The legal age of consent;

[Skandi]

What do you think about the age of sexual consent? should there be one, do you think it is too high or too low in your country?

Sorry it's the same for males and females, because your friendly thread starter is a feminist (as far as it goes) :eek:


Age of consent in Europe;
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/europe-age-of-consent.jpg
(Stolen from Beornwulfwer's thread)

[Ulf]

If they're the same age, or about year apart I say 15. If it's sex with someone who's considered an adult and one who isn't, I think the age of consent should be 17 or 18. I would say so long as their ages are not too dissimilar, when underage, it shouldn't matter too much. Although something like a 17 y/o with a 14 might be pushing it...

I don't know what it is here, I'm assuming it varies by state. I started when I was 15. My mom had a fit. :p

[Æmeric]

I would say 18, except in case were a minor is legally emancipated, for example through marriage or by joining the military. Parents need some control over their kids & 18 is the age at which a person becomes a legal adult in the US. Much of the current chaos in society is from the sexualization of minors. Persons 12 to 18 may have the physical ability to be sexuality active but lack the emotional & mental maturity.

As for legal prosecution, That should be restricted to persons more then 3-years older then the minor.

I get the impression from the map that Spain must be a pedophiles paradise. Even the perverts in California - The North American Man/Boy Love Association (http://www.nambla.org/) - who are on friendly terms with the left-winged politicos in that state, have not managed to get the age of consent in California dropped from 18.

Here is a map of the world showing Age of Concent laws:


http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=570&d=1233681346

[Skandi]

Much of the current chaos in society is from the sexualization of minors. Persons 12 to 18 may have the physical ability to be sexuality active but lack the emotional & mental maturity


While I don't really disagree with you here, but I question the rationality of setting the age to 18, here in Britain we have one of the highest ages in Europe but also the highest rate of teen pregnancy. The two appear to have no affect upon each other. Equally I don't see that under 18's lack the maturity required, IF educated properly from birth. Here we will soon have a stupid system, you can get married and have kids at 16 but won't be able to leave school till 18.

[Ulf]

Not everyone who's underage is mentally immature. I first had sex at 15 but I've been monogamous since. Laws and parents wouldn't have stopped us. If the age of consent is raised would I have not been able to buy condoms at 15?


Parents need some control over their kids

I agree, but using consent laws is the wrong way of going about it.


Persons 12 to 18 may have the physical ability to be sexuality active but lack the emotional & mental maturity.

In some cases that age range can be 12-80. ;)

[Psychonaut]

I like the way my home state, Florida, does it. The age of consent there is 16, but if the person is under 18 there can be no more than a five year age gap. So, a 16 year old and a 21 year old is OK, but a 16 year old and a 30 year old is not. This kind of legislation gets rid of those stupid statutory "rape" cases where a high school girl's parents decide to press charges on her high school boyfriend and screw up the rest of his life.

[Pino]

age of consent is more of a way to stop pedophilles, not a law to stop people having sex, has anybody ever heard of two 14 year olds being arrested because they had sex with each other? It's more of a way to stop 40 year old Men from preying on 13 year old Girls.

I see an actual age of consent worthless, I think it should be taught among society that sex before marriage is wrong and social exclusion and the label of slut is thrust upon those who do otherwise (although alot of us including myself are gulity of doing this!.) How to stop pedophilles? Just use common sense, if a 55 year old Men has had sex with a 15 year old Girl then the local community should get together to round to his house and lynch him.

[Beorn]

has anybody ever heard of two 14 year olds being arrested because they had sex with each other?

I have. A few times to be correct. I can't find the articles as I only seem to bring up cases of paedophilia and the sort, but the two 14-year olds were found out to be sexually active by the parents of the girl and the authorities were notified, the boy was charged for having underage sex, and placed on the sex offenders list for an amount of time.

Which is absurd, of course. You are very correct in saying the law is there to help prevent the legality of paedophiles building relationships with minors.

In my eyes the choice is up to the individual.
Echoing Ulf's point, the ages should not differ greater than two, maybe three years above, and obviously both members consenting.

[Æmeric]

Just wait until your daughter is 14, you may not think using age of consent laws to keep teens from having sex are absurd.

Age of consent laws aside, it might be nice if society wouldn't try to make it easy for underage persons to have sex. Girls below the age of consent can get abortions without paretal consent (:confused:) & condoms are fairly easy to get. Birth control pills or IUDs in some state also, depending on medical confidentiality laws. Not to mention all the sex in media.

[Beorn]

Just wait until your daughter is 14, you may not think using age of consent laws to keep teens from having sex are absurd.

It's going to be a tough one to face, but hopefully I will have instilled some semblance of intelligence within her regarding sex and the consequences.

I'm not really one to shy away from issues like this. The only issue I have is with whom she has sexual relations with, as this can be the breaking off point concerning family ties with me.

[Jägerstaffel]

I'd say 16, though most 16 year olds I've ever met are so overcome with hormones ( I was at that age ) that they can hardly make a good choice about their sexuality. But isn't it true that uncontrollable hormones and puppy love make for the most intense of romance? I mean who didn't have a girl they would have KILLED for when they were 16?

Pet peeve of mine, being attracted to a teenager does NOT make one a pedophile. It makes one an ephebophile. http://www.reference.com/search?q=Ephebophile A pedophile is someone attracted to prepubscent children.

Not that I condone any of the behaviour, I lean more towards what Pino was saying - lynch the bastards for preying on children.

[Vargtand]

Sexual maturity anything else is pedophilia.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Hard to say, a 'one size fits all' law is difficult to find for this situation. Perhaps the best thing might be to set a high age like 21, since people mature much later today than in the past, but only allow charges to be brought by a parent if nobody is involved over a much lower age, like 14. That way it would in effect be left up to the family except in extreme cases. In general, give state sanction & support to parental and family decisions. I believe this is currently done in Islamic societies, and it works much better than the current western system.

[Brynhild]

Just wait until your daughter is 14, you may not think using age of consent laws to keep teens from having sex are absurd.

Agreed. Although in the case my 14 year old daughter, she will be the one who cheerfully puts on her own chastity belt! :eek::D

I voted for around 16, as long as the couples in question are close in age, no more than 5 years apart.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I don't see why age gap should be such a big deal. If the goal is presumably to prevent young, immature females from being taken advantage of by males, then this can just as easily happen with males of the same or similar age. At that age, even a year older can be a huge difference in perceived status, for example between those in their 1st year of high school vs older students, or any number of other status differences which seem inconsequential to us but are huge to children of that age. If anything, older males would tend to be more responsible and stable partners. There are of course exceptions, for example the 18 year old partner of Sarah Palin's pregnant 17 year old daughter, but in general older males are more responsible and stable and thus less dangerous likely to 'take advantage of' younger females (which seem to be the whole point of these laws).

This is why I think the whole thing should primarily be left up to families/parents. If Sarah Palin thinks it's ok for her daughter to get pregnant by this guy at age 16/17, then so be it. If another parent wants a 35 year old hauled off for seducing their 18 year old daughter, so be it.

[Baron Samedi]

I would say 16 is a good age.

I had some issues with this in college wanting to date a 17 year old when I was about to turn 20.....

[Pino]

I would say 16 is a good age.

I had some issues with this in college wanting to date a 17 year old when I was about to turn 20.....

a 19 and 17 year old, nothing wrong with that in the slightest.

a 16 year old girl in school and a 17 year old in College is two completely different situations if you ask me.

Maybe in the USA because 17 year olds are still in school they are seen as more young I dont know. But by 17 a female as just about fully developed physically and mentally although it does differ from person to person.

I agree these 15 year old Girls and Men who want them I think are definately doing wrong but I think they are in a bracket above those who prey on 3 year olds!

[coldielox]

i am a mother of 5 kids all 5 and under.. you should HEAR the comments i get.. and only a few are ever good.. anyways my point is.. we have changed soooooooo much over the last 100 years, its kinda sad, a 100 years ago.. me only havin 5 kids would be a matter of surviving in my household.. i mean plenty of ppl had anywhere from 8 to 17 children.. and to the point even more.. we married WAY younger, to fall in love at 15 now, your considered over reacting... but back in the day you would be married and possibly prego by age 15...

[SPQR]

I think the legal age of consent should be 18

[Solwyn]

I have no idea what the legal age should be, suffice it to say I shared a labour room with a 13 year old who was in to have her second while I was puffing through my first at the age of 22.

I'd like to see more parents take responsibility for their kids, regardless of what the age of consent is. There was a time when no child would think of being cheeky with their folks and now I routinely see children younger than my son telling mum and dad to fuck off in the mall. I understand that the response from many is that they're afraid to have their kids taken away if they try to exert control over them, but I think that groups like CFS only have power over you if you believe they do and let them run you.

Thankfully, I don't suffer from an acute case of political correctness and I run my household the way I see fit. My son is no angel by any stretch of the imagination, but I wasn't either at his age. We talk openly about sex, drugs, alcohol, smoking, and going along with the crowd because at 14, he is basically a nosy erection in runners.

What frightens me the most is the huge amount of girls at his school who will openly discuss how they intended to get pregnant, because babies are such a cool thing to have. :eek:

I know this seems very anti-feminist of me and it's not my intent to be so, but I really think the government should stop subsidizing teenaged parents to the extent that they do. I used to feel very differently, having started out as a single parent, but since moving to Manitoba, my eyes have been opened very wide. This province is run by a socialist provincial party and is pretty much a welfare state. A lot of these girls that we know have purposely tried to have babies at 14, 15, and 16 for the cheques because they know that even if their parents don't approve, Nanny State will provide for everything.

[Sigurd]

Sorry it's the same for males and females, because your friendly thread starter is a feminist (as far as it goes) :eek:

To be quite honest, I believe it would have been better if you'd have allowed multiple choice and prompted people to cast one vote for males and one for females --- because in reality, some laws in existence in some European countries have different ages for males and females.


Age of consent in Europe;

Not quite correct, though I understand that it is hard to put special provisions on a map.

First thing I fuss with though is that the UK is seen as a legal whole here - Scots Law and English Law are quite distinct and different, and the laws governing legal consent are no different --- whether that be related to heterosexual or homosexual consent, and the same even goes for definition and scope of sexual crimes.

Either way, the three corrections to the map that I know of:

Scotland --- unlike England, where the age of consent is 16 across the board: In Scotland it is 14 for males and 16 for females. It used to be the same age for both, but some legal theorist must have felt that young females needed more protection from the Law than young males. It does however create the absurd hypothetical case of the 14 yr old boy sleeping with his 15 yr old girlfriend (though in reality, such cases are never charged).

Germany --- The age of consent is 14 if both (or all for the "gang-bangers" :D) of the participants are under 18. If one of the participants is over 18, then the age of consent is 16. I.E. it would be legal for a 17yr old and a 14 yr old to sleep together, but not for a 18 yr old and a 15 yr old.

Austria --- The general rule is 14 - however, this is only true when both are under 21. If one is over 21, then the age of consent becomes 16 if the sexual relationship is judged to be exploitative of the younger participant's young age.

My own opinion I shall offer in a post of its own --- I wish to keep the factual and the opinion matters separate. ;)

[Sigurd]

Personally, I would set the legal age to around 16 to 18, and might even consider handling men and women different should a general pattern in their growing up be discernible. However, then again, if you do, what points will set the reasons for the difference:

For one you have women physically and emotionally maturing on average about two years earlier than men do, so there would be a good case granting the ability to give consent as a mature person to them at an earlier age. Making the age of consent higher for girls than boys allows for a greater legal protection of a potentially exploited female.

On the other hand, however, you have the case that such would render young girls unprotected from the claws of those who might seek harm in a way. It may sound sexist, but some girls at a younger age often have a fancy for men substantially older than themselves: A few years ago, you had that 16 year old girl in England disappearing with that 57-year old...and in my circle of friends, one lost her virginity age 14 to a man who was 22 at the time. For the one side, it is looking for a person who are at an emotionally similar level, for the other side it may be exploitation of a young person's naivity.

In Scotland, at the moment, the legal age for sexual consent is 14 for men and 16 for women; in Germany it is 14 if both are under 18 and 16 if one of them is over 18. Of course, both create discrepancies, but they certainly have their merits...even though I consider both rather young.

Which brings us back to the fact that you'd have to set it somewhere between 16 and 18: This is the age that society considers young people to be mature enough to buy alcohol and tobacoo, this is the age that society considers young people to be mature enough to vote, this is the age that society considers young people to be mature enough to enter into legally binding contracts, this is the age that society considers young people to be mature enough to drive a vehicle, etc. etc. - so it would only make sense that you make the legal age for sexual consent one where society considers young people to be mature enough to mean their word when they give it rather than being naive enough to enter into something whose consequences they might not be able to foresee fully.

But, yes, a legal age limit for consent, will never stop people having intercourse at an earlier age. It will just as much stop them doing that as raising the smoking age to 18 will stop young kids smoking.

However, it is a means for protecting the young, as whilst some may be mature enough to foresee consequences etc. etc. others may not be, and it is up to us as the general public to protect them from exploitation by those who may not be well-wishing.

The important thing about an age limit is thus the protection of the young from sex fiends. It won't stop boys becoming fathers at 13 ... but it will have a remedy against the 55-year-old perverts which hang around in chatrooms, preying on young girls. And there's more of those than you'd like to think. :rolleyes2:

So, make it 16, 17, or 18, IMO. That's when things should be reasonably safe. And perhaps add a clause, that up to let's say 18 or 19, the other person should be no more than 5 years older than them.

[Atlas]

I voted 15, it seems to be a good age. 13 is too young in my opinion. I wouldn't go under a 15 years old chick. I sometimes am hit on by girl half my age, around 12 ! I'm embarassed, I just tell her I could go to jail for kissing her, they don't seems to care and tell me I'm better than a guy their age, well I guess so but still...

[Tabiti]

There is mistake in the map, here the legal age is 16, not 14, although most girls have their sexual contacts around that age...
For me sexual life should start over 16 for both genders.

[Äike]

The legal age of 16 would be the best. Estonia has the age of 14, but there have been discussions of raising the limit to 15.

[Octothorpe]

Persons 12 to 18 may have the physical ability to be sexuality active but lack the emotional & mental maturity.

If that were the case, sir, most of humanity would not exist. Prior to the 19th century, most folks were raising families, farming, fishing, and living as full members of society well before the age of 18. Under-18ers built the pyramids, marched in armies, gave birth, killed, wrote hymns, cured the ill, and did all that people can do. If they had not, none of us would be alive today.

People ages 12 to 18 are physiologically adult, regardless of what the law or society says. I teach psych--most of the reports of intellectual and emotional immaturity are misreadings by laymen. The changes in the prefrontal cortex after age 18 are the same changes you'll undergo the rest of your life--it's called learning, the laying down of new neural networks. It is not, as some 'educational and teen experts' have said, a new 'stage' in life.

Now, I'm not saying we should gladly let 13ers get married and set up shop. Society has a role in setting legal boundaries. However, we cannot allow our legal dreams to trump biological fact--the people I teach in HS are, whether we like it or not, young adults, not children (try telling that to a brainwashed principal, though!). They must be treated as 'junior' adults who are learning the ropes. Condescending to them doesn't help, it hinders.

[Loki]

Now, I'm not saying we should gladly let 13ers get married and set up shop

Well, the British National Health Service is distributing advice among 13-year olds that frequent sex is healthy for them, and that they should do it at least twice a week. I read it this morning in the Metro, will try to get a link. "An orgasm a day keeps the doctor away", or something like that.

[Kempenzoon]

I do believe it depends on the individual, and that social control is more useful than impersonal government legislation in this case, and then I'd support an age range of 14-16. So now I went for 15.

[Karaten]

I'm pretty indifferent here, considering how pointless the law is, at least in the States. My thought then would simply be that the younger the age of consent is, the younger safe sex is easily accessible.

Of course, the adults with younger children laws are enforced, but it seems that pedophilia is strongest because of the illegal applications, as well as the fact that most victims are under 14, so, I'd say 14 is a fair age. Maybe 15. We certainly can't have 10 year old children having sex with old men for candy bars or the like.

[Angantyr]

The legal age of consent in Canada is 14 years of age, but goes down to 12 if the female is married. Moreover, there is no question of consent if the participants are less than two years apart in age. Accordingly, an 11 year old and a 13 year old can consent, in a fashion.

I am satisfied with Canadian laws. The truth of the matter is we have few problems with sexual consent and statutory rape and tightening the laws would only create problems.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Well, the British National Health Service is distributing advice among 13-year olds that frequent sex is healthy for them, and that they should do it at least twice a week. I read it this morning in the Metro, will try to get a link. "An orgasm a day keeps the doctor away", or something like that.

Here's the link if anyone is interested.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99ED2R80&show_article=1

Britain's National Health Service has a message for teens: Sex can be fun.

Health officials are trying to change the tone of sex education by urging teachers to emphasize that sexual relations can be healthy and pleasurable instead of simply explaining the mechanics of sex and warning about diseases.

The new pamphlet, called "Pleasure," has sparked some opposition from those who believe it encourages promiscuity among teens in a country that already has high rates of teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

The National Health Service in the city of Sheffield produced the booklet, which has a section called "an orgasm a day" that encourages educators to tell teens about the positive physical and emotional effects of sex and masturbation, which is described as an easy way for people to explore their bodies and feel good. Like more traditional sex education guides, it encourages demonstrations about how to use condoms and other contraceptives.

Some professionals have hailed the new approach as a welcome antidote to traditional sex education, which they say can be long on biological facts but short on information about the complexity of human relationships.

The booklet suggests ways in which teachers can encourage sexual awareness and responsibility while teaching young people that sex is something that is meant to be enjoyed.

Steve Slack, who helped produce the leaflet as Director of the Center for HIV & Sexual Health in Sheffield, said one goal is to help young people learn to resist peer pressure and delay having sex until they are emotionally ready.

"Far from promoting teenage sex, it is designed to encourage young people to delay losing their virginity until they are sure they will enjoy the experience," he said.

Slack said some of the ideas in the booklet came from the Netherlands, which is well known in Europe for its liberal attitude toward sexual behavior.

But the pamphlet is condemned by some educators who believe it will lead to more casual sex among teens.

"Some of it is good sense, but I think it's wrong is to suggest that 16-year-olds should wantonly enter into having sexual intercourse for pleasure," said Anthony Seldon, headmaster of Wellington College, a school for teens. "I think this is medically wrong and emotionally wrong and will increase teenage pregnancy and impact negatively on the formation of a long-term loving relationship."

He said teens should be taught about the value of a long-term commitment, not simply about the pleasures of sexual intercourse.

Ruth Smith, news editor of Children & Young People Now magazine, said one goal of the new booklet is to help young people become more comfortable with their sexuality and to let them know they can speak out if they are abused or forced into a situation they don't like.

"Research shows young people feel pressured to have sex before they're ready," she said."This booklet is intended to give them the skills to discuss it. It's not a license to go out and have sex, it's saying if you do, do it, wait until you're ready and enjoy it. It makes them more confident and more able to say no."

She said the instruction guide will not be given to students but is intended to suggest ways in which teachers can start a conversation about sex.

"It's trying to find what works with young people," she said.

[Finsterer Streiter]

The age of 14 seems to be a good border. People stop being children earlier and earlier bowadays. Not that it´s a good development only, but here we must accept the facts. Higher borders of legal age of consent are due to Christianity and their influence during the recent centuries.

[SwordoftheVistula]

People stop being children earlier and earlier bowadays.

The opposite is true I think. The age of maturing into adulthood is in the early 20s now for most people, instead of around 18-20 a generation or so ago, and in the mid to late teens in earlier generations. There's a lot of reasons why this is so, but mainly because the level of development and society and the educational system now requires people to be dependent on their parents and living with them well into their 20s or even older, so they don't get a chance to mature until much later than in previous generations when people, especially males, were often expected to move out when turning 18, or at least after high school if not sooner. Even into the 19th century it was common for people to become apprentices at age 14.

[Æmeric]

People stop being children earlier and earlier nowadays.

If you mean people start puberty earlier, that is true. It doesn't mean they stop being children emotionally & mentally at an earlier age. It also doesn't help that society has become much more sexualized in the last 40-years with even pornagraphy becoming mainstream.

[Phlegethon]

All young girls should be sent off to nunneries so that the young males can focus on what really matters in life. This whole talk about teenage sex bores me to death.

[Svarog]

I think there should not be limit, someone is ready with 14, someone is not with 28

oh yeah, personally could not care less

[jerney]

Just wait until your daughter is 14, you may not think using age of consent laws to keep teens from having sex are absurd.

Age of consent laws aside, it might be nice if society wouldn't try to make it easy for underage persons to have sex. Girls below the age of consent can get abortions without paretal consent (:confused:) & condoms are fairly easy to get. Birth control pills or IUDs in some state also, depending on medical confidentiality laws. Not to mention all the sex in media.

Yeah because it would be a world of fun if 14 year olds were having sex *without* access to any of that. Some people are just not realistic.

If your son or daughter is really being affected by what's going on in the media maybe you haven't instilled strong enough values in them. I watched MTV at 12-13 and even then much of it was sexualized, but never once did it cross my mind to go out and mimic that behavior. It never appealed to me have sex with boys or dress provocatively. Teenagers may be impressionable, but if they're that dumb I blame the parents.

[Phlegethon]

It never appealed to me have sex with boys


So you stuck with girls? Works for me. ;) j/k

[Tabiti]

If your son or daughter is really being affected by what's going on in the media maybe you haven't instilled strong enough values in them. I watched MTV at 12-13 and even then much of it was sexualized, but never once did it cross my mind to go out and mimic that behavior. It never appealed to me have sex with boys or dress provocatively. Teenagers may be impressionable, but if they're that dumb I blame the parents.
Same with me. Despite the fact I was quite well informed about sex (first time I saw porn magazine was in 4th grade, first porn movie in 5th grade) I've never thought about having sex (even bf) before my 17th year. It weren't my parents to stop me, since I've never discusses such topics with them, just my inner feeling, telling me "you are still not ready for that". Funny, but the most sexual active ones on my age, were the worst informed about physiology, venereal diseases, pregnancy. The "most developed" girl in 9th grade once shocked me saying that having period means your body is "getting rid of the dirty blood". And she was probably first to have her period in my class and first to had sex...
Although, I've started my sexual live quite late for nowadays, I don't regret, since I was mature enough to avoid lots of problems and accidents caused by ignorance.

[Phlegethon]

It is a great general rule to basically do the exact opposite of what your peers are doing. That is how I kept it, while my peers have to deal with the smoldering ruins of a broken marriage, debt, and either unemployment or paying alimony.