New disastrous gun law approved

[Eldritch]

Parliamentarians Vote to Tighten Gun Law

http://verkkouutiset.fi/images/verkkouutiset/gif4/e/eduskunta_lehtikuva_kimmo_mantyla_131010.jpg

Parliament overwhelmingly approved amendments to the Firearms Act on Wednesday. The new law requires physicians to inform authorities of individuals they consider unfit to own guns. It also increases the age of handgun ownership from 18 to 20.

Individuals applying for gun licences will also be required to undergo an aptitude test.

Last week, MPs had approved the content of the bill. On Wednesday, MPs voted 158 to 17 in favour of the changes. A total of 24 parliamentarians were absent from the vote.

All members of the True Finns and Christian Democrat parties, as well as five MPs from the Left Alliance and one Social Democrat parliamentarian voted against the bill.

Finnish lawmakers have been working to tighten the country’s gun laws following two school shootings and a mass shooting at a shopping centre in recent years.

Link. (http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/10/parliamentarians_vote_to_tighten_gun_law_2093944.h tml)

Commentary by Octavius (http://octavius1.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/miksi-aselaki-hyvaksytaan/):


Why will the Gun Act be adopted?

The reason is that the incumbent government has launched a campaign on the final sprint, which draws masses of voters.

Good examples of this are "shit law", and the law of foreign professional criminals, which meets such enriching business with unqualified approval.

The integration of Somali clans and their state-funded charter flights to Finland is also very close to the government's heart. Support for the growth trend, the Government is also preparing a grandmother law that will change all of Finland into a worldwide social retirement home.

In order to ensure electoral victory the government will adopt by consensus a new arms law brought about by the reforms, which affect about 700 000 hunters. Hunting exercise for the new law have enthusiasm and downright screaming against. Oh, it sounds a flood. Time in many a hunting club to circumvent even the relevant list of those who vote on behalf of the law. They are wonderful people who will hear a lot of great sounds in spring elections.

Government support is so unwavering, and even cast in concrete and steel that are lent to this evidence, say a few comments on that preference for organized crime.

__________________


The theory out of the mouths of those who should defend Finland, Finnish way of life and values.

Alexander Stubb: Banning organised crime begging is not the correct solution to the problems of the Roma.

Mari Kiviniemi: Banning organised crime begging is too heavy-duty weapon.

[Matritensis]

It doesn't sound that hard to me,but I don't know all the details yet.And about this,"Finnish lawmakers have been working to tighten the country’s gun laws following two school shootings and a mass shooting at a shopping centre in recent years",how the hell are they going to control illegal weapons with a tighter law?:crazy: The shopping center shooting was executed with an illegal weapon,they shouldn't mention it in the same news.That's not honest,and honesty is supposedly one of the Finnish strengths,isn't it?

[Eldritch]

It doesn't sound that hard to me,but I don't know all the details yet.And about this,"Finnish lawmakers have been working to tighten the country’s gun laws following two school shootings and a mass shooting at a shopping centre in recent years",how the hell are they going to control illegal weapons with a tighter law?:crazy: The shopping center shooting was executed with an illegal weapon,they shouldn't mention it in the same news.That's not honest,and honesty is supposedly one of the Finnish strengths,isn't it?

Honesty is one of Finnish strenghts, yes, but unfortunately it is not one of the strenghts of Matti Vanhanen's second cabinet.

I think the new gun law is catastrophic because:

It essentially makes it impossible to get a permit for a handgun, because in order to get one you have an endorsement from a certified handgun instructor, a fictional profession which does not exist.

It makes all firearm licenses temporary, which means in time even those handgun licenses currently being held by people will expire, with no possibility of renewing them.

And,

It forces doctors to break patients' confidentiality.

Everybody knows that the new law will not prevent school shootings or something like the Sello massacre from happening again.

Ibrahim Shkupolli used an unregistered handgun as you point out, and neither Matti Saari or Pekka-Eric Auvinen had a permanent license for their handguns. This law is a prelude to a UK-style full ban -- just because.

[Matritensis]

Well,I hope I won't have to surrender my three guns in the near future,they are lots of fun...by the way,I met Jussi Halla-Aho in a practical shooting course.He seems to be quite an intelligent and sensible guy despite his reputation in the Finnish media.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Well,I hope I won't have to surrender my three guns in the near future,they are lots of fun...by the way,I met Jussi Halla-Aho in a practical shooting course.He seems to be quite an intelligent and sensible guy despite his reputation in the Finnish media.

I'm intrested to get into this practical shooting. Where was this course staged?

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Tighter gun laws are for me a two sided (kaksipiippunen (doublebarrel) of all words!) thing.

I'm not even going to discuss hunting rifles because according to all statistics, they are not the problem.
On one side I think its ok to have better screening and tougher demands on people with guns. There are a lot of people who should not even come close to a gun.

An 18 year old walking into a gunshop looking for a Glock should ring all alarm bells.
My belief is that if you are intrested in pistol shooting you must start with a single shot competition pistol and practise for at least a year and be able to shoot a required amount of points and participate in competitions.
Also I think that first timers should store their pistols with shooting clubs ( I know this is difficult in reality, but in a perfect world ...) and only after two years be allowed to keep the gun at home.
On the other hand, I know that illegal guns are not controlled by laws aimed at normal citizens, they pour in anyway and if you really want a gun you can get one. The control should be imposed as better police work and border control. As it is today, I can pick up a gun in Bulgaria and drive across Europe with it without being checked once (thank you, EU).
I also know that there are facts and statistics which show that in places where gun laws are liberal, break ins and burglars are scarce, because thiefs are afraid of armed citizens!
I say this as a gun owner and pistolshooter.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

This law is a prelude to a UK-style full ban .


Picked up on the net:

I am a retired British Police Officer. I retired in November 2008. I now live in Southern Spain. I can tell you that banning legally held pistols WILL NOT make Finland or any other country in the world a safer place. Privately (legally) owned handguns were BANNED in England, Scotland and Wales in 1997. It has NOT made a jot of difference to armed crime in the U.K. The pistols were all held on licence and ALL were recorded in Police registries by owners details, make, type and serial number. They were ALL confiscated and compensation was paid to their owners by the government at a MASSIVE cost to the British taxpayer. If anything armed crime is now worse than it ever was. I can tell you this from PERSONAL experience from attending incidents of armed crime commited with so called “BANNED” handguns. Crimes of murder and grevious bodily harm are out of control being committed on a DAILY basis all over the U.K. There are gangs of teenagers roaming the streets carrying pistols and wearing good quality body armour. They are brazenly shooting at each other and often shooting innocent members of the public unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place. Criminals as above and like the Kosovan in Finland are NOT effected in the slightest by gun bans. I would invite the naive and the “do gooders” to take a long hard HONEST look at the British example and you will see the futility of “BANNING HANDGUNS”. After all HEROIN and COCAINE are “BANNED” as well. Thomas Hamilton in Scotland was clearly guilty of a LONG LIST of firearms offences prior to the murders he committed in Dunblane, yet Central Scotland Polce took NO ACTION against him despite him contravening already very strong firearms legislation. All it takes is for the Police to enforce EXISTING laws effectively. Making new draconian do-gooder type knee jerk reaction legislation is NOT the answer.

[Matritensis]

I'm intrested to get into this practical shooting. Where was this course staged?


It's here: http://www.westshooters.com/

The instructor is an Irish ex-para who has lived in Finland for decades.Lively and friendly guy but rigorous.Tomorrow I have the exam,and my reloadings are still too slow...(i'm the only idiot using a revolver there,but let's see).

[Matritensis]

Tighter gun laws are for me a two sided (kaksipiippunen (doublebarrel) of all words!) thing.

I'm not even going to discuss hunting rifles because according to all statistics, they are not the problem.
On one side I think its ok to have better screening and tougher demands on people with guns. There are a lot of people who should not even come close to a gun.

An 18 year old walking into a gunshop looking for a Glock should ring all alarm bells.
My belief is that if you are intrested in pistol shooting you must start with a single shot competition pistol and practise for at least a year and be able to shoot a required amount of points and participate in competitions.
Also I think that first timers should store their pistols with shooting clubs ( I know this is difficult in reality, but in a perfect world ...) and only after two years be allowed to keep the gun at home.
On the other hand, I know that illegal guns are not controlled by laws aimed at normal citizens, they pour in anyway and if you really want a gun you can get one. The control should be imposed as better police work and border control. As it is today, I can pick up a gun in Bulgaria and drive across Europe with it without being checked once (thank you, EU).
I also know that there are facts and statistics which show that in places where gun laws are liberal, break ins and burglars are scarce, because thiefs are afraid of armed citizens!
I say this as a gun owner and pistolshooter.

I agree about the age limit,a 18 years old is still a teenager,and it's true that some people are way too unstable to understand the responsibility that gun ownership implies.On the other hand,I don't know why handguns have such a horrid reputation,you can kill people much more effectively with a shotgun,but no one talks about them.I think action movies have done much harm to the perception that the public has about firearms in general.Not to mention that the people who legislate about them don't have the slightest idea about what they are talking about.For instance,in the Finnish media the term "puoliautomaatti" aplied to a gun suddenly makes it sound like It's a death-rays shooting device much more dangerous than anything else just because.

[Eldritch]

For instance,in the Finnish media the term "puoliautomaatti" aplied to a gun suddenly makes it sound like It's a death-rays shooting device much more dangerous than anything else just because.

... :rolleyes2:

I wish the politicians and the media actually listened to people who actually know something about guns once in a while. Are there actually handguns in the 21st Century that aren't semi-automatic? At least, ones that aren't displayed in museums?

[ikki]

My oh my, small world :p
So matritensis, going to show up some wednesday at annankadun william K? Guess those are called hommakerho these days..

[Matritensis]

I've been there a couple of times only,always after a concert in Johanneksen kirkko...why do you ask?

[ikki]

I've been there a couple of times only,always after a concert in Johanneksen kirkko...why do you ask?

Hmm.. must have missed you then (or not recogniced). Ohwell.
Just with the small world, looking to integrate further and such.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

(i'm the only idiot using a revolver there,but let's see).

Hahaa.. You loco..!

[poiuytrewq0987]

Hahaa.. You loco..!

Revolvers have a very high stopping power, what are you on about?

[Matritensis]

Yes,no stinking Glock comes even close to the accuracy and power of a .357 magnum revolver but...in IPSC (practical shooting) speed is fundamental and even with speedloaders I'm not as fast as people who simply just change magazines.But I'll try! On the other hand take a look at this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLxwChE0Q4g


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srM2qghDFuI&feature=related

[Psychonaut]

Revolvers have a very high stopping power, what are you on about?

Eh?

Whether a pistol is a revolver or automatic has got dick to do with its stopping power. A .357 magnum that's an auto leaves the same sized hole in a shithead that a revolver does.

[Matritensis]

Psychonaut is right,but pistols with magnum cartridges are a lot bigger than revolvers,and there are very few auto models in .357 magnum or .44 magnum.Desert Eagle and LAR Grizzly come to my mind now,maybe a few more.

[Psychonaut]

Psychonaut is right,but pistols with magnum cartridges are a lot bigger than revolvers,and there are very few auto models in .357 magnum or .44 magnum.Desert Eagle and LAR Grizzly come to my mind now,maybe a few more.

Yeah, you've got to have pretty manly hands to grip a handle full of .44 magnum shells. :D

[Piparskeggr]

I have handled firearms in both civilian and military contexts for over 48 years (started at age 5 with a single shot .22 rifle), my wife since age 7 (over 44 years). We each own pistols, rifles and shotguns (his and hers gun safes).

If the anti-self-defense, criminal-safety experts are right, we have committed suicide or homicide, not to mention assault or menacing, multiple times because the guns made us...hasn't happened.

I will agree that safety, marksmanship, legal and ethical training are essential, this is the 18th century meaning of the words "...well-regulated..." in the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. A well-armed, properly trained citizenry is not only a safer society, it is freer in my view, as the presence of a militia of the whole can act as a check on government accreting too much power and wealth to itself.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Revolvers have a very high stopping power, what are you on about?

The loading time, stupid...