Origins of European y-dna and mt-dna discussion thread

[de Burgh II]

:p


E origin:
50-55Kyr in East Africa or the Middle East

E1b1b
mutation: M78
current populations: About 14Kyr, E1b1b spread throughout North and North East Africa, the Near East and later Europe. E1b1b is the third most frequent Y haplogroup in Europe.

G origin:
15-35Kyr in Near East or Southern Asia

G was one of the "F-scale" haplogroups "injected" into the (R1b and I) populations of Old Europe during the Neolithic expansion of peoples from the Near East about 10Kyr.

G2a1a
mutation: L293
current populations: Caucasus, Eastern Europe and Ashkenazi Jews

G2a1a
mutation: L293
current populations: Caucasus, Eastern Europe and Ashkenazi Jews

G2a1b
mutation: L223
current populations: Southwest and southern Asia, Corsica and Sardinia

Oetzi, the Iceman preserved for over 5Kyr in the icy Italian Alps, belongs to G2a1b.

G2a1c1
mutation: M406
current populations: Turkey (5%), Greece (5%), Iraq (Kurds), Italy, Spain, Netherlands and Switzerland

G2a1c1a1
mutation:
current populations: Europe and Turkey (Armenia)

I origin:
25-30Kyr in Europe or the Middle East

mutation:
M170

current populations:
I is carried by the descendants of men who are believed to have arrived in Europe from the Middle East 20-25Kyr ago. They were associated with the Gravettian culture (22-28Kyr). I is the second most common Y haplogroup in North West Europe after R1b. 25% of males in Europe: the Balkans, Germany, Scandinavia and North Western Europe carry I. (Bosnia and Herzegovina 65%, Norway 40%, Denmark, 39%, Germany 24% and England 20%)

However, a competing theory runs that the parent of I (IJ) was the oldest Y haplogroup to appear in Europe - and that it (not R1b) was carried by the descendants of Cro-Magnon - at about 25Kyr.

The sub-clades of I are:
I1
origin: 15-25Kyr in Europe
mutation: M253
current populations: found in 35% of the Scandinavian population (Southern Norway, South Western Sweden and Denmark), Iceland and Northwestern Europe

I1 is associated with the Viking conquest of Britian.

I2
origin: 15Kyr in Poland or south eastern Europe

mutation: M438
current populations: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, Sardinia, Spain (Basques), Denmark, Germany and Sweden

J origin:
30Kyr in Southwest Asia

mutation:
M304

current populations:
Arabia, the Near East, Southern Europe, Central Asia, South Asia, North Africa and the Horn of Africa

The distribution of haplogroups J, R1b and T among the ancient (pre-Western colonial) populations of Africa is closely correlated with the language distribution of the Afro-Asiatic superfamily.

J2
origin: 18.5Kyr in Turkey or Fertile Cresent
current populations: Turkey, the Levant, Mesopotamia, the South Caucasus, Iran, Central Asia and South Asia

J2 spread into the Mediterranean area with the influx of agricultural peoples from the Near East during the early Neolithic (~10Kyr). 29% of Sephardic Jews and 23% of Ashkenazi Jews carry J2.

N origin:
15-20Kyr in Southeast Asia

mutation:
M231

current populations:
Siberia, Eurasia and Europe (Finland 60%, Latvia and Lithuania 40%, Russia 20%)

N1c1
mutation: M46
current population: Siberia and northern Europe

R origin:
20-35Kyr in Central or South Asia

mutation:
M207

current populations:
Europe, Central and South Asia, the Middle East and Africa

The sub-clades of R are:
R1
origin: 12-25Kyr in Central or South Asia
mutation: M173
current populations: Europe, Western Asia, Africa, Siberia and the Americas

R1 is relatively common among male Amer-Indians - in North Eastern Canada and the US, triggering speculation that R1 was brought to the Americas recently during the time of the European Conquest.

R1 is believed to have existed long before the end of last Ice Age. It has been associated with the Aurignacian culture (32-21Kyr). Archeological evidence supports the view that the Aurignacian culture arrived from Anatolia during the Upper Paleolithic (rather than earlier theories which tied this culture to the Iranian plateau). The Aurignacian culture and Cro-Magnon, the first modern humans to enter Europe 35-40Kyr, are linked. However, the contention that Cro-Magnon males carried R1 has been challenged. Any link, connecting R1 to the Aurignacian culture, is weak as some estimates suggest that R1 arose only 18.5Kyr ago.

R1a
origin: 18.5Kyr in Asia, South Asia, Central Asia, Middle East or Eastern Europe
mutation: M420
current populations: Its distribution is associated with the re-settlement of Eurasia following the LGM - 18-22Kyr.

R1a1a
origin: 18.5Kyr in the Eurasian Steppes
mutation: M17
current populations: R1a1a, common in Europe, is associated with the expansion of the Kurgan people who spread Indo-European languages to Central Asia, India, Sri Lanka, Central, Northern and Eastern Europe. The Kurgans were pastoral nomads, who rode the horse and chariot, shot a compound bow, smelted bronze and worshipped the sky god. They conquered (or co-opted) many cultures, notably Greece and the Indus Valley civilization. They also invaded Babylon, establishing the 500 year long Kassite dynasty.

R1b
origin: 18.5Kyr in Western Asia
mutation: M343
current populations: R1b is the most common Y haplogroup in Western Europe. The present-day male population of Western Europe, carrying R1b, is believed to have descended from a "refugium" in the Iberian Peninsula (Portugal and Spain) during the LGM - where the R1b1b2 haplogroup achieved a "genetic homogeneity". After the ice sheets receded in Europe, these R1b carrying males (in part) re-colonized Europe. However, see a contrary discussion regarding R1b here. It's - further - speculated that in Old Europe the dominant Paleolithic (pre-LGM) Y haplogroup was IJ (not R1b).



http://nekhbet.com/haplo.shtml



H: Mitochondrial haplogroup H is a predominantly European haplogroup that participated in a population expansion beginning approximately 20,000 years ago. Today, about 30% of all mitochondrial lineages in Europe are classified as haplogroup H. It is rather uniformly distributed throughout Europe suggesting a major role in the peopling of Europe, and descendant lineages of the original haplogroup H appear in the Near East as a result of migration. Future work will better resolve the distribution and historical characteristics of this haplogroup. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Helena. [...]

HV: Mitochondrial haplogroup HV is a primarily European haplogroup that underwent an expansion beginning approximately 20,000 years ago. It is more prevalent in western Europe than in eastern Europe, and descendant lineages of the original haplogroup HV appear in the Near East as a result of more recent migration. One of the dominant mitochondrial haplogroups in Europe, haplogroup HV pre-dates the occurrence of farming in Europe. Future work will better resolve the distribution and historical characteristics of this haplogroup. [...]

I: Principally a European haplogroup, haplogroup I is detected at very low frequency across west Eurasia with slightly greater representation in northern and western Europe. Given its wide, but sparse, distribution, it is likely that it was present in those populations that first colonized Europe. This hypothesis is supported by the estimate its age—approximately 30,000 years. Bonnie Schrack in her mtDNA Haplogroup I project named this mtDNA haplogroup Iris. [...]

J*: The mitochondrial haplogroup J contains several sub-lineages. The original haplogroup J originated in the Near East approximately 50,000 years ago. Within Europe, sub-lineages of haplogroup J have distinct and interesting distributions. Haplogroup J* — the root lineage of haplogroup J — is found distributed throughout Europe, but at a relatively low frequency. Haplogroup J* is generally considered one of the prominent lineages that was part of the Neolithic spread of agriculture into Europe from the Near East beginning approximately 10,000 years ago. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Jasmine. [...]

J1b1: The mitochondrial haplogroup J contains several sub-lineages. The original haplogroup J originated in the Near East approximately 50,000 years ago. Within Europe, sub-lineages of haplogroup J have distinct and interesting distributions. Haplogroup J1b is found distributed in the Near East and southern Iberia, and may have been part of the original colonization wave of Neolithic settlers moving around the Mediterranean 6000 years ago or perhaps a lineage of Phoenician traders. Within haplogroup J1b, a derivative lineage haplogroup J1b1 has been found in Britain and another sub-lineage detected in Italy. Further research will better establish the relationship of these two geographically distant, yet evolutionarily related, haplogroups. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Jasmine. [...]

K: The mitochondrial super-haplogroup U encompasses haplogroups U1-U7 and haplogroup K. Haplogroup K is found through Europe, and contains multiple closely related lineages indicating a recent population expansion. The origin of haplogroup K dates to approximately 16,000 years ago, and it has been suggested that individuals with this haplogroup took part in the pre-Neolithic expansion following the Last Glacial Maximum. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Katrine. [...]

N: Haplogroup N. The N superhaplogroup has been characterized as pan-Eurasian. Haplogroup N is one of the two major trunks emerging from the original African root, and dates to approximately 65,000 years ago. Interestingly, several sub-haplogroups of the N cluster—haplogroup N1 and derivative lineages—have been detected in the Near East, suggesting either early divergence near the root of haplogroup N or subsequent migrations back towards western Eurasia following the original dispersal into east Eurasia. Future work will further document the historical distribution of this root haplogroup and closely related haplogroups within the N cluster. [...]

N1c: N1c specific mitochondrial haplogroups are typically found in different regions of the world, and this is due to unique population histories. In the process of spreading around the world, many populations—with their special mitochondrial haplogroups—became isolated, and specific haplogroups concentrated in geographic regions. Today, we have identified certain haplogroups that originated in Africa, Europe, Asia, the islands of the Pacific, the Americas, and even particular ethnic groups. Of course, haplogroups that are specific to one region are sometimes found in another, but this is due to recent migration. [...]

T: Haplogroup T is believed to have lived around 17,000 years ago in Nothern Italy. Tara's people would have come from the Near East, and her descendents spread all over Europe. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Tara. [...]

U2: Mitochondrial haplogroup U2. [...]


U5: The mitochondrial super-haplogroup U encompasses haplogroups U1-U7 and haplogroup K. Haplogroup U5, with its own multiple lineages nested within, is the oldest European-specific haplogroup, and its origin dates to approximately 50,000 years ago. Most likely arising in the Near East, and spreading into Europe in a very early expansion, the presence of haplogroup U5 in Europe pre-dates the expansion of agriculture in Europe. Haplogroup U5a1—a lineage within haplogroup U5—arose in Europe approximately 30,000 years ago, and is mainly found in northwest Europe. In the context of its rather ancient origin, the modern distribution of haplogroup U5a1 suggests that individuals bearing this haplogroup were part the initial expansion tracking the retreat of ice sheets from Europe. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Ursula. [...]


U6: The mitochondrial super-haplogroup U encompasses haplogroups U1-U7 and haplogroup K. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Ursula. [...]

U7: The mitochondrial super-haplogroup U encompasses haplogroups U1-U7 and haplogroup K. Haplogroup U7 has a Near Eastern origin approximately 30,000 years ago. Within Europe, it occurs at low frequency in the Caucasus. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Ursula. [...]

X: Haplogroup X is found in Europe and Asia, and is believed to have migrated to the Americas about 15,000 years ago, making up a very small component of the Native American population. Bryan Sykes in his Seven Daughters of Eve book named this mtDNA haplogroup Xenia. [...]

http://www.kerchner.com/haplogroups-mtdna.htm

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I didn't know until now that E1b is third most frequent y-dna in Europe, thnx for these useful infos bruv. :thumb001:

[Sacrificed Ram]

However, a competing theory runs that the parent of I (IJ) was the oldest Y haplogroup to appear in Europe - and that it (not R1b) was carried by the descendants of Cro-Magnon - at about 25Kyr.

And that C and F found?

[de Burgh II]

And that C and F found?

Y-Dna C* and O* being mainly East Eurasian haplogroups, but nevertheless has been found in some Mesolithic Europeans (C6* La Brana).

F* being another East Eurasian haplogroup.

[Rethel]

I didn't know until now that E1b is third most frequent y-dna in Europe, thnx for these useful infos bruv. :thumb001:

1. It depends how you devide haplotypes. 2. And is not. 6,26% is not too impresive,
especially, that N, J have similar number, and I2 and I1 have more than E each one
alone. Add R1a and R1b as separate clades as most of such comparisons do, and E
is going on the 5th place, almost exequo with N and J.

[jingorex]

Whats the theory on G1?

[Annie999]

The info Im getting from http://nekhbet.com/haplo.shtml on "H" MtDNA don't seem accurate and it's contradictory with the info from other sources. It says "H" is original of South Asia or Middle East and currently more prominent in India, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Romani people. Most sources (including the other link you posted) say "H" in an European halagroup found in Europe.

[Rethel]

Whats the theory on G1?

What do you mean? The identity?
The same as G2 - or at least this
is the only one, what you have,
MENA pre-Iranian type, and the
caucasian languages.

[jingorex]

The info Im getting from http://nekhbet.com/haplo.shtml on "H" MtDNA don't seem accurate and it's contradictory with the info from other sources. It says "H" is original of South Asia or Middle East and currently more prominent in India, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Romani people. Most sources (including the other link you posted) say "H" in an European halagroup found in Europe.

G1 is the worst...I'm G1, i look like a swarthy arab but my ancestry is 99.8 european.

what.the.fuck.am.i?

http://i68.tinypic.com/11v4qb5.jpg

[Petalpusher]

The info Im getting from http://nekhbet.com/haplo.shtml on "H" MtDNA don't seem accurate and it's contradictory with the info from other sources. It says "H" is original of South Asia or Middle East and currently more prominent in India, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Romani people. Most sources (including the other link you posted) say "H" in an European halagroup found in Europe.

I guess you re mixing up paternal and maternal dna. As an Y-dna H is found mainly in south Asia, while mtdna H is the most common in Europe.

[Annie999]

G1 is the worst...I'm G1, i look like a swarthy arab but my ancestry is 99.8 european.

what.the.fuck.am.i?

[IM[/IMG]
Hmm? Your look/phenotype has nothing to do with your halagroups. We're speaking of a paternal or maternal line that was generated thousands of years ago, your current look is obsolete to that.

[Annie999]

I guess you re mixing up paternal and maternal dna. As an Y-dna H is found mainly in south Asia, while mtdna H is the most common in Europe.

Oh, I didnt know there was an "H" Y-dna so I just searched for "H" and took it for granted it was the maternal line. Thanks for the info :)

[Rethel]

G1 is the worst...I'm G1, i look like a swarthy arab but my ancestry is 99.8 european.

Why the worst?

You are very lucky. You are phenotypically more
similar to original G1-folk, so you should be glad,
that your look fits to the tribe.

Think about those nordic E1, or negro
R1... they have problem, you don;t :)

p.s. could be that your ancestor who was adopted, was from ME?

[de Burgh II]

Whats the theory on G1?

Essentially European Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer's were indigenously I* and U* for paternal and maternal haplogroups.

Then, Neolithic farmers came via Southeastern Europe and Iberian Peninsula routes. G* being predominantly early Neolithic that led to the mixing with European Hunter Gatherers that coincided with I* at this time. During Neolithic Age (7000 BCE - 3000 BCE); during the middle and late age of this Neolithic time came E* and J* mixed with G* and I* via the routes that made G* and I* relatively rare nowadays that can only be found in isolated areas where these haplogroup mutations still stand/ didn't get overtaken by R*, J* and E*. Then during the Bronze Age (roughly 3200 BCE), Indo-European steppe peoples (R*) came from the East and mixed with everyone and brought to what we know as today as Indo-European languages. Mt-dna-wise; H*, T2*, K*, HV*, J2* haplogroups have been postulated to have came from 3 routes/ mutation sites being the Iberian Peninsula, Balkans./S.E. Europe and West Asia when the ice sheets overtook Europe during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) c. 25,000–13,000 years ago. U* being a native European Mt-DNA haplogroup with the maternal lineage of hunter-gatherers.

Essentially G* paternally came with early neolithic farmers.

[jingorex]

Why the worst?

You are very lucky. You are phenotypically more
similar to original G1-folk, so you should be glad,
that your look fits to the tribe.

Think about those nordic E1, or negro
R1... they have problem, you don;t :)

p.s. could be that your ancestor who was adopted, was from ME?

I guess by 'worst' i mean frustrating to understand.

i just dont get how my paternal ancestor can be from central asia but my ancestry is 99.8% european.

Shouldn't my ancestry track more central asian, than instead 99.8% european?

[de Burgh II]

Hmm? Your look/phenotype has nothing to do with your halagroups. We're speaking of a paternal or maternal line that was generated thousands of years ago, your current look is obsolete to that.

If you would want to find more information/scholarly journals for your haplogroup you can use google scholar to find more information in deeper detail: https://scholar.google.com/

Nevertheless, they did Italian H* sample distributions in this study (Bodner et al., 2015) if you are interested :nod::
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S187249731400194X-gr2.jpg

http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S187249731400194X-gr3.jpg

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187249731400194X

[Petalpusher]

I guess by 'worst' i mean frustrating to understand.

i just dont get how my paternal ancestor can be from central asia but my ancestry is 99.8% european.

Shouldn't my ancestry track more central asian, than instead 99.8% european?

Not 50 000 years ago... Add another 50k, we would all be Africans, a few millions years, chimps, a few hundreds, fish, never stops... What matters is who you are most similar to, today. That's all other Europeans, we are defined by ourselves.


G was also most likely connected to Paleolithic Europe through Gravettian cultures, that's why they had WHG related admixture before they even entered, what is now, Europe. Everything is connected somehow, you have to forget everything you know in terms of borders, completely, as much as you go back in time.

[jingorex]

Essentially European Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer's were indigenously I* and U* for paternal and maternal haplogroups.

Then, Neolithic farmers came via Southeastern Europe and Iberian Peninsula routes. G* being predominantly early Neolithic that led to the mixing with European Hunter Gatherers that coincided with I* at this time. During Neolithic Age (7000 BCE - 3000 BCE); during the middle and late age of this Neolithic time came E* and J* mixed with G* and I* via the routes that made G* and I* relatively rare nowadays that can only be found in isolated areas where these haplogroup mutations still stand/ didn't get overtaken by R*, J* and E*. Then during the Bronze Age (roughly 3200 BCE), Indo-European steppe peoples (R*) came from the East and mixed with everyone and brought to what we know as today as Indo-European languages. Mt-dna-wise; H*, T2*, K*, HV*, J2* haplogroups have been postulated to have came from 3 routes/ mutation sites being the Iberian Peninsula, Balkans./S.E. Europe and West Asia when the ice sheets overtook Europe during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) c. 25,000–13,000 years ago. U* being a native European Mt-DNA haplogroup with the maternal lineage of hunter-gatherers.

Essentially G* paternally came with early neolithic farmers.


Maybe i'm just getting hung up on the 'european' nomenclature and it doesnt mean what i think it means in relation to 'ancestry'.

When i hear ancestry, i think: 'where you come from' and the fact G1 is rare in europe just makes it more frustrating.

[Rethel]

I guess by 'worst' i mean frustrating to understand.

Then T is much "worse" :)

Or F*, or P* and many others... :)

G1 is quite easy comparing to them.


i just dont get how my paternal ancestor can be from central asia but my ancestry is 99.8% european.

Autosomaly = racialy you are european.
Your ascendency is 99.8% european, but ancestry don;t.
Simply, your ancestors were buying european girls, thats all.


Shouldn't my ancestry track more central asian, than instead 99.8% european?

No. But it doesn;t matter anyway.
Autosomal DNA only makes water from brain.

[Rethel]

Not 50 000 years ago... Add another 50k,

Why do you count so lightly... add yet ten zeros...
500 000 000 000 000 years will be much better! :laugh:


a few millions years, chimps, a few hundreds, fish, never stops...

I was guessing, that you could be a chimp, but I would never guess that
you are a fish. Now you at least confim it, and now I understand, why you
write so much idiocy sometimes. If you are a chimp, it is totaly natural...


What matters is who you are most similar to, today

We know, that you are the most similar to the chimps and fishes. Wonderfull!

Petalpusher:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xZvnV1VefmE/T5_m7qOBHYI/AAAAAAAAAY8/Wqs5c_ZmtOo/s1600/monkeyfish1.jpg

[Annie999]

If you would want to find more information/scholarly journals for your haplogroup you can use google scholar to find more information in deeper detail: https://scholar.google.com/

Nevertheless, they did Italian H* sample distributions in this study (Bodner et al., 2015) if you are interested :nod::
http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S187249731400194X-gr2.jpg



Wow, the farthest back I can track my maternal line is Liguria, which according to that source exactly fits my halagroup "H1" :) Very interesting, thanks.

[jingorex]

G1 is quite easy comparing to them.

Autosomaly = racialy you are european.
Your ascendency is 99.8% european, but ancestry don;t.
Simply, your ancestors were buying european girls, thats all..

May i just say that; ive always appreciated your sage council :D

http://i64.tinypic.com/6rnfi9.jpg

[Rethel]

Maybe i'm just getting hung up on the 'european' nomenclature and it doesnt mean what i think it means in relation to 'ancestry'.
When i hear ancestry, i think: 'where you come from' and the fact G1 is rare in europe just makes it more frustrating.

No, you get it quite right.
Simply TA-idiots here are confusly using some words in
wrong meaning on purpose, to sell their idiotic agenda.

[jingorex]

Gravettian cultures

THIS is why i keep coming back to the apricity! Always learning new stuff!

[Rethel]

THIS is why i keep coming back to the apricity! Always learning new stuff!

But probably this gravettian which he has on mind,
is from Caucasus, more like epigravettian, which I
would rather link with I-people, but who knows.

And of course it was not so old, as these fictional
hundrets and dozens of thousands of years which
Petal-chimp-fish-pusher is saying about.

[Peterski]

G1 is mysterious. Have any ancient samples of G1 been discovered so far?

[jingorex]

G origin:
15-35Kyr in Near East or Southern Asia

G was one of the "F-scale" haplogroups "injected" into the (R1b and I) populations of Old Europe during the Neolithic expansion of peoples from the Near East about 10Kyr.

What does "F-scale" haplogroup mean?

[Rethel]

G1 is mysterious. Have any ancient samples of G1 been discovered so far?

Wasn't it in neolithic Iran?

[Peterski]

Wasn't it in neolithic Iran?

Yeah I think you are right, I forgot about that.

[Peterski]

What does "F-scale" haplogroup mean?

Maybe it means that G is one of haplogroups descended from F?:

http://s32.postimg.org/k8goin551/YDNA_Tree.png

[jingorex]

Maybe it means that G is one of haplogroups descended from F?:

]

Ah...that makes sense. Thanks.

Google returned results:
The California F-scale is a 1947 personality test, designed by Theodor W. Adorno and others to measure the authoritarian personality. The "F" stands for "fascist".

Fuck google.

[Petalpusher]

90% of the males in the world have an haplogroup descended from F. That's what they call an "F-scale" haplogroup as G descends directly from F.

[XenophobicPrussian]

A/B - Sub-Saharan African
C/D - Negrito/Oceanian/Australoid,
I(and MAYBE J) - European(and European includes genetic paleo-Euros in the paleolithic Near East if it formed there)
N/O - Mongoloid
Q/R - Amerindian
J(maybe) L, T, E(no SSA in Natufians, so E is def Eurasian), G - Basal Eurasian/proto-semite/brown people

All the downstream haplogroups and sub-clades are irrelevant(muh I2a2b2kdj2ej2!).

[de Burgh II]

Maybe i'm just getting hung up on the 'european' nomenclature and it doesnt mean what i think it means in relation to 'ancestry'.

When i hear ancestry, i think: 'where you come from' and the fact G1 is rare in europe just makes it more frustrating.

Thats understandable. Essentially, haplogroups are essentially a combination of mutations via the Y-Chromosome that is carried by sperm with 22 autosomes (non sex-cells denoting X and or Y chromosomes that sperm carries before fertilization/meiosis) past down to each descendant of males.

I took the liberty to look into your y-dna haplogroup. From what it seems it is generally a West Asian/Western Eurasian haplogroup. I'm not too sure about the phylogenetic dispersion of G* overall; but I found this study quite interesting if you want to have a look:

This allowed detailed phylogenetic reconstruction. We identified five branches, all with high geographical specificity: G1-L1323 in Kazakhs, the closely related G1-GG1 in Mongols, G1-GG265 in Armenians and its distant brother clade G1-GG162 in Bashkirs, and G1-GG362 in West Indians. The haplotype diversity, which decreased from West Iran to Central Asia, allows us to hypothesize that this rare haplogroup could have been carried by the expansion of Iranic speakers northwards to the Eurasian steppe and via founder effects became a predominant genetic component of some populations, including the Argyn tribe of the Kazakhs. [...]

[...]G1 is an estimate of its age from Y-STR markers (19,000 ± 6,000 years). However, newly accumulated data indicate that G1 is present over a wider area in the Eurasian steppe than in Madjars only [10], and it also reaches very high frequencies in geographically distant populations of the Armenian plateau (Table 1). Thus, haplogroup G1 might mark an ancient genetic link between Iranic speakers of South-West Asia and populations of the Central Asian steppes where Iranian speech predominated in the second and first millennia BC (Fig 1A). However, the place of origin of this haplogroup remains unclear, and it is unknown whether South-West Asians and Madjars have the same or different subbranches of haplogroup G1, what the age of the branch(es) are, and which ancient migrations contributed to the contemporary distribution and diversity of this haplogroup. [...]

https://s17.postimg.org/6wxkrc3a7/Untitled.jpg

https://s10.postimg.org/nnr3vhocp/Untitledd.jpg

The frequency distribution of the haplogroup G1

The frequency distribution of haplogroup G1 in Eurasia is presented in Fig 2, which is based on the dataset from Table 1. This haplogroup is distributed over a large area from Italy in the west to Mongolia in the east, but is present at high frequencies only in an uninterrupted area including the Central Asian steppes and Iranian-Armenian plateau. Two frequency peaks can be seen at the opposite sides of this area, namely in North Kazakhstan (up to 80%) within the steppe part and in Armenia (up to 42%) within its mountainous part. In Kazakhs, haplogroup G1 is typical of the Argyn tribe: among 291 G1 samples with known tribal affiliation in Kazakhs, 262 (90%) belong to the Argyn tribe. In Armenians, this haplogroup is particularly frequent in Hemsheni Armenians (42%). Both populations are not small: according to a census performed in the beginning of the 20th century—tribal affiliation was not recorded in later censuses—there were around 500,000 Argyns [36] and now the population is expected to be larger; the estimated present-day number of Hemsheni Armenians is 150,000 [35]. Thus, the increased frequency of G1 cannot be explained by recent genetic drift and likely indicates drift during the formation of these populations many centuries ago.

It is notable that the area of haplogroup G1, including the Eurasian steppes from the North Black Sea region to the Mongolian Altai and South-Western Asian uplands (Iran and historical Great Armenia), corresponds well with the area populated by Iranic speakers in the second and first millennia BC (Fig 1A). This correspondence was statistically confirmed by AMOVA (S3 Table). [...]

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g004

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g001

The pattern of geographic distribution of haplogroup G1-M285 is to some degree exceptional, as it cannot be called either a West-Eurasian or an East-Eurasian lineage (Fig 2). Instead, its spread zone corresponds well with the area of ancient Iranic-speaking groups who dwelled both on the Iranian plateau (and neighboring uplands) and Eurasian steppe. The increased dataset on G1 frequencies and STR-variation leaves little doubt that G1 is partitioned into a small number of clusters (branches), each frequent in a particular population. It became very clear from the phylogenetic tree based on full Y-chromosomal sequences that the geographic specificity of G1 branches is virtually absolute, as all five branches are specific, respectively, to West Indians, Kazakhs, Mongols, Bashkirs, and Armenians, although further sampling in Iran and Central Asian countries may reveal additional minor branches.

The question arises of whether the homeland of G1 was in steppe or mountains. Much higher STR variation in the west part of the Iranian-Armenian plateau makes the mountain homeland a more probable candidate. This conclusion fits the Anatolian theory of Indo-European origins, and the pattern of STR diversity (Fig 4) fits especially well. Migrations from Iran to Central Asia are also clear from paleoanthropological data [19,29]. Though haplogroup G1 certainly cannot serve as a marker for the Indo-European expansion in general, this haplogroup might be a genetic component carried by a wave of Iranic-speaker migration and brought northward to the Eurasian steppe. The genetic dates suggest that all principal branches already existed when this migration started. Indeed, even the last split into the Bashkir and Armenian clusters is dated back to 8000 YBP (S5 Table), while the Armenian linguistic branch separated around 4600 YBP and Indo-Iranian languages separated around 4200 YBP (http://starling.rinet.ru/new100/eurasia_long.jpg). Haplogroup G1 might remain a minor genetic component among many Eurasian and particularly Iranic-speaking populations (as it is now rare, for example, in Italy and West India, though more frequent in its possible homeland in Iran/Armenia). When Turkic languages replaced Iranic ones in the steppes (perhaps starting from the middle of the 1st millennium AD) the G1-carriers were probably assimilated into expanding Turkic and then Mongolian-speaking populations. In more recent times, haplogroup G1 has undergone three independent expansions in different geographic regions, shown by the full-Y-chromosomal analysis (Fig 5).

The expansion in Kazakhs is genetically dated to an interval of 470–750 YBP, using the range of published mutation rate point estimates [17,37,41,50]. The genealogical ancestor of the Argyn Kazakh (the main carriers of this haplogroup) lived 600 years ago, which lies in the middle of this range. Expansion from a single man to half a million descendants within 500 years (20 generations) is not really surprising. Indeed, having two surviving sons in every generation gives half a million descendants in the 19th generation and Kazakh families had 3.5 children on average [36]. Also, an even more impressive expansion up to 16 million descendants was suggested for the same medieval steppe societies [53]. Note that the traditional genealogical partitioning of Argyns into three clans corresponds well with the Y-STR data (S4 Fig). This finding also questions the hypothesis [5] about the relationship between the Argyn subclan Madjars and Magyars (Hungarians), because haplogroup G1 (comprising 82% of the Madjar gene pool) finds its place within other Argyn Kazakh (S4 Fig) while no G1 samples have been reported in Hungarians so far.

The expansion in the Hemsheni Armenian is genetically dated to 1150 YBP using our rate (S5 Table). It corresponds well with the historical evidence [30,48] that the Hemsheni originated from relatives and servants of Prince Shapuh Amatuni, who migrated in 791 from the Abbasid Persian state.

The expansion in the Kangly tribe of Bashkirs is genetically dated to the 15th century AD (S5 Table). This tribe originated from the Pechenegs around the 8th century AD, then joined the Bashkirs, and later expansion in a restricted part of the tribe might have been caused by demographic changes when it became part of the Golden Horde in the 14th century and part of the Russian state in 16th century.

We note that despite geographic proximity, the ancestor of the G1 cluster in Bashkirs had no close genetic relationship to the corresponding ancestor in Kazakhs. These branches (and the third branch detected in Mongolians) have survived in the Eurasian steppe perhaps since the Scythian epoch.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0122968.g002


http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0122968

If I had to guess now; its origins are Iranic/Caucasian (Caucasus) and Scythian due to them being Iranic steepe peoples that got assimilated by Mongols/Turkic tribes in Central Asia probably via the Golden Horde. Since Central Asians are a fusion of Caucasoid and Mongoloid elements; it shouldn't be a surprise they have mixed West and East Eurasian haplogroups.

Nevertheless, there is native presence of it in Italy which I'm going to assume is its own phylogeny that is independent of the Iranic/Caucasian branches that came during early neolithic times. Maybe the G1 haplogroup is a convergent Italic branch.... :shrug:

[Petalpusher]

A/B - Sub-Saharan African
C/D - Negrito/Oceanian/Australoid,
I(and MAYBE J) - European(and European includes genetic paleo-Euros in the paleolithic Near East if it formed there)
N/O - Mongoloid
Q/R - Amerindian
J(maybe) L, T, E(no SSA in Natufians, so E is def Eurasian), G - Basal Eurasian/proto-semite/brown people

All the downstream haplogroups and sub-clades are irrelevant(muh I2a2b2kdj2ej2!).

This more the contrary on the last part, see where is E, see where is G..

https://rokus01.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/ydna-genetic-tree.jpg

[Peterski]

90% of the males in the world have an haplogroup descended from F.

90% ??? I don't think so, maybe around 3/4 of the males in the world.

For example in Sub-Saharan Africa there are hardly any F descendants.

[Rethel]

I(and MAYBE J) - European(and European includes genetic paleo-Euros in the paleolithic Near East if it formed there)
Q/R - Amerindian

Why did you developed a new bizzarness?
When you just going well entering the right path,
you always have to create something new.
Everything, but not R1, but not white IE. :picard2:
This selfhateredness is gong bizzare...

Can I be a Mohican now? :)

[Petalpusher]

90% ??? I don't think so, maybe around 2/3 of the males in the world.

For example in Sub-Saharan Africa there are hardly any F descendants.

I meant outside of Africa. Always thinking out of Africa with Y-dna for some reasons.

[XenophobicPrussian]

This more the contrary on the last part, see where is E, see where is G..

https://rokus01.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/ydna-genetic-tree.jpg
DE/CF people in the early paleolithic Middle-East probably would've already been mixing with eachother already if E/G are from the same area, so autosomally they likely would've been the same race(our OoA Oceanian ancestors evolving into Basal Eurasian). It's hard for me to imagine Onge people introducing E or G to Basal Eurasians after Basal Eurasians had already taken form but I guess it's possible.

Also, looking at L/T on that chart, L/T might actually be Ust-Ishim Mongoloid rather than Basal Eurasian. Early Mongoloid invasion of the Basal Eurasian Middle-East I guess.

[Petalpusher]

DE/CF people in the early paleolithic Middle-East probably would've already been mixing with eachother already if E/G are from the same area, so autosomally they likely would've been the same race(our OoA Oceanian ancestors evolving into Basal Eurasian). It's hard for me to imagine Onge people introducing E or G to Basal Eurasians after Basal Eurasians had already taken form but I guess it's possible.

Also, looking at L/T on that chart, L/T might actually be Ust-Ishim Mongoloid rather than Basal Eurasian. Early Mongoloid invasion of the Basal Eurasian Middle-East I guess.

You don't need to imagine all that.

https://s16.postimg.org/4yfqxg8z9/Haplogroup_F_Y_DNA.jpg


There's no E here, since it doesn't descend from F but more directly from African lineages. Just like D (Onge/Andamanese)

Even factually Natufians (pred E) in the same time frame were still more Basal Eurasian than G people.

[jingorex]

If I had to guess now; its origins are Iranic/Caucasian (Caucasus) and Scythian due to them being Iranic steepe peoples that got assimilated by Mongols/Turkic tribes in Central Asia probably via the Golden Horde. Since Central Asians are a fusion of Caucasoid and Mongoloid elements; it shouldn't be a surprise they have mixed West and East Eurasian haplogroups.

Nevertheless, there is native presence of it in Italy which I'm going to assume is its own phylogeny that is independent of the Iranic/Caucasian branches that came during early neolithic times. Maybe the G1 haplogroup is a convergent Italic branch.... :shrug:

Ive read some papers that mentioned the Scythian G1 link and i figure that is probably the most recent, non "european" link i can work with.

So, that lead me to a book titled "From Scythia to Camelot" that tries to cover history from about the time of Hadrian's Wall. The theory goes like this: Marcus Aurelius defeated some Scythian tribes and rolled them into his legions. He sent those Scythian Heavy Horseman (many most likely G1) to the British Isles to: 1. remove them from their land and stop any potential for insurgency and 2. squash the uprising of picts and other tribes on the British Isles.

It goes on to suggest that those Scythian Heavy Horse brought the legend of mounted knights to Britain...it gets sketchy after that.

I'd really like to believe it all, but of course it throws a wrench in the whole 'Arthurian Cycle' and pisses off a lot of self identifying Celts.

I guess it could be as simple as some drunk G mongo who managed to stumble across the alps and make his way to NW Europe and throw some serious cock around...in which case i would also be OK with it.

Thank you for looking deeper into it.

[XenophobicPrussian]

You don't need to imagine all that.

https://s16.postimg.org/4yfqxg8z9/Haplogroup_F_Y_DNA.jpg


There's no E here, since it doesn't descend from F but more directly from African lineages. Just like D (Onge/Andamanese)

Even factually Natufians (pred E) in the same time frame were still more Basal Eurasian than G people.
So you're saying all Eurasian non-E y-dna is originally paleo Euro or Mongoloid and Basal Eurasians could've even been only confined to east Africa or southern Arabian peninsula?

[de Burgh II]

1) First download this 23andme converter software to y-dna snps:
http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/23andme-to-ysnps.html

2) Download ISOGG Y-Tree add on app via chrome:
https://s11.postimg.org/p0ickn1nn/Untitledddddd.jpg

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/isogg-y-tree-addon/cfnjeahambijfdljfacldifapdcklhnj?hl=en

3) Next, on the app on download page in Microsoft folder:
https://s13.postimg.org/6sjla2so7/Untitleddddddddddd.jpg

4) Next go to file ----> open 23andme raw data
https://s13.postimg.org/ubbunm9w7/Untitledddddddddddddddddddd.jpg

5) Open up 23andme raw data autosomal file

6) Do this in software: File ----> Save Y-SNPs

https://s17.postimg.org/7ayhoj44v/untileddddddddd.jpg

7) Save data as text file via "Save As..." and right click the text file above with command: "open with" -------> Notepad

https://s31.postimg.org/cbwuf918r/Untitleddddddde.jpg

8) Once opened in notepad: Highlight all the text and right click mouse and press Copy
https://s23.postimg.org/84ad0aiij/Untitleddddr.jpg

9) In chrome: Go to Settings ----> Extensions
and Click options hyperlink next to the ISOGG addon app:
https://s3.postimg.org/ifa3ov45f/Untitleddddddw.jpg

10) Paste your data into one of the dialog boxes and name it whatever you want and hit the save settings at the top:
https://s18.postimg.org/4cyjjlgy1/Untitledddddddc.jpg

11) Go to ISOGG 2017 website and click on designated y-dna haplogroup:
http://isogg.org/tree/

12) Scroll down page when data from app is loaded and find a green highlighted text that will denote our own peculiar y-dna mutation:

https://s8.postimg.org/mwzyg8rvp/Untitledddddf.jpg

Thus, my haplogroup would be "R-l48."

[de Burgh II]

Ive read some papers that mentioned the Scythian G1 link and i figure that is probably the most recent, non "european" link i can work with.

So, that lead me to a book titled "From Scythia to Camelot" that tries to cover history from about the time of Hadrian's Wall. The theory goes like this: Marcus Aurelius defeated some Scythian tribes and rolled them into his legions. He sent those Scythian Heavy Horseman (many most likely G1) to the British Isles to: 1. remove them from their land and stop any potential for insurgency and 2. squash the uprising of picts and other tribes on the British Isles.

It goes on to suggest that those Scythian Heavy Horse brought the legend of mounted knights to Britain...it gets sketchy after that.

I'd really like to believe it all, but of course it throws a wrench in the whole 'Arthurian Cycle' and pisses off a lot of self identifying Celts.

I guess it could be as simple as some drunk G mongo who managed to stumble across the alps and make his way to NW Europe and throw some serious cock around...in which case i would also be OK with it.

Thank you for looking deeper into it.

Anything is possible! :p

[Norka]

Why the worst?

You are very lucky. You are phenotypically more
similar to original G1-folk, so you should be glad,
that your look fits to the tribe.

Think about those nordic E1, or negro
R1... they have problem, you don;t :)

p.s. could be that your ancestor who was adopted, was from ME?

You are such a fucking retard its going beyond funny. Y-DNA has nothing to do with the way you look. Your little pepper prick dick is the result of your Y-DNA and nothing more. The reason you have a recessive jaw line is because you have autosomal Germano-Polako dna and because you are a severe mouth breather.

[jingorex]

1) First download this 23andme converter software to y-dna snps:

Here's what i got.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x2j8uv.jpg

[jingorex]

and i went to red on G2.

http://i67.tinypic.com/208d5b7.jpg

[de Burgh II]

Here's what i got.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x2j8uv.jpg

Alright, it would seem you are G-M342* mutation.

After quick search this is what I pin-pointed from this site:

G1-M342, arose about 27.000 ybp, has its highest concentrations in Iran, and somewhat less to the north and west of Iran.

http://www.marres.nl/afb/haplogroup_G1_tree.png

http://www.marres.nl/afb/Haplogroup_G_distribution.png


Haplogroup G formed approximately 50,000 years ago as a side lineage of haplogroup IJK, but seems to have had a slow start, evolving in isolation for tens of thousands of years, possibly in the Near East, cut off from the wave of colonisation of Eurasia. (1) Now about 2,5 % of the World population has this haplogroup.

http://www.marres.nl/afb/Haplogroup_G_firtst_location_T.Kandell_a.jpg

http://www.marres.education/haplogroup_G.htm

[Peterski]

Can I be a Mohican now?

The last of the Mazovians! :)

[jingorex]

Alright, it would seem you are G-M342* mutation.

After quick search this is what I pin-pointed from this site:

G1-M342, arose about 27.000 ybp, has its highest concentrations in Iran, and somewhat less to the north and west of Iran.


Well i guess that explains why i ALWAYS get an anal cavity search every time i fly somewhere...i always thought it was just because i was sexy :(

[de Burgh II]

Well i guess that explains why i ALWAYS get an anal cavity search every time i fly somewhere...i always thought it was just because i was sexy :(

They are just jelly over your Scythian-American looks!

Haters gonna hate! ;)

[Rethel]

https://s16.postimg.org/4yfqxg8z9/Haplogroup_F_Y_DNA.jpg

Did you just start to belive in Genesis 11? :blink:

[Rethel]

You are such a fucking retard its going beyond funny.

You are much more, becasue you just prooved that you are reading fictional
posts, created in your sick head, you petty frustrated kazakh hater of yourself.


Y-DNA has nothing to do with the way you look.

And where did I write it?

[Voskos]

Think about those nordic E1, or negro
R1... they have problem,


:D

[jingorex]

Alright, it would seem you are G-M342* mutation.

After quick search this is what I pin-pointed from this site:

G1-M342, arose about 27.000 ybp, has its highest concentrations in Iran, and somewhat less to the north and west of Iran.

http://www.marres.nl/afb/haplogroup_G1_tree.png

http://www.marres.nl/afb/Haplogroup_G_distribution.png



http://www.marres.nl/afb/Haplogroup_G_firtst_location_T.Kandell_a.jpg

http://www.marres.education/haplogroup_G.htm


Group admin says im almost definite L1324. I only did y37 and these are my people.

[Rethel]

http://www.marres.nl/afb/Haplogroup_G_firtst_location_T.Kandell_a.jpg

Very doubtfull.

[jingorex]

Very doubtfull.

do you think more central and west?

[Rethel]

do you think more central and west?

Truelly hard to say, but rather triangle Anatolia-Abkhazia-Ayran - so more northern, eastern and western :)

Aha... and the timing is obviously fictional.

[jingorex]

Truelly hard to say, but rather triangle Anatolia-Abkhazia-Ayran - so more northern, eastern and western :)

Aha... and the timing is obviously fictional.

i'm a terrible sinner and representative but i would love to bring Jesus Christ back to Chechnya, with a vengeance. :usa2:

[Kelmendasi]

How do you add your Ftdna kit/markers to ISOGG Y tree?

[Petalpusher]

More than enough

https://s17.postimg.org/d9ymwbfjz/Anthropogenesis-_Poznik_YDNATree-copy.jpg

[Rethel]

More than enough

https://s17.postimg.org/d9ymwbfjz/Anthropogenesis-_Poznik_YDNATree-copy.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/28/e3/78/28e3785fbf35fcb3d2c8487a1db02cd8.gif

[Harkonnen]

More than enough

https://s17.postimg.org/d9ymwbfjz/Anthropogenesis-_Poznik_YDNATree-copy.jpg

This is an outdated tree. Per the new Karafet paper P (pre-RQ) is closer phylogenetically to M and S etc than to NO. Since these haplos are confined in Island South East Asia, it is obvious without doubt that R's origin is in Papua New Guinea.

[Ülev]

This is an outdated tree. Per the new Karafet paper P (pre-RQ) is closer phylogenetically to M and S etc than to NO. Since these haplos are confined in Island South East Asia, it is obvious without doubt that R's origin is in Papua New Guinea.

Papua? - ok, I am ready to change my data again, I like Papua's climate

[Rethel]

R's origin is in Papua New Guinea.

So you see - even Papuans beatted you out... :laugh:

[Harkonnen]

So you see - even Papuans beatted you out... :laugh:

NO is the first original European haplogroup: 35-40K Oase from Romania.
R originated in Papua without doubt.

[Petalpusher]

This is an outdated tree. Per the new Karafet paper P (pre-RQ) is closer phylogenetically to M and S etc than to NO. Since these haplos are confined in Island South East Asia, it is obvious without doubt that R's origin is in Papua New Guinea.

Possible, do you mean this one?

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n3/images/ejhg2014106f1.jpg

[Kriptc06]

Official theme for this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwWPadFsOA

[Rethel]

NO is the first original European haplogroup: 35-40K Oase from Romania.
R originated in Papua without doubt.

==>>> Papuans beated NO i Europe and in addition your I1. :p

[Harkonnen]

This picture tells it all, P is the Brother of M and S. I suspect Mal'ta boy was a recent emigrant from the Philippines who had admixed with the original ANE inhabitants of North Eurasia:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xIyCVSPSm3I/U5LqVD5nawI/AAAAAAAACsM/TEjs1OTRu7k/s1600/Karafet-Y-DNA-K-tree-annotated.png

[Harkonnen]

==>>> Papuans beated NO i Europe and in addition your I1. :p

Nonsense Oase was NO as was Ust-Ishim in Siberia: early NO lingered somewhere in the areas between Europe, Siberia and Central Asia. By the time R pushed north from South East Asia, West Eurasian N's pushed into North West China mixing with the Chinks. There is very early split in Euro/Siberian N and Chinese N1c1: Chinese N pushed further into East Asia whereas Euro/Siberian N1c1 lingered in this area between steppe and North West China.

[Harkonnen]

Check also this paper which modelled Oase and Ust-Ishim as West Eurasian and Mal'ta mixed with East Eurasian: this agrees with the phylogyny: early R has a very obvious Negrito origin.


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?200837-A-working-model-of-the-deep-relationships-of-diverse-modern-human-genetic-lineages-outside-of-Africa

[Journeyman26]

One of (if not the) the only members on the site with the rare mtDNA haplogroup X.. specifically X2d. Not sure if X2d1 or X2d2

X2d: found in central and eastern Europe, Italy, Georgia and Turkmenistan
X2d1: found in Italy, Germany and Poland
X2d2: found in Neolithic Anatolia

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-X-map.png

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

This picture tells it all, P is the Brother of M and S. I suspect Mal'ta boy was a recent emigrant from the Philippines who had admixed with the original ANE inhabitants of North Eurasia:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xIyCVSPSm3I/U5LqVD5nawI/AAAAAAAACsM/TEjs1OTRu7k/s1600/Karafet-Y-DNA-K-tree-annotated.png


xD
haplo R origins papua new guinea.
R ethelites xD

[Rethel]

xD
haplo R origins papua new guinea.
R ethelites xD

Listen to him more... :picard2:

[Ülev]

xD
haplo R origins papua new guinea.
R ethelites xD

I just found R1a pride - blond hairs here

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Friends2.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papuan_people

now everything make sense

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Listen to him more... :picard2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K-M9#Origins_and_distribution

Maybe not papua but its definitely from asia or something
Haplogroup R originated somewhere in the East it looks like. But then migrated westward and invaded the real Europeans.
https://s11.postimg.org/3mi7wkglv/bandicam_2017-03-26_13-50-01-094.jpg

This probably means IJ are the first Europeans. R would probably not be it. then J migrated eastward and then Euro J2 migrated back into Europe I stayed in Europe the whole time

[Danaan]

Maybe i'm just getting hung up on the 'european' nomenclature and it doesnt mean what i think it means in relation to 'ancestry'.

When i hear ancestry, i think: 'where you come from' and the fact G1 is rare in europe just makes it more frustrating.

'European' is mostly Asiatic.

[Ülev]

Europe is a small Peninsula on Asian continent, yes!