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Lady L
02-04-2009, 02:29 PM
In the tumultuous history of postwar American conservatism, defeats have often contained the seeds of future victory. In 1954, the movement's first national tribune, Senator Joseph McCarthy, was checkmated by the Eisenhower administration and then "condemned" by his Senate colleagues. But the episode, and the passions it aroused, led to the founding of National Review, the movement's first serious political journal. Ten years later, the right's next leader, Barry Goldwater, suffered one of the most lopsided losses in election history. Yet the "draft Goldwater" campaign secured control of the GOP for movement conservatives. In 1976, the insurgent challenge by Goldwater's heir, Ronald Reagan, to incumbent president Gerald Ford was thwarted. But Reagan's crusade positioned him to win the presidency four years later and initiate the conservative "revolution" that remade our politics over the next quarter-century. In each instance, crushing defeat gave the movement new strength and pushed it further along the route to ultimate victory.

Today, the situation is much bleaker. After George W. Bush's two terms, conservatives must reckon with the consequences of a presidency that failed, in large part, because of its fervent commitment to movement ideology: the aggressively unilateralist foreign policy; the blind faith in a deregulated, Wall Street-centric market; the harshly punitive "culture war" waged against liberal "elites." That these precepts should have found their final, hapless defender in John McCain, who had resisted them for most of his long career, only confirms that movement doctrine retains an inflexible and suffocating grip on the GOP.

More telling than Barack Obama's victory is the consensus, steadily building since Election Day, that the nation has sunk--or been plunged--into its darkest economic passage since the Great Depression. And, as Obama pushes boldly ahead, apparently with public support, the right is struggling to reclaim its authority as the voice of opposition. The contrast with 1993, when the last Democratic president took office, is instructive. Like Obama, Bill Clinton was elected in hard economic times and, like him, promised a stimulus program, only to see his modest proposal ($19.5 billion) stripped almost bare by the Senate minority leader, Bob Dole, even though Democrats had handily won the White House and Senate Republicans formed nearly as small a minority as they do today. The difference was that the Republicans--disciplined, committed, self-assured--held the ideological advantage, which Dole leveraged through repeated use of the filibuster. Today, such a stratagem seems unthinkable. There is instead almost universal agreement--reinforced by the penitential testimony of Alan Greenspan and, more recently, by grudgingly conciliatory Republicans--that the most plausible economic rescue will involve massive government intervention, quite possibly on the scale of the New Deal/Fair Deal of the 1930s and '40s and perhaps even the New Frontier/Great Society of the 1960s. All this suggests that movement doctrine has not only been defeated but discredited.

Yet, even as the right begins to regroup, it is not clear that its leaders have absorbed the full implications of their defeat. They readily concede that the Democrats are in charge and, in Obama, have a leader of rare political skills. Many on the right also admit that the specific failures of the outgoing administration were legion. But what of the verdict issued on movement conservatism itself?

There, conservatives have offered little apart from self-justifications mixed with harsh appraisals of the Bush years. Some argue that the administration wasn't conservative at all, at least not in the "small government" sense. This is true, but then no president in modern times has seriously attempted to reduce the size of government, and for good reason: Voters don't want it reduced. What they want is government that's "big" for them--whether it's Democrats who call for job-training programs and universal health care or Republicans eager to see billions funneled into "much-needed and underfunded defense procurement," as William Kristol recommended shortly after Obama's victory.

Others on the right blame Bush's heterodoxy on interlopers, chief among them Kristol's band of neoconservative warriors at The Weekly Standard, who beguiled the administration into the Iraq war and an ill-starred Wilsonian crusade for global democracy. But here again the facts are complicated: Bush's foreign policy owes no more to the neoconservative vision of exportable democracy than to the hard-right "rollback" philosophy of the cold war years. Bush's preemptive war against jihadists, with its promise to "take the battle to the enemy, disrupt his plans, and confront the worst threats before they emerge," echoes Goldwater's assertion, in 1960, that "given the dynamic, revolutionary character of the enemy's challenge, we [must] ... always try to engage the enemy at times and places, and with weapons, of our own choosing." And it was Reagan, the hero of the movement's putative golden age, who, in 1982, called for a worldwide "crusade for freedom that will engage the faith and fortitude of the next generation."

Perhaps, then, the explanation lies not in the Republicans' ideas but in the defective marketing of them. This is the line taken by party strategists who think Karl Rove and his team of operatives grew complacent after their victories in 2002 and 2004 and failed to update "the brand" to suit changing demographics in Sunbelt states like Colorado and Nevada, with their socially liberal white professionals and economically liberal blue-collar Hispanics. But this thesis evades a big question: Does the movement have anything to offer such constituencies apart from a plea for their votes?

What conservatives have yet to do is confront the large but inescapable truth that movement conservatism is exhausted and quite possibly dead. And yet they should, because the death of movement politics can only be a boon to the right, since it has been clear for some time the movement is profoundly and defiantly un-conservative--in its ideas, arguments, strategies, and above all its vision.

What passes for conservatism today would have been incomprehensible to its originator, Edmund Burke, who, in the late eighteenth century, set forth the principles by which governments might nurture the "organic" unity that bound a people together even in times of revolutionary upheaval. Burke's conservatism was based not on a particular set of ideological principles but rather on distrust of all ideologies. In his most celebrated writings, his denunciation of the French Revolution and its English champions, Burke did not seek to justify the ancien regime and its many inequities. Nor did he propose a counter-ideology. Instead he warned against the destabilizing perils of revolutionary politics, beginning with its totalizing *******s. Robespierre and Danton, the movement ideologues of their day, were inflamed with the Enlightenment vision of the ideal civilization and sacrificed to its abstractions the established traditions and institutions of what Burke called "civil society." They placed an idea of the perfect society over and above the need to improve society as it really existed.

At the same time, Burke recognized that governments were obligated to use their powers to meliorate intolerable conditions. He had, for example, supported the American Revolution because its architects, unlike the French rebels, had not sought to destroy the English government; on the contrary, they petitioned for just representation within it. Had King George III complied, he would have strengthened, not weakened, the Crown and Parliament. Instead, he had inflexibly clung to the hard line and so shared responsibility for the Americans' revolt. "A state without the means of some change is without the means of its conservation," Burke warned. The task of the statesman was to maintain equilibrium between "[t]he two principles of conservation and correction." Governance was a perpetual act of compromise--"sometimes between good and evil, and sometimes between evil and evil." In such a scheme there is no useful place for the either/or of ideological purism.

The story of postwar American conservatism is best understood as a continual replay of a single long-standing debate. On one side are those who have upheld the Burkean ideal of replenishing civil society by adjusting to changing conditions. On the other are those committed to a revanchist counterrevolution, the restoration of America's pre-welfare state ancien regime. And, time and again, the counterrevolutionaries have won. The result is that modern American conservatism has dedicated itself not to fortifying and replenishing civil society but rather to weakening it through a politics of civil warfare.

How did this happen? One reason is that the most intellectually sophisticated founders of postwar conservatism were in many instances ex-Marxists, who moved from left to right but remained persuaded that they were living in revolutionary times and so retained their absolutist fervor. In place of the Marxist dialectic they formulated a Manichaean politics of good and evil, still with us today, and their strategy was to build a movement based on organizing cultural antagonisms. Many have observed that movement politics most clearly defines itself not by what it yearns to conserve but by what it longs to destroy--"statist" social programs; "socialized medicine"; "big labor"; "activist" Supreme Court justices, the "media elite"; "tenured radicals" on university faculties; "experts" in and out of government.

But, if it's clear what the right is against, what exactly has it been for? This question has haunted the movement from its inception in the 1950s, when its principal objective was to undo the New Deal and reinstate the laissez-faire Republicanism of the 1920s. This backward-looking program mystified one leading conservative. Whittaker Chambers, a repentant ex-communist, had passed through a brief counterrevolutionary phase but then, in his last years, had gravitated toward a genuinely classic conservatism. He distilled his thinking in a remarkable sequence of letters written from the self-imposed exile of his Maryland farm, and sent to a young admirer, William F. Buckley Jr. When their relationship began, Buckley--a self-described "radical conservative"--was assembling the group of thinkers and writers who would form the core of National Review, a journal conceived to contest the "liberal monopolists of 'public opinion.'" Buckley was especially keen to recruit Chambers. But Chambers turned him down. He sympathized with the magazine's opposition to increasingly centralized government, but, in practical terms, he believed challenging it was futile. It was evident that New Deal economics had become the basis for governing in postwar America, and the right had no plausible choice but to accept this fact--not because liberals were all-powerful (as some on the right believed) but rather because what the right called "statism" looked very much like a Burkean "correction."

Chambers witnessed the popular demand for the New Deal firsthand. He raised milch cattle, and his neighbors were farmers. Most were archconservative, even reactionary. They had sent the segregationist Democrat Millard Tydings to the Senate, and then, when Tydings had opposed McCarthy's Red-hunting investigations, they had voted him out of office. They were also sworn enemies of programs like FDR's Agricultural Adjustment Act, which tried to offset the volatility of markets by controlling crop yields and fixing prices. Some had even been indicted for refusing to allow farm officials to inspect their crops. Nonetheless, Chambers observed, his typical neighbor happily accepted federal subsidies. In other words, the farmers wanted it both ways. They wanted the freedom to grow as much as they could, even though it was against their best interests. But they also expected the government to bail them out in difficult times. In sum, "the farmers are signing for a socialist agriculture with their feet."

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=9dfd540a-3d44-4684-a333-415ef34efa5b

This article leads to a good question...is conservatism dead...?

Ĉmeric
02-04-2009, 04:21 PM
It's neo-Conservatism that is hopefully gasping it's last breath. What we had with Bush was not real Conservatism. Bush & the Republican Congress advocated big government & massive deficits. They are in favor of globalism. They want massive immigration of non-Whites just like the Democrats. The Republicans wants to let in the world for cheap labor, the Democrats for cheap votes. I think a better question would be, "Is the Republican Party dead?". A split within the Republican Party, between Paleo-Conservatives & neocons would be the best thing for Conservatism. What is left of the Bush-Cheney Republicans would fade away & it's adherents would join the Democratic Party & the bulk of the White populace of America would cohese behind the real Conservatives.

The sad reality is it that there is very little difference anymore between Republicans & Democrats. Both are beholden to the same special interests, both are really going after the independent voters & take their base for granted, especially the Republicans. The primary reason for the existance of the parties is the patronage system & who gets the financial rewards of controlling Congress. And the 2 establish parties have set a system that makes it difficult for third parties to succeed.

If the political system was opened up I think we would have at least 3 major political parties in the US:

1. A Conservative (defacto Nordish/Euro-American Nationalist) Party represents Whites, with the exception of leftwinged feminists, gay activists, other liberal types, open borders/country club Republicans.

2. Democratic-Republican Alliance, representing neocons, Clinton Democratics, limousine liberals, Jews & some other ethnic Whites, possible some non-Whites (most likely Asians & Middle Easterners).

3. A lefty Green Party (maybe under another name) representing the far left (feminist, marxists) & most non-Whites.

Baron Samedi
02-04-2009, 04:39 PM
Yes, I do agree, Neo-Con, semi-fascists need to cease in this country soon.

Honestly, I would like to see a devoted Libertarian party doing some work in this country, but most Libertarians could care less about their party, it seems....

Psychonaut
02-04-2009, 08:08 PM
Honestly, I would like to see a devoted Libertarian party doing some work in this country, but most Libertarians could care less about their party, it seems....

The Libertarian Party is actually the most successful of all the "third" parties:


Libertarians have had mixed success in electing candidates at the state and local level. Following the 2002 elections, according to its site [23], 599 Libertarians held elected or appointed state and local offices. Of these, libertarians were in leadership positions in slightly less than half the boards that they served, and were elected in slightly over 1/3rd (approximately 90% of US public offices are appointive, and 5% partisan elective). Most of these Libertarians held nonpartisan appointed positions or were elected in nonpartisan races. Though twelve Libertarians have previously been elected to state legislatures, none hold that office currently, unlike the Green Party (one in Arkansas), and the Progressive Party (five in Vermont). Some Libertarian candidates for state office have performed relatively strongly in statewide races. In two Massachusetts Senate races (2000 and 2002), Libertarian candidates Carla Howell and Michael Cloud, who did not face serious Republican contenders (in 2002 the candidate failed to make the ballot), received a party record-setting 11.9% and 16.7% respectively. In 2002, Ed Thompson, the brother of former Wisconsin Governor Tommy Thompson, received 11% of the vote (best ever Libertarian result for Governor) running for the same office, resulting in a seat on the state elections board for the Libertarian Party, the only such seat for a third party in the U.S.. After the parties 21 electoral victories in November 2008, the Libertarian Party now boasts 207 elected Libertarians currently serving in office across the United States [2], by comparison, The Green Party had 48 electoral victories in 2008 [3], and 193 greens currently serve in public office [24]
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)#Election_victori es)

SwordoftheVistula
02-05-2009, 08:25 AM
It is dying in a way, in that traditional conservatism (free market and property rights, gun rights, local control) appeals mainly to those with northern European ancestry. This segment of the population is falling lower every year. For example, in California, they could probably never elect another conservative like Nixon, Reagan, or Wilson. The only way they can elect a Republican is to run a moderate/liberal like Schwarzenegger who can draw away enough centrist/moderate votes to make up for the vast numbers of nonwhites who give the Dems a huge head start.

Bobby Martnen
08-16-2018, 08:06 PM
This article leads to a good question...is conservatism dead...?

No, you stupid f*cking b*tch, but liberalism is dying.

The Democratic candidates for 2020 are all either really old or virtual unknowns, the country is doing well under Trump, and he's likely to win again in 2020.

Ginsburg, an 85-year-old with heart problems who has had cancer twice, will not be alive in 2024, which means her seat will flip red.

That alone gives us a 6-3 conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court, and Breyer or Sotomayor could also die, which, best case, would give us 8-1.

Thank God that abortion and slut pills birth control are going to be illegal by 2020!

alnortedelsur
08-16-2018, 08:12 PM
Let's see for how long.

Liberals are desperate to censor points of view "too conservative" and "politically incorrect" by banning their You tube channels and other web pages with lots of followers.

If conservatives are so "unpopular" and "outdated" according to them, why are they so desperate to shut them up?

GreentheViper
08-16-2018, 08:14 PM
Ur mum gay

happycow
08-16-2018, 08:17 PM
Lol thread from 2009. Thread starter was probably high on Obama's fumes at the time.

Liberalism looks like a giant stinky turd thanks to him. lmao. Conservatism is alive and well.