The EHGest person, population and province at 2017 AD...

[Rethel]

:confused:

[Rethel]

Bump...

[Rethel]

Suddenly all autosomalists are gone?!?! Amazing... :coffee:

[Kazbolat]

Must be some Uralic population

[Ibericus]

Balts, Karelians, Finns..

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Balts, Karelians, Finns..

That's where I'm usually placed by taxonomists lol.

I was told I was the EHGest person before.

[Petalpusher]

The most EHG members here was SSlava, Elnar and Bes.

Most WHG were Berathraban and Eleonor. Also high SHG.

[RN97]

Probably some baltic group

[Petalpusher]

That's where I'm usually placed by taxonomists lol.

I was told I was the EHGest person before.

Not far, only Frankhammer, Grace, Hevo and Berah are more EHG than you, with little difference between all 4, ofc besides the 3 most EHG.

[Voskos]

EHG=WHG+Cherokee

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Not far, only Frankhammer, Grace, Hevo and Berah are more EHG than you, with little difference between all 4, ofc besides the 3 most EHG.

I thought we were talking phenotypically?

[Styrian Mujo]

Estonians I suppose.

[Rethel]

Some concretes please...

[Petalpusher]

I thought we were talking phenotypically?

Autosomal section, and phenotype isn't defined by wind.


EHG=WHG+Cherokee

Cherokee = EHG/ANE + E.Asian would be closer to reality

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Autosomal section, and phenotype isn't defined by wind.

oh, didn't notice that, sorry

also, what do you mean by 'phenotype isn't defined by wind'?

[Rethel]

Autosomal section, and phenotype isn't defined by wind.

No, but sometimes the outside look is not adequate to majority of au.

[RN97]

Autosomal section, and phenotype isn't defined by wind.



Cherokee = EHG/ANE + E.Asian would be closer to reality

Isn't EHG 1/3 ANE + 2/3 WHG? What is EHG?

[Hevo]

Not far, only Frankhammer, Grace, Hevo and Berah are more EHG than you, with little difference between all 4, ofc besides the 3 most EHG.


Which calculator did you have in mind?

[XenophobicPrussian]

Not Balts. Erzya, Moksha, southern Komi.

[Petalpusher]

No, but sometimes the outside look is not adequate to majority of au.

That's statistically bound to happen, because nobody is 100% something anymore but most of the time it does.

btw in modern populations likely Lithuanians and around (east of it).


Which calculator did you have in mind?

K10, one of the few that has WHG, EHG at the same time.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

Isn't EHG 1/3 ANE + 2/3 WHG? What is EHG?

I think it is like WHG but mixed with ANE, and ANE itself is some ancient population that is not really related to anybody. It's like it's own thing.

I'm probably not even the most phenotypically EHG person considering they probably did not even look like me. I look more like I have some E. Asian in me (which, I do, some) rather than an EHG, and the two are not related, I don't think.

This is where the confusion comes in, because you have many Finns, Estonians that look like me, as if they are part E. Asian, and they are the most genetically EHG people. But those looks actually come from their small amount of E. Asian, not the EHGs, that probably looked little different from WHGs. Some of them may have had psuedo-Mongoloid looks but probably in a different way if they did, from E. Asians.

[Rethel]

That's statistically bound to happen, because nobody is 100% something anymore but most of the time it does.

If Berahthabean is the most WGH with SGH, then
he is the best example of such dissharmony :)


btw in modern populations likely Lithuanians and around (east of it).

So, "Northern Slavic au" is corresponding with EHG?

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

If Berahthabean is the most WGH with SGH, then
he is the best example of such dissharmony :)



So, "Northern Slavic au" is corresponding with EHG?

Berath looks part E. Asian I think..

I have not seen him in a long time but I got a Mong vibe from him.

[Petalpusher]

Isn't EHG 1/3 ANE + 2/3 WHG? What is EHG?

The other way, Lazaridis estimate it at 75% ANE + 25% WHG. Some others at 50/50, it just depends if you consider the older Malta1 or the more recent Afontova Gora for the source of ANE.


If Berahthabean is the most WGH with SGH, then
he is the best example of such dissharmony :)

A Swede the most SHG (Scandinavian hunter gatherer) isn't much of a surprise or "disharmony", is it? WHG/SHG are closer together, SHG is basically WHG and a bit of ANE but much less than EHG.

[Hevo]

K10, one of the few that has WHG, EHG at the same time.

Ahh, i remember you have a K10 spreadsheet with mainly TA members. Do you have a link?

[Rethel]

ANE itself is

A humbug. It is taken from Malta Boy who was
a mix person, and who has no descendants.
Generally people of his area probably were mixed,
living in the territory, where couple of tribes were
crossing each other.

[Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik]

A humbug. It is taken from Malta Boy who was
a mix person, and who has no descendants.
Generally people of his area probably were mixed,
living in the territory, where couple of tribes where
crossing each other.

Yeah maybe.

If they were like Mal'ta boy then they were their own thing..not related to E. Asians, but very close to modern Uralic populations.

A special kind of people.

However, some of them may have been mixed with E. Asians, who knows. Siberia may have been a crossroads for many peoples in all actuality.

[zarzian]

The Finland to Mansi gradient, EHG probably spoke a paleoArctic language, akin to or ancestral to proto Uralic.

[Rethel]

The Finland to Mansi gradient, EHG probably spoke a paleoArctic language, akin to or ancestral to proto Uralic.

Ugrofins did not yet come to this area when EHG purly existed :)
In whole ugrofinian area is clear lingustic IE substrat, so even
without genetics it is quite obvious, that it was not that tounge. :p

[zarzian]

Ugrofins did not yet come to this area when EHG purly existed :)

Were they further East? Because I believe EHG also has an eastern Origin.

[XenophobicPrussian]

EHG=WHG+Cherokee
Absolutely spot on. Finally someone gets it.

However, ANE/EHG also had some Basal Eurasian, as evidenced by EHG being brought down towards Iran_N, and given both Mal'ta boy, Afontova Gora and ANE admixed SHGs had low amounts of Neanderthal admixture(which indicates increased Basal Eurasian admixture).

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vzq9Y01J7Nk/V8mRoM38a7I/AAAAAAAAE1s/_AZ2wgOw4ikNAic1m7lrfE3z0rqWe2OTACLcB/s1600/Ust_Ishimx2_PCA2.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Va8sH8ho66k/Uo0OKBpX4fI/AAAAAAAAJZo/RLd9i4JYpv4/s1600/pca.png

http://abload.de/img/desktop_2014_04_04_21bzs9v.png

Even though this chart is incorrect(Basal Eurasian admixture is something like 70%+ in Natufians, not 45%), the order of the populations should be correct. Note how SHG have more Basal Eurasian than WHGs. Therefore, EHG/ANE cannot be a simple mix of WHG and East Asians as all East Asians and Siberians have 0% Basal Eurasian(and high Neanderthal). The ASI/Melanesian admixture in ANE is irrelevant because all non-tropical populations drifted away from it by around 15k BC, and EHG still had Basal Eurasian/Amerindian shift whilist having no ASI/Melanesian like ANE did. They are a mix of WHG+Amerindian, and Amerindians are an outlier pop that split off from East Asians(the other two outlier East Asian pops are Nganasan or Ulchi/Oroqen and Taiwanese Aborigines, although those two split up much earlier) a very long time ago.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v536/n7617/images/nature19310-f2.jpg

The whole Amerindians are just a mix of WHG+East Eurasian or ANE is an unmixed population outlier is a misunderstanding just like when the African Mota genome was released, people thought it was a pure SSA because it was 100% "East African", but Mota was indeed a mix of Middle-Easterners(Basal Eurasians) and SSA(Yoruba), or when people thought Georgians and Bedouins were 80% Stuttgart/European farmer.

[Lucas]

Ok this is sorted EHG column from K10 Eurasia spreadsheet. Rethel will be happy form the results:)

Mine % is 15,14 so I'm about Scottish level...


Population EHG
Karelia_HG 99,99
Poltavka 99,99
RISE_baAfan 99,99
Samara_Eneolithic 99,99
Yamnaya 99,99
Potapovka 80,6
MA1 69,16
RISE_baAndrov 62,09
Srubnaya 47,23
Scythian_IA 37,02
RISE_baSin 31,28
Finnish 20,8
Estonian 19,96
Karelia 19,78
Lithuanian 19,61
Russian 18,61
Belarusian 16,91
Icelandic 16,83
Ukrainian 16,49
Norwegian 16,22
Tajik_Pomiri 15,95
Tatars 15,55
Kalash 15,23
Scottish 15,14
Czech 14,73
KOTIAS 14,59
English 14,21
Kurd_SE 14,01
RISE_baArm 13,8
Lezgin 13,72
Hungarian 13,47
Tajik 12,46
Chechen 12,26
Croatian 11,97
Pashtun_Afghan 11,44
Burusho 11,22
French 11,19
Pathan 11,17
Azeri_Dagestan 10,89
GujaratiA 10,86
Kumyk 10,78
GujaratiB 9,88
Turkmen_Afghan 9,6
Bulgarian 9,37
Adygei 9,25
Hazara_Afghan 9,24
Punjabi 9,06
UP_Brahmin 8,9
Tajik_Afghan 8,79
Uzbek_Afghan 8,51
Altaian 8,28
Uzbek 8,22
Turkmen 8,12
Uygur 8,02
GujaratiC 7,8
Balochi 6,92
Kyrgyz 6,84
Hazara 6,83
SATSURBILA 6,82
UP_Kol 6,79
Uttaranchal_Brah 6,79
Brahui 6,78
Kurd_C 6,74
Ust_Ishim 6,71
Albanian 6,66
Dharkar 6,59
French_South 6,59
Spanish 6,43
Kanjar 6,42
Makrani 6,09
Nganasan 5,9
Dusadh 5,65
Greek 5,63
UP_Muslim 5,16
Abkhasian 5,15
Tuscan 5,11
Azeri 5,05
UP_Caste 4,91
GujaratiD 4,86
Iranian 4,82
Kurd_N 4,81
Bengali 4,59
Sicilian 4,17
Kurd_E 4
UP_Chamar 3,92
Turkish 3,9
Georgian 3,54
Velamas 3,43
Kurumba 3,38
Piramalai 2,74
Hakapiki 2,73
Georgian_Jew 2,69
Gond 2,55
Maltese 2,26
Armenian 2,11
Loschbour 2,04
Assyrian 1,76
Iranian_Jew 1,64
Chenchu 1,63
Syrian 1,25
Yemen 1,25
BedouinB 1,14
Somali 0,87
Bichon 0,85
Anatolia_Neolithic 0,83
Nihali 0,81
BedouinA 0,78
Lebanese 0,7
Jordanian 0,68
Cypriot 0,6
Ulchi 0,38
Puliyar 0,37
Mongola 0,35
Kusunda 0,26
Saudi 0,08
Iraqi_Jew 0,06
Masai 0,06
Sardinian 0,06

[XenophobicPrussian]

^

Missing various Volga-Uralic groups. It's pretty obvious various non-Estonian/Finnish Finno-Ugric speakers are going to be the most EHG.

Poltavka, Yamnaya and Samara_Enolithic being 100% EHG are also incorrect.

[Lucas]

This is calc about Petalpusher talked here. I don't like it also:)

[Rethel]

Were they further East? Because I believe EHG also has an eastern Origin.

Ugrofinians? In Manchuria. But you will not find there any source of EHG.

[Rethel]

Rethel will be happy form the results:)

Interesting, why do you think that? :)

[Rethel]

This is calc about Petalpusher talked here. I don't like it also:)

Look:
64814
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=64814&d=1493748690

[Not a Cop]

Not far, only Frankhammer, Grace, Hevo and Berah are more EHG than you, with little difference between all 4, ofc besides the 3 most EHG.

My grandma is 19.1 how close is she to the top?

[Petalpusher]

My grandma is 19.1 how close is she to the top?

I d need the whole admix, the calculation as you imagine is more complicated than just listing the score from least to most. It depends what else you score and what kind of affinity to EHG your other components have to begin with, to get an overall relationship, a sort of fstat value (eg 50 EHG + 50 WHG doesn't result as the same relationship to it than 50 EHG + 50 African). Elnar also scored the most EHG but didn't have the best EHG relationship overall, because of his Siberian/E.Asian.

She should be up there with a score like that anyway.

[Not a Cop]

Not far, only Frankhammer, Grace, Hevo and Berah are more EHG than you, with little difference between all 4, ofc besides the 3 most EHG.


I d need the whole admix, the calculation as you imagine is more complicated than just listing the score from least to most. It depends what else you score and what kind of affinity to EHG your other components have to begin with, to get an overall relationship, a sort of fstat value (eg 50 EHG + 50 WHG doesn't result as the same relationship to it than 50 EHG + 50 African)

She should be up there with a score like that anyway.

Here you are:

CHG 18.41
Amerindian 1.05
W_African -
Papuan -
SW_Asian 0.26
S_Indian 0.76
E_Asian 5.10
WHG 42.76
Anatolian_Farmers 12.55
EHG 19.10

[Rethel]

Ok this is sorted EHG column from K10 Eurasia spreadsheet. Rethel will be happy form the results

So what, the highest modern EHG is only 20%?


This is calc about Petalpusher talked here. I don't like it also:)

Then which culture was 100% EHG indeed?

[Petalpusher]

Here you are:

CHG 18.41
Amerindian 1.05
W_African -
Papuan -
SW_Asian 0.26
S_Indian 0.76
E_Asian 5.10
WHG 42.76
Anatolian_Farmers 12.55
EHG 19.10

Second most EHG here after SSlava, slightly higher than Bes. She has like the EHG relationship of a Finn and the WHG of the Russian average.



Hungarian 93,0425
English 91,5679
Scottish 90,8772
Russian 90,0397
Karelian 89,7448
Norwegian 89,4393
Icelandic 88,5081
Finnish 88,2465
Lezgin 88,1693
Lithuanian 86,2943

Elnar 88,5926
Bes 88,5616
NotaCop GM 88,4347
SSlava 88,0274

[Lek]

The EHGest person,


Yo mama

[Not a Cop]

Second most EHG here after SSlava, slightly higher than Bes. She has like the EHG relationship of a Finn and the WHG of the Russian average.



Hungarian 93,0425
English 91,5679
Scottish 90,8772
Russian 90,0397
Karelian 89,7448
Norwegian 89,4393
Icelandic 88,5081
Finnish 88,2465
Lezgin 88,1693
Lithuanian 86,2943

Elnar 88,5926
Bes 88,5616
NotaCop GM 88,4347
SSlava 88,0274

Do you mean that her WHG\EHG ratio is similar to Finnish but WHG score is closer to Russian average?

Anyway that is not suprising, since she comes from Russian\Finnish contact area, her village is not far from Karelian border.

[Petalpusher]

Do you mean that her WHG\EHG ratio is similar to Finnish but WHG score is closer to Russian average?

Anyway that is not suprising, since she comes from Russian\Finnish contact area, her village is not far from Karelian border.

Yes, her overal relationship to EHG is similar to a Finn and the WHG is more in the average for Russian so that makes sense if she is from the area close to the border. Karelians specifically, for some reasons are more WHG-like. I have a Russian from St Petersburg like that too, very WHG and right in the spreadsheet average for Karelia, i don't know there might be something a little different there.

[Not a Cop]

Yes, her overal relationship to EHG is similar to a Finn and the WHG is more in the average for Russian so that makes sense if she is from the area close to the border. Karelians specifically, for some reasons are more WHG-like. I have a Russian from St Petersburg like that too, very WHG and right in the spreadsheet average for Karelia, i don't know there might be something a little different there.

Are basing your Russian average on spreadsheet provided by calc? If so they've used HGDP Russians which are from very NE part of Russia, and probably one of the most outlying group compared to country average (hence high EA and low Neolithic components).