GDP PPP per capita 2017 WE vs. EE

[Magnolia]

http://i.imgur.com/DBeqCMy.jpg
GDP PPP per capita 2017 (estimates by IMF)


What do you think?

[Herr Abubu]

That these economic measures are dangerously misleading. Don't look too much into it.

[propolis]

GDP as a false measure of a country economic output-LINK (http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Financial_skeptic/Casino_capitalism/Number_racket/gdp_is_a_questionable_measure_of_economic_growth.s html)
Can countries fake their GNP/GDP? (https://www.quora.com/Can-countries-fake-their-GNP-GDP)
GDP of Eastern European countries depends on foreign investors who transfered their business searching for low paid workers in Eastern Europe.

[Magnolia]

GDP as a false measure of a country economic output-LINK (http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/Financial_skeptic/Casino_capitalism/Number_racket/gdp_is_a_questionable_measure_of_economic_growth.s html)
Can countries fake their GNP/GDP? (https://www.quora.com/Can-countries-fake-their-GNP-GDP)
GDP of Eastern European countries depends on foreign investors who transfered their business searching for low paid workers in Eastern Europe.

And? It is a common investor's strategy...

[Costas]

Clear divide.

Slovenia and Czechia seem to be catching up with Italy and Spain though, that's interesting.

I'm always surprised by how poor Moldova is.

Like in South America we always talk about how poor Bolivia is but then Moldova is even poorer.. that's shocking.

[Dandelion]

Clear divide.

Slovenia and Czechia seem to be catching up with Italy and Spain though, that's interesting.

I'm always surprised by how poor Moldova is.

Like in South America we always talk about how poor Bolivia is but then Moldova is even poorer.. that's shocking.

And I'm surprised by how rich Ireland seems to be.

[Magnolia]

And I'm surprised by how rich Ireland seems to be.

You're right.
Is there a fault?

[щрбл]

I believe that communists aren't human. :rolleyes:

[Costas]

And I'm surprised by how rich Ireland seems to be.

Oh I think they embraced free-market a lot more than most European countries and that helped them get a lot of investment.

[Amor Vincit Omnia]

Map of sovereign states in Europe by GDP per capita based on international dollars (PPP) 2015 from the World Bank


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_pe r_capita

Luxembourg 101,926 $
Moldova 5 038$

[Magnolia]

About Ireland I've found this on reddit


[–]Sloveniapetardik 53 bodů před 11 dnů
Ireland is totally legit.

[–]BulgariaZmeiOtPirin 30 bodů před 11 dnů
Eurostat:
Although GDP per capita is an important and widely used indicator of countries’ level of economic welfare, consumption per capita may be more useful for comparing the relative welfare of consumers across various countries.
AIC per capita is usually highly correlated with GDP per capita, because AIC is, in practice, by far the biggest expenditure component of GDP.
In this metric Ireland scores 96% of the EU average.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7771976/2-13122016-BP-EN.pdf/2e741df1-4247-4511-8b2b-51631f257f83

[–]IrelandBusyPedro 8 bodů před 11 dnů*
IMO it's better to use GNP, since AIC assumes increased consumption = increased welfare which does not account for cultural difference with regard to the importance of consumption.

[–]Chutiyapaconnoisseur 2 body před 11 dnů
account for cultural difference with regard to the importance of consumption.
If that was true, then we'd see the Irish have a larger savings ratio. We don't.
World Bank Data
Notice that the huge jump for Ireland from 2014 to 2015 is related to the 25% growth rate which was driven by corporate inversions. So, it's really 2014 data which is relevant. You guys don't save more than wealthier countries. So consumption is a more relevant metric than GDP per capita for underlying material standard.

načíst další komentáře (1 odpověď)
[–]IrelandRazWud_Thugz 2 body před 11 dnů
GNP is now as useless as GDP is for Ireland
trvalý odkazembednadřazený
[–]IrelandBusyPedro 2 body před 11 dnů
Y?
trvalý odkazembednadřazený
[–]Kongeriget Danmarkaveragemonkey 7 bodů před 11 dnů
Y?
It's funny because Y is the variable for production/income.

[–]Chutiyapaconnoisseur 6 bodů před 11 dnů
Because GNI(or GNP) also grew by over 20% in 2015. Actual consumption is a better predictor of underlying well-being. That is a well-known fact in poverty economics.

[–]Sweden (Raised in the UK)English-Breakfast 28 bodů před 11 dnů
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, Ireland is doing well...but you know the number is skewed when they have a higher GDP per capita than Norway or Switzerland.

[–]EuropeEwannnn 12 bodů před 11 dnů
For reference Irish GDP Per capita between 2005 and 2013 was around $44-48k. In 2014 it was $52k, 2015 $66k, 2016 $69k. It's due to be $85k by 2021. 2015 seems to be the year when things went a bit loopy.
Source.

[–]Chutiyapaconnoisseur 2 body před 11 dnů
2015 seems to be the year when things went a bit loopy.
The year when it grew over 25% in a single year. So, yeah. As /u/ZmeiOtPirin pointed out, Average Individual Consumption is a better measure of true well-being and Ireland is around middle-of-the-pack in that regard. AIC probably grew quite rapidly in 2016, so I'd guess the Irish are close to the 100 median mark.

[Amor Vincit Omnia]

List of European countries by average wage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

This is a map and list of countries containing monthly (annual divided by 12 months) gross and net income (after taxes) average wages in Europe in their local currency and in euros. The chart below reflects the average (mean) wage as reported by various data providers.

fuc*** swiss :icon_biggrin: 5040 Euro a month average wage ( net income ...taxes payed )

[Magnolia]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ef/e9/61/efe96116bd5126d655fc23ae2f0b108b.jpg

[Magnolia]

fuc*** swiss :icon_biggrin: 5040 Euro a month average wage ( net income ...taxes payed )

Come on they stole Jewish gold and still live from it. How they can even sleep well...

[Amor Vincit Omnia]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ef/e9/61/efe96116bd5126d655fc23ae2f0b108b.jpg

Swiss 221 :rotfl:

[Not a Cop]

Oh I think they embraced free-market a lot more than most European countries and that helped them get a lot of investment.

Bu-bble, bubble.

[propolis]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ef/e9/61/efe96116bd5126d655fc23ae2f0b108b.jpg

I doubt that statistic is true.
According to this link-Average monthly rental cost for apartments in various European cities in 2015 (in U.S. dollars) (https://www.statista.com/statistics/503274/average-rental-cost-apartment-europe/), average rent in Warsaw is about 850 dollars. Average rent in Prague is 540 dollars. It means average rent is more than half of your average monthly wage (around 750 euros).

Comparative prices in various European countries:
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/5/5e/Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC.png/380px-Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC.png

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/5/55/Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC1.png/425px-Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC1.png

[Magnolia]

I doubt that statistic is true.
According to this link-Average monthly rental cost for apartments in various European cities in 2015 (in U.S. dollars) (https://www.statista.com/statistics/503274/average-rental-cost-apartment-europe/), average rent in Warsaw is about 850 dollars. Average rent in Prague is 540 dollars. It means average rent is more than half of your average monthly wage (around 750 euroes).

Comparative prices in various European countries:
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/5/5e/Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC.png/380px-Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC.png

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/5/55/Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC1.png/425px-Price_level_index_for_4_groups_of_goods_and_servic es%2C_2015%2C_EU-28%3D100DEC1.png

You can't think about it that way. People in capital cities usually earn more money than an average income is and of course rents are higher in capitals....

[Magnolia]

btw. it is always better to speak about median than average when it goes about income...
http://i.imgur.com/HbC9GSX.jpg
Median income per capita in Europe (PPP adjusted)

[Costas]

Bu-bble, bubble.

Yeah it's weird they grew 25% in 2015

[propolis]

btw. it is always better to speak about median than average when it goes about income...
http://i.imgur.com/HbC9GSX.jpg
Median income per capita in Europe (PPP adjusted)

:icon_rolleyes:
GDP per capita (what you posted in the first post) has nothing to do with yearly salary - income (what you posted in the last post). By the way, that map you posted is based on very outdated or wrong data.
GDP should be market value of all final goods and services produced in a period. The figures could be easily manipulated and widely distorted for political or other reasons or simply using wrong methods of calculations. As I said, it has nothing to do with monthly/yearly salaries.
Also, salaries should be compared with prices, rents, etc. to get the real buying power of an employed worker.

[Grace O'Malley]

And I'm surprised by how rich Ireland seems to be.

The have one of the most open economies in the world. They are also English speaking and get a lot of companies and investment from places like the US.

http://www.usfunds.com/media/images/investor-alert/_2016/2016-09-02/COMM-Ireland-Most-Favored-Nation-US-Foreign-Direct-Investment-2008-2014-09022016-LG.png

Not sure how the change of government in the US and Brexit will affect Ireland. They are both worrying as far as Ireland is concerned. Trump does have a big golfing complex in the west of Ireland though.

He is planning to build a wall here. :picard1:

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/12/07/10/trump-golf-course-ireland.jpg
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2016/12/07/10/trump-golf-course-ireland2.jpg

Kind of a blight on the natural landscape but that's progress for you.

https://www.trumphotels.com/uploads/7167/16/arial.jpg

[Ujku]

I didn't know that Ireland was so rich.

[Philip Latinowitz]

According to this statistics, worst off economically are fake creations like Moldova, Bosnia, FYROM, and Ukraine. Not suprising. And a good lesson for the future.

[Petalpusher]

Map of sovereign states in Europe by GDP per capita based on international dollars (PPP) 2015 from the World Bank


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_pe r_capita

Luxembourg 101,926 $
Moldova 5 038$

Amateurs.

The GDP PPP per land area of Monaco is 3.11 ( billions of $ per square kilometer) with a global rank of 1.

[Magnolia]

:icon_rolleyes:
GDP per capita (what you posted in the first post) has nothing to do with yearly salary - income (what you posted in the last post). By the way, that map you posted is based on very outdated or wrong data.
GDP should be market value of all final goods and services produced in a period. The figures could be easily manipulated and widely distorted for political or other reasons or simply using wrong methods of calculations. As I said, it has nothing to do with monthly/yearly salaries.
Also, salaries should be compared with prices, rents, etc. to get the real buying power of an employed worker.

:-)
It was Omnia Vincit Amor who started posting other economic indicators I continued with it. And yes everything is related to everything.
GDP PPP is not a perfect index but it is easy for assessment. Indeed it has some explanatory value when comparing countries together.

[propolis]

You can't think about it that way. People in capital cities usually earn more money than an average income is and of course rents are higher in capitals....

So if you have an average monthly rent of 540 euros, you should add average monthly bill for electricity, gas, water, etc. (around 80 euros), so you can conclude that the average citizen of your country spends 80% of salary for housing each month.


:-)
It was Omnia Vincit Amor who started posting other economic indicators I continued with it. And yes everything is related to everything.
GDP PPP is not a perfect index but it is easy for assessment. Indeed it has some explanatory value when comparing countries together.

What you posted is not economic indicators, but some silly maps. Look at the map of supposed purchasing power you posted. You really think that Kosovo has a higher standard of living than Russia, Hungary and many other countries???

[Magnolia]

So if you have an average monthly rent of 540 euros, you should add average monthly bill for electricity, gas, water, etc. (around 80 euros), so you can conclude that the average citizen of your country spends 80% of salary for housing each month.
- as I said before; in Prague people earn more money than an average wage is and rents are of course higher. In smaller cities (towns) rents are 1/2 or even 1/3 of the Prague's average (for example in Liberec 252 euros).
- it is good to notice that it is normal here to have own house/flat - so you don't have to rent it..


What you posted is not economic indicators, but some silly maps. Look at the map of supposed purchasing power you posted. You really think that Kosovo has a higher standard of living than Russia, Hungary and many other countries???
So you want to tell me that a map can't have the same informative value as a tab, right?

The map you are talking about is "Local Purchasing Power" not a standard of living...


Who you are (What was your last nickname)? Why are you so butthurt? Where are you from?

[propolis]

- as I said before; in Prague people earn more money than an average wage is and rents are of course higher. In smaller cities (towns) rents are 1/2 or even 1/3 of the Prague's average (for example in Liberec 252 euros).
- it is good to notice that it is normal here to have own house/flat - so you don't have to rent it..

So you want to tell me that a map can't have the same informative value as a tab, right?

The map you are talking about is "Local Purchasing Power" not a standard of living...

Who you are (What was your last nickname)? Why are you so butthurt? Where are you from?

The percentage of owner occupied flats/houses were 47% in 2001. Today, probably even less. It is normal for young couples to rent or buy flat/houses if they don't want to live with their parents, so it means they must pay rent or mortgage payment. You are the one who posted maps of supposed 'purchasing power', so if you want to discuss it, you must know what affects purchasing power. Stick to the topic and refrain from ad hominem attacks such as "why you are so butthurt" (usual tactic of those who are not capable of having a civilized discussion). Who I am is totally unimportant to you. I could be from the planet Mars. It will not change anything.

[Cristiano viejo]

Clear divide.

Slovenia and Czechia seem to be catching up with Italy and Spain though, that's interesting.

I'm always surprised by how poor Moldova is.

Like in South America we always talk about how poor Bolivia is but then Moldova is even poorer.. that's shocking.

Slovenia and Czechia are Third World compared with Spain and Italy.

[Magnolia]

The percentage of owner occupied flats/houses were 47% in 2001. Today, probably even less. It is normal for young couples to rent or buy flat/houses if they don't want to live with their parents, so it means they must pay rent or mortgage payment. You are the one who posted maps of supposed 'purchasing power', so if you want to discuss it, you must know what affects purchasing power. Stick to the topic and refrain from ad hominem attacks such as "why you are so butthurt" (usual tactic of those who are not capable of having a civilized discussion). Who I am is totally unimportant to you. I could be from the planet Mars. It will not change anything.

Why this speech? I gave you an information that your thinking is wrong. An average wage in Prague =/= an average wage in Czech R. And an average rent in Prague =/= an average rent in the rest of the country ...
You keep talking your nonsense. WTF?
Do you know why I asked you where you were from?
You came here with "GDP says nothing", continued with that rent nonsense...

They are two possibilities:
- you are from WE and you are don't want to accept that the economical situation in EE improves
- you are from a poor EE country...

So how is it?

[Magnolia]

Slovenia and Czechia are Third World compared with Spain and Italy.

Cristiano, honey you have never been there. You are one of those who don't want to accept that EE is not what it used to be.
Do you for example know that there are plenty of Spanish people for working reasons here?

[Cristiano viejo]

Cristiano, honey you have never been there. You are one of those who don't want to accept that EE is not what it used to be.
Do you for example know that there are plenty of Spanish people for working reasons here?

No no, I do know very well that some Eastern countries are improving, Czechia for example, or Croatia or Slovenia. And I am happy with this, since I like these countries.
But girl... how could we compare it with Spain or Italy??

[Petalpusher]

So what's the trend ,EE women are still gonna be cheap or not?

[Dandelion]

So what's the trend ,EE women are still gonna be cheap or not?

You will have to go to Moldova in the future for that. Czechia already is off limits and will soon be as expensive as visiting a prostitute in France.

[propolis]

Why this speech? I gave you an information that your thinking is wrong. An average wage in Prague =/= an average wage in Czech R. And an average rent in Prague =/= an average rent in the rest of the country ...
You keep talking your nonsense. WTF?
Do you know why I asked you where you were from?
You came here with "GDP says nothing", continued with that rent nonsense...

They are two possibilities:
- you are from WE and you are don't want to accept that the economical situation in EE improves
- you are from a poor EE country...

So how is it?

:picard2:

I am from Africa, more precisely Swaziland.

[Magnolia]

No no, I do know very well that some Eastern countries are improving, Czechia for example, or Croatia or Slovenia. And I am happy with this, since I like these countries.
But girl... how could we compare it with Spain or Italy??

what do you want to hear?
I met a friend of mine a few days ago. She was at Erasmus in Malta. If you think she came back with an impression that the standard of living is much higher than in the CzechR you will be wrong. No water, no shops, but a lovely climate of course...

[Magnolia]

:picard2:

I am from Africa, more precisely Swaziland.

good I am from Bhutan. Good to see that we both know the economical situation in Europe/Czech R. very well.

[Cristiano viejo]

what do you want to hear?
I met a friend of mine a few days ago. She was at Erasmus in Malta. If you think she came back with an impression that the standard of living is much higher than in the CzechR you will be wrong. No water, no shops, but a lovely climate of course...

Last time I checked it Malta was not Spain nor Italy...

[Magnolia]

Last time I checked it Malta was not Spain nor Italy...

So do you want to tell me that there is a huge difference between standard of living in Malta and in Italy or Spain?

[Cristiano viejo]

So do you want to tell me that there is a huge difference between standard of living in Malta and in Italy or Spain?

Probably. As yourself have said, no water, no shops. Do you think there are no water or shops in Italy and Spain?

[Magnolia]

Probably. As yourself have said, no water, no shops. Do you think there are no water or shops in Italy and Spain?

Of course not.
But it doesn't mean that the rest is not on the "same" level....

Christiano, you don't understand me - Spain, Italy, Portugal will be always different from EE countries because it has different climate, different culture, etc. But What concerns the household's economic situation...

[Cristiano viejo]

Of course not.
But it doesn't mean that the rest is not on the "same" level....

Christiano, you don't understand me - Spain, Italy, Portugal will be always different from EE countries because it has different climate, different culture, etc. But What concerns the household's economic situation...
Look wages and this conversation will be finished.

[Magnolia]

Look wages and this conversation will be finished.

Look at costs of living...

[щрбл]

The engineers in the czech branch of the company I work in are paid between 2,5 and 3000 euros per month. (after conversion) Draw your own conclusions. :rolleyes:

[Cristiano viejo]

Look at costs of living...

Wages along costs of living = rich country.
Which is your wage, Magnolia? I earn near 1.500 €/month.
Perhaps 500, with luck?

[щрбл]

Wages along costs of living = rich country.
Which is your wage, Magnolia? I earn near 1.500 €/month.
Perhaps 500, with luck?

What do you do for living?

[Cristiano viejo]

What do you do for living?

Nothing special. It is the normal wage for millions of Spaniards.

[IvanchoIotata]

Nothing special. It is the normal wage for millions of Spaniards.

In Sofia many people earn as much, including myself.

[Cristiano viejo]

In Sofia many people earn as much, including myself.

1.500€ in Sofia? well, I talk of regular people, not politicians, footballers, actors or so. In Sofia a firefighter, a taxi driver, a civil servant earns that wage??

[Magnolia]

del

[IvanchoIotata]

1.500€ in Sofia? well, I talk of regular people, not politicians, footballers, actors or so. In Sofia a firefighter, a taxi driver, a civil servant earns that wage??

I talk about regular people, not from every profession of course.

[щрбл]

In Sofia many people earn as much, including myself.

Depends on the field. :)

[Cristiano viejo]

come


I talk about regular people, not from every profession of course.

For both
List of European countries by average wage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Czechia 750 €
Bulgaria 406€
Spain 1.718€

Is this false or how.

[Magnolia]

For both
List of European countries by average wage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Czechia 750 €
Bulgaria 406€
Spain 1.718€

Is this false or how.

why did you quote it when I asked you not to do it?

An average income =/= an median income.

[IvanchoIotata]

For both
List of European countries by average wage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

Czechia 750 €
Bulgaria 406€
Spain 1.718€

Is this false or how.

What I said applies only to Sofia and it's only people in certain professions. But it's not as rare as some may think. Of course in Spain wages are much higher - but the costs are higher as well.

[Cristiano viejo]

why did you quote it when I asked you not to do it?

An average income =/= an median income.
Apologies, my bad. I will edit it.


What I said applies only to Sofia and it's only people in certain professions. But it's not as rare as some may think. Of course in Spain wages are much higher - but the costs are higher as well.
Yeah, capital cities always are different.

[Lightshade25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage


http://i.imgur.com/8GvkGf0.jpg

[Magnolia]

Cost of living by country:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2017&region=150

Median income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Ireland better off then any European country is really hard to believe.

[Cristiano viejo]

News from today about 2016. Spanish gross average wages 2016

http://www.abc.es/media/economia/2017/11/13/salarios-medios-brutos--620x349-U10187853307aJH--620x349@abc-Home.jpg

http://www.abc.es/economia/abci-trabajador-vasco-cobra-622-euros-media-mas-extremeno-201711122046_noticia.html