olmec pieces from across the country.

[Rethel]

cherokee(47% R1b?)

Cherokee are famous of taking into their composition everything
what lived around them: european settlers, running slaves, jewish
traders, chinese workers... They have whole alphabet, since XVII
or XVIII century at least.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Not entirely correct. R1 is not exclusively IE. Many northern Native Americans carry it. Chippewa, Cherokee, Sioux and Seminole Indians all have around 50% R1 which obviously has nothing to do with IEs.

not even R1a is settled as IE, R1b is confirmed to be linked to non-IE people such as aquitanians.

[Peterski]

After 1492 many White men fathered children with Native American women.

[johen]

After 1492 many White men fathered children with Native American women.

definitely true. How about 3,000bc in yamna and central asia?
It was a just routine job of Nomad including PIE to steal women while riding horse.
There was and is "up and down" in history. Now modern European people has been in "up" situation. My question is " at that time also"?

[Proto-Shaman]

Not all Chadic, but one tribe, who has less than 1000 people.:picard2:
if I remind correctly right in the center of Chadic R1b is the Turukhu tribe or something like that.

[Proto-Shaman]

It is still one subclade, which came from common PPIE heimat, that is obvious.
Yamna was proto-Turkic, no sign of West-European haplotypes.

[Rethel]

if I remind correctly right in the center of Chadic R1b is the Turukhu tribe or something like that.

It would be interesting, becasue it is scythian name :p

They have also a tribe called Hausa - it is obvious germanic house. :)

[Proto-Shaman]

It would be interesting, becasue it is scythian name :p

They have also a tribe called Hausa - it is obvious germanic house. :)

yes, I read it at Wikipedia 6 months ago, but I can't find the article anymore.

[Proto-Shaman]

After 1492 many White men fathered children with Native American women.

sorry, but native american R1 show NO SIGN of recent european haplotypes. its ancient from Siberia.

[Rethel]

yes, I read it at Wikipedia 6 months ago, but I can't find the article anymore.

Somewhere was also about some indian ancient name for Śakas similar to turk.
But I can't remeber where it was. Maybe about IndoSythians section?

About scythian turkoids it is meantion in main article about the Turkey.

[johen]

by wiki
"Turukkaeans (Turukkum, Turukku) were an ancient near eastern people in the north western parts of Ancient Iran during the Bronze Age. In particular, they inhabited the Urmia basin and the valleys of northwestern Zagros Mountains. Turukkum appears to have consisted of a group of kingdoms whose populations were of mixed stock, perhaps predominantly Hurrian but with significant East Semitic components."

Were the Turukku people related to scythian?

[Proto-Shaman]

Were the Turukku people related to scythian?
perhaps, but there is no information in ancient text. The only thing we know is they were semi-nomadic barbarians with bluish/green cat eyes and blonde hair.

[Proto-Shaman]

Were the Turukku people related to scythian?
perhaps, but there is no information in ancient text. The only thing we know is they were semi-nomadic barbarians with bluish/green cat eyes and blonde hair. Probably "IE" proto-Turks.

[Rethel]

by wiki
"Turukkaeans (Turukkum, Turukku) were an ancient near eastern people in the north western parts of Ancient Iran during the Bronze Age. In particular, they inhabited the Urmia basin and the valleys of northwestern Zagros Mountains. Turukkum appears to have consisted of a group of kingdoms whose populations were of mixed stock, perhaps predominantly Hurrian but with significant East Semitic components."

Were the Turukku people related to scythian?

For example here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#Etymology_and_ethnic_identity

The ethnonym "Turk" may be first discerned in Herodotus' (c. 484–425 BC) reference to Targitas, first king of the Scythians;[80] furthermore, during the first century AD., Pomponius Mela refers to the "Turcae" in the forests north of the Sea of Azov, and Pliny the Elder lists the "Tyrcae" among the people of the same area.

Or here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples#Etymology

During the first century CE, Pomponius Mela refers to the "Turcae" in the forests north of the Sea of Azov, and Pliny the Elder lists the "Tyrcae" among the people of the same area. There are references to certain groups in antiquity whose names could be the original form of "Türk/Türük" such as Togarma, Turukha/Turuška, Turukku and so on. But the information gap is so substantial that we cannot firmly connect these ancient people to the modern Turks. Turkologist András Róna-Tas posits that the term Turk could be rooted in the East Iranian Saka language or in Turkic. (...)

The earliest Turkic-speaking peoples identifiable in Chinese sources are the Dingling, Gekun(Jiankun), and Xinli, located in South Siberia. The Chinese Book of Zhou (7th century) presents an etymology of the name Turk as derived from "helmet", explaining that taken this name refers to the shape of the Altai Mountains. According to Persian tradition, as reported by 11th-century ethnographer Mahmud of Kashgar and various other traditional Islamic scholars and historians, the name "Turk" stems from Tur [brother of Sarmatian and Iran in persian chronicle], one of the sons of Japheth (see Turan).

During the Middle Ages, various Turkic peoples of the Eurasian steppe were subsumed under the identity of the "Scythians". Between 400 CE and the 16th century, Byzantine sources use the name Σκύθαι (Skuthai) in reference to twelve different Turkic peoples.

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tur_(mythology)

Tur (Tur – son of Fereydun) (Persian: تور‎‎) is a character in the Persian epic Shahnameh. He is the second son of the legendary Iranian king Fereydun and brother of both Salm and Iraj. His name, [iranian] meaning "brave", was given to him by his father when the young prince bravely fights the dragon that had attacked him and his brothers. When Fereydun divides his empire among his sons, he gives Turkistan and China to his second son Tur. This is the beginning of the nation of Turan, the neighbor and rival of the Iranians. Some of the most important characters of Shahnameh, such as Afrasiab, are his descendants. He was killed by

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan

Tūrān (Persian توران) literally means "the land of the Tur", and is a region in Central Asia. The term is of Persian origin and may refer to a certain prehistoric human settlement, a historic geographical region, or a culture. The original Turanians were an Iranian tribe of the Avestan age.

In ancient Iranian mythology, Tūr or Turaj (Tuzh in Middle Persian) is the son of the emperor Fereydun. According to the account in the Shahnameh the nomadic tribes who inhabited these lands were ruled by Tūr. In that sense, the Turanians could be members of two Iranian peoples both descending from Fereydun, but with different geographical domains and often at war with each other.

And so on... there is also pashto ethypomogy, the closest to the scythian language.

About Indoscythians try find on your own, becasue I do not remember where it was.

Btw, all khagans of firsts turkut empires had iranic names.

[Rethel]

The only thing we know is they were semi-nomadic barbarians with bluish/green cat eyes and blonde hair. Probably "IE" proto-Turks.

It is enaugh to admit their IEness.

[Proto-Shaman]

It is enaugh to admit their IEness.
problem:

1. agglutination
2. Turkic ethnonyms and toponyms
3. Türk comes from Old Turkic "Türük" (Tür + ük suffix). uncle google will help you ;)
4. Fennic and Samoyedic peoples speak Uralic not IE.

[Rethel]

problem:

1. agglutination
2. Turkic ethnonyms and toponyms
3. Türk comes from Old Turkic "Türük" (Tür + ük suffix). uncle google will help you ;)
4. Fennic and Samoyedic peoples speak Uralic not IE.

You don;t know what they spoke.

Turkic speaking people (which were not clled turkic at all) at that
time were probably somewhere in Primorie or Inner Mongolia.

[Proto-Shaman]

You don;t know what they spoke.

Turkic speaking people (which were not clled turkic at all) at that
time were probably somewhere in Primorie or Inner Mongolia.

only in your wet IE daydreams. we actually know what kind of grammar they had. uncle google will help you ;)

[Rethel]

only in your wet IE daydreams. we actually know what kind of grammar they had. uncle google will help you ;)

From Bronze Age Iran... :picard2:

[Proto-Shaman]

From Bronze Age Iran... :picard2:
Irak + Anatolia + Iranian plateau to be exact... YEP.

[Proto-Shaman]

" Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup. Thus, their East Asian D4 or CZ matrilineal and West Eurasian R1b-M343 patrilineal origins reveal genealogical admixture between Caucasoid and Mongoloid ethnic groups, despite a Mongoloid physical appearance. "

6 months ago, I have posted a Bashkir guy who looked 100% Europid with typical Euro-Turanid tendencies, but he had haplogroup C3. You see, haplogroups do not correlate with physical appearance.

[Brutus]

R1b-V88 emerged in Europe and migrated to Africa from Europe. We have a Paleolithic sample of R1b-L754 (ancestral to V88) and a Neolithic sample of actual V88 - both from Europe (Villabruna & Els Trocs):

http://i.imgur.com/5aykXsv.png

http://i.imgur.com/5aykXsv.png

V88 came with the neolithic wave from the Fertile crescent during the agricultural revolution ....

[Kelmendasi]

V88 came with the neolithic wave from the Fertile crescent during the agricultural revolution ....
V88 was present in Europe before the Neolithic. It was found in Paleolithic Italy(Villabruna), Mesolithic Serbia/Romania(Iron gate cultures) and Mesolithic Ukraine. Though it is likely that V88 did come into Europe early on from west Asia.

[Brutus]

V88 was present in Europe before the Neolithic. It was found in Paleolithic Italy(Villabruna), Mesolithic Serbia/Romania(Iron gate cultures) and Mesolithic Ukraine. Though it is likely that V88 did come into Europe early on from west Asia.

Actually I was referring to the V88 of Africa (but you're right) in which these guys R-V88 people came with the migrants from Levant bringing crops and domesticated livestock. Although it was not as big or major as the agricultural revolution at Europe and the fact that the ones who went to Europe have covered the entire European continent and not only a single region (like in Chad's and Northern Cameroon case).

[Kelmendasi]

Actually I was referring to the V88 of Africa (but you're right) in which these guys R-V88 people came with the migrants from Levant bringing crops and domesticated livestock. Although it was not as big or major as the agricultural revolution at Europe and the fact that the ones who went to Europe have covered the entire European continent and not only a single region (like in Chad's and Northern Cameroon case).
Oh I see, in that case you are probably correct. Though I have seen some people suggest that maybe V88 in Africa came from Europe during the Paleolithic. Personally, I believe that a Middle eastern origin is more probable.

[Rocinante]

R1b Negro xD