Prussian German GEDmatch results

[Peterski]

Prussian German in GEDmatch (family tree and kit numbers are in links below):

Family tree: https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Steinbach-Family-Tree-105

GEDmatch kit: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Steinbach-105

Ancestral surnames (16 g-g grandparents): Steinbach, Liebenau, Gnoss, Scheffler, Hass, Hasse, Voss, Zimmermann, Kopiske, Eichstädt, Feustel, Schmeisser, Hedke, Lück, Neumann, Schulz

Eurogenes K13 results:

Kit A682720

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.43
2 North_Atlantic 37.01
3 West_Med 12.1
4 West_Asian 4.1
5 East_Med 3.24
6 Red_Sea 1.43
7 Northeast_African 0.63
8 Oceanian 0.6
9 South_Asian 0.43
10 Amerindian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 6.86
2 Polish 7.61
3 Southwest_Finnish 8.08
4 East_German 8.42
5 Ukrainian 9.22
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.24
7 North_Swedish 9.5
8 Austrian 10.9
9 Hungarian 11.08
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.11
11 Belorussian 11.32
12 Croatian 11.49
13 Estonian_Polish 11.6
14 Estonian 11.88
15 Finnish 12.26
16 Southwest_Russian 12.63
17 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.04
18 Swedish 13.46
19 Lithuanian 14.72
20 North_German 14.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74% Polish + 26% Southwest_English @ 1.98
2 64.7% Estonian_Polish + 35.3% Southwest_English @ 2.04
3 72.1% Polish + 27.9% Orcadian @ 2.19
4 73.9% Polish + 26.1% West_Scottish @ 2.21
5 72.6% Polish + 27.4% Southeast_English @ 2.24
6 65.7% Russian_Smolensk + 34.3% Southwest_English @ 2.26
7 65.3% Belorussian + 34.7% Southwest_English @ 2.28
8 70.1% Polish + 29.9% North_Dutch @ 2.3
9 73.1% Polish + 26.9% Irish @ 2.31
10 55.4% Lithuanian + 44.6% South_Dutch @ 2.33
11 69.3% Polish + 30.7% Norwegian @ 2.45
12 69.9% Polish + 30.1% Danish @ 2.51
13 59% Lithuanian + 41% Southwest_English @ 2.55
14 64.8% Polish + 35.2% Swedish @ 2.56
15 63.5% Estonian_Polish + 36.5% Irish @ 2.56
16 63% Estonian_Polish + 37% Southeast_English @ 2.59
17 64% Russian_Smolensk + 36% Southeast_English @ 2.59
18 64.6% Estonian_Polish + 35.4% West_Scottish @ 2.61
19 57% Lithuanian + 43% Southeast_English @ 2.62
20 62.4% Estonian_Polish + 37.6% Orcadian @ 2.64

[brennus dux gallorum]

Very close to neighboring Slavs.

Germans used to consider slavs as inferior, yet they are much closer to them, not only genetically but from every aspect, than they thought

[Voskos]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Kolovrat_%28%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%80%D 0%B0%D1%82%29_Swastika_%28%D0%A1%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81 %D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%29_-_Rodnovery.jpg

[Peterski]

Very close to neighboring Slavs.

Indeed.

BTW, I checked the regions of birth of her 16 great-grandparents:

West Prussia - 5 (Steinbach, Liebenau, Kopiske, Hedke, Lück)
Pomerania - 4 (Zimmermann, Voss, Hasse, Hass)
Provinz Posen - 3 (Eichstädt, Neumann, Schulz)
East Prussia - 2 (Scheffler, Gnoss)
Sachsen - 1 (Schmeisser)
Thüringen - 1 (Feustel)

[Sacrificed Ram]

Many protestant slavs were germanized, it can explain something, despite I considered the protestant slavs more related with czeches than with poles.

[Peterski]

Here birthplaces of her 16 ancestors (2 were Non-Prussian East Germans):

http://i.imgur.com/n2ExaaO.png

[Dick]

"Estonian_Polish" sample?

[Dick]

Many protestant slavs were germanized, it can explain something, despite I considered the protestant slavs more related with czeches than with poles.

Maybe so but Judging by the surnames it also seems as though they had Slavic wives.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Maybe so but Judging by the surnames it also seems as though they had Slavic wives.

Or adopted german surnames.

[Dick]

Or adopted german surnames.

That too.

[Smitty]

Maybe so but Judging by the surnames it also seems as though they had Slavic wives.

The only ones that look Polish are Kopiske and maybe Hedke, no?

[Sacrificed Ram]

"sky" is the slav suffix for "man", Kopiske sounds a germanized slav surname.

[Dick]

The only ones that look Polish are Kopiske and maybe Hedke, no?

Idk, I assume the proper spellings would be Kopischke and Hedtke(nickname for Heidrich)

[Peterski]

"Estonian_Polish" sample?

Yes, there is some Polish minority in Estonia.

[Dick]

"sky" is the slav suffix for "man", Kopiske sounds a germanized slav surname.

Or the fact that eastern Germanics have been mixing with Slavics for centuries.




Germans used to consider slavs as inferior, yet they are much closer to them, not only genetically but from every aspect, than they thought

Thanks to Hitler's insanity. Germanic Austrians and Slavs were mixing during the A-H Empire.

[Dick]

Yes, there is some Polish minority in Estonia.

They mixed with Estonians I assume hence the sample or Davidski wanted to be unique with his calc?

[Peterski]

The only ones that look Polish are Kopiske and maybe Hedke, no?

Among those 16, only Kopiske is Slavic.

One of possible options is that she had Slavic ancestors who became Germanized before they started using surnames. In Central and Eastern Europe surnames became common only after the Middle Ages.

Hence, German surnames but Slavic DNA.


They mixed with Estonians I assume hence the sample or Davidski wanted to be unique with his calc?

Yeah. But some Poles from Poland also get "Estonian_Polish" in Single Population Sharing.

For example Physical-Anthro from our forum gets "Estonian_Polish" in Eurogenes K13.

=================

About Estonian Poles: http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2014/02/genetic-affinities-of-estonian-poles.html


most of Estonian Poles are not of recent Polish origin, but have roots in the East Baltic dating back to the Polish-ruled Duchy of Livonia of the 1600s

[Smitty]

Among those 16, only Kopiske is Slavic.

One of possible options is that she had Slavic ancestors who became Germanized before they started using surnames. In Central and Eastern Europe surnames became common only after the Middle Ages.

Hence, German surnames but Slavic DNA.



Yeah. But some Poles from Poland also get "Estonian_Polish" in Single Population Sharing.

For example Physical-Anthro from our forum gets "Estonian_Polish" in Eurogenes K13.

She is from East Germany, right? Currently, I mean, of course. This interests me, since I have ancestry from East Germany.

[Dick]

Among those 16, only Kopiske is Slavic.

One of possible options is that she had Slavic ancestors who became Germanized before they started using surnames. In Central and Eastern Europe surnames became common only after the Middle Ages.

Hence, German surnames but Slavic DNA.




Now I wonder how many of Prussians have Sorb ancestry.

[Peterski]

And more about Estonian Poles:

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2015/09/finno-ugric-poles-in-kushniarevich-et.html


She is from East Germany, right? Currently, I mean, of course.

It seems that she lives in the USA.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Or the fact that eastern Germanics have been mixing with Slavics for centuries.



Thanks to Hitler's insanity. Germanic Austrians and Slavs were mixing during the A-H Empire.

Among non slavs, All Germans are the most Slavic mixed people after Hungarians and balts or Estonians

Even in western Germany there were Slavic populations due to trades

[Peterski]

I use "Prussian German" as "German from areas to the East of the Oder-Neisse":

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/germany/prussia17951803.gif

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/germany/prussia17951803.gif

[Peterski]

Below is a comparison of Prussian German and Prussian Polish (my) results in Eurogenes K36.

But the Prussian German has geographically more diverse and more northern origins than me.

This map shows areas where 16 great-great-grandparents of the Prussian German were born:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?204874-Prussian-German-GEDmatch-results&p=4280135&viewfull=1#post4280135

10/16 of her g-g-grandparents are from the borderlands of West Prussia, Pommern & Posen:


I checked the regions of birth of her 16 great-grandparents (surnames):

West Prussia - 5 (Steinbach, Liebenau, Kopiske, Hedke, Lück)
Pomerania - 4 (Zimmermann, Voss, Hasse, Hass)
Provinz Posen - 3 (Eichstädt, Neumann, Schulz)
East Prussia - 2 (Scheffler, Gnoss)
Sachsen - 1 (Schmeisser)
Thüringen - 1 (Feustel)

http://i.imgur.com/oLnGoQk.png

And this map shows the area where all my (Prussian Polish) 8 great-grandparents were born:

http://i.imgur.com/OZM0WuD.png

Our Eurogenes K36 results (including my FTDNA format & my DNA.Land file in 23andMe format):



Population
Prussian German
My FTDNA format
My DNA.Land (23andMe format)


East-Central Euro
18.94
22.87
22.86


Eastern Euro
15.23
13.99
13.9


North Sea
15.22
11.81
11.74


Central Euro
11.01
9.8
9.72


North Atlantic
10.03
8.14
8.22


Fennoscandian
6.02
9.32
9.32


French
4.65
4.93
5


East Balkan
3.69
8.54
8.5


Italian
2.5
5.96
5.85


Basque
3.11
0.91
0.98


West Med
0.93
1.2
1.14


Iberian
8.38
0.39
0.5


North Caucasian
0
2.15
2.27


Volga-Ural
0.29
0
0



Prussian German Eurogenes K36 Oracle results:
(using a spreadsheet with 224 ref. populations)

1) Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_north @ 6,998097
2 Czechs_Moravians @ 9,303132
3 Ukrainian_West @ 9,549743
4 PL_SW_Malopolska @ 9,882557
5 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 10,022065
6 PL_Kashubians @ 10,490373
7 PL_Wielkopolska @ 10,555562
8 PL_South_Poland @ 10,655688
9 Slovak @ 10,796768
10 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 11,426138
11 PL_average @ 12,060201
12 PL_Mazovia @ 12,791173
13 Hungary @ 13,683147
14 Russian_Don_Cossack @ 13,777191
15 Hungarian_Slovenian @ 15,052587
16 Ukrainian_East @ 15,134748
17 Slovenian @ 15,274207
18 Belarusian_Polesye @ 15,282905
19 Russian_Voronezh @ 15,435219
20 Russian_Oryol @ 15,558071
224 iterations.

2) Gaussian method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_north @ 2,720424
2 PL_Kashubians @ 3,108343
3 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 3,411766
4 PL_Mazovia @ 3,456267
5 PL_Wielkopolska @ 3,624649
6 PL_average @ 3,769046
7 PL_SW_Malopolska @ 3,84657
8 Czechs_Moravians @ 3,92787
9 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 3,962726
10 PL_South_Poland @ 4,017371
11 Ukrainian_West @ 4,101312
12 Belarusian_Polesye @ 4,202611
13 Russian_Smolensk @ 4,381332
14 Slovak @ 4,637832
15 PL_Podlasie_East_Mazovia @ 4,666336
16 Ukrainian_East @ 4,752006
17 Austria @ 4,765226
18 Sweden @ 4,77791
19 Belarusian_East @ 4,778994
20 Sweden_north @ 4,805929
224 iterations.

My Eurogenes K36 Oracle results (23andMe format):

1) Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_Wielkopolska @ 5,803656
2 PL_SW_Malopolska @ 6,272252
3 PL_average @ 7,687345
4 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 7,962513
5 PL_Mazovia @ 8,132656
6 PL_north @ 8,16761
7 PL_South_Poland @ 8,199323
8 PL_Kashubians @ 8,469839
9 Slovak @ 9,03938
10 Ukrainian_West @ 9,091402
11 Russian_Don_Cossack @ 9,939195
12 Belarusian_Polesye @ 10,000189
13 Czechs_Moravians @ 10,015559
14 Russian_Oryol @ 10,109698
15 Russian_Voronezh @ 10,271533
16 Ukrainian_East @ 10,515674
17 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 10,587364
18 PL_Podlasie_East_Mazovia @ 10,612256
19 Russian_Kursk @ 11,061473
20 Belarusian_East @ 11,252288
224 iterations.

2) Gaussian method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_Wielkopolska @ 2,860252
2 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 3,071093
3 PL_Mazovia @ 3,282759
4 PL_SW_Malopolska @ 3,313346
5 PL_average @ 3,382036
6 PL_South_Poland @ 3,559604
7 PL_north @ 3,693244
8 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 3,853811
9 PL_Kashubians @ 3,859046
10 Czechs_Moravians @ 3,870192
11 Belarusian_Polesye @ 3,870832
12 Belarusian_East @ 4,004563
13 Russian_Smolensk @ 4,007749
14 Slovak @ 4,157081
15 Russian_Kursk @ 4,163922
16 Ukrainian_East @ 4,281441
17 Russian_Voronezh @ 4,385035
18 Russian_Oryol @ 4,388567
19 Russian_Bryansk @ 4,477297
20 Slovenian @ 4,633957
224 iterations.

My Eurogenes K36 Oracle results (FTDNA format):

1) Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_Wielkopolska @ 5,887738
2 PL_SW_Malopolska @ 6,329235
3 PL_average @ 7,749279
4 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 8,048753
5 PL_Mazovia @ 8,190306
6 PL_north @ 8,255324
7 PL_South_Poland @ 8,287037
8 PL_Kashubians @ 8,555187
9 Slovak @ 9,142783
10 Ukrainian_West @ 9,217123
11 Russian_Don_Cossack @ 10,036245
12 Belarusian_Polesye @ 10,047153
13 Czechs_Moravians @ 10,13613
14 Russian_Oryol @ 10,167829
15 Russian_Voronezh @ 10,312009
16 Ukrainian_East @ 10,54968
17 PL_Podlasie_East_Mazovia @ 10,644077
18 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 10,658319
19 Russian_Kursk @ 11,102554
20 Belarusian_East @ 11,297743
224 iterations.

2) Gaussian method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 PL_Wielkopolska @ 2,87988
2 PL_Upper_Silesia @ 3,097246
3 PL_Mazovia @ 3,310414
4 PL_SW_Malopolska @ 3,339396
5 PL_average @ 3,415456
6 PL_South_Poland @ 3,584108
7 PL_north @ 3,721655
8 PL_SE_Carpathia @ 3,855068
9 Belarusian_Polesye @ 3,887001
10 Czechs_Moravians @ 3,893463
11 PL_Kashubians @ 3,901169
12 Russian_Smolensk @ 4,043849
13 Belarusian_East @ 4,046699
14 Slovak @ 4,167403
15 Russian_Kursk @ 4,249977
16 Ukrainian_East @ 4,345288
17 Russian_Voronezh @ 4,420914
18 Russian_Oryol @ 4,485589
19 Russian_Bryansk @ 4,573208
20 Slovenian @ 4,642241
224 iterations.

[Bobby Martnen]

So Eastern (pre-war) Germans were really a mix of German, Slavic, and Baltic. Interesting

[Bobby Martnen]

Among non slavs, All Germans are the most Slavic mixed people after Hungarians and balts or Estonians

Even in western Germany there were Slavic populations due to trades

Pennsylvania Dutch have essentially no Slavic, which makes sense, as they left Western Germany before the large Slavic migration into Western Germany. The problem with using them as a reference population for ancestral West Germans is that they've mixed some with English and Scottish people in America.