Is "East Med" a Levantine admixture?

[Voskos]

Where do you think it originated?

[RN97]

do you mean the component on Eurogenes or what?

[Voskos]

do you mean the component on Eurogenes or what?

yes that's what I'm referring to

[RN97]

yes that's what I'm referring to

On K13 the component is Syrian like. Keep in mind that it doesn't really exist.

[catgeorge]

people mostly settled around water otherwise how are they gonna eat seafood right. hard to believe people will settle in middle of land and survive to be honest.. shows they have dumb genes.

so for example black sea people are the pontids
atlantic ocean are the atlantids which is further defined by north sea, baltic sea, etc
mediteranean are the meds

but like pontids and the combination of both the black and azov seas.. theres a sea everyone seems to forget and that is the aegean sea.. which east meds are a combination of both the mediterannean and aegean sea.... does this theory make sense.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Very likely I would say. In K15 it peaks in populations such as Lebanese Christians\Druze, Samaritans, Cypriots, most Jewish diasporas through the Middle-East, etc.

[Voskos]

people mostly settled around water otherwise how are they gonna eat seafood right. hard to believe people will settle in middle of land and survive to be honest.. shows they have dumb genes.

so for example black sea people are the pontids
atlantic ocean are the atlantids which is further defined by north sea, baltic sea, etc
mediteranean are the meds

but like pontids and the combination of both the black and azov seas.. theres a sea everyone seems to forget and that is the aegean sea.. which east meds are a combination of both the mediterannean and aegean sea.... does this theory make sense.

thats indeed a clever theory, and quite plausible tbh

[MysteriousWays]

I would say Lebanese and/or Syrian and/or Druze more generally in Eurogenes k13.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I believe Europeans that score the most East Med are the ones who had closer contact with ancient phoenicians or ones who have jewish ancestry.

[Wrong]

It is Ancient Israel.

[Kamal900]

Well, here's some ofmy results:

Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 37.86
2 MIDDLE_EASTERN 20.16
3 WEST_ASIAN 16.48
4 WEST_MED 9.35
5 ASHKENAZI 5.79
6 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.05
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.03
8 EAST_AFRICAN 2.40

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 38.10
2 West_Asian 22.04
3 Red_Sea 12.49
4 West_Med 11.90
5 North_Atlantic 6.58
6 Northeast_African 3.87
7 South_Asian 2.69
8 East_Asian 1.20

Levantines, Jews, Samaritans, Cypriots and etc tend to have high east-Med, so I do think that it's most likely is.

[Voskos]

Does anyone know the actual reference populations for K13 and K15?

[RN97]

Does anyone know the actual reference populations for K13 and K15?

IDK how accurate it is
http://i.imgur.com/frqFqaH.png

[Sikeliot]

I have noticed it to be around 28-32% on average for Sicilians, southern Italians, and Jews, anywhere from 20-32% in Greeks (the lower amount mainlanders, higher amount islanders), and closer to 40% for Cypriots. I would assume it is Levantine in origin.

[Petalpusher]

Simply highly basal eurasian, more than any other. Both East_med and "Basal" peak in the same populations, Yemenite_Jew, Saudi,... and the likes (along with Red_Sea). We would need a genome that looks 100% to pinpoint it more precisely, in the sense it doesn't have any affinity at all with WHG or ANE, if it ever happens, which i sometimes doubt to be possible, since everything is basal at some point, then branches out.

As to where it originated, the question is more at what time, since again everything emerged from the split of non African/ Basal Eurasian, post OOA. Some evidences would point that it had been highly concentrated in paleolithic Levant and Iran, but could be circumstantial due to the lack of ancient samples available from elsewhere, N.Africa for example. Natufians is high as well but apparently not as high as Iran.

[Voskos]

Simply highly basal eurasian, more than any other. Both East_med and "Basal" peak in the same populations, Yemenite_Jew, Saudi,... and the likes (along with Red_Sea). We would need a genome that looks 100% to pinpoint it more precisely, in the sense it doesn't have any affinity at all with WHG or ANE, if it ever happens, which i sometimes doubt to be possible, as again everything is basal at some point.

As to where it originated, the question is more at what time, since everything is non African Basal Eurasian at some point, post OOA. Some evidences would point that it had been highly concentrated in paleolithic Levant and Iran, but could be circumstantial due to the lack of ancient samples available from elsewhere, N.Africa for example. Natufians is high as well but apparently not as high as Iran.

if thats true then it's simply a northern version of Arabian/Red Sea admixture. are you sure it's fully basal?

[Sikeliot]

For what it is worth, North Africans (except Egyptians) have almost equal East and West Med, both typically around 25%.

[Petalpusher]

if thats true then it's simply a northern version of Arabian/Red Sea admixture. are you sure it's fully basal?

It's not 100% basal, nothing is so far and we would need the genome to define something fully basal anyway, but it's the highest with Red_Sea. What i meant is everything we find can reach 70-80% supposedly basal but still with some kind of WHG/ANE. Im not sure we ll find something that goes higher, maybe that's everything we ll ever find. Also very difficult to to get some good remains deep in the paleolithic era from these regions (older than Natufians for ex). There s usually no more silicone in the bone to test with the climate.


For what it is worth, North Africans (except Egyptians) have almost equal East and West Med, both typically around 25%.

They are seemingly less Basal than all these regions. Even at K6 they don't get that much Natufian, but that's for two reasons, they have significant WHG and SSA (wich are not Basal like, that's just very old Eurasian) so could have been different in the past.

[Voskos]

this is how ancients score on k15:

oetzi iceman :20% east med
NE1 neolithic hungary: 31% east med
NE6 neolithic hungary: 20% east med

[Wrong]

this is how ancients score on k15:

oetzi iceman :20% east med
NE1 neolithic hungary: 31% east med
NE6 neolithic hungary: 20% east med
ötzi was a fkn beastmode

[Kamal900]

if thats true then it's simply a northern version of Arabian/Red Sea admixture. are you sure it's fully basal?

Accordingto this genetic study, yes, it is:

"An open question in the history of human migration is the identity of the earliest Eurasian populations that have left contemporary descendants. The Arabian Peninsula was the initial site of the out-of-Africa migrations that occurred between 125,000 and 60,000 yr ago, leading to the hypothesis that the first Eurasian populations were established on the Peninsula and that contemporary indigenous Arabs are direct descendants of these ancient peoples. To assess this hypothesis, we sequenced the entire genomes of 104 unrelated natives of the Arabian Peninsula at high coverage, including 56 of indigenous Arab ancestry. The indigenous Arab genomes defined a cluster distinct from other ancestral groups, and these genomes showed clear hallmarks of an ancient out-of-Africa bottleneck. Similar to other Middle Eastern populations, the indigenous Arabs had higher levels of Neanderthal admixture compared to Africans but had lower levels than Europeans and Asians. These levels of Neanderthal admixture are consistent with an early divergence of Arab ancestors after the out-of-Africa bottleneck but before the major Neanderthal admixture events in Europe and other regions of Eurasia. When compared to worldwide populations sampled in the 1000 Genomes Project, although the indigenous Arabs had a signal of admixture with Europeans, they clustered in a basal, outgroup position to all 1000 Genomes non-Africans when considering pairwise similarity across the entire genome. These results place indigenous Arabs as the most distant relatives of all other contemporary non-Africans and identify these people as direct descendants of the first Eurasian populations established by the out-of-Africa migrations."

More --> http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?196952-Indigenous-Arabs-are-descendants-of-the-earliest-split-from-ancient-Eurasian-populations

[Voskos]

ötzi was a fkn beastmode

a true highlander from the Alps

[Petalpusher]

this is how ancients score on k15:

oetzi iceman :20% east med
NE1 neolithic hungary: 31% east med
NE6 neolithic hungary: 20% east med

Oetzi is low on east med for a neolithic, here is the reason :

K7br:

Iceman_MN:Iceman
Basal 45.31
Villabruna 53.13
..

His WHG is higher than many Europeans, even central, but still has a good amount of basal and no ANE of course as it's pre BA. Scoring high east med means more generally you don't have a lot of WHG and quite some basal. Analysing further a virtual component like that is imo a bit pointless. We should switch our reflexion to real ancestral things that actually existed like all the studies have done for 2 years now.

[Anglojew]

Yes. From EEFs etc but probably closer to to the South Caucasus region genetically today.