Share your expirience. What usefullness you have from knowing your MT letter?

[Rethel]

Give me the best shout!

[Peterski]

Give me the best shout!

So far, knowing my mtDNA actually turned out to be at least as useful for me as knowing my Y-DNA, because my mtDNA showed up in ancient samples, while my exact subclade of Y-DNA - L617 - so far did not show up in ancient DNA. Only DF27 did, in Bell Beaker culture, but DF27 is for L617 what W is for W6/W6a.

I have W6, it originated in Caucasus, entered the Steppe, and became part of the PIE community:


W6c: Lopatino I, ~3090-2910 BC, Yamnaya culture Russia

W6a: Lopatino II, ~3500-2700 BC, Yamnaya culture Russia

W6a: Esperstedt, ~2566-2477 BC, Corded Ware culture Germany

About W6 and W6a (my W6 is confirmed and all of my matches are W6a, so most likely I'm W6a):


W6 appeared in the area between the Black and Caspian Seas, perhpas in what is now Georgia, 10,000 years ago.

W6c probably originated in Georgia (W6 homeland). Ancestral W6c1 without the 16192 'flip' is found in Georgia.

W6a, with the 8610 coding region mutation, most likely emerged in the Russian steppes.

There are four known ancient samples of W6, including three from Indo-European cultures (listed above). There is also one W6 (but no specific info about its subclade) from a Non-Indo-European context:

W6: Va7, ~5500-4500 BC, Vinča culture Romania

[Rethel]

So far, knowing my mtDNA actually turned out to be at least as useful for me as knowing my Y-DNA,

Can't be the same usefull, becauase has not the same meaning.
You do not have any W6 based ethnicity, tribe or family.
With Y you have.


because my mtDNA showed up in ancient samples, while my exact subclade of Y-DNA - L617 - so far did not show up in ancient DNA. Only DF27 did, in Bell Beaker culture, but DF27 is for L617 what W is for W6/W6a.

Ok, so this is historical ciekawostka, that some gen, which you have was discovered.
But the same can be say about any other gen, like this for green eyes, or short nose.



I have W6, it originated in Caucasus, entered the Steppe, and became part of the PIE community:

As above. And this also can explain, why such or such aDNA component
showed up among IEs, or what was "political" affilietions between tribes.
But it has (very important of course) meaning, but only in the context of
general population, not personal, individual one.


About W6 and W6a (my W6 is confirmed and all of my matches are W6a, so most likely I'm W6a):

And the same can be obviously said, about any other gen.


There are four known ancient samples of W6, including three from Indo-European cultures (listed above). There is also one W6 (but no specific info about its subclade) from a Non-Indo-European context: W6: Va7, ~5500-4500 BC, Vinča culture Romania

And this can be interesting from hobbistic reasons, but as above.

[Rethel]

I repeat my objections from Philip's thread:

Maternal ascendency is not equaly interesting to Y, becasue:

1. There was none and is no maternal lineages.
2. At best, you will know only a letter, which have millions of people.
3. Noone can be even really sure, if it was transmitted from woman to woman.
4. Result has no real meaning, anybody can also compare himself with other people
by the gen for hair colour or by gen for the big toe, and it will be exactly the same.
5. If someone is really interested in the letter - can do it, but it is
really nothing more, than a letter, which could be, and probably
was at least once if not much more times, transmitted via males.

And... no sane person want to be as his granny.
Noone. If want to, he it is either a fag or trans. :laugh:

And women - do not want to have a lineage.

[Rethel]

W6: Va7, ~5500-4500 BC, Vinča culture Romania

Rumun! :p

[Peterski]

MtDNA is always transmitted from mother to children. It can't be transmitted via males.


Rumun! :p

Taki ze mnie Rumun, jak z Ciebie Niemiec. :laugh:

[Mikula]

When I read the book of Brian Sykes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Daughters_of_Eve), I decided to know to which mtDNA haplogroup I belong.

As a genealogist I can say that most people usually starts the researching in ancestral line of the father, but
line of the mother is postponed for next time - and mostly is searched just line of her father.
Nevertheless the mentioned mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) is inherited in maternal line only, it means that
in each generation of ancestors is changed its lastname. It is a challenge for each researcher :)

- My mtDNA belongs to very rare group (haplogroup V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_V_(mtDNA))).
One is found in approximately 4% of native Europeans, only.


My grandmother Marie nee Vaněrka (mother of my mother) was born in 1918 in the town of Olešnice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole%C5%A1nice_(Blansko_District)), Moravia.
At the picture are written data of her matrilineal ancestors, and at the map are spotted places,
where they lived. I have found next 9 generations of them.
Ones let me to the town of Bystré (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystr%C3%A9_(Svitavy_District)), Bohemia, located very close to the Moravian town of Olešnice.
Now I know that my ancestors wre not only the Movians and Silesians but also Bohemians.
And they came from both: Czech speaking and German speaking towns and villages.
http://mageo.cz/home/MYTHAGO/00.JPG

[Rethel]

MtDNA is always transmitted from mother to children. It can't be transmitted via males.

Can be, it is rare, but exists.
And in addition a one familiar
genetist did assure me about
it couple of years ago, so the
more I refused to do this test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternal_mtDNA_transmission

If you belive in those hundrets of thousands
of years, then it happened many times.


Taki ze mnie Rumun, jak z Ciebie Niemiec. :laugh:

:mad:

Uważaj na najbliższą krzyżacką zawieruchę! :laugh:

[Peterski]

Can be, it is rarely, be exists.
And one of familiar genetics
assured me in addition couple
of years ago, so the more I
did refuse to do this test.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternal_mtDNA_transmission

If you belive in those hundrets of thousands
of years, then it happened many times.

Y-DNA can also be transmitted from someone else: :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event

[Mikula]

Perhaps the question could be:
Why the Sir Rethel who is so proude for his pateR1nal line, is afraid to know something more about the heritage what he received from his mother?

[Rethel]

When I read the book of Brian Sykes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Daughters_of_Eve), I decided to know to which mtDNA haplogroup I belong.

When I read 12 years ago an article about 7 mothers
of Europe it influenced me, but because I created an
idea about paternaly genetic checking another dozen
years earlier, so I checked the possiblity to make this,
and for my hapiness, it was a reality so I did this more
important test, lefting mt for near future. But since the
beginning, I suspected, that exept those points on the
map there is nothing more, but with time, I got to know
more, and the less this test became relevant, so, I am
not doing this, and am not going to at now.


As a genealogist I can say that most people usually starts the researching in ancestral line of the father, but
line of the mother is postponed for next time - and mostly is searched just line of her father.

Is searched as all ascendants - or maybe you have in mind
family and lineage of the m-grandpa, then it is also Y stuff
of close relative, but different.

There is no practical matriline almost in whole Europe, and
even if you want to recreate it, you can ussually go as far
as couple generations, not bind together anyway.


Nevertheless the mentioned mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) is inherited in maternal line only, it means that
in each generation of ancestors is changed its lastname. It is a challenge for each researcher :)

So you see.


My grandmother Marie nee Vaněrka (mother of my mother) was born in 1918 in the town of

I have 6 generations back, and for now it is enaugh.
But searching for ascendants after the closest generations
is pointless and boring, especially, when you are becoming
aware, that all of these are totally foreign people to each
other, not even related to ech other in any way. I did it
from boringness, and still, nothing speciall...


http://mageo.cz/home/MYTHAGO/00.JPG

Many Teutonesses detected :)

[Rethel]

Y-DNA can also be transmitted from someone else: :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event

Yea, and this is m.in. one of main reasons,
why this is very important and relevant test!

[Tschaikisten]

Mtdna sucks. Who d fuck cares about maternal maternal maternal line.

[Mikula]

To Rethel: I do not agree, but thank you for you viewpoint

[Era]

I found out I am U4b1. The earliest known sample is in Sweden 7500 years ago. Looking at this and other Albanians mtdna (mostly Us and Hs), convinced me EV13 is not neolithic.

[Peterski]

Yea, and this is m.in. one of main reasons,
why this is very important and relevant test!

But you need to find where is your ancestor from year 1300 AD buried, and test his Y-DNA.

What if it turns out that your genealogical ancestor from the 1300s was not R1a-M458*?

At some point, for example in the 1400s or the 1500s, there could be an NPE in the family.

[Rethel]

Why the Sir Rethel who is so proude for his pateR1nal line, is afraid to know something more about the heritage what he received from his mother?

The heritage from my mother was not a mt from paleolithic, becasue she
belonged to family of her father, and I did not inherited any of heritage
of my m-grandfather, becasue it is not my rod. Maybe some behaviours,
customs, which I am not even aware of, casue I used to them, are, and
which my mother did introduce to our family, as was in every generations,
but it not means, that I do have something common with some woman living
4000 years ago in pacyfic islands, becasue at that time, such ascendants
and "heritages" at that time I (the same as you) have 1,461,501,637,330,
902,918,203,684,832,716,283,019,655,932,542,976 and if you belive, that
it was 20,000 years ago then statistically this number of your equally important
heritages will be as much as: 6,668,014,432,879, 854,274,079,851,790,721,257,
797,144,758,322,315,908,160,396,257,811,764,037,23 7,817,632,071, 521, 432,
200,871,554,290,742,929,910,593,433,240,445,888,80 1,654,119,365,080,363,
356,052,330,830,046,095,157,579,514,014,558,463,07 8,285,911,814,024,728,
965,016,135,886,601,981,690,748,037,476,461,291,16 3,877,376 - so, frankly
saying, almost every single human being living on earth in the period since 1000
years ago into begining of humankind. Do you respect and cultivate every single
heritage which you have from this people? No? Why? :blink:

[Peterski]

Because you wrote that you traced your paternal line back to around 1300:


Niom, tylko znowu: nie o całym klasterze mowa w Niemczech (czy wciąż całkiem hipotetycznych
Włoszech) a o ludziach (tudzież jednym człowieku) tuż sprzed 1300 roku - powiedzmy.

As for this:


so frankly saying, almost every single human being in since 1000 years ago into begining of humankind.

Wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse

[Mikula]

Mater semper certa est (pater semper incertus est)
;)

[Rethel]

To Rethel: I do not agree, but thank you for you viewpoint

Becasue it is your profession, so you have to :p

[Rethel]

Mater semper certa est (pater semper incertus est)
;)

Are you a slave, mamzer or bastard, which fathers are not known?

No. So, why do you mention this? :picard2:

Free and legitimite people live quite differently.

Genus matris non vocatur genus.

[Rethel]

But you need to find where is your ancestor from year 1300 AD buried, and test his Y-DNA.

What if it turns out that your genealogical ancestor from the 1300s was not R1a-M458*?

Of course, it could be like that.

What then? Then I will be not from "those", but from "ours" (as always btw :) )
but becasue we have new beginning in Poland, and different orthography, so,
it would be not so big problem. And if real ancestor would be known, then he
would be added to the tree, not the false one. That's all.

Complications usually are after origin or last suborigin, but it can be resolved also.
Zoba se na Czartoryskich i ich rodowód w bazie ZSzP.

[Rethel]

Because you wrote that you traced your paternal line back to around 1300:

Słowo "powiedzmy" ominąłeś :) Bo jeśli teoria jest słuszna, to wspólny przodek
wszystkich po obu stronach granicy powinien żyć co najmniej przed 1300. Ten
do którego da się cofnąć w Polsce jest w wieku Zbyszka lub Maćka z Bogdańca,
a więc urodził się w ostatniej ćwierci lub połowie XIV wieku.



Wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse

I know, but it is not wrong, it is statistically correct.
The point is, that even if it would be 1000 or 10 lines
of ascendants, they are not all equaly relevant.

I used even to have some time ago in signature on
one relevant forum: Egalitaryzmowi ascendentów
(czy przodków/wstępnych) stanowcze NIE! :)

[Peterski]

Now I know that my ancestors wre not only the Movians and Silesians but also Bohemians.

Delete this, as FAST as possible! Before Magnolia can read this... :scared:

[Rethel]

From practical point of view also it must be taken unto account, that women can
give birth to not their own eggish children, with different mt, men cannot do that.
Woman play the role of incubator, and whatever she delivers, she will be a mother
of. Russians have a very good name for children for one mother and one father.
From one father brothers are one-blooded, but childnren from same mother are
only one-wombed. Substance vs. place. Subctance is more important than place.

[Mikula]

Are you a slave, mamzer or bastard, which fathers are not known?

No. So, why do you mention this? :picard2:

Free and legitimite people live quite differently.

Genus matris non vocatur genus.

Why you argue ad hominem?
I am a son of my father, of course.
I know names of my paternal ancestors back to early 1600s.
But during the 4 centuries (or sooner) could happen that some child had another father than the one who married her mother,
for various reasons, not only the infidelity but for example raping by enemy soldiers, etc.
When you are checking data of your maternal ancestors, you has always 100% of certainty, that she was your real great...grandmother.
The level of certainty in paternal line simply cannot compete with maternal line.

[Rethel]

Why you argue ad hominem?

What ad hominem? It is rethorical. Equivalent of: you
are not a son of x, y, z so why you did mention this.


But during the 4 centuries (or sooner) could happen that some child had another father than the one who married her mother,
for various reasons, not only the infidelity but for example raping by enemy soldiers, etc.

Yes, it could be, so test your relatives from
common ancestor in XVII or XVIII century.


When you are checking data of your maternal ancestors, you has always 100% of certainty, that she was your real great...grandmother.

No, you do not have.
Forgeries in documentation happend also,
some adopted children could be written as
her own, some were born for other person
(becasue wife could not have children, so
they payed a servant girl for birthing his
child which was formaly of his wife), aso...


The level of certainty in paternal line simply cannot compete with maternal line.

Even if, then what? It is not about probability of certaintity.

[Mikula]

To be honest, I still cannot get what is so big diffrence between the desirre to know haplogroup of my Y-DNA and the desire to know haplogroup of my mtDNA.
I like both of my parents, father and mother.
Some people wish to know both lines, some just the paternal line, most of people dont care about any.
I dont judge any of them - it is their choice.

[Rethel]

When you are checking data of your maternal ancestors, you has always 100% of certainty, that she was your real great...grandmother.
The level of certainty in paternal line simply cannot compete with maternal line.

And if the line is so certain, as you said - why to do the test?
It is pointless, becasue the line is certain.


To be honest, I still cannot get what is so big diffrence between the desirre to know haplogroup of my Y-DNA and the desire to know haplogroup of my mtDNA.

I did explain it at the begining.
You can have desire, you can fullfill that disire, noone is saying, you can;t.
But there are buts. :)


I like both of my parents, father and mother.

I am glad to hear it :)


Some people wish to know both lines, some just the paternal line, most of people dont care about any.

There is no "both lines", there is no matri line at all.


I dont judge any of them - it is their choice.

So you don't care. If you don't care, you do not understand.
If you do not undertand importance, you shouldn;t do what
you do, or at least not describing to people what is important
and what is not. I now genealogists, who are making more
harm, than good. Not becasue they falsify the genealogies,
no. The biggest figure in genealogical world, the biggest harm
is he doing. In genetics the same role play mt & automalists.

Sorry, but it looks like that.

[Rethel]

Another reason, why mt is not important :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y77WJG5qjU

[Mikula]

I did not write about my clients but generally about the people.
Nevertheless, the clients wish to know their paternal line usually.
Only 2 times I was asked to do the maternal line, because they wished to know data what correspond with the results of their mtDNA.
Perhaps I am actually impercipient, but how you can write that matriline does not exist?
Perhaps one is not important for you but how can be non-existing?
If your mother exists, existed her mother, also her mother, etc., and all of the women makes some kind of ancestral line.

Dobra noc!

[Rethel]

I did not write about my clients but generally about the people.
Nevertheless, the clients wish to know their paternal line usually.

And now ask yourself why? Becasue people have an instinct
which tells them what is important. Until autosomalist came
(or genealogist of EEEEEVRYYRTHIING) and will break him. :pout:


Only 2 times I was asked to do the maternal line, because they wished to know data what correspond with the results of their mtDNA.

So you see yourself.
Exeption proves the rule.


Perhaps I am actually impercipient, but how you can write that matriline does not exist?

Normaly. There is nothing, what bind it together. Such
line has no name, nor tradition, no solidarity, nor idea
about common origin, no structure, no reason, no nest,
and no judical or financial inheridable at least historical
structure, nor inheritance, no coat of arms, no slogan,
no motto, no logo, no common identity, no purpose, no
planning, no even has an instinct of feeling of such need
to have such things - so logically there is no line.


Perhaps one is not important for you but how can be non-existing?

For me, existing of Przemislovci can be not important,
but my feeling about them does not change the fact,
that they existed... And on the other hand, it can be
important for me, that all women which I found in the
genealogical records, and which all came down from a
one ancestor, can be important from the (known only
to me) reason and feelings, but it doesn't mean, that
such group of people and lines exist - it is only my own
feeling about these things, not a real matter.


If your mother exists, existed her mother, also her mother, etc., and all of the women makes some kind of ancestral line.

No, they do not. They do not even make four-five
generational entity or tradition, not even two-three
generational (exept personal feelings), and everybody
in your line, which you presented belonged to different
families. Every third or fourth woman did not even know
about existence of others, and did not even feel some
theoretical solidarity or mistical common identity.

Why?

Becasue women are different, they don;t care, and they
do not do such things, they will always follow the men.
Even feminists.

And very good! they do not have to be like men, becasue
they are different, have their own values, way of thinking,
they value different things & differently deal with problems.

Look, how many fictional problems did you create by putting
them into male frames, and expecting, that they act the same,
knowing exectly, that it is not truth, neither historicly, neither
genealogicaly, neither practicaly.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

MTDNA shows I am directly descended from the original people of Americas. And my subclade is most common for my ethnic group. MY ydna on other hand is more vague. Subclade at acertain point is Rare but also vague. Only thing I can conclude is that most of the people within my haplogroup subclade at a certain point were probably cardium pottery culture during neolithic Europe and most of the of the cousin lineages were from italy and sardinia. The closest Ydna to me discovered is from Rise408 ancient armenia but its 1 mutation from me

My MTDNA actually gave me more clarity than my Ydna.

[Damião de Góis]

In my case not too much. J1c"X" is pretty bland.

[knowledge is king]

Subscribed.

[Rethel]

Bump,
maybe someone made a progress... :laugh:

[Peterski]

Rethel you should get some balls and order an autosomal DNA test.

I saw people who score 30% or more Eskimo and still look very Mazovian. :)

So you can't be sure how Inuit/Eskimo you are until you order a test.

[Peterski]

As for the usefuleness of my mtDNA test. I learned a lot about being W.

For example - the family of Jesus belonged to mtDNA haplogroup W: :)

http://www.thecid.com/#ancient


Results from the Tomb of the Shroud in Israel (originally purported to be the family of Jesus) date to the first century AD and are believed to be W

[Rethel]

Rethel you should get some balls and order an autosomal DNA test.

I saw people who score 30% or more Eskimo and still look very Mazovian. :)

So you can't be sure how Inuit/Eskimo you are until you order a test.

I can have even 30% of pygmy intestils - it doesn't bother me at all.

Bebechy ni flaki are not me, especially, if they are divided in some percentages.

And btw, autosomally, I have only 12.5% of (western) Masovian tripe...

[Peterski]

I can have even 30% of pygmy

Rethel but what if it turns out that you have 10% of Jewish admixture? :)

[Rethel]

Rethel you should get some balls and order an autosomal DNA test.

The Real Balls (not only some as you said) have those who know
and value their Y, and can resist mtDNA-bullshit and auDNA-sorcery
which is attacking them from every side, outside and inside.

[Peterski]

Real balls have those who know their Y, and can resist mt and
au bullshit attacking them from every side, outside and inside.

No, they have only one ball. :) If you order also at + mt you get two balls.

[Rethel]

For example - the family of Jesus belonged to mtDNA haplogroup W: :)

Are you now a jeW? :laugh:

Unfortunatly, even if it would be true, then exact family of Jesus is
the best proof, that there is no use and value of mt at all. Read the
Book of the Genealogy of Jesus. Read The Gospel. The Mary is bearly
mentioned, and everything what is said about her, is this, that she
was the wife of Joseph of Nazareth. It is not even known, who she
was - generally, she was a universal member of female collective
belonging to the Y-lineage's house of her husband.

You sank yourself right now... :laugh:

[Rethel]

Rethel but what if it turns out that you have 10% of Jewish admixture? :)

I would be proud of it the same way, as I would be about 10% of pygmy,
english, aynu, finchurian or whatever admixture - i.e. I would not care too
much... But if I would have 10% ashkenazi au, it should be nice - at least
this component can bear more inteligence for furture generations and can/
would increase my polish component. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208865-SHOCKING-TRUTH-about-the-one-of-greatest-Poland-s-achievments-which-you-probably-don-t-know-about!) :laugh:

[Hadouken]

zero . absolutely zero

cant do anything with it . would have been the same as if never found it out

[Rethel]

No, they have only one ball. :) If you order also at + mt you get two balls.

Rather ovary... :heh:

[Petalpusher]

As much as the Y :whistle:

[Rethel]

As much as the Y :whistle:

Either you troll, either you have no idea what you are talking about, Tertium non datur.

[Petalpusher]

Either you troll, either you have no idea what you are talking about, Tertium non datur.

Im sharing my experience, as much signifiance in both cases, one distant grandmother, one distant grandfather.

[Rethel]

But distant granfather made you IE, and Italo-Celtic, and gave
you langues, and identity aso in unbroken line of succecion.

Distand Grandmother didnt care so much... actually, she either
was bought on the market, or, if she was not, she happily shared
her husbands identity... and so 200 times (in your belife system
20000 times of changes).