Principal Component Analysis (PCA) from Lazaridis et al. 2016

[RN97]

One of the latest PCA maps that I know of that is reliable

https://polishgenes.blogspot.no/2016/06/poles-in-new-human-origins-dataset.html
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3803/33016272762_2f3e139a15_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Six2C7)

[nightrider+]

http://oi67.tinypic.com/9fmnpi.jpg

[RN97]

[I.jpg[/IMG]
Do you know what EHG is?
Is it like a ANE-like component? Also is neolithic Iran fully caucasoid?

[nightrider+]

Do you know what EHG is? Is it like a ANE-like component?

Eastern European hunter-gatherers. Like Scandinavian hunter-gatherers, supposedly more East Asian shifted, yet lighter pigmented than WHG. Somehow related to WHG and ANE.


Also is neolithic Iran fully caucasoid?

This question is anthropological. I don't know, most modern Iranians are afaik.

[Percivalle]

One of the latest PCA maps that I know of that is reliable

It's reliable (for the Italians is based on the usual samples). But those in the red circle are Tuscans, labelled wrongly by Lazaridis as North Italian.

http://i.imgur.com/a8ott3P.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Sicilian sample is Syracuse and Trapani, and it plots where it should: with Ashkenazim and Maltese, and roughly halfway between Spain and the Levant, and slightly MENA-shifted from the Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Also interesting Lithuanians are plotting not with Slavs, but with Finns.

[Sikeliot]

Also, some of the Bulgarians do overlap with the Greeks.. given the way the Balkans plots here, it looks like the Bulgarians are more Hellenized rather than Greeks are Slavicized.

Still, the Greeks do shift toward Russia relative to the Sicilians, and are shifting northeast not northwest.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Eastern European hunter-gatherers. Like Scandinavian hunter-gatherers, supposedly more East Asian shifted, yet lighter pigmented than WHG. Somehow related to WHG and ANE.

Lighter skin(supposedly anyway), 3 of 4 EHGs(Samara, Karelia HG, Latvia MN2, one of the Khvalynsk samples) were brown eyed, while all WHGs were light eyed. SHGs were also lighter skinned than EHGs.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Do you know what EHG is?
Is it like a ANE-like component? Also is neolithic Iran fully caucasoid?
EHG is WHG+ANE. Neolithic Iran is Basal Eurasian(basically the main ancestry of modern MENA people, peaking in Bedouins and Natufians) with extra ANE. ANE really got around, and is likely where South Asian R2 comes from(Mal'ta boy was R*). Iranians are basically Arabs with extra Amerindian, as weird and unlikely as that sounds.

[Meruru]

It's quite similar to this one. Probably one of the best I've ever seen, and it's easier to find each country

http://i.imgur.com/vYkyBto.jpg

[RN97]

EHG is WHG+ANE. Neolithic Iran is Basal Eurasian(basically the main ancestry of modern MENA people, peaking in Bedouins and Natufians) with extra ANE. ANE really got around, and is likely where South Asian R2 comes from(Mal'ta boy was R*). Iranians are basically Arabs with extra Amerindian, as weird and unlikely as that sounds.

Iranians seem to also have more ASI and arabs SSA. What is weird is that you claim that ANE gives a amerindian like look, but pashtuns seem to not have that look :confused:
http://i.imgur.com/CUJv7tY.jpg
This Latvian looks EHG-like
http://i.imgur.com/zQNaoJf.jpg
Especially according to the reconstructions, but I still don't get why Pashtuns don't have such looks??

Just so you know I'm not denying your idea, it's just strange that pashtuns don't show that look.

[nightrider+]

Also, some of the Bulgarians do overlap with the Greeks.. given the way the Balkans plots here, it looks like the Bulgarians are more Hellenized rather than Greeks are Slavicized.

Still, the Greeks do shift toward Russia relative to the Sicilians, and are shifting northeast not northwest.

It's not even Russia but Mordovia if anything. Maybe they are North Italians shifting towards Georgia, or Cypriots shifting towards NW Europe.

[Peterski]

Probably one of the best I've ever seen

Nope, this is outdated shit from 2008 and for example Russians are represented by 6 people from Moscow.

Sample sizes used in that PCA (Russia is represented by 6 people, Ukraine is represented by one person!):

https://www.eeb.ucla.edu/Faculty/Novembre/Novembreetal2008Nature-SI.pdf

Few samples had decent size though: Italy (219), UK (200), Spain (136), Portugal (128), Switzerland, France.

[Sikeliot]

It's not even Russia but Mordovia if anything. Maybe they are North Italians shifting towards Georgia, or Cypriots shifting towards NW Europe.

Or Sicilians are Greeks shifted toward Arabia.

[RN97]

Nope, this is outdated shit from 2008 and for example Russians are represented by 6 people from Moscow.

Sample sizes used in that PCA (Russia is represented by 6 people, Ukraine is represented by one person!):

https://www.eeb.ucla.edu/Faculty/Novembre/Novembreetal2008Nature-SI.pdf

Few samples had decent size though: Italy (219), UK (200), Spain (136), Portugal (128), Switzerland, France.

Thought this was from 2016, what's the most up to date PCA map?

[Meruru]

Nope, this is outdated shit from 2008 and for example Russians are represented by 6 people from Moscow.

Sample sizes used in that PCA (Russia is represented by 6 people, Ukraine is represented by one person!):

https://www.eeb.ucla.edu/Faculty/Novembre/Novembreetal2008Nature-SI.pdf

Few samples had decent size though: Italy (219), UK (200), Spain (136), Portugal (128), Switzerland, France.

It is outdated, but not shit, c'mon. Those with decent amount of samples at least seem very accurate

[Peterski]

Thought this was from 2016, what's the most up to date PCA map?

I was talking about the 2008 one posted by Meruru.

[Meruru]

Thought this was from 2016, what's the most up to date PCA map?

This one is more outdated than the first you posted, from 2015:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Guillaume_Laval/publication/275218422/figure/fig1/AS:324880416428032@1454468935724/Fig-6-PCA-with-K-2-applied-to-the-POPRES-data.png

What do you think about it?
The SE Europe looks weird and with just a few samples, the northern one being greece and those southern of south italy would be cyprus I think

[XenophobicPrussian]

Iranians seem to also have more ASI and arabs SSA. What is weird is that you claim that ANE gives a amerindian like look, but pashtuns seem to not have that look :confused:
http://i.imgur.com/CUJv7tY.jpg
This Latvian looks EHG-like
http://i.imgur.com/zQNaoJf.jpg
Especially according to the reconstructions, but I still don't get why Pashtuns don't have such looks??

Just so you know I'm not denying your idea, it's just strange that pashtuns don't show that look.
These Kalash look pretty Amerindian influenced:

http://indiaexplored.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/kalash_woman.jpg

https://thekalashatimes.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/kalashatimes.jpg
(one on the right)

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/news_images/20151111/p08b.jpg

http://gnosticwarrior.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Kalash-tribe-girl.jpg



Nope, this is outdated shit from 2008 and for example Russians are represented by 6 people from Moscow.

Sample sizes used in that PCA (Russia is represented by 6 people, Ukraine is represented by one person!):

https://www.eeb.ucla.edu/Faculty/Novembre/Novembreetal2008Nature-SI.pdf

Few samples had decent size though: Italy (219), UK (200), Spain (136), Portugal (128), Switzerland, France.
Brah, why don't you wanna be so close to Russians? :icon_lol:

but yes, low sample eastern Europe looks way off compared to other PCAs, although it's still a good PCA outside the low sample ones. The lone Slovak sample is also a gypsy, they really didn't do their homework.

[Ibericus]

http://gnosticwarrior.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Kalash-tribe-girl.jpg.
this one is photoshopped. Original :

http://z3.ifrm.com/67/29/0/p468718/kalash_b.jpg

[RN97]

These Kalash look pretty Amerindian influenced:



Sure, but I've never seen a Kalash genetic result. Pretty sure they have some mong as well. I think Iranians are the best example. They're 20% ANE with no other mong influences, they don't really look so amerindian.

[Petalpusher]

Sure, but I've never seen a Kalash genetic result. Pretty sure they have some mong as well. I think Iranians are the best example. They're 20% ANE with no other mong influences, they don't really look so amerindian.

They are more than that, at low K Kalash are basically just a mix of high ANE and Basal + a bit of WHG/ASE/ENA, rather drifting slightly towards ASE from Eurasians than being on a W.Eurasian -> Paleo Indian/Siberian continuum like all central&north Europeans. At the scale of Eurasia, ANE is somewhere between WHG and Amerindians but it doesn't implicate it is a mix of two. Amerindians are a more recent creation than ANE, they ve only created a bridge or another intermediate between ANE and Eastern Eurasians about 15k ago, if anything them being there, just confirms what we see at very low K with Mal'ta or AfontovaGora, ANE is like 2/3 W.Eurasian and 1/3 E.Eurasian. Iranians are more Basal, less ANE (but still more ANE than any European).

This is imo still the most comprehensive graphic to understand the genesis of Eurasians :

https://s15.postimg.org/ketfznxor/anc1.jpg

Specifically BE (vs Neanderthal)

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v536/n7617/images/nature19310-f2.jpg

[Pahli]

Isn't CHG a mix of dominantly ANE + Natufian? That could explain why Iranians get a huge load of Basal Eurasian from CHG, but also from Levantine farmers as well.

I still don't get how Iran Mesolithic has that much Basal Eurasian despite autosomally being extremely close to Satsurblia, while Iran_LN has less, because according to this Basal-rich K7 spreadsheet, Iran Mesolithic has the lowest Basal Eurasian admixture among all other Iranian samples.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=244355057

[Hadouken]

Iranians are basically Georgians with some Arab , Aryan , and South Asian influence . the more east or west you go in iran the stronger

[Petalpusher]

Isn't CHG a mix of dominantly ANE + Natufian? That could explain why Iranians get a huge load of Basal Eurasian from CHG, but also from Levantine farmers as well.

You can see it like that, but Satsurblia is a bit older than Natufians, so it's just a mix of ANE and BE, CHG is almost exactly 50/50.


I still don't get how Iran Mesolithic has that much Basal Eurasian despite autosomally being extremely close to Satsurblia, while Iran_LN has less, because according to this Basal-rich K7 spreadsheet, Iran Mesolithic has the lowest Basal Eurasian admixture among all other Iranian samples.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=244355057


Iran Mesolithic is "Iran_Hotu" in the spreadsheet? The difference between Iran_N and Iran_LN is just less Neanderthal according to Lazaridis but to me it also seems strange the mesolithic would be more basal than the LN unless neanderthal or something else has that kind of detrimental effect. Eurogenes gives this model, Lazaridis thinks it's the other way.

Also being 50% something isn't equal of having 50% ancestry of it, for example if im 50% WHG and 50% SSA, as if really Loscbhour would have mixed with SSA, im less "WHG related" than if im 50% WHG 50% BE/ANE whatever, obviously. In Lazaridis it's more ancestry than a relationship (labeled as % of ancestry, as opposed to an admixture model). CHG and Iran_M end up close but they are certainly the result of a different genesis, just like for modern populations, S.Italians and Ashkenazi kinda cluster together but with quite different history.

[Pahli]

You can see it like that, Satsurblia is a bit older than Natufians, so it's just a mix of ANE and BE, CHG is almost exactly 50/50.




Iran Mesolithic is "Iran_Hotu" in the spreadsheet? The difference between Iran_N and Iran_LN is just less Neanderthal according to Lazaridis but to me it also seems strange the mesolithic would be more basal than the LN unless neanderthal really has that kind of detrimental effect. Eurogenes gives this model, Laziridis thinks it's the other way.

Also being 50% something isn't equal of having 50% ancestry of it, for example if im 50% WHG and 50% SSA, im less "WHG related" than if im 50% WHG 50% BE/ANE whatever, obviously.

Yes, Iran_Hotu is Iran Mesolithic, pretty similar to CHG if you look it up.