Vikings Possibly Carried Native American to Europe

[Pallantides]

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/vikings-native-american-woman.html

The first Native American to arrive in Europe may have been a woman brought to Iceland by the Vikings more than 1,000 years ago, a study by Spanish and Icelandic researchers suggests.

The findings boost widely-accepted theories, based on Icelandic medieval texts and a reputed Viking settlement in Newfoundland in Canada, that the Vikings reached the American continent several centuries before Christopher Columbus traveled to the "New World."

Spain's CSIC scientific research institute said genetic analysis of around 80 people from a total of four families in Iceland showed they possess a type of DNA normally only found in Native Americans or East Asians.

"It was thought at first that (the DNA) came from recently established Asian families in Iceland," CSIC researcher Carles Lalueza-Fox was quoted as saying in a statement by the institute. "But when family genealogy was studied, it was discovered that the four families were descended from ancestors who lived between 1710 and 1740 from the same region of southern Iceland."

The lineage found, named C1e, is also mitochondrial, which means that the genes were introduced into Iceland by a woman.

"As the island was virtually isolated from the 10th century, the most likely hypothesis is that these genes corresponded to an Amerindian woman who was brought from America by the Vikings around the year 1000," said Lalueza-Fox.

The researchers used data from the Rejkjavik-based genomics company deCODE Genetics.

He said the research team hopes to find more instances of the same Native American DNA in Iceland's population, starting in the same region in the south of the country near the massive Vatnajokull glacier.

The report, by scientists from the CSIC and the University of Iceland, was also published in the latest edition of the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.

The journal said 75 to 80 percent of contemporary Icelanders can trace their lineage to Scandinavia and the rest to Scotland and Ireland.

But the C1e lineage is "one of a handful that was involved in the settlement of the Americas around 14,000 years ago.

"Contrary to an initial assumption that this lineage was a recent arrival (in Iceland), preliminary genealogical analyses revealed that the C1 lineage was present in the Icelandic mitochondrial DNA pool at least 300 years ago" said the journal. "This raised the intriguing possibility that the Icelandic C1 lineage could be traced to Viking voyages to the Americas that commenced in the 10th century."


Norwegian article about the study:
http://www.forskning.no/artikler/2010/november/270547

[Osweo]

Is there any indication that we're dealing with Inuits here, or Indians from much further south?

I just flicked through my files, and see that while C is very common in America, but that it's also seen at its highest levels in the Tungus of Siberia. The furthest west it's shown on the same map is a dash among the Komi, who may have figured in Norse history among the peoples of Biarmia (some of whom I learn from another thread here were settled in northern Norway at a very early period). It's thus not impossible that a little seepage occured all the way to Norway, no? Or does the specific clade preclude this?

[Curtis24]

well, that explains bjork :p

http://i52.tinypic.com/mtm5bm.jpg

[Curtis24]

but seriously, you mean the vikings wanted to have sex with exotic women? who would have thought

EDIT: but seriously, this is pretty interesting.

[Pallantides]

Wonder if any of the Native American genes made their way to southern Norway also...


Future headline:
Adam Beach finds out he have relatives in Lindesnes in Vest-Agder, Norway:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/AdamBeach.pnghttp://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Lindesnes/lindesnes22.jpg


:D

[Arne]

You possibly have Native American Ancestors.
Are you now more proud of yourself ?

[Pallantides]

You possibly have Native American Ancestors.
Are you now more proud of yourself ?

On one of Davide's admixture runs I scored ca. 1% Amerindian, but some of the Swedes got 2% so I don't know if it's an indication of anything...

[lei.talk]

"Haplogroup C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_C_(mtDNA)) is believed to have arisen somewhere between the Caspian Sea and Lake Baikal some 60,000 years before present. Haplogroup C is found in Northeast Asia (including Siberia). Haplogroup C is one of five mtDNA haplogroups found in the indigenous peoples of the Americas, the others being A, B, D, and X. The subclades C1b, C1c, C1d, and C4c are found in the first people of the Americas. C1a is found only in Asia."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Migration_map4.png/350px-Migration_map4.png (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=147643#post147643)

Originally Posted by Iberia http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/kiddo/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=298007#post298007)
You are here showing your ignorance,
since haplogroups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_mitochondrial_DNA_haplogroup) have nothing to do with admixture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_admixture).

...a person with minimal knowledge on genetics knows that haplogroups is a completely different concept than admixture (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/admixture):
Only Autosomal DNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Geographic_origin_tests) can determine ancestry...

...you have no fuckin idea about genetics.
Haplogroups have nothing to do with admixture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation#Etymological_history).

:confused:http://i30.tinypic.com/scytjl.jpghttp://i30.tinypic.com/scytjl.jpg

would some one be help-full
and clarify this miss-understanding?

is this a language-problem
or did i sleep through some crucial classes?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f6/UCSD_logo.png/220px-UCSD_logo.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_San_Diego)
*

[Agrippa]

Well, we can't be sure yet, as almost always in such matters of the interpretation of genetic results:


Our results indicate a latest possible arrival date in Iceland of just prior to 1700 and a likely arrival date centuries earlier. Most surprisingly, we demonstrate that the Icelandic C1 lineage does not belong to any of the four known Native American (C1b, C1c, and C1d) or Asian (C1a) subclades of haplogroup C1. Rather, it is presently the only known member of a new subclade, C1e. While a Native American origin seems most likely for C1e, an Asian or European origin cannot be ruled out.


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/11/mtdna-haplogroup-c1-in-icelanders.html

So probably we deal with some sort of archaic hunter-gatherer groups as well - even if that is less likely, it might be still possible.

Also, the Inuits/Eskimids and some Indianid groups replaced and eliminated some earlier strata, especially for the Eskimos that is a clear thing, they erradicated an older group adapted to the habitat they now inhabitat.

So another option would be, since that doesn't date so long back, that the Vikings brought a more "Palae-Indian", "Palae-Eskimo" woman with them, which original population is now shrunken to almost nothing or even eliminated, so that it couldn't be proven in Eskimos so far.

I'm especially thinking about people like the Sadlermiut:


They are sometimes thought to have been the last remnants of the Dorset culture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadlermiut


The Paleo-Eskimo were the peoples who inhabited the Arctic region from Chukotka (e.g. Chertov Ovrag) in present-day Russia[1] across North America to Greenland prior to the rise of the modern Inuit and/or Eskimo and related cultures. The first known Paleo-Eskimo cultures developed by 2500 BCE, but were gradually displaced in most of the region, with the last one, the Dorset culture, disappearing around 1500 CE.

Paleo-Eskimo groups included the Pre-Dorset; the Saqqaq culture of Greenland (2500 - 800 BCE); the Independence I and Independence II cultures of northeastern Canada and Greenland (c. 2400 – 1800 BCE and c. 800 – 1 BCE); the Groswater of Labrador and Nunavik, and the Dorset culture (500 BCE to 1500 CE), which spread across Arctic North America. The Dorset were the last major Paleo-Eskimo culture in the Arctic before the migration east from present-day Alaska of the Thule, the ancestors of the modern Inuit.


In February 2010, scientists reported they had performed the first genome sequencing of an ancient human. Using fragments of hair 4,000 years old, the National Museum of Denmark, Beijing Genomics Institute, and additional collaborating scientific institutions sequenced nearly 80% of a Paleo-Eskimo man's genome. The man was found in Greenland and believed to be from the prehistoric Saqqaq culture.

Based on the genome, the scientists believe there was a distinct, separate migration of peoples from Siberia to North America some 5,500 years ago. They noted that this was independent of earlier migrations whose descendants comprised the historic cultures of Native Americans and Inuit. By 4,500 years ago, descendants of that later migration had reached Greenland. The remains used for analysis were found in a Saqqaq culture area.[3]

The scientists reported that the man, dubbed "Inuk", had A+ blood type, genes suggesting he was adapted to cold weather, had brown eyes, brownish skin, dark hair, and would likely bald later in life. This marked the first sequencing of an ancient human's genome and the first sequencing of an ancient human's mitochondrial genome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Eskimo

It is always "funny", or better naive, stupid and/or hypocritical, if people talk about other people than Europeans in a way as if they never would have moved, led wars, genocides and replaced other people.

The more powerful and progressive people - culturally and/or racially - always took the land they wanted or just needed, that's one of the major reasons for war and women were often part of the booty, but not always. Sometimes they were killed too.

Would be really interesting to know the EXACT path of this mtDNA in Northern Europe.

In that case, so is my conclusion, this might be another option for the origin of this mtDNA-variant.

[Pallantides]

but seriously, you mean the vikings wanted to have sex with exotic women? who would have thought

EDIT: but seriously, this is pretty interesting.

I guess some Vikings were notorius miscegenators:p

[aherne]

Apparently, they were not. In Greenland, they lived side by side with Eskimo, which they rightfully regarded as savages. When farming became impossible, they died out rather than follow Eskimos in their primitive survival ways.

[aherne]

Wonder if any of the Native American genes made their way to southern Norway also...


Future headline:
Adam Beach finds out he have relatives in Lindesnes in Vest-Agder, Norway:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/AdamBeach.pnghttp://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/Pallantides/Lindesnes/lindesnes22.jpg


:D
If Bjork may be an aberrant Uralic (since she has paper white skin), this guy looks downright Mestizo (very swarthy for an European, let alone Scandinavian). I wonder what is the explanation of such individuals?

[Pallantides]

Apparently, they were not. In Greenland, they lived side by side with Eskimo, which they rightfully regarded as savages. When farming became impossible, they died out rather than follow Eskimos in their primitive survival ways.

Maybe not the Inuits, but there are many stories of Vikings taking Sami brides, though the Saami were respected by Norse, one of the most known tales is the story of Harald Fairhair and Snøfrid.

One winter king Harald went to stay in Uppland and arranged a Yule-celebration for himself on the farm Tofte. On Christmas Eve, as the king sat at table, Svaasi came to the doorway. He sent a word to the king to come out to see him, but the king became annoyed over the message, and the same messenger brought the king’s anger back to Svaasi. But Svaasi asked undisturbed that they should bring the message once again, and said that he was the finn (sami), who the king had allowed to raise a lodge on the other side of the hill.
The king went outside and promised to visit him, and went over the hill to his lodge. Some of his men told him to go, while others advised him not to go.

At his arrival, Svaasi’s beautiful daughter, Snöfrid, stood up, and filled a bowl to the rim with mead, but the king grabbed it all: the bowl as well as her hands, and straight away he felt a heat burning like fire in his body, and straight away he wanted to sleep with her that very same night.
But Svaasi said that he would not give his blessing unless they became legally engaged. Then the king engaged Snöfrid and received her and loved her so madly that he did not care about his kingdom, nor how a king is supposed to behave.
They had four sons: Sigurd Rise, Halvdan Hálegg, Gudröd Ljome and Rognvald Rettilbeine.

Then Snöfrid died, but she did not change hue at all. She looked just as healthy as when she was alive. The king constantly watched over her, hoping that she would wake up eventually.
In this way three winters went by. The king mourned Snöfrid’s death, while the entire country worried about the king’s mental health. But finally Torleiv Spake arrived to heal him, and he did so by first addressing the king:
”It is no wonder, my king, that you mourn such a beautiful and noble woman, and that you honour her on down and silk, like she asked you to. But your noble gesture, and her honour, is diminished by letting her lie on the same bedding for too long, and it would be a good idea to move her and change her beddings.”
But as soon as they moved her from the bed, a disgusting smell spread from her body. They hastened to build a fire to burn her – but in the meantime her entire body turned blue, and worms, reptiles, frogs and amphibians and all sorts of nasty serpents came out of her.
In this manner she sank into ashes, but Harald rose again from his insanity and came to his senses. And he rejoiced with his men and they with him, and the kingdom flourished again.
Source: Snorri Sturlason's Heimskringla


Most of these Saami/Norse hybrids were brought up as Norse(It's very unlikely that Norse man would marry into a Saami Siida and adapt to Saami culture and way of life), something simillar could have happened with Inuit and Native American women being taken and brought back to Scandinavia.

[Óttar]

Squanto had been to Europe on more than one occasion.

[Osweo]

Apparently, they were not. In Greenland, they lived side by side with Eskimo, which they rightfully regarded as savages. When farming became impossible, they died out rather than follow Eskimos in their primitive survival ways.
Was this a joke!?

[Pallantides]

It's hard to know when he is joking or being serious...
I think it's possible that mtDNA C1e could come from Inuits also.




In 2010, Icelandic researchers discovered a C1 lineage in their home country, estimating an introduction date of 1700 or earlier. A Native American origin for this C1e lineage is likely, but the researchers note that a European or Asian one cannot be ruled out.

[Pallantides]

If Bjork may be an aberrant Uralic (since she has paper white skin), this guy looks downright Mestizo (very swarthy for an European, let alone Scandinavian). I wonder what is the explanation of such individuals?

To much dried meat, fermented fish and Møllers tran
http://creatingadam.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/mollers1.jpg

[Don]

Was this a joke!?

His lessons about Iberians, their language, their origin etc. are much better. :tongue

[Agrippa]

Was this a joke!?

Rather not, because I read even in scientist papers and saw in higher level documentaries the idea, that the Vikings died out on Greenland for various reasons, some being that they refused to eat raw meat, which would have been the primary source of vitamins there, once their own agriculture became deteriorated during the Little Ice Age and that they also wore clothes more suitable and fashionable for Western Europe.

They simply changed little of the classic European lifestyle at that time, while the conditions worsened and survival would have only been possible, if they would have adopted, completely, the Eskimo way of life, including the savagery in certain respects, like eating the raw meat and living more mobile in typical way the Arctic demands.

Fact is, there were constant wars with the Eskimos too and when the Vikings/Europeans became weaker, due to the worsening of the climate, they became easy prey, but also because they were unwilling or unable - probably both, to change to the "savage way of life" style.

Christian-European inspired Medieval settlers they were, don't forget that.

[Osweo]

I know all that, Agrippa, it's just that Aherne seemed to approve of the choice of death over adaptation, which seemed pretty stupid to me. :D

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Apparently, they were not. In Greenland, they lived side by side with Eskimo, which they rightfully regarded as savages. When farming became impossible, they died out rather than follow Eskimos in their primitive survival ways.

And how do you know?

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Rather not, because I read even in scientist papers and saw in higher level documentaries the idea, that the Vikings died out on Greenland for various reasons, some being that they refused to eat raw meat, which would have been the primary source of vitamins there, once their own agriculture became deteriorated during the Little Ice Age and that they also wore clothes more suitable and fashionable for Western Europe.

They simply changed little of the classic European lifestyle at that time, while the conditions worsened and survival would have only been possible, if they would have adopted, completely, the Eskimo way of life, including the savagery in certain respects, like eating the raw meat and living more mobile in typical way the Arctic demands.

Fact is, there were constant wars with the Eskimos too and when the Vikings/Europeans became weaker, due to the worsening of the climate, they became easy prey, but also because they were unwilling or unable - probably both, to change to the "savage way of life" style.

Christian-European inspired Medieval settlers they were, don't forget that.

I think it's a question of not being able to do so rather than plain refusal. A humans primitive instinct is to survive. Maybe it was a combination of not being able to digest the raw foods? Humans are adaptable but maybe not in a generation. It would have needed a gradual shift to a raw diet to survive on it.

[Pallantides]

You'd think anyone who can eat smalahove, raw animal hearts and rakfisk wouldn't be squirmish for some raw seal meat... :p
http://static.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2009/06/30/1246341298859_455.jpg
http://www.kammeret.no/bilder/albums/userpics/10432/normal_elg_01.JPG
http://www.lahlum.net/rakfisk/rakfisk2.jpg

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Or rotten Håkärring, whatever that is in English. I think the Norse settlement in Greenland simply went under for other reasons than refusal to eat rotten and raw food...

[Agrippa]

Or rotten Håkärring, whatever that is in English. I think the Norse settlement in Greenland simply went under for other reasons than refusal to eat rotten and raw food...

In the end, they had not enough of both and were often sick, as the bones prove, since conditions became worse and worse. It was a combination of extreme weather, low food and vitamins, bad clothing, no steady connection any more to the mainland (from which they got important goods before), diseases and attacks from the Inuits.

In other areas of Europe, conditions were worse then too than some years before, resulting in Alpinisation and Baltisation in various areas.

In Greenland, the Norse just died out completely and the Eskimos took their place.

Looking at the expansion of Eskimos, which eliminated older arctic populations further West before, they reached many of the European settled areas in the crucial time, when the conditions became unbearable for the Europeans.
And the sources tell us about constant fights with the savages even before.

Also, to adopt a completely different hunter and gatherer culture, without help from outside, in just one to three generations is a big thing, but that's what they were facing, conditions became worse in a relatively short period of time.

[lei.talk]

Motörhead Remember Me http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/jagohan/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=381531#post381531) Or rotten Håkärring,
whatever that is in English.


The flesh of a Greenland shark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_shark) is poisonous. This is due to the presence of the toxin trimethylamine oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylamine_N-oxide), which, upon digestion, breaks down into trimethylamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylamine), producing effects similar to extreme drunkenness. Occasionally, sled dogs that end up eating the flesh are unable to stand up due to the neurotoxins. Similar toxic effects occur with the related Pacific sleeper shark, but not in most other shark species, whose meat is often consumed fresh.

However, it can be eaten if it is boiled in several changes of water or dried or fermented for some months to produce Kæstur Hákarl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl), often Hákarl for short. Traditionally this was done by burying the shark in boreal ground, exposing it to several cycles of freezing and thawing. It is considered a delicacy in Iceland and Greenland.

[aherne]

I know all that, Agrippa, it's just that Aherne seemed to approve of the choice of death over adaptation, which seemed pretty stupid to me. :D

Only because Aryan blood doesn't flow in your veins. Vikings believed they were racialy superior to Eskimos, which they regarded as subhuman because of their extraordinarily primitive lifestyles as well as racially alien physique. Racial unions between the two were utterly disdained and resulted into being banished from community. Saw that even in Holocaust Channel (i was about to say History Channel), presented in a rather negative light (quite expected from a Jerusalem-ruled media outlet).

[Pallantides]

Only because Aryan blood doesn't flow in your veins.

Vikings were not "Aryan" they were Norse/Northmen(Nordmenn)... please don't insult our ancestors with that crap.