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The Ripper
10-22-2010, 06:19 AM
Texas professor sticks to view that Sibelius had Nazi sympathies

Timothy L. Jackson, Professor of Music Theory at the University of North Texas, is sticking to his views that Finnish composer Jean Sibelius had Nazi sympathies.

Jackson is convinced that when the Nazis took power in Germany, Sibelius made a 180-degree turn in his attitudes toward Germany’s Jewish artists and was careful not to show them any support, for fear of losing royalty payments.

Jackson’s ideas sparked intense discussion when he expressed his views at the Sibelius Academy and at the Institute of Political history of the University of Helsinki.

As Jackson sees it, the Finnish Civil War is still going on in Finland, with the country split into the left wing and the conservatives. “The left accepts my views, but the conservatives do not want to hear anything bad about Sibelius.”

He emphasises that admiration for the composer, or the lack of it, should not influence our views of what the composer was like as a person.

Jackson feels that Finns seem to have a need to gloss over the image of Sibelius.

However, when discussing Sibelius with Finnish music professionals and friends of Sibelius, his human weaknesses tend to come out more than any ethical strengths.

Jackson focuses on one piece of evidence, which is sufficient for him.

Sibelius had promised to write a recommendation for a half-Jewish German composer Günther Raphael, but when Raphael lost his professorship in 1934, he asked Sibelius for a letter of recommendation, which Sibelius never answered.

Jackson did not come up with the Raphael case on his own. Instead, he found it in a book on Raphael by German author Thomas Schinköth titled Das Ende aller Illusionen (“The End of All Illusions”).

Schinköth and Jackson agree that a small piece of paper speaking in favour of Raphael would have helped him save his job and his livelihood in spite of the laws concerning the Jews that were passed by the Nazis.

But would a recommendation by Sibelius have had such a strong impact in Nazi Germany?

“Sibelius was such an appreciated composer in Germany that he certainly could have helped Raphael”, Jackson says.

Historians who heard Jackson’s arguments dismissed them as having been backed up by inadequate evidence, which does not stand up under critical examination.

The historians explained to Jackson that when Finland fought against the Soviet Union, it needed war materiel from Germany to keep its independence, and that the relationship that Sibelius had with Germany should be seen against this background.

Jackson says that the United States would have guaranteed Finland’s independence if Finland had not joined with Germany to fight the Soviet Union. Finland’s co-belligerence with Nazi Germany clearly upsets Jackson, who is a Jew himself.

“My father, a professor of architecture, has said that Jews and Finns should not write books about Sibelius”, says Jackson, who does not lack a sense of humour.

One matter on which it is easy to agree with Jackson is that the perspective on Sibelius on the other side of the Atlantic is much different from that in Finland.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Texas+professor+sticks+to+view+that+Sibelius+had++ Nazi+sympathies+/1135261068094

Arrogant, ignorant Yankee Jew. Of course he must have the privilige to spew any kind of shit over whomever he pleases, if there is the slightest inkling that this person might not have been a champion of Jews.

I wonder, how many Jewish communists took stance against Finland during WW II? Should Finns now take a similar to approach to those people? Every Jewish socialist should be held accountable for Stalin's crimes? Even that would be more generous than Jackson's treatment of Finland and Sibelius, we might just as well include every Jew that was pro-Soviet when it came to choosing between Germany and USSR. And his historical analysis is hilarious. Because the ethno-masochist left accepts his Nazi-accusations, a tactic well-known to them, and conservatives (and historians) reject them, there is obviously a civil war still going on in Finland. And saying that the United States would have guaranteed Finnish independence had we not aligned ourselves with Germany, what is this guy high on? How on earth does he suppose the US would have guaranteed that independence? :coffee:

Debaser11
10-22-2010, 07:12 AM
I have Nazi sympathies. There's a false premise there that it's wrong to have Nazi sympathies.

And screw most of the UT faculty. It's full of liberal pussies and limp wrists. My brothers go there and were just talking about how the campus was bragging about how "diverse" it was so you have an idea of what infestation lurks within that institution.

Groenewolf
10-22-2010, 11:58 AM
The claims are even being made on very shaky grounds. Namely one unanswered letter. Not that we should really care, if he was what he claims it to be. And the rest of this article also seems a bit shaky to say at the least.

The Ripper
10-22-2010, 12:06 PM
The claims are even being made on very shaky grounds. Namely one unanswered letter. Not that we should really care, if he was what he claims it to be. And the rest of this article also seems a bit shaky to say at the least.

He's been leading an active campaign around the subject for years now. The problem is, that to people unaware of the circumstances of Sibelius and Finland during that period (=99,9% of people), his arguments might seem plausible. And if they seem plausible to some international academic clique, they sure as hell will become plausible to Finnish anti-national forces, which currently occupy the media and much of academia. Fortunately, Finland has a strong tradition of independent historical consciousness and identity, which will not be displaced overnight.

He is in many way similar to a certain Swedish journalist, Henrik Arnstad (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Arnstad), who started writing sensationalist BS about Finland not having "dealt with" its nazi past or some shit. He was digging up stuff that was very well known in within the historical community, and because of his poor understanding of the context (and I assume, because of his sensationalist, tabloidish bent) he managed to present it as some kind of hidden dark secret. It was good to see a strong backlash against his sensationalist claims from the Finnish historical community, though, who dismissed his interpretations outright. This of course, according to Arnstad, simply displayed the denial of Finnish society, its inability to "come to terms" with their past.

Eldritch
10-22-2010, 01:15 PM
As usual, all the letters of endorsement to non-Jews that Sibelius either wrote, or did not write, are completely unimportant.

The Ripper
10-22-2010, 01:27 PM
As usual, all the letters of endorsement to non-Jews that Sibelius either wrote, or did not write, are completely unimportant.

Of course. Just like those 8 "extradited" Jews are the more important than 50 000 Ingrians returned to the Soviet Union. :coffee:

Debaser11
10-22-2010, 06:39 PM
Ooops. I didn't see the "North" there in the school name. Wrong uni. My bad. I don't like what this guy is trying to do, but what's the big deal about having Nazi sympathies or even liking the Nazis? Had I been living in Western Europe at the time, I certainly would have picked up a gun and fought with them.

Motörhead Remember Me
10-25-2010, 07:21 AM
The truth is that Sibelius organized concerts for Günther Raphael in Finland, but when Raphael asked for a position in Finland Sibelius simply answered with what was true; the circles were too small for him to take up the position that he was suggesting.
What Jackson misses completely is that Sibelius was a patriot and with Sovietunion as a threat Sibelius saw, just like many other Finns did, a strong Germany as the only realistic alternative (albeit bad)which could help fend the Soviets off Finland. Therefore it was natural for Sibelius to work for Finnish German relations, which he did.

I agree 100% with Riippumatto. Jackson brings to mind Arnstad ( a self declared Stalinist!). Both of them make hens out of feathers and none of them have access to Finnish material since they do not speak a word Finnish.
What is worse, Arnstad uses Soviet sources for many of his claims...

Motörhead Remember Me
10-25-2010, 07:28 AM
Jackson says that the United States would have guaranteed Finland’s independence if Finland had not joined with Germany to fight the Soviet Union. This clearly was not going to happen!! The United States had only words to offer while Germany offered weapons, material, a plan and what was more important, food.

Finland’s co-belligerence with Nazi Germany clearly upsets Jackson, who is a Jew himself. So FUCK him.

The Ripper
11-23-2010, 02:05 PM
Sibeliuksen jäämistöistäkään ei ole kuulemma löytynyt mitään natseihin liittyvää: ei ”Heil Hitler” -huutoja tai muutakaan natsiyhteyksistä tai -sympatioista kertovaa. Näin on ajateltu, näin on uskottu.

Mutta mitenkäs nyt sitten suut pannaan, kun sellaisia lähteitä onkin löytynyt? Amerikkalaisprofessori Timothy L. Jackson on kirjoittanut kaksi laajaa artikkelia ”Sibelius the Political” ja ”Sibelius and the SS”, joissa luodaan arkistolöytöihin perustuen synkeä kuva halukkaasti natsien propagandavälineeksi alistuvasta Jean Sibeliuksesta. Saksan natsihenkisille kapellimestareille Sibeliukselta heltisi vuosina 1933 – 1945 kosolti sympatioita ja suosituskirjeitä, juutalaissyntyisiltä avunpyytäjiltä hän epäsi kaiken tukensa.


-Antti Vihinen


Antti Vihinen on oppiarvoltaan tohtori ja työskenteli Lahden Sibeliustalon toimitusjohtajana 1999–2010 ja hän on professorin virassa Saksassa Karlsruhen kansainvälisessä ammattikorkeakoulussa Karlshochschulessa.

http://anttivihinen.puheenvuoro.uusisuomi.fi/52687-sibeliuksen-natsiyhteydet-puhuttavat-jalleen

:coffee:

Motörhead Remember Me
11-26-2010, 05:50 AM
Jaa. Sibbekö huuteli "Heil Hitler" Ainolassa?

Eldritch
11-26-2010, 08:26 AM
Pravdassa oli taannoin vastoin kaikkia odotuksia kohtalaisen asiallinen kolumni (http://www.hs.fi/nyt/artikkeli/Natsi-Janne/1135261229728) aiheesta:


Taas on käsillä se huisin jännä aika vuodesta, kun tomutellaan historian lehvistöjä ja katsotaan, mistä putoaa kansallissosialisti.

Kuten useimmat tietänevät, on syysmalliston ykkösnimi sama kuin viimekin vuonna: oma rakas Järvenpään Jannemme eli Jean Sibelius.

Professori Timothy L. Jacksonin ristiretki kansallissäveltäjän natsifioimiseksi on nimittäin jatkunut jo vuoden verran. Todisteita hänellä on yksi.

Sibbe oli kuulemma luvannut suositella puolijuutalaista säveltäjä Günther Raphaelia, mutta ei ollutkaan pitänyt lupaustaan.

Vaikka professorin olemattomat todisteet ja historiantuntemus saivatkin Helsingissä tutkijoilta hudaa, on keskustelu levinnyt maailmalle ja sibeliaaneja korpeaa.

Fortis in Arduis
11-26-2010, 08:27 AM
Jackson is not even worthy of being my scat victim.