Ancient Egyptian Mummy Genomes

[Kamal900]

The results will be posted soon, and it looks like the ancient Egyptians were racially and genetically near easterners(west asiatics/middle easterners)..And yes, the ancient Egyptians were not Europeans, North Africans and espicially not Blacks, and the modern day Egyptians are pretty much descended from their ancient ancestors with more SSA admixture:


Krause, Johannes (Max Planck Institute—SHH), Verena Schuenemann (Institute for Archaeological Sciences, University of Tübingen), Alexander Peltzer (Department for Archaeogenetics, Max Planck Inst), Wolfgang Haak (Department for Archaeogenetics, Max Planck Inst) and Stephan Schiffels (Department for Archaeogenetics, Max Planck Inst)

Egypt, located on the isthmus of Africa, is an ideal region to study historical population dynamics due to its geographic location and documented interactions with ancient civilizations in Africa, Asia, and Europe. Particularly, in the first millennium BCE Egypt endured foreign domination leading to growing numbers of foreigners living within its borders possibly contributing genetically to the local population. Here we mtDNA and nuclear DNA from mummified humans recovered from Middle Egypt that span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the Third Intermediate to the Roman Period. Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more Near Eastern ancestry than present-day Egyptians, who received additional Sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
http://sarkoboros.net/2017/03/ancient-human-dna-and-proteomes-at-saa-2017/

[RN97]

lulz

[Sikeliot]

My guess is they will be like the Natufian sample, but with more West Med affinity.

I wonder if they'll have any closeness to Sicilians/Maltese. The Sicanians were said to build pyramid-like structures, especially on Malta.

[Hadouken]

My guess is they will be like the Natufian sample, but with more West Med affinity.

I wonder if they'll have any closeness to Sicilians/Maltese. The Sicanians were said to build pyramid-like structures, especially on Malta.

I wonder if they will be reconstructed in a nightclub

[Sikeliot]

I wonder if they will be reconstructed in a nightclub

I do think they will show affinity to Sicilians and Maltese. They'll probably be like Natufians, but with a strong West Med component.

[Egyptian]

Nothing new , before and after , Egyptians are the same.

[Cristiano viejo]

The results will be posted soon, and it looks like the ancient Egyptians were racially and genetically near easterners(west asiatics/middle easterners)..And yes, the ancient Egyptians were not Europeans, North Africans and espicially not Blacks, and the modern day Egyptians are pretty much descended from their ancient ancestors with more SSA admixture:

Ie modern Egyptians have nothing to do with ancient Egyptians :noidea:
It makes sense. Ancient Egyptians build here and there, modern Egyptians destroy here and there.

[Egyptian]

Ie modern Egyptians have nothing to do with ancient Egyptians :noidea:
It makes sense. Ancient Egyptians build here and there, modern Egyptians destroy here and there.

same as spaniards has nothing to do with spain , they are grandsons of Moroccans.

[Cristiano viejo]

same as spaniards has nothing to do with spain , they are grandsons of Moroccans.

Moroccans never would have achieved what Spaniards did :cool:
Try better, nigga.

[Egyptian]

Moroccans never would have achieved what Spaniards did :cool:
Try better, nigga.

1-i'm not a nigger but all niggers are my brothers because i'm a human not an animal like you.
2-read more about Moroccans and Andalus.

[Cristiano viejo]

1-i'm not a nigger but all niggers are my brothers because i'm a human not an animal like you.
Damn, it seems that everyone can call himself human nowadays... :rolleyes:


2-read more about Moroccans and Andalus.
I have done. Many wars against your weak cousins to do :)
And for sure more than you. You understand about camels and destruction, you are a modern Egyptian.

[CocoaBANANA]

Who were those mummies?

[Kamal900]

Who were those mummies?

Ancient Egyptians of course. The genetic study is going to be released in 2 weeks. Can't wait. The people who cluster the ancient Natufians and the early Semitic speakers of Jordan today are the Egyptians and Arabians:

Using Global 10...

Jordan_EBA:I1705

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Assyrian Tunisian
0.01688859 0.02702003 0.04230395 0.05042037
Algerian Moroccan Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05977330 0.06250903 0.06827656 0.06843083


Jordan_EBA:I1706

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Assyrian Tunisian
0.01121590 0.02529517 0.04461211 0.04794086
Algerian Moroccan Ethiopian_Tigray Ethiopian_Amhara
0.05747952 0.05955161 0.06446322 0.06449131


Jordan_EBA:I1730

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Assyrian Tunisian
0.01660947 0.02594147 0.04452045 0.04673384
Algerian Moroccan Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05612227 0.05860530 0.06685817 0.06699568

Levant_Neolithic:I0867

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Tunisian Moroccan
0.03566195 0.04554086 0.04641960 0.05063521
Algerian Saharawi Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05151626 0.05912316 0.07079567 0.07148614


Levant_Neolithic:I1699

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Tunisian Moroccan
0.03387947 0.04357623 0.04656148 0.05174627
Algerian Saharawi Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05200293 0.06092333 0.07082936 0.07146232


Levant_Neolithic:I1704

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Tunisian Moroccan
0.03183015 0.03921102 0.03989456 0.04466378
Algerian Saharawi Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.04533574 0.05414230 0.06520587 0.06581918

[Isleño]

The results will be posted soon, and it looks like the ancient Egyptians were racially and genetically near easterners(west asiatics/middle easterners)..And yes, the ancient Egyptians were not Europeans, North Africans and espicially not Blacks, and the modern day Egyptians are pretty much descended from their ancient ancestors with more SSA admixture:
I always supposed Ancient Egyptians to be a mixed people similar to today, a people at the cross roads of three populations and a mix of them: North African (Libyan), Levantine and East African.

[Isleño]

Ancient Egyptians of course. The genetic study is going to be released in 2 weeks. Can't wait. The people who cluster the ancient Natufians and the early Semitic speakers of Jordan today are the Egyptians and Arabians:

Using Global 10...

Jordan_EBA:I1705

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Assyrian Tunisian
0.01688859 0.02702003 0.04230395 0.05042037
Algerian Moroccan Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05977330 0.06250903 0.06827656 0.06843083


Jordan_EBA:I1706

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Assyrian Tunisian
0.01121590 0.02529517 0.04461211 0.04794086
Algerian Moroccan Ethiopian_Tigray Ethiopian_Amhara
0.05747952 0.05955161 0.06446322 0.06449131


Jordan_EBA:I1730

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Assyrian Tunisian
0.01660947 0.02594147 0.04452045 0.04673384
Algerian Moroccan Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05612227 0.05860530 0.06685817 0.06699568

Levant_Neolithic:I0867

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Tunisian Moroccan
0.03566195 0.04554086 0.04641960 0.05063521
Algerian Saharawi Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05151626 0.05912316 0.07079567 0.07148614


Levant_Neolithic:I1699

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Tunisian Moroccan
0.03387947 0.04357623 0.04656148 0.05174627
Algerian Saharawi Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.05200293 0.06092333 0.07082936 0.07146232


Levant_Neolithic:I1704

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
Saudi Egyptian Tunisian Moroccan
0.03183015 0.03921102 0.03989456 0.04466378
Algerian Saharawi Ethiopian_Amhara Ethiopian_Tigray
0.04533574 0.05414230 0.06520587 0.06581918Please, as soon as it is out, post it in a thread for discussion.

[Enflamme]

True Ancient Egyptians = Sardinians.

[RN97]

True Ancient Egyptians = Sardinians.

THANK

[Demhat]

Ie modern Egyptians have nothing to do with ancient Egyptians :noidea:
It makes sense. Ancient Egyptians build here and there, modern Egyptians destroy here and there.

Modern Egypt is best modeled as ~92% ancient Egypt + 8% SSA Admixture. Thats a 92% continuiity. How many examples of countries/or people can you give me who show 92% continuity over a timespan of 5-4000 years from their ancient ancestors.

[Governor]

How close are Egytians to Levantine people?

[Demhat]

How close are Egytians to Levantine people?

It was clear from modern samples already that ancient Egypt would show close relationship to South Levant I have been arguing for this for years for several reason.

1. from all North Africans Egyptians look the most Near Eastern. In fact they look like the only thing they share closer to other North African in contrast to Near Easterners is their higher SSA admixture and their high level of E1b1b, which however have been identified as the main lineage of Natufians too (South Levantine) therefore we can conclude that all North Africans have their origin from the region of SOuth_Levant to Northeast Africa.

2. The higher share with Near Easterners in comparison to other North Africans (Berbers) is also indicated by the Egyptian language. The ancient Egyptian languages closest cousin is not Berber or Cushitic as some would expect but within the Afro_Asiatic family the closest cousin is Semitic. Which points for a late seperation of Proto Egypto-Semitic languages in comparison to the other branches of Afro-Asiatic.

3. Ancient Egyptian material culture has been very early identified as influenced or derived from the Levant.

4. After Bronze Age we see in all of the modern Levant and Arabia an increase of SSA admixture in comparison to Irano_Mesopotamian or Anatolian admixture. Which indicated the same could have happened in Egypt.

5. As written above. Egyptians are for most like Levantine people with an additional SSA admixture. That admixture being the main factor why they further away on a pca from modern South_Levantines and Arabians, since it is a non West Eurasian component and therefore the most diverging. We know modern South_Levantines have like 5-8% SSA. while modern Egyptians have like 14%.

I don't expect that all of ancient Egypt was a 100% homgenous bunch. But expect that there was and more mummies might show, just like everywhere a little fluent variation of SSA vs West Eurasian admixture. From North/Middle Egypt to South Egypt SSA admixture ranging from 0-15%. While today SSA admixture in modern Egyptians range from ~8-19%.

I know there was a Nubian dominance over Egypt and Nubian pharaos but as the name indicates. NUBIAN pharaos are Nubians and not Egyptians, even if they ruled over Egypt for a period of time. Just like Hyksos would not be Egyptians.

And for those coming with "possibilities" or assumptions that we are dealing here with Hyksos, no chance. We are dealing here with mummies from a timespan of over 1500 years. if mummies from such a huge timespan show the same ancestral background it is VERY VERY unlikely that you are dealing with invaders or strangers. Especially since they are mummified in local fashion.

[Kamal900]

It was clear from modern samples already that ancient Egypt would show close relationship to South Levant I have been arguing for this for years for several reason.

1. from all North Africans Egyptians look the most Near Eastern. In fact they look like the only thing they share closer to other North African in contrast to Near Easterners is their higher SSA admixture and their high level of E1b1b, which however have been identified as the main lineage of Natufians too (South Levantine) therefore we can conclude that all North Africans have their origin from the region of SOuth_Levant to Northeast Africa.

2. The higher share with Near Easterners in comparison to other North Africans (Berbers) is also indicated by the Egyptian language. The ancient Egyptian languages closest cousin is not Berber or Cushitic as some would expect but within the Afro_Asiatic family the closest cousin is Semitic. Which points for a late seperation of Proto Egypto-Semitic languages in comparison to the other branches of Afro-Asiatic.

3. Ancient Egyptian material culture has been very early identified as influenced or derived from the Levant.

4. After Bronze Age we see in all of the modern Levant and Arabia an increase of SSA admixture in comparison to Irano_Mesopotamian or Anatolian admixture. Which indicated the same could have happened in Egypt.

5. As written above. Egyptians are for most like Levantine people with an additional SSA admixture. That admixture being the main factor why they further away on a pca from modern South_Levantines and Arabians, since it is a non West Eurasian component and therefore the most diverging. We know modern South_Levantines have like 5-8% SSA. while modern Egyptians have like 14%.

I don't expect that all of ancient Egypt was a 100% homgenous bunch. But expect that there was and more mummies might show, just like everywhere a little fluent variation of SSA vs West Eurasian admixture. From North/Middle Egypt to South Egypt SSA admixture ranging from 0-15%. While today SSA admixture in modern Egyptians range from ~8-19%.

I know there was a Nubian dominance over Egypt and Nubian pharaos but as the name indicates. NUBIAN pharaos are Nubians and not Egyptians, even if they ruled over Egypt for a period of time. Just like Hyksos would not be Egyptians.

And for those coming with "possibilities" or assumptions that we are dealing here with Hyksos, no chance. We are dealing here with mummies from a timespan of over 1500 years. if mummies from such a huge timespan show the same ancestral background it is VERY VERY unlikely that you are dealing with invaders or strangers. Especially since they are mummified in local fashion.

Pretty much this, thank you.

[jackrussell]

West Asiatic and Middle Eastener , eh ?

:D

Like Turks ?

[Kamal900]

West Asiatic and Middle Eastener , eh ?

:D

Like Turks ?

Turks are nothing really. Egyptians are genetically largely of near eastern descent.

[jackrussell]

Turks are nothing really. Egyptians are genetically largely of near eastern descent.


Turks also can come as Asiatic Middle Eastern people and Turks have ruled over Egypt .

[Isleño]

Turks also can come as Asiatic Middle Eastern people and Turks have ruled over Egypt .

Actually it looks like about 25%-30% of the DNA of the Ancient Egyptians from Abusir El Meleq, is Anatolian, but I think that it came to them via southern Levantines rather than actual Anatolians (Turks).

[Kamal900]

Actually it looks like about 25%-30% of the DNA of the Ancient Egyptians from Abusir El Meleq, is Anatolian, but I think that it came to them via southern Levantines rather than actual Anatolians (Turks).

This. Yes, the ancient Egyptians were a North African/Middle Eastern people who genetically cluster with us Palestinians, Jordanians, Arabians and the modern Egyptians.

[Isleño]

This. Yes, the ancient Egyptians were a North African/Middle Eastern people who genetically cluster with us Palestinians, Jordanians, Arabians and the modern Egyptians.

Actually I checked the supplemental data of the Shuenemann et al. 2017 study and the three mummies that were genome-wide tested that clustered near Bedouins and Southern Levantines, but not far from modern Egyptians had the following mtDNA:

Jk2911 had M1a1
Jk 2134 had J1d
Jk 2888 had U6a2

M1a1 is found mainly in North Africa and East Africa
U6a2 is North African
And J1d is Arabian

M1a1 and U6a2 are both the result of the Eurasian back migration back into Africa 12,000-20,000 years ago. This suggests that the Ancient Egyptians may have not been solely of Levantine descent, but possibly admixed with North African. However, they cluster near modern Bedouins and Southern Levantines, but not far from modern Egyptians. This correlates with the suggestion that Ancient Egyptians are like modern ones, less 8% SSA as the study suggests.

https://images.nature.com/full/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/extref/ncomms15694-s1.xlsx

[Isleño]

This. Yes, the ancient Egyptians were a North African/Middle Eastern people who genetically cluster with us Palestinians, Jordanians, Arabians and the modern Egyptians.
Upon further analysis, I doubt the M1a1 haplogroup of one of the genome-wide mummies came from East Africans because 60% of East African mtDNA is haplogroup L and only one mummy out of the 90 tested had L haplogroup (L3), so the significant lack of haplogroup L among the 90 mummies suggests that the M1a1 of one of the genome-wide mummies is of North African West Eurasian back migration into North Africa, rather than directly from an East African. This suggests an indigenous North African component dating back to the Mesolithic found in this mummy labeled JK 2911. However, as we know having a haplogroup does not mean autosomally you are significant of this ancestry, it is proof of a genetic link to North Africa and Egypt as far back as the Mesolithic.

[JQP4545]

The oldest sample in this study is dated to more than 2,000 years after the beginning of ancient Egyptian civilization so the results may not reflect the genetic makeup of the founders of civilization. The Y-Chromosomes of North Africans look like they mostly originated in the horn of Africa, but the mtDNA is much more Eurasian. Perhaps Egyptian civilization began with a conquest much like the Spanish conquest of South and Central America where male invaders miscegenated with local women. I think the linguistics suggest an East African origin for the ancient Egyptians.

[Smeagol]

The oldest sample in this study is dated to more than 2,000 years after the beginning of ancient Egyptian civilization so the results may not reflect the genetic makeup of the founders of civilization. The Y-Chromosomes of North Africans look like they mostly originated in the horn of Africa, but the mtDNA is much more Eurasian. Perhaps Egyptian civilization began with a conquest much like the Spanish conquest of South and Central America where male invaders miscegenated with local women. I think the linguistics suggest an East African origin for the ancient Egyptians.

Neither linguistics or genetics suggests an east african origin for the Egyptians or other North africans. Haplogroup E and afro-asiatic languages both come from the Middle east.

[JQP4545]

Neither linguistics or genetics suggests an east african origin for the Egyptians or other North africans. Haplogroup E and afro-asiatic languages both come from the Middle east.

What is the evidence that haplogroup E comes from the Middle East? I find this hard to believe.

[JQP4545]

Map of Afro-Asiatic languages:
http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Afromap_files/Afro-asiatic%20languages%20large%20map.jpg

Haplogroup E maps:
http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/images/Y-DNA-E-M78.jpg

https://cdn-ak.f.st-hatena.com/images/fotolife/d/disa-japan/20161114/20161114141519.jpg

What makes more sense, that haplogroup E was spread from the middle east to the entire African continent or that it originated in Africa a spread to the middle east and north africa?

[JQP4545]

This is how the ancient Egyptians depicted themselves:
http://africanholocaust.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/egyptian_race_ethnic-2-300x167.jpg

Does the last guy look like the third man (Asiatic/Syrian)? IMO they look more like Ethiopians with brownish skin, Caucasian nose, but otherwise African features.
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/49777000/jpg/_49777691_afp_ethiopia.jpg
http://cdn.snappages.com/sfvx9m/assets/47116_1117074_1309326891.jpg

The Nubians look more like Sudanese people.

[Smeagol]

What is the evidence that haplogroup E comes from the Middle East? I find this hard to believe.


It remained mysterious that how many times the anatomically modern human migrated out of Africa, since that among the three superhaplogrous C, DE and F, Haplogroup F distributes in whole Eurasia, C in Asia and Austronesia, D exclusively in Asia, while D's brother clade E distribute mainly in Africa, so there are two hypotheses, 1) haplogroups D and CF migrated out of Africa separately; 2) the single common ancestor of CF and DE migrated out of Africa followed by a back-migration of E to Africa. From this study, the short interval between CF/DE and C/F divergences weakens the possibility of multiple independent migrations (CF, D, and DE*) out of Africa, and thus supports the latter hypothesis (Fig. S2 a).
https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.3897

also, haplogroup E is present in populations without any african ancestry.

[Hadouken]

I have an egyptian mummy gedmatch kit number (no joke) . if that kit number is indeed legit is another question but it seems so

I thought about opening a thread about it posting several gedmatch results