Hungarian Conquerors were a mixture of Goth and Hunnic tribes according to newest research

[Fakirbakir]

Try to interpret this chart (based on 89 Hungarian Conquerors' samples),



https://i.imgsafe.org/a05dcd4aac.png

31% Eastern and Inner Asia
6% likely Eastern and Inner Asia
28% Scandinavian German
10% likely Scandinavian German
6% Caucasus
6% Other Europeans
2% Slavic

"Genetic data imply Xiongnu origin of the Hungarian Conquerors, who were considerably admixed with Germans of Scandinavian origin, Neparaczky 2016" This is not a joke, this is serious
Full research can be read, here (HU) http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

[Pennywise]

So Xiongnus=Huns and Huns+Later Goths=Hungarians? Then who were the people (called Magyars) who settled EtelKöz after Khazars and then modern Hungary in 9th-10th centuries?

[RN97]

This sounds so stupid. This mixture occurred probably before there were such a people such as goths or Huns. No one says the Finno-Urgians are a mixture of vikings and siberians, that's dumb.
It also seems that the asian genes in the Hungarian pop. has been long bred out so it's all coolzies either way, but cool info anyway.

[Fakirbakir]

According to this research the Huns who invaded Europe in the 4th century migrated back to Eastern Europe. They mixed with the Goths and the Alans there heavily and this composite people led by Arpad migrated to present-day Hungary in the late 9th century. All Hungarian medieval chronicles stated that the Magyars had Hun ancestry.

[RN97]

According to this research the Huns who invaded Europe in the 4th century migrated back to Eastern Europe. There, they mixed with the Goths and the Alans heavily and this composite people led by Arpad migrated to present-day Hungary in the late 9th century. All Hungarian medieval chronicles stated that Magyars had Hun ancestry.

But where the Huns not mostly European? Where do you get it from that the Huns were mostly Asiatic prior to mixing?

[Szegedist]

What exactly is Hunnic admixture?

Anyway, its known that the Huns migrated back to around Ukraine, and split up into various tribes, Kutrigurs, Onogurs, Utrigurs.

The Magyars were members of the Onogur confederation.

[Pennywise]

But where the Huns not mostly European? Where do you get it from that the Huns were mostly Asiatic prior to mixing?

No they weren't, Where did you hear that?

[Szegedist]

The Huns absorbed many Gothic tribes, and Gothic became the Lingua Franca of the Hunnic empire.

It's possible that the Goths and whatever the Huns were mixed together , and then the Magyars gained some of that Gothic-Hunnic admixture while being part of the Onogur allience.

Then there are also the 3 Kabar tribes which were together with the Magyars.

[Fakirbakir]

Modern day Hungarians admixture, Hellenthal 2014
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png

According to the research Hellenthal's conclusion fits their results

[Pennywise]

Modern day Hungarians admixture, Hellenthal 2014
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png

According to the research Hellenthal's conclusion fits their results

Is the study also indicates the level of relation between old and modern Hungarians?

[Norse]

What it means is that the Hun forefathers were Aryan whites living in Siberia or rather more likely a hybrid Aryan white and Mongoloid, just like the North American Indians.

[Fakirbakir]

Modern day Hungarians admixture, Hellenthal 2014
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png

According to the research Hellenthal's conclusion fits their results

Hellenthal predicted that the German/Asian mixture occurred between 400 and 1000 AD

[Rudel]

But where the Huns not mostly European? Where do you get it from that the Huns were mostly Asiatic prior to mixing?

God knows what the Huns were in what proportions. Ethnic boundaries are very fuzzy when it come to tribes that roamed long distances over the gigantic Eurasian steppes.

[Fakirbakir]

Is the study also indicates the level of relation between old and modern Hungarians?

Hellenthal predicted that the German/Asian mixture occurred between 400 and 1000 AD but he only dealt with modern samples

[Wrong]

Did the Goths and Huns mingle? I thought they were bitter enemies.

Anyways, Huns do not have much to do with the Magyars I think. The latter was strongly Caucasoid, so the Magyars were the ones mixed with Goths if anything.

[RN97]

No they weren't, Where did you hear that?

saw someone on the forum post something like that waaaaay back in the day. He did give some reason, don't really remember it though. IDK if there are any sources of what huns were.

[Robocop]

So Xiongnus=Huns and Huns+Later Goths=Hungarians? Then who were the people (called Magyars) who settled EtelKöz after Khazars and then modern Hungary in 9th-10th centuries?

No, Huns were just part of Xiongu tribes north of China, we know this from Chinese scriptures from 2nd century BC.

I explained this about Hungarians in one of my threads, I will copy my text here:



Let's make things straight here, linguistic of late 19th and beginning of 20th century couldn't place Hungarian and Finnish language into same family with IndoEuropean languages, so they throw them both into one basket: Finno-Ugric.

But the "funny" thing is that Finnish and Hungarian language have almost no similarities, to be more precise, ONLY 22 words could be relatively connected between these to languages.

Now, compare this to Turkish language as "relation" to Finnish or Hungarian and you will get insanity.

Finnish people, along with Estonians, lived in area they are living for 10 000 years...

From genetical and linguistical point of view they separated themselves from others long time ago.

They were North-Western neigbhours (on same area position they are today) to Neolithic IndoEuropean cultures, means before Indoeuropean cultures of Eneolithic (like Yamna, Novodanilovka, Gorodsk-Usatovo etc...) started to spread on west.

We Archaeologists like to use in modern times ArcheoGenetics, which became a sub-field of Archaeology, very expensive but it can give many answers.

In most of the cases we use Y-DNA research to comapre it with our Archaeological research and studies, because of paternal (male) migrations trough history.

Now plz, pay attention, when talking about Y-DNA in Archaeology or in general, one cannot talk about entire DNA of person, but a "window" into his or her past from paternal side.

The fact on which everyone agrees in Archaeology is that all haplogroups belonging to haplogroup I are the oldest in Europe, Paleolithic/Mesolithic European.

First Homo Sapiens of Europe carried I haplogroup, later that haplogroup will emerge (produce) It's "family" of I haplogroups: I1, I2a1b, I2a2, I2c, I2b.

Also for a fact we can say that all I haplogroup people are Indoeuropeized by language, they didnt spoke IndoEuropean before Indoeuropean "invasion" starting around 4500-4000 BC.

Finnish people dont have anything to do with I haplogroup, but they belong to N1c1, now while this haplogroup of theirs is not from Paleolithic in Europe, it is a very very old in Europe, from late Mesolithic to Neolithic.

When it comes about Hungarians, things are somewhat more complex, and I will try to explain it, so everyone interested, read it:

Modern Hungarians are virtually undistinguishable from their Austrian and Slovak neighbours in terms of Y-chromosome haplogroups.

But Hungary is a notoriously difficult country for Y-DNA proportions. Percentages tend to vary widely from one study to another, depending on the regional populations sampled. Some studies have found over 60% of R1a in Hungary, although the average if half that figure. Some villages have a small percentage of CentralNorth Asian haplogroups Q or C, but they are otherwise quite rare. Interestingly neighbouring countries like Austria, Slovakia and Ukraine appear to have more C, Q (even though not much) than Hungary.

Hungary has a peculiar history due to its geography - a vast plain surrounded by mountains on every side (the Alps and the Carpathians). In Neolithic times, it was at the centre of the Danubian cultures, which was composed of E-V13 farmers from Thessaly and I2 hunter-gatherers (soon converted to farming). Then came the Slavic invasion (around 3,000 BCE), followed by the Proto-Italo-Celts and Alpine Celts (2,000 BCE to 200 BCE), who brought respectively R1a and R1b to the region.

Hungary was named after the Huns, who invaded Europe from 370 CE and partly settled in the Pannonian plain (now known as Hungarian plain). It isn't sure where the Huns came from, but it is generally believed that they descended from the Xiongnu peoples of Mongolia. They were a confederation and included various ethnic group under Hunnic leadership. It is likely that there were many R1a peoples (e.g. Scythians) from the Eurasian Steppe. The Huns themselves may have been an admixture of haplogroup Q and C. However less than 2% of the modern population of Hungary belong to Q and C combined.

Map: Magyars in 700 AD.

http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/700/entity_2669.jpg

The next invaders were the Magyar, a Finno-Ugric people who arrived in Europe in the 9th century, and settled in Hungary in the 10th. Hungarian language is actually a descendant of Magyar, not Hunnic, despite the misleading name in "Hun-". The Magyar came from Central Asia, and are related to the modern Bashkirs of Russia. Modern Bashkirs have about 35% of haplogroup R1b1b2, 26% of R1a, 17% of N1c and 13% of R1b1b1. However, they were conquered by the Mongols, which may account for all the haplogroup C. In fact, the presence of C in Europe is usually attributed exclusively to the Mongols, and C is almost non-existent in Hungary anyway.

A study compared the Y-chromosome of the Madjar tribe from Kazakhstan to the Magyars of Hungary, and found that some G lineages were related. The article doesn't specify the subcalde, but G1 is the dominant strain in Kazakhstan, and is also found in Hungary (but normally not elsewhere in Europe).

Another study compared the Y-DNA of Hungarians with other Finno-Ugric-speaking populations in order to understand why modern Hungarians have so little of the typical Uralic haplogroup N1c. They tested a few individuals from a 10th-century cemetery found out that half of the individuals belonged to N1c. The sample was small, and maybe "pure" Magyar, but it nonetheless suggests that the original Magyar had much more N1c than modern Hungarians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Migration_of_Hungarians.jpg

The Magyar population is thought to have suffered considerably from the 13th-century Mongol invasion of Europe, and from the 16th-century war against the Ottomans. Hungary was repopulated in great number by ethnic Germans/Austrians, which explains why modern Hungary is closest to Austria for its Y-DNA composition.

From all this can be deduced that the original Magyars were an admixture of N1c and R1a (predominant), with some G1, and maybe some R1b.

As haplogroup Q is neither associated with the Magyars not with the Mongols, it must be either of Hunnic origin, or from other Asian tribes part of the various invaders from the steppes.

Thread: Origin of Hungarians - ArchaeoGenetics & History (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?201557-Origin-of-Hungarians-ArchaeoGenetics-amp-History&p=4250246#post4250246)

[Harkonnen]

Hellenthal predicted that the German/Asian mixture occurred between 400 and 1000 AD but he only dealt with modern samples

According to recent Busby paper the Finno-Ugrians of Central Russia lacked East Eurasian admixtures until migration period times, coinciding with Turkic/Hunnic

Within our dataset, only the Finnish, Hungarians and
Mordovians speak Finno-Ugric languages, the latter of which we group into two clusters (mordo13: 792
(564-975CE); mordo2: 558 (179-843CE)) and, together with the Russians (russi25: 913(754-1007CE))
and Chuvash (chuva16: 829 (627-940CE)) populations, infer admixture at approximately the same time
(500-900CE) involving Mongolian, Central European, and Finnish donors. In a recent analysis that re-
constructed the ancestry of Eurasia on the basis of ancient DNA [S?], the ancestry of these groups could
not be explained without a putative stream of recent Asian admixture, a scenario which we confirm in our
analysis. As such, the Asian admixture in these groups is unlikely to be associated with the Mongolian
expansion described above and may instead be related to earlier Turkic movements, involving the Huns
and Avars [S?], but separate to the event inferred in the Finnish.

[Pennywise]

No, Huns were just part of Xiongu tribes north of China, we know this from Chinese scriptures from 2nd century BC.




That's disputed. But the study seems like a bit fuzzy and mixed up lots of things.

[Fakirbakir]

According to recent Busby paper the Finno-Ugrians of Central Russia lacked East Eurasian admixtures until migration period times, coinciding with Turkic/Hunnic

Within our dataset, only the Finnish, Hungarians and
Mordovians speak Finno-Ugric languages, the latter of which we group into two clusters (mordo13: 792
(564-975CE); mordo2: 558 (179-843CE)) and, together with the Russians (russi25: 913(754-1007CE))
and Chuvash (chuva16: 829 (627-940CE)) populations, infer admixture at approximately the same time
(500-900CE) involving Mongolian, Central European, and Finnish donors. In a recent analysis that re-
constructed the ancestry of Eurasia on the basis of ancient DNA [S?], the ancestry of these groups could
not be explained without a putative stream of recent Asian admixture, a scenario which we confirm in our
analysis. As such, the Asian admixture in these groups is unlikely to be associated with the Mongolian
expansion described above and may instead be related to earlier Turkic movements, involving the Huns
and Avars [S?], but separate to the event inferred in the Finnish.

According to this study Wong in 2016 analysed Khanty and Mansi samples and his research group made the conclusion that the Khantys and Mansis had ancient European haplotypes but about 5-7 thousand years ago they received some Asian markers. However Neparaczki says that there is (was) a very little connection between Hungarians and Khanty-Mansi peoples in the sense of genetics.

[Biometrik]

What it means is that the Hun forefathers were Aryan whites living in Siberia or rather more likely a hybrid Aryan white and Mongoloid, just like the North American Indians.

"Aryan whites"...you mean Indo-European whites. Aryans are not Whites.

[Wrong]

Romanians are actually more Turanid than Hungarians, by all means.

[Not a Cop]

Modern day Hungarians admixture, Hellenthal 2014
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png

According to the research Hellenthal's conclusion fits their results

If that map reffers to modern-day hungarians than it's obviously bullshit, since i see no trace of Slavic input, which is undeniable in Hungarians.

[War Chef]

1st off try to define Gothic blood... to say it's Scandinavian is pure ignorance. Goths were just some Bavarian hill tribe related to the Marcomanni who followed the Danube all the way to the mouth, simple as that. Here's your Goths:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessarabia_Germans

[Norse]

"Aryan whites"...you mean Indo-European whites. Aryans are not Whites.

You've got some learning to do.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Arpad was huwhiiiiiiite!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Arpad_Kepes_Kronika.jpg

[Szegedist]

Arpad was huwhiiiiiiite!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Arpad_Kepes_Kronika.jpg

Strong level of retardation in this post. An ancient mediieval painting is totally classifiable.

[johen]

Modern day Hungarians admixture, Hellenthal 2014
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png
According to the research Hellenthal's conclusion fits their results

If the map is true, looks like Magyar elite originated in Margal people in Manchu area, who ruled China two times.
I think XioungNu people didnot live up there, who originated in Ordos of inner Mongolia.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Strong level of retardation in this post. An ancient mediieval painting is totally classifiable.
I wasn't implying he wasn't white, fyi. I was implying he was. Other people were implying the Magyars were non-white.

If you're implying he wasn't, he clearly is.

[XenophobicPrussian]

According to recent Busby paper the Finno-Ugrians of Central Russia lacked East Eurasian admixtures until migration period times, coinciding with Turkic/Hunnic

Within our dataset, only the Finnish, Hungarians and
Mordovians speak Finno-Ugric languages, the latter of which we group into two clusters (mordo13: 792
(564-975CE); mordo2: 558 (179-843CE)) and, together with the Russians (russi25: 913(754-1007CE))
and Chuvash (chuva16: 829 (627-940CE)) populations, infer admixture at approximately the same time
(500-900CE) involving Mongolian, Central European, and Finnish donors. In a recent analysis that re-
constructed the ancestry of Eurasia on the basis of ancient DNA [S?], the ancestry of these groups could
not be explained without a putative stream of recent Asian admixture, a scenario which we confirm in our
analysis. As such, the Asian admixture in these groups is unlikely to be associated with the Mongolian
expansion described above and may instead be related to earlier Turkic movements, involving the Huns
and Avars [S?], but separate to the event inferred in the Finnish.
No. Those dates are way too late.

Mongoloids already devastated and raped the Indo-Iranian homelands of Volga Russia/western Siberia by the late bronze age. Mezhovskaya culture is the first central Russian/Volga culture that we see non-ANE Mongoloid admixture, from 1400 BC. The previous 0% non-ANE Mongoloid Altai region was devastated much earlier.

I do agree the Finns and Uralic people get their Mongoloid from separate sources, Finns from arctic Nganasan-like reindeer herders in a more mutual arrangement and Finno-Ugrics from more steppe Mongoloids, in a more rapey, conquest, non-mutual way.

A lot of European conquests from the east by other Europeans were likely done by people specifically fleeing Mongoloids.

Basically, Europid Indo-Europeans(specifically Afanasievo from the Altai/Mongolia/Xinjiang) taught Mongoloids everything they know about steppe culture and horse combat, it later came to bite them in the ass as the Mongoloids used this knowledge against them and took over the former European role as kings of the steppe, likely due to their higher intellect. You would've had fully white communities as far as Mongolia back in the day before this conquest.

[Biometrik]

You've got some learning to do.

Actually you do, Mongoloid infected Northern Europeans have nothing to do with being Aryan. neither do any other Europeans.

[Fakirbakir]

Try to interpret this chart (based on 89 Hungarian Conquerors' samples),



https://i.imgsafe.org/a05dcd4aac.png

31% Eastern and Inner Asia
6% likely Eastern and Inner Asia
28% Scandinavian German
10% likely Scandinavian German
6% Caucasus
6% Other Europeans
2% Slavic

"Genetic data imply Xiongnu origin of the Hungarian Conquerors, who were considerably admixed with Germans of Scandinavian origin, Neparaczky 2016" This is not a joke, this is serious
Full research can be read, here (HU) http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Another new study by the same research group (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00438-016-1267-z) states that

"...we revealed that a significant portion of the Hungarians probably originated from a long ago consolidated gene pool in Central Asia-South Siberia, which still persists in modern Hungarians. Another genetic layer of the early Hungarians was obtained during their westward migrations by admixing with various populations of European origin, and an important component of these was derived from the Caucasus region. Most of the modern populations, which are genetically closest relatives of ancient Hungarians, today speak non-Indo-European languages"

So, it seems that there is going to be a problem with the explanation of the origin of the Hungarian language....

[Peterski]

Those samples are probably not from Magyars, but rather from assimilated locals after the conquest. As for Goths, could you be more patient and wait? 50 Gothic samples (Wielbark culture) from Poland will be published soon. I already have info about 4 out of these 50 samples. I know their Y-DNA haplogroups.

[Peterski]

89 Hungarian Conquerors' samplesp

Any Y-DNA haplogroups ??? Or just mtDNA ???

[Peterski]

http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Only mtDNA... ? Well, mtDNA is inherited from your mother.

And conquerors usually take local, conquered women as wifes.

So this is another worthless study, without any Y-DNA haplos.

[Hexachordia]

31% Eastern and Inner Asia
6% likely Eastern and Inner Asia


These percentages add up to a very huge amount of presumably mongoloid admixtures. I never saw such interpretation of genetic datas of hungarian people before, even the finns which have high amount of N-ydn, are consider indigenous european by the interpretation of their ynd-N. However, it seems to be of extreme minority given whatever kinds of conquesting leaders dna it may be.

[Peterski]

Did the Goths and Huns mingle? I thought they were bitter enemies.

Huns married Gothic women (which is why you get Gothic mtDNA in a study without Y-DNA):

http://christogenea.org/references/origin-and-deeds-goths-jordanes

"(...) in the third battle, when they [the Huns under Balamber and the Goths under Vinitharius] met each other unexpectedly at the river named Erac, Balamber shot an arrow and wounded Vinitharius in the head, so that he died. Then Balamber took to himself in marriage Vadamerca, the grand-daughter of Vinitharius, and finally ruled all the people of the Goths as his peaceful subjects (...)"

According to some sources Fredemundus of the Salian Franks (born in 394 AD) was one of sons of Balamber and Vadamerca. So Fredemundus had Germanic mtDNA, but Hunnic Y-DNA.

Atilla's mother could also be Germanic, but his father was Hunnic - Mundzuk (Μουνδίουχος).

Studies on conquerors which focus on mtDNA and ignore Y-DNA, are simply worthless.

[Fakirbakir]

Those samples are probably not from Magyars, but rather from assimilated locals after the conquest. As for Goths, could you be more patient and wait? 50 Gothic samples (Wielbark culture) from Poland will be published soon. I already have info about 4 out of these 50 samples. I know their Y-DNA haplogroups.

The samples are from graves with classical conqueror grave goods. They cannot be "locals". Moreover the study also states that the previous Hungarian genetic researches are not really reliable because of methodological errors.

[Peterski]

The samples are from graves with classical conqueror grave goods. They cannot be "locals". Moreover the study also states that the previous Hungarian genetic researches are not really reliable because of methodological errors.

But where is Y-DNA and autosomal DNA? Only mtDNA = worthless study.

[Fakirbakir]

http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Only mtDNA... ? Well, mtDNA is inherited from your mother.

And conquerors usually take local, conquered women as wifes.

So this is another worthless study, without any Y-DNA haplos.

No, mtdna and Y-DNA

[Peterski]

No, mtdna and Y-DNA

Which page has Y-DNA ???

[Peterski]

I remember reading in several studies that H5 (especially H5a1f, H5a1r, H5a1s, H5a2, H5b4, H5e1a, H5u1, H5a1a), H6 (especially H6c, H6a1a9, H6a1b3), U4 especially U4a (U4a2a, U4a2b, U4a2c, U4a2g, U4d1), U5 especially U5a (U5a1a2a, U5a1c1, U5a2a including U5a2a1b, U5a2b1, U5b1a1), U3 (U3a1a, U3b1b) and U2e1b1 are typically Slavic mtDNA subclades, and subclades such as U2e1g, U2e2a1, U4a2b, U4c2, U5a1b1c, U5a2b1, U5b1e, U5b2a2b1 are typically both Slavic and Germanic (common among both groups).

Yet I can see that in this study they counted some of them as "Scandinavian-German".

[Fakirbakir]

Which page has Y-DNA ???

They say that they examined Y-DNA as well. (p 44).

[Fakirbakir]

Which page has Y-DNA ???
The study has a supplement somewhere with charts.

[Fakirbakir]

Which page has Y-DNA ???
I have found it. Check p 98

[Peterski]

I have found it. Check p 98

Thanks, 97 as well.


Genetic data imply Xiongnu origin of the Hungarian Conquerors

Xiongnu / Hunnu samples from Egyin Gol, Duurling Nars, Barköl and Birlik:

1) Paternal lineages:

1a) East Asian haplogroups (22 samples - ca. 82% of the total):

Sample: Y-DNA

EG27: C2e-Z1338
EG46: C2-M217
EG47: C2-M217
EG50: C2-M217
EG52: C2-M217
EG53: C2-M217
EG54: C2-M217
EG57: C2e-Z1338
EG58: C2e-Z1338
EG70: C-M130
MNX2: C2-M217

EG88: Q1a2-M346
EG92: Q1a2-M346
EG94: Q1a2-M346
EG112: Q-M242 (maybe Q1b)
Barköl1: Q1a3a-M3
Barköl2: Q1a3a-M3
Barköl3: Q1a3a-M3

EG25A: N1c
EG84.1: N1c
EG19: N1c1-Tat

EG95: O3a2

1b) West Eurasian haplogroups (5 samples - ca. 18% of the total):

Sample: Y-DNA

EG69: R1b

EG84bis: I2c1

MNX3: R1a1a
EG72: R1a
EG73: R1a

=========================

2) Maternal lineages:

2a) East Asian haplogroups (43 samples - ca. 83% of the total):

Sample: mtDNA

EG46: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG52: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG54: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG57: D4 (Y-DNA: C2e-Z1338)
EG70: D4 (Y-DNA: C-M130)
EG72: D4 (Y-DNA: R1a)
EG84bis: D4o1 (Y-DNA: I2c1)
EG73: D4 (Y-DNA: R1a)
EG88: D4 (Y-DNA: Q1a2-M346)
EG94: D4 (Y-DNA: Q1a2-M346)
MNX2: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG73: D4
EG74: D4
EG28: D4
EG48: D4
EG32A: D4
EG65: D4
EG77: D4
EG41: D4
EG61: D4
EG63: D4o1
EG35: D4o1
EG36: D4o1
EG37A: D4o1
EG93: D4o1
EG91: D4o1
EG83b: D4o1
EG68: D4o1

EG53: D5/D5a (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG69: D5/D5a (Y-DNA: R1b)

EG47: C5 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG50: C (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG39: C4a1
EG66: C
EG56: C
EG49: C

EG58: F1b (Y-DNA: C2e-Z1338)
EG59: F1b
EG82: F1b
EG83: F1b

EG25A: G2a (Y-DNA: N1c)
Birlik2: G2

EG84.1: B4b (Y-DNA: N1c)

2b) Uncertain origin, depends on subclade (2 samples - ca. 3%):

Sample: mtDNA

EG92: M (Y-DNA: Q1a2-M346)
EG90: M

2c) West Eurasian haplogroups (7 samples - ca. 14% of the total):

Sample: mtDNA

EG76: U5a1a
EG78: U5a1a

MNX3: U2e1 (Y-DNA: R1a1a)
EG95: U2 (Y-DNA: O3a2)

EG27: J1 (Y-DNA: C2e-Z1338)
EG18A: J1

Birlik1: H

[Harkonnen]

Thanks, 97 as well.



Xiongnu / Hunnu samples from Egyin Gol, Duurling Nars, Barköl and Birlik:

1) Paternal lineages:

1a) East Asian haplogroups (22 samples - ca. 82% of the total):

Sample: Y-DNA

EG27: C2e-Z1338
EG46: C2-M217
EG47: C2-M217
EG50: C2-M217
EG52: C2-M217
EG53: C2-M217
EG54: C2-M217
EG57: C2e-Z1338
EG58: C2e-Z1338
EG70: C-M130
MNX2: C2-M217

EG88: Q1a2-M346
EG92: Q1a2-M346
EG94: Q1a2-M346
EG112: Q-M242 (maybe Q1b)
Barköl1: Q1a3a-M3
Barköl2: Q1a3a-M3
Barköl3: Q1a3a-M3

EG25A: N1c
EG84.1: N1c
EG19: N1c1-Tat

EG95: O3a2

1b) West Eurasian haplogroups (5 samples - ca. 18% of the total):

Sample: Y-DNA

EG69: R1b

EG84bis: I2c1

MNX3: R1a1a
EG72: R1a
EG73: R1a

=========================

2) Maternal lineages:

2a) East Asian haplogroups (43 samples - ca. 83% of the total):

Sample: mtDNA

EG46: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG52: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG54: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG57: D4 (Y-DNA: C2e-Z1338)
EG70: D4 (Y-DNA: C-M130)
EG72: D4 (Y-DNA: R1a)
EG84bis: D4o1 (Y-DNA: I2c1)
EG73: D4 (Y-DNA: R1a)
EG88: D4 (Y-DNA: Q1a2-M346)
EG94: D4 (Y-DNA: Q1a2-M346)
MNX2: D4 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG73: D4
EG74: D4
EG28: D4
EG48: D4
EG32A: D4
EG65: D4
EG77: D4
EG41: D4
EG61: D4
EG63: D4o1
EG35: D4o1
EG36: D4o1
EG37A: D4o1
EG93: D4o1
EG91: D4o1
EG83b: D4o1
EG68: D4o1

EG53: D5/D5a (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG69: D5/D5a (Y-DNA: R1b)

EG47: C5 (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG50: C (Y-DNA: C2-M217)
EG39: C4a1
EG66: C
EG56: C
EG49: C

EG58: F1b (Y-DNA: C2e-Z1338)
EG59: F1b
EG82: F1b
EG83: F1b

EG25A: G2a (Y-DNA: N1c)
Birlik2: G2

EG84.1: B4b (Y-DNA: N1c)

2b) Uncertain origin, depends on subclade (2 samples - ca. 3%):

Sample: mtDNA

EG92: M (Y-DNA: Q1a2-M346)
EG90: M

2c) West Eurasian haplogroups (7 samples - ca. 14% of the total):

Sample: mtDNA

EG76: U5a1a
EG78: U5a1a

MNX3: U2e1 (Y-DNA: R1a1a)
EG95: U2 (Y-DNA: O3a2)

EG27: J1 (Y-DNA: C2e-Z1338)
EG18A: J1

Birlik1: H

Hey Polak how do yo know that Egiin Gol N1c1 has East Asian origin?

[Peterski]

Hey Polak how do yo know that Egiin Gol N1c1 has East Asian origin?

All of N1c ultimately has East Asian origin. Only N1c-L708 and more recent branches are European.

But N1c-Tat (which is an older branch than L708) has not been found anywhere in Europe so far.

[Harkonnen]

All of N1c ultimately has East Asian origin. Only N1c-L708 and more recent branches are European.

But N1c-Tat (which is an older branch than L708) has not been found anywhere in Europe so far.

Lol you fucking retarded delusional Polak.

[Peterski]

N1c in China (2013 publication):

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-13-216

Xiliao He - 26 samples of N1* and N1c dated to 6500-2700 years ago.

See also Ye Zhang et al. (2016 publication):

Jiangjialiang (Xueshan culture) - N1c-Tat (age 5600-4900 years ago)

Also (Xiaohe = Caucasoid Tocharian mummies):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T34tkRC-e2w/Uq2vmJgdKDI/AAAAAAAACS0/eA5voo3WSqc/s1600/EAsiaMetal.PNG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T34tkRC-e2w/Uq2vmJgdKDI/AAAAAAAACS0/eA5voo3WSqc/s1600/EAsiaMetal.PNG

N1c came from China to Europe:


N1 was in northern China with 1st farmers and probably before. N1c appears in Upper Xiajiadian. They were herders from the steppe with cattle, horses and bronze, which they had through contacts with Andronovo near the Altai mountains.

300 years later Donghu people arrived from the steppe in the Liao river area. They started pillaging and raiding on horseback in the northern Chinese states. That is when the 1st parts of the Great Wall were built.

By 4,500 years ago N1c tribes had already crossed the entire Siberia and were already in northern Europe.

IMO N1c arrived on the Siberian steppes east of Lake Bajkal with early pottery, 12-13,000 years ago. They (all N + subclades) came from the Yellow Sea. Sea levels had started to rise.

(...)

Comb Ceramic or Pit-Comb Ware (in Europe), Jeulmun pottery or Jeulmun vessel (in Korea) is a type of pottery subjected to geometric patterns in the comb-like tool. This type of pottery developed in northern woodland of the Eurasia, and widely distributed to Baltic, Finland, the Volga upstream flow, south Siberia, Lake Baikal, Mongolian Plateau, Liaodong Peninsula and Korean Peninsula. The oldest ones have been discovered from the remains of Liao civilization - Xinglongwa culture (6200 - 5400 BC).[1] It appears in 4200 BC in Finland and 4000 BC in the Korean Peninsula, so the Urheimat is assumed to be Liao region and spread afterward to North Europe through Siberia and to Korean peniusla. This is possibly related to Uralic migration and spread of haprogroup N (Y-DNA).[2]

Some of these could be N1c too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon

[Peterski]

Feher et al. 2015, "Y‑SNP L1034: limited genetic link between Mansi and Hungarian‑speaking populations":

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25258186

The oldest known sample of N1c from Europe is ~4500 years old from Russia (the region of Smolensk):

https://www.academia.edu/9452168/Archaeology_of_lake_settlements_IV-II_mill._BC_Mazurkevich_A._Polkovnikova_M._Dolbuno va_E._ed

See page 294, Table 3., sample A6.

[Harkonnen]

N1c in China (2013 publication):

http://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2148-13-216

Xiliao He - 26 samples of N1* and N1c dated to 6500-2700 years ago.

See also Ye Zhang et al. (2016 publication):

Jiangjialiang (Xueshan culture) - N1c-Tat (age 5600-4900 years ago)

Also (Xiaohe = Caucasoid Tocharian mummies):

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T34tkRC-e2w/Uq2vmJgdKDI/AAAAAAAACS0/eA5voo3WSqc/s1600/EAsiaMetal.PNG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T34tkRC-e2w/Uq2vmJgdKDI/AAAAAAAACS0/eA5voo3WSqc/s1600/EAsiaMetal.PNG

N1c came from China to Europe:



Some of these could be N1c too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon

You delusional Polak. That study disapproves East Asian origin of Chinese N1c1. Notice the complete absence of N1c1 in South East Asia. That is the first of N1c1 to China from the Steppes. Furthermore Turkic N1c1 is a subset of Uralic N1c1, not of Chinese N1c1 which could very well mean that on that timescale Egin Gool N1c1 could have European origin.

[Harkonnen]

Feher et al. 2015, "Y‑SNP L1034: limited genetic link between Mansi and Hungarian‑speaking populations":

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25258186

The oldest known sample of N1c from Europe is ~4500 years old from Russia (the region of Smolensk):

https://www.academia.edu/9452168/Archaeology_of_lake_settlements_IV-II_mill._BC_Mazurkevich_A._Polkovnikova_M._Dolbuno va_E._ed

See page 294, Table 3., sample A6.

Indeed and since Turkic and Siberian N1c1 is closer to European N1c1 than it is to Chinese it is more probable that the Egiin Gol N1c1 descents from Smolensk N1c1 than from the Chinese one.

[Fakirbakir]

Revising mtDNA haplotypes of the ancient Hungarian conquerors with next generation sequencing

"As part of the effort to create a high resolution representative sequence database of the medieval Hungarian conquerors we have resequenced the entire mtDNA genome of 24 published ancient samples with Next Generation Sequencing, whose haplotypes had been previously determined with traditional PCR based methods. We show that PCR based methods are prone to erroneous haplotype or haplogroup determination due to ambiguous sequence reads, and many of the resequenced samples had been classified inaccurately. The SNaPshot method applied with published ancient DNA authenticity criteria is the most straightforward and cheapest PCR based approach for testing a large number of coding region SNP-s, which greatly facilitates correct haplogroup determination."

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/12/07/092239

[Harkonnen]

So let's recap:

Chinese N1c1 is migrant from the Steppe

"The Upper Xiajiadian culture (UXC) of the late Bronze Age succeeded the LXC but was completely different from the LXC. The UXC people mainly practiced animal husbandry and made bronze objects decorated with animal and other natural motifs in the style of the Eurasian steppes...The presence of N1c in the UXC might suggest that there is immigration from the north Eurasian steppes during this period."


Physical anthroplogy:

The results of this study indicate that significant
craniofacial variation exists between southern and
northern Neolithic and Modern Chinese. For example,
northern Chinese have more robust crania than
southern ones. Principal component analyses show
that the Neolithic-North is distinguished from the
Neolithic-South in having a tall face, narrow nose and
high eyes, while the Modern-North separate from the
Modern-South in having a tall, broad face and high
nose. Bivariate plots of selected measures indicate the
northern Chinese are different from the southern
Chinese on cranial length, upper facial height and nasal
height. The Neolithic Chinese between the Qinling
Mountain range and the Yangtze River are mixed with
the North and South. Statistically significant cranio-
metrical differences exist between the Neolithic age
and Modern day groups, and between the northern and
southern Chinese. Temporal variation is also present.
For instance, size decreased through time. However,
some degree of morphological similarity exists
between North and South China, and also between
successive time periods. In the Neolithic sample the
separation is clearer between the northern and
southern samples than with the Modern arrays. During
the Neolithic, the Qinling Mountain Range and the
Yangtze River served as a geographic boundary
between North and South China.

This fits well with the ancient split of Chinese and European/Siberian N1c1.

[Harkonnen]

No. Those dates are way too late.

Mongoloids already devastated and raped the Indo-Iranian homelands of Volga Russia/western Siberia by the late bronze age. Mezhovskaya culture is the first central Russian/Volga culture that we see non-ANE Mongoloid admixture, from 1400 BC. The previous 0% non-ANE Mongoloid Altai region was devastated much earlier.

I do agree the Finns and Uralic people get their Mongoloid from separate sources, Finns from arctic Nganasan-like reindeer herders in a more mutual arrangement and Finno-Ugrics from more steppe Mongoloids, in a more rapey, conquest, non-mutual way.

A lot of European conquests from the east by other Europeans were likely done by people specifically fleeing Mongoloids.

Basically, Europid Indo-Europeans(specifically Afanasievo from the Altai/Mongolia/Xinjiang) taught Mongoloids everything they know about steppe culture and horse combat, it later came to bite them in the ass as the Mongoloids used this knowledge against them and took over the former European role as kings of the steppe, likely due to their higher intellect. You would've had fully white communities as far as Mongolia back in the day before this conquest.

Obviously what Mezhoskaya was doesn't have to have anything to do with with how modern populations were formed.

Anyway I have told yoú a dozen times to show caution with admixture results.

Fex. Here is a result from Lithuania 900 - 500 BC

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 73.93
2 Indo-Iranian 9.04
3 North-European-Mesolithic 7
4 Mesoamerican 4.68
5 North-Siberean 3.76
6 Austronesian 1.6

On Gedmatch this same individual scores 100% North Slavic. Obviouly there is some kind of calculator effect messing things on the result I posted.


The results obtained by STRUCTURE/ADMIXTURE are themselves also greatly affected by sample size (Puechmaille 2016). Specifically, groups that are numerically small with respect to other groups in the sample or have undergone little population-specific drift of their own are likely to be fit as mixes of multiple drifted groups, rather than given their own ancestral population.
Indeed, if an ancient sample is put into a dataset of modern individuals, the ancient sample is typically represented as an admixture of the modern populations (e.g. Rasmussen et al. 2010, Skoglund et al. 2012), which can happen even if the individual sample is old er than the split date of the modern populations and thus cannot be admixed . A similar effect can happen
when a source population is put into a dataset with two or more drifted sink populations. The source can be represented as a mix, even though there is no mixture within its history.


Anyway Mezhovs may be mixed ofc. Ultimately it has huge chunk of East Eurasian as I have already told you that admixture components likely hide huge chunks of East Eurasian. But has it more than your usual modern Slavic Shitforbrains. It very likely may be that it doesn't.

These were the haplogroups of Mezhoskaya:

R1b1a2-PF6494 mtDNA J2b1a
R1a1a1b-Z649 mtDNA I5c

So what comes to your rape stories. Y-dna looks continuation from earlier IE times, and neither the mtDNA indicates a recent Dominatrix input into Aryan genepool.

[cosmoo]

Conclusion in thread title is one of the most improbable I've seen lately.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Obviously what Mezhoskaya was doesn't have to have anything to do with with how modern populations were formed.

Anyway I have told yoú a dozen times to show caution with admixture results.

Fex. Here is a result from Lithuania 900 - 500 BC

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North-East-European 73.93
2 Indo-Iranian 9.04
3 North-European-Mesolithic 7
4 Mesoamerican 4.68
5 North-Siberean 3.76
6 Austronesian 1.6

On Gedmatch this same individual scores 100% North Slavic. Obviouly there is some kind of calculator effect messing things on the result I posted.



Anyway Mezhovs may be mixed ofc. Ultimately it has huge chunk of East Eurasian as I have already told you that admixture components likely hide huge chunks of East Eurasian. But has it more than your usual modern Slavic Shitforbrains. It very likely may be that it doesn't.

These were the haplogroups of Mezhoskaya:

R1b1a2-PF6494 mtDNA J2b1a
R1a1a1b-Z649 mtDNA I5c

So what comes to your rape stories. Y-dna looks continuation from earlier IE times, and neither the mtDNA indicates a recent Dominatrix input into Aryan genepool.
RISE 598 from Lithuania is an extremely low coverage sample, which is why Haak et al. didn't even examine it. It's well known low coverage samples will produce weird results. Meanwhile, Mezhovskaya samples had as much SNPs as any other Haak sample such as German Corded Ware or Yamnaya.

Those are two examples of y-dna/mtDNA, lmao.

Nice try though. What difference does it make if Mongoloids invaded the Volga/Urals region in 1400 BC or when you suggested either way? You seem too defensive about something that irrelevant(pro-tip: Finns/Estonians have little to do with Finno-Ugrians other than language, even y-dna speaking Volga/Uralic people are mostly Slavic haplogroups). I was just correcting your excess ANE induced mistake.

[Harkonnen]

RISE 598 from Lithuania is an extremely low coverage sample, which is why Haak et al. didn't even examine it. It's well known low coverage samples will produce weird results. Meanwhile, Mezhovskaya samples had as much SNPs as any other Haak sample such as German Corded Ware or Yamnaya.

Those are two examples of y-dna/mtDNA, lmao.

Nice try though. What difference does it make if Mongoloids invaded the Volga/Urals region in 1400 BC or when you suggested either way? You seem too defensive about something that irrelevant(pro-tip: Finns/Estonians have little to do with Finno-Ugrians other than language, even y-dna speaking Volga/Uralic people are mostly Slavic haplogroups). I was just correcting your excess ANE induced mistake.

I agree Volga-Uralians are genetically closer to Indo-Europeans. You are closer to them than I am

http://oi66.tinypic.com/359es1w.jpg

[johen]

Anyway Mezhovs may be mixed ofc. Ultimately it has huge chunk of East Eurasian as I have already told you that admixture components likely hide huge chunks of East Eurasian. But has it more than your usual modern Slavic Shitforbrains. It very likely may be that it doesn't.


Can you explain how the admixture hide East Eurasian Components?

As far as I know, ANE AG 2, 3 had almost 80% of West Eurasian Component, being close to Han.

http://abload.de/img/a19cus.png

[Antimage]

Hungarian conquerors were kashubian-basque mix IMO.

[johen]

Xiongnu / Hunnu samples from Egyin Gol, Duurling Nars, Barköl and Birlik:

1) Paternal lineages:

1a) East Asian haplogroups (22 samples - ca. 82% of the total):

Sample: Y-DNA

EG27: C2e-Z1338

EG88: Q1a2-M346
EG92: Q1a2-M346
EG94: Q1a2-M346
EG112: Q-M242 (maybe Q1b)
Barköl1: Q1a3a-M3
Barköl2: Q1a3a-M3
Barköl3: Q1a3a-M3

EG25A: N1c
EG84.1: N1c
EG19: N1c1-Tat

EG95: O3a2

1b) West Eurasian haplogroups (5 samples - ca. 18% of the total):

Sample: Y-DNA

EG69: R1b

EG84bis: I2c1

MNX3: R1a1a
EG72: R1a
EG73: R1a

=========================

2) Maternal lineages:



They have Q1a2-M346 which is the 20,000y old dominant Hg among American Indian. so they had american indian tradtion of using human skull as a drinking cup like scythian.
Q1a3 and R1a were found in neolithic altai. Q1a2 and R1a-z93 in Mongol broze. So their Q and R group must originate in Neolithic Altai.

And the Q1a2 and R1a-z93 would be anthropologically connected to ancient Turk.

Results indicate the Xiongnu were potentially composed of at least two biologically distinct groups. Individuals from the elite cemetery of Borkhan Tolgoi (Egiin Gol) share their ancestry with a Bronze Age population from western Mongolia, and possibly, to a later migration of Turks, who came to rule the eastern steppe from the 6th to 8th centuries AD.

However, probem is this map where Far East Asia components of modern Hungarians might not come from XioungNU, even if the 2 conquerors had N1c as Xioungu have. The other 2 conquerors had I and R1b, as I remembered.
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png

[johen]

Thanks, 97 as well.



Is there any analysis of 25 yDNAs?

looks like main Hg is P, Q M242, R1b M269, M343, R1a M17, which is related with ANE. Magyar People had the unique hair mode culture of shaving whole head except three braids. American Indian had such a hair braid culture also. How come this braid culture was continued in central Asia so long time?

In the US, tons of earth mounds exists. Even Minnesota state has 11,000 earth works and mounds. As we know, american indians have R1.
Below the US, lots of pyramids were built. And the builders had Q1a2.
I don’t know whether it is coincident, but in the steppe lots of earth mounds were built by Hg R people.
In Xian of China below the steppe, 100 Q1a2 type pyramids are located.

IMO, their ANE culture was never changed even after american Indian left Altai Mountain. Just their bodies were changed by getting west women and East women, but they didn't care. As scythian said, they lived as their ancestors did.

I think Maygars were integrated by this kind of culture, even if they had so many different Y hg. To nomad people like mongol, their hairmode was just their pride. They didn't care about their ethnicity, but culture. So it is meaningless to discuss that west people invaded to East at bronze age, and East people started to revenge since iron age.

However, there is no N1c. The R1b M343 is connected to Gengiskan, isn't it?

[Fakirbakir]

Neparaczki also debates the origin of the Hungarian language. He says that it seems that the Hunnic tribes spoke Hungarian (if he accepts the traditional view which states that the Hungarian language was brought into the Carpathian Basin by the Magyars).

I assume this statement is going to cause a bid debate among the academics. Get the popcorn and coke ready.

[Stears]

Where is the Turan-Gypsy Blogen ?

He went to comit suicide, because there is no metion of Central Asian fantasy tales.....besides, it is matter of debate if Árpád people could speak ancestor of Hungarian language.

[Pahli]

They have Q1a2-M346 which is the 20,000y old dominant Hg among American Indian. so they had american indian tradtion of using human skull as a drinking cup like scythian.
Q1a3 and R1a were found in neolithic altai. Q1a2 and R1a-z93 in Mongol broze. So their Q and R group must originate in Neolithic Altai.They have Q1a2-M346 which is the 20,000y old dominant Hg among American Indian. so they had american indian tradtion of using human skull as a drinking cup like scythian.
Q1a3 and R1a were found in neolithic altai. Q1a2 and R1a-z93 in Mongol broze. So their Q and R group must originate in Neolithic Altai.

And the Q1a2 and R1a-z93 would be anthropologically connected to ancient Turk.


However, probem is this map where Far East Asia components of modern Hungarians might not come from XioungNU, even if the 2 conquerors had N1c as Xioungu have. The other 2 conquerors had I and R1b, as I remembered.
http://i.imgsafe.org/a166bd592e.png

Stop talking out of your ass. Why do you keep connecting dominantly West Eurasian populations to Mongoloid people? They have some cultural and minor autosomal similarities but thats it. I have to point out that Q is related to Amerindians while R1 is mostly related to Eurasian populations of both West Eurasian and East Eurasian origin, Ancient Turks in the Altais were N1 of Siberian stock, before they later were mixed with Mongoloid tribes to the East.

[Harkonnen]

Stop talking out of your ass. Why do you keep connecting dominantly West Eurasian populations to Mongoloid people? They have some cultural and minor autosomal similarities but thats it. I have to point out that Q is related to Amerindians while R1 is mostly related to Eurasian populations of both West Eurasian and East Eurasian origin, Ancient Turks in the Altais were N1 of Siberian stock, before they later were mixed with Mongoloid tribes to the East.

Shut your fucking gypsy mouth.

[Pahli]

Shut your fucking gypsy mouth.

Does your butt feel nice after it got handled by the Somalis and Afghans my little faggot friend? :cool:

[Peterski]

Excellent comment from a Finnish female user on Anthrogenica:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8066-DISCUSSION-THREAD-FOR-quot-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News-quot&p=215423&viewfull=1#post215423


The new paper on Magyar MtDNA (http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf) contains interesting figures, but it strangely defines a long list of haplotypes Scandinavian-Germanic: U5a1a1h, U5a1i, U5a2a2a, U5a2b, U2e2a1a2, K1c1, H1b2, H1b1, H1c1, H2a1c, H15b, H5e1, H5+709, H5e1, H6a1a, H6a1b, T1a1, T2b, T2b4h, T2f1a1, J1c2, J1c3g, J1c7a, J1b1a1, J1b1a1-146, X2c1, X2f, I5a1, T1a10a, H2a1+146.

To my knowledge, ancient Hungarians did not ride to Scandinavia to marry local women but it was more probably the Vikings who sailed back home from Russia with an exotic wife. In this paper the Volga Ural cultural area is omitted and Slavs seem to have mostly Germanic-Scandinavian mtDNA.

I made a list of these Germanic-Scandinavian haplotypes with reference to ethnic groups where they are found today. I have used mostly Ian Logan site: http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/haplogroup_select.htm and the Swedish haplogroup database: http://dna.scangen.se/index.php?soktyp=begin&fnamn_sel=&enamn_sel=&fort_sel=&lan_sel=&fodd_sel=&haplo_sel=t1a10&haplospec_sel=&lang=en&show=search and Bermisheva et al paper on Volga Ural mtDNA, but these sources are not exhaustive!

U5a1a1h Poland; (256, 270, 294, 399) Lipka Tatars; not in Sweden
U5a1i rare everywhere, found at least in Spain, Norway
U5a2a2a Finland, Denmark (Ian Logan); not in Sweden
U5a2b Tunisia, Buryatia, Khamnigans, Poland, Austria, Lebanon, Bulgaria, Serbia; U5a2b Chuvash, Bashkirs, Maris, Tatars; widespread in Khanty (192 256 270); particularly frequent in Poland; Mordvine (16215);
K1c1 typical in Volga Ural: Chuvash, Maris, Tatars (K1c1e); K1c1, K1c1c frequent in whole Finland; K1c1b and K1c2 Western Europe; K1c frequent in Switzerland and Scandinavia, in Sweden K1c1 and K1c1b
H1b2 Tatars (16356 16080 16189); Khanty, Mansi H1b2a (80 184A 189 356); Russians, Poles; Rare in Sweden
H1b1 Mordvins; Tatars, Bashkirs, Komipermjaks H1b1a; Balkars; Buryats H1b1a; in Sweden H1b1b, in Finland H1b1
H1c1 H1c in Tatars, in Iran and Buryatia H1ca; Northwest Caucasus; frequent in Sweden
H2a1c Adyge, Poland, Italy, Denmark; small amounts in Finland and Sweden
H15b Italy, Druze, Denmark; H15b1 Denmark, Iran; H15b2 Armenia
H5-G709A Italy
H5e1 UK, Serbia, Greece, Denmark, Italy
H6a1a Volga Ural, icl. Chuvash, Baskirs, Tatars, Maris, Mordvins, old in Caucasus, Turkey; frequent in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe
H6a1b frequent in Russia, Central Asia, incl. Pashto, Tadjiks, Turkmens, Uzbeks, H6a1 in Altai; Near East and Siberia, H6a1b Shorians, H6a1b Lithuania, Ukraine, Germany; very frequent in the Pontic Steppe

Undefined T2* is frequent in Tatars, Mordvins, Bashkirs, Komipermjaks, Komizyrjans, Udmurts, Turkmens, Uzbeks
T2b4h Kazakh
T2b4e Azeri;
T2b4 Srubnaya Samara Uvarovka I Russia; Kazakhs, Northern Europe
T2b4a Russia, Northern Europe; T2b4i, T2b4g Italy; T2b4b, T2b4f Germany, UK; T2b4 T152C Scandinavia, Finland
T2f1a1 France, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Caucasus; T2f1 Buinsk Tatars
T1a1 widespread in Europe in general
T1a1a1 Khanty, Mansi; Khanty T1a1d (16270)
T1a1b Maris; In Finland T1a1b; T1a1b1 in India, Iran, Azer; T1a1b in Poland, Germany, in Buryatia 16179; in Turkey, Greece;
T1a1d Khanty, Mansi;
J1c2 Maris, Tatars, Mordvins, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Komipermjaks, Komizyrjans; J1c2 and J1c2c1 frequent in Finland and Sweden; also found in Iran
J1c7a Tatars, Ashkenazi jews, Hungary, Germany, Scandinavia, Finland, Belarus, Ukraine
J1b1a1 Khanty, Mansi, Lipka Tatars; small amounts in Northern Europe; sporadically in India
J1b1a1-T146C France, J1b1a1e T14470C Iran

X2c1 Finland, Russia, Armenia, Irland, Denmark, Germany, Caucasia, Spain
X2f Druze, North Ossetia, Iran, Armenia
I5a1a Italy, England

H2a1+146: On Ian Logan site I could find only one match: 23andMe('spcmk4'-2366) H2a1 146C
T1a10a: rare everywhere, and Ian Logan site did not indicate the origin of 3 samples

The only typically German haplotypes are U2e2a1a2 which according to Ian Logan is found in Ireland, Denmark and Sweden, and K1c1d and J1c3g (UK, Denmark).

[Peterski]

^^^ In other words, most of mtDNA haplogroups described as "Scandinavian-Germanic" in this publication are even more common all over Russia than in Scandinavia. The reason why they are found in Scandinavia today, is most likely because the Vikings brought women from Russia back to Scandinavia:


If you are descended from a Viking, it is very probable that you are also descended from his slave-girl, whom he took by force.

According to "Journey of Ahmad Ibn-Fadlan to the Itil River and Adoption of Islam in Bulgaria (921-922 AD)":

"(...) The Vikings are the filthiest of Allah's creatures: they do not purify themselves after excreting or urinating, nor do they wash themselves when in a state of impurity after coitus and do not even wash their hands after food. Indeed they are like wild asses that roam in the fields.

They arrive from their land and moor their boats by the Itil, which is a great river, building on its banks large wooden houses. They gather in each house in their tens and twenties, sometimes more, or less. Each of them has a couch on which he sits.

They are accompanied by beautiful slave girls.

One man will have intercourse with his slave-girl while his companions look on. Sometimes a group of them comes together to do this, each in front of the other. Sometimes indeed a merchant will come in to buy a slave-girl from one of them and he will chance upon him having intercourse with her.

But a Viking will not leave her alone until he has satisfied his urge.

They cannot, of course, avoid washing their faces and their heads each day, which they do with the filthiest and most polluted water imaginable. I shall explain.

Every day a slave-girl arrives in the morning with a large basin with water, which she hands to her owner. He washes his hands, then his face and his hair in the water, then he dips his comb in the water and brushes his hair, blows his nose and spits in the basin. There is no filthy impurity which he will not do in this water. When he no longer requires it, the slave-girl takes the basin to the man beside him and he goes through the same routine as his friend. She continues to carry it from one man to the next until she has gone round everyone in the house, with each of them blowing his nose and spitting into the basin, then washing his face and hair in the basin.

(...)

As soon as their boats arrive at this port [Bolghar], each of them disembarks (...) and prostrates himself before a great idol, saying to it:

'Oh my lord, I have come from a far country and I have with me such and such a number of young beautiful slave girls, and such and such a number of sable skins (...) I would like you to do the favour of sending me a merchant who has large quantities of dinars and dirhams and who will buy everything that I want and not argue with me over my price.' (...)"

[johen]

Excellent comment from a Finnish female user on Anthrogenica:


Originally Posted by Kristiina
The new paper on Magyar MtDNA (http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794...raczki_PhD.pdf) contains interesting figures, but it strangely defines a long list of haplotypes Scandinavian-Germanic: U5a1a1h, U5a1i, U5a2a2a, U5a2b, U2e2a1a2, K1c1, H1b2, H1b1, H1c1, H2a1c, H15b, H5e1, H5+709, H5e1, H6a1a, H6a1b, T1a1, T2b, T2b4h, T2f1a1, J1c2, J1c3g, J1c7a, J1b1a1, J1b1a1-146, X2c1, X2f, I5a1, T1a10a, H2a1+146.

To my knowledge, ancient Hungarians did not ride to Scandinavia to marry local women

I think it was possible. Of course, they didn't go up there for the purpose of marriage.

Hunnic Empire:
http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/3051.gif?v=1485680870

I am not sure of whether the following fact is related, but nomad people really liked "white color," which was related with shamanism.


So valuable were children of this sort – and so likely, therefore, to be bought and sold along the way – that only a handful of Finnish exotics ever found their way to the Crimea; Jukka Korpela estimates that their numbers may have been as low as half a dozen a year. The prices they commanded, however, were simply colossal; one source notes that girls who could be purchased for as little as 5 altyn in Karelia could be resold for 6,666 altyn even before they reached the Khanate – a mark up in excess of 133,000 percent. The higher price, equivalent to 200 roubles or (in about 1600) 250 sheep, was also about five times the usual price for a Crimean slave. It is no surprise, in these circumstances, that slaves from the far north were highly sought-after for their colouring – nor that their special characteristics were scrupulously noted in the slave registers so carefully kept in the ports that lay at the heart of this commerce in human misery: “white skin, white hair.”
https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01/15/blonde-cargoes-finnish-children-in-the-slave-markets-of-medieval-crimea/
Blonde cargoes: Finnish children in the slave markets of medieval Crimea

[Fakirbakir]

Excellent comment from a Finnish female user on Anthrogenica:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8066-DISCUSSION-THREAD-FOR-quot-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News-quot&p=215423&viewfull=1#post215423

The Goths actually migrated from Scandinavia to Eastern Europe. I don't think that the geneticists worked with recent samples when compared the conqueror results with ancient populations. The Varangians (Vikings) came much much later to the territories of Eastern Europe. The researchers even emphasized that the "Scandinavian" origin cannot be originated from the "Varangians".

[oszkar07]

Try to interpret this chart (based on 89 Hungarian Conquerors' samples),



https://i.imgsafe.org/a05dcd4aac.png

31% Eastern and Inner Asia
6% likely Eastern and Inner Asia
28% Scandinavian German
10% likely Scandinavian German
6% Caucasus
6% Other Europeans
2% Slavic

"Genetic data imply Xiongnu origin of the Hungarian Conquerors, who were considerably admixed with Germans of Scandinavian origin, Neparaczky 2016" This is not a joke, this is serious
Full research can be read, here (HU) http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf


Very interesting data, so is this based on samples of 9th - 10th century graves... in Hungary ?

I recal reading that at one stage the Hungarians possibly when they were around the Etelkoz found themselves surrounded by Khazar and Varangian
peoples. Could they possibly have mixed with Varangian's.

[Anglojew]

Three out of 10 tribes were Khazars.

[jingorex]

whats sad is that today in teh modern era that they are just a bunch of short, little, squat, cunts.

back in the day, when they were something to behold... Madjars!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7hMBgcpCHqQ/hqdefault.jpg

[blondbeast]

The Huns did absorb some Gothic tribes but also hundreds of thousands of Goths, including women and children, fled the Huns across the Danube into the Roman Empire/Balkans which ultimately led to the fall of Rome later on due to the Romans mistreating the Goth "refugees", also giving way to the birth of the Visigoths and their trek to conquer the city of Rome and after Iberia.

[oszkar07]

Three out of 10 tribes were Khazars.

those 3 were from the Khazar tribe but those 3 usually reffered to as Kabar's.
I vaguely recall reading they disbanded from the Khazar's for some reason...this may have been related to when the Khazar's adopted Judaism as their main religion.

[oszkar07]

whats sad is that today in teh modern era that they are just a bunch of short, little, squat, cunts.
back in the day, when they were something to behold... Madjars!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7hMBgcpCHqQ/hqdefault.jpg

If you look at the 2005 measurements in below link for Hungary the average height for Hungarian males was
5 foot 10, which is pretty comparable to much of central and western Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_average_human_height_worldwide
And then take a look at this other measurement list below and you see HUNGarians still have something to behold.
scroll down to the Green Zone :thumb001: average 6.5
http://brobible.com/life/article/average-penis-size-study/

[TheForeigner]

What race were the Ugric speakers who brought Hungarian language to Pannonia?

[zghiara]

The slavic is a little low,and german too high...they came through Ukraine and even if they came through western slavs slavic migration precedes magyar one.

[Sekarotuinen]

I so wish the Góthos language was still around. Hellenized east Germanic, so unique, and it only dued out so recently.

[Proto-Shaman]

Stop talking out of your ass. Why do you keep connecting dominantly West Eurasian populations to Mongoloid people? They have some cultural and minor autosomal similarities but thats it. I have to point out that Q is related to Amerindians while R1 is mostly related to Eurasian populations of both West Eurasian and East Eurasian origin, Ancient Turks in the Altais were N1 of Siberian stock, before they later were mixed with Mongoloid tribes to the East.

Q1a2 was also found in Maykopians, Huns and Scythians. Eupedia says this group is Mongol/Turk with a Hun/Alan/Chechen downstream. lol. Do you see the shizophrenia? Europeanists got lost in their own lies.