Genetic plot with Greeks: It is clear which are Slavicized, and which plot near Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

One set is islanders which plot with mainland south Italians. The other ones drifting toward Balkan and Poland, are mainland.

http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/GreecePlot.png


http://www.unz.com/gnxp/greeks-with-slavic-ancestry-and-without/

[Fustan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia

[Sikeliot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia

Ok? The point is that there are Greeks who have significant NE European influence, and then those (mostly the Aegean islands) who are similar to Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

You can see here that islanders are more or less like southern Italians, while mainlanders are Slavicized or have more NE Euro.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Shhhhh Greeks are pure

[Dianatomia]

Ok? The point is that there are Greeks who have significant NE European influence, and then those (mostly the Aegean islands) who are similar to Sicily.

Once again. There is no onus for all modern Greeks to be entirely identical, just as there is no onus for all Ancient Greeks to be entirely identical. If you can show us that all ancient Greeks where identical, and there was zero discrepancy between mainland Greeks and some islanders or South Italians/Sicilians, then maybe we can start discussing any form of Sclavinization of some Greeks based on that argument.

Greece lies in the Balkans, ancient Greeks lived (evolved) in the Balkans. It would be illogical to start with if we would assume that Ancient Greeks on an autosomal scale, did not (even slightly) deviate towards the Balkans compared to native Sicilians (Sikeliots and Phoenicians) or even Cretans (Minoans). Even if many Ancient Greeks migrated to Sicily. Then a mix of these peoples (Greeks, Sikeliots, Phoenicians) would as a rule be further from the Balkans than the Ancient Greeks who are in fact from the Balkans. So do the math. Greeks are exactly where they should be on those scales. Very close to Sicilians and South Italians, but deviate a little bit towards the Balkans.

And one more thing, Greeks are clustering far from Poles, but they are clustering closer to Poles than Sicilians do. Who says that Ancient Greeks did not cluster closer to Poles than Ancient Sicilians (Sikeliots and Phoenicians) did? After all, the IE tribes such as Proto-Hellenes, Dorians who entered the Balkan peninsula came from Eastern Europe to start with.

I am not arguing that Greeks are pure ancient Greeks ofcourse, but your maps prove the continuity of the Greeks rather than the opposite. A person who argues against the continuity of the Greeks would be mind boggled to argue why Greeks are so close to South Italians in the first place. Why are Macedonian Greeks so relatively close to that isolated island 800 km due south called Crete which was inhabited by non-Greek Minoans in the first place? Why are mainland Greeks so close, or even overlap to Ioanian (Western Anatolia) Greeks?

[Sikeliot]

If you look at the plot, when compared to the more outlying southern Italians, the more outlying Greeks are nearly halfway to Poland. So for some Greeks, the northeastern shift, whether Slavic or not, is substantial.

[Dianatomia]

If you look at the plot, when compared to the more outlying southern Italians, the more outlying Greeks are nearly halfway to Poland. So for some Greeks, the northeastern shift, whether Slavic or not, is substantial.

It is, but the Southern Italian outlyers are not Ancient Greek prime examples obviously. It says nothing more than the Cypriot outlyers compared to Greek outliers. What about the Balkan outliers? Using the same line of thought, some Balkan outliers would be similar to Paleo-Balkanians right?

Let's forget about the modern Greeks for a moment. And let's ask ourselves where we should place the Ancient Greeks on this map. What would seam logical to you? That they are exactly identical to Cretans? That they should completely overlap with Southern Italians? Where should they be compared to their Balkan neighbors? I just wonder, where would you place them and why?

[Sikeliot]

It is, but the Southern Italian outlyers are not Ancient Greek prime examples obviously. It says nothing more than the Cypriot outlyers compared to Greek outliers. What about the Balkan outliers? Using the same line of thought, some Balkan outliers would be similar to Paleo-Balkanians right?

Let's forget about the modern Greeks for a moment. And let's ask ourselves where we should place the Ancient Greeks on this map. What would seam logical to you? That they are exactly identical to Cretans? That they should completely overlap with Southern Italians? Where should they be compared to their Balkan neighbors? I just wonder, where would you place them and why?

IMO they would be more Northern shifted than southern Italians, but less so than most modern Greeks.

[Dianatomia]

IMO they would be more Northern shifted than southern Italians, but less so than most modern Greeks.

So I take it somewhere between Southern Italy and Balkan, but less towards Balkan. Right?

But then I ask myself should the outliers of the Sclavinized paleo-Balkanians, the ones with the least Slavic ancestry, not be close to the Ancient Greeks? At least to the Ancient Greek outliers? The Ancient Macedonians for example, or the Ancient Epirots?

[Sikeliot]

So I take it somewhere between Southern Italy and Balkan, but less towards Balkan. Right?

But then I ask myself should the outliers of the Sclavinized paleo-Balkanians, the ones with the least Slavic ancestry, not be close to the Ancient Greeks? At least to the Ancient Greek outliers? The Ancient Macedonians for example, or the Ancient Epirots?

They would be close to ancient Greeks but who represents them today?

Anyway yes. It is clear southern Italians and Cretans shift toward Cyprus, so I assume mainlanders never did so much.

[meisje]

According to which calculator, Greek Islanders and Anatolian Greeks come close to Sicilians and Levant people,Pontics are closest to Armenians,Mainlanders will come close to Albanians-Central Italians and Bulgarians,It is what I have seen about Greeks in different calculators

[Dianatomia]

According to which calculator, Greek Islanders and Anatolian Greeks come close to Sicilians and Levant people,Pontics are closest to Armenians,Mainlanders will come close to Albanians-Central Italians and Bulgarians,It is what I have seen about Greeks in different calculators

Anatolian (Western) Greeks often overlap or are very close to mainland Greeks. So are Greeks from the Ionian islands as well as the Northern Islands. Greeks from the Dodecanesse and Cretans often cluster further south. But certainly not close to the Levant and quite close to mainland Greeks. Only Cypriots tend to deviate somewhat to the levant. As for Pontians, haven't seen any autosomal map with any Greek overlapping Armenians. There is a clear gap between any Greek and an Armenian (or Turk for that matter). But I would bet that Pontians deviate somewhat from the bulk of Greeks. Not as much as Cypriots though.

Which one according to you are Pontians?

http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/GreecePlot.png

[Dianatomia]

They would be close to ancient Greeks but who represents them today?


I think the Balkan outliers closest to Greeks would represent them best today.

[Coolguy1]

I would like to see Pontian results

[meisje]

,Fir
Anatolian (Western) Greeks often overlap or are very close to mainland Greeks. So are Greeks from the Ionian islands as well as the Northern Islands. Greeks from the Dodecanesse and Cretans often cluster further south. But certainly not close to the Levant and quite close to mainland Greeks. Only Cypriots tend to deviate somewhat to the levant. As for Pontians, haven't seen any autosomal map with any Greek overlapping Armenians. There is a clear gap between any Greek and an Armenian (or Turk for that matter). But I would bet that Pontians deviate somewhat from the bulk of Greeks. Not as much as Cypriots though.

Which one according to you are Pontians?

http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/GreecePlot.png
You are generally right,Smyrna Greeks match both Mainlanders and Western Turks,Greeks of Cappadocia match close to Levant people than Greeks and Pontic to Armenians,About this plot,I do not know this plot according to which calculator,For me,Oracles are much more better and important than pcas

[catgeorge]

This makes no sense - Greek Romaniotes and Greek Sephardics are small in number to have such a representation.

Greek Romaniotes are Greek and Greek Sephardics are Spanish. Don't know how Greek Sephs overlap with Turks so tightly and Greek Romaniotes are so far apart from other Greeks?

No sense at all. Would be better off including Albania, Romania and Serbia

[Dianatomia]

,Fir
You are generally right,Smyrna Greeks match both Mainlanders and Western Turks,Greeks of Cappadocia match close to Levant people than Greeks and Pontic to Armenians,About this plot,I do not know this plot according to which calculator,For me,Oracles are much more better and important than pcas

Yes well, I haven't seen any autosomal map which shows 'some' Greeks overlap with Armenians. Nor with Western Turks for that matter, although western Turks deviate somewhat from other Turks towards the Greeks. But they do not overlap.
I know Pontians may deviate somewhat from the bulk of Greeks, but they are not far from it. What I do know is that, unlike Armenians, Pontians have substantial E-V13 which indicates some Balkan ancestry.

[meisje]

Yes well, I haven't seen any autosomal map which shows 'some' Greeks overlap with Armenians. Nor with Western Turks for that matter, although western Turks deviate somewhat from other Turks towards the Greeks. But they do not overlap.
I know Pontians may deviate somewhat from the bulk of Greeks, but they are not far from it. What I do know is that, unlike Armenians, Pontians have substantial E-V13 which indicates some Balkan ancestry.

I talk about Oracles, not PCA's

Oracle of a Pontic Greek

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 51.31
2 South_Central_Asian 16.22
3 European_Early_Farmers 12.88
4 Near_East 10.19
5 North_African 3.66
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 3.15
7 Arctic 0.81
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.75
9 Melano_Polynesian 0.45
10 Archaic_African 0.32
11 South_East_Asian 0.25


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenian @ 5.791450
2 Armenian_Yerevan @ 7.868234
3 Assyrian_Arzni @ 8.832425
4 Turk_Kayseri @ 9.561222
5 Jew_Tat @ 10.427469
6 Georgian_Jew @ 10.626880
7 Turk_Trabzon @ 10.678276
8 Assyrian_Iraqi @ 10.763093
9 Turk @ 11.277681
10 Turk_Adana @ 12.790711
11 Lebanese_Druze @ 13.484449
12 Iraqi_Jew @ 13.563225
13 Cypriot @ 13.604694
14 Iraqi_Chaldean @ 13.670387
15 Uzbekistani_Jew @ 13.674260
16 Turk_Istanbul @ 13.701619
17 Kakheti @ 13.799368
18 Iranian_Jew @ 14.487145
19 Druze @ 14.549193
20 Kurd_Jew @ 14.906177

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Smyrna +50% Kakheti @ 3.646509


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% French_Jew +25% Georgian @ 2.684206


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Armenian + Armenian + French_Jew + Georgian @ 2.684206
2 Armenian + Assyrian_Iraqi + French_Jew + Georgian_Imereti @ 2.694613
3 Armenian + Armenian + French_Jew + Georgian_Megrelia @ 2.752648
4 Armenian + Georgian_Imereti + Greek_Smyrna + Syrian_Jew @ 2.758462
5 Armenian + Armenian + French_Jew + Georgian_Imereti @ 2.763435
6 Assyrian_Iraqi + Georgian_Imereti + Sicilian_Agrigento + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.792363
7 Assyrian_Arzni + Assyrian_Arzni + Georgian_Imereti + Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.809469
8 Armenian + Assyrian_Arzni + Georgian_Imereti + Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.821643
9 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Megrelia + Sephardic_Jew @ 2.837512
10 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Imereti + Sicilian_Agrigento @ 2.845707
11 Armenian + Assyrian_Iraqi + Georgian_Imereti + Sicilian_East @ 2.852721
12 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian_Imereti + Sephardic_Jew @ 2.852956
13 Assyrian_Iraqi + French_Jew + Georgian + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.889752
14 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Italian_Jew @ 2.895249
15 Armenian + Armenian + French_Jew + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.903354
16 Armenian + Assyrian_Iraqi + Georgian_Megrelia + Greek_Islands @ 2.906138
17 Armenian + Assyrian_Arzni + Georgian_Imereti + Sicilian_Agrigento @ 2.911435
18 Assyrian_Iraqi + Georgian_Megrelia + Sicilian_Agrigento + Turk_Trabzon @ 2.911772
19 Armenian + Assyrian_Arzni + Georgian_Megrelia + Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.914156
20 Armenian + Armenian + Georgian + Sephardic_Jew @ 2.916053



Half Pontic/half Thessaly Greek

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Smyrna @ 5.814467
2 Cretan @ 6.902750
3 Azov_Greek @ 7.639424
4 Greek_Islands @ 7.836761
5 Turk_Istanbul @ 8.881084
6 Turk_Balikesir @ 9.261213
7 Greek_Athens @ 9.804976
8 Italian_South @ 9.845515
9 Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 10.044086
10 Turk @ 10.286810
11 Greek @ 10.417746
12 Turk_Aydin @ 10.721578
13 Cypriot @ 10.738101
14 Romanian_Jew @ 10.794019
15 Turk_Kayseri @ 11.120028
16 Greek_Phokaia @ 11.379559
17 Greek_Macedonia @ 11.866965
18 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 12.436172
19 Sicilian_East @ 12.506512
20 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 12.668736

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.148592


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Armenian +25% Greek_Phokaia +25% Italian_Tuscan @ 1.539964


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Peloponnesos + Greek_Smyrna + Greek_Smyrna + Kakheti @ 1.463437
2 Armenian + Armenian + Greek_Phokaia + Italian_Tuscan @ 1.539964
3 Albanian_Tirana + Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.600579
4 Greek_Smyrna + Greek_Smyrna + Greek_Thessaly + Kakheti @ 1.650369
5 Armenian + Armenian + Greek_Phokaia + Italian_Piedmont @ 1.671353
6 Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.672197
7 Armenian + Armenian + Greek_Peloponnesos + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.679579
8 Armenian_Yerevan + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Athens + Italian_Piedmont @ 1.686562
9 Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Athens + Italian_Piedmont @ 1.700925
10 Albanian_Tirana + Armenian_Yerevan + Armenian_Yerevan + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.707614
11 Armenian + Armenian + Central_Greek + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.713616
12 Albanian_Tirana + Armenian + Armenian + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.727777
13 Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Phokaia + Italian_Piedmont @ 1.728752
14 Armenian + Armenian + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.736081
15 Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek + Italian_Piedmont @ 1.753605
16 Greek_Northwest + Italian_Abruzzo + Jew_Tat + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.760962
17 Albanian_Tirana + Armenian + Assyrian_Arzni + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.764329
18 Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Peloponnesos + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.766480
19 Armenian + Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Athens + Italian_Tuscan @ 1.781399
20 Armenian_Yerevan + Crimean_Tatar_Coast + Greek_Smyrna + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.783810

Half Central Greek/half Pontic Greek

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Athens @ 6.141828
2 Cretan @ 6.282165
3 Italian_South @ 6.465682
4 Azov_Greek @ 6.664658
5 Greek @ 7.033581
6 Greek_Smyrna @ 7.297125
7 Romanian_Jew @ 7.494883
8 Greek_Islands @ 7.823872
9 Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 8.105562
10 Greek_Macedonia @ 8.362827
11 Greek_Phokaia @ 8.436310
12 Turk_Balikesir @ 9.110703
13 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 9.273499
14 Ashkenazi @ 9.502582
15 Central_Greek @ 9.627254
16 Turk_Istanbul @ 9.918298
17 Sicilian_Center @ 10.063499
18 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 10.273089
19 Sicilian_East @ 10.528270
20 Turk_Aydin @ 11.196284

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azov_Greek +50% Greek_Islands @ 2.726796


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Central_Greek +25% Kakheti +25% Sicilian_Center @ 1.827692


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Georgian_Svan + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo + Sicilian_East @ 1.351761
2 Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo + Sicilian_East @ 1.407711
3 French_Jew + Georgian + Greek_Phokaia + Kosovar @ 1.436058
4 Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.453829
5 Georgian_Megrelia + Greek_Phokaia + Greek_Thessaly + Sicilian_Agrigento @ 1.471201
6 Georgian_Svan + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.484620
7 Adjara + Ashkenazi + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.486632
8 Ashkenazi_Jew + Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.490071
9 Albanian_Tirana + Georgian_Megrelia + Greek_Phokaia + Sicilian_Agrigento @ 1.490325
10 Central_Greek + Georgian_Svan + Sicilian_Siracusa + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.491431
11 Georgian_Svan + Greek_Thessaly + Sicilian_East + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.495800
12 Ashkenazi + Georgian + Greek_Macedonia + Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.497027
13 French_Jew + Georgian_Megrelia + Greek_Phokaia + Kosovar @ 1.502224
14 Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Peloponnesos + Sicilian_Siracusa + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.502608
15 Georgian_Svan + Greek_Peloponnesos + Sicilian_East + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.506242
16 Albanian_Tirana + Georgian + Greek_Phokaia + Sicilian_Agrigento @ 1.511016
17 Christian_Arabs_Israel + Georgian_Svan + Greek_Thessaloniki + Italian_Bergamo @ 1.512183
18 Central_Greek + Georgian + Greek_Phokaia + Sicilian_Trapani @ 1.517037
19 Georgian_Svan + Greek_Peloponnesos + Sicilian_Siracusa + Sicilian_Siracusa @ 1.518330
20 French_Jew + Georgian_Svan + Greek_Phokaia + Kosovar @ 1.518381

Half Thracian/Half Pontic Greek

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.89
2 European_Early_Farmers 17.33
3 South_Central_Asian 11.7
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.41
5 Near_East 11.17
6 Ancestral_Altaic 2.55
7 South_Indian 2.07
8 North_African 1.68
9 Arctic 0.57
10 African_Pygmy 0.31
11 Paleo_Siberian 0.22
12 Archaic_Human 0.1
13 Australoid 0.01

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan @ 6.627731
2 Azov_Greek @ 7.306821
3 Turk_Balikesir @ 7.408904
4 Greek_Smyrna @ 7.450509
5 Turk_Istanbul @ 7.878088
6 Turk_Aydin @ 9.167528
7 Greek @ 9.683551
8 Greek_Athens @ 9.762335
9 Turk @ 10.237257
10 Greek_Islands @ 10.292866
11 Romanian_Jew @ 10.417812
12 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 10.424059
13 Italian_South @ 10.568134
14 Crimean_Tatar_Coast @ 10.634086
15 Greek_Phokaia @ 10.848501
16 Greek_Macedonia @ 10.908206
17 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 10.982609
18 Sicilian_West @ 11.751197
19 Turk_Kayseri @ 11.768731
20 Ashkenazi @ 11.783635

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian_Iraqi +50% Greek_Northwest @ 2.534480


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +25% Greek_Smyrna +25% Kurd_South @ 1.910433


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Central_Greek + Greek_Macedonia + Greek_Smyrna + Kurd_East @ 1.723454
2 Armenian_Yerevan + English_Kent_GBR + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.723552
3 Armenian_Yerevan + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat + Welsh @ 1.771094
4 Armenian + English_Kent_GBR + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.775643
5 Armenian_Yerevan + British + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.776632
6 Armenian_Yerevan + English_Cornwall_GBR + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.786629
7 Gagauz + Greek_Smyrna + Greek_Smyrna + Kurd_South @ 1.786787
8 Armenian + English_Cornwall_GBR + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.799687
9 Central_Greek + Greek + Greek_Smyrna + Kurd_East @ 1.818398
10 Baku_WGA + Greek_Northwest + Greek_Phokaia + Greek_Smyrna @ 1.843865
11 Armenian + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat + Welsh @ 1.845247
12 Armenian_Yerevan + CEU + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.858996
13 Central_Greek + Greek_Macedonia + Greek_Smyrna + Kurd_South @ 1.860728
14 Gagauz + Greek_Smyrna + Greek_Smyrna + Kurd_East @ 1.862592
15 Armenian + British + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.871095
16 Armenian + Iraqi_Chaldean + Italian_Tuscan + Romanian @ 1.880719
17 Armenian_Yerevan + Iraqi_Chaldean + Italian_Tuscan + Romanian @ 1.881294
18 Armenian_Yerevan + Iraqi_Chaldean + Italian_Piedmont + Romanian @ 1.895370
19 Armenian_Yerevan + Assyrian_Iraqi + Belgian + Greek_Islands @ 1.896429
20 Armenian + CEU + Greek_Islands + Jew_Tat @ 1.905709


Thracian Greek Result

Population (source)
Distance


1
Gagauz ( )
4.52


2
Crimean_Tatar_Mountain ( )
5.23


3
Turk_Balikesir ( )
5.69


4
Greek_Macedonia ( )
6.46


5
Greek ( )
7.08


6
Cretan ( )
7.09


7
Greek_Thessaloniki ( )
7.98


8
Romanian_Jew ( )
8.02


9
Central_Greek ( )
8.07


10
Turk_Aydin ( )
8.15


11
Azov_Greek ( )
8.43


12
Greek_Peloponnesos ( )
8.56


13
Greek_Athens ( )
8.59


14
Greek_Phokaia ( )
8.93


15
Turk_Istanbul ( )
8.96


16
Macedonian ( )
9.17


17
Bulgarian ( )
9.21


18
Ashkenazi ( )
9.34


19
Greek_Thessaly ( )
9.58


20Greek_Smyrna ( )
9.94


Muslim Lebanese Result

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.04
2 Near_East 16.12
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.42
4 South_Central_Asian 10.2
5 North_African 6.11
6 European_Hunters_Gatherers 3.88
7 East_African 2.74
8 Austronesian 1.58
9 Paleo_Siberian 0.93
10 South_East_Asian 0.89
11 Archaic_African 0.59
12 Ancestral_Altaic 0.46
13 East_Siberian 0.44
14 Australoid 0.24
15 Melano_Polynesian 0.14
16 Amerindian 0.11
17 Archaic_Human 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian_Jew ( ) 4.35
2 Cretan ( ) 7.4
3 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 7.69
4 Lebanese ( ) 8.05
5 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 9.26
6 Turk_Adana ( ) 10.21
7 Samaritian ( ) 10.39
8 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 10.56
9 Greek_Macedonia ( ) 10.66
10 Turk_Aydin ( ) 10.69
11 Cypriot ( ) 10.76
12 Turk_Jew ( ) 10.78
13 Greek ( ) 11.04
14 Azov_Greek ( ) 11.19
15 Romanian_Jew ( ) 11.21
16 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 11.23
17 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 11.28
18 Turk_Istanbul ( ) 11.4
19 Italian_Jew ( ) 11.54
20 Turk ( ) 11.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.7% Cretan ( ) + 34.3% Syrian ( ) @ 2.78
2 68.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 31.2% Greek_Northwest ( ) @ 2.87
3 77.3% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 22.7% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.91
4 73.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 26.2% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.99
5 79.3% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 20.7% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 3.01
6 52.5% Cretan ( ) + 47.5% Lebanese ( ) @ 3.03
7 53.4% Iraqi_Jew ( ) + 46.6% Maltese ( ) @ 3.08
8 82.8% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 17.2% Italian_Bergamo ( ) @ 3.08
9 71% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 29% Kosovar ( ) @ 3.08
10 67.4% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 32.6% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 3.1
11 55% Turk_Jew ( ) + 45% Georgian_Jew ( ) @ 3.13
12 51.2% Iraqi_Jew ( ) + 48.8% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 3.2
13 70% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 30% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) @ 3.21
14 62.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 37.4% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) @ 3.26
15 54.2% Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) + 45.8% Iraqi_Jew ( ) @ 3.27
16 66.9% Lebanese ( ) + 33.1% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 3.29
17 67.6% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 32.4% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) @ 3.3
18 65.9% Lebanese_Muslim ( ) + 34.1% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) @ 3.3
19 56.5% Greek_Smyrna ( ) + 43.5% Syrian ( ) @ 3.31
20 63.7% Lebanese ( ) + 36.3% Central_Greek ( ) @ 3.33



[brennus dux gallorum]

Ok? The point is that there are Greeks who have significant NE European influence, and then those (mostly the Aegean islands) who are similar to Sicily.

Are you aware that no islander overlaps Italy and that the significant NE you are talking about in Greece as a whole is 5-10% and has nothing to do with slavs? The genetic distance with balkans as it can be seen is significant, and there is no evidence that it is associated with slavs, even if it is partially related

The ancient greeks were not Semitic, and that a title like genetic plot of Sicilians, it shows clearly who is arabised and who plot near Greece would be more accurate? Otherwise how do you explain that mainland overlaps Tuscany? And in that case I repeat, we are talking about insignificant differences, in other graphs most of Sicily plots much more south than the most southern part of Greece

[Danaan]

Pontic Greeks can have ancient Iranic (Persian) admixture and that historically makes sense. There were important historical persons with similar Greco-Persian ancestry. And then there may be influences from their other neighbors like everywhere, including 'mainland' Greece but almost every European and non-European country too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridates_VI_of_Pontus

[Scholarios]

It is well know that Pontus was the center of a hybrid Hellenistic-Iranic civilization that was prolific in population and powerful enough to challenge Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatic_Wars). I don't know why anyone acts shocked that current Greek Pontics may have significant heritage from this era.

[meisje]

It is well know that Pontus was the center of a hybrid Hellenistic-Iranic civilization that was prolific in population and powerful enough to challenge Rome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatic_Wars). I don't know why anyone acts shocked that current Greek Pontics may have significant heritage from this era.

Pan-Hellenes can be shocked,;) Pontics come as Half Kakheti+Half Greek

[brennus dux gallorum]

Pan-Hellenes can be shocked,;) Pontics come as Half Kakheti+Half Greek

Are you high? Pontic Greeks have distinguished traits and their geographical distance was significant from Greece, how could they genetically overlap us?

[meisje]

Are you high? Pontic Greeks have distinguished traits and their geographical distance was significant from Greece, how could they genetically overlap us?

Nobody talks to you, Keep a normal tongue If you write to me, I do not come here for trolling

[brennus dux gallorum]

Nobody talks to you, Keep a normal tongue If you write to me, I do not come here for trolling

Your whole life is a trolling, confirmed by the people that have thumbed down you, anyway, don't worry I have no reason to waste my time with 3Rd world, you are a turk, with anything it includes

[Dianatomia]

I talk about Oracles, not PCA's

Oracle of a Pontic Greek @ 3.33



Yes well, it is autosomal (overal) DNA which I am interested in. I.e. a Cypriot who may be 70% Greek and 30% Near Eastern will never come close to other Greeks, because calculators add up the Near Eastern DNA of Greeks from Greece proper as well as the added Near Easter DNA Cypriots have, and it automatically puts Cypriots far closer to Near Easteners. Autosomal DNA however shows the whole picture. Same is true for any other people.

[Berahthraban]

You can see here that islanders are more or less like southern Italians, while mainlanders are Slavicized or have more NE Euro.

How is having more NE/Indo-European being Slavicized? It's rather the opposite, that those who have less and plot with Southern Italians are "ENFicized".

[Seth MacFarlane]

I would like to see Pontian results

Me too lol

[Danaan]

How is having more NE/Indo-European being Slavicized? It's rather the opposite, that those who have less and plot with Southern Italians are "ENFicized".

Neither is true. But how did that happen supposedly?

[brennus dux gallorum]

How is having more NE/Indo-European being Slavicized? It's rather the opposite, that those who have less and plot with Southern Italians are "ENFicized".

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/207/234/you-must-be-new-here-willy-wonka.jpg

[Berahthraban]

Neither is true. But how did that happen supposedly?

More enf influence? Less whg?

[Danaan]

More enf influence? Less whg?

What events caused that?

those who have less and plot with Southern Italians are "ENFicized"

[Scholarios]

Just looking at this post again, and how unbelievably obtuse the OP is. 'Slavicized Greeks" and " Close to Poland" nonsense. It looks to me, from the plot, mainland Greeks plot between Balkanians and island Greeks/South Italians. They are closer to Armenians or Spanish Jews than they are to Poles, at least according to this. Even I can see this and I truly believe Slavs had a genetic impact in Greece, but this is just stupid.

Razib Khan posts interesting stuff, but his title here about 'Greeks with Slavic Ancestry" shows he's been looking at these kinds of forums too much recently. No wonder he was dropped from Discovery. They wouldn't tolerate this level of anthroceling.

[Sikeliot]

Just looking at this post again, and how unbelievably obtuse the OP is. 'Slavicized Greeks" and " Close to Poland" nonsense. It looks to me, from the plot, mainland Greeks plot between Balkanians and island Greeks/South Italians. They are closer to Armenians or Spanish Jews than they are to Poles, at least according to this. Even I can see this and I truly believe Slavs had a genetic impact in Greece, but this is just stupid..

They are not "close to Poles" but when compared to southern Italians and island Greeks they definitely shift toward them.

[brennus dux gallorum]

They are not "close to Poles" but when compared to southern Italians and island Greeks they definitely shift toward them.

the way Greek islands shift towards Poland compare to sicily and the way each of the islands shift toward poland to a different degree from each other. Geographically I guess that makes sense

[Sikeliot]

the way Greek islands shift towards Poland compare to sicily and the way each of the islands shift toward poland to a different degree from each other. Geographically I guess that makes sense

Maybe we should look at it not as Slavic, but that the Greeks nearest Sicily have the least actual Indo-European input from Dorians and whatnot.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Maybe we should look at it not as Slavic, but that the Greeks nearest Sicily have the least actual Indo-European input from Dorians and whatnot.

yes, that may be more accurate

[Dianatomia]

Maybe we should look at it not as Slavic, but that the Greeks nearest Sicily have the least actual Indo-European input from Dorians and whatnot.

Indeed, whereas some Slavs have been absorbed into the Greek mainframe, like other IE before them, it doesn't mean that it shifted the Greek genetic pool more North. Ancient Greeks with a lot of IE ancestry would score closer to Poles as well. And those with less IE would score closer to Sicilians, like Cretans do. In short, the differences among Greeks were also detectable in ancient times. But to claim that Northern shifted Greeks have Slav ancestry is too simplistic and pre-conclusive.

Whereas once we had to deal with Nordicism and contradict the fact that Ancient Greeks were blonde aryan angels, nowadays I detect some anti-Eurocentrism when it comes to the make up of the Ancient Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Indeed, whereas some Slavs have been absorbed into the Greek mainframe, like other IE before them, it doesn't mean that it shifted the Greek genetic pool more North. Ancient Greeks with a lot of IE ancestry would score closer to Poles as well. And those with less IE would score closer to Sicilians, like Cretans do.

Yes. I think a better way of putting it on my part should be that Greeks share genes with Slavs whether mixed or not with them.