Immigrants Learning Swedish over Finnish Run into Problems

[The Ripper]

Immigrants Learning Swedish over Finnish Run into Problems
published yesterday 12:27 PM, updated today 01:49 PM

Finland’s integration policy calls for newcomers to learn either of the country’s two official languages, Finnish or Swedish. However many immigrants who have mastered Swedish say they feel shortchanged, as knowledge of the Finnish language is a vital skill in Finnish society.

Sami came to Finland from Pakistan four years ago. Today he studies Swedish at the Swedish Adult Education Centre of Helsinki (Arbis).

”It will also help me if I look for a job in other places, like Sweden or Norway. It’s also so close to German,” he explains.

Minority Ombudsman Eva Biaudet says newcomers learning Swedish have had many good experiences.

“We've had many success stories in terms of integration in Swedish-speaking areas.”

But many immigrants feel they’ve studied Swedish in vain.

Paula Kuusipalo, an official at the Interior Ministry’s migration department, says she has been the target of many angry complaints from refugees and immigrants who were directed to Swedish-language courses in Ostrobothnia.

“Some have been really frustrated—even angry. They didn’t know that Swedish wasn’t enough to get by on,” she says.

Many immigrants moving to the capital region from Ostrobothnia, a region with a Swedish-speaking majority, say they feel cheated. According to them, they were kept in the dark about the fact that Swedish-language skills would not suffice for launching a career in Helsinki—or anywhere else in Finland.

Stressing to immigrants that Finland is a bilingual country may not tell the whole story.

Biaudet says immigrants must be given the opportunity to choose whether they want to study Finnish or Swedish, adding that recent arrivals should be given an accurate picture of Finnish society.

Kuusipalo meanwhile points out that officials in Swedish-speaking areas like to believe that immigrants will settle down in the areas where they first arrive.

Roughly six percent of Finland's population speak Swedish as their native tongue.

YLE


http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/11/immigrants_learning_swedish_over_finnish_run_into_ problems_2114684.html

Now RKP/SFP only needs to tell them that they have the right to demand Swedish language skills from others. Voilà, new voters to replace the dwindling finlandssvenska population. ;)

[Sally]

“Some have been really frustrated—even angry. They didn’t know that Swedish wasn’t enough to get by on,” she says.

In my experience, immigrants are always angry about something in Finland. Attempts to placate them often make things worse, I believe. :coffee:

[Aemma]

Interesting. I suspect we have a similar issue here in Canada especially if people choose to settle in Quebec, the hub of French Canada. While the rest of Canada is for all intents and purposes English-speaking, I'm sure some get a rude awakening when they seek to move about the country and don't really know English at all--I'm thinking those who've immigrated from Haiti, Djibouti and the Ivory Coast as examples.

I'm not quite sure why a person immigrating to Finland would not want to learn Finnish first however. :confused:

[The Ripper]

I'm not quite sure why a person immigrating to Finland would not want to learn Finnish first however. :confused:

If they live in areas where very few actually speak Finnish? Not to mention that I suspect the Swedish Peoples' Party has an interest in "integrating" immigrants as a part of multicultural "Svensk-Finland".

[Aemma]

If they live in areas where very few actually speak Finnish?

But doesn't it still make sense to learn both official languages (to some degree) if you're a newcomer? Why are these people complaining then?

Don't know, maybe it's just me, but were I to live in another country that has more than one official language, I'd like to have at least a working knowledge of the secondary one(s). :shrug:

[The Ripper]

But doesn't it still make sense to learn both official languages (to some degree) if you're a newcomer? Why are these people complaining then?

Well, in the article at least, they seem to be saying that they were mislead to believe that since Finland is officially bilingual, they would be able to get along with Swedish in any part of the country. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the people urging them to learn Swedish instead of Finnish actually do distort the reality of Finnish bilingualism a little.


Don't know, maybe it's just me, but were I to live in another country that has more than one official language, I'd like to have at least a working knowledge of the secondary one(s). :shrug:

I have family in Switzerland. Learning Switzerdütsch is a challenge enough, nevermind French, Italian and Romansh. :D

[Groenewolf]

But doesn't it still make sense to learn both official languages (to some degree) if you're a newcomer? Why are these people complaining then?

Would depend on where you would settle. For the Netherlands it would not make much sense to learn Frisian if you gonna live and work in Holland for example. Same probably goes for Finland.

[Aemma]

Would depend on where you would settle. For the Netherlands it would not make much sense to learn Frisian if you gonna live and work in Holland for example. Same probably goes for Finland.

Yes I understand this. But I'll still contend that immigrants should perhaps learn a bit more about their host countries before making such decisions? :shrug:

Anyway, they were just some thoughts....

[The Ripper]

Yes I understand this. But I'll still contend that immigrants should perhaps learn a bit more about their host countries before making such decisions? :shrug:

Anyway, they were just some thoughts....

Of course I agree with you, and the immigrants seem to be agreeing too: learning Finnish would have been useful. :rolleyes:

[Eldritch]

If they live in areas where very few actually speak Finnish? Not to mention that I suspect the Swedish Peoples' Party has an interest in "integrating" immigrants as a part of multicultural "Svensk-Finland".

The SFP wants Finland to be multicultural, and Svensk-Finland to be unicultural. ;)

I'm sure you remember this classic:


Entinen opetusministeri ja ulkoministeri Pär Stenbäck ehdottaa, että varsinkin venäläisille maahanmuuttajille ryhdyttäisiin opettamaan ensimmäisenä kotouttamiskielenä suomen asemesta ruotsia.

....

Entistä RKP:n puheenjohtajaa askarruttaa ruotsin kielen aseman ja osaajien heikkeneminen Suomessa. Stenbäckin mukaan kasvava maahanmuuttajaväestö voisi olla tulevaisuudessa uusi ruotsinkielinen vähemmistö Suomessa.


In short, the former minister of education and foreign affairs wants Russian immigrants to be taught Swedish, while Somalis and Middle Easterners should be taught Finnish. :D

This proposal is brilliant in no less than three separate ways: it would remove the threat of Russian speakers becoming a larger minority than Swedish-speakers; it would provide a natural way to boost the popularity of the SFP, which has quite understandably been limited to the Swedish-speaking population until now; and it would unload all the ethnically undesirable immigrants on Finns. ;)

[Moonbird]

I think immigrants should show so much interest in their new country that they would learn both official languages, one fluently and so much that they at least have basic knowledge in the other one.

Previously people have been able to cope only on knowledge in Swedish in the Swedish speaking parts of Finland but the situation has changed a lot mainly during the last decade. You can't get by in Finland anymore without knowledge in Finnish.


Well, in the article at least, they seem to be saying that they were mislead to believe that since Finland is officially bilingual, they would be able to get along with Swedish in any part of the country.


Well, that's what you are supposed to do in a country that's officially bilingual but the reality is as we know different.

[The Ripper]

The SFP wants Finland to be multicultural, and Svensk-Finland to be unicultural. ;)

I'm sure you remember this classic:



In short, the former minister of education and foreign affairs wants Russian immigrants to be taught Swedish, while Somalis and Middle Easterners should be taught Finnish. :D

This proposal is brilliant in no less than three separate ways: it would remove the threat of Russian speakers becoming a larger minority than Swedish-speakers; it would provide a natural way to boost the popularity of the SFP, which has quite understandably been limited to the Swedish-speaking population until now; and it would unload all the ethnically undesirable immigrants on Finns. ;)

At least outwardly SFP and the Helsinki-based "hurri-elite" is very multiculti. I remember reading a long article in HBL introducing a finlandssvensk Somali woman. Oh so lovely and multicult, so fascinatingly marginal. :D

[Eldritch]

Classic at Itäkeskus KELA from years ago:

"Mina ole suomeruotsalaine somaali, mina pita palvele ensin".

[The Ripper]

Classic at Itäkeskus KELA from year ago:

"Mina ole suomeruotsalaine somaali, mina pita palvele ensin".

Svenskatalande bättre folk. :D :bowlol:

[Sally]

Classic at Itäkeskus KELA from years ago:

"Mina ole suomeruotsalaine somaali, mina pita palvele ensin".

I'm going to try that line whenever the queue is too long. ;)

[Motörhead Remember Me]

http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/11/immigrants_learning_swedish_over_finnish_run_into_ problems_2114684.html

Now RKP/SFP only needs to tell them that they have the right to demand Swedish language skills from others. Voilà, new voters to replace the dwindling finlandssvenska population. ;)

I almost laughed myself silly at this one.

Fuck that RKP policy of bringing foreigners to Ostrobohnia. They only create a new subclass.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

At least outwardly SFP and the Helsinki-based "hurri-elite" is very multiculti. I remember reading a long article in HBL introducing a finlandssvensk Somali woman. Oh so lovely and multicult, so fascinatingly marginal. :D

That those idiots really think a speaking Swedish Somali is saving the culture of Svenskfinland from the evil Finnish, is black humour.