Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

[Coolguy1]

Is there any explanation for why this haplogroup reaches such high percentages in southern Albania?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

I would think that its the leftovers from Kutmichevitsa Slavs

http://www.protobulgarians.com/Statii%20za%20prabaalgarite/Albantsite-avtohtonen%20-1.gif

Either that or its somehow native?

[Dick]

I never bothered learning about other y-dna clades other than my own but I2a1 seems very interesting regarding the balkans. I wonder why it's more common with balkan slavs than with other slavs. Could be the same reason as to why E-v13 is more common with albanians. They fucked like rabbits and had 10+ kids per family since the middle ages. What else are you gonna do in the mountans other than fuck and eat.


This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).


Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (possibly) joining Yamna's westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE.



http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml#I2a1

[Coolguy1]

It is interesting how its so densely present in Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia, but are there any explanations as to why there is a large cluster in Albania?

[catgeorge]

I2a1 is very old pre R1b and R1a

I2a-Din is the Slavic marker I2a1b-L621

[Dick]

It is interesting how its so densely present in Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia, but are there any explanations as to why there is a large cluster in Albania?
Acceptance of east euro slovanski kolbaški.

[Herr Abubu]

Because Southern Albania was settled by a lot of Slavs, it had been in the hands of the Bulgarians and the Serbs at different times. The great amount of toponyms of Slavic origin there is a testament to that. When you have in mind that these Slavs wouldn't have only been I2 and R1 by that time, Middle and High Middle Ages, it implies an even greater amount of Slavic blood in the south of Albania than what those two haplogroups alone would imply.

[Lek]

Subjogated Bulgarians. Based on historical records.

[Sokoli]

There are ancient cities in the south and the people that founded them had slaves, hence slavic dna. That E-V13 is a slave originating haplogroup too.

[Laberia]

Is there any explanation for why this haplogroup reaches such high percentages in southern Albania?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

I would think that its the leftovers from Kutmichevitsa Slavs

http://www.protobulgarians.com/Statii%20za%20prabaalgarite/Albantsite-avtohtonen%20-1.gif

Either that or its somehow native?
I don't know nothing from genetics, but let's try.
First, how do you know that I2a1 is a slavic haplogroup? Seems that catgeorge have a different opinion.
Second, how can you be sure about the high concentration of this haplogroup in South Albania.
And third regarding this second map, can you tell us the source and did you noticed that according to this map most of this slavic settlements are north to Shkumbin river, which means not South but Central Albania?

[Laberia]

There are ancient cities in the south and the people that founded them had slaves, hence slavic dna. That E-V13 is a slave originating haplogroup too.

Tani do na lësh mos na ça karin me ato teoritë e tua?

[Laberia]

Because Southern Albania was settled by a lot of Slavs, it had been in the hands of the Bulgarians and the Serbs at different times. The great amount of toponyms of Slavic origin there is a testament to that. When you have in mind that these Slavs wouldn't have only been I2 and R1 by that time, Middle and High Middle Ages, it implies an even greater amount of Slavic blood in the south of Albania than what those two haplogroups alone would imply.

There is nothing serious in your claims. You can not project here your familiar problems. If you have slavic blood in your family for obvious reason, this don't mean that South Albania is a slavic sea as you are trying to describe.
For you i have an direct and simple question:
Where are this slavs?

[Sokoli]

Tani do na lësh mos na ça karin me ato teoritë e tua?

Nuk ke ndonje pune tjeter ti malok rrotkari qe te duket vetja Lab, vecse te jetosh brenda ne TA?

[Laberia]

Nuk ke ndonje pune tjeter ti malok rrotkari qe te duket vetja Lab, vecse te jetosh brenda ne TA?

Ik vazhdo merru me thasët me flori, hajvan.

[Sokoli]

Ik vazhdo merru me thasët me flori, hajvan.

Shko tek cadre e lulit te mbeshtesesh rrevolucionin e malokeve.

[Laberia]

Shko tek cadre e lulit te mbeshtesesh rrevolucionin e malokeve.

Të qifsha në bythë ty, Lulin dhe Ramën bashkë.

[Tschaikisten]

Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common
:cry2

I don't know nothing from genetics, but let's try.
First, how do you know that I2a1 is a slavic haplogroup? Seems that catgeorge have a different opinion.
Second, how can you be sure about the high concentration of this haplogroup in South Albania.
And third regarding this second map, can you tell us the source and did you noticed that according to this map most of this slavic settlements are north to Shkumbin river, which means not South but Central Albania?
Here we talk about I2a1b Dinaric, not I2a1, which evolved long time ago.
So, mods, change this thread name to ''Slavic I2a1b in southern Albania''.

[Sokoli]

Të qifsha në bythë ty, Lulin dhe Ramën bashkë.

Po ti vjen nga nje rrace qe c'do popull qe ka rene ne kontakt me ju, ju ka qire ne bythe. Madje e pranoni me gojen tuaj qe jeni te shtypur, nga Shqiptaret, nga Maqedonasit, nga Serbet, nga Malazezet. Te vetmen gje qe mund te qish ti, jane dhite qe kullot.

[Laberia]

Po ti vjen nga nje rrace qe c'do popull qe ka rene ne kontakt me ju, ju ka qire ne bythe. Madje e pranoni me gojen tuaj qe jeni te shtypur, nga Shqiptaret, nga Maqedonasit, nga Serbet, nga Malazezet. Te vetmen gje qe mund te qish ti, jane dhite qe kullot.

O Tino, ik o sumçe mos na ça trapin se më ngatërron me ndonjë tjetër.

[Laberia]

:cry2

Here we talk about I2a1b Dinaric, not I2a1, which evolved long time ago.
So, mods, change this thread name to ''Slavic I2a1b in southern Albania''.

So, you are suggesting that the OP is an idiot who don't know a shit of what he is trying to discuss here, right?

[Tschaikisten]

So, you are suggesting that the OP is an idiot who don't know a shit of what he is trying to discuss here, right?

He simply don't know which term to use, like 90% people which discuss about genetics.

[Sokoli]

O Tino, ik o sumçe mos na ça trapin se më ngatërron me ndonjë tjetër.

Po si mund te ngaterrohesh ti. Edhe Somalezi Waadad duket si zoteri Anglez ne raport me ty. Ti je textbook malok.

[ilir]

Is there any explanation for why this haplogroup reaches such high percentages in southern Albania?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

I would think that its the leftovers from Kutmichevitsa Slavs



Either that or its somehow native?

How many examples of exemples of albanian ydna you have in total ??? Where are they???
I don't think more than 300 and most of them in the north.
When people know their klan origin than it's different, you can assume that every example is backed from thousands of other clan members otherwise everything it's just a speculation.

[Laberia]

He simply don't know which term to use, like 90% people which discuss about genetics.

Thank you Europa Nazione.
BTW, i suggest to you as signature the song, we servs are Superman.

[Laberia]

Po si mund te ngaterrohesh ti. Edhe Somalezi Waadad duket si zoteri Anglez ne raport me ty. Ti je textbook malok.

Ej, si po ecën me firmat për vetingun, sa firma ke mbledhur te tavolina jote?

[Drawing-slim]

There are ancient cities in the south and the people that founded them had slaves, hence slavic dna. That E-V13 is a slave originating haplogroup too.So you suggesting I2a dinarid and E-v13 is slave origin. Who were the masters then?! J2 and R1b?
Your logic is very weird but intruging. So If they were slaves why would slaves occupy the most fertile lands in all of europe not only balkan peninsula, E-v13 permanently occupying Dardania/kosovo the most fertile richest valley in balkans while on the other side I2a dinaric occupies bosnia criatia, the most fertile ladns in europe.
I dont understand?! Why dont the american slaves in USA dont occupy the best neighborhoods in the country, or england, or france?!

[ilir]

Ej, si po ecën me firmat për vetingun, sa firma ke mbledhur te tavolina jote?

Nji mut
Erdhen nja dy vete por ne vend te firmes kishin shkru "qisha rilindjen ne bythe"

[Sokoli]

So you suggesting I2a dinarid and E-v13 is slave origin. Who were the masters then?! J2 and R1b?
Your logic is very weird but intruging. So If they were slaves why would slaves occupy the most fertile lands in all of europe not only balkan peninsula, E-v13 permanently occupying Dardania/kosovo the most fertile richest valley in balkans while on the other side I2a dinaric occupies bosnia criatia, the most fertile ladns in europe.
I dont understand?! Why dont the american slaves in USA dont occupy the best neighborhoods in the country, or england, or france?!

I don't know what haplogroup is slavic. I don't think haplogropus can be linked to ethnicities, especially ethnicities created after Christ.

However, the facts are these:
* The people that founded the ancient cities had slaves. No doubt about that.
* (Maybe) there were slaves brought from north (I don't think so), but there is no doubt that there were slaves brought from the south, from Africa and Middle East. E1b (and all its derivations) is the first candidate for being linked to those slaves, because most of E1b carriers are still in Africa.

[Drawing-slim]

I don't know what haplogroup is slavic. I don't think haplogropus can be linked to ethnicities, especially ethnicities created after Christ.

However, the facts are these:
* The people that founded the ancient cities had slaves. No doubt about that.
* (Maybe) there were slaves brought from north (I don't think so), but there is no doubt that there were slaves brought from the south, from Africa and Middle East. E1b (and all its derivations) is the first candidate for being linked to those slaves, because most of E1b carriers are still in Africa.lets agree for the sake of the argument.. so who is the "master" haplogroup in the Balkans then?! Lets say they came with slaves, when how? It has to be 14k years ago. You still cant explain to me why would they occupy the best lands in the balkans today?

[Lek]

lets agree for the sake of the argument.. so who is the "master" haplogroup in the Balkans then?! Lets say they came with slaves, when how? It has to be 14k years ago. You still cant explain to me why would they occupy the best lands in the balkans today?

Ev 13 is just the result of genetic drift and bottle neck etc Same shit with i2a, it's distribution in Bosnia etc is a founder effect but neither are from slaves lol.

[Sokoli]

lets agree for the sake of the argument.. so who is the "master" haplogroup in the Balkans then?! Lets say they came with slaves, when how? It has to be 14k years ago. You still cant explain to me why would they occupy the best lands in the balkans today?

Haplogroups are DNA fragments taken from only sexual chromosomes. The whole point of haplogrops is to provide a way to escape from the genetic bounds of ethnicity, which is DNA analysis of all chromosomes or autosomal DNA, and build a genetic tree that at its root unifies all races.

However in the case of E1b and its derivatives, given that the overwhelming majority of its carriers are still in Africa and only a small fraction is found around the area that was the epicenter of ancient empires, it's almost safe to say that it has been brought with slaves. There is no better explanation than this.

[Scholarios]

Why is there I2a1 in South Albania? Well, you see son, when a man loves a woman....

[Lek]

Why is there I2a1 in South Albania? Well, you see son, when a man loves a woman....

You never talk about the Albanians who took Slavic brides. I guess it's more insulting for you to be a Slav paternally. Which is why you have a fetish for trying to link every ydna hg found in Albos to slavs, i guess. Soon you'll be telling us how ev13 is Slavic too.


That Slavic ydna comes from subjogated Bulgarians who later got assimilated. Also another i2a subclade found in south is not Slavic but not found much in north, points again to bottleneck etc. Hence it's diverse distributions

[Lek]

Haplogroups are DNA fragments taken from only sexual chromosomes. The whole point of haplogrops is to provide a way to escape from the genetic bounds of ethnicity, which is DNA analysis of all chromosomes or autosomal DNA, and build a genetic tree that at its root unifies all races.

However in the case of E1b and its derivatives, given that the overwhelming majority of its carriers are still in Africa and only a small fraction is found around the area that was the epicenter of ancient empires, it's almost safe to say that it has been brought with slaves. There is no better explanation than this.

Those are not even the same subclades. You, OP, and a lot of people here have no idea about ydnas or genetics in general. Go learn or sit back and learn.

[Scholarios]

You never talk about the Albanians who took Slavic brides. I guess it's more insulting for you to be a Slav paternally. Which is why you have a fetish for trying to link every ydna hg found in Albos to slavs, i guess. Soon you'll be telling us how ev13 is Slavic too.

I am just explaining the mystery of the "birds and the bees".

But yes, South Albania and Northwest Greece was a place of all sorts of mixings.

[Drawing-slim]

Haplogroups are DNA fragments taken from only sexual chromosomes. The whole point of haplogrops is to provide a way to escape from the genetic bounds of ethnicity, which is DNA analysis of all chromosomes or autosomal DNA, and build a genetic tree that at its root unifies all races.

However in the case of E1b and its derivatives, given that the overwhelming majority of its carriers are still in Africa and only a small fraction is found around the area that was the epicenter of ancient empires, it's almost safe to say that it has been brought with slaves. There is no better explanation than this.haha, I have read you around before even on an albanian forum i think, you're one of those devoted passionate anti-gheg tosk. Creative theory based on pure distaste of certain group of people, in a twsited sense. But E-v13 has produced some of greatest minds in the world not only best worriors through roman empire. How we explain that? chill on the hate towards us ghegs man,lol you funy though!

[Herr Abubu]

There is nothing serious in your claims. You can not project here your familiar problems. If you have slavic blood in your family for obvious reason, this don't mean that South Albania is a slavic sea as you are trying to describe.
For you i have an direct and simple question:
Where are this slavs?

You even have Bulgaro-Macedonian Slavs in Eastern Albania to this day. Point is, however, that Slavic Y-DNA is most common in South Albania, as is Slavic toponymy and the clear historical presence of Slavs in that area.

What it shows is that, first of all, these populations were replaced by its current inhabitants, the Albanians. There wouldn't be such a preponderance of Slavic toponyms there if there wasn't ever a Slavic presence.

Secondly, it shows that the Slavs of South Albania were assimilated and absorbed into the Tosk Albanian population.

It's quite funny, Laberia. You guys are basically to Albanians what Arvanites are to Greeks.

And since there was always a strong Vlach presence in South Albania, we could call you SlavoVlachs: a melange of Albanians, Slavs, Vlachs and Greeks.

[Lek]

I am just explaining the mystery of the "birds and the bees".

But yes, South Albania and Northwest Greece was a place of all sorts of mixings.

Not just Albania south but north too but they were more tribal and patriarchal in the north, they took brides from their neighbors. Also probably bottleneck effect in the is the result of ydna distribution today. I was interested to know how much genetic continuity there is between modern balkanites and ancient but all these autosomals show different results, bullshit plotting maps etc.and a lot seem to be scams. You could probably send your spit several times under different names and get different results.

I'd reccomend people just to test ydna and save your money. You'll learn how it works once you get into it.

there is I1 found in the north linked to normans goths etc. They seem to of become latinized and some later albanized.

There is some i2a subclade in south Albania that is not Slavic though. I don't remember what it was. South Albania has way more Slavic toponyms. Malesia north Albania/south Montenegro mountains was inhabited by patriarchal mountain tribes. I know my ancestors came from there. But I can't say the same for every other Albanian.

Regarding ev 13 in Albanians, it's overrated. It's not the most Albanian or common than any other common one.

Those 40% E are old samples and very few people tested like 100 and 40% tested E I believe. I could be wrong about the number but the samples weren't that large.

[Sokoli]

haha, I have read you around before even on an albanian forum i think, you're one of those devoted passionate anti-gheg tosk. Creative theory based on pure distaste of certain group of people, in a twsited sense. But E-v13 has produced some of greatest minds in the world not only best worriors through roman empire. How we explain that? chill on the hate towards us ghegs man,lol you funy though!

You can ask the opposite question. If slaves had an haplogroup X, what distribution pattern should you expect for it?
You should expect that most of its carriers be still in Africa, and the small fraction that isn't in Africa should be found close to the remains of the ancient Empires. E1b is the haplogroup that represents best this pattern.

Haplogroups say nothing about single individuals, because they represent a very small fraction of the genetic material inherited by parents. A single person having haplogroup X could be blonde or dark haired, tall or short, healthy or ill, etc. So your claim that "E-V13 has produced some of the greatest minds in the world" doesn't make sense. Haplogroups are fractions of sexual chromozomes. In their entirety, sexual chromosomes determine only the sex.

[Laberia]

You even have Bulgaro-Macedonian Slavs in Eastern Albania to this day. Point is, however, that Slavic Y-DNA is most common in South Albania, as is Slavic toponymy and the clear historical presence of Slavs in that area.

What it shows is that, first of all, these populations were replaced by its current inhabitants, the Albanians. There wouldn't be such a preponderance of Slavic toponyms there if there wasn't ever a Slavic presence.

Secondly, it shows that the Slavs of South Albania were assimilated and absorbed into the Tosk Albanian population.

It's quite funny, Laberia. You guys are basically to Albanians what Arvanites are to Greeks.

And since there was always a strong Vlach presence in South Albania, we could call you SlavoVlachs: a melange of Albanians, Slavs, Vlachs and Greeks.
When happened this replacement and assimilation of slavs by Albanians?

[Laberia]

haha, I have read you around before even on an albanian forum i think, you're one of those devoted passionate anti-gheg tosk. Creative theory based on pure distaste of certain group of people, in a twsited sense. But E-v13 has produced some of greatest minds in the world not only best worriors through roman empire. How we explain that? chill on the hate towards us ghegs man,lol you funy though!

Ti mund të kesh lexuar debatet deri në sharje ndërmjet meje dhe këtij tipi. Pyetja është, a i lexon pisllëqet që poston bubuja, por jo vetëm ai?

[Drawing-slim]

Ti mund të kesh lexuar debatet deri në sharje ndërmjet meje dhe këtij tipi. Pyetja është, a i lexon pisllëqet që poston bubuja, por jo vetëm ai?Po, te dy po i lexoj. Ska pse merztiesh, muhabete teorina mej ba qejfin vetes po shkembejn te dy,lol

[Laberia]

Po, te dy po i lexoj. Ska pse merztiesh, muhabete teorina mej ba qejfin vetes po shkembejn te dy,lol

Jo, këto nuk janë muhabete teoria. Unë nuk di ndonjë komb tjetër që të sillet në mënyrë kaq të papërgjegjshme këtu në këtë forum. Nga i nxirrni këto teori për prezencën sllave në Jug? Keni ndonjë dokument që ta provoni këtë? Se unë po lexoj vetëm pisllëqe, por asnjë provë të vetme.

[ilir]

This is a revenge for the arvanite threads in greek section lol.

that's why i asked in the other page from where are taken this tests , how many they are etc.

There's nothing real in it. I can make now a genetic map put it in internet and take it as reference .

[Coolguy1]

This is a revenge for the arvanite threads in greek section lol.

that's why i asked in the other page from where are taken this tests , how many they are etc.

There's nothing real in it. I can make now a genetic map put it in internet and take it as reference .

How is it revenge? I asked a simple question and want to see if there is an answer. The map is from eupedia and various sources were used to make it.

[Laberia]

This is a revenge for the arvanite threads in greek section lol.

that's why i asked in the other page from where are taken this tests , how many they are etc.

There's nothing real in it. I can make now a genetic map put it in internet and take it as reference .

This is a revenge of this couple of faggots, Scholarios and bubu. They have used this retard Sorcelow as a tool. This is the truth.
Now let try to give a bit of seriousness to a thread that is evident an trolling thread.
I challenge every one here to prove this theory of this slavic sea in South Albania. I have said many times that i don't understand genetics, no problem, i will accept any genetic data here to be discussed.

[Trojet]

There are ancient cities in the south and the people that founded them had slaves, hence slavic dna. That E-V13 is a slave originating haplogroup too.


I don't know what haplogroup is slavic. I don't think haplogropus can be linked to ethnicities, especially ethnicities created after Christ.

However, the facts are these:
* The people that founded the ancient cities had slaves. No doubt about that.
* (Maybe) there were slaves brought from north (I don't think so), but there is no doubt that there were slaves brought from the south, from Africa and Middle East. E1b (and all its derivations) is the first candidate for being linked to those slaves, because most of E1b carriers are still in Africa.

:picard2:
It seems you have no clue about haplogroups, but yet are making these ridiculous claims.
Then again, why am I even wasting my time to respond to this crap.

[Coolguy1]

This is a revenge of this couple of faggots, Scholarios and bubu. They have used this retard Sorcelow as a tool. This is the truth.
Now let try to give a bit of seriousness to a thread that is evident an trolling thread.
I challenge every one here to prove this theory of this slavic sea in South Albania. I have said many times that i don't understand genetics, no problem, i will accept any genetic data here to be discussed.

If you cant make a serious contribution then get off the thread.

[ilir]

How is it revenge? I asked a simple question and want to see if there is an answer. The map is from eupedia and various sources were used to make it.

To make a map you test first the people. Where this tests have taken place??
Second you have to know who you are testing, because if you plain to test 50 persons and you test 25 in a slav speaking minority village as we know they are and 25 in other areas than you will have fake statistics.
You can't discuss based on nothing.

[Scholarios]

This is a revenge of this couple of faggots, Scholarios and bubu. They have used this retard Sorcelow as a tool. This is the truth.
Now let try to give a bit of seriousness to a thread that is evident an trolling thread.
I challenge every one here to prove this theory of this slavic sea in South Albania. I have said many times that i don't understand genetics, no problem, i will accept any genetic data here to be discussed.

But can you please answer the OP question? Thanks

[Laberia]

If you cant make a serious contribution then get off the thread.


:cry2

Here we talk about I2a1b Dinaric, not I2a1, which evolved long time ago.
So, mods, change this thread name to ''Slavic I2a1b in southern Albania''.

So, you are suggesting that the OP is an idiot who don't know a shit of what he is trying to discuss here, right?


He simply don't know which term to use, like 90% people which discuss about genetics.

Do you understand that you are a idiot. This two faggots made the wrong decision when they chose you as a first player. You are a retard.

[Laberia]

But can you please answer the OP question? Thanks

What is the question Scholarios?

[Coolguy1]

UPDATE:

From this study, Bosch, E.; Calafell, F.; González-Neira, A.; Flaiz, C; Mateu, E; Scheil, HG; Huckenbeck, W; Efremovska, L; et al. (2006). "Paternal and maternal lineages in the Balkans show a homogeneous landscape over linguistic barriers, except for the isolated Aromuns". Annals of Human Genetics, the i2a1 in southern Albania is due to the Vlachs, some groups have over 40% of it. But I still find it strange as to why they have such high levels of it, regarding their proximity to Croatia and Bosnia.

[Laberia]

UPDATE:

From this study, Bosch, E.; Calafell, F.; González-Neira, A.; Flaiz, C; Mateu, E; Scheil, HG; Huckenbeck, W; Efremovska, L; et al. (2006). "Paternal and maternal lineages in the Balkans show a homogeneous landscape over linguistic barriers, except for the isolated Aromuns". Annals of Human Genetics, the i2a1 in southern Albania is due to the Vlachs, some groups have over 40% of it.
So this haplogroup is not from slavs like you said in OP but from Vlachs. Do you understand now why i consider you an idiot?

[Coolguy1]

So this haplogroup is not from slavs like you said in OP but from Vlachs. Do you understand now why i consider you an idiot?

No, you are the idiot, the haplogroup originated amongst Slavs and was brought to southern Albania by the Aromanians, who have this slavic ancestry.

[Scholarios]

Do you understand that you are a idiot. This two faggots made the wrong decision when they chose you as a first player. You are a retard.

Still better than you, degenerate sophist chumlek-for-brains. GTFO out the thread, like Sorcelow says if you can't provide anything but pathetic digressions.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3N8FVxNrv8rErlHmlREGwMFKDmZoK0yjINyXsKWoayQTq__gOZ MbG0keHFFtQjjP_il54lx8R---wgtDa-lZLN018pYMNtLhoMYSP60vX3t0Q5UHAEy-75D_tjuuLVkcmUE2g7cPN9P18vjBs2u8DQZsUrlI3oPv1kTckf rpPs1MwEwKjOTnkA7lf45Q3lyPvai-K4RvxRePDbcp6cOQ7V3HqC4Qesl1BtkA028yRpXsB0D0t-f9zAXdcxdLs7p5D3mU3dmGZiIvUk_zyPPvHJ1uwB6GCE3whfHZ 702oyHKQf-AjHu8lEYLSvrIGErgWz-_C6Hjd7yWU-DfbzQLtjKhgmehNhXT6upN21GgeKfieSWkifq7l4uSRwrhy53s W0ZpnbkOVmCrVMtLqigiRNEWt3T_b6FUme4YtkZ3mAObGoQtSI wHTqZ0sOHySgGyHEYJHD6rWfhkSsVSxsCycgMmNNJD5z2-zeeY3eVEXmk6gp3rv35ch7ysaF3aRqD2jiNBF6sRCXIq9OjafO UUxgu7bqcoaz04ojogj4cVZfc_-ukHkWPVZac4rnNSuZRGcLv9A1iO_4BoXk3sdYVQjoMGF4HzWUo WTeIJfK6QT2dQp7HPF=w599-h469-no

There's the story of Slavic I2a1b in Albania. Nuff said.

[Laberia]

No, you are the idiot, the haplogroup originated amongst Slavs and was brought to southern Albania by the Aromanians, who have this slavic ancestry.

Until now this thread has prove only one thing, this couple of faggots has used and abused with an idiot like you. Now you have to understand something, you are out of game. This two faggots have the honor to continue the game. Do you understand? Because you have difficulties to understand.

[Laberia]

Still better than you, degenerate sophist chumlek-for-brains. GTFO out the thread, like Sorcelow says if you can't provide anything but pathetic digressions.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3N8FVxNrv8rErlHmlREGwMFKDmZoK0yjINyXsKWoayQTq__gOZ MbG0keHFFtQjjP_il54lx8R---wgtDa-lZLN018pYMNtLhoMYSP60vX3t0Q5UHAEy-75D_tjuuLVkcmUE2g7cPN9P18vjBs2u8DQZsUrlI3oPv1kTckf rpPs1MwEwKjOTnkA7lf45Q3lyPvai-K4RvxRePDbcp6cOQ7V3HqC4Qesl1BtkA028yRpXsB0D0t-f9zAXdcxdLs7p5D3mU3dmGZiIvUk_zyPPvHJ1uwB6GCE3whfHZ 702oyHKQf-AjHu8lEYLSvrIGErgWz-_C6Hjd7yWU-DfbzQLtjKhgmehNhXT6upN21GgeKfieSWkifq7l4uSRwrhy53s W0ZpnbkOVmCrVMtLqigiRNEWt3T_b6FUme4YtkZ3mAObGoQtSI wHTqZ0sOHySgGyHEYJHD6rWfhkSsVSxsCycgMmNNJD5z2-zeeY3eVEXmk6gp3rv35ch7ysaF3aRqD2jiNBF6sRCXIq9OjafO UUxgu7bqcoaz04ojogj4cVZfc_-ukHkWPVZac4rnNSuZRGcLv9A1iO_4BoXk3sdYVQjoMGF4HzWUo WTeIJfK6QT2dQp7HPF=w599-h469-no

There's the story of Slavic I2a1b in Albania. Nuff said.

Where are all this slavs?

[ilir]

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/albanian-bloodlines/about/results

This is the way to discuss
there is a number there, are all haplogroups of all the members
all the rest is just speculation. If you enjoy it, ok i am happy for you.

[Scholarios]

Until now this thread has prove only one thing, this couple of faggots has used and abused with an idiot like you. Now you have to understand something, you are out of game. This two faggots have the honor to continue the game. Do you understand? Because you have difficulties to understand.


Geezus- how fast is that gianormous head of yours spinning ? It's gonna be okay, little feller. Just try your best not to imagine your ancestor who hatched from a Slav0vlach zygote.


Where are all this slavs?

Their blood is coursing thru the veins of every I2 and R1a male in Toskeria, for one. (nevermind the Slavic culture and language is dead there, aside from around Prespa Lakes and in thousands of toponymy)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3N8FVxNrv8rErlHmlREGwMFKDmZoK0yjINyXsKWoayQTq__gOZ MbG0keHFFtQjjP_il54lx8R---wgtDa-lZLN018pYMNtLhoMYSP60vX3t0Q5UHAEy-75D_tjuuLVkcmUE2g7cPN9P18vjBs2u8DQZsUrlI3oPv1kTckf rpPs1MwEwKjOTnkA7lf45Q3lyPvai-K4RvxRePDbcp6cOQ7V3HqC4Qesl1BtkA028yRpXsB0D0t-f9zAXdcxdLs7p5D3mU3dmGZiIvUk_zyPPvHJ1uwB6GCE3whfHZ 702oyHKQf-AjHu8lEYLSvrIGErgWz-_C6Hjd7yWU-DfbzQLtjKhgmehNhXT6upN21GgeKfieSWkifq7l4uSRwrhy53s W0ZpnbkOVmCrVMtLqigiRNEWt3T_b6FUme4YtkZ3mAObGoQtSI wHTqZ0sOHySgGyHEYJHD6rWfhkSsVSxsCycgMmNNJD5z2-zeeY3eVEXmk6gp3rv35ch7ysaF3aRqD2jiNBF6sRCXIq9OjafO UUxgu7bqcoaz04ojogj4cVZfc_-ukHkWPVZac4rnNSuZRGcLv9A1iO_4BoXk3sdYVQjoMGF4HzWUo WTeIJfK6QT2dQp7HPF=w599-h469-no



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6tq69P0BGrySngI6H_E_anavWjxwvnwrqNm4e7L2talKubUxeq uKR125qAFjgFcHbDIzQ9bX_5PYWTQv2r_njWoBDd6W7GpT7KEv _TiU5K6ksRIkCgk7V_aGuLo8jYqxGrSqNncDPDxV2rR8Y8QwtV 5hFxlJvu04ZE9RY8JJErnLZuUI5MK4GG00BABd7ENvIJZiger-MHnSEI_GX73d6CWoKtK5ubfz2Y_V-8Sc7yHUMwOdDQ4_i3BvTggoqw0UXEcbG9YIpIemHJ7yuDLEQKh V--I9Jtm6bdaCq2zCJly32DnX8O6yxZ7GQCj6BvDegyBFCcLCY2Gc 9OcWxymwqDKdq1pGweXBx_Q8GJs7m_hZJ-nX4RDHqgrZTo5cYND2j5_80PQkHRaTIDnBFsHd5xEuF0qyy0gg LcqZDRPlvPbRVZalIjqrseoIwLofIshE9ULzUXf6cLfD3sNvLe 0rMQMtxaBA0WdxKbOKH_cDqpHfKL5lExQ_BLg3VNwWpTlH_y7C 832VpVm6pNIACeCfTK9yj_V3o1fRJgPfXHCO2-pfA3e2DpvqMDDWt1W9Xf6dzd7X5Zeirj0aR2uhep4DF0JNvXBc nTy8Wpv1UbM_R9sUu06k=w599-h416-no

[Laberia]

Geezus- how fast is that gianormous head of yours spinning ? It's gonna be okay, little feller. Just try your best not to imagine your ancestor who hatched from a Slav0vlach zygote.

Scholarios, if you want to discuss, i am here. If you want to troll, ask for blowjob to your bubu.
First, tell us what is your theory.
Second, elaborate your theory.
Third, use credible sources to prove your theory, genetics is accepted.
Fourth, go ahead, i am waiting.

[Scholarios]

sources given, mon ami. ad nauseum in fact. Now please, answer the question dear- why so much Slavic i2a1b in South Albania? Are the books about Slavic sea in South Albania lying as conspiracy of the Great SOROS? I am confused. Please don't give up- I'd like to see how bad your English gets as you try to formulate your next poor excuse for trolling.

Thanks IN ADVANCE.

[Herr Abubu]

Laberia, how did you know that me and Scholarios made Sorcelow make this thread? This was supposed to be a secret.

[Laberia]

sources given, mon ami. ad nauseum in fact. Now please, answer the question dear- why so much Slavic i2a1b in South Albania? Are the books about Slavic sea in South Albania lying as conspiracy of the Great SOROS? I am confused. Please don't give up- I'd like to see how bad your English gets as you try to formulate your next poor excuse for trolling.

Thanks IN ADVANCE.
Where you have read all this presence of i2a1b in South Albania? Can you provide a source please?

[Herr Abubu]

Where you have read all this presence of i2a1b in South Albania? Can you provide a source please?

The I here is mostly I2-Din, i.e., I2a1b. Additionally, you have some R1, it isn't specific about how much R1a, but I've seen other studies going from 9 to 16%. Meaning it's beyond doubt that you have at least around a third or more Slavic Y-DNA in Tosks. When you also take into account that South Slavs aren't exclusively I2-Din and R1a, it means that the genetic contribution of the Slavs in South Albania in terms of Y-DNA was even greater than a third. Every Tosk has a Pyotr, Dima and Vadim inside of him.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/S6ZYexugWoI/AAAAAAAACVA/1I9HXeBDFQY/s1600/albanians.png

[Scholarios]

Where you have read all this presence of i2a1b in South Albania? Can you provide a source please?



http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v24/n4/full/ejhg2015138a.html

Ghegs get around 6% I2+r1a combined.

Tosks about 23%

Arbereshe about 30%

(I do not count I1- brought by Normans, Goths, Catalans, etc)


You can interpret that any way your little heart desires.

[Laberia]

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v24/n4/full/ejhg2015138a.html

Ghegs get around 6% I2+r1a combined.

Tosks about 23%

Arbereshe about 30%

(I do not count I1- brought by Normans, Goths, Catalans, etc)


You can interpret that any way your little heart desires.

How percent is the I2a1 and how is tghe R1a?
And another question. Is this I2a1 the same with I2a-Din?

[Laberia]

The I here is mostly I2-Din, i.e., I2a1b. Additionally, you have some R1, it isn't specific about how much R1a, but I've seen other studies going from 9 to 16%. Meaning it's beyond doubt that you have at least around a third or more Slavic Y-DNA in Tosks. When you also take into account that South Slavs aren't exclusively I2-Din and R1a, it means that the genetic contribution of the Slavs in South Albania in terms of Y-DNA was even greater than a third. Every Tosk has a Pyotr, Dima and Vadim inside of him.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/S6ZYexugWoI/AAAAAAAACVA/1I9HXeBDFQY/s1600/albanians.png
Can you tell me the source of your study? How do you know that I2-Din is a slavic haplogroup?

[Laberia]

The I here is mostly I2-Din, i.e., I2a1b. Additionally, you have some R1, it isn't specific about how much R1a, but I've seen other studies going from 9 to 16%. Meaning it's beyond doubt that you have at least around a third or more Slavic Y-DNA in Tosks. When you also take into account that South Slavs aren't exclusively I2-Din and R1a, it means that the genetic contribution of the Slavs in South Albania in terms of Y-DNA was even greater than a third. Every Tosk has a Pyotr, Dima and Vadim inside of him.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/S6ZYexugWoI/AAAAAAAACVA/1I9HXeBDFQY/s1600/albanians.png

I doubt that the part underlined is true. I think that you have a lot of Ratko in your blood.

[Scholarios]

How percent is the I2a1 and how is tghe R1a?
And another question. Is this I2a1 the same with I2a-Din?

For the first question, you shall have to read the article,

for the 2nd question- Yes, I2a1b- 3/4 of it, and probably most of the rest was also brought during Dark Age invasions IMHO. (this is also its origin among Greeks, as well, where it reaches similar levels, relative to region)

[Herr Abubu]

Can you tell me the source of your study? How do you know that I2-Din is a slavic haplogroup?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00414-010-0432-x

It undoubtedly is if you know anything about population genetics. It originated in Poland somewhere around the Carpathian mountains and spread from there. It's only estimated to be around 2k years old, so it's a very recent haplogroup. It peaks, by far, among South Slavs, in particular Slavs in Bosnia.

[Laberia]

For the first question, you shall have to read the article,

for the 2nd question- Yes, I2a1b- 3/4 of it, and probably most of the rest was also brought during Dark Age invasions IMHO. (this is also its origin among Greeks, as well, where it reaches similar levels, relative to region)
For the first question, i asked you because i belive that you have read this article.
For the second question, i am reading Eupedia and i see that there is no consensus if I2a-Din is of slavic origine or Paleolithic continuity. The result is in favour of Paleolithic continuity: 60 51.28% vs 37 31.62%
Here is the link:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/poll.php?pollid=674&do=showresults
How do you explain this?

[Herr Abubu]

I doubt that the part underlined is true. I think that you have a lot of Ratko in your blood.

The closest I get to having any Ratko in my blood is that H7, my mtDNA, is strongly associated with Germans. The genetic calculators I've done usually gives me below average components associated with Slavs. My genetic story might not be so shameful, my mothers great-great-great ancestor was a Greta, or maybe Heidi. It means my E-V13 EthnoVlakk ancestor cucked Germans, which is natural. Your Albanian ancestry, however, consists of Donikas and Besjanas making love to Vadims.

[Herr Abubu]

For the first question, i asked you because i belive that you have read this article.
For the second question, i am reading Eupedia and i see that there is no consensus if I2a-Din is of slavic origine or Paleolithic continuity. The result is in favour of Paleolithic continuity: 60 51.28% vs 37 31.62%
Here is the link:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/poll.php?pollid=674&do=showresults
How do you explain this?

Hahahahaha, this guy. :pound:

[Laberia]

The closest I get to having any Ratko in my blood is that H7, my mtDNA, is strongly associated with Germans. The genetic calculators I've done usually gives me below average components associated with Slavs. My genetic story might not be so shameful, my mothers great-great-great ancestor was a Greta, or maybe Heidi. It means my E-V13 EthnoVlakk ancestor cucked Germans, which is natural.

Nice that you accept that you have some ratko in your blood. It`s not something new for me, i was sure after reading your posts.

[Laberia]

Scholarios, your hypothesis of this slavic sea in South Albania is based in the test of DNA of 104 Tosk Albanias(we don`t know from what region of South Albania are this people) and you posted a I2+r1a combined result of 23%. I said that i don`t know from genetic and for this reason i will repeat my question. How many of this 104 people are R1a and how many are I2a-Din?

[Dema]

For the first question, i asked you because i belive that you have read this article.
For the second question, i am reading Eupedia and i see that there is no consensus if I2a-Din is of slavic origine or Paleolithic continuity. The result is in favour of Paleolithic continuity: 60 51.28% vs 37 31.62%
Here is the link:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/poll.php?pollid=674&do=showresults
How do you explain this?


I2a1-Dinaric also known as I2a1b (M423) is Slavic bro. They were not originally Slavs, they got Slavicized behind the Carpathian mountains by "real" Slavs, and they have arrived with Slavs on Balkan.
Not big deal tho, it is what it is. Just saying it.

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

[Laberia]

Hahahahaha, this guy. :pound:
You can laugh but nothing change the fact that you are originary from the balls of Ratko.

[Ujku]

Scholarios, your hypothesis of this slavic sea in South Albania is based in the test of DNA of 104 Tosk Albanias(we don`t know from what region of South Albania are this people) and you posted a I2+r1a combined result of 23%. I said that i don`t know from genetic and for this reason i will repeat my question. How many of this 104 people are R1a and how many are I2a-Din?

Ore ca meresh me kta kok pidhat ? Kta na beren slav te mixuar me turk edhe vlech te ter shqiptaret e jugut.

[Herr Abubu]

Nice that you accept that you have some ratko in your blood. It`s not something new for me, i was sure after reading your posts.

Even if I did have any clearly Slavic ancestry, I wouldn't mind it. Slavs are an accomplished group of people, far more so than Albanians. You have a hard time swallowing the more than one in three possibility that you have direct Slavic ancestry on your paternal side.

[Laberia]

I2a1-Dinaric also known as I2a1b (M423) is Slavic bro. They were not originally Slavs, they got Slavicized behind the Carpathian mountains by "real" Slavs, and they have arrived with Slavs on Balkan.
Not big deal tho, it is what it is. Just saying it.

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

Ok, but i see that there is not consensus about this. The members of this forum, Eupedia, are just nickname and we don`t know if any of them is a real expert or they are just amateurs, but this lack of consensus exist. Is your explanation accepted by all scholars or exist contradiction?

[Scholarios]

For the first question, i asked you because i belive that you have read this article.
For the second question, i am reading Eupedia and i see that there is no consensus if I2a-Din is of slavic origine or Paleolithic continuity. The result is in favour of Paleolithic continuity: 60 51.28% vs 37 31.62%
Here is the link:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/poll.php?pollid=674&do=showresults
How do you explain this?


Eupedia and other such sources make this claim ( I should remind you that your good friend, Davai, also claims something like this). Eupedia I guess has many South Slavs who like to associate I2 with Illyrians. Personally, I do not buy it.

Nordvedt, as far as I know, has disproven this idea and shows that it is very young indeed. ( coalescing in Baltic area after the Illyrians and Thracians settled in Southeast Europe). The diversity of the clade decreases from North as you go South in the Balkans. Founder effect caused it to have huge numbers in Balkans.

[Laberia]

Ore ca meresh me kta kok pidhat ? Kta na beren slav te mixuar me turk edhe vlech te ter shqiptaret e jugut.

E di. Eshte nje bastard pa identitet familiar dhe kombetar. Dobici i ndonje servi. E ka pranuar qe gjyshi i tij ishte nje lloj perfaqesuesi i shqiptareve. Ata dinin ke zgjidhnin si perfaqesues. Pra ka hyre dhe ka dale me ta, keshtu qe nuk eshte cudi qe Shega e tij i ka hapur shalet dhe ata ja kane care pjeshken.

[Laberia]

Eupedia and other such sources make this claim ( I should remind you that your good friend, Davai, also claims something like this). Eupedia I guess has many South Slavs who like to associate I2 with Illyrians. Personally, I do not buy it.

Nordvedt, as far as I know, has disproven this idea and shows that it is very young indeed. ( coalescing in Baltic area after the Illyrians and Thracians settled in Southeast Europe). The diversity of the clade decreases from North as you go South in the Balkans. Founder effect caused it to have huge numbers in Balkans.
Appart Eupedia who is just a forum, exist this discussion among scholars if this haplogroup is native or slavic?

[Scholarios]

Appart Eupedia who is just a forum, exist this discussion among scholars if this haplogroup is native or slavic?

Yes, check Ken Nordvedt (https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/news/ken-nordtvedt-genetic-genealogy-interview/). He organized most of the information we know of I type haplogroups. His information is a little hard to find online, but I am sure that Albanian members here have it, if it exists in online format.

[epirot]

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v24/n4/full/ejhg2015138a.html

Ghegs get around 6% I2+r1a combined.

Tosks about 23%

Arbereshe about 30%

(I do not count I1- brought by Normans, Goths, Catalans, etc)


You can interpret that any way your little heart desires.

So, could one correlate the criminal tendencies of the albs to the (non-existing) common bloodline or to (most likely) common criminal culture?

[Dema]

Ok, but i see that there is not consensus about this. The members of this forum, Eupedia, are just nickname and we don`t know if any of them is a real expert or they are just amateurs, but this lack of consensus exist. Is your explanation accepted by all scholars or exist contradiction?

This is pretty much accepted by everyone. I dont hold by what Eupedia says, i just used their map to try to show you how I2a Dinaric now stands.

[Laberia]

Yes, check Ken Nordvedt (https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/news/ken-nordtvedt-genetic-genealogy-interview/). He organized most of the information we know of I type haplogroups. His information is a little hard to find online, but I am sure that Albanian members here have it, if it exists in online format.
Let`s not lose our time with Ken. So you agree that there is not an consensus among scholars about the origine of this Haplogroup?

[Laberia]

This is pretty much accepted by everyone. I dont hold by what Eupedia says, i just used their map to try to show you how I2a Dinaric now stands.

This thread in Eupedia is huge, 48 pages and both sides are using references to prove their opinion.

[Laberia]

Come on Scholarios, faster.

[Scholarios]

Let`s not lose our time with Ken. So you agree that there is not an consensus among scholars about the origine of this Haplogroup?

No, I don't agree. There is not a consensus among online chauvinists, yes, but the age of I2-DIN(L621) is young as shown by Nordvedt, who is the expert on this group. (it's Around 2,000 years old). This Post-dates Paleo-Balkan Late Bronze/Early Iron Age Arrivals of Illyrians to Balkans.


You were showing promise of being capable of reason. Don't revert Labby, don't do it.

[Laberia]

No, I don't agree. There is not a consensus among online chauvinists, yes, but the age of I2-DIN(L621) is young as shown by Nordvedt, who is the expert on this group. (it's Around 2,000 years old). This Post-dates Paleo-Balkan Late Bronze/Early Iron Age Arrivals of Illyrians to Balkans.


You were showing promise of being capable of reason. Don't revert Labby, don't do it.
Ok, there is no consensus, we know now.
Can you tell me please, how percent of the sample was I2a-Din?
I am serious in my discussion. I told you that i don`t know from genetics, so i accept everything you say. And this is the reason why i make many questions.

[Laberia]

Yes, check Ken Nordvedt (https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/news/ken-nordtvedt-genetic-genealogy-interview/). He organized most of the information we know of I type haplogroups. His information is a little hard to find online, but I am sure that Albanian members here have it, if it exists in online format.

From your source:
Ken: I am a mathematical physicist doing research in gravity, space, and time; we folks never seem to retire from our investigations, whether employed or on pension. I am also interested in most all of the hard sciences and in history. Politics has, since 1950, been one of my other interests and passions. I used to travel a lot, ski and sail, and backpack into the mountains until arthritis got in the way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Nordtvedt
Kenneth Leon Nordtvedt (born 1939) is a senior researcher specializing in relativistic theories of gravity. He was born on April 16, 1939, in Chicago, Illinois. Nordtvedt graduated from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1960) and Stanford University (Ph.D., 1964) and was a junior fellow in the Harvard Society of Fellows (1963-1965). During this same period he was staff physicist at the MIT Instrumentation Laboratory project to develop the Apollo Mission's navigation and guidance system.

In the mid-1960s he showed how lunar laser ranging could be used to test a cornerstone of general relativity known as the equivalence principle, especially as extended to gravitationally compact bodies. He was a board member and scientific advisor overseeing the joint NASA-ESA Space Test of Equivalence Principle mission. He was appointed by then President Ronald Reagan to the National Science Board. He was elected to three terms in the Montana state legislature for a six-year period in the early eighties, and there he wrote one of the first inflation indexing reforms of income tax law in the nation. He served briefly in 1989 as Director of the Montana Department of Revenue. He had support from NASA and NSF for much of his research, as well as being a Sloan Fellow. His research was the subject of a Wall Street Journal article featured on the front page.[1]

He showed in 1988 that gravitomagnetism, which is an effect predicted by general relativity but hasn't been observed yet at that time and was even challenged by the scientific community, is inevitably a real effect because it is a direct consequence of the gravitational vector potential. He subsequently shown that the gravitomagnetism interaction, like inertial frame dragging and the Lense–Thirring precession, is typically a Mach effect.[2]

He is also an active genetic genealogist by interests. He has done his own research into genetic haplogroups, particularly the Y DNA group I, to which he belongs.[3][4]

[Scholarios]

Ok, there is no consensus, we know now.
Can you tell me please, how percent of the sample was I2a-Din?
I am serious in my discussion. I told you that i don`t know from genetics, so i accept everything you say. And this is the reason why i make many questions.

There is a consensus. There is only lack of consensus in the same way there is a lack of consensus on if vaccines cause autism or that natural selection produces evolutionary change. This is a sophistic appeal. If your argument is lack of consensus based on nerds on Eupedia, then also you should believe that Albanians origin is Caucasus, because Eupedia argues (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26201-Who-were-and-are-the-Albanians-and-their-DNA) about that too.

Read the article (just the juicy parts). Then search for info on each haplogroup. We need only be concerned here about I2. You don't need to take my word for it, or anyone on this forum(s).

[Laberia]

Ufaaaa Scholariooooos.

[Skerdilaid]

Is there any explanation for why this haplogroup reaches such high percentages in southern Albania?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif

I would think that its the leftovers from Kutmichevitsa Slavs

http://www.protobulgarians.com/Statii%20za%20prabaalgarite/Albantsite-avtohtonen%20-1.gif

Either that or its somehow native?

I can't see the first image but are you using Eupedia as a source again? There are only couple of a scientific studies about Tosks as far as I know, in total probably couple of hundred people tested so we can't say for certain how common CTS10228 is in the south. Could be sample bias.

[Laberia]

There is a consensus. There is only lack of consensus in the same way there is a lack of consensus on if vaccines cause autism or that natural selection produces evolutionary change. This is a sophistic appeal. If your argument is lack of consensus based on nerds on Eupedia, then also you should believe that Albanians origin is Caucasus, because Eupedia argues (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26201-Who-were-and-are-the-Albanians-and-their-DNA) about that too.

Read the article (just the juicy parts). Then search for info on each haplogroup. We need only be concerned here about I2. You don't need to take my word for it, or anyone on this forum(s).
DejaVu, a proud firomski.
No, i have said many times that since someone is hidden behind a nickname, always exist a reasonable doubt. But i see this war of this nerds where everyone use his sources, full with quotes.
BTW, you didn`t answer, how percent of the sample is R1a and how many is I2a-Din.

[Scholarios]

I can't see the first image but are you using Eupedia as a source again? There are only couple of a scientific studies about Tosks as far as I know, in total probably couple of hundred people tested so we can't say for certain how common CTS10228 is in the south. Could be sample bias.

I agree about Eupedia, but judging how well it lines up with North Greeks and even Peloponesians, plus others in the region, I really don't think it is sample bias.

[Laberia]

Come on Scholarios, faster. This trap was prepared from you a long time ago.

[Dema]

Could be sample bias.

I dont believe that this Eupedia map is accurate, no chance that there is more I2a din in S Albania then Macedonia.

[Skerdilaid]

I agree about Eupedia, but judging how well it lines up with North Greeks and even Peloponesians, plus others in the region, I really don't think it is sample bias.

What lines up, Maciamo's imagination (paint skills)? Northern Greeks and Tosks are extremely undertested. I actually don't recall to have seen a studie that specifically targeted Northern Greeks. Do you know any?

[Laberia]

Scholarios, how many serious historians in the world take seriously the genetic results in their studies?

[Era]

I don't have any I2a1 among my 1250 relatives. Any other name for this?

[Laberia]

I don't have any I2a1 among my 1250 relatives. Any other name for this?

You are from South Era?

[Wrong]

0% I2a1b among my DNA relatives, which is why I plot like a civilized ancient beast.


















:D

[Era]

You are from South Era?

Central Albania, so I have both southerners and greeks as relatives

[Scholarios]

What lines up, Maciamo's imagination (paint skills)? Northern Greeks and Tosks are extremely undertested. I actually don't recall to have seen a studie that specifically targeted Northern Greeks. Do you any?

For Tosks, maybe you are right. (though the Arbereshe studies show a lot of I2 and R1a) On Northern Greece, Battaglia did, and I think some others. It seems to me that Northern Greeks are strangely the most tested. I think Catgeorge posted those here very recently.

And it isn't just that. Look at the Greek family dna projects, this clade is found a lot there. Even if it is unorganized, it seems obvious to me. Probably some of it was even brought by Arvanites :cool:

[Wrong]

For Tosks, maybe you are right. (though the Arbereshe studies show a lot of I2 and R1a) On Northern Greece, Battaglia did, and I think some others. It seems to me that Northern Greeks are strangely the most tested. I think Catgeorge posted those here very recently.

And it isn't just that. Look at the Greek family dna projects, this clade is found a lot there. Even if it is unorganized, it seems obvious to me. Probably some of it was even brought by Arvanites :cool:Founder effect, it was not an extensive study.

[Scholarios]

Founder effect, it was not an extensive study.

Probably, but in any case, it's the same in the end. Slavic-speaking male origin for 30% of Arbershe.

edit: 30% of those tested. Samples were taken from several villages. I believe they were not a homogeneous group.

[DRUM]

http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg

[Wrong]

Probably, but in any case, it's the same in the end. Slavic-speaking male origin for 30% of Arbershe.They would need to test thousands of them to make that conclusion and separate I2a1 clades from others. Sardinia peaks in I2a1 aswell.

[Dema]

0% I2a1b among my DNA relatives, which is why I plot like a civilized ancient man.


















:D


I don't have any I2a1 among my 1250 relatives. Any other name for this?


Do you guys speak about 23andme matches or you include Ged Match too?

I get 205 matches on Family Finder.

[Scholarios]

They would need to test thousands of them to make that conclusion and separate I2a1 clades from others. Sardinia peaks in I2a1 aswell.

Well, here lay the problem with modern population genetics. (or how it is used by people like us).

But just a bet, but really don't believe Arbereshe I2a1 is related to Sardinian.... just a hunch.

[Era]

Do you guys speak about 23andme matches or you include Ged Match too?

I get 205 matches on Family Finder.

Those are my 23andme relatives only. I'm not familiar with Gedmatch except when comparing one to one.

[Laberia]

Central Albania, so I have both southerners and greeks as relatives

Responding to your question, a DNA test is a survey on the population. More people participate, the more small is the margin of error. Here we are not talking about personal test, but the surveys on the population. According to this study that Scholarios introduced us, testing 104 people, there was a result of 23% of Slavic presence in South Albania. Although we're not sure if this is a typical haplogroup of haplogroup Slavs.
One must remember that there are no serious scholars who take on these results seriously. One reason, certainly there is, because this historians use other scientific disciplines in their work.
Even the exit polls made before the elections are a scientific work. The problem is that against all the so-called serious polls, won Trump, not Clinton.

[Voskos]

lol, i love how albanians take it as an insult to be related to slavs.as if they had the plague or something

[Laberia]

So you have told nothing with this famous study Scholarios.
And you didn't answer what happened to all this slavs.

[Dick]

lol, i love how albanians take it as an insult to be related to slavs.as if they had the plague or something

:cool:

[Wrong]

lol, i love how albanians take it as an insult to be related to slavs.as if they had the plague or something
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190637-Happy-I-m-Not-E1b

[Laberia]

lol, i love how albanians take it as an insult to be related to slavs.as if they had the plague or something

Yes it's true, we hate them. But here is not the discussion about this. This Scholarios have a theory and he is not accepting a serious discussion. And was him who organized all this.

[Scholarios]

Responding to your question, a DNA test is a survey on the population. More people participate, the more small is the margin of error. Here we are not talking about personal test, but the surveys on the population. According to this study that Scholarios introduced us, testing 104 people, there was a result of 23% of Slavic presence in South Albania. Although we're not sure if this is a typical haplogroup of haplogroup Slavs.
One must remember that there are no serious scholars who take on these results seriously. One reason, certainly there is, because this historians use other scientific disciplines in their work.
Even the exit polls made before the elections are a scientific work. The problem is that against all the so-called serious polls, won Trump, not Clinton.

Sure, but that 23% Slavic dna combined with

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0wPJZzADJeAcQGel2POVUmKyMyG61vQmmG1OxmW2W8bPU1FyhX ldqGuIuCn687ghzEMlpDwGefYu0l3gLhHehJYbO0Njsnk60cQn QoMQVm6Uh_dHfMSPXBbFiJMxUAnONgUxQs4FpGs81zKqJoaIar JIt7Bj9BfMVoeoDQDYLyhWaSAmmTrqOO-37FdAFddl7q_xJrJ1_0ETFj2T2wMh04BMnlpW88dqkuzy8jWcc 1Z9MqK4XSRd2wtQmJSFl9dB5fmFgueHyzg223XyasX95Wq6b_e Ud9nCIRFUHgxzIhOUqYaGroFt3p_DClSzrG6eitpylM1FK8KJM Y6x-AwgJm7IuBT9dLgLx-0s1rw8ctlMB6RlaXwyfSGguLVmeiXfJZtw84Uu7MySfgYDojfK y0n8I6qviHEPiHLsekyQ2zAkCfXMB8RgtGoRGuWiZDASkBUNl2 OePXXGVaaFFcFqhAIk4V30aIC6i71MyxxkiAjb4_pvtp7Vt3Q3 3MTE4N4U-g562TwiMoZTph-FDVU1MSpqyi1MyiVVGtGWD8CkSER1-J5g7fkZp3230gGSp81e-9nNIJQmzEGqficuibLLq3BfWYaqx1xcluN3snuDt8gjF8VcG4U Z=w599-h469-no


and this

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kJNbuPqwrJDbRgpbSeeR4BWSQ10xfhPqF_hV3gEJP_8A5XMEHJ paLB4IsIVIpJlmghwDPjXBImZMJuakXDeQ3-rC5y-y9dR2zEqMBhK9qpiG7g4vQatSHkuSeEbhJF0UnB_8nlqaeiw9D lEf48jmbEK_esnKmANWv05qPbUFmD4G1OsfcxEPCXnuwDEeg6S R7naIDalA9ap7URtmkXvLr4zxSvmQKGtp5-SZh9ZNPcaECChARAITA0LluNU7bJ29U55BLC_99IMEGJJoqm_1 mv4UwFb8X-C3F7OKCU-BfCvTaVpyRA357em7Rj0wowzFkxeRyeffeDjNUjhiyuUGKsxva-nntriNX4kQ7Ca8S_8VeiyJHvfuWFgP2K5O4GzFI_XGG0c0xJ_D TZBETjGNsOWXc7q49ZYciltb5MaWEMnXYhmLhB6QCjHhWNWbh-7L96vCroMa2wvQvFpB54Vb23OIUsTkcKExez0jykqfNn4YzDq3 MbLyfxxIvRal2XEHdThmapVX1OnfGF8BhfmFc-OZgsoGtgPwv2S-ArPW_iPnHGLJhqdT3aC_nDmHcup75wJEArmcGSM7o-ogd3oForuNzMe364TqqRdc-tbmxGPXdsSO=w599-h416-no

and this

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ozk3tLEgeaSBPDMO0HSeA48WmG-LqqYOghgrkYY2K3q9puLglewKxM2TCubNOp3GuFfhxfy12sjw7 tRgikyXF8QHeQO3Eu66Lk_RQqrj6xch9oSfj4fRXaNic2VlM0V M_7gxiVQaJbvh7P-N6VWkGA8MmjOQPqToiMN9cf_4_dfba8efavPZTfZOXbrmh8oWf NtpU0m74HPQ1g7ov4po6jsmyNET7bJ-ByNXHY87g1YdOlPwZX6awZFxmmqca00NCP19Bg6Z3pn0u49XSz reSSy6SAhC8XMbExHPRsmFmwV13SCNiqpQrWSAaxvu7yBzIGUR krZjt4_aoC6D30Cy4oJwj1j4XuZL0eRQiOjlVwlTYFt-nAyqpHaI-qDVhupt3NCKN40vcYrlBWo353Bw17ET63KDnSTn_2N21RQNhYa dU89D5xXni7YA29cKdb48EEFds8O8KmLmHADPlNdIzgU2QyeC6 IyV-gZ5y8ZYOOFFK5rDe64ODMVqxVWx0HaT3l3OJU7Xvs7gum9zcIH aJOu1ZBAfdOX4_hO2nRWE5TGH_82kEsmmkvsIW3RtsJqUY2Bq3 sLLFbNxT5ca4fS5ZJqN2BquwwcBD9WP5wZ3-e96SmtU5oZX=w539-h305-no

plus this

http://macedonia.kroraina.com/seli_sna/selish_slavic.png

and (old phylogenic name) map of i2a1b

http://i.imgur.com/YIV0TQD.jpg

So these provide some perspective, don't you agree? All the objections in TA can't really stop me from thinking.... hmmmm. that's weird. Amirite or amirite?

[Lek]

0% I2a1b among my DNA relatives, which is why I plot like a civilized ancient beast.

















:D

This is where you plot according to Skerdilaid

http://oi63.tinypic.com/fdrjwy.jpg

When the gashi was put earlier before he plotted north east of me. These plotting maps are bullshit.

[Wrong]

This is where you plot according to Skerdilaid

http://oi63.tinypic.com/fdrjwy.jpg

When the gashi was put earlier before he plotted north east of me. These plotting maps are bullshit.Indeed.

Could someone make a map for Gedrosia K9 ASI results? Would be interesting to see how different it looks.

Kurt despite being from more northern areas plots just at me.

[Laberia]

Sure, but that 23% Slavic dna combined with

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0wPJZzADJeAcQGel2POVUmKyMyG61vQmmG1OxmW2W8bPU1FyhX ldqGuIuCn687ghzEMlpDwGefYu0l3gLhHehJYbO0Njsnk60cQn QoMQVm6Uh_dHfMSPXBbFiJMxUAnONgUxQs4FpGs81zKqJoaIar JIt7Bj9BfMVoeoDQDYLyhWaSAmmTrqOO-37FdAFddl7q_xJrJ1_0ETFj2T2wMh04BMnlpW88dqkuzy8jWcc 1Z9MqK4XSRd2wtQmJSFl9dB5fmFgueHyzg223XyasX95Wq6b_e Ud9nCIRFUHgxzIhOUqYaGroFt3p_DClSzrG6eitpylM1FK8KJM Y6x-AwgJm7IuBT9dLgLx-0s1rw8ctlMB6RlaXwyfSGguLVmeiXfJZtw84Uu7MySfgYDojfK y0n8I6qviHEPiHLsekyQ2zAkCfXMB8RgtGoRGuWiZDASkBUNl2 OePXXGVaaFFcFqhAIk4V30aIC6i71MyxxkiAjb4_pvtp7Vt3Q3 3MTE4N4U-g562TwiMoZTph-FDVU1MSpqyi1MyiVVGtGWD8CkSER1-J5g7fkZp3230gGSp81e-9nNIJQmzEGqficuibLLq3BfWYaqx1xcluN3snuDt8gjF8VcG4U Z=w599-h469-no


and this

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kJNbuPqwrJDbRgpbSeeR4BWSQ10xfhPqF_hV3gEJP_8A5XMEHJ paLB4IsIVIpJlmghwDPjXBImZMJuakXDeQ3-rC5y-y9dR2zEqMBhK9qpiG7g4vQatSHkuSeEbhJF0UnB_8nlqaeiw9D lEf48jmbEK_esnKmANWv05qPbUFmD4G1OsfcxEPCXnuwDEeg6S R7naIDalA9ap7URtmkXvLr4zxSvmQKGtp5-SZh9ZNPcaECChARAITA0LluNU7bJ29U55BLC_99IMEGJJoqm_1 mv4UwFb8X-C3F7OKCU-BfCvTaVpyRA357em7Rj0wowzFkxeRyeffeDjNUjhiyuUGKsxva-nntriNX4kQ7Ca8S_8VeiyJHvfuWFgP2K5O4GzFI_XGG0c0xJ_D TZBETjGNsOWXc7q49ZYciltb5MaWEMnXYhmLhB6QCjHhWNWbh-7L96vCroMa2wvQvFpB54Vb23OIUsTkcKExez0jykqfNn4YzDq3 MbLyfxxIvRal2XEHdThmapVX1OnfGF8BhfmFc-OZgsoGtgPwv2S-ArPW_iPnHGLJhqdT3aC_nDmHcup75wJEArmcGSM7o-ogd3oForuNzMe364TqqRdc-tbmxGPXdsSO=w599-h416-no

and this

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ozk3tLEgeaSBPDMO0HSeA48WmG-LqqYOghgrkYY2K3q9puLglewKxM2TCubNOp3GuFfhxfy12sjw7 tRgikyXF8QHeQO3Eu66Lk_RQqrj6xch9oSfj4fRXaNic2VlM0V M_7gxiVQaJbvh7P-N6VWkGA8MmjOQPqToiMN9cf_4_dfba8efavPZTfZOXbrmh8oWf NtpU0m74HPQ1g7ov4po6jsmyNET7bJ-ByNXHY87g1YdOlPwZX6awZFxmmqca00NCP19Bg6Z3pn0u49XSz reSSy6SAhC8XMbExHPRsmFmwV13SCNiqpQrWSAaxvu7yBzIGUR krZjt4_aoC6D30Cy4oJwj1j4XuZL0eRQiOjlVwlTYFt-nAyqpHaI-qDVhupt3NCKN40vcYrlBWo353Bw17ET63KDnSTn_2N21RQNhYa dU89D5xXni7YA29cKdb48EEFds8O8KmLmHADPlNdIzgU2QyeC6 IyV-gZ5y8ZYOOFFK5rDe64ODMVqxVWx0HaT3l3OJU7Xvs7gum9zcIH aJOu1ZBAfdOX4_hO2nRWE5TGH_82kEsmmkvsIW3RtsJqUY2Bq3 sLLFbNxT5ca4fS5ZJqN2BquwwcBD9WP5wZ3-e96SmtU5oZX=w539-h305-no

plus this

http://macedonia.kroraina.com/seli_sna/selish_slavic.png

and (old phylogenic name) map of i2a1b

http://i.imgur.com/YIV0TQD.jpg

So these provide some perspective, don't you agree? All the objections in TA can't really stop me from thinking.... hmmmm. that's weird. Amirite or amirite?

OK Scholarios, i can start to explain one by one why your pages are wrong.
But i want to repeat again the final question. What's happened to all this slavs. Were this people expelled as bubu said or assimilated? When and how happened this process? You can not ignore this questions.

[Dema]

Anyways i seem also not to have any I2a1 din relative close but i havent gone thru all of them. I noticed this earlier since i checked some of Ydnas that were done by my matches on Family Finder.
Closest Serb that i match is E-L117, then there is another with R-m269 (that is R1a right?), Then there is one more with N-P189. Then another with R-YP611 is that Albo R1b or hmm?

Then there is one more distant Serb with R-Z283, U5mtdna. Found one with I-L160 tho, he seems very far away, i think he is first I i seen among relatives also he has J1b1a1 mtdna.

[Skerdilaid]

For Tosks, maybe you are right. (though the Arbereshe studies show a lot of I2 and R1a) On Northern Greece, Battaglia did, and I think some others. It seems to me that Northern Greeks are strangely the most tested. I think Catgeorge posted those here very recently.

And it isn't just that. Look at the Greek family dna projects, this clade is found a lot there. Even if it is unorganized, it seems obvious to me. Probably some of it was even brought by Arvanites :cool:

Arbereshe do not represent the Tosk population in southern Albania, in majority, specifically the tested settlements, migrated there from Greece.

[Lek]

Indeed.

Could someone make a map for Gedrosia K9 ASI results? Would be interesting to see how different it looks.

Kurt despite being from more northern areas plots just at me.

On 23andme he plotted totally different. He scores more Balkan on 23andme than any other Albanian ive seen. DNA land he also gets 100% Balkan like me.

[Wrong]

On 23andme he plotted totally different. He scores more Balkan on 23andme than any other Albanian ive seen. DNA land he also gets 100% Balkan like me.Would you say the little northwestern Euro admix I have on DNA land pulls me north of you guys?

In other scenarios I'd say the Balkan components pull differently, I may have some more South Balkan admixture in my DNA land, but who knows?

[Dema]

Anyways i seem also not to have any I2a1 din relative close but i havent gone thru all of them. I noticed this earlier since i checked some of Ydnas that were done by my matches on Family Finder.
Closest Serb that i match is E-L117, then there is another with R-m269 (that is R1a right?), Then there is one more with N-P189. Then another with R-YP611 is that Albo R1b or hmm?

Then there is one more distant Serb with R-Z283, U5mtdna. Found one with I-L160 tho, he seems very far away, i think he is first I i seen among relatives also he has J1b1a1 mtdna.


So ill just answer to myself as i googled it up, so R-m269 seems to be R1b, and I-L160 Sardinian

[Lek]

Would you say the little northwestern Euro admix I have on DNA land would pull me north of you guys?

I'd say the Balkan components pull differently, I may have some more South Balkan admixture in my DNA land, but who knows?

I dont know. I just think you wouldnt plot where you plot In that map. Neither you, kurt or gashi.

[Herr Abubu]

Sure, but that 23% Slavic dna combined with

23% is the minimum. You have different studies with different numbers, all higher than that. Moreover, the Slavs living in Epirus wouldn't have been exclusively I2-Din and R1a, but other haplogroups as well. Meaning that it's certain that many of Laberia's ancestors were singing iso-polyphony in a squatting position wearing Adidas track pants.

[Dema]

I dont know. I just think you wouldnt plot where you plot In that map. Neither you, kurt or gashi.

Bro i think ur too much into autosomal conspiracy theories :D I mean we can try other calcs why not, also its not wonder if other calc will show different results, but we should still as a group plot together.
Also dont ruin my trip for ploting so good! MR. my closest autosomal DNA relative : D

[Lek]

Bro i think ur too much into autosomal conspiracy theories :D I mean we can try other calcs why not, also its not wonder if other calc will show different results, but we should still as a group plot together.
Also dont ruin my trip for ploting so good! MR. my closest autosomal DNA relative : D

Lol. Whats your problem? Youre stupid as fuck obviously to call it a conspiracy. Stupid as fuck like most Albanians on here getting north west euro, central euro, slavic, jewish, african on DNA test. How does plotting with them mean anything if its accurate?

They cannot plot there. How the fuck can they plot with cretans?

When petalpusher put the gashi on the map he plotted next to me. You really must be blind. Kurt on 23andme plotted West of where leki is. Idont give a shit if i ruin your trip. I guess you have insecurities. Never said we wouldnt plot together dude. Just different. You plot where you plot based on the different mixture you are. Sardinian will pull you south west. Slavic will pull you north /east + south euro Balkan, north west etc etc how can you not fucking understand this. Tell me, where would the least mixed Albanian plot? Cos most of you get more mixed results than me. Except few like ylla and leap who get less east euro but more mena on ftdna. But leap gets much less balkan than both of us.

Kurt gets less mixed results too. If we are both pred. Balkan we should plot very close me and him. And every other north albo who gets 90% + balkan.

If he did ftdna and it goes max 1000 years back, how much east euro would he score if his paternal ancestors were slavs? Surely he should still be more north than that. Hes from north albania. . 1000 years ago his ancestors must of been more northern plotting but was pulled very south from Balkan admix. And this if the east euro is slavic. So they became pred. Balkan. Where this mena came from too?


Hop off my dick a little bit. Anyone who disagrees with me can suck my dick. Youre all mixed as fuck anyway like every other balkanite, so were your ancestors before that, but you have this dream of pure bloodedness. I dont give a shit if im mixed. Nothing bad about it. I was just interested to see how much of a genetic continuity there is when i came to this.

Not my problem i ruined your autosomal dreams. And the fuclkibg pseudoscience.

.go count your i2a relatives and r1a on ftdna now.

Youre all fucking faggots. I despise most of you. Arguing over whos more lighter while calling others gypsies but getting mixed DNA tests.

Shit man i dont phantasize of albos looking like Scandinavians.

[Voskos]

the fuck? where do you see anyone plotting with cretans?

[Dema]

Lol. Whats your problem? Youre stupid as fuck obviously to call it a conspiracy. Stupid as fuck like most Albanians on here getting north west euro, central euro, slavic, jewish, african on DNA test. How does plotting with them mean anything if its accurate?

They cannot plot there. How the fuck can they plot with cretans?

When petalpusher put the gashi on the map he plotted next to me. You really must be blind. Kurt on 23andme plotted West of where leki is. Idont give a shit if i ruin your trip. I guess you have insecurities. Never said we wouldnt plot together dude. Just different. You plot where you plot based on the different mixture you are. Sardinian will pull you south west. Slavic will pull you north /east + south euro Balkan, north west etc etc how can you not fucking understand this. Tell me, where would the least mixed Albanian plot? Cos most of you get more mixed results than me. Except few like ylla and leap who get less east euro but more mena on ftdna. But leap gets much less balkan than both of us.

Kurt gets less mixed results too. If we are both pred. Balkan we should plot very close me and him. And every other north albo who gets 90% + balkan.

If he did ftdna and it goes max 1000 years back, how much east euro would he score if his paternal ancestors were slavs? Surely he should still be more north than that. Hes from north albania. . 1000 years ago his ancestors must of been more northern plotting but was pulled very south from Balkan admix. And this if the east euro is slavic. So they became pred. Balkan. Where this mena came from too?


Hop off my dick a little bit. Anyone who disagrees with me can suck my dick. Youre all mixed as fuck anyway like every other balkanite, so were your ancestors before that, but you have this dream of pure bloodedness. I dont give a shit if im mixed. Nothing bad about it. I was just interested to see how much of a genetic continuity there is when i came to this.

Not my problem i ruined your autosomal dreams. And the fuclkibg pseudoscience.

.go count your i2a relatives and r1a on ftdna now.

Youre all fucking faggots. I despise most of you. Arguing over whos more lighter while calling others gypsies but getting mixed DNA tests.

Shit man i dont phantasize of albos looking like Scandinavians.


lol that part was a joke bro, i mean i dont give a fuck how i plot with others and nor i have some special trip about it except we can have some fantasies and jokes with it.
Its obvious that you take this much more serious and these last few days your brain is just boiling over it, even tho i dont understand why?

As for other part of msg i see that you are in rage again so i wont even comment it, i would just advice you not to ban yourself again, stay calm, breath normally. It will go away :D :thumb001:

[HellLander87]

Albanians are a FAKE , FAILING and quickly FADING AWAY people. 70% of able bodied albanians live abroad. At best their grandchildren will develop some psychological traumas if they ever learn that they have albanian roots. At the same time in Albania gypsy population increases rapidly and there is HUGE intermarriage between the very different tosks and ghegs.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Why is there I2a1 in South Albania? Well, you see son, when a man loves a woman....

Says a guy whose nation is cucked by all, Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks. :D

Some of I2b comes from assimilated Bulgarians, not that they took Albanian bride and turned magically Albanian right after, if anything this may be the case for Albanian men but never have stumble upon any article about opposite.

[Dema]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrF3WPi_7uI&t=388s

[The Illyrian Warrior]

UPDATE:

From this study, Bosch, E.; Calafell, F.; González-Neira, A.; Flaiz, C; Mateu, E; Scheil, HG; Huckenbeck, W; Efremovska, L; et al. (2006). "Paternal and maternal lineages in the Balkans show a homogeneous landscape over linguistic barriers, except for the isolated Aromuns". Annals of Human Genetics, the i2a1 in southern Albania is due to the Vlachs, some groups have over 40% of it. But I still find it strange as to why they have such high levels of it, regarding their proximity to Croatia and Bosnia.

This makes more sense then associating I2b with Slavs (I made a mistake too) given that Vlachs were very well distributed across Southern Albania also intermarried with Albanians.

Herzegovina region where's the I2b hotspot was historically a Vlach settlement hotspot.

[Voskos]

Vlachs=Dacians mixed with Goths,Romans and Slavs. The term vlach is very derogatory.

[Dema]

Vlachs=Dacians mixed with Goths,Romans and Slavs. The term vlach is very derogatory.

Vlach has two meaning one is how Slavs called the population they found when arrived on Balkan, including Albanians.
Others is more proper one, Aromun. They are Roman - Illyrian - Slavic mix and their language comes out of Latin just as Romanian does. Aromanian and Romanian languages have split one from another in 9th century.

This is what wikipedia says about etymology: The word "Vlach" is of Germanic origin, an early loanword into Proto-Slavic from Germanic *Walhaz ("foreigner" or "stranger") and used by ancient Germanic peoples for their Romance-speaking and (Romanized) Celtic neighbours.

Also Bosnjaks use it to offend Serbs:

in Bosnia and Herzegovina ("Vlah", plural "Vlasi") when referring to highlanders and shepherds (often, in earlier times, regardless of religious adherence even) of Dinarides area; later, depending on context, it also became a derogatory term used to label ethnic Serbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs#Etymology

[Lek]

Bro i think ur too much into autosomal conspiracy theories :D I mean we can try other calcs why not, also its not wonder if other calc will show different results, but we should still as a group plot together.
Also dont ruin my trip for ploting so good! MR. my closest autosomal DNA relative : D

This is the same Gashi/Nilotik on that map done by petalpusher with same calc. I have checked hundred times the calc he sent me. Its eurogenes k15. He plots right next to me. Hes the circle right next to my name dude. East of me.

https://s30.postimg.org/4f4bm1xlr/k15icet2.jpg

But on that other map him, Kurt and xhak bauer plot next to Cretans. Sorry for ruining your dreams. Never said you wouldnt plot where you plot. But most likely it is wrong. You should be more baltic shifted while im north sea shifted. WE would all probably plot closer if done correctly. That limaj dude must be wrong too.

Xhak bauer and kurt im guessing would plot similar to me and Nilotik / Gashi on that map. We were added there by petalpusher. The rest have been done by someone else.

[safinator]

Can someone send me the map and the link to do the map calculation?

I've around 50 samples of Albos from Gedmatch so i can do it.

[Skerdilaid]

Can someone send me the map and the link to do the map calculation?

I've around 50 samples of Albos from Gedmatch so i can do it.

Here you go: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?197107-Post-Eurogenes-k15-individualized-PCA-mapping-coordinates

[Skerdilaid]

This is the same Gashi/Nilotik on that map done by petalpusher with same calc. I have checked hundred times the calc he sent me. Its eurogenes k15. He plots right next to me. Hes the circle right next to my name dude. East of me.

https://s30.postimg.org/4f4bm1xlr/k15icet2.jpg

But on that other map him, Kurt and xhak bauer plot next to Cretans. Sorry for ruining your dreams. Never said you wouldnt plot where you plot. But most likely it is wrong. You should be more baltic shifted while im north sea shifted. WE would all probably plot closer if done correctly. That limaj dude must be wrong too.

Xhak bauer and kurt im guessing would plot similar to me and Nilotik / Gashi on that map. We were added there by petalpusher. The rest have been done by someone else.

I could have made a mistake, so we will see when Saf does his map. Can you in the mean time post the map petalpusher did for you, and also the components he used for Gashi and Kurt?

[Dema]

Lol. Whats your problem? Youre stupid as fuck obviously to call it a conspiracy. Stupid as fuck like most Albanians on here


So i have some time now and i can give you another reply, i hope that you chilled out now and we can normally talk since i always like to give people second chance, and especially since i know how sensitive you are are i didn't want to hurt your feelings. But on the other hand when i disagreed with you and it was in a friendly manner you didn't hesitate to instantly become cruel and savage there and start using mindless insults.
I think at least what you should do is apology for this words, because i am not one of your Norwegian Nigger friends that you use to fuck around and talk like that. If i show respect to you, that is minimum what i require back. And especially not undeserved disrespect. Therefore i hope you understand that you crossed a line there. And that behavior is not acceptable. You could say your arguments even without insults.

Your arguments about Kurt and what Albanians get like N African or Jewish and that based on similar components is totally baseless and i hope you are not that stupid (word you used) that you cannot see that. Because its not how its work, if you and whoever have similar components on some calculator, it does not mean that you two are connected thru recent ancestor. Also as i told you if you chilled out and if you ready for apology we can continue this.
I know you have some personal issue with this and something about your ancestry but this was not even thread about your autosomal but about I2a in South Albania.

Also no one is saying that Albanians look like Scandinavians and is not representing Albanians like that. That is just BS! But i cannot continue to argument with you because of your unnecessary behavior few moments ago, and i think you need to clean that shit first!

[Scholarios]

Says a guy whose nation is cucked by all, Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks. :D

Some of I2b comes from assimilated Bulgarians, not that they took Albanian bride and turned magically Albanian right after, if anything this may be the case for Albanian men but never have stumble upon any article about opposite.

It is not an accusation or something, I have said similar things about Greeks. I am sure the ethnic symbiosis and assimilation was/is as complicated in Albania as anywhere else.

[Loki]

I2 is not Slavic.

[Scholarios]

I2 is not Slavic.

it's not slavic, I2a1b was brought to south balkans by slavic-speakers.

[Wrong]

This is the same Gashi/Nilotik on that map done by petalpusher with same calc. I have checked hundred times the calc he sent me. Its eurogenes k15. He plots right next to me. Hes the circle right next to my name dude. East of me.

https://s30.postimg.org/4f4bm1xlr/k15icet2.jpg

But on that other map him, Kurt and xhak bauer plot next to Cretans. Sorry for ruining your dreams. Never said you wouldnt plot where you plot. But most likely it is wrong. You should be more baltic shifted while im north sea shifted. WE would all probably plot closer if done correctly. That limaj dude must be wrong too.

Xhak bauer and kurt im guessing would plot similar to me and Nilotik / Gashi on that map. We were added there by petalpusher. The rest have been done by someone else.The C. Greek is Central Greek according to Gedmatch, I checked now.

This is the only calculator that puts me this far south. The scaling of this could be wrong, I don't know.

[Loki]

it's not slavic, I2a1b was brought to south balkans by slavic-speakers.

It was in the Balkans even before the arrival of Slavic speakers. It is native.

[Skerdilaid]

Ok, I checked again and the inconsistency seems to be with the calculator that calculates x and y axis: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I basically retried my results again just to see how accurate they are and it placed me on the same spot where Xhak Bauer and Kurt are. What we are seeing there is two sub-clusters because they were done at different times. Don't waste your time with it, Saf.

[Scholarios]

It was in the Balkans even before the arrival of Slavic speakers. It is native.

Sorry Lokester, that's just not true. See previous details in this thread. It wasn't in Albania or Greece...maybe if by Balkans you mean Romania, its possible.

[Wrong]

Ok, I checked again and the inconsistency seems to be with the calculator that calculates x and y axis: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I basically retried my results again just to see how accurate they are and it placed me on the same spot where Xhak Bauer and Kurt are. What we are seeing there is two sub-clusters because they were done at different times. Don't waste your time with it, Saf.Ok, now it makes sense :D

Guess I am inside the Albo-clusterclub afterall :D

[Loki]

Sorry Lokester, that's just not true. See previous details in this thread. It wasn't in Albania or Greece...maybe if by Balkans you mean Romania, its possible.

What concrete proof do you have?

[Dick]

What concrete proof do you have?

Apparently the theory is this; The I2a1b-L621 subclade seems to correlate with the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Cucuteni-Tripol%27ye_Culture_Outline_Map.png/240px-Cucuteni-Tripol%27ye_Culture_Outline_Map.png

These people were "Indo-Europeanized" like most European cultures dating from that period. Most admins from ftdna will not say that a certain subclade belongs to a certain meta-ethnicity but to a culture. Maybe due to PCness or whatever although one can construct other explanations, involving later migrations, etc. such as the Slavic migrations to the Balkans for this specific subclade. For example, when I did the Big Y I was told by ftdna admins that my subclade belonged to the Jasdorf culture, not a specific meta-ethnicity. Constructing other explanations regarding meta-ethnicities etc happens more on forums like this one or anthrogenica etc.

[Skerdilaid]

What concrete proof do you have?

Here is the proof, and all one needs to see: a Polak, Lithuanian, Ukranian, Greek and a Serbian sharing TMRCA 2200ybp: https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/

[Skerdilaid]

Ok, now it makes sense :D

Guess I am inside the Albo-clusterclub afterall :D

You're normal after all :D

[Wrong]

You're normal after all :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelUZruMw-s

[Loki]

Here is the proof, and all one needs to see: a Polak, Lithuanian, Ukranian, Greek and a Serbian sharing TMRCA 2200ybp: https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/

Single individuals sharing Y-DNA doesn't mean anything. I am E-V13 and it doesn't make me an Albanian.

There is zero evidence that I2 was brought by Slavic-speakers to the Balkans... only wannabe smart-asses who try to sell their opinions off as facts. Don't believe them.

[Loki]

Apparently the theory is this; The I2a1b-L621 subclade seems to correlate with the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Cucuteni-Tripol%27ye_Culture_Outline_Map.png/240px-Cucuteni-Tripol%27ye_Culture_Outline_Map.png

These people were "Indo-Europeanized" like most European cultures dating from that period. Most admins from ftdna will not say that a certain subclade belongs to a certain meta-ethnicity but to a culture. Maybe due to PCness or whatever although one can construct other explanations, involving later migrations, etc. such as the Slavic migrations to the Balkans for this specific subclade. For example, when I did the Big Y I was told by ftdna admins that my subclade belonged to the Jasdorf culture, not a specific meta-ethnicity. Constructing other explanations regarding meta-ethnicities etc happens more on forums like this one or anthrogenica etc.

Looks more like Sarmato-Scythians then.

[Wrong]

Single individuals sharing Y-DNA doesn't mean anything. I am E-V13 and it doesn't make me an Albanian.

There is zero evidence that I2 was brought by Slavic-speakers to the Balkans... only wannabe smart-asses who try to sell their opinions off as facts. Don't believe them.All the proof is there in the link, I checked it.

There is no diversity in "I2-din" clades of the Balkans, it expanded in the area recently thanks to the founder effect.

[Dema]

Single individuals sharing Y-DNA doesn't mean anything. I am E-V13 and it doesn't make me an Albanian.

There is zero evidence that I2 was brought by Slavic-speakers to the Balkans... only wannabe smart-asses who try to sell their opinions off as facts. Don't believe them.

What Skerdi told you is correct Loki. It has been calculated that all people bearing I2a1b M423 known as Dinaric come out of a single man who lived only 2200 years ago. And countries over the Carpathian mountains like Poland have more variations then Balkan does. So this is strongest proof that it has come with Slavs. Even tho there are some smaller proofs also like this haplo is not found West of Rhine river where Slavs have not intruded.

formed 5300 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp

So yes, it has come with Slavs. And even Serbs and everybody actually agrees on this.
Except Laberia :D

[geffao]

Teoricamente não 3 15

[Ranger0075]

Interesting

[Laberia]

It is not an accusation or something, I have said similar things about Greeks. I am sure the ethnic symbiosis and assimilation was/is as complicated in Albania as anywhere else.

No, it's not true. We are two neighbouring countries, but not with the same story. The invasion of Greece from foreign population is documented. It's also documented the assimilation of this population and the invention of greek nation. You have to answer to my question, what happened to all this slavs in South Albania?

[Dick]

Ok, I checked again and the inconsistency seems to be with the calculator that calculates x and y axis: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I basically retried my results again just to see how accurate they are and it placed me on the same spot where Xhak Bauer and Kurt are. What we are seeing there is two sub-clusters because they were done at different times. Don't waste your time with it, Saf.

It's an old calculator and a plot made by someone that didn't even invent that calculator. Petalpusher makes good calcs and plotting maps, at least he used to for TA members.

[Scholarios]

Looks more like Sarmato-Scythians then.

Irrelevant. Sarmato-scythians didn't settle balkans in the millions, bringing their language and culture with them. Them were the Slavs who did that. i.e. Slavs brought it. So a Slavicized Sarmato-Scythian descendant who crossed the Daunbe in 670AD is the ancestor of all them I2a1b Croats, Bosnians, and Tosks.



No, it's not true. We are two neighbouring countries, but not with the same story. The invasion of Greece from foreign population is documented. It's also documented the assimilation of this population and the invention of greek nation. You have to answer to my question, what happened to all this slavs in South Albania?

I've answered you several times. It's not my problem you swallowed the shit sandwich your national propaganda served you and has directed you to look outward instead of inward. Block-headed Balkan bastard.

[Laberia]

What Skerdi told you is correct Loki. It has been calculated that all people bearing I2a1b M423 known as Dinaric come out of a single man who lived only 2200 years ago. And countries over the Carpathian mountains like Poland have more variations then Balkan does. So this is strongest proof that it has come with Slavs. Even tho there are some smaller proofs also like this haplo is not found West of Rhine river where Slavs have not intruded.

formed 5300 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp

So yes, it has come with Slavs. And even Serbs and everybody actually agrees on this.
Except Laberia :D

I don't know what is an haplogroup, do you understand? I don't know genetics. But what is nonsense is that using a sample of 104 persons and latter say that 23 of the population is of slavic origine is stupid. Do you understand this? We don't know from which part of South Albania are this people. You have to put this data now and confront with history. Genetics can not take the place of history.

[Laberia]

Irrelevant. Sarmato-scythians didn't settle balkans in the millions, bringing their language and culture with them. Them were the Slavs who did that. i.e. Slavs brought it. So a Slavicized Sarmato-Scythian descendant who crossed the Daunbe in 670AD is the ancestor of all them I2a1b Croats, Bosnians, and Tosks.




I've answered you several times. It's not my problem you swallowed the shit sandwich your national propaganda served you and has directed you to look outward instead of inward. Block-headed Balkan bastard.

It's not problem of propaganda. You have this possibility to debunk this propaganda. You can not sell me as pure gold a test of 104 persons and decide later for an entire population. You can change your mirror with gold, but not with me.

[Scholarios]

I don't know what is an haplogroup, do you understand? I don't know genetics. But what is nonsense is that using a sample of 104 persons and latter say that 23 of the population is of slavic origine is stupid. Do you understand this? We don't know from which part of South Albania are this people. You have to put this data now and confront with history. Genetics can not take the place of history.

Poor little guy. Are you I2a1b? That's nice. It's not all bad. I imagine your great great grand-pappy looked like this Russian fella:

http://www.surrogatefinder.com/Photo/surrogates_7b78b6c54d08fac535cb2129cd1e7ea1.jpg



It's not problem of propaganda. You have this possibility to debunk this propaganda. You can not sell me as pure gold a test of 104 persons and decide later for an entire population. You can change your mirror with gold, but not with me.


What- you think they are going to test all of albania and kosovo? shithead. Look at the Albanian family tree DNA projects. History supports the settlement of Slavs in Epirus too. Duh.

But this is good. Step 1 in your journey to being a human-being: Self Knowledge.

[Laberia]

Poor little guy. Are you I2a1b? That's nice. It's not all bad. I imagine your great great grand-pappy looked like this Russian fella:

http://www.surrogatefinder.com/Photo/surrogates_7b78b6c54d08fac535cb2129cd1e7ea1.jpg

Scholarios, this is trolling. You can continue with this story but until now you have made here only a big shit. No sane person take seriously your claim.

[Scholarios]

Scholarios, this is trolling. You can continue with this story but until now you have made here only a big shit. No sane person take seriously your claim.

Every Albanian in this thread has told you the same thing. Not only Abubu, but also Dema, Skerdiliad, Xhak Bauer etc. And Dick the Serb. Only you and Loki (who is trolling) honestly say this. If I2 is some kind of Illyrian haplo, then that is fucking hilarious- because it means Serbs and Croats and North Greeks are more Illyrian than any Tosk or Gheg. LOL

http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg

[Wrong]

Laberia.

I know that you Labs are reputed for your hard-headed stubbornness, but it is time to realize the truth as everybody has been telling you here, I2a1b and R1a in the Balkans are completely of Slavonic origins.


Dwarven Lab battalion with the 'Stubborn' rule:


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/edgarschippers/warhammer%20dwarfs/DSC00095.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/52/28/325228e967d64d4cfa795e451e2861ec.jpg

[Lek]

It's an old calculator and a plot made by someone that didn't even invent that calculator. Petalpusher makes good calcs and plotting maps, at least he used to for TA members.

Petalpusher plotted me and nilotik very nice when I look at our gedmatch components. I'm guessing Kurgan will plot slightly south of me or south west of me and fustan. Somewhere in that place. Kurt will plot somewhere close too I believe. Maybe slightly south of me. Same with Dema. He probably plot the same. We will plot close in that circle if done correctly.

Some of those probably are correct. As I believe skerdi did plot me same as petalpusher before.I

[Wrong]

Petalpusher plotted me and nilotik very nice when I look at our gedmatch components. I'm guessing Kurgan will plot slightly south of me or south west of me and fustan. Somewhere in that place. Kurt will plot somewhere close too I believe. Maybe slightly south of me. Same with Dema. He probably plot the same. We will plot close in that circle if done correctly.

Some of those probably are correct. As I believe skerdi did plot me same as petalpusher before.IThat's right. This new plotting map caught me by surprise, since I've always been somewhere in the midst of Ghegnian plotting prior to this.

Was good to know that myself and the other newly added Albanians were plotting wrongly by far afterall, mistakes do happen. :D

Would be great if Skerdi/Saf adds a new map with with all Albanian plot results under the same algorithms, later on.

[Lek]

That's right. This new plotting map caught me by surprise, since I've always been somewhere in the midst of Ghegnian plotting prior to this.

Was good to know that myself and the other newly added Albanians were plotting wrongly by far afterall, mistakes do happen. :D

Would be great if Skerdi/Saf adds a new map with with all Albanian plot results under the same algorithms, later on.

I'm working on getting a new map done. I've collected so far several k15 calcs. Can you send me skerdis kit nr and fustans if you
got

You and ylla get a lot of east med btw.

My estimation where we will plot is just a guess :p

[Wrong]

I'm working on getting a new map done. I've collected so far several k15 calcs. Can you send me skerdis kit nr and fustans if you
got

You and ylla get a lot of east med btw.

My estimation where we will plot is just a guess :pAh cool. I don't have their kit numbers, I'll ask Fustan and send to you, Skerdi will prolly PM it to you.

Yes. In my case some extra East Med shouldn't be too surprising considering one grandparent is from Ohrid, quite south.

Still I didn't get additional Slavonic-like admixture such as Baltic & East Euro, it's in line with most other Ghegs. Not that I wouldn't mind it, I wouldn't mind at all marrying some other ethnicity provided there's mutual love in play. Primarily I would choose a Gheg waifu, of course.


Only been at Ohrid twice in my lifetime, but it's absolutely stunning:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GYApZDrr81w/VIOIM_RDYRI/AAAAAAAADW4/5oTu9O3Uq30/s1600/Ohrid%2BMacedonia%2Bcity%2Bstreets%2B%2BBalkans%2B eastern%2Beurope%2Bbeaches%2Bmost%2Bbeautiful%2Bla ndscapes.jpg
http://travel2macedonia.com.mk/images/sights/18/saint-jovan-kaneo-monastery-ohrid.jpg

http://www.exploringmacedonia.com/content/images/Sv.%20Naum/large/St.%20Naum%20Monastery%20by%20Ohrid%20municipality %20.jpg

[Laberia]

Laberia.

I know that you Labs are reputed for your hard-headed stubbornness, but it is time to realize the truth as everybody has been telling you here, I2a1b and R1a in the Balkans are completely of Slavonic origins.


Dwarven Lab battalion with the 'Stubborn' rule:


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/edgarschippers/warhammer%20dwarfs/DSC00095.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/52/28/325228e967d64d4cfa795e451e2861ec.jpg

OK, since Scholarios don't want to elaborate his theory i am going to ask you. Where are all this slavs?

[Laberia]

Every Albanian in this thread has told you the same thing. Not only Abubu, but also Dema, Skerdiliad, Xhak Bauer etc. And Dick the Serb. Only you and Loki (who is trolling) honestly say this. If I2 is some kind of Illyrian haplo, then that is fucking hilarious- because it means Serbs and Croats and North Greeks are more Illyrian than any Tosk or Gheg. LOL

http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DBFs52N.jpg

Scholarios, first of all you have not a theory. Do you have one? Tell me.

[Wrong]

OK, since Scholarios don't want to elaborate his theory i am going to ask you. Where are all this slavs?You will know this once you learn how direct patrilineal lines work.

[Lek]

Ah cool. I don't have their kit numbers, I'll ask Fustan and send to you, Skerdi will prolly PM it to you.

Yes. In my case some extra East Med shouldn't be too surprising considering one grandparent is from Ohrid, quite south.

Still I didn't get additional Slavonic-like admixture such as Baltic & East Euro, it's in line with most other Ghegs. Not that I wouldn't mind it, I wouldn't mind at all marrying some other ethnicity provided there's mutual love in play. Primarily I would choose a Gheg waifu, of course.

I just realised what nilotik had sent me wasn't his k15 but it was something close but will fix that. Got his kit nr. It's almost ready to be made. I will ask deburgh to do it. . Got some Greek and Albanian users. Skerdi and fustan will be added later.

[Wrong]

. .

[Dick]

. .

I concur.

[Laberia]

You will know this once you learn how direct patrilineal lines work.

I don't know this, i am waiting you to explain. My question id simple and nobody from you want to answer:
Where the fuck are this slavs in South Albania? Do you have an answer?

[Wrong]

I concur.Doppelpost accident

[Dick]

Where the fuck are this slavs in South Albania? Do you have an answer?

In your ballsack, semen, cum, snps etc

[Wrong]

I don't know this, i am waiting you to explain. My question id simple and nobody from you want to answer:
Where the fuck are this slavs in South Albania? Do you have an answer?
https://imgflip.com/s/meme/X-Everywhere.jpg

[Laberia]

In your ballsack, semen, cum, snps etc
When and how this mixing happened?

[Laberia]

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/X-Everywhere.jpg

OK, you don't have an answer.

[Lek]

I don't know this, i am waiting you to explain. My question id simple and nobody from you want to answer:
Where the fuck are this slavs in South Albania? Do you have an answer?

Assimilated. Just like normans were in north

[Dick]

When and how this mixing happened?

Dude, everyone in the Balkans were fucking together before the Ottomans divided everyone via religious lines. Nobody cared!

[Laberia]

Guys, Scholarios is a retard and this is a fact. I invite you, don't follow his example.

[Wrong]

There is this I2a2 clade that exists among Albanians, but it has nothing to do with I2a1b-Din. There was an Albanian from FYROM that had this NW Euro clade.

I2a1b-Din is the one in huge % and was definitely brought by Slavic speakers & perhaps Vlachs to Toskeria.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Iirk_VViZhw/maxresdefault.jpg

[Laberia]

Assimilated. Just like normans were in north

When happened this process and how? Hope that you can explain this story.

[Laberia]

Dude, everyone in the Balkans were fucking together before the Ottomans divided everyone via religious lines. Nobody cared!

Not exactly.

[Wrong]

Not exactly.They did, otherwise we would all be inbred. Fresh blood to the genepool is good.

[Lek]

When happened this process and how? Hope that you can explain this story.

Historical records. Search it up.

[Dick]

There is this I2a2 clade that exists among Albanians, but it has nothing to do with I2a1b-Din. There was an Albanian from FYROM that had this NW Euro clade.

I2a1b-Din is the one in huge % and was definitely brought by Slavic speakers & perhaps Vlachs to Toskeria.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Iirk_VViZhw/maxresdefault.jpg

Could've come with slavs too :heh:

http://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=I2M223

[Laberia]

Historical records. Search it up.

I can not search to prove your theory. It's you who have to prove your theory. This is what I am asking to this retard Scholarios. Prove it. There is no serious scholar in the world who deal with all the crap of genetics posted here. Do you understand?
So, bring us this historical records.

[Wrong]

Could've come with slavs too :heh:

http://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=I2M223Slavs, Normans, Saxons, Celts, Norse, Goths, Huns, Boogars :D

[Dick]

Not exactly.

Even the aristocracy, lords, elite, nobles, upper class, peerage, ruling class, patricians were mixing. You think common peasants weren't? Sure they were. :laugh2:

[Wrong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgTxOhUEL8w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSF_LSN-jHg

[Profileid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgTxOhUEL8w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSF_LSN-jHg

De Niro was always sort of a slimy type of person. I never got a good feeling of him.
Those are two odd things to say.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

De Niro was always sort of a slimy type of person. I never got a good feeling of him.
Those are two odd things to say.

You're being unfair to DeNiro. It's very difficult to hear what he's saying because of these fucking foreigners but in the second video he's talking about a movie he shot in Belgrade and I'm guessing he joked that maybe he has Serbian ancestry because he felt comfortable there, or felt a connection to the people, or whatever is that American actors say to foreign media to come across as likable.

DeNiro is a great man. Well, he was a great man up until the mid 90s. Since then he makes crappy movies but respect that unlike other Hollywood people he's a very private person. When he spoke out about Trump it was a surprise but I suppose he felt it necessary. It was pretty much known he was a Democrat but he didn't talk about politics.

[Wrong]

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/albanian-bloodlines/about/results

This is the way to discuss
there is a number there, are all haplogroups of all the members
all the rest is just speculation. If you enjoy it, ok i am happy for you.Yeah, 3 Slavic y-dna haplogroups in an overwhelming number of 110 Albanian Ghegide samples :D

Dema's J2b1 sticks out like a sore thumb between the 34 J2b2 samples xD


Mtdna may be a different story, but who cares about that?

[Lek]

I can not search to prove your theory. It's you who have to prove your theory. This is what I am asking to this retard Scholarios. Prove it. There is no serious scholar in the world who deal with all the crap of genetics posted here. Do you understand?
So, bring us this historical records.

Fam u know I'm bringin'it back I put tha mic down

[Laberia]

Fam u know I'm bringin'it back I put tha mic down

OK, go ahead.

[Dick]

Mtdna may be a different story, but who cares about that?

I care! Mine's obviously Magnolianski EEW czech pr0n.

http://i65.tinypic.com/rucq6o.jpg

[Lek]

OK, go ahead.

Gave me a strip tease cuz she so sexyyyyy

[Laberia]

Even the aristocracy, lords, elite, nobles, upper class, peerage, ruling class, patricians were mixing. You think common peasants weren't? Sure they were. :laugh2:

I want to make clear that i have never talk about ethnic purity. My opinion about slavs in South Albania i have expressed here:


It's in the History of Albania, Histori e Shqipërisë. When there was the slavic invasion, there were some Sclavonia in this regions of Opar, Korça and Skrapar, Berat. Byzantines gather this slavs and send them in Asia Minor. Did the Byzantine gather all this slavs? I doubt. There is an document that can help us to understand the situation. The memories of Gjon Muzaka. His family was exactly from the region of Korça and he speak about some villages of slavs in Opar. We know about the existence of this people. Today they are assimilated in our nation,they are Albanians like all of us. But the Muzaka family was the ruling family of Epir, they were Despot of Epir. And for centuries their capital was Berat. And when we say Berat, the highland of this city is Skrapar. He don't mention slavs in Skrapar. He speak even about a place in Skrapar, where according to him, there is gold, but he don't speak about slavs. This is the story of slavic settlements in South Albania. Only few villages in the highland of Korça and maybe some left overs in Skrapar. Of course, Geni is excluded, lol.

[Coolguy1]

I want to make clear that i have never talk about ethnic purity. My opinion about slavs in South Albania i have expressed here:

No, you are wrong, no Byzantine Empire took the Slavs out of Albania. In the chronicle of Monemvasia the governor of Corinth exterminated the Slavs, and let the Greeks return to their homes. Nothing is to be said about Albania.

[Laberia]

No, you are wrong, no Byzantine Empire took the Slavs out of Albania. In the chronicle of Monemvasia the governor of Corinth exterminated the Slavs, and let the Greeks return to their homes. Nothing is to be said about Albania.

I told you once, you are just a tool in the hand of other people here. You have not an personality.

[Wrong]

Laberian dwarf battalion:


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c140/edgarschippers/warhammer%20dwarfs/DSC00095.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/52/28/325228e967d64d4cfa795e451e2861ec.jpg

[catgeorge]

I told you once, you are just a tool in the hand of other people here. You have not an personality.

Laberia 90% of your posts is merely a projection of yourself.

[Coolguy1]

I told you once, you are just a tool in the hand of other people here. You have not an personality.

Yeah, its clear that you know you are wrong as usual. Please, provide the source that mentions Slavs being removed from Albania by the Byzantines.

Btw, learn to speak better English.

[Laberia]

.....

If you have problems in your family with Bratstvo i jedinstvo like bubu, i am sorry but i can not help.

[catgeorge]

Epirus Vetus was a popular stomping ground for barbarians

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Macedonia_ad400.png

Visigoths, Huns, and Ostrogoths had their fun until 461 AD... then Avars attacked in 570; and then South Slavs were allowed to settle in 7th century.
In the Strategikon and De Administrando Imperio explained the settlement process allowed by Byzantine Emperors and Generals guarding the northern imperial lands.

There were deportations to Minor Asia to boost military numbers when they decided to get frisky.

[catgeorge]

BTW no mention of Illyrians nor Albanians in De Administrando Imperio nor in the Strategikon.

[Laberia]

Epirus Vetus was a popular stomping ground for barbarians

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Macedonia_ad400.png

Visigoths, Huns, and Ostrogoths had their fun until 461 AD... then Avars attacked in 570; and then South Slavs were allowed to settle in 7th century.
In the Strategikon and De Administrando Imperio explained the settlement process allowed by Byzantine Emperors and Generals guarding the northern imperial lands.

There were deportations to Minor Asia to boost military numbers when they decided to get frisky.

Ancestry
North Greek Mountains + Thessaloniki and Constantinople city slicker.
OK triracial.

[Laberia]

Kurgan

View Poll Results: How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?Voters 117.
Paleolithic continuity 6051.28%
A. Papadimitriou, Anatolian chevalier, andrewqazx, Asturrulumbo, Aughex, Azzurro, bicicleur, Boreas, Cambrius (The Red), Cip, Cosmin Malus Dacus, Dagne, Dale Cooper, Dianatomia, Dinarid, Dorianfinder, DTG, Милан М., epoch, Expredel, F117stealth, Finalise, Fire Haired, Garrick, Greying Wanderer, Hakan67, Hauteville, JohnnieMc73, Jovan, Kurgan, Maciamo, matbir, Melancon, Menus, MOESAN, musharraf, Nik, nordicwarbler, nordicwarrior, PaschalisB, Pax Augusta, PerfectGingerAllen, Popa Cristian, Regio X, Rethel, RHAS, rms2, RobertColumbia, Rum, Sakattack, singingfalls, skaheen15, suebiking, SuperStalin, Templar, The_Lyonnist, Twilight, UltraViolence, zanipolo
The Early Indo-Europeans 65.13%
adamo, Diurpaneus, DNZ, Gungnir, julia90, pipinnacanus
Sea Peoples 00%
The Sarmatians 32.56%
Bodin, Goga, Niccoleo
The Slavs 3731.62%
alais, Artmar, Atlantische, Bardhyl, Besa, Djordjo, Eldritch, Evilixir, gashi91, Gorgonzola, Gosh, hawklutz, hrvat22, iapodos, Ike, IronSide, kamani, KN29, kokki, Korbyn, lyakh, Malsori, MaxCRO, Michał, Paleoguy, Ralphie Boy, razor, Semitic Duwa, Shetop, sparkey, terranova, Tomenable, trdbr1234, Trojet, Vedun, Yetos, Zemra
Other (please tell us your theory) 119.40%
Aha, Alan, Fire Haired14, FrankN, GloomyGonzales, gyms, Haustor, mihaitzateo, motzart, Pirro, Sile


Do you see your nickname here? How do you explain that you changed opinion?

[Scholarios]

...

[Scholarios]

View Poll Results: How did I2a-Din get to the Balkans?Voters 117.
Paleolithic continuity 6051.28%
A. Papadimitriou, Anatolian chevalier, andrewqazx, Asturrulumbo, Aughex, Azzurro, bicicleur, Boreas, Cambrius (The Red), Cip, Cosmin Malus Dacus, Dagne, Dale Cooper, Dianatomia, Dinarid, Dorianfinder, DTG, Милан М., epoch, Expredel, F117stealth, Finalise, Fire Haired, Garrick, Greying Wanderer, Hakan67, Hauteville, JohnnieMc73, Jovan, Kurgan, Maciamo, matbir, Melancon, Menus, MOESAN, musharraf, Nik, nordicwarbler, nordicwarrior, PaschalisB, Pax Augusta, PerfectGingerAllen, Popa Cristian, Regio X, Rethel, RHAS, rms2, RobertColumbia, Rum, Sakattack, singingfalls, skaheen15, suebiking, SuperStalin, Templar, The_Lyonnist, Twilight, UltraViolence, zanipolo
The Early Indo-Europeans 65.13%
adamo, Diurpaneus, DNZ, Gungnir, julia90, pipinnacanus
Sea Peoples 00%
The Sarmatians 32.56%
Bodin, Goga, Niccoleo
The Slavs 3731.62%
alais, Artmar, Atlantische, Bardhyl, Besa, Djordjo, Eldritch, Evilixir, gashi91, Gorgonzola, Gosh, hawklutz, hrvat22, iapodos, Ike, IronSide, kamani, KN29, kokki, Korbyn, lyakh, Malsori, MaxCRO, Michał, Paleoguy, Ralphie Boy, razor, Semitic Duwa, Shetop, sparkey, terranova, Tomenable, trdbr1234, Trojet, Vedun, Yetos, Zemra
Other (please tell us your theory) 119.40%
Aha, Alan, Fire Haired14, FrankN, GloomyGonzales, gyms, Haustor, mihaitzateo, motzart, Pirro, Sile


Do you see your nickname here? How do you explain that you changed opinion?




Ha look at this piece of work here. Using a fucking Eupedia user poll as evidence. Pathetic degenerate piece of I2a1b . We might as well use a Apricity poll right now. Sorcelow- set this one up as a poll bro- since I and abubu are manipulating you. I wanna see this little Slavonic progeny's face when the poll says it's Slavic and we can enter it into official evidence.

[Laberia]

Ha look at this piece of work here. Using a fucking Eupedia user poll as evidence. Pathetic degenerate piece of I2a1b . We might as well use a Apricity poll right now. Sorcelow- set this one up as a poll bro- since I and abubu are manipulating you. I wanna see this little Slavonic progeny's face when the poll says it's Slavic and we can enter it into official evidence.

No, i am not using Eupedia as a scientific evidence. I am using as a prove that this Xhak Bauër aka Kurgan once had an opinion today he has changed his opinion, we don't know what will happen tomorrow. You didn't noticed Kurgan underlined? Or as usually you want to troll?
BTW, Scholarios are you going to explain what is your theory here, or you will continue with your hobby, trolling?

[Scholarios]

No, i am not using Eupedia as a scientific evidence. I am using as a prove that this Xhak Bauër aka Kurgan once had an opinion today he has changed his opinion, we don't know what will happen tomorrow. You didn't noticed Kurgan underlined? Or as usually you want to troll?
BTW, Scholarios are you going to explain what is your theory here, or you will continue with your hobby, trolling?

dear Vagentian -- did you or did you not use this eupedia page poll as proof that the status of i2a1b was "undecided" in the scientific community on a previous page-- you little slavolab ?


answer the question now please.

[Drawing-slim]

I have 1400 relatives on 23andme. I cant comprehend the amount of vanity and insecurity you guys must have to actually claim that you have looked at all of them and not a singlle 12a1 on your lists.
I am I2a and i have majority of albos catholics and muslims from montengero also many of them. All relatives of mine according to my list. But i only looked about 10 or 15 of them though
Considering half or more dont have names nor results for you to see?!

[Laberia]

dear Vagentian -- did you or did you not use this eupedia page poll as proof that the status of i2a1b was "undecided" in the scientific community on a previous page-- you little slavolab ?


answer the question now please.

Yes, i use it as prove that among members of specialised forum in genetics there is no consensus about this haplogroup. This members has used the opinion of many scholars, each side to prove their theory. As i said, i don't understand genetics. Reading the posts of this members i noticed the fact that exist different opinions, not only among members of a forum who are just nicknames and we don't know their academic background so they can't be a serious source, but also among scholars. I have said many times that i can not take seriously anonymus sources of XXI century like wikipidhi or even this forum Eupedia, or for example your Dienekes who nobody know who the hell is this.
I posted the results, because i want to prove you that you have lost your second soldier. First was this pussy cat Sorcelow and now you lost this...... piece of shit, Xhak Bauër, aka Kurgan who became Kurban for you and he lost his face.
About genetics i have expressed my opinion. What you and other are doing here is pseudo science. From what i know, genetics can tell you where were your ancestors 25.000 years ago. It's interesting to find your parents around the world, i remember Leo Messi discovered that he was cousin with a slav player, but discussing about nations and ethnic groups, i think it's a little bit complicated.
Since you want to continue with genetics, i want to repeat my question:
How % of this 104 Tosk Albanians were R1a? You have read this study, can you tell me please?

[Scholarios]

Yes, i use it as prove that among members of specialised forum in genetics there is no consensus about this haplogroup. This members has used many scholars, each side to prove their theory. As i said, i don't understand genetics. Reading the post of this members i noticed the fact that exist different opinions, not only among members of a forum who are just nicknames and we don't know their academic background so they can't be a serious source, but also among scholars.
I posted the results, because i want to prove you that you have lost your second soldier. First was this pussy cat Sorcelow and now you lost this...... piece of shit, Xhak Bauër, aka Kurgan who became Kurban for you and he lose his face.
About genetics i have expressed my opinion. What you and other are doing here is pseudo science. From what i know, genetics can tell you where were your ancestors 25.000 years ago. It's interesting to find your parents around the world, i remember Leo Messi discovered that he was cousin with a slav player, but discussing about nations and ethnic groups, i think it's a little bit complicated.
Since you want to continue with genetics, i want to repeat my question:
How % of this 104 Tosk Albanians were R1a? You have read this study, can you tell me please?


Ha "specialized forum in genetics" and "pseudo-science". Seriously man, just eat a dick.

[Laberia]

Ha "specialized forum in genetics" and "pseudo-science". Seriously man, just eat a dick.

Can you answer to my question?

[Scholarios]

Can you answer to my question?

Yes, but read it yourself or ask the " specialised forum in genetics ".

[Laberia]

Yes, but read it yourself or ask the " specialised forum in genetics ".

Scholarios, first i have to learn genetics and later i can read a scientific paper. I am asking for your help because you know from genetics and you have read this study. Why is so difficult for you to post here this result? Come on, we are discussing here, you can do it.

[Scholarios]

Scholarios, first i have to learn genetics and later i can read a scientific paper. I am asking for your help because you know from genetics and you have read this study. Why is so difficult for you to post here this result? Come on, we are discussing here, you can do it.

First of all , I already posted it- just search the thread.(it's also posted on this forum by Trojet ) Second, you don't need to understand genetics , All you need to do is read the tallies of how much r1a1 and i2a1b was collected from Tosks and Arbershe.

Then btw take 23andme and/or ftnda and post your results. Of course though, your personality type is similar to a brachycephalic Hellenas- all talk, but little balls. Troll behaviour , I know, but so tedious.


Now if you don't have anything valuable to add, and cannot answer my questions like a man, back on block you go.

[Laberia]

First of all , I already posted it- just search the thread.(it's also posted on this forum by Trojet ) Second, you don't need to understand genetics , All you need to do is read the tallies of how much r1a1 and i2a1b was collected from Tosks and Arbershe.

Then btw take 23andme and/or ftnda and post your results. Of course though, your personality type is similar to a brachycephalic Hellenas- all talk, but little balls. Troll behaviour , I know, but so tedious.


Now if you don't have anything valuable to add, and cannot answer my questions like a man, back on block you go.

I asked about the % of R1a among this 104 Tosk Albanians. Can you give an answer?

[Laberia]

First of all , I already posted it- just search the thread.(it's also posted on this forum by Trojet ) Second, you don't need to understand genetics , All you need to do is read the tallies of how much r1a1 and i2a1b was collected from Tosks and Arbershe.

Then btw take 23andme and/or ftnda and post your results. Of course though, your personality type is similar to a brachycephalic Hellenas- all talk, but little balls. Troll behaviour , I know, but so tedious.


Now if you don't have anything valuable to add, and cannot answer my questions like a man, back on block you go.

Well, it's time to remember you this:


Scholarios, if you want to discuss, i am here. If you want to troll, ask for blowjob to your bubu.
First, tell us what is your theory.
Second, elaborate your theory.
Third, use credible sources to prove your theory, genetics is accepted.
Fourth, go ahead, i am waiting.

[ilir]

They are trolling and enjoying pretty much.
More you engage and more they enjoy it. I am not against their happiness but don't help them.

[Laberia]

They are trolling and enjoying pretty much.
More you engage and more they enjoy it. I am not against their happiness but don't help them.

Everyone play his game. My point is to prove that this Scholarios is a small retard nationalist greek. He have lost all the discussions with me. This is the reason of his nervousness. There is nothing difference between Hellenas and Scholarios, both sides of the same coin. One is an natural born idiot, the other is an idiot who pretend to be smartass.
Anyway, Scholarios have stop with his very informative threads about the history of Albania. This must be considered an achievement. Sta giocando alla difensiva.

[Wrong]

Do you see your nickname here? How do you explain that you changed opinion?Troll answer. Probably 5 years ago.

Edit: That's not me, it's some other Kurgan from Eupedia, I don't have an account there myself, LOL

[Herr Abubu]

I have 1400 relatives on 23andme. I cant comprehend the amount of vanity and insecurity you guys must have to actually claim that you have looked at all of them and not a singlle 12a1 on your lists.
I am I2a and i have majority of albos catholics and muslims from montengero also many of them. All relatives of mine according to my list. But i only looked about 10 or 15 of them though
Considering half or more dont have names nor results for you to see?!

Yup. Problem is that 23andme lists I2-Din as I2a2 and I2a2b, which there are plenty of on my list. And as Albanians we're going to have plenty of South Slavs as relatives, so it's only natural that at least one I2-Din should appear.

[Herr Abubu]

Yup. Problem is that 23andme lists I2-Din as I2a2 and I2a2b, which there are plenty of on my list. And as Albanians we're going to have plenty of South Slavs as relatives, so it's only natural that at least one I2-Din should appear.

Oh, and a funny anecdote: one of my R1a relatives on 23andme is an Arvanite with the surname "Liapis" from Corinth, afaik settled with Arvanites, and Athens, the Albanian village. SlavoArvanite confirmed.

[Wrong]

Ha look at this piece of work here. Using a fucking Eupedia user poll as evidence. Pathetic degenerate piece of I2a1b . We might as well use a Apricity poll right now. Sorcelow- set this one up as a poll bro- since I and abubu are manipulating you. I wanna see this little Slavonic progeny's face when the poll says it's Slavic and we can enter it into official evidence.LOL, that's Eupedia? Thought it was TA poll due to my old nickname highlighted. That's not even me since I never had an account on Eupedia to begin with :D

Guess that was never my opinion afterall about I2a1b.

Fucking pathetic of Laberia to dig things up that have nothing to do with me.

[Wrong]

LOL, that's Eupedia? Thought it was TA poll due to my old nickname highlighted. That's not even me since I never had an account on Eupedia to begin with :D

Guess that was never my opinion afterall about I2a1b.

Fucking pathetic of Laberia to dig things up that have nothing to do with me.Highlighting this, Laberia, stop coping.

Verdict always and forever: "I2a1b-Din" is of slavic extraction

[Wrong]

They are trolling and enjoying pretty much.
More you engage and more they enjoy it. I am not against their happiness but don't help them.It is not trolling, but stating the facts. I2a1b-"Din" was brought by Slavonic speakers and is not from the Balkans.

Northeastern Romania at best could be its place of origin but it's not probable, since it expanded from more northeast of Europe.

So many bluepills in this forum.

[Trojet]

Labëria bro, I really don't want to be involved in this topic, but Albs like you who are so immature regarding genetics, yet choose to engage in this topic and stick to their theories are really pushing me. There is a lot more data on I2a1-CTS10228 aka Dinaric now then there was just two years ago.
It's not just Sarno et al. 2015, it's also Ferri et al 2010. What do you want, a study that will test every single Albanian. Mind that we now have data from our own project also.

[Era]

Labëria bro, I really don't want to be involved in this topic, but Albs like you who are so immature regarding genetics, yet choose to engage in this topic and stick to their theories are really pushing me. There is a lot more data on I2a1-CTS10228 aka Dinaric now then there was just two years ago.
It's not just Sarno et al. 2015, it's also Ferri et al 2010. What do you want, a study that will test every single Albanian. Mind that we now have data from our own project also.

I asked before but since you're here, how come I have over 1K relatives and nobody with this haplo. Is this under any other name?

[Era]

I have 1400 relatives on 23andme. I cant comprehend the amount of vanity and insecurity you guys must have to actually claim that you have looked at all of them and not a singlle 12a1 on your lists.
I am I2a and i have majority of albos catholics and muslims from montengero also many of them. All relatives of mine according to my list. But i only looked about 10 or 15 of them though
Considering half or more dont have names nor results for you to see?!

lol, simple, you can export them in an excel file and sort by alphabetical order. :)

23andme has that feature itself.

[Wrong]

I asked before but since you're here, how come I have over 1K relatives and nobody with this haplo. Is this under any other name?Are you mostly Gheg?

3 of the 110 Ghegs in the Albanian bloodlines project get I2a at best. So it's not surprising you are not getting any I2a relatives. :D

[Era]

Are you mostly Gheg?

3 of the 110 Ghegs in the Albanian bloodlines project get I2a at best. So it's not surprising you are not getting any I2a relatives. :D

I am central Albania gheg so I have many tosk relatives, including Safinator here, 3 segments. And given my large number of relatives it's strange that I dont have any.

[Wrong]

I am central Albania gheg so I have many tosk relatives, including Safinator here, 3 segments. And given my large number of relatives it's strange that I dont have any.Well you are not Labs, so you are safe.

[Skerdilaid]

I asked before but since you're here, how come I have over 1K relatives and nobody with this haplo. Is this under any other name?

Go under "Family and Friends", "DNA Relatives" and under the search box on top there enter just "I2" - you should have plenty like all of us.

[Wrong]

Go under "Family and Friends", "DNA Relatives" and under the search box on top there enter just "I2" - you should have plenty like all of us.Just gotta watch out for the maternal I2 since it appears there too.

[Trojet]

I asked before but since you're here, how come I have over 1K relatives and nobody with this haplo. Is this under any other name?

23andMe is using old nomenclatures and doesn't test for seep subclades.
However, Go to your 23andMe and look how many relatives you have with Y-DNA I2a2 (international version and uses old nomenclature) or I-M423 (US version).