About new myorigins2.0 results

[oursedur]

Hi all,
I can see dramatic changes with this new version as you can see:

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/395584Sanstitre52.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=395584Sanstitre52.jpg)

Lost my 100% (not a problem as i feel citizen of the world)
But i'm still quite disappointed, especially withe the apparition of the british cluster, and the increase of the southern europe.
I'm french (75% auvergne and 25% bourgogne) , with no "exotic" ancestor known in my family, even from the south of the country.
I know that France is very plurial in term of admixture. This may be more ancient (we have no informations before 1700's).

I have two questions and hope you will help me :)
a) Is the moorish influence is already included in the iberian cluster or if I had any, it would appear as "north africa" in the map ?
b) I always asked myself if i had any autosomal link to my "germanic" haplogroup (R1b-U106)....is the british isles component could explain that, or is it just because i share some DNA with the meds-brittanics (dark irishs etc...)

I apologize for my approximative english, and for any silly question.

Cheers :)

[Enflamme]

Already that FTDNA is not accurate at the base, but this update gives results totally WTF to people!

Example, i quote (http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=41506):

"Mom and dad have 0% Scandinavia. I have 16%.

Hello!

The recent MyOrigins update seems strange.

How is it possible that my two parents, tested on FamilyTreeDNA too, have 0% for Scandinavia when I do have 16% ?

Thanks."



Here, a review of this update:

"
Dear FTDNA,

MyOrigins was recently upgraded to version '2.0'.
And, as anybody can see in this forum, the results are still confusing and controversial.
As a customer I would like to better understand these issues (e.g. low accuracy, poor quality, unplausible assignments...).
These issues are so ubiquitous that with little effort we can compile a list of strange results.


What is exactly different/new in this upgrade?

Where does FTDNA take the reference populations from?

How accurate are the estimates in MyOrigins?

Is there an official FAQ for these questions?

Is there an official announcement of these changes?

As a forum participant, for many months, I realized how frustrating it is for many people to confront their results and I attribute this frustration to the lack of solid and coherent information about MyOrigins.

One of the kits I manage now show the equivalent of asking the opinion of different fortune tellers on the future of American politics. Well, simply non-sense...

Yes, I admit, on one hand I have some fun reading some naive and heavily speculative posts , but on the other hand it is actually very disappointing...

I actualy DOUBT VERY MUCH I will get a straightforward answer from FTDNA here (if I get any answer at all...), but such questions are important and straightforward answers will raise the level of discussion in this forum to unprecedent levels.

Thank you."


Another (http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=41515)


"
I've been researching for over 15 years, though I haven't been able to get very far on some of my German and French and Italian ancestors (mostly back to about 1750 except in Bas-Rhin, France where I can get back to 1600 in most cases) Some of my Bas-Rhin ancestors came from Switzerland after the 30 Years War. I also have some brick walls in Colonial American lines too. 3 of my mother's 4 grandparents were recent French and German immigrants coming from along the western border of France and the eastern border of Germany, none much further east than the city of Ahlen, Germany. Her one grandparent with colonial American origins was mostly British Isles, with a few ancestors from the Netherlands and France. My father's mother was from Sicily and his father was from Abruzzo. I have reason to suspect some Croatian on the Abruzzo side and Middle Eastern and perhaps Iberian on the Sicilian.

New MyOrigins is completely weird. It gives my mother 13% East Europe and my father 6% East Europe. I have 34% East Europe!!! That doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know of a single ancestor from East Europe. Ancestry gives my mother <1% Europe East. The new MyOrigins gives my mother <2% Sephardic, my father has 0. I have 14% Sephardic. If it weren't for the amount of DNA we share, you'd think I wasn't their child! I would say the new MyOrigins is the worst ethnicity calculator yet. Both 23andMe and Ancestry are much better. The old MyOrigins was better. And years of research with a file cabinet full of primary documents is still better than any of them!

Here's the complete data for my parents, my sister, and two of my double cousins (my mother's brother married my father's sister, so we have the same 4 grandparents):

Mom:

New MyOrigins:
54% British Isles
17% West and Central Europe
13% East Europe
8% Southeast Europe
6% Scandinavia
<2% Sephardic


Old MyOrigins:
72% British Isles
19% Southern Europe
9% Scandinavia

Ancestry:
36% Great Britain
33% Europe West
17% Ireland
6% Scandinavia
4% Italy/Greece
3% European Jewish
<1% Europe East

23andMe:
37.4% British and Irish
15.4% French and German
2.9% Scandinavian
38.6% Broadly Northern European
1.5% Italian
1.2% Broadly Southern European
< 0.1 North African
< 0.1 Unassigned

Dad:

New MyOrigins:
71% Southeast Europe
10% Iberia
6% East Europe
13% Asia Minor
<2% West Middle East

Old MyOrigins:
64% Southern Europe
33% Asia Minor
3% North Africa


Me:

New MyOrigins:
34% East Europe
20% Southeast Europe
19% British Isles
8% West and Central Europe
14% Sephardic
<2% Ashkenazi
<2% Asia Minor
<2% West Middle East

Old MyOrigins:

40% Southern Europe
31% British Isles
6% Scandinavia
5% Eastern Europe
17% Asia Minor
2% North Africa


23andMe:
Southern European:
43.3% Italian
6.7% Broadly Southern European
0.5% Balkan
0.3% Iberian
Northern European:
19.8% French and German
14.3% British and Irish
12.9% Broadly Northern European
0.5% Scandinavian
0.1% Ashkenazi
1.6% Broadly European

My sister (Ancestry transfer):

New MyOrigins:
39% Southeast Europe
38% Europe East
19% British Isles
<2% East Middle East
<2% Asia Minor
<2% West Middle East

Old MyOrigins:
45% Western and Central Europe
32% Southern Europe
6% Eastern Europe
18% Asia Minor

Ancestry:
46% Italy/Greece
24% Great Britain
10% Europe East
6% Scandinavia
4% Europe West
2% Ireland
1% European Jewish

Double cousin A:

New MyOrigins:
39% British Isles
31% Southeast Europe
15% Western and Central Europe
12% Asia Minor
2% Sephardic
<2% North Africa

Old MyOrigins:
48% Southern Europe
21% British Isles
12% Eastern Europe
19% Asia Minor

Double cousin B:

New MyOrigins:
51% British Isles
30% Southeast Europe
10% Sephardic
3% Ashkanazi
<2% Southeast Asia
<2% East Europe
<2% Asia Minor

Old MyOrigins:
46% Southern Europe
18% British Isles
11% Eastern Europe
4% Scandinavia
11% Asia Minor
10% Jewish Diaspora"

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

It's a worthless calc. ngl

[Enflamme]

J'obtiens, par exemple, 75 % d'origine d'Europe de l'Ouest... avant la mise à jour, j'obtenais 0% et 25 % d'origine Scandinave (je n'ai aucune origine, de près ou de loin, Scandinave) :rolleyes:

C'est merdique !

Des tas de gens ont des résultats étranges.


I get, for example, 75% from Western Europe ... before the update, I got 0% and 25% Scandinavian origin (I have zero Scandinavian origin)

It's shitty!

A lot of people have strange results.

[Lek]

There's not much dramatic changes. They just added more components within the clusters they already had. Your results are almost the same. Just more detailed.

Ignore the retard above, 23andme tests like only 500 years back. This goes much further back like 1000-1300 years.

My results are the same as my DNALand. Will probably do 23andme and some others in the future. AncestryDNA lacks some of the components that some of these have but should also test far back AFAIK but for Balkanites it def should not be taken serious considering they don't have a Balkan cluster.

[Petalpusher]

Hi all,
I can see dramatic changes with this new version as you can see:

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/395584Sanstitre52.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=395584Sanstitre52.jpg)

Lost my 100% (not a problem as i feel citizen of the world)
But i'm still quite disappointed, especially withe the apparition of the british cluster, and the increase of the southern europe.
I'm french (75% auvergne and 25% bourgogne) , with no "exotic" ancestor known in my family, even from the south of the country.
I know that France is very plurial in term of admixture. This may be more ancient (we have no informations before 1700's).

I have two questions and hope you will help me :)
a) Is the moorish influence is already included in the iberian cluster or if I had any, it would appear as "north africa" in the map ?
b) I always asked myself if i had any autosomal link to my "germanic" haplogroup (R1b-U106)....is the british isles component could explain that, or is it just because i share some DNA with the meds-brittanics (dark irishs etc...)

I apologize for my approximative english, and for any silly question.

Cheers :)

Forget about FTDNA's composition, upload your raw data on Gedmatch. It will answer your question a and b, you can also get a pca point and lots of calculator to toy with. The issue with this kind of composition, mixing countries, regions and vague stuff is that if you aren't exactly like what they define as their cluster, it's gonna look like a mix of plenty of things but you may well be just like you said 75% Auvergne + 25% Burgundy. Your results depend more of their arbitrary choices than your own admixture.

My Dad is in part from Burgundy, actual region and ancient, probably close to 100% if considering the ancient kingdom, his results : http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?207004-FTDNA-MyOrigins-update&p=4333643&viewfull=1#post4333643

He doesn't get British and Iberian, just more of "West-central Euro" (looks like the same French&German of 23andme) and few weird bits like Asia minor. I ve seen 2 results from Auvergne, they were noticeably more southern than the surroundings regions, even compared to PACA, not sure why.

[Iloko]

Seems like a huge improvement over the previous version. I am very happy with v2.0!

Only thing is I don't see why they can't simply break down your percentages down to the decimal point rather than these whole numbers(2%/5%/<2% etc)...instead should be more like 5.2%/10.7%/0.6% etc. Anyways the new v2.0 is very cool IMO. :)

Edit: and still no chromosome painting :(

[Enflamme]

There's not much dramatic changes. They just added more components within the clusters they already had. Your results are almost the same. Just more detailed.

Ignore the retard above, 23andme tests like only 500 years back. This goes much further back like 1000-1300 years.

My results are the same as my DNALand. Will probably do 23andme and some others in the future. AncestryDNA lacks some of the components that some of these have but should also test far back AFAIK but for Balkanites it def should not be taken serious considering they don't have a Balkan cluster.




You're right, I was totally mistaken!

I asked the question, answer >>>


"
Hi Thomas,

Thanks for contacting us. FTDNA recently updated many of our existing reference populations and added several new ones, and because of this, your results may have changed. Some of these changes may be minor differences and some may not. We have replaced the old reference populations with new ones. The names given for the regions these populations represent in most cases remain the same, but the academic reference population used to determine the percentage match to that region is based on new information available.

While a number of our new reference populations have the same names as the old ones, the information behind them is different. In the old version of myOrigins, population clusters had a lot of overlap. You would be able to see that on the map when looking at population clusters in regions next to each other-- they would bleed into each other. Part of one population would cover part of the next one. With the myOrigins 2.0, while we have kept many of the names of populations the same, we have refined the populations to eliminate this overlap to give clearer results.

MyOrigins reflects your ancestry over the last 2,000 years - roughly 80 generations. While genealogical records can be extensive, they rarely go back that far. The populations of southern Europe and into the Middle East were highly migratory - the easiest explanation I can give you are simply trade routes. You can see on the map that your ancestors quite literally most likely moved from the West Middle East, into Asia Minor, then Southeastern Europe and finally into West and Central Europe.

Thanks,


Lyla"



"This goes much further back like 1000-1300 years."

Yeah, like 2000 years...

This means that if a person gets 100% of European origin (which is my case on another dna test, but I have not yet tested on 23andme, what I intend to do), he can certainly does not get 100% European origin on the new FTDNA update.

Obviously, the results depend on the individual (some get 99/100%), but I'll take an example: Petalpusher's father gets 3% from Asia Minor ... yet I personally think this origin Can go back very far; we can imagine that this origin goes back more than 500 years.

[Nehellenia]

The non-euro admixture at that level is probably noise, i would recommend gedmatch as people have mentioned.. Your results do look extremely French to me.

[Kelmendasi]

I know that they advertise that they go back 1,000 years but I doubt that and believe that they say this so that people can't complain when they get weird results as they can say that it's "ancient" also AuDNA get's replaced every 7-10 generations meaning that your genetic make up get's replaced every 7-10 generations meaning that myOrigins probably measures your recent ancestry. As for your results they have become different I think due to them removing the Southern European category and adding more detailed categories

[oursedur]

Thank you all for your comments/help. I already used GEDMATCH but i have to admit that for me, "packaging" of the FTNDA looked more serious (i know that it's totally idiot :) )
My eurogenes K13 results for comparison

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/32341520170401115815.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=32341520170401115815.jpg)

[Lek]

I know that they advertise that they go back 1,000 years but I doubt that and believe that they say this so that people can't complain when they get weird results as they can say that it's "ancient" also AuDNA get's replaced every 7-10 generations meaning that your genetic make up get's replaced every 7-10 generations meaning that myOrigins probably measures your recent ancestry. As for your results they have become different I think due to them removing the Southern European category and adding more detailed categories

Do you have any proof they don't go back 1000 years? They don't advertise it. It says nowhere on their site as far as I know. I know they go back as such because I asked them personally + The DNA you inherit before that. DNALand goes aproximately 1000 years too probably. WHat's so hard to believe that it doesn't test that far back when you compare it to even 23andme results of people with more mixed ancestry you'll see it tests further back. For example one Albanian who might have slavic ancestry 1000-1500, on 23and the East Euro will maybe only show up as noice or very little, when they take this test it shows much more because it tests further back. Besides most people don't know their ancestry even 400 years back. They could even get mixed results on 23andme and still whine.

People get butthurt about getting mixed results. As for OP, not much has changed, they just made it more detailed.

[Kelmendasi]

Do you have any proof they don't go back 1000 years? They don't advertise it. It says nowhere on their site as far as I know. I know they go back as such because I asked them personally + The DNA you inherit before that. DNALand goes aproximately 1000 years too probably. WHat's so hard to believe that it doesn't test that far back when you compare it to even 23andme results of people with more mixed ancestry you'll see it tests further back. For example one Albanian who might have slavic ancestry 1000-1500, on 23and the East Euro will maybe only show up as noice or very little, when they take this test it shows much more because it tests further back.

It ma
I'm just basing it off the fact that your genetic make up get's replaced every 7-10 generations for example a Jewish guy with documented Jewish ancestry ended up not scoring any Jewish on myOrigins due to his Jewish ancestor being about 10 generation away. I may be wrong obviously but I'm saying this off from what I have heard

[Kelmendasi]

People get butthurt about getting mixed results. As for OP, not much has changed, they just made it more detailed.
True, but tbh I don't see the point in getting butthurt over it since there isn't such thing as a pure race as for OP yh his results have just changed due to the removal of the Southern European category and the addition of the other more detailed categories

[Lek]

Albanians also get North West European etc here. like on DNALand This isn't an error but most likely from Goths/Normans. It has to test 1000+ years because these groups of people settled like 1500 years ago and got asimilated. There's no way it is recent ancestry.

[Enflamme]

Do you have any proof they don't go back 1000 years? They don't advertise it. It says nowhere on their site as far as I know. I know they go back as such because I asked them personally + The DNA you inherit before that. DNALand goes aproximately 1000 years too probably. WHat's so hard to believe that it doesn't test that far back when you compare it to even 23andme results of people with more mixed ancestry you'll see it tests further back. For example one Albanian who might have slavic ancestry 1000-1500, on 23and the East Euro will maybe only show up as noice or very little, when they take this test it shows much more because it tests further back. Besides most people don't know their ancestry even 400 years back. They could even get mixed results on 23andme and still whine.

People get butthurt about getting mixed results. As for OP, not much has changed, they just made it more detailed.



More than 1000 years!

I quote: "MyOrigins reflects your ancestry over the last 2,000 years - roughly 80 generations."


I asked them about the new update.

This goes beyond 1000 years.

This is why i can get 99/100% European origin on some dna test and less on this update.

[Kelmendasi]

Albanians also get North West European etc here. like on DNALand This isn't an error but most likely from Goths/Normans. It has to test 1000+ years because these groups of people settled like 1500 years ago and got asimilated. There's no way it is recent ancestry.
Yep we do, Skerdi once said that maybe some of the Eastern European could be confused for the Northern Influence we have and the Slavic influence

[Petalpusher]

Thank you all for your comments/help. I already used GEDMATCH but i have to admit that for me, "packaging" of the FTNDA looked more serious (i know that it's totally idiot :) )
My eurogenes K13 results for comparison

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/32341520170401115815.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=32341520170401115815.jpg)

What do you get first, SW_France or French first ? I don't know, i'm guessing from the admix, seems you are in between the two samples.

Use K15 so you can see where you land here :

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

[Ibericus]

Thank you all for your comments/help. I already used GEDMATCH but i have to admit that for me, "packaging" of the FTNDA looked more serious (i know that it's totally idiot :) )
My eurogenes K13 results for comparison

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/32341520170401115815.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=32341520170401115815.jpg)
You look very close to spaniards , can you post the Oracles ?

[oursedur]

Hi , Here are my K15 results , I think you're quite right :)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 30.13
2 Atlantic 26.92
3 West_Med 17.75
4 East_Med 8.77
5 Baltic 7.58
6 Eastern_Euro 2.88
7 South_Asian 2.48
8 Red_Sea 2.41
9 West_Asian 0.55
10 Oceanian 0.27
11 Amerindian 0.26
12 Northeast_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 5.83
2 Spanish_Galicia 8.07
3 Spanish_Cataluna 8.62
4 Portuguese 9.13
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.8
6 South_Dutch 9.8
7 Spanish_Murcia 10.67
8 West_German 10.68
9 Spanish_Extremadura 10.77
10 Southwest_English 11.25
11 Spanish_Cantabria 11.81
12 Southeast_English 12.62
13 Spanish_Valencia 12.91
14 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.26
15 Southwest_French 13.41
16 Spanish_Aragon 13.74
17 Spanish_Andalucia 14.59
18 North_Italian 14.61
19 Irish 14.65
20 North_German 15.1

[Ibericus]

Hi , Here are my K15 results , I think you're quite right :)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 30.13
2 Atlantic 26.92
3 West_Med 17.75
4 East_Med 8.77
5 Baltic 7.58
6 Eastern_Euro 2.88
7 South_Asian 2.48
8 Red_Sea 2.41
9 West_Asian 0.55
10 Oceanian 0.27
11 Amerindian 0.26
12 Northeast_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 5.83
2 Spanish_Galicia 8.07
3 Spanish_Cataluna 8.62
4 Portuguese 9.13
5 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 9.8
6 South_Dutch 9.8
7 Spanish_Murcia 10.67
8 West_German 10.68
9 Spanish_Extremadura 10.77
10 Southwest_English 11.25
11 Spanish_Cantabria 11.81
12 Southeast_English 12.62
13 Spanish_Valencia 12.91
14 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.26
15 Southwest_French 13.41
16 Spanish_Aragon 13.74
17 Spanish_Andalucia 14.59
18 North_Italian 14.61
19 Irish 14.65
20 North_German 15.1
Thanks but That's the K13, could you post the K15 ? :D

[oursedur]

Actually it's the k15 V2, but i can't find K15 only

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/77985120170224120650.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=77985120170224120650.jpg)

[oursedur]

Ok, i tried with that site

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm and coordinates are 288 (x) and 224 (y), (if K15 v2 results are transposable, i got 100% total composents)

So I' m at the center of the triangle between french, SW french and Cataluna... So MyoriginsV2.0 was not so wrong (before I was 65% central and 35% south, and now I'm 65% south and 35% Central...that's i qualified quite "dramatical" :) )

[Petalpusher]

Ok, i tried with that site

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm and coordinates are 288 (x) and 224 (y), (if K15 v2 results are transposable, i got 100% total composents)

So I' m at the center of the triangle between french, SW french and Cataluna... So MyoriginsV2.0 was not so wrong (before I was 65% central and 35% south, and now I'm 65% south and 35% Central...that's i qualified quite "dramatical" :) )

Im doing a pca with all French members here, i can see your 25% Bourgogne, i won't put my dad on as it overloads the thing, but he s just above you on the map that im gonna post

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?207368-K15-French-PCA

[oursedur]

Merci , je suis flatté :D