Does 23andme overestimate major components whilst underestimating minority components?

[Iloko]

Kurd from Anthrogenica(creator of the Gedrosia gedmatch calculators) said this in a post:



23andMe's speculative mode greatly overestimates major components, and underestimates minor components. This is due to their methodology of snipping the genome into 100 SNP segments to compare against the limited references they have. So for example, if 60% of the the segment indicates Middle Eastern, and 40% indicates S Asian, that segment is assigned 100% Middle Eastern. In effect 40% of the segment, which is S Asian is ignored, and the whole segment is assigned Middle-Eastern.

Also, their methodology includes segment smoothing, which means if there are chunks of minor components in a segment, they are ignored.

That is how Iranians and W Asians turn out 98-100% Middle Eastern, and folks in neighboring Pakistan turn out 98-100% S Asian in speculative mode.

This naturally is unrealistic and uninformative, because you don't need a test to tell you that. Conservative mode is better with regards to inflation of major components and underestimation of minor components, but the trouble here is that people get 5-70% unassigned. This is where your minor components are hidden.

The above translates to 23andMe being useless for figuring out your minor components to any degree of accuracy


Source: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?4576-Do-you-trust-23andme-s-Ancestry-Composition-or-GEDmatch-calculators-more&p=145261&viewfull=1#post145261

[Hadouken]

that guy has an agenda bro . he is a baloch from pakistan with minor additional kurdish roots if any . he is constantly trying to shift certain populations in a way to fit his plan/agenda . thats why he says this . 23andme shows your ethnic heritage from the last 500 years in form of bounded geographical areas you are native to . on gedmatch your genome gets broken down further in more detailed components in a larger than 500 year past timeframe

[Peterski]

Yes, I agree. Kurd is right. They are generally very "careful". I mentioned this here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208787-Whats-the-best-test-for-native-american&p=4372512#post4372512


23andMe experts are very careful (which is why they have all of these "Broadly something" things). Nothing is noise there. I would say that they are actually too careful with detecting admixtures.

By too careful I mean reluctant to tell you about minor or "uncertain" admixtures.

And Petalpusher also mentioned the same thing here:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?175011-Eastern-European-at-23andMe-Ancestry-and-FTDNA&p=3654911&viewfull=1#post3654911


In my observation 23andme underestimates it, especially when someone still plots in a very West Euro countries. It might look unsure so it ends up mostly in broadly, even in spec.

As for this:


23andme shows your ethnic heritage from the last 500 years in form of bounded geographical areas you are native to . on gedmatch your genome gets broken down further in more detailed components in a larger than 500 year past timeframe

Well, this could also be true.

But Maciamo from Eupedia argues that 23andMe probably shows 2000 years, not 500...

[Dick]

that guy has an agenda bro . he is a baloch from pakistan with minor additional kurdish roots if any . he is constantly trying to shift certain populations in a way to fit his plan/agenda . thats why he says this . 23andme shows your ethnic heritage from the last 500 years in form of bounded geographical areas you are native to . on gedmatch your genome gets broken down further in more detailed components in a larger than 500 year past timeframe

Dosnt surprise me. They probably all have agendas except for Punt. I don't see why a Somali would have an agenda.

[Hadouken]

Dosnt surprise me. They probably all have agendas except for Punt. I don't see why a Somali would have an agenda.

I still like "Kurd"s calculators and am thankful that he creats them . he also seems to be a nice guy but as I said he is not Kurdish but is descendent from people who have ancient kurdish roots who immigrated to pakistan and mixed with balochs or whatever . and if I recall his tribe is called "Kurd" . never heard of those people to begin with but it is similar to a brazilian mixed person of several things claiming to be portuguese . he says many dumb stuff regarding my ethnicity but I cant do anything xD it wouldnt "help" anyway . all I can do is to post my own results as a REAL kurd.

if you want I can show you some of his results on gedmtach that I found and then show you mine as comparison . you would throw your arms on your head I am serious

I just have ot accept that my ethnicity gets misrepresented and trolled a lot I guess

[Dick]

I still like "Kurd"s calculators and am thankful that he creats them . he also seems to be a nice guy but as I said he is not Kurdish but is descendent from people who have ancient kurdish roots who immigrated to pakistan and mixed with balochs or whatever . and if I recall his tribe is called "Kurd" . never heard of those people to begin with but it is similar to a brazilian mixed person of several things claiming to be portuguese . he says many dumb stuff regarding my ethnicity but I cant do anything xD it wouldnt "help" anyway . all I can do is to post my own results as a REAL kurd.

if you want I can show you some of his results on gedmtach that I found and then show you mine as comparison . you would throw your arms on your head I am serious

I just have ot accept that my ethnicity gets misrepresented and trolled a lot I guess

This Indian trolled people that actually paid for dna testing. Wasn't free like gedmatch.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?207074-Indians-!-are-Yamnaya-(FTDNA)

[Peterski]

I don't see why a Somali would have an agenda.

My ex-soldier neighbor knows why. He worked as a mercenary, fighting against Somali pirates.

[Dick]

My ex-soldier neighbor knows why. He worked as a mercenary, fighting against Somali pirates.

ok, excluding Wadaad.

[Hadouken]

This Indian trolled people that actually paid for dna testing. Wasn't free like gedmatch.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?207074-Indians-!-are-Yamnaya-(FTDNA)

:picard2:

[Peterski]

ok, excluding Wadaad.

Wadaad too. Wadaad escaped from my neighbor to Canada.

[Dick]

:picard2:

maybe Ross knows him.

[Era]

This Indian trolled people that actually paid for dna testing. Wasn't free like gedmatch.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?207074-Indians-!-are-Yamnaya-(FTDNA)

What about other Indians results? That guy whose results are posted looks very Euro. I wouldn't be surprised at those results.

[Hadouken]

@ Dick . here the gedmatch results of "Kurd" and mine

Gedrosia K15

"Kurds" results


http://up.picr.de/29027886gm.jpg


my (real kurd) results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 Caucuses 33.04
2 SW_Asian 21.52
3 Balochi 12.77
4 Burusho 9.9
5 EEF 8.33
6 WHG 8.29
7 SE_Asian 2.31
8 Siberian 1.63
9 Kalash 1.11
10 Onge 0.63
11 E_Asian 0.47
12 W_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Kurd_N 6.5
2 Iranian 7.43
3 Turkish 12.51
4 Kurd_C 13.45
5 Georgian_Jew 15.76
6 Assyrian 16.07
7 Iranian_Jew 16.74
8 Armenian 19.15
9 Iraqi_Jew 19.77
10 Turkmen 21.17
11 Lebanese 21.61
12 Cypriot 22.19
13 Ashkenazi_Jew 23.6
14 Tajik 23.64
15 Tajik_Afghan 24.53
16 Jordanian 25.15
17 Sicilian 25.66
18 Uzbek_Afghan 25.73
19 Syrian 25.9
20 Greek 26.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 92.1% Kurd_N + 7.9% Finnish @ 3.71
2 91.7% Kurd_N + 8.3% Russian @ 3.82
3 94.6% Kurd_N + 5.4% Loschbour @ 3.83
4 91.3% Kurd_N + 8.7% Mordovian @ 3.85
5 91.7% Kurd_N + 8.3% Belarusian @ 3.85
6 92.8% Kurd_N + 7.2% Lithuanian @ 3.94
7 89.8% Kurd_N + 10.2% Hungarian @ 3.98
8 90.9% Kurd_N + 9.1% Norwegian @ 3.98
9 90.7% Kurd_N + 9.3% Czech @ 3.99
10 91.1% Kurd_N + 8.9% Ukrainian @ 4
11 92.8% Kurd_N + 7.2% Estonian @ 4.03
12 89.1% Kurd_N + 10.9% Croatian @ 4.07
13 91% Kurd_N + 9% English @ 4.39
14 60.1% Assyrian + 39.9% Tajik @ 4.44
15 90.8% Kurd_N + 9.2% French @ 4.57
16 87.9% Kurd_N + 12.1% Bulgarian @ 4.59
17 82.3% Kurd_N + 17.7% Turkmen @ 4.73
18 87.8% Kurd_N + 12.2% Uzbek @ 4.78
19 85.9% Kurd_N + 14.1% Turkmen_Afghan @ 4.82
20 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Croatian @ 4.95



Eurasia K9 ASI

"Kurds" results


http://up.picr.de/29027888wn.jpg

http://up.picr.de/29027889ul.jpg



my (real kurd) results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 37.28
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 22.35
3 SW_Asian 20.75
4 WHG 7.95
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 5.37
6 SE_Asian 2.53
7 Siberian_E_Asian 1.91
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 1.86

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Azeri 3.37
2 Kurd_N 5.79
3 Iranian 6.57
4 Georgian 7.48
5 Abkhasian 7.66
6 Turkish 8.54
7 Armenian 8.58
8 Azeri_Dagestan 8.61
9 Adygei 8.83
10 Kumyk 9.31
11 Georgian_Jew 10.02
12 Chechen 11.11
13 Kurd_C 11.42
14 Iranian_Jew 12.07
15 Lezgin 13.38
16 Druze 16.16
17 Iraqi_Jew 16.34
18 Lebanese 17.1
19 Cypriot 17.41
20 Syrian 17.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 74.2% Armenian + 25.8% Tajik_Pomiri @ 2.01
2 96.3% Azeri + 3.7% Iceman @ 2.28
3 95.6% Azeri + 4.4% Stuttgart @ 2.41
4 91.6% Azeri + 8.4% Greek @ 2.45
5 57.3% Iranian + 42.7% Turkish @ 2.46
6 97.4% Azeri + 2.6% LBK_EN @ 2.49
7 97.4% Azeri + 2.6% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 2.5
8 92.6% Azeri + 7.4% Albanian @ 2.5
9 95.2% Azeri + 4.8% Sardinian @ 2.5
10 92.8% Azeri + 7.2% Tuscan @ 2.51
11 91.1% Azeri + 8.9% Sicilian @ 2.53
12 71.9% Armenian + 28.1% Uzbek_Afghan @ 2.55
13 64.3% Cypriot + 35.7% Kurd_SE @ 2.6
14 61.2% Kurd_N + 38.8% Turkish @ 2.61
15 80.8% Iranian + 19.2% Greek @ 2.62
16 93.6% Azeri + 6.4% Bulgarian @ 2.62
17 82.4% Iranian + 17.6% Albanian @ 2.64
18 92.1% Azeri + 7.9% Maltese @ 2.68
19 95% Azeri + 5% Spanish @ 2.68
20 96.4% Azeri + 3.6% RISE_baSca @ 2.7




Eurasia K10 CHG


"Kurds" results


http://up.picr.de/29027890rg.jpg

http://up.picr.de/29027891ji.jpg



my (real Kurd) results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 CHG 42.13
2 Anatolian_Farmers 18.29
3 SW_Asian 15.52
4 WHG 7.96
5 S_Indian 7.67
6 EHG 3.9
7 E_Asian 3.45
8 W_African 0.56
9 Amerindian 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Azeri 5.9
2 Iranian 6.66
3 Kurd_N 7.25
4 Turkish 8.28
5 Kurd_C 9.17
6 Kurd_E 9.98
7 Georgian_Jew 10.24
8 Armenian 10.34
9 Iranian_Jew 11.37
10 Kumyk 12.01
11 Adygei 13.01
12 Azeri_Dagestan 13.15
13 Iraqi_Jew 13.41
14 Assyrian 13.97
15 Chechen 14.38
16 Georgian 14.89
17 Lebanese 14.95
18 Syrian 15.2
19 Abkhasian 15.29
20 Cypriot 15.44


-------------

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/is-this-real-life.jpg

[Dick]

What about other Indians results? That guy whose results are posted looks very Euro. I wouldn't be surprised at those results.

idk. It's not my thread. I'm banned/IP banned from anthrogenica.

[Dick]

@ Dick . here the gedmatch results of "Kurd" and mine

Gedrosia K15

"Kurds" results


http://up.picr.de/29027886gm.jpg


my (real kurd) results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucuses 33.04
2 SW_Asian 21.52
3 Balochi 12.77
4 Burusho 9.9
5 EEF 8.33
6 WHG 8.29
7 SE_Asian 2.31
8 Siberian 1.63
9 Kalash 1.11
10 Onge 0.63
11 E_Asian 0.47
12 W_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurd_N 6.5
2 Iranian 7.43
3 Turkish 12.51
4 Kurd_C 13.45
5 Georgian_Jew 15.76
6 Assyrian 16.07
7 Iranian_Jew 16.74
8 Armenian 19.15
9 Iraqi_Jew 19.77
10 Turkmen 21.17
11 Lebanese 21.61
12 Cypriot 22.19
13 Ashkenazi_Jew 23.6
14 Tajik 23.64
15 Tajik_Afghan 24.53
16 Jordanian 25.15
17 Sicilian 25.66
18 Uzbek_Afghan 25.73
19 Syrian 25.9
20 Greek 26.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.1% Kurd_N + 7.9% Finnish @ 3.71
2 91.7% Kurd_N + 8.3% Russian @ 3.82
3 94.6% Kurd_N + 5.4% Loschbour @ 3.83
4 91.3% Kurd_N + 8.7% Mordovian @ 3.85
5 91.7% Kurd_N + 8.3% Belarusian @ 3.85
6 92.8% Kurd_N + 7.2% Lithuanian @ 3.94
7 89.8% Kurd_N + 10.2% Hungarian @ 3.98
8 90.9% Kurd_N + 9.1% Norwegian @ 3.98
9 90.7% Kurd_N + 9.3% Czech @ 3.99
10 91.1% Kurd_N + 8.9% Ukrainian @ 4
11 92.8% Kurd_N + 7.2% Estonian @ 4.03
12 89.1% Kurd_N + 10.9% Croatian @ 4.07
13 91% Kurd_N + 9% English @ 4.39
14 60.1% Assyrian + 39.9% Tajik @ 4.44
15 90.8% Kurd_N + 9.2% French @ 4.57
16 87.9% Kurd_N + 12.1% Bulgarian @ 4.59
17 82.3% Kurd_N + 17.7% Turkmen @ 4.73
18 87.8% Kurd_N + 12.2% Uzbek @ 4.78
19 85.9% Kurd_N + 14.1% Turkmen_Afghan @ 4.82
20 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Croatian @ 4.95



Eurasia K9 ASI

"Kurds" results


http://up.picr.de/29027888wn.jpg

http://up.picr.de/29027889ul.jpg



my (real kurd) results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 37.28
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 22.35
3 SW_Asian 20.75
4 WHG 7.95
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 5.37
6 SE_Asian 2.53
7 Siberian_E_Asian 1.91
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 1.86

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azeri 3.37
2 Kurd_N 5.79
3 Iranian 6.57
4 Georgian 7.48
5 Abkhasian 7.66
6 Turkish 8.54
7 Armenian 8.58
8 Azeri_Dagestan 8.61
9 Adygei 8.83
10 Kumyk 9.31
11 Georgian_Jew 10.02
12 Chechen 11.11
13 Kurd_C 11.42
14 Iranian_Jew 12.07
15 Lezgin 13.38
16 Druze 16.16
17 Iraqi_Jew 16.34
18 Lebanese 17.1
19 Cypriot 17.41
20 Syrian 17.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.2% Armenian + 25.8% Tajik_Pomiri @ 2.01
2 96.3% Azeri + 3.7% Iceman @ 2.28
3 95.6% Azeri + 4.4% Stuttgart @ 2.41
4 91.6% Azeri + 8.4% Greek @ 2.45
5 57.3% Iranian + 42.7% Turkish @ 2.46
6 97.4% Azeri + 2.6% LBK_EN @ 2.49
7 97.4% Azeri + 2.6% Anatolia_Neolithic @ 2.5
8 92.6% Azeri + 7.4% Albanian @ 2.5
9 95.2% Azeri + 4.8% Sardinian @ 2.5
10 92.8% Azeri + 7.2% Tuscan @ 2.51
11 91.1% Azeri + 8.9% Sicilian @ 2.53
12 71.9% Armenian + 28.1% Uzbek_Afghan @ 2.55
13 64.3% Cypriot + 35.7% Kurd_SE @ 2.6
14 61.2% Kurd_N + 38.8% Turkish @ 2.61
15 80.8% Iranian + 19.2% Greek @ 2.62
16 93.6% Azeri + 6.4% Bulgarian @ 2.62
17 82.4% Iranian + 17.6% Albanian @ 2.64
18 92.1% Azeri + 7.9% Maltese @ 2.68
19 95% Azeri + 5% Spanish @ 2.68
20 96.4% Azeri + 3.6% RISE_baSca @ 2.7




Eurasia K10 CHG


"Kurds" results


http://up.picr.de/29027890rg.jpg

http://up.picr.de/29027891ji.jpg



my (real Kurd) results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 CHG 42.13
2 Anatolian_Farmers 18.29
3 SW_Asian 15.52
4 WHG 7.96
5 S_Indian 7.67
6 EHG 3.9
7 E_Asian 3.45
8 W_African 0.56
9 Amerindian 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azeri 5.9
2 Iranian 6.66
3 Kurd_N 7.25
4 Turkish 8.28
5 Kurd_C 9.17
6 Kurd_E 9.98
7 Georgian_Jew 10.24
8 Armenian 10.34
9 Iranian_Jew 11.37
10 Kumyk 12.01
11 Adygei 13.01
12 Azeri_Dagestan 13.15
13 Iraqi_Jew 13.41
14 Assyrian 13.97
15 Chechen 14.38
16 Georgian 14.89
17 Lebanese 14.95
18 Syrian 15.2
19 Abkhasian 15.29
20 Cypriot 15.44


-------------

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/is-this-real-life.jpg

idk what to tell you.

[Hadouken]

idk what to tell you.

say . "thank"

[Dick]

say . "thank"

thank.

[Peterski]

he is a baloch from pakistan with minor additional kurdish roots if any

"Kurd" is probably as Kurdish as I am Lithuanian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLxS2rE44Zo). :laugh: Nickname is just a nickname. :p

[Dick]

"Kurd" is probably as Kurdish as I am Lithuanian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLxS2rE44Zo). :laugh: Nickname is just a nickname. :p

I'm going to change mine to Kashub.

[Peterski]

I'm going to change mine to Kashub.

If you don't, someone might think that you actually have a Dick.

LOL

[Dick]

If you don't, someone might think that you actually have a Dick.

LOL

i have a y-dna.

[Peterski]

At least you score "63.8% Kashub" in MDLP calculator. Kurd doesn't score Kurdish.

=================


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHwbUx7SGbs

[Hadouken]

"Kurd" is probably as Kurdish as I am Lithuanian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLxS2rE44Zo). :laugh: Nickname is just a nickname. :p

nah . less than that . poles and lithuanians are way closer than him and kurds