Bilingual children

[jerney]

How do you feel about children with parents of different ethnicities growing up bilingually? By bilingual I am referring to being able to speak two languages at the native level from a young age/birth. Since language is an extension of culture (or considered the core or foundation of culture by some), would it be like the child growing up with two cultures? Would this negatively affect the child? Is it beneficial to the child?

I've been having a discussion with a particular Greek (no names mentioned), and he is vehemently opposed to his children learning English before school. I, however, speak English natively. I'm half German and can speak German, and he is, for whatever reason, less opposed to them learning German, but my German is nowhere near the level that I can speak English

It's my belief that you should raise kids according to the culture you live in. Since we will live in Greece, I believe our kids should be raised as such, none of this mixed culture stuff. The "dilemma" here though is that no matter how "Hellenized" or assimilated to a culture one can become, they still retain certain aspects of their previous culture. I will never be loud, I will never speak and laugh with my mouth full of food, I will still think it's rude to be late, I will think it's extremely disrespectful to smoke in a non-smokers house, etc. And no matter how well I learn to speak Greek, my native language with be English.

I personally will want to speak to my kids in my native language and have them speak back to me with the same level I can speak it. Contrary to a particular Greek's belief, this doesn't mean I'm trying to make his kids "American". If I spoke both Greek and English fluently from a young age, I would happily choose Greek over English, but that's not the case. When I have a baby, I will be its mother and there will be a bond there that exists between the both of us, and I just feel like I should be able to communicate to it in what comes from me most naturally. I realize there is a huge connection between culture and language, but I don't necessarily think me teaching my children English from birth will take away from their "Greekness", especially considering Greeks aren't the most modest people on this earth and you can't exactly escape the Greekness in Greece

[Korbis]

I´ve been encouraged to speak english in home since I was a little kid ( and because my father´s grasp of spanish was quite limited by then). But thanks to it I can speak it without that weird accent most "monolingual" spanish people have. And I´m fluid in 2 of the most spoken languages on earth.

I think its a healthy habit, as long you give preference to the local language of the country you are living in and emphasize in its culture. I´m not sure if that makes you smartest like some scholars argue or makes the learning capacity of the kid grow, but bilingualism doesn´t hurt either.

[Eldritch]

Children are not only perfectly capable of learning two (or more) languages simultaneously, it's almost as if their brains yearn for it. If your native language is English, your child will learn it if you speak half a word of in his/her presence twice a week anyway.

Tell this clueless wog, whoever he is, to go jump in the Bosphorus. :p

[Psychonaut]

Bilingualism is great, so long as the proficiency in the language of the nation you're living in doesn't unduly suffer because of it. The only downside I've ever read about it language dely (http://www.multilingualliving.com/2010/08/30/multilingualism-disorders-do-bilingual-children-tend-to-have-languages-delay/), something I observed in my neighbor's house a few years ago where they were trying to raise a trilingual child.

[The Lawspeaker]

I think that some extent it is beneficial for a child because in this globalist economy he will need his knowledge of foreign (business) ethics and has to be a fluent in several languages. So preferably in the case of a child of mine it should be Dutch and English (and Frisian).

[Comte Arnau]

It's my belief that you should raise kids according to the culture you live in.

I personally will be want to speak to my kids in my native language and have them speak back to me with the same level I can speak it.

And that is what you should do: speak to them in your native tongue. Specially if your partner's native language is the same as that of the country you're living in. Why?

1. It is the language you think of and feel. You may never be totally fluent in the country's one, and will commit mistakes here and there. That could somehow be an obstacle in mother-child communication.

2. If kids are living there, kids are going to learn the language fluently and natively by only watching tv, going to school and relating with friends. What may be first a bit of a confusion ends once the child starts to get language awareness, usually in between 6 and 10.

3. It is important that they see it's not just 'their mother's language', but also the language of one side of their family, so the language they'll need to use with several relatives or when they visit her mother's country.

4. Kids manage to learn several languages easily at their younger stages. The worries and concerns are usually more because of misconceptions of their parents and society in general. Knowing more than one language is never a bad thing. Even if the language is not a major one.

5. If the language happens to be English, then I don't think I need to say the advantages they'll have in the future for certain jobs if they speak it with native fluency. Chances and benefits will always be bigger, whether in Greece or out of it.


So yes, kids should be raised according to the culture they live in, without it being in detriment of knowing another language fluently. Real bilingualism is a privilege not every child can have. Depriving them of it is a big mistake.

[jerney]

Bilingualism is great, so long as the proficiency in the language of the nation you're living in doesn't unduly suffer because of it. The only downside I've ever read about it language dely (http://www.multilingualliving.com/2010/08/30/multilingualism-disorders-do-bilingual-children-tend-to-have-languages-delay/), something I observed in my neighbor's house a few years ago where they were trying to raise a trilingual child.

He tried to argue with me that the children will end up speaking shitty Greek with an American accent like the Greek Americans in Athens, and I told him that's virtually impossible if I am the only one ever speaking English to them. With a father, grandparents, relatives, friends, TV, radio, people on street exclusively speaking Greek there is no way they could speak Greek with a non-Greek accent or start speaking Greek improperly. In fact, it's even possible that they would start speaking English with a Greek/Greek influenced accent.

As for the delay thing, I've never heard that with bilingualism at least. As Eldrich said, language acquisition is innate and ingrained in humans and our brains, children's especially, are sponges to language acquisition, and this includes multi-lingual acquisition. Babies and children can even innately distinguish and separate grammar rules between two languages

[Electronic God-Man]

Yeah, being bilingual is probably a plus. Not only will they be able to speak two languages fluently, but I've heard that bilingual kids are more intelligent in other areas as well.

On the other hand, I don't think they would be as fully Greek as they could be. Language is a vehicle for culture. Your kids will probably have some aspects to their personalities that are influenced by having an American mother that speaks English. BUT, I really don't think you can get around that. Perhaps a certain Greek should have thought this out a little more if he really wanted to make sure his kids were Greek. lol.

[jerney]

I think that some extent it is beneficial for a child because in this globalist economy he will need his knowledge of foreign (business) ethics and has to be a fluent in several languages. So preferably in the case of a child of mine it should be Dutch and English (and Frisian).

Well, I kind of disagree here. I know you speak English extremely well, but you're not English, and unless you have children with an English speaking person, I completely disagree that you should teach them English before school. It is beneficial to a child in that it's more convenient to speak a language fluently early in life than have to learn the rules and grammar later on in life, but I think the Americanization/Anglicization of European langauges is actually really horrible and detrimental to those European cultures in general. I can't believe you don't understand how horrible it is to hear things like, "nice, schön nice" between two girls trying on clothes in a department stores dressing room.

[jerney]

Yeah, being bilingual is probably a plus. Not only will they be able to speak two languages fluently, but I've heard that bilingual kids are more intelligent in other areas as well.

On the other hand, I don't think they would be as fully Greek as they could be. Language is a vehicle for culture. Your kids will probably have some aspects to their personalities that are influenced by having an American mother that speaks English. BUT, I really don't think you can get around that. Perhaps a certain Greek should have thought this out a little more if he really wanted to make sure his kids were Greek. lol.


As for the fully Greek/American thing, I think it can go either way. Absinthe actually has an American mother, but as far as I know, she feels and considers herself fully Greek, but of course she can correct me if I am wrong.

For me, it's not necessarily about trying to incorporate another culture into their lives with the language. I truly do believe if you move to any foreign culture, you're not subject to their culture and you need to respect it fully and assimilate. I don't feel some cultural connection to English, it just happens that it's the language that I speak natively, and I want to be able to speak the language that comes most naturally to me with my own children.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well, I kind of disagree here. I know you speak English extremely well, but you're not English, and unless you have children with an English speaking person, I completely disagree that you should teach them English before school. It is beneficial to a child in that it's more convenient to speak a language fluently early in life than have to learn the rules and grammar later on in life, but I think the Americanization/Anglicization of European langauges is actually really horrible and detrimental to those European cultures in general. I can't believe you don't understand how horrible it is to hear things like, "nice, schön nice" between two girls trying on clothes in a department stores dressing room.
Well yes. If I was to marry a fellow Dutch person then it would be strictly monolingual.

[Electronic God-Man]

As for the fully Greek/American thing, I think it can go either way. Absinthe actually has an American mother, but as far as I know, she feels and considers herself fully Greek, but of course she can correct me if I am wrong.

For me, it's not necessarily about trying to incorporate another culture into their lives with the language. I truly do believe if you move to any foreign culture, you're not subject to their culture and you need to respect it fully and assimilate. I don't feel some cultural connection to English, it just happens that it's the language that I speak natively, and I want to be able to speak the language that comes most naturally to me with my own children.

I know you wouldn't want to be incorporating another culture into their lives, but it would simply follow by virtue of having an English-speaking American mother and speaking English fluently as a native language.

[Debaser11]

jerney, I think you have the right attitude. The problem is when the mother lives in a foreign country and has no respect for the culture around her. The mother may speak the country's native language a bit and even encourage her child to learn it better than she can speak it, but only as a utilitarian measure. That's a huge problem. Your kids will be fine as bilinguals with the thought you're putting into this matter.

[Tyrrhenoi]

I personally will want to speak to my kids in my native language and have them speak back to me with the same level I can speak it.

I was raised bilingual, till a certain level - the first 10 years of my life I lived in Italy. - My mom is Dutch and my Dad Italian - so my mom started in my early years with reading me dutch childbooks and teaching me Dutch songs - often she spoke Dutch to me - from what I can remember she succeded - When I came to Holland (at age 10) I only needed 2-3 month to catch up the language-level of the Dutch kids my age.

The result is that I don't need the Italian language anymore - but when I am tired after a hard days work - I have the option on turning the telly and zapp to Italia 1 and listen to all the bullshit the Italians have to tell - :D:D
On this forum it is also very handy - I can talk with the Dutch in Dutch and with the Italians in Italian - :D How European ! ;)

In my opinion : it is a blessing

[jerney]

I'm not even opposed to speaking Greek to them when they get older, I just feel like in order to develop the bond I want with my children, I need to speak to them in my native language when they're babies/young children. There aren't many things in this world more "natural" than the bond between a mother and her child and during this time babies and children are spending most of their time with their mother and this is where that bonds develops. So accordingly I would want and need to communicate with them in the most natural way that comes to me in order to develop the relationship I want with them.

Once there is a strong foundation there I don't feel as strongly about speaking only English, but for that reason more than any other it's pretty important for me to speak with them in English from a young age. From a more practical angle, I do think it would be extremely beneficial for them to have the advantage over other Europeans (in academics, work, business, etc) by speaking two language at a native level.

[Raikaswinþs]

This is the best video I have ever watched about the subject of this thread. By far

fOIM1_xOSro

[Óttar]

Learning 2 or indeed more languages is very beneficial to a child. Their brains soak up language like a sponge and they have not lost their childlike fascination. I would encourage you to teach your kids as many languages as possible, so German, English and Greek.

My kids will speak German and maybe some Hindi as well.

[Aemma]

Excellent thread and question jerney and excellent responses put forth. I too was raised bilingual: French and English. We spoke French with Mom and attended French school all through elementary school. We spoke in English with Da (who, despite being a French Canuck himself, had broken French at best since his own Mom was English, hence his own mother tongue actually being English) and attended high school in English. It worked out extremely well.

Sorry "a certain Greek man" ;) but I think your concerns are unfounded. Your kids are going to be immersed in the Greek language and culture. They'll be Greek for all intents and purposes!! To learn English from their mom will just be an added bonus. There is nothing more heart-warming than watching a child's mom rock her baby to sleep while singing lullabyes in her own mother tongue, whatever language that may be. :)

You'll all be fine and have terrific Greek kids! Trust me! :)

And your instincts are all so very bang on, jerney! :thumb001:

[Loki]

Being fluent in English is a must, and will give the kid a massive headstart in life and career. Bilingualism is beneficial for cognitive development.

[Austin]

Lol if he wanted his kids to be 100% Greek and have a 100% Greek accent he should not have married an American. He is attempting the impossible with you already speaking English, unless you drop the language completely that is.

[Gamera]

Being fluent in English is a must, and will give the kid a massive headstart in life and career. Bilingualism is beneficial for cognitive development.

I agree. My mother made me learn English and Italian since I was little, apart from Spanish of course. My English is very good nowadays, my Italian is quite bad since my learning stopped when I was young (unfortunately), but for example if you give me a text written in Italian, I can understand pretty much all, still.

It's very beneficial IMO.

[Wyn]

Once there is a strong foundation there I don't feel as strongly about speaking only English, but for that reason more than any other it's pretty important for me to speak with them in English from a young age.

Yes - and to focus on having your children learning English before school: would that be the same as most places, about 4? Try to imagine being a mother and not being able to even start being able to speak to your children in your native language until 4 years after you've given birth to them. That sounds horrible, to be frank.

[jerney]

Lol if he wanted his kids to be 100% Greek and have a 100% Greek accent he should not have married an American. He is attempting the impossible with you already speaking English, unless you drop the language completely that is.

I hate to quote myself, but..


He tried to argue with me that the children will end up speaking shitty Greek with an American accent like the Greek Americans in Athens, and I told him that's virtually impossible if I am the only one ever speaking English to them. With a father, grandparents, relatives, friends, TV, radio, people on street exclusively speaking Greek there is no way they could speak Greek with a non-Greek accent or start speaking Greek improperly. In fact, it's even possible that they would start speaking English with a Greek/Greek influenced accent.

[SwordoftheVistula]

The earlier you start learning languages, the easier they are to learn. English is an essential language in the modern world, that's why even major countries like China are eager to begin teaching it to children as soon as they can.

Just tell him that aversion to learning & teaching second languages is a quintessentially American trait :thumbs up

[jerney]

The earlier you start learning languages, the easier they are to learn. English is an essential language in the modern world, that's why even major countries like China are eager to begin teaching it to children as soon as they can.

Just tell him that aversion to learning & teaching second languages is a quintessentially American trait :thumbs up

His aversion is not to them learning a second or third or fourth language, it's having another or additional native language that isn't Greek. He doesn't want their first thoughts to be in English or any other language because, "Greek thought is superior" :rolleyes:

[Gamera]

His aversion is not to them learning a second or third or fourth language, it's having another or additional native language that isn't Greek. He doesn't want their first thoughts to be in English or any other language because, "Greek thought is superior" :rolleyes:

And how will anyone even know in what language the child's first thought was? That's dumb. It's not like it's going to mark you for life.

[Turkophagos]

Lol if he wanted his kids to be 100% Greek (...) he should not have married an American.

An 100% europid/caucasian kid, with greek ancestry and raised in a greek society is 100% Greek.

To back this statement up with a short history flashback, that's how it's been when the Mycaenaeans were assimilating the pre-hellenic people in Greece, when Greeks were colonising the mediterranean, by exporting 10000 men from the metropolis each time who would buy or steal wifes from their new lands, when hellenistic Greeks were assimilating Thracians and Illyrians or when Byzantine Greeks were assimilating Slavs and Albos.

[jerney]

And how will anyone even know in what language the child's first thought was? That's dumb. It's not like it's going to mark you for life.

Even questioning that statement in the first place proves you haven't met many Greeks. :wink

[Curtis24]

It depends. YOu have to take into account what will help maximize the child's success in life. If you live in Greece, teaching your child English will drastically help them in life. HOwever, if you and your husband were to move to America, then it wouldn't really be necessary to teach your child Greek(though, it probably would enhance their life and attractiveness to others).

Truth is, bilinguals are seen as being more attractive, this will be especially true if your child is a boy. And keep in mind, being bilingual doesn't necessarily mean being multicultural or rejecting one's birth culture.

[Foxy]

Well, I study foreign languages and bilinguism is a usual thematic. I can say that statistically bilingual children in Italy are able to use Italian language better than people who speak only Italian: they usually have a larger vocabolary and are able to use also more complex forms.
The fact that they grow up in two cultures is not so negative. I have a Russian friend who has been living in Italy since she was 2 years and she feels Italian (today she doesn't fit with other Russian girls), though in my opinions she still has something Russian.
I also have a friend who is half Greek half Italian. In his case the difference with other Italians is absolutely not perceivable, but he is not able to speak Greek. An other friend of mine is half Italian half Croatian. He is neither able to speak Croatian.
That you are a mix doesn't make you authomatically bilingual, but I think that when a mix is able to speak only one language he is actually loosing something. Then I dunno, I live in a family which is really opened to not-Italian cultures so I fit good with everyone and I am pretty fascinated by foreigners and mixed people (white + white mix is better :p )
About the last phrase, I had not read Curtis' last phrase yet, lol. I suppose he is right :P But it works also with females. Men are fascinated by bilingual women, here at least.

[The Ripper]

In my own experience, having two native languages is very beneficial and enriching.

[Sahson]

Yes Jerney of course you should, if you want s/he to know english too. remember you are the parent as well. My aunt is Hungarian born, but naturalized as a Swedish. Her husband is Austrian. She taught her children Swedish, and English, but she stopped teaching them swedish at 10. They are rusty, but when she talks, to her children they pick it up fast, almost as if it was an instinct even at 18.

It would be beneficial for your descendants to know two languages fluently. I have found the more you learn and gain knowledge of languages you become aware, and understand how your native language, like transitive verbs, how a verb can lose it's transitivity. Noun cases, and declension of the language, and syntax etc. :)

Plus a language is generally to core to a culture, most people on unilang chose to learn a language, not for the hell of it, but because there's something beneficial. Like Polish make great sausages, so learn polish and talk in polish to a polish butcher, and get great discounts!! :D

[Moonbird]

To get the chance of learning two languages as a child is a great gift. I wish I myself have had that opportunity.

[Oinakos Growion]

If they're going to be raised in Greece (attending Greek schools, socialising in Greek, watching Greek TV, etc) they will be Greek and think in Greek. Even if you tried them to be something else you couldn't avoid that - maybe only if both parents were not Greek, which is not the case. They'll be Greek and speak Greek with no foreign accent; if anything they'll end up speaking fluent English with a slight Greek accent.
It has been proved in sociolinguistics that you end up thinking (most of the time at least) in the language you socialise.
You speaking in English to them will only make them learn that language in a natural way with the so desired "native speaker intuition" (regardless of the accent). After all they will be learning it at school and they'd eventually ask you for help with the homework ;) Think of all the time you'll save if you just speak English to them from the start :P After all, in family reunions, you'll probably switch to Greek every now and then too.
Bilingualism is always positive as it gives the child more "tools" and stimulates their synaptic functions. They might be a bit confused in the early years mixing words and stuff like that, but the benefits clearly surpass the possible initial trouble.
They'll feel Greek through and through, but they'll be delighted they'll be able to speak another useful and widespread language when they grow up. It'll also save them time in case they want to learn a third language on their own.

[Svanhild]

Bilingual competences are an advantage, no question. However, a lot of parents overdo it with early childhood education. Overload and stress are the consequences. I study social works and childhood edcuation plays a major role. Academic researches show that it's no problem to learn two languages as a native tongue but more languages cold lead to an unconscious identity conflict.

The other question is if denial of half of their parental heritage is appropriate for children. Blood is thicker than water and no matter how much is the focus on Greek nativity in upbringing and education, they won't be full Greeks by family line, ethnicity and, most probably, by visual complexion. To withhold them half of their descent could be seen as forced denial later. By your children.

[antonio]

I agree with all of you to a certain extent: I would say that exists a promoted histeria about children learning international languages like English from early childhood. I started learning English at 11 y.o. with the updated slow-paced method of Spanish public school at that time, and, even acknowledging my skills are very imperfect, I bet if I ever had real need of it, I had been able to master it (at early ages than current o.c.) without no special difficulties.

[Sahson]

Bilingual competences are an advantage, no question. However, a lot of parents overdo it with early childhood education. Overload and stress are the consequences. I study social works and childhood edcuation plays a major role. Academic researches show that it's no problem to learn two languages as a native tongue but more languages cold lead to an unconscious identity conflict.

The other question is if denial of half of their parental heritage is appropriate for children. Blood is thicker than water and no matter how much is the focus on Greek nativity in upbringing and education, they won't be full Greeks by family line, ethnicity and, most probably, by visual complexion. To withhold them half of their descent could be seen as forced denial later. By your children.


That is true to some, my grandfather spoke german to me, my graqndmother, and mother spoke french, and english. I left England when I was a toddler. In doing so I lost my grandfathers, and mothers german/french interaction. According to them, because they looked after me while my mom work, I was speaking better German, and french then English.

When we were in Malaysia, I lost a lot of interaction at home with my mom, no more french, and I had to take speech therapy, and my reading, speaking and writing was 2 years behind everyone else in year 1.

I hardly remember any German, just a few phrases. My French is okay...

[Ibericus]

I grew up trilingual as a child, since im half french and because I grew up in Catalonia, which is a bilingual area

[jerney]

The other question is if denial of half of their parental heritage is appropriate for children. Blood is thicker than water and no matter how much is the focus on Greek nativity in upbringing and education, they won't be full Greeks by family line, ethnicity and, most probably, by visual complexion.

The Greek concept of ethnicity is different than yours. They'd be considered fully Greek by Greeks by having a Greek father, by being born and raised in Greece around Greek culture and by speaking Greek. I would not try to shame them from knowing or learning about their Germanic ancestry, but I am of mixed Germanic ancestry myself, and although I identify with my German side the most, I wasn't raised in Germany, I was raised in the US. I'm not exactly sure what kind of identity that is to pass on. I would not hide it from them or discourage them from learning about it if they wanted, it would likely just not be part of their identity because they would consider themselves Greek over anything else.


most probably, by visual complexion.
Because all Greeks are swarthy and black haired, right :rolleyes:

[Comte Arnau]

Because all Greeks are swarthy and black haired, right :rolleyes:

No, only the modern ones. The ancient ones were blond and blue-eyed, I've seen it in films.

[Treffie]

The other question is if denial of half of their parental heritage is appropriate for children. Blood is thicker than water and no matter how much is the focus on Greek nativity in upbringing and education, they won't be full Greeks by family line, ethnicity and, most probably, by visual complexion. To withhold them half of their descent could be seen as forced denial later. By your children.

No, bringing children up bilingually allows them to be able to appreciate both cultures. It doesn't dilute their heritage either.

[Loki]

An 100% europid/caucasian kid, with greek ancestry and raised in a greek society is 100% Greek.


True. This is preferable to the kid constantly being torn between two different identities. As far as language is concerned, I still think bilingualism is very good (speaking of own experience -- I mostly taught myself English and it helped me a great deal).

[Svanhild]

Because all Greeks are swarthy and black haired, right :rolleyes:
I haven't said that but knowing how you and Maniot look like it's well possible that your children are going to look halfway between you and him. And you don't look Greek.

No, bringing children up bilingually allows them to be able to appreciate both cultures. It doesn't dilute their heritage either.
Sure, but children learn from their parents by default. If jerney entirely abandons and relinquishs her former heritage (in order that her children become full Greeks) on Maniot's behalf her children won't learn much about this side of their ancestry. Besides language. And not even that is sure when I look at the reason for this very thread.

Why does he has less problems with German language as the possible other bilingual element?

[Tyrrhenoi]

An 100% europid/caucasian kid, with greek ancestry and raised in a greek society is 100% Greek.

- 100% Greek ? By who's perspective? The childs? or the people arround him/her? -

In my opinion - if the child only would speak one native language - the child would (later) consider itself 100% Greek - (Svanhild calls this denial of ancestry) :D

- if the child speaks two native languages, then he/she has a connection with multiple ancestries - then the child would consider it self 50 -50!

- It does not matter in which society you are grown!
- The second option is equal in my situation - I can't choose a side!

[Absinthe]

To me there's not even a question, since the future mom is an English speaker then the children should learn both languages. They will have to learn English at some point anyway, so if they learn it faster than other kids then it is only to their advantage.

I can't think of any way that this will alter the children 's identity. By the way I know Greek couples who've hired nannies to speak English or French to their kids from a very young age while otherwise being raised in a Greek environment :)

[jerney]

I haven't said that but knowing how you and Maniot look like it's well possible that your children are going to look halfway between you and him. And you don't look Greek.

I don't look Greek, but if you ever travel to Greece, I'm sure your perception of what a typical Greek look is will change because there is a wide array of Greek phenotypes which range from swarthy to very light. So, contrary to popular belief, not all Greeks are swarthy and many can pass as central European.


Why does he has less problems with German language as the possible other bilingual element?

No idea, you'd have to ask him. I guess he just prefers the culture associated with German over that of English. I would actually choose German over English if I could speak it at the same level, but I don't.

[Austin]

An 100% europid/caucasian kid, with greek ancestry and raised in a greek society is 100% Greek.

To back this statement up with a short history flashback, that's how it's been when the Mycaenaeans were assimilating the pre-hellenic people in Greece, when Greeks were colonising the mediterranean, by exporting 10000 men from the metropolis each time who would buy or steal wifes from their new lands, when hellenistic Greeks were assimilating Thracians and Illyrians or when Byzantine Greeks were assimilating Slavs and Albos.

Ehhhh even though I am an American myself I'd be the first to say that if you are a Greek racialist or Greek person who highly values their native tongue then the worst thing you could do is marry an American. That is all I was saying. He seems to have hopelessly undermined any attempt at them not speaking/thinking English because he married one of it's staunchest advocates.

Two reasons:

-Americans are even more stuck on English than the English are stuck on English

-Americans are easily the least bilingual people in the Western world both in practice and belief in it

I know you are obviously an exception since you already speak more than one language but still it is apparent you are steadfast in having English play a role so you would fall under my generalizations.


See to me I wouldn't care if I married a German girl and she wanted me to give up English. I'd do it to make her happy but only because I see it as the guys role to cater to her desires not the other way around. I bet he will give in to you eventually for this reason as he will see it is important to you.

[jerney]

Ehhhh even though I am an American myself I'd be the first to say that if you are a Greek racialist or Greek person who highly values their native tongue then the worst thing you could do is marry an American. That is all I was saying. He seems to have hopelessly undermined any attempt at them not speaking/thinking English because he married one of it's staunchest advocates.

Actually you said speaking English would make his children non Greek, which is completely untrue. What we're talking about here is that it's not your place as an American from Texas to speak about what it means to be Greek.


See to me I wouldn't care if I married a German girl and she wanted me to give up English. I'd do it to make her happy but only because I see it as the guys role to cater to her desires not the other way around. I bet he will give in to you eventually for this reason as he will see it is important to you.

You shouldn't cater to anyone's desires. If you want a healthy, successful relationship you should communicate and come to a mutual understanding about things.

[Austin]

No I just mean that a true die-hard nationalist/native language type would be essentially "crossing lines" to marry any other than a native Greek speaker. Not that it would make his children non-Greek. (Although let's be honest, to some it would make the children non-Greek)

[jerney]

No I just mean that a true die-hard nationalist/native language type would be essentially "crossing lines" to marry any other than a native Greek speaker. Not that it would make his children non-Greek. (Although let's be honest, to some it would make the children non-Greek)

Being raised with a Greek father as Greeks and in Greece, no Greek would ever consider them non Greek. It's as simple as that. If some American doesn't want to consider them as such, that's fine, but you don't get to determine what it means to be Greek anyway.

[Turkophagos]

Greeks with a non greek parent who were raised in Greece would have never been described as "half-Greek" (this would have been extremely rude and oxymoron, you're either Greek or not) or even worse, in our case, "american from his/her mother". Instead, one would describe the situation as "his/her mother is American".

This may help on understanding what is considered Greek here.

[Turkophagos]

lol at the poll results.

[Austin]

Greeks with a non greek parent who were raised in Greece would have never been described as "half-Greek" (this would have been extremely rude and oxymoron, you're either Greek or not) or even worse, in our case, "american from his/her mother". Instead, one would describe the situation as "his/her mother is American".

This may help on understanding what is considered Greek here.

Yes I know I am talking about in a purely racial/nationalist type sense. Of course I and most see them as being Greek if they are raised in that culture and live there and are both European descent. I meant that a purist type individual might not see it as such seeing as one is American hence not full Greek and one is Greek.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greeks with a non greek parent who were raised in Greece would have never been described as "half-Greek" (this would have been extremely rude and oxymoron, you're either Greek or not) or even worse, in our case, "american from his/her mother". Instead, one would describe the situation as "his/her mother is American".

This may help on understanding what is considered Greek here.

Oh yes, the Greeks and their culture of Hellenization. Ultimately, the kid would be half-Greek, English and German. Also, it's nothing personal but I wouldn't jump in bed with an Englishwoman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_%281877%E2%80%931878%29#Intervention_b y_the_Great_Powers) or a chick of half-English descent for that matter.

[Austin]

Ultimately, the kid would be half-Greek, English and German.


See this is all I mean. Not 100% Greek but still obviously European. Perhaps 100% Greek in mind/spirit/culture though.

[The Ripper]

lol at the poll results.

You lose. :D

[Tolleson]

How do you feel about children with parents of different ethnicities growing up bilingually? By bilingual I am referring to being able to speak two languages at the native level from a young age/birth. Since language is an extension of culture (or considered the core or foundation of culture by some), would it be like the child growing up with two cultures? Would this negatively affect the child? Is it beneficial to the child?

I've been having a discussion with a particular Greek (no names mentioned), and he is vehemently opposed to his children learning English before school. I, however, speak English natively. I'm half German and can speak German, and he is, for whatever reason, less opposed to them learning German, but my German is nowhere near the level that I can speak English

It's my belief that you should raise kids according to the culture you live in. Since we will live in Greece, I believe our kids should be raised as such, none of this mixed culture stuff. The "dilemma" here though is that no matter how "Hellenized" or assimilated to a culture one can become, they still retain certain aspects of their previous culture. I will never be loud, I will never speak and laugh with my mouth full of food, I will still think it's rude to be late, I will think it's extremely disrespectful to smoke in a non-smokers house, etc. And no matter how well I learn to speak Greek, my native language with be English.

I personally will want to speak to my kids in my native language and have them speak back to me with the same level I can speak it. Contrary to a particular Greek's belief, this doesn't mean I'm trying to make his kids "American". If I spoke both Greek and English fluently from a young age, I would happily choose Greek over English, but that's not the case. When I have a baby, I will be its mother and there will be a bond there that exists between the both of us, and I just feel like I should be able to communicate to it in what comes from me most naturally. I realize there is a huge connection between culture and language, but I don't necessarily think me teaching my children English from birth will take away from their "Greekness", especially considering Greeks aren't the most modest people on this earth and you can't exactly escape the Greekness in Greece

It is wonderful to see adults being responsible and discussing these important matters prior to be sexually active and potentially bringing a child into an environment that may be later filled with resentment and disappointment. Better to know now than later the strong feelings of either parent on various topics. A mature decision can be made to continue the relationship or not. :)

I hope everything works out for the both of you. :thumbs up

[Comte Arnau]

The poll results are just a slap of common sense. You must admit, Eduardo. :D

[Bobby Martnen]

Bilingualism leads to multiculturalism. My children will be raised monolingual.