R1b found in Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherers in Latvia

[Peterski]

Fresh news from Anthrogenica, Mesolithic sample of R1b haplogroup in Latvia:


Guys, more fun, more fun -
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php...h-Early-Europea (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9662-The-Neolithic-Transition-in-the-Baltic-Was-Not-Driven-by-Admixture-with-Early-Europea)
Mesolithic R1b in Latvia, Zvejnieki burial :)

Link: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fullte...9822(16)31542-1 (http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1)

Highlights:

• A degree of genetic continuity from the Mesolithic to the Neolithic in the Baltic
• Steppe-related genetic influences found in the Baltic during the Neolithic
• No Anatolian farmer-related genetic admixture in Neolithic Baltic samples
• Steppe ancestry in Latvia at the time of the emergence of Balto-Slavic language

[Peterski]

Amazing, two samples out of three in Mesolithic Latvia were R1b1b:


Further, the Y chromosomes of two of our Latvian Mesolithic samples were assigned to haplogroup R1b (the maximum-likelihood sub-haplogroup is R1b1b), which is the most common haplogroup found in modern Western Europeans [36].

[Peterski]

Latvian Mesolithic hunters with R1b were White (unlike Mesolithic hunters in Western Europe):

"tentative evidence for progressive skin depigmentation in Mesolithic Latvia based on mutations in the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 genes (rs1426654 and rs16891982, respectively"

[Ülev]

go back to Latvia R1b, shoo


lol

[Rethel]

Nothing surprizal for me.
It was obviously suspected.

[Rethel]

Amazing, two samples out of four in Mesolithic Latvia were R1b1b:

What was another 2?

[Peterski]

Nothing surprizal for me.
It was obviously suspected.

R1a in Karelia and Russia, R1b in Latvia and Russia.

Baltic Sea to Russia = Proto-Indo-European homeland.

Check also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baltic_Origins_of_Homer's_Epic_Tales

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Home_in_the_Vedas

[Ülev]

on the other hand - R1b was master race - they bring the knowledge to India, they were from the north! and they still leads on science fields

[Peterski]

R1b was master race - they bring the knowledge to India

There is no R1b in India.

[Rethel]

R1a in Karelia and Russia, R1b in Latvia and Russia.

Baltic Sea to Russia = Proto-Indo-European homeland.

Yes, it is obvious, because IE=R1, always. It is my 10+ years old prediction,
and is always becaming truth. Btw, the high amounts of R1b you can find in
far north - and they certainly did not came with Russians or Vikings. And the
same on Ural, and everywhere in Asia, where they have to came as IEs.

Only about R2 I am not certain, but they probably are IE too.



Check also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baltic_Origins_of_Homer's_Epic_Tales

I heard about it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Home_in_the_Vedas

About it too - szukaj etrusków spod archangielska :laugh:

[Ülev]

There is no R1b in India.

yep, why should they be there? they did (made) sons and daughters (unwanted) --> and R1a was created















(jk)

[Rethel]

There is no R1b in India.

Yes, there is. 0,5%. In some areas and castas even higher.

[Ülev]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/indoeuropean.png

[Rethel]

"tentative evidence for progressive skin depigmentation in Mesolithic Latvia based on mutations in the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 genes (rs1426654 and rs16891982, respectively"

There was no depigmentation process, but IEs were white,
and whereever they arrived, whitness emarged. You can call
it of course depigmentation process, but that term obviously
does not mean that. At it also doesn;t mean, that they didn't
mix with swarthy people, they did, but it had to be a marginal
happenings becasue whitness survived, and R1/IE people did
have to be a source of it, becasue this is what is showing by
historical records, and lastly by genetics also.

[Lucas]

It's time to face the truth. Western Europe was black and it will black again. Eastern Euro was white and it will be still white too:)

[Hevo]

Let's discard out of west Asia theory crap for R1b now shall we? :)

[Peterski]

Latvian Mesolithic hunters with R1b were White (unlike Mesolithic hunters in Western Europe):

"tentative evidence for progressive skin depigmentation in Mesolithic Latvia based on mutations in the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 genes (rs1426654 and rs16891982, respectively"

And they were also blue-eyed.

[Peterski]

It's time to face the truth. Western Europe was black and it will black again. Eastern Euro was white and it will be still white too:)

:rotfl: :lmao

[Rethel]

Let's flush down the out of west Asia theory crap for R1b shall we? :)

It really doesn;t matter where IEs came from, becasue in
original prototribe state they could wandering everywhere
between France and Manchuria and Lappland and Gedrosia.
They really did not grow from the earth, so, geographical
location is meaningless. Btw, whatever theory was not on
the top, people always were envy about it. So what's the
difference if IEs are always R1 and probably always white,
if they lived originaly in Tasmania or in Patagonia? For me
none. Land as land. It is changeable, the tR1be/folk is the
important factor which can exists whereever, even on Mars.

Personaly, I like takla-makan theory :)

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

Interesting..

[Ülev]

It really doesn;t matter where IEs came from, becasue in
original prototribe state they could wandering everywhere
between France and Manchuria and Lappland and Gedrosia.
They really did not grow from the earth, so, geographical
location is meaningless. Btw, whatever theory was not on
the top, people always were envy about it. So what's the
difference if IEs are always R1 and probably always white,
if they lived originaly in Tasmania or in Patagonia? For me
none. Land as land. It is changeable, the tR1be/folk is the
important factor which can exists whereever, even on Mars.

Personaly, I like takla-makan theory :)

Mongol pride worldwide!

Like Genghis Khan - red-skinned, unable to tan.
Chinese and others with ON y-dna haplo are Sinoids, not Mongols, lol

[Rethel]

Yes, there is. 0,5%. In some areas and castas even higher.

Among hindu Indoeuropeans even 1.5%
Whole India - 0.5%
Dravidians - 0.3%
Northern India - 0.6%
Southern India - 1.3%
Tribes - 1.0%
Upper Castas - 0.5%
Pakistan - 7.4%

Some of these seems to contradict each other in
some way - but the thing is: R1b exists in India. :)

Even some R1b1a2 - so it is so called steppic subclade.



Mongol pride worldwide!

Mummies are white.

[Peterski]

So Proto-Turks originated in Mesolithic Latvia! xD

[cosmoo]

Everyone was predicting some clade of I2, like in western hunter-gatherers, and I doubted it for a long time...
The thing is, those men were most likely proto-IE, and definitely not original inhabitants of area (who most likely were some clade of I-M170). Archaeologists determined that bearers of Narva culture came from Samara in Russia, and we already have R1b1* from Sok River in Samara from that same time period, so it's not surprise at all.

Around Lake Baikal in Siberia the favoured form of pot combined the pointed-base shape with an everted rim. The pots were mainly built up from clay coils, pinched together, and often left undecorated. This type of pottery reached the Samara region in the middle Volga River valley by 7000 BC... It was the first pottery in Europe. From there pottery of the same type had spread to the Baltic and Scandinavia by about 5500 BC, before any sign of contact with farming.

[Peterski]

Latvian guys with R1b are not autosomally WHG. They are EHG-WHG mixture:


In keeping with their geographical origins,they are in an intermediate position between Western European hunter-gatherer samples (WHG; from Luxembourg, Hungary,Italy, France, and Switzerland) and Eastern European hunter-gatherer samples (EHG; from Russia).

[Rethel]

So Proto-Turks originated in Mesolithic Latvia! xD

1/3 of Turkic people are IE (mostly scythians and other Iranians)
First khaganate was made by iranic named people, sogdian language
and writing system was at the begining an important factor in developing
turkish culture, and even the very name Turk is probably of IE provenance.
The Ottomans per se were IEs too, cultivating persian language and culture.
And according to legend, forfather of Turan was a brother or Iran and Sarmat.

[Peterski]

Everyone was predicting some clade of I2, like in western hunter-gatherers

I2 guys are from Lithuania, and are pure WHG.

R1b guys are from Latvia, and are EHG-WHG mix.

These are different samples.

[Rethel]

Everyone was predicting some clade of I2, like in western hunter-gatherers, and I doubted it for a long time...

This area must be a cross territory, and there have to be some I,
becasue many toponims are non IE and non Uralic, and hg I exists
as far as Ural on the north, so it has to have some source, and it
probably is some people who lived there. Don;t forget also, that
through that area were crossing also some amerindian tribe, who
did admixed to Karelian-Boy, and finally settled in Norrland and
Västergötaland. So this shouldn't be mono-hg-territory, but the
fact that they lived side by side, does not mean, that they are
one and the same tribe, becasue they are and were not.

[Rethel]

I2 guys are from Lithuania, and are pure WHG.

R1b guys are from Latvia, and are EHG-WHG mix.


O! And this difference is very important and interesting.
It means, that R1 were whites, and every R1 not white
had to be a mix, as Karelian, Villasomething and Maltian,
with other neighbouring women, and that "I" was always
browny, the same on the east as on the west.

[cosmoo]

I2 guys are from Lithuania, and are pure WHG.

R1b guys are from Latvia, and are EHG-WHG mix.

These are different samples.

I know, I just thought it was obvious that many from Narva won't turn out as I2 since it was archaeologically proven that new population element appeared in later Mesolithic.

[Rethel]

I know, I just thought it was obvious that many from Narva won't turn out as I2 since it was archaeologically proven that new population element appeared in later Mesolithic.

And the agriculture came to them from the south/eastern south.


I2 guys are from Lithuania, and are pure WHG.

Something like that or darker? :scratch:

http://gdb.rferl.org/039CCB61-2BA6-4C82-BF08-F5CAE58AF2EA_mw800_mh600.jpg

[Peterski]

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fullte...9822(16)31542-1 (http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1)


The two earliest samples in our Baltic time series, Latvia_HG1 (8,417–8,199 cal BP), associated with the Kunda culture, and Latvia_HG2 (7,791–7,586 cal BP), associated with the Narva culture, derive from the Late Mesolithic period [17, 21].

A third sample, Latvia_HG3 (7,252–6,802 cal BP), dates to the Late Mesolithic/Early Neolithic period, with the burial showing no major departures from the preceding Mesolithic traditions [21].

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2082666...883532/mmc1.pdf (http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2082666371/2072883532/mmc1.pdf)

First R1b:


Latvia_HG2: Burial 93. Adult male. Buried in extended supine position with head facing southwest. Grave
goods included 23 teeth pendants, one beaver bone and three bird bones. Ochre layer surrounded the skeleton.
14C date: Hela-1212, 6840 ±55 BP (7,791-7,586 cal BP).

Second R1b:


Latvia_HG3: Burial 121. Adult. Described as female based on morphology but genetically determined to be
male. Buried in extended supine position with head facing south. Animal teeth pendants were scattered around
the burial as well as on the breast, shoulders and along the legs. Grave goods included a perforated animal
phalange, two bird bones, a stone object (possibly representing an animal) and a flint chip.
14C date: Ua-19883, 6145 ±80 BP (7,252-6,802 cal BP).

[Rethel]

And Maciamo will have to closed his site.
Third time of changeing the colour of the
culture on the map he can not beared :laugh:

[Peterski]

What was another 2?

Women.

[Rethel]

Women.

So 2/2. 100% :)

[Grab the Gauge]

Sorry niggers, but R still came to Europe from East Asia, and they already studied the dentition to prove it. R1b in Zvejnieki was Mongol men breeding East Euro women, just like it was yesterday and just like it will be tomorrow.


Dental data are used to test two hypotheses as to whether the “eastern” traits of the Mesolithic and Neolithic populations of the Russian Plain are due to Mongoloid admixture or to evolutionary conservatism: specifi cally, to the retention of features peculiar to the Upper Paleolithic groups. Frequencies of nonmetric traits (both those used in standard population studies and so-called markers of generalized conservatism) were studied in dental samples from Yuzhny Oleniy Ostrov and Vasilyevka-3 (Mesolithic), Fomino (Ryazan variant of Pit-Comb Ware culture), Karavaikha (Kargopol variant of the same culture), Vovnigi-1 (Kiev-Cherkassy variant of the Neolithic Dnieper-Donets culture), and Vovnigi-2 (Azov-Dnieper variant of the same culture). Published dental data on Zvejnieki (Mesolithic Kunda culture), Yasinovatka and Nikolskoye (Dnieper-Donets culture), Sakhtysh-2a (Lyalovo variant of the Neolithic Pit-Comb Ware culture), and Upper Paleolithic samples from Europe were used for comparison. Both A.A. Zubov’s standard protocol and C.G. Turner’s ASUDAS were employed. The results suggest that multiple evolutionary processes were involved. Northeastern European Mesolithic dentitions indicate both Mongoloid admixture and continuity with Upper Paleolithic groups. Mesolithic series from Ukraine are more specialized in the Caucasoid direction, while also showing certain Upper Paleolithic traits. In the Neolithic, the dental differences between northern and southern Caucasoids decrease, and there is a gradual reduction of both Mongoloid and Upper Paleolithic characteristics. Nonetheless, people of the Pit-Comb Ware culture, like those of Dnieper-Donets culture display certain Upper Paleolithic traits, which are the most evident in Vovnigi-2.


Please never forget that Western European men are the only true white race and will stay that way forever.

[Rethel]

Please never forget that Western European men are the only true white race.

http://167.114.226.27/fbl-2008/200812/27734146.jpg

[Norka]

Poles must really love cock because of their weird facination with Y-DNA.

[Pahli]

Poles must really love cock because of their weird facination with Y-DNA.

Especially IEJ cock :laugh:


http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fullte...9822(16)31542-1 (http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1)



http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2082666...883532/mmc1.pdf (http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2082666371/2072883532/mmc1.pdf)

First R1b:



Second R1b:

Any gedmatch kit numbers?

[Peterski]

Sorry niggers, but R still came to Europe from East Asia, and they already studied the dentition to prove it. R1b in Zvejnieki was Mongol men breeding East Euro women, just like it was yesterday and just like it will be tomorrow.


Dental data are used to test two hypotheses as to whether the “eastern” traits of the Mesolithic and Neolithic populations of the Russian Plain are due to Mongoloid admixture or to evolutionary conservatism: specifically, to the retention of features peculiar to the Upper Paleolithic groups. (...)

There was no Mongoloid admixture in Zvejnieki:

Link (https://www.academia.edu/764235/New_craniometric_evidence_on_the_origin_of_the_Kar elians_the_Kylalahti_Kalmistomaki_burial_ground_)

"A significant contribution to the study of the early population history of Eastern Europe and of the origins of the contradictory trait combinations distributed on that territory was made by T.I. Alekseyeva. In a joint monograph describing the Neolithic cranial series from Sakhtysh in the Upper Volga area, she notes that certainEuropean Mesolithic groups were characterized bylarge dimensions of the braincase and especially by its conspicuous height. The face was wide and relatively low and a flattened upper facial profile co-occurred with a sharp midfacial profile and sharply protruding nasal bones (Alekseyeva, 1997). In Alekseyeva’s words, this unusual trait combination, which was more than once revealed by multivariate statistics, was widely distributed and was typical of Mesolithic Caucasoids of the forest and forest-steppe zones of Eastern Europe as evidenced by groups such as Zvejnieki, Popovo, Southern Oleniy(Reindeer) Island, and Vasilievka I and III. In her words,there is no doubt that robustness and upper facial flatness were inherited from earlier Caucasoid populations of Eastern Europe (Ibid.: 26). In the joint monograph integrating the anthropological studies of the Eastern Slavs, Alekseyeva formulated her conclusions regarding the origin of this trait combination: “Judging by the concentration of these unusual features in Scandinavia,the Baltic and the Onega area, people displaying them had migrated to Eastern Europe from the northwest and were possibly associated with the Mesolithic cultures of the circum-Baltic region. Revisiting the long-standing issue of admixture versus evolutionary conservatism in the Mesolithic population of Eastern Europe in the light of new data, we must reject the admixture hypothesis. The location of this peculiar type and its expansion from the west to the east suggest that it should be regarded as an independent ancient type which originated in northwestern Europe” (Alekseyeva, 1999: 254–255). In the Neolithic, biological continuity with the Mesolithic population was preserved but the diversity increased."

[Peterski]

Mongoloid-like admixture only came much later with N1c haplogroup.


Any gedmatch kit numbers?

Not yet.

[Pahli]

Mongoloid-like admixture only came much later with N1c haplogroup.



Not yet.

R1b is more present in the Western part of Latvia if you look at Eupedias map. Also, it would confirm that they have a connection to the Ancient North Eurasians and Mal'ta culture.

[Harkonnen]

Mongoloid-like admixture only came much later with N1c haplogroup.



Not yet.

LMAO @POLAK SCIENCE

[Peterski]

Early Bronze Age Pole with R1a-Z280 is on GEDmatch:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?202328-R1a-Z280-in-Early-Bronze-Age-Poland&p=4222045&viewfull=1#post4222045

[Peterski]

In total, there are 11 known samples of R1a and R1b which are at least 6000 years old.

The vast majority - seven - among the oldest samples of R1a and R1b are from this area:

http://i.imgur.com/2u0YnBn.png

Outside of this area - 1x R1b in Villabruna, 1x R1b-V88 in Spain, 2x R1a in Lokomotiv.

And that's all when it comes to R1a/b samples older than 6000 or at least 6000 years old.

So the odds are that R1b-M269/L23 and R1a-M198/M417 both originated in East Europe.

[Rethel]

http://i.imgur.com/2u0YnBn.png

And now, the term Matuszka Rasija have totally understandable sense :laugh:


So the odds are that R1b-M269/L23 and R1a-M198/M417 both originated in East Europe.

Why odds?

[johen]

So Proto-Turks originated in Mesolithic Latvia! xD

sorry, proto-turk originated in Mongol Bronze Chandman, who ties with UP and blackfoot Indian( paleo-crogmanon type with lots of R1 and X)


Results indicate the Xiongnu were potentially composed of at least two biologically distinct groups. Individuals from the elite cemetery of Borkhan Tolgoi (Egiin Gol) share their ancestry with a Bronze Age population from western Mongolia, and possibly, to a later migration of Turks

[johen]

edit

[Peterski]

All known R1a/b samples older than 6000 years, chronologically:

1) Villabruna, ca. 14180-13780 (avg. 13980) years ago - R1b
2) Karelia, ca. 8850-8000 (avg. 8425) years ago - R1a
3) Lokomotiv, ca. 8125-6025 (avg. 7075) years ago - R1a
4) Lokomotiv, ca. 8125-6025 (avg. 7075) years ago - R1a
5) Latvia, ca. 7800-7600 (avg. 7700) years ago - R1b
6) Samara, ca. 7650-7560 (avg. 7605) years ago - R1b
7) Iberia, ca. 7180-7060 (avg. 7120) years ago - R1b-V88
8) Latvia, ca. 7250-6800 (avg. 7025) years ago - R1b
9) Khvalynsk, ca. 7200-6000 (avg. 6600) years ago - R1b
10) Khvalynsk, ca. 7200-6000 (avg. 6600) years ago - R1a
11) Smolensk, around 6000 (avg. 6000) years ago - R1a

[johen]

Mongoloid-like admixture only came much later with N1c haplogroup.



East Asian components appeared 13,000y age in Europe.
http://abload.de/img/asgjb6.png

[Rethel]

All known R1a/b samples older than 6000 years, chronologically:

1) Villabruna, ca. 14180-13780 (avg. 13980) years ago - R1b
2) Karelia, ca. 8850-8000 (avg. 8425) years ago - R1a
3) Lokomotiv, ca. 8125-6025 (avg. 7075) years ago - R1a
4) Lokomotiv, ca. 8125-6025 (avg. 7075) years ago - R1a
5) Latvia, ca. 7800-7600 (avg. 7700) years ago - R1b
6) Samara, ca. 7650-7560 (avg. 7605) years ago - R1b
7) Iberia, ca. 7180-7060 (avg. 7120) years ago - R1b-V88
8) Latvia, ca. 7250-6800 (avg. 7025) years ago - R1b
9) Khvalynsk, ca. 7200-6000 (avg. 6600) years ago - R1b
10) Khvalynsk, ca. 7200-6000 (avg. 6600) years ago - R1a
11) Smolensk, around 6000 (avg. 6000) years ago - R1a


I am curious, if Sungirians were Indoeuropeans.
They seem to be very different than other tribes
at that time + they are very advanced comparing
to neighbouring cultures.

[Grab the Gauge]

There's no secret as to who the "short wide face people with convex noses and Mongoloid dental complex" were. Eastern Europe was totally devoid of those people in the early Mesolithic period. They were Amerindian Proto-Indo-Europeans from the Altai.


Proto-Indo R1b:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2d/25/1d/2d251dd8459a2170a7bbfc9c3ae34f23.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Goose_Face,_Dakota_Sioux,_by_Heyn_Photo,_1900.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_akOD74dlP4E/StaFrN4xIWI/AAAAAAAAAkc/JJt-S2g18i0/s720/Broken+Arm+Sioux+Chief.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/pTeNosH.jpg?1

http://www.nativi.altervista.org/bread-apsaroke.jpg


Let's fuckstart a Holocaust.

[Peterski]

It was R1b-P297: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?202378-The-oldest-known-White-person-lived-11-000-years-ago-in-Ukraine&p=4222719&viewfull=1#post4222719

[Proto-Shaman]

R1b is one of the last haplogroups on this globe to be associated with fantasy Indo-Euros. Battle Axe Turks. no surprise. Z92 also no surprise there. Mongol look also no surprise. boring.

[Peterski]

R1b is one of the last haplogroups on this globe to be associated with fantasy Indo-Euros. Battle Axe Turks. no surprise. Z92 also no surprise there. Mongol look also no surprise. boring.

Turan stronk in Latvia!

[Proto-Shaman]

Turan stronk in Latvia!

:D

I just googled for that xD xD xD ... and fell off my chair fuck yeeyy :cool:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/40_Language/ShugeTurkicLatvianEn.htm

Galina Shuke
Were the Latvians Türks?
Phenomenon of Türkic substrate's presence in Baltic Languages
Daugavpils, 2010, ISBN 978-9984-49-046-5
© Galina Shuke, 2010

Sorry man.

[Proto-Shaman]

To researchers, free from political bias and ambition, who serve Her Majesty the truth, I dedicate this.

non-Türan propaganda confirmed :thumb001:

[Charles Bronson]

Mongol pride worldwide!

Like Genghis Khan - red-skinned, unable to tan.
Chinese and others with ON y-dna haplo are Sinoids, not Mongols, lol

Do you attack me Kiro.

[Ylla]

Poles must really love cock because of their weird facination with Y-DNA.

:rotfl:

[Proto-Shaman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APyO0TzLrZM

[Peterski]

Poles must really love cock because of their weird facination with Y-DNA.
:rotfl:

It is actually important to love your own cock.

[johen]

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fullte...9822(16)31542-1 (http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)31542-1)



http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2082666...883532/mmc1.pdf (http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2082666371/2072883532/mmc1.pdf)

First R1b:

Latvia_HG2: Burial 93. Adult male. Buried in extended supine position with head facing southwest. Grave
goods included 23 teeth pendants, one beaver bone and three bird bones. Ochre layer surrounded the skeleton.
14C date: Hela-1212, 6840 ±55 BP (7,791-7,586 cal BP).





Bird bones have been found in a number of
Mesolithic and Neolithic burials in northern Europe,
but they are seldom studied in a wider perspective
(Gurina 1956; Jaanits 1957; Guminski
2005; Mannermaa 2006; 2008). A famous and
often cited archaeological find is the grave from
the Late Mesolithic Vedbæk Bøgebakken site in
Denmark (Fig. 1) that contained the remains of
a young woman and a newborn baby who was
buried on a whooper swan wing (Albrethsen &
Brinch Petersen 1976).


Certain birds are perceived as helping or
guardian spirits in Saami religion (Karsten 1955;
Hultkrantz 1987; Schanche 2000). Animal bones
in Saami graves and offering places may represent
the dead animal’s spirit (Schanche 2000:
299). Bones hold a metaphorical relation to
power and the spirit of the animal. By putting
the bones of a spirit animal in a grave, its power
accompanied the dead person (Schanche 2000:
296). Wing bones have perhaps symbolized
complete wings or a living bird. This might indicate
that animal body parts used in burial rituals
referred to those elements that were important in
the animal’s relation with humans (see Schanche
2000: 295; Fowler 2004: 136–7).
It is also possible that parts of important animals
were fastened to the death costumes as decorations
and symbols. The use of parts of totem
animals or implements depicting them in dress
decoration is a common practice among recent
hunter-gatherer societies in Siberia. For example,
a Yakut shaman (Altai) wore a costume which
resembles a golden eagle, a leader (Lönnquist
1986: 84; Siikala 2002: 44). The Nganasan shaman’s
costume had motifs of the most powerful
birds (Taksami 1998: 21).

another R1b-p297 shaman in Bolshemys culture
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/833645_bf93038edbe4911247f1ff32304def35.png/v1/fill/w_301,h_465,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/833645_bf93038edbe4911247f1ff32304def35.png
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/833645_58ae488e246e0a6e5b3be47e8b5de0fc.jpg/v1/fill/w_620,h_465,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/833645_58ae488e246e0a6e5b3be47e8b5de0fc.webp

[Petalpusher]

another R1b-p297 shaman in Bolshemys culture


As usual,

R1b = Elite graves
R1a = Peasant graves

:bored:

[Rethel]

As usual,

R1b = Elite graves
R1a = Peasant graves

:bored:


So now Y matters... :picard2:

[Petalpusher]

So now Y matters... :picard2:

8000 years ago in the mesolithic, yes a bit more.

Still not as much as you think since all these R1 predate your "muh IE" by thousands of years.


Btw these HG samples aren't likely blue eyes, they have lower prediction values of blue eyes than the other mesolithic of the same period. Eye colour prediction at 0.7 or 0.5 is in best case scenario green eyes but most likely hazel for the 0.5, people who take this test nowadays with more than 0.9 are truely blue eyes usually. Besides, all dark hair but this is the usual thing. On the other hand they indeed might have developped fair skin earlier, around the same time than the farmers, also the usual pattern of the meso more related to EHG. Nothing really new here, except the Ukrainian that has nothing, and well.. more mesolithic R1b.

The only sample that is convincingly light eyes/light hair is the middle neolithic Latvia MN1, about a thousand years later, which is still way before any steppe influences.

https://s14.postimg.org/l1uxbin5d/Lat_HG.png

[Rethel]

8000 years ago in the mesolithic, yes a bit more.

Why 8001 doesn;t count?


Still not as much as you think since all these R1 predate your "muh IE" by thousands of years.

It is of course not true, but you are free to belive what you want to.


Btw these HG samples aren't likely blue eyes, they have lower prediction values of blue eyes than the other mesolithic of the same period. Eye colour prediction at 0.7 or 0.5 is in best case scenario green eyes but most likely hazel for the 0.5, people who take this test nowadays with more than 0.9 are truely blue eyes usually. Besides, all dark hair but this is the usual thing. On the other hand they indeed might have developped fair skin earlier, around the same time than the farmers, also the usual pattern of the meso more related to EHG. Nothing really new here, except the Ukrainian that has nothing, and well.. more mesolithic R1b.

They could be even negros - it doesn;t matter in this part.


The only sample that is convincingly light eyes/light hair is the middle neolithic Latvia MN1, about a thousand years later, which is still way before any steppe influences.

There was no thousands fictional years, but even if would be, it does
not matter. Steppeites didn;t grew from earth accidently 3000 BC.
They had to live somewhere 3001 years ago.

[BarcelonaAtlantis]

So Proto-Turks originated in Mesolithic Latvia! xD

The envied and maligned Basques(true royal celts=tudors/stuarts)are the origin of R1b.Any educated person should know this in 2017.Quit glory hunting and granting the glory to people who arent the origin of the true royal haplogroup.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?132958-Historians-note-that-Odin-who-was-a-very-popular-Thracian-ruler-Thracians-a-hidden-history

[Pahli]

The envied and maligned Basques(true royal celts=tudors/stuarts)are the origin of R1b.Any educated person should know this in 2017.Quit glory hunting and granting the glory to people who arent the origin of the true royal haplogroup.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?132958-Historians-note-that-Odin-who-was-a-very-popular-Thracian-ruler-Thracians-a-hidden-history

Shut the fuck up, Basques were most likely I2 prior to farmer migration from Anatolia, and that R1b came during the Bronze age migrations from the Steppes, it didn't originate anywhere near the Iberian peninsula

[Rethel]

The envied and maligned Basques(true royal celts=tudors/stuarts)are the origin of R1b.Any educated person should know this in 2017.

Any educated person in 2017 knows, that Basques are I2, (at least NOT R1) and
R1b people are foreigners. But any thinking person knew this allready in 2007.


Quit glory hunting and granting the glory to people who arent the origin of the true royal haplogroup.

I can assure you, that there was much more serves and slaves with that hg, than Kings :laugh:

[Proto-Shaman]

Reactions of non-R1 IE's when "IE R1 identity" is under threat:

http://i.imgur.com/0RMDeuz.gif

[Voskos]

R1baltids

[DarknessWin]

on the other hand - R1b was master race - they bring the knowledge to India, they were from the north! and they still leads on science fields

The countries with the most R1b and over 80% are Cameroon and Nigeria
So maybe they came from the south actually

Also Mesolithic hunters were dark skinned , you people continue to connect haplogroups with skin
color and phenotype. This is ridiculous

[Rethel]

:picard2:

[Wrong]

The countries with the most R1b and over 80% are Cameroon and Nigeria
So maybe they came from the south actually

Also Mesolithic hunters were dark skinned , you people continue to connect haplogroups with skin
color and phenotype. This is ridiculousI can assure you that is due to a back-migration from Eurasia.

[Rethel]

I can assure you that is due to a back-migration from Eurasia.

But first of all, there is no 80% of it.
The common ancestor of all Sahelian
R1b lived 1600 years ago, or something
like that. He could be even direct from
the Roman Empire or from the Vandal
Kingdom, especialy, that the main tribe
which lived there and which created a
local Empire is named... Wandala...

[Ülev]

T1a in the ancient Europe around 7000 YBP; this map show the Y-DNA lineages in Europe on the early Neolithic.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Genetic_landscape_of_Europe_7000_YBP.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184

[Peterski]

Also Mesolithic hunters were dark skinned

Those in Iberia were dark skinned, but those in Latvia were light skinned:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982216315421

"(...) evidence for progressive skin depigmentation in Mesolithic Latvia based on mutations in the SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 genes (rs1426654 and rs16891982, respectively) (...)"

Mesolithic hunters in Ukraine were also light skinned, like those in Latvia:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/archive/index.php/t-9662.html

"The Ukrainian HG is dated to 11143 - 10591 ybp so about 9193 BC - 8641 BC and yet is derived for both SLC45A2 and SLC24A5 making it the oldest sample derived for both light skin mutations."

[Peterski]

T1a in the ancient Europe around 7000 YBP; this map show the Y-DNA lineages in Europe on the early Neolithic.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Genetic_landscape_of_Europe_7000_YBP.png

There is no evidence that there was any R1b in the Middle East at that time.

[Wrong]

There is no evidence that there was any R1b in the Middle East at that time.
That map is not official at any rate. J2a was only found in Bronze Age in Hungary for example.

7000 years ago.. That's way before BA.

[Proto-Shaman]

There is no evidence that there was any R1b in the Middle East at that time.
thanks to U.S.IS

[Rethel]

Any new news?

[Pahli]

Kek, so ancient Balts were light eyed, pale skinned and dark haired, not uncommon actually, blondism is heavily overrated in North Europe :laugh:

[Lucas]

Any new news?

Preprint must be printed;/
We wait also apart from Northern Europe waiting for SE-Europe (including Ukraine genomes), Bell Beaker (genomes from Germany to Britain), not to mention Wielbark and early Polish medieval, it's only anegdotical:)

[Rethel]

Preprint must be printed;/
We wait also apart from Northern Europe waiting for SE-Europe (including Ukraine genomes), Bell Beaker (genomes from Germany to Britain), not to mention Wielbark and early Polish medieval, it's only anegdotical:)

But Bell Beakers, Wielbarks and similar animals, are not so exiting any more.
Something is allready known, and the period and place where it was has to
have many different hgs, as the normal old and new people should be.

It is also known, the Mesolithic Russia was actually R1, so now what is most
important, it is to determined, was is local or not, and was there also some
R2 or pre-R2? I think also, that the most interesting results would be of the
man from Sungir and some similar remains.


Kek, so ancient Balts were light eyed, pale skinned and dark haired, not uncommon actually, blondism is heavily overrated in North Europe :laugh:

Ok, but what is your point?

[Stears]

It is proof that R1b is not the original IE marker.

[Rethel]

Nevermind.

[Pahli]

.

Ok, but what is your point?

That blondism is fucking overrated bro


Preprint must be printed;/
We wait also apart from Northern Europe waiting for SE-Europe (including Ukraine genomes), Bell Beaker (genomes from Germany to Britain), not to mention Wielbark and early Polish medieval, it's only anegdotical:)

You don't have gedmatch samples from this study yet?

[Peterski]

You don't have gedmatch samples from this study yet?

Genomes from this study have not been published so far because it was just a pre-print.

[stemm99]

Reconstructions from that burial site:

66689
66690
66691
66692

[Pahli]

Genomes from this study have not been published so far because it was just a pre-print.

Any idea when it will come out?

[Rethel]

Reconstructions from that burial site:

66689
66690
66691
66692

Potatoes... :pout:

[Harkonnen]

Potatoes... :pout:

If those are from Zvejnieki, they are not Indo-European faces.

[Proto-Shaman]

Reconstructions from that burial site:

66689
66690
66691
66692

they look like Tatars