Wikileaks: Between 2003 and 2009 109,032 deaths in Iraq

[The Lawspeaker]

Wikileaks: Between 2003 and 2009 109,032 deaths in Iraq (http://www.wikileaks.org/)

At 5pm EST Friday 22nd October 2010 WikiLeaks released the largest classified military leak in history. The 391,832 reports ('The Iraq War Logs'), document the war and occupation in Iraq, from 1st January 2004 to 31st December 2009 (except for the months of May 2004 and March 2009) as told by soldiers in the United States Army. Each is a 'SIGACT' or Significant Action in the war. They detail events as seen and heard by the US military troops on the ground in Iraq and are the first real glimpse into the secret history of the war that the United States government has been privy to throughout.

The reports detail 109,032 deaths in Iraq, comprised of 66,081 'civilians'; 23,984 'enemy' (those labeled as insurgents); 15,196 'host nation' (Iraqi government forces) and 3,771 'friendly' (coalition forces). The majority of the deaths (66,000, over 60%) of these are civilian deaths.That is 31 civilians dying every day during the six year period. For comparison, the 'Afghan War Diaries', previously released by WikiLeaks, covering the same period, detail the deaths of some 20,000 people. Iraq during the same period, was five times as lethal with equivallent population size.

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[Psychonaut]

http://www.tweak3d.net/forums/imagehosting/34514b5b4b8f83919.gif

[poiuytrewq0987]

What is the official death count told to us and this?

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm still waiting...

[Sol Invictus]

October 19, 2010 | IPS News

New information on the Central Intelligence Agency’s campaign of drone strikes in northwest Pakistan directly contradicts the image the Barack Obama administration and the CIA have sought to establish in the news media of a programme based on highly accurate targeting that is effective in disrupting al Qaeda’s terrorist plots against the United States.

A new report on civilian casualties in the war in Pakistan has revealed direct evidence that a house was targeted for a drone attack merely because it had been visited by a group of Taliban soldiers.

The report came shortly after publication of the results of a survey of opinion within the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan showing overwhelming popular opposition to the drone strikes and majority support for suicide attacks on U.S. forces under some circumstances.

Meanwhile, data on targeting of the drone strikes in Pakistan indicate that they have now become primarily an adjunct of the U.S. war in Afghanistan, targeting almost entirely militant groups involved in the Afghan insurgency rather than al Qaeda officials involved in plotting global terrorism.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=53194

[poiuytrewq0987]

What is the official death count told to us and this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

[poiuytrewq0987]

people getting shot from a helicopter is not a pleasant sight and it does disturb me, but i think i would phrase my feelings more along the lines of "what the hell did you expect to see?" rather than saying that it's not disturbing.

I knew democracy now would be all over this like flies on shit.

democracy now for everyone!

[Debaser11]

The morality store didn't have the right version so I kept my own. I'll try when it opens tomorrow. Sorry.

:confused:

[Debaser11]

They are mad because I'm not all troubled and heated over some non-European people being killed in a war-zone.


The Reuters guy was not a European.

Yet even if he had been it is a war/armed conflict. People die. One is not immoral for not being troubled to a great degree by this fact. It is a fact of life.

I actually agree that a person is not necessarily immoral for not being troubled at the sight of death. However, I don't think such feelings of detachment are good. I mean, soldiers wrestle with this stuff all the time because they don't want to lose their humanity.


Someone is being raped violently to death right now, should I get up and prance around all worried? No that would be nonsensical. Life is life don't deem me immoral simply because I take it in different strides than you.

If you're addressing me specifically, I did no such thing. I don't even think I used the word "moral" in my post. I just don't think it's healthy to become desensitized. You're free to disagree all you want.

[Austin]

I actually agree that a person is not necessarily immoral for not being troubled at the sight of death. However, I don't think such feelings of detachment are good. I mean, soldiers wrestle with this stuff all the time because they don't want to lose their humanity.



If you're addressing me specifically, I did no such thing. I don't even think I used the word "moral" in my post. I just don't think it's healthy to become desensitized. You're free to disagree all you want.

No I wasn't mentioning you, nobody was the one lol.

I do find it sad that they died. Yet I find it sad that anybody dies.

[Loki]

I'm just so glad Uncle Sam got rid of Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction ... otherwise we poor sods in Europe would have laid in ruins now!! Thank God.

[blan]

they killed more civilians than anyone other group of people!?
and what is all this about america being this amazing force that is so highly trained? maybe i am wrong maybe many of these death were caused my insurgents but still, it seems to be routine to kill anyone you want,
i have talked to vets who tell me stories about wasting people simply because they felt like it. not lets see how many american troops have been killed in iraq.
the terrorists are winning, they provoked such a situation where they have got more people killed than 50 9/11s put together.

[Psychonaut]

and what is all this about america being this amazing force that is so highly trained?

We are; our training the shit. Which is exactly why we have lost less than 5,000 people amidst a war that has claimed the lives of over a hundred thousand. The thing you've got to understand about tactical training is that the main focus is not the prevention of civilian casualties that is incidental to the twofold duty of any leader: accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of his soldiers. Our training is entirely geared around this—accomplishing our objective at minimal loss to our own people, and in this no one can touch us.


it seems to be routine to kill anyone you want, i have talked to vets who tell me stories about wasting people simply because they felt like it.

EIther you're a liar or you hang out with liars.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I'm just so glad Uncle Sam got rid of Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction ... otherwise we poor sods in Europe would have laid in ruins now!! Thank God.

Do remember who's your master. America could take on all of Europe and still win. :)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Amerika Uber Alles!

[The Ripper]

Many times that number has sought refuge in Europe.

USA out of Iraq, Iraq out of Europe.

[Sol Invictus]

The Central Intelligence Agency has long acknowledged and analyzed the concept of blowback in our foreign policy. It still amazes me that so many think that attacks against our soldiers occupying hostile foreign lands are motivated by hatred toward our system of government at home or by the religion of the attackers. In fact, most of the anger towards us is rooted in reactions towards seeing their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and other loved ones being killed by a foreign army. No matter our intentions, the violence of our militarism in foreign lands causes those residents to seek revenge if innocents are killed. One does not have to be Muslim to react this way, just human.

-Ron Paul

Members of U.S. platoon in Afghanistan accused of killing civilians for sport

The Washington Post
September 17, 2010

The U.S. soldiers hatched a plan as simple as it was savage: to randomly target and kill an Afghan civilian, and to get away with it.

For weeks, according to Army charging documents, rogue members of a platoon from the 5th Stryker Combat Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, floated the idea.

Then, one day last winter, a solitary Afghan man approached them in the village of La Mohammed Kalay. The “kill team” activated the plan.

One soldier created a ruse that they were under attack, tossing a fragmentary grenade on the ground. Then others opened fire.

According to charging documents, the unprovoked, fatal attack on Jan. 15 was the start of a months-long shooting spree against Afghan civilians that resulted in some of the grisliest allegations against American soldiers since the U.S. invasion in 2001.

Members of the platoon have been charged with dismembering and photographing corpses, as well as hoarding a skull and other human bones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/18/AR2010091803935_pf.html

[Austin]

Many times that number has sought refuge in Europe.

USA out of Iraq, Iraq out of Europe.

Yes but who opens the doors when they get to Europe's borders? Oh that's right there is no door Europe just lets them in.

Bad immigration policies by Europe are not America's fault. There will always be a stream of poor people who want into Europe from some disaster areas. It is not America's decision whether they are allowed in.

This is a common theme among Europeans and is used as a cheap scapegoat for what is a European domestic issue that is more easily blamed on America than dealt with at home. America is pinned as the facilitator of immigrants to Europe while European immigration policy is wide open or has been for decades. America does not control Europe in any respect. There wouldn't be an EU if it did as such an economic entity hurts our economic dominance by existing at all. Europe should not speak with two tongues in this respect.

If Europe desires less immigrants/immigrant related crime then adopt stronger immigration policies/laws and accept the fact that European justice needs to evolve. Europe needs more people in prison such as in the U.S. This would alleviate much of Europe's immigrant gangs/miscreants as it does in the U.S., half or more of prisoners in the U.S. are non-white.

Also be honest Europe doesn't have mass immigrant populations now because of past/current U.S. conflicts. Europe has for many years now had a policy of mass immigration being welcomed and internally facilitated. I can find that out by reading these boards at a glance. Europe can no longer eat pie and still have cake in terms of immigrants.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The Central Intelligence Agency has long acknowledged and analyzed the concept of blowback in our foreign policy. It still amazes me that so many think that attacks against our soldiers occupying hostile foreign lands are motivated by hatred toward our system of government at home or by the religion of the attackers. In fact, most of the anger towards us is rooted in reactions towards seeing their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and other loved ones being killed by a foreign army. No matter our intentions, the violence of our militarism in foreign lands causes those residents to seek revenge if innocents are killed. One does not have to be Muslim to react this way, just human.

-Ron Paul

Members of U.S. platoon in Afghanistan accused of killing civilians for sport

The Washington Post
September 17, 2010

The U.S. soldiers hatched a plan as simple as it was savage: to randomly target and kill an Afghan civilian, and to get away with it.

For weeks, according to Army charging documents, rogue members of a platoon from the 5th Stryker Combat Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, floated the idea.

Then, one day last winter, a solitary Afghan man approached them in the village of La Mohammed Kalay. The “kill team” activated the plan.

One soldier created a ruse that they were under attack, tossing a fragmentary grenade on the ground. Then others opened fire.

According to charging documents, the unprovoked, fatal attack on Jan. 15 was the start of a months-long shooting spree against Afghan civilians that resulted in some of the grisliest allegations against American soldiers since the U.S. invasion in 2001.

Members of the platoon have been charged with dismembering and photographing corpses, as well as hoarding a skull and other human bones.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/18/AR2010091803935_pf.html

Thankfully, the US is immune to war crimes charges. :rolleyes:

[Austin]

I know it will shock you but I did a paper in university which basically stated that war crimes are a complete fallacy and due to being impossible to enforce might as well not exist. I got an A+

In the paper I said that if I was the leader of Sudan I'd write a public apology letter to every member state of the ICC (International Criminal Court) detailing and apologizing for their governments wasting 100$ million dollars to send me a letter of arrest and guilt. I would then sign the letter of apology and go back to ruling my country.

Believe it or not I and many others in the world think the whole idea of war crimes are laughable at best.

[The Ripper]

Yes but who opens the doors when they get to Europe's borders? Oh that's right there is no door Europe just lets them in.

Bad immigration policies by Europe are not America's fault. There will always be a stream of poor people who want into Europe from some disaster areas. It is not America's decision whether they are allowed in.

This is a common theme among Europeans and is used as a cheap scapegoat for what is a European domestic issue that is more easily blamed on America than dealt with at home. America is pinned as the facilitator of immigrants to Europe while European immigration policy is wide open or has been for decades. America does not control Europe in any respect. There wouldn't be an EU if it did as such an economic entity hurts our economic dominance by existing at all. Europe should not speak with two tongues in this respect.

If Europe desires less immigrants/immigrant related crime then adopt stronger immigration policies/laws and accept the fact that European justice needs to evolve. Europe needs more people in prison such as in the U.S. This would alleviate much of Europe's immigrant gangs/miscreants as it does in the U.S., half or more of prisoners in the U.S. are non-white.

Also be honest Europe doesn't have mass immigrant populations now because of past/current U.S. conflicts. Europe has for many years now had a policy of mass immigration being welcomed and internally facilitated. I can find that out by reading these boards at a glance. Europe can no longer eat pie and still have cake in terms of immigrants.

Europe should disassociate itself altogether with the current American project, but unfortunately it is not possible since it has become incorporated into its machinery to such an extent.

[Austin]

Europe should disassociate itself altogether with the current American project, but unfortunately it is not possible since it has become incorporated into its machinery to such an extent.

It does interest me as well because Europe clearly is at a crossroads in my mind in respect to America and itself and who it is going to be in the future.

This is how I and many others view Europe, correct me if I am wrong, but in my mind it goes something like this:

-Europe understandably wants to be 100% independent from USA politically

-Europe wants it's global political interests afforded as much weight as U.S. political interests understandably so

-The problem/issue Europe has in achieving this-

-Europe disavows politically/morally/idealistically almost all sustainable defense spending enough to realistically register on the scale of modern competing military capability

-Europe due to above reality of near-complete lack of defense spending relies on a foreign power (the U.S.) for it's overall defense against what Europe still views as a Russian threat



To me and many like me that basically sums up what we think when we think of Europe, right or wrong, what comes to mind is a place that emulates the economy/immigration of the U.S. but doesn't want all that goes with it in respect to multicultural assimilation+defense spending which enables greater global clout. I don't see it through an anti-Europe lens nor do I believe most Americans do rather they see it through the lens of a proverbial guard who is being yelled at. If you want to yell at me and or tell me how I should run things then fine fire me and guard yourself but if you are unwilling then shut up until you are willing to fund guards yourself.

[blan]

EIther you're a liar or you hang out with liars.

yes and maybe all these people are liars as well

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dont worry i know you have a ace up your sleeve....there liars!

[blan]

[QUOTE=Psychonaut;287844]We are; our training the shit. Which is exactly why we have lost less than 5,000 people amidst a war that has claimed the lives of over a hundred thousand. The thing you've got to understand about tactical training is that the main focus is not the prevention of civilian casualties that is incidental to the twofold duty of any leader: accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of his soldiers. Our training is entirely geared around this—accomplishing our objective at minimal loss to our own people, and in this no one can touch us.


really your very conservative figure is different from many other figures

http://antiwar.com/casualties/

this states from 2003 to now the death toll for americans has been much higher than your figure and many other stats agree with this one

[Psychonaut]

yes and maybe all these people are liars as well...

Sorry; if you think I'm actually going to watch twenty three minutes of soldiers turned conscientious objectors whine about the realities of war, you overestimate my patience. I did giggle when the dude in the first video lamented his unit's SOP to shoot up the surrounding landscape immediately after an IED explosion. WTF else should you be doing right after you take fire? Take cover and fight back!


really your very conservative figure is different from many other figures

http://antiwar.com/casualties/

Umm...you might want to read your cite. It lists American casualties as 4,426.

[blan]

Sorry; if you think I'm actually going to watch twenty three minutes of soldiers turned conscientious objectors whine about the realities of war, you overestimate my patience. I did giggle when the dude in the first video lamented his unit's SOP to shoot up the surrounding landscape immediately after an IED explosion. WTF else should you be doing right after you take fire? Take cover and fight back!



Umm...you might want to read your cite. It lists American casualties as 4,426.

your right i did overestimate you, its easier to call people liars than to research a different perspective on whats going on in the world,

[Brynhild]

I know it will shock you but I did a paper in university which basically stated that war crimes are a complete fallacy and due to being impossible to enforce might as well not exist. I got an A+

In the paper I said that if I was the leader of Sudan I'd write a public apology letter to every member state of the ICC (International Criminal Court) detailing and apologizing for their governments wasting 100$ million dollars to send me a letter of arrest and guilt. I would then sign the letter of apology and go back to ruling my country.

Believe it or not I and many others in the world think the whole idea of war crimes are laughable at best.

This might equally shock you to know but anyone can write a thesis. It takes well trained military personnel to do their job and do it well. I feel for the troops who have to fight just to save their lives, along with the innocent civilians who live with such horrors day after day - regardless of their ethnicity. The problem with war is that all sides have an agenda and all sides think their ideology is the right one.

[Debaser11]

This might equally shock you to know but anyone can write a thesis. It takes well trained military personnel to do their job and do it well. I feel for the troops who have to fight just to save their lives, along with the innocent civilians who live with such horrors day after day - regardless of their ethnicity. The problem with war is that all sides have an agenda and all sides think their ideology is the right one.

Why is it a problem for all sides to have an agenda or for all sides to think their ideology is correct? Furthermore, is not war predicated on such innate conditions which also exist outside of war?

[Austin]

This might equally shock you to know but anyone can write a thesis. It takes well trained military personnel to do their job and do it well. I feel for the troops who have to fight just to save their lives, along with the innocent civilians who live with such horrors day after day - regardless of their ethnicity. The problem with war is that all sides have an agenda and all sides think their ideology is the right one.

What I was saying by mentioning the paper and the score is that moralistic ideals on war are, as you stated, purely ideological in the most basic sense.

For instance I don't have a moral dilemma with Russian-funded, anti-NATO groups paying recently dejected U.S. soldiers to slander the U.S. military. That is part of the political fallout of a modern war and is perfectly understandable. Russia is just doing what any competing power would do to undermine it's opponent in providing funds/logistics to character such as the Wikileaks figure.

Europe does the same to Russia in respect to negative coverage of it's social services. The U.S. does it to Europe in respect to the EU and attempts to undermine it. Human Rights are wielded as an international political rape tool and shouldn't be given any real consideration as all claims of moralistic human rights abuses are, as you stated, ideological in nature.


For instance in Darfur. Why is the U.S. concerned about Darfur? There have been numerous black on black genocides in Africa in the last fifty years that make Darfur small in comparison yet the U.S. didn't bat an eye. Darfur and U.S. interest in it stems from an ideological viewpoint. Christians in the West want Christianity to be the black African religion and do not want Islam to spread. This is the only reason U.S. Christians care about Darfur all of a sudden. They don't really care about the black Africans, they care about Christianity being defended against Islam.

So all of a sudden it is okay to inject ourselves into a nation and issue an arrest warrant for an elected leader all because he is killing Christians in favor of Muslims. Sounds pretty ideological to me.

[Sol Invictus]

October 27, 2010 | Press TV
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/148265.html

American forces decapitated an Iraqi last year on the order of their higher-up, show recently-exposed US military documents.

The troops operated under the command of an unnamed US major, who had been involved in the rape of an Iraqi female, showed one such document posted on the whistleblower website WikiLeaks.

The incident took place after the victim, the brother of the raped female, reportedly killed a military official in reprisal for the indecent assault.

To enable the May incident in the city of Haditha of the western Iraq province of Al Anbar, the major said he was undertaking the transfer of two prisoners, including the victim.

WikiLeaks has released around 400,000 documents on the 2003-present US-led invasion of Iraq. The founder of the website, Julian Assange, has hailed the disclosure as one "about the truth" behind the war.

The site has also exposed documents on the similar US-led war in Afghanistan and is expected to disclose additional related details.

The following is the body of the original document (http://wikileaks.org/id/9144F69E-423D-4561-52BC3A74A67A6F2F/).

___ DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF EVENT: ON 25MAY09, MAJOR ___ (SWAT CDR) AND COL (___) TOLD -___ LEADERSHIP THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DELIVER TWO DETAINEES TO ___ IN THE NORTH BECAUSE THERE WAS MORE INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE ON THE TWO DETAINEES IN ___ THAN IN HADITHAH. WHILE ___ NORTH, MAJ ___ HIS CONVOY TO PULL OVER AND TRANSFER THE TWO DETAINEES TO HIS UNCLE AND FOUR BROTHERS.

ACCORDING TO COL , ___ IP FOUND ONE OF THE DETAINEES DECAPITATED AND THE OTHER WAS RELEASED BY MAJ ' ___ MEMBERS. MAJ ___ CURRENTLY IN IP CUSTODY.

OVER A YEAR AGO MAJ ___ RELIEVED AS HADITHAH SWAT CDR DUE TO HIS ALLEGED INVOLVEMENT IN THE RAPING OF A FEMALE LOCAL NATIONAL. THE BEHEADED DETAINEE IS REPORTED TO BE THE BROTHER OF THE RAPED FEMALE WHO ALLEGEDLY KILLED MAJ ' ___ IN RETALIATION FOR THE RAPING OF HIS ___.

[Sol Invictus]

October 28, 2010 | The Independent

The White House and the Pentagon have failed to confront and contain the threat to national security posed by WikiLeaks and its founder Julian Assange who should be arrested as an “enemy combatant”, voices on the US conservative right insisted yesterday.

Frustration with the failure of President Barack Obama to combat WikiLeaks has grown since the release of almost 400,000 secret documents that exposed the extent of abuse of prisoners in Iraq by US and Iraqi personnel.

Nor was Whiton alone in his stance. “The government also should be waging war on the WikiLeaks web presence,” an editorial in the conservative Washington Times railed this week. Other infuriated conservative commentators made similar demands on websites of such august institutions as the neoconservative thinktank the American Enterprise Institute (AEI).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/pack-assange-off-to-guantanamo-us-conservatives-tell-obama-2117399.html

[Sol Invictus]

Even if to you human life is worthless to you, you could at least be upset about your taxes funding the slaughter that benefits no one but private business interests, political opportunists and their anti-national agendas.

And that it's endangering the safety and security of citizens at home.

Elements within the highest, most secretive orders of the CIA, Mossad etc no longer have to facilitate and stage terror attacks and risk being exposed. We're giving birth to countless generations of terrorists every single day who, as a result of these atrocities, will stop at nothing to ensure revenge and will take advantage of lax immigration policies already in place to do it. I don't give a shit about Arabs, I only care about my home. And as long as shit like this keeps up we'll only be continuing to sow the seeds to our own destruction, and let me tell you, the folks who got us into this want it that way. The Nation-state itself will be destroyed and the terrorist will be it's starting point (see police state), but also the reaction to the problem the NWO created to begin with.

Absolute genius.

[Austin]

Even if to you human life is worthless to you, you could at least be upset about your taxes funding the slaughter that benefits no one but private business interests, political opportunists and their anti-national agendas.



At least they have a culture. We have American anti-culture, which you seem quite eager to export abroad. :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee: :coffee:


Why do you buy American sitcoms and American songs if you dislike the effect of them? Nobody forces Europe to consume American media.

No I have no issue with my taxes going to foreign wars in Arab lands, none at all. I'd rather them go towards killing Arabs in the Middle East over my taxes being given to international politically correct, wasteful organizations such as the UN and it's pathetic human rights/environmental decrees made to appease Europeans delusional notions of a perfect world where such things even exist.


I must say it is amazing. Europe is being invaded by a third world culture/religion and all Europeans have to say about it is that Israel is evil and American culture/wars in distant lands are to blame. No mention at all of European immigration policies or European modern values on social justice which completely amplify all immigration woes by allowing immigrants to have essentially mass-rights.

[The Ripper]

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Why do you buy American sitcoms and American songs if you dislike the effect of them? Nobody forces Europe to consume American media.

I don't.


No I have no issue with my taxes going to foreign wars in Arab lands, none at all. I'd rather them go towards killing Arabs in the Middle East over my taxes being given to international politically correct, wasteful organizations such as the UN and it's pathetic human rights/environmental decrees made to appease Europeans delusional notions of a perfect world where such things even exist.

LOL. What makes you think that neo-con globalists and UN globalists are somehow opposed to each other.


I must say it is amazing. Europe is being invaded by a third world culture/religion and all Europeans have to say about it is that Israel is evil and American culture/wars in distant lands are to blame. No mention at all of European immigration policies or European modern values on social justice which completely amplify all immigration woes by allowing immigrants to have essentially mass-rights.

1) The invasion is justified with americanism (civil rights, Martin Luther King, white liberal guilt).
2) The invasion is facilitated by American actions in the third world.
3) The invasion is facilitated by an American-dominated political elite.
4) American money is used to topple and undermine nationalist governments and parties in Europe and to introduce "free market capitalism" and pro-American governments.
5) You are happy that your taxes go toward that end.

You clueless hick. I have nothing else to say to you.

[Austin]

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I don't.



LOL. What makes you think that neo-con globalists and UN globalists are somehow opposed to each other.



1) The invasion is justified with americanism (civil rights, Martin Luther King, white liberal guilt). Pathetic scapegoat to avoid what are European domestic problems.
2) The invasion is facilitated by American actions in the third world. No it is facilitated by European immigration policies. Another scapegoat.
3) The invasion is facilitated by an American-dominated political elite. Last I checked Europeans vote, yet another lame, bogus scapegoat.
4) American money is used to topple and undermine nationalist governments and parties in Europe and to introduce "free market capitalism" and pro-American governments. Yes and who asks America to come in and do these things? Who do you think was screaming at America to bomb the Serbs? Get a clue. America doesn't control the economies of Europe, Europe just feels the effect of the American economy because it is the largest, Europeans dislike that reality.
5) You are happy that your taxes go toward that end. I am happy that my taxes go towards killing Arabs. My nations military killing Arabs has nothing to do with whether Europe, an independent political sphere, allows immigrants into it's borders.

You clueless hick. I have nothing else to say to you.


Yeah Europe is controlled by America blah blah blah. You are going to have to get over that and accept the responsibility for your adopted values and elected officials if Europe is ever going to come back in it's true form.

Couldn't have anything to do with European immigration policies. Oh no everything in Europe is copied from America. European political values and or officials are not to blame it is all the American money and support that is the problem. Lets not forget evil capitalism and what terrible things it has done to Europe.....

[Saruman]

How many of those deaths were caused by Islamist suicide/car bombs?


Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 25 January 2010 (UTC+3)
Attack type Car bombs
Death(s) 41
Belligerent(s) Islamic State of Iraq

Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 1 February 2010
11.45AM – (UTC+3)
Target Mutiple
Attack type Suicide Bomber
Death(s) approx 54
Injured 117
Suspected belligerent(s) Al-Qaeda

Location Baqubah, Iraq
Date 3 March 2010
9:30 – (UTC+3)
Attack type Car bombs/Suicide bombs
Death(s) 33
Injured 55
Suspected belligerent(s) Al-Qaeda in Iraq

Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 4 April 2010 (UTC+3)
Target Multiple embassies
Attack type Car bombs
Death(s) 42
Injured 224
Suspected belligerent(s) Islamic State of Iraq

Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 6 April 2010
Target Government Buildings
Attack type Homemade bombs
Death(s) 58
Injured 170+
Suspected belligerent(s) Unknown

Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 23–24 April 2010 (UTC+4)
Target Mostly Shiite gatherings
Attack type coordinated bomb detonations
Death(s) 85+
Injured 145+
Suspected belligerent(s) Al-Qaeda in Iraq

Location Baghdad, Mosul, Basra, Fallujah, Iskandariyah, Al Tarmia, Suwayrah, Samarra. Iraq
Date 10 May 2010 (UTC+4)
Target various
Attack type coordinated bomb detonations, targeted killings
Death(s) 100+
Injured 350+
Suspected belligerent(s) Al-Qaeda in Iraq

Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 6-8 July 2010
19:45 – (UTC+4)
Target Shia pilgrims
Attack type Suicide bomb + other bombings
Death(s) 70+
Injured 400+
Suspected belligerent(s) Sunni militants

Location Baghdad, Iraq
Date 17 August 2010
7:30[1] and 21:30 – (UTC+3)
Target Army recruits & Shias
Attack type Suicide bombing and Truck bombing
Death(s) 69+
Injured 169
Belligerent(s) Islamic State of Iraq (al-Qaeda in Iraq)

Location Across Iraq
Date 25 August 2010 (UTC+3)
Target Mostly security services and checkpoints
Attack type Suicide bombings, Car bombings, and IEDs
Death(s) 53+
Injured 270+
Belligerent(s) Islamic State of Iraq
Suspected belligerent(s) Al Qaeda in Iraq + Iraqi Baath party

Date 19 September 2010 (UTC+4)
Attack type coordinated bomb detonations
Death(s) 31+
Injured 100+
Belligerent(s) Islamic State of Iraq
Suspected belligerent(s) Al-Qaeda in Iraq

This year in these mayor attacks at least 636 dead and 2000 wounded. It's Arabs killing Arabs.

[Aramis]

This is most certainly the root of the problem, yes. The mudslim Arabs gone wild and killing (mostly other Arabs) all over the world. In the meantime the secular American liberation forces (God save them) put all their resources to restore the natural equilibrium (of free market capitalism and democrapcy) in our world, while the liberal Europeans got completely out of control doing nothing but playing the same old tune of human rights, undermining the efficiency of American operations, thus denying their own, true path to salvation.

------------------------------------

Not sure if I missed anything out, but that's basically what I understood from these posts above.

Sorry if I'm maybe exaggerating now a bit, but I'd rather live like a caveman again then belong to a mass (culture), serving plutocratic elites whos exclusive pursuit lies in their own material interests, using foul tricks while waving a false banner of freedom.

I believe it needs time and knowledge to understand how it works, but not much brain - i.e. a simple and most basic understanding of human psychology, history and economy - to get a grip on what's going around and who the main actors are.

[The Ripper]

Not sure if I missed anything out, but that's basically what I understood from these posts above.

You forgot to add that whenever a non-white person dies, Europe and Our Race benefits.

[Aramis]

You forgot to add that whenever a non-white person dies, Europe and Our Race benefits.

Well yes, but it's basic logic, no need to stress it out.

Talking about it, do you think the same rule could be applied in the context of smaller groups (i.e. families), and their sphere of interests? There are some indivuduals around me that need to be taken care of.
Who needs nobility of spirit and mind when you can get aristocratic status through brute force? Might makes right, that's afterall the cornerstone of our great civilisation (worth preserving).

[Harcos]

Yeah Europe is controlled by America blah blah blah. You are going to have to get over that and accept the responsibility for your adopted values and elected officials if Europe is ever going to come back in it's true form.

Couldn't have anything to do with European immigration policies. Oh no everything in Europe is copied from America. European political values and or officials are not to blame it is all the American money and support that is the problem. Lets not forget evil capitalism and what terrible things it has done to Europe.....

Correct, Europe is controlled by America.

Have you ever been to Europe? Theres American influence everywhere, television, music, clothing, food, behaviour et c. It is disgusting how we could become so culturally degenerate in little more than half a century. American 'culture' is anti-culture, it's immoral and decadent, materialistic and Jewish.

You can't really blame us Europeans for it either, since your decadent values were imposed on Europe after the war with force, you might aswell blame eastern Europe for being communist for half a century too.

America is the great Satan. The land of degeneration and individualism.

[Sol Invictus]

I don't think it's fair to put the blame on America at all. The people who've contrived this madness have been influenced by more than so-called American culture. Remember, things like Marxism didn't breed itself into existence in America. You can't say it's America's fault. It's purely misguided. Consumerism, Corporatocracy & Globalism are the problems and people unfortunately take this as what true core American values and traditions are.

Also, Europe is not controlled by "America" at all. That's complete rubbish. Look no further than the treasonous CFR, Trilateralists, and Bilderbergs. These are Globalist organizations with no allegiances to any Nation, no matter how American they look from the outside. In the end, their goal is the destruction of Europe and American national traditions in order to reconstruct the planet according to their image. That's Henry Kissinger's own words. America, because of it's geostrategic importance, and military prowess is merely a vehicle to export Globalism. Like all viruses, it's mission is only completed when it destroys it's host from within, and unfortunately, it's in it's advanced stages.

[Radojica]

Why do you care so much about Arabs being killed? I have no issue with it at all that my nations military kills Arabs. Are your cheap social leftist principles being infringed upon by seeing this? Awww

Arabs are not a European peoples and they are culturally opposed to my culture hence I and many others in the West have no moral issue at all with this.
:coffee::coffee::coffee:

Hey brave one, why don't you join the army, take the gun and don't go and kill a few of them by yourself?:wink

I bet in everything I have that at the first sound of the bullet flying over your head you'd shit your pants... Most of "brave" internet warriors, like yourself, are like that. Brave from some basement, but in reality nothing more than a bunch of sissies. Shut up already, you make many of those Westerners sick too.

[Sol Invictus]

Hey brave one, why don't you join the army, take the gun and don't go and kill a few of them by yourself?:wink

You kidding? Rich little kids aren't the ones who fight wars, they're the ones egging on poor working class men because they're the ones who stand to benefit. Big surprise his family has links to Mossad by his own admission, destined to be a millionaire through an inheritance. Whether or not that's true or he's talking out of his ass I'm not sure but judging from his posts I wouldn't be surprised.

[Harcos]

I don't think it's fair to put the blame on America at all. The people who've contrived this madness have been influenced by more than so-called American culture. Remember, things like Marxism didn't breed itself into existence in America. You can't say it's America's fault. It's purely misguided. Consumerism, Corporatocracy & Globalism are the problems and people unfortunately take this as what true core American values and traditions are.

Also, Europe is not controlled by "America" at all. That's complete rubbish. Look no further than the treasonous CFR, Trilateralists, and Bilderbergs. These are Globalist organizations with no allegiances to any Nation, no matter how American they look from the outside. In the end, their goal is the destruction of Europe and American national traditions in order to reconstruct the planet according to their image. That's Henry Kissinger's own words. America, because of it's geostrategic importance, and military prowess is merely a vehicle to export Globalism. Like all viruses, it's mission is only completed when it destroys it's host from within, and unfortunately, it's in it's advanced stages.

I do blame America as a state, because it has since the dawn of history been a freemasonic and Jewish playground for capitalists and their greedy self-interests. Individualism, capitalism and democracy are the core values of America, all of which I oppose. If these values would affect America and Americans only, and keep their sick values inside their own borders then I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the problem is that America is politically and culturally imperialistic, and seeks to impose its decadent culture and values onto other people and nations, indirect or direct.

Iran and N. Korea are the two last strongholds against this americanism, but for how long? Just look at what they did to Afghanistan and Iraq, just because they wouldn't succumb to the zionist iron fist of America. America is the cause and origin of this consumerism and globalist organizations, and only benefits America and it's Jewish masters. So who would I blame, if not America? They don't want America to ceast to exist, why would they? America is their creation, they merely want it to expand to include the rest of the world. That is the new world order, the entire world united under the star-spangled banner and the star of David.

What is American culture? America is an artifical nation composed of alot of different peoples and cultural backgrounds. American culture in my opinion is pop-culture, hip hop, hollywood, pornography, fast food et cetera which is currently infesting Europe. What would America be without cultural degeneration and Judeo-Capitalist bankers?

As for Marxism, it didn't breed itself into existence in America because it is contradictory to the American values, I don't know wether that is good or bad as I see both western democracy and marxism as equal threats.

[Sol Invictus]

While I am in agreement of much of what you said comrade, I am 100% positive that if George Washington were alive today, America would be finishing off it's 3rd American Revolution (war of North and South being the 2nd).

Understanding the founding fathers, bill or rights and constitution is vital to understand what core American values are. And it's certainly not subjecting another people to the tyranny and oppression the British forced upon them, when the Minutemen, like the Afghan and Iraqi people rose up in defiance.

I'm optimistic the deprogrammed American people will take their country back from the crooks who hijacked her and destroyed her name. The spirit of 1776 is still in the blood, it just needs to be brought out. Only 3% of the American population under General Washington defeated imperialism then, it will happen again.

[Harcos]

While I am in agreement of much of what you said comrade, I am 100% positive that if George Washington were alive today, America would be finishing off it's 3rd American Revolution (war of North and South being the 2nd).

He was a freemason was he not? In that case, it would be somewhat unlikely.

[The Ripper]

I don't think it's fair to put the blame on America at all. The people who've contrived this madness have been influenced by more than so-called American culture. Remember, things like Marxism didn't breed itself into existence in America. You can't say it's America's fault. It's purely misguided. Consumerism, Corporatocracy & Globalism are the problems and people unfortunately take this as what true core American values and traditions are.

Well this is really a semantic discussion about the definition of America. Surely not some democratic republic ruled by a sovereign people, when I use America in this context it means something else entirely. Is the American government and its military extension, are the American major media outlets and "culture-producers" in Hollywood not the strong-arm of the globalists? Was it not in American universities that the cultural rot became an export commodity? Isn't the American social vision, the melting pot, or its variations, the social ideal marketed for every society on the planet? American global hegemony enables the rule of the globalist free marketeers.

[Harcos]

While I am in agreement of much of what you said comrade, I am 100% positive that if George Washington were alive today, America would be finishing off it's 3rd American Revolution (war of North and South being the 2nd).

Understanding the founding fathers, bill or rights and constitution is vital to understand what core American values are. And it's certainly not subjecting another people to the tyranny and oppression the British forced upon them, when the Minutemen, like the Afghan and Iraqi people rose up in defiance.

I'm optimistic the deprogrammed American people will take their country back from the crooks who hijacked her and destroyed her name. The spirit of 1776 is still in the blood, it just needs to be brought out. Only 3% of the American population under General Washington defeated imperialism then, it will happen again.

Well, the American values back to it's foundation was still democracy and individualism et c. Ofcourse consumerism and globalism hadn't taken place yet, but it's core values I still do not like. I am authoritarian, socialist and a collectivist, the opposite of what the traditional US values are.

They fought against imperialism at first, for their own indepence, to later form an empire themselves. The US has been imperialist/expansionist since it's formation as an independent state. I don't mind imperialism per se, it is only natural to rule over the less fit, for the benefit of your own people. But it is also natural and justified to fight back.

I don't think America will wake up, as the vast majority of Americans are degenerate and brainwashed slaves of modern society, this is also the case of entire humanity. They rule us mentally. If they own our mind, they own our actions. That's why they succeed.

I try to be optimistic but it's hard seeing how decadent modern humanity is. There's no way in hell we'll throw off the schackles of mental imprisonment for a long while.

[Treffie]

All Is Fair In Love And War, but alas, I can't comprehend how this is a real war. We've made things much worse for ourselves.

[Austin]

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you do is sit around and bash America and Jews for all your problems? No wonder you people are treated like crazies, you blame your problems on another country entirely instead of facing your own demons.

It just looks sad and pitiful from an onlookers perspective. If the best European nationalists can do is sit around and scream about evil America then the situation in Europe is far worse than imagined. You have gone beyond attempting to actually remedy your problem and instead resorted to throwing the blame entirely on another nation.

[Harcos]

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you do is sit around and bash America and Jews for all your problems? No wonder you people are treated like crazies, you blame your problems on another country entirely instead of facing your own demons.

It just looks sad and pitiful from an onlookers perspective. If the best European nationalists can do is sit around and scream about evil America then the situation in Europe is far worse than imagined. You have gone beyond attempting to actually remedy your problem and instead resorted to throwing the blame entirely on another nation.

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you do is sit around and bash muslims for all your problems? No wonder you people are treated like crazies, you blame your problems on another people entirely instead of facing your own demons.

It just looks sad and pitiful from an onlookers perspective. If the best American nationalists can do is sit around and scream about evil muslims then the situation in America is far worse than imagined. You have gone beyond attempting to actually remedy your problem and instead resorted to throwing the blame entirely on another people.

[Austin]

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you do is sit around and bash muslims for all your problems? No wonder you people are treated like crazies, you blame your problems on another people entirely instead of facing your own demons.

It just looks sad and pitiful from an onlookers perspective. If the best American nationalists can do is sit around and scream about evil muslims then the situation in America is far worse than imagined. You have gone beyond attempting to actually remedy your problem and instead resorted to throwing the blame entirely on another people.


Oh please you take it in such ignorant partisan terms. I don't care who kills Muslims/Arabs. I am not blaming Muslims for all America's problems or any for that matter, I just have no problem with them being killed.

If Russia invaded Mongolia and started ethnic cleansing I'd be all for it. I care not. It just doesn't trouble me and the fact that it doesn't bothers you.


This is different from you blaming everything, down to Europe's most mundane issues, on America. It is pitiful. I never blamed Muslims, I don't blame them for anything.

[blan]

Do you expect anyone to take you seriously when all you do is sit around and bash America and Jews for all your problems? No wonder you people are treated like crazies, you blame your problems on another country entirely instead of facing your own demons.

It just looks sad and pitiful from an onlookers perspective. If the best European nationalists can do is sit around and scream about evil America then the situation in Europe is far worse than imagined. You have gone beyond attempting to actually remedy your problem and instead resorted to throwing the blame entirely on another nation.

acting as you do in other words. well at least the europeans are not calling for genocide and acting as if another humans life is worth nothing simply because of geographic location and DNA difference.

[Sol Invictus]

I don't blame them for anything.

lol do I really have to extract sentences from past posts of yours? Do yourself a favour and go back and edit them out, or retract this absurd lie lest you make yourself look foolish.

Ah nevermind. Too late.

[blan]

Ummm Europeans are alongside Americans killing Arabs, hate to break that to you guys.

You seem to misunderstand me. I don't nor have I ever blamed 'Muslims' or 'Arabs' for anything. It is natural geopolitical conflict, it is the way of the world. I don't blame them for attacking the West, the West dominates them, it is to be expected.

You seem to take me not having a moral problem with Arabs being killed in their lands as somehow "blaming" them which is not the case. I don't blame them yet I don't care if they die either.

i should have said Canadians because it seems they are the ones who are the ones sending most fire your way on this thread. your statements are those of someone with a abnormal psyche by mainstream western standards.
do not be shocked when people address you in such a hostile manner, it is not in line with our ideals as a culture and it goes against how most of us were raised and our spiritual ideals.
it also reinforces the things that all people outside of european preservationist movements already think about all of us such as (( we are bigots, hate mongers, crazy, anti social, rude, disrespectful, homicidal maniacs.))
me and many other people here wish to disassociate ourselves from people like you. i dont think all of your posts are bad and i am not trying to disrespect you but the statements you make are so far out and kind of sick in my eyes

[The Ripper]

Thing is, when your tax money and your countrymen are killing innocents and wreaking havoc around the world, it isn't called apathy, its called cowardice and lack of spine.

[blan]

What does disturbing have to do with it? Why is it "disturbing", because you deem it that? Why must everything have to meet some idealistic moral standard? Am I not allowed to disavow the pathetic notion of human rights? I disagree with the notion of human rights, I see them as a political weapon nothing more.

Arabs are not the intellectual mage-like Asians. They are not Europeans or their descendants. I don't care about them, they hail from a primitive culture in comparison.

you are now speaking out of ignorance, if you hate arabs and the middle east then fine but do not make up lies to back up your feelings.
ever heard of babylon? it was one of the most advanced civilizations in the world, the first form of recorded music and many other amazing inventions came out of what is now modern Iraq, there are still full caucasians born and raised in Iraq, though many people will protest this statement,
the idea of aryan culture and the aryan race came out of the middle east,
many inventions within the internet as well,

Iraq, known in Classical Antiquity as Mesopotamia, was home to some of the oldest civilizations in the world,[1][2] with a cultural history of over 10,000 years.[3][4] hence its common epithet, the Cradle of Civilization. Mesopotamia, as part of the larger Fertile Crescent, was a significant part of the Ancient Near East throughout the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. Successively ruled by the Assyrian, Medo-Persian, Seleucid and Parthian empires during the Iron Age and Classical Antiquity, Iraq was conquered by the Rashidun Caliphate and became a center of the Islamic Golden Age during the medieval Abbasid Caliphate. After a series of invasions and conquest by the Mongols and Turkmens, Iraq fell under Ottoman rule in the 16th century, intermittently falling under Mamluk and Safavid control.

Ottoman rule ended with World War I, and Iraq came to be administered by the British Empire until the establishment of the Kingdom of Iraq in 1932. The Republic of Iraq was established in 1958 following a coup d'état. The Republic was controlled by Saddam Hussein from 1979 to 2003, into which period falls the Iran-Iraq war and the First Persian Gulf War. Saddam Hussein was deposed in 2003 following the US-led invasion of the country. After the invasion, the situation deteriorated and from 2007 Iraq has been in or on the brink of a state of civil war.

did you know the phonecian people invented an amazing system of maritime navigation, and i was told by a harbor master that it is still used today and has inspired modern day navigation.
learn your history.

[anonymaus]

My meaning is clear in what I said. No need for theatrical rhetoric. :coffee:

Do they have irony in Finland?

[The Ripper]

Do they have irony in Finland?

Would this pass for some kind of humour in America?

[Grumpy Cat]

I injured hand is sore from leaving so many rep points in this thread. :D

[blan]

I injured hand is sore from leaving so many rep points in this thread. :D

certainly not from giving me any :mad:

[Sol Invictus]

Foreign Policy Journal | November 2, 2010

Russia’s internal security service, the FSB, seems to be taking WikiLeaks’ threat to spill dirt on the Kremlin pretty seriously, according to Russia Profile:

Preliminary analysis shows that there is no threat posed to Russia by Julian Assange’s resource. You have to understand that if there is the desire and the right team, it’s possible to shut it down forever,” an expert from the FSB’s Center for Information Security was quoted by Life News as saying on Tuesday.

Links between hacker cells and the FSB made in the past lend credence to this thinly veiled secret services threat. In his recent book on Russia’s secret services, investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov details how the Russian FSB “maintain a sophisticated alliance with unofficial hackers, such as those who carry out cyber attacks on the Web sites of enemies of the state,” drawing attention to hacker forums such as Informacia.ru.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/11/01/russias_fsb_to_wikileaks_we_could_destroy_you