Seljuk-Georgian war the Didgori battle 1121

[Böri]

In 1121 the Georgian kingdom defeated a huge Seljuk Türkish army near Tbilisi and Georgians consider this as greatest event in all their history.Georgian people celebrated every year their victory against Türks for 1000 years and today even they remember with official celebrations. Georgians even make movie about battle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3rjGfm4cEk

Georgians are proud and they are right because Seljuk army was led by famous prestigious Ilghazi Bey. Ilghazi was son of Artuk not from Seljuk family but noble Türkmen family. After Türkic war machine conquered Mideast, Great Seljuk chose Artuk as Jerusalem governor. After Artuk Bey died Ilghazi was Jerusalem governor for a few times. Ilghazi even defeated Frank Crusaders of Antioch in famous Battle of Ager Sanguinis 1119 (this means Field of Blood as Ilghazi destroyed Crusaders army + Armenians even killed their prince Roger of Salerno). Roger was Antioch prince and West Euro nobleman most likely French-Norman origins.
So this is maybe most important event in Georgian peoples history. They are proud of their king Davit.

[Böri]

Georgian armoured vehicle Didgori


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bILN_GoZZN8

[Böri]

Didgoroba is Georgian holiday, that is annually observed on August 12. This holiday commemorates the Battle of Didgori on August 12, 1121.
The Battle of Didgori took place 40 km west of Tbilisi, modern capital of Georgia. The battle was fought between the armies of the Kingdom of Georgia and the Great Seljuk Empire (medieval Turkic empire, the predecessor of the Ottoman Empire. At that time the Great Seljuk Empire was declining and King David IV of Georgia's decisive victory led to reconquest of Tbilisi, then-Muslim held city.

Didgori monument where battle happent
http://i.hizliresim.com/X9NmYj.jpg (http://hizliresim.com/X9NmYj)

Kavkaz guys in Didgori. for Georgians this is worship place like Mecca or Jerusalem
http://i.hizliresim.com/pXklmq.jpg (http://hizliresim.com/pXklmq)

12 August every year for 1000 years tens thousands Georgians unite and celebrate Didgori victory against Türks. This celebration last year or year before
http://i.hizliresim.com/qjpVmQ.jpg (http://hizliresim.com/qjpVmQ)

http://i.hizliresim.com/l3pmLE.jpg (http://hizliresim.com/l3pmLE)

This is good for understand the Kavkaz ethnicity of some people in Türkey cant be equal with ethnicity of Türks. How can it be?

[klarji]

It saved Kartvelian civilization when Albania, Byzantium, Armenia, Iran felt.
Caucasian Albanians and Anatolia Greeks dissapeared after that.

[klarji]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk3oJzDtyA8

[Böri]

Kipchaks saved Georgia. Ilghazi attacked Georgia with 30k Turkish warriors, he had brought his army all way from Aleppo.
He faced the Georgian army of 20k + 40k Kipchak mercenaries. They easily repelled the attack.

Kipchaks were people who would even fight their own father for money, that's the sad part of the story that Turks (Turcomans) were stopped by some other Turkic people in Didgori. Had he succeeded, Turks would go unchallenged until Abkhazia.

I am a little pissed that the career of a man like Ilghazi, who served as master and Governor of Jerusalem, who then became Bey of his state in Mardin, expanding to Aleppo. Wipping out Norman army at famous Ager Sanguinis battle.
He should have won at Didgori. Anyway, life story of Ilghazi is like man of first class, so much experience and ventures.

For what they are and how they act, working for gold, Kipchaks ultimately lost anything they had. They went extinct, were it not for Golden Horde Mongols adopting their language as lingua franca.

No surprise after Queen Tamar, Kipchaks also sold out their Georgian allies for Mongol golds.
Mongols turned Georgia into ashes.

[klarji]

Kipchaks saved Georgia.

Meskhians will be astonished :lol:



Ilghazi attacked Georgia with 30k Turkish warriors, he had brought his army all way from Aleppo.
He faced the Georgian army of 20k + 40k Kipchak mercenaries. They easily repelled the attack.


:lol:

Strength

Great Seljuq Empire:

Artuqids, Eldiguzids, Mazyadids, Shaddadids, Emirate of Tiflis, Shah-Armens.

modern Georgian est.:
100,000-250,000;

other sources:
around 200,000-250,000[2] or app. 300.000.[3]

contemporary chronicles:
400,000-600,000 or 800,000 [

Kingdom of Georgia

Alans, Kipchaks and Frankish mercenaries.

40,000 Georgians
Incl. 5.000 royal knights
15,000 Cumans-Kipchaks
500 Alan Mercenaries
100-500[7] Frankish Knights
Armenian and Shirvanese allies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Didgori

[Böri]

Meskhians will be astonished :lol:




:lol:

Strength

Great Seljuq Empire:

Artuqids, Eldiguzids, Mazyadids, Shaddadids, Emirate of Tiflis, Shah-Armens.

modern Georgian est.:
100,000-250,000;

other sources:
around 200,000-250,000[2] or app. 300.000.[3]

contemporary chronicles:
400,000-600,000 or 800,000 [

Kingdom of Georgia

Alans, Kipchaks and Frankish mercenaries.

40,000 Georgians
Incl. 5.000 royal knights
15,000 Cumans-Kipchaks
500 Alan Mercenaries
100-500[7] Frankish Knights
Armenian and Shirvanese allies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Didgori

Turks fought mighty Byzantine army in 1071 with 40k soldiers, do you think Ilghazi had really 600k or even 100k or even even 50k soldiers?

Ilghazi: 25-30k
Georgia: 60k (of who 40k were Kipchak professionals).

Turkish version of Kings and Generals covered the battle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjU32u74uqs

Don't tell Turks under comments section that Ilghazi had 600k or 100k soldiers.
They aren't that kind.
Some Georgians did and they didn't receive kind answers.
https://preview.ibb.co/enL43p/didgori.png

[klarji]

Mongols turned Georgia into ashes.

Dont tell here fairy-tales in panTurkist style. :picard1:
in the first battle with Mongols the Georgian King died and his weak sister Rusuan succeed him who of course could not fight the great Mongolian warlord. The first thing she did was that she run to the Western Georgia where Mongold could not pass in.


that's the sad part of the story that Turks (Turcomans) were stopped by some other Turkic people in Didgori.

I think on contrary that its a very beautifully story when the ancient Kartvelian civilization defeated wild nomad agressors and saved their wonderful country and culture.
Sad was when Byzantium fell.


Kipchaks were people who would even fight their own father for money


Kipchaks were fled by Slavic Russians when the Great King David built a great Kingdom. But he needed more soldiers. For that reasong that Georgia was a typical European feudal Kingdom where every lord controlled his own vassals and the King could not use the vassals of his own vassals he decided to use and increase the number of this own vassals by fled Kipchaks who needed a shelter.
Their ressetling David began in 1118-1119.

Georgian Kingdom was at that time already a strong and great Kingdom that was preparing for its last blow at Seljuks.
In 1121 when the Didgori battle set up the King did not trust them. They even did not take part in the battle standing in the back.
The only one who helped real Georgians were Europeans (Crusaders) who opened the second front to Turks.

[klarji]

Turks fought mighty Byzantine army in 1071 with 40k soldiers, do you think Ilghazi had really 600k or even 100k or even even 50k soldiers?

Ilghazi: 25-30k
Georgia: 60k (of who 40k were Kipchak professionals).

Turkish version of Kings and Generals covered the battle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjU32u74uqs

Don't tell Turks under comments section that Ilghazi had 600k or 100k soldiers.
They aren't that kind.
Some Georgians did and they didn't receive kind answers.



Ok
Dont complex
Caucasian Mtebid will defeat a lot of Turkoid.
Mtebids are very strong and fiery
its normal

[Böri]

The Kipchaks back then were serving other people for money. They also fought for Nevsky's Novgorod Russia and helped Rus to repel the German Livonian crusader strike at battle on Ice. Same story with Georgia. Were it not for Kipchaks, Georgia would stop to exist.
Georgians weren't warrior, they were agriculturalist farmers working and paying tax to Georgian king, who in turn, with that gold, was buying mercenaries.

What Kipchaks did isn't forgivable by our standards. Anyway, it's well known that Georgians trusted them but Kipchaks later sided with Mongols against Georgians too... Which is funny happening.

[klarji]

The Kipchaks back then were serving other people for money. They also fought for Nevsky's Novgorod Russia and helped Rus to repel the German Livonian crusader strike at battle on Ice. Same story with Georgia. Were it not for Kipchaks, Georgia would stop to exist.
Georgians weren't warrior, they were agriculturalist farmers working and paying tax to Georgian king, who in turn, with that gold, was buying mercenaries.


If Kartvelians were not warriors then Turks were only sausage clowns. :lol:

If Karvtelians were much developed and had high developed agricultural civilization with its culture it does not mean they were not warriors

To be warrior does not mean to be wild nomad :lol:

[klarji]

The Kipchaks back then were serving other people for money. They also fought for Nevsky's Novgorod Russia and helped Rus to repel the German Livonian crusader strike at battle on Ice. Same story with Georgia. Were it not for Kipchaks, Georgia would stop to exist.
Georgians weren't warrior, they were agriculturalist farmers working and paying tax to Georgian king, who in turn, with that gold, was buying mercenaries.

What Kipchaks did isn't forgivable by our standards. Anyway, it's well known that Georgians trusted them but Kipchaks later sided with Mongols against Georgians too... Which is funny happening.

Turkic nazis always have a huge bouquet of coplmexes towards Indo-Europeans, Mongolians and even small local Caucasian civilizations. :lol:

Dont make here people laugh

Kill that complex in you.

[Böri]

Ilghazi and his 25-30k Turkish army were all Turks. No mercenaries. No foreigners.
Why Georgian army was only 20k Georgian and the other 35-40k were Kipchaks who were selling themselves for gold?

Kartvelians weren't fighters, nor king Davit considered his own people as warriors.
Georgians were agriculturalist peasants meant to work, live in a religious environment where priests made them worship Jesus-icons ,and they were paying tax to King Davit. Good deal, Georgia was on Silk Road, so trade of those products was bringing wealth to Georgia.

Long story short, this is a Georgian victory, but not that of random Kartvelian agriculturalist peasants who were living in their villages. Victory of the Georgian elite's good politics.

[klarji]

______________________________

[klarji]

Lets not listen to Turkic nazi who is very ashamed and complexed because of Didgori battle

Lets listen to the reality

How we know folklore and culture is the soul of every nation

Lets see

Typical folk song of Kartvelians who according to the Turkish nazi were not warriors


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75xVtDFDCMU

Typical folk song of Turkics who according to the Turkish friend were great warriors


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho0KNlaZlWc

[Böri]

Question still not answered:
Why Ilghazi army was all Turkish but Georgian army was only 40% ethnic Georgians and rest being foreign mercenaries?

Georgians back then weren't precisely Caucasians like modern Chechens or Nurmagomedov or so obviously.

[klarji]

After we have seen such beautiful videos that wonderfully demonstrate who is warrior
Our complexed by Didgori battle Turkish friend set the question that was answered thousand years ago in 1121


Lets see the answer

Strength

Great Seljuq Empire:

Artuqids, Eldiguzids, Mazyadids, Shaddadids, Emirate of Tiflis, Shah-Armens.

modern Georgian est.:
100,000-250,000;

other sources:
around 200,000-250,000[2] or app. 300.000.[3]

contemporary chronicles:
400,000-600,000 or 800,000 [

Kingdom of Georgia

Alans, Kipchaks and Frankish mercenaries.

40,000 Georgians
Incl. 5.000 royal knights
15,000 Cumans-Kipchaks
500 Alan Mercenaries
100-500[7] Frankish Knights
Armenian and Shirvanese allies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Didgori

[klarji]

Georgians back then weren't precisely Caucasians like modern Chechens or Nurmagomedov or so obviously.

I have heard that Chechens are Mtebids too but anyway we Georgians and Svans are really Mtebids.

And I dont know why but I think that these beautiful Kartvelian Mtebid people will smash with one finger 80638

these beautiful Oghuz Tukic Turkoids

80639

Whats about our weaker Kartvelin brothers from our Zan banch and Georgians mixed with them who are Pontids so I have only one question - are not you going to modern and timely Turkish town Atina and tell local Lazes that they were not warriors but you Turkoids were?

Lets make such empirical experiment.
Before that I will make for myself popcorn and will waiting for you face smashing

[Böri]

Still pretending Ilghazi had 150k to 600k soldiers?

Why do you Orthodoxes like to believe in mythology?


https://preview.ibb.co/b50eKU/xtia.png


Georgia won because God in Flesh, who failed to save his own skin from some Jews and Romans despite being God, Third of the Three inside the Three in One, having 2 natures in merged One, granted victory to 5k Georgians against 5 million Turks.

Happy now? We admit?

[klarji]

Happy now? We admit?

Very happy
Dont see in the theme hysterical Persians - f.cking Greeks how 1k Greeks could defeat 1 million Persians?
Gaugamela was won by Greeks because God in Flesh, who failed to save his own skin from some Jews and Romans despite being God, Third of the Three inside the Three in One, having 2 natures in merged One, granted victory ... Greeks were never warriors but we Persians were
Allahu Akbar
Akbar Allah

[klarji]

okey
lets continue our theme
Georgians celebrate "Aragveloba" - the celebration dedicated to the 300 Aragvelians dead in the Krtsanisi battle



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbEr1MkWvpQ

:rolleyes:

[Frowning Man]

Kipchaks saved Georgia. Ilghazi attacked Georgia with 30k Turkish warriors, he had brought his army all way from Aleppo.
He faced the Georgian army of 20k + 40k Kipchak mercenaries. They easily repelled the attack.

Kipchaks were people who would even fight their own father for money, that's the sad part of the story that Turks (Turcomans) were stopped by some other Turkic people in Didgori. Had he succeeded, Turks would go unchallenged until Abkhazia.

I am a little pissed that the career of a man like Ilghazi, who served as master and Governor of Jerusalem, who then became Bey of his state in Mardin, expanding to Aleppo. Wipping out Norman army at famous Ager Sanguinis battle.
He should have won at Didgori. Anyway, life story of Ilghazi is like man of first class, so much experience and ventures.

For what they are and how they act, working for gold, Kipchaks ultimately lost anything they had. They went extinct, were it not for Golden Horde Mongols adopting their language as lingua franca.

No surprise after Queen Tamar, Kipchaks also sold out their Georgian allies for Mongol golds.
Mongols turned Georgia into ashes.


Guy don't be offended, but learn history.
The Kypchaks did not save Georgia. Another fairy tale invented not so long ago.

1- There could not have been 40,000 Kypchaks in Georgia. There could have been no way.
It is known that before the alliance of Georgians and Polovtsy (1118), the alliance of Slavic principalities under the leadership of Monomakh gathered very large troops and made a campaign in the Kypchak steppe and defeated the Polovtsians there, taking advantage of the unexpected effect.
And the Kypchaks were so much weakened that they were forced to pump out longer from the borders of Kievan Rus to the southeast, closer to the northern Caucasus.
It is because of this that there could not be 40 thousand of them. Is 40 thousand for you a weakened Kypchak horde?) Do not talk nonsense.
There were a maximum of 5 thousand of them in Georgia, probably they made up a personal detachment of David 4 together with Monasp.

2- The Kypchaks did not play any key role in the war with the Seljuks for David 4.
Even before the alliance with the Polovtsy (1118), David 4 (David became king in 1089) fought a successful war with the Seljuks for almost 30 years.
David 4 carried out good military reforms (strengthened the army), centralized power, pacified the feudal lords. This was all before the alliance with the Polovtsy. He already had a strong army crushing the Seljuks. And before the alliance with the Polovtsy, he annexed almost all of eastern Georgia.
The union was when there was only Tbilisi left to take.

The first major battle took place in 1104 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy) in Ertsukhi, this is the territory of the present Saingilo, earlier this territory was Georgia, called Hereti.

And just about this battle with many opponents they write that it is "Fanned with glory, that great victory .."

The war was with the Sultan and Atabek of Gandza.

At the same time, Tbilisi and the surrounding lands were ruled by unfaithful Turks.

After this battle, Kakheti and Hereti - the Eastern part of Georgia, was already firmly annexed to Georgia, before that the local Georgian king ruled there.

In 1110 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy), he was already actively beginning the liberation of the southern part of Georgia, and it was he who liberated the city of Samshvilde and the nearest fortresses from the Turks, in the same year the Georgian king had already captured Gandza.


In the same year, according to the chroniclers, the enemy gathered in response 100,000 thousand (I do not believe in numbers, but I am sure there were more Seljuks) and sent them to Georgia, the battle took place in Trialeti.

David, not collecting all his army, immediately moved on them with a small, but elite army and to smithereens defeated a huge army, unexpectedly attacking, which the Turks did not expect and turned to ravage once again.

After the liberation of the city of Rustavi.


In 1116 (before the alliance with the Polovtsians), another battle took place in Tao.

But he paid dearly, thinking that there we reduced our vigilance. Since all this was in winter and they did not think that from the center of Georgia, across the snow-covered pass, the Georgian king would suddenly come from somewhere, and he came and defeated them.

in 1117 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy), the Georgians took the Eretian cut of Gishi, then the large fortress of Lore, the fortress of Agarani (1118).

One of the most important Georgian fortresses was the Lore fortress and we took it.

In 1117 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy), the Georgians attacked Shirvan and captured a lot of booty, and his son Demeter was already in charge of the campaign, this was his first campaign of this scale.

And only after so many battles David 4 within two years began the resettlement of the Kipchaks in 1118-1119, when most of Georgia was liberated, except for Tbilisi and Dmanisi, although they were already in fact in the ring.

He needed hired troops mainly so as not to reduce the number of his soldiers, since it was necessary that someone should work and also so as not to depend anymore on the local feudal lords who opposed the centralization of the country, to pacify them, he led an army of Kipaks, and also to continue the liberation of neighboring territories, in order to secure Georgia.

3-In the Didgori battle, the main shock and key role was played by the Georgian troops, not the Kipchaks. And the Georgians made up the majority in that army. Not a single source and not a single author of that time wrote that there were more Kypchaks and they were the main striking force.

The Georgian troops were mainly heavy cavalry and heavy infantry. And they were strong in close combat. Before the alliance with the Polovtsy, David 4 defeated the Seljuks, because he did not fight the Seljuks in the open, where they would have room for maneuver. He lured the Seljuks into a narrow space, where they were forced to go into close combat. In close combat, they were weaker than the Georgian army.

As I already wrote, the Kypchaks were not the main striking force of David. They were nomads and their troops are light cavalry that loved constant shelling, dodging clashes (close combat) and again endless shelling and shelling again. Even Kievan Rus believed that the Polovtsians were strong due to their mobility and constant shelling, but in close combat they were not so strong and the Kypchaks did not know how to storm the fortresses.

Therefore, the Kypchaks would be absolutely useless in the Didgor battle. Didgori is a gorge where there is no normal space for maneuver and retreat, the Kypchak interrogator would not be able to fight with his favorite style of eternal retreats and tactics of avoiding close combat. There is no space for this in Didgori gorge. Whether you want it or not, you would have to go into hand-to-hand combat. In close combat, it was the Georgian army that was stronger than the Kypchak and Seljuk ones.

4-I do not believe in numbers. In my opinion, the Seljuks in that battle were somewhere between 45-50 thousand. These are already huge forces for that time. Georgian sources do not write the number of Seljuks, but write that the Seljuks were like sand in the desert. That said, the Seljuks were much more.

Georgians 13-15 thousand
Our allied Kipchaks are 3-5 thousand.

[Frowning Man]

Whats about our weaker Kartvelin brothers from our Zan banch and Georgians mixed with them who are Pontids so I have only one question - are not you going to modern and timely Turkish town Atina and tell local Lazes that they were not warriors but you Turkoids were?

Lets make such empirical experiment.
Before that I will make for myself popcorn and will waiting for you face smashing


Since when did the Zan tribes become weaker than other Georgians? The territories of the Zan tribes were less often captured by enemies than the territories of other Georgians. It was the Zan tribes that many times were the backbone of the army about the liberation of eastern Georgia or the settlement of the deserted regions of Georgia. It was the territories of Western Georgia that the Turks, Iranians and Arabs found it more difficult to occupy, and Western Georgia has been inhabited since ancient times by the Zan tribes.

The Zans are not pure pontids. The same Mingrelians are basically a mixture of pontida and mtebida. This is the most dominant type in Megrelia. Then, in frequency, pontids and mtebids.
It was the Mingrelian farmers, according to the conclusions of the anthropologist Pantyukhov, who had one of the largest skeletons (a large and massive skeleton) in the Caucasus region.