DNA reveals origin of Greece's ancient Minoan culture

[de Burgh II]

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/67603000/jpg/_67603388_103176901.jpg

Europe's first advanced civilisation was local in origin and not imported from elsewhere, a study says.
Analysis of DNA from ancient remains on the Greek island of Crete suggests the Minoans were indigenous Europeans, shedding new light on a debate over the provenance of this ancient culture.
Scholars have variously argued the Bronze Age civilisation arrived from Africa, Anatolia or the Middle East.
Details appear in Nature Communications journal.
The concept of the Minoan civilisation was first developed by Sir Arthur Evans, the British archaeologist who unearthed the Bronze Age palace of Knossos on Crete.
Evans named the people who built these cities after the legendary King Minos who, according to tradition, ordered the construction of a labyrinth on Crete to hold the mythical half-man, half-bull creature known as the minotaur.
Evans was of the opinion that the real-life Bronze Age culture on Crete must have its origins elsewhere.
And so, he suggested that the Minoans were refugees from Egypt's Nile delta, fleeing the region's conquest by a southern king some 5,000 years ago.
Surprisingly advanced
"He was surprised to find this advanced civilisation on Crete," said co-author George Stamatoyannopoulos, from the University of Washington in Seattle, US.
The evidence for this idea included apparent similarities between Egyptian and Minoan art and resemblances between circular tombs built by the early inhabitants of southern Crete and those built by ancient Libyans.
But other archaeologists have argued for origins in Palestine, Syria, or Anatolia.
In this study, Prof Stamatoyannopoulos and colleagues analysed the DNA of 37 individuals buried in a cave on the Lassithi plateau in the island's east. The majority of the burials are thought to date to the middle of the Minoan period - around 3,700 years ago.
The analysis focused on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) extracted from the teeth of the skeletons, This type of DNA is stored in the cell's "batteries" and is passed down, more or less unchanged, from mother to child.
They then compared the frequencies of distinct mtDNA lineages, known as "haplogroups", in this ancient Minoan set with similar data for 135 other populations, including ancient samples from Europe and Anatolia as well as modern peoples.
The comparison seemed to rule out an origin for the Minoans in North Africa: the ancient Cretans showed little genetic similarity to Libyans, Egyptians or the Sudanese. They were also genetically distant from populations in the Arabian Peninsula, including Saudis, and Yemenis.
Locally sourced
The ancient Minoan DNA was most similar to populations from western and northern Europe. The population showed particular genetic affinities with Bronze Age populations from Sardinia and Iberia and Neolithic samples from Scandinavia and France.
They also resembled people who live on the Lassithi Plateau today, a population that has previously attracted attention from geneticists.
The authors therefore conclude that the Minoan civilisation was a local development, originated by inhabitants who probably reached the island around 9,000 years ago, in Neolithic times.
"There has been all this controversy over the years. We have shown how the analysis of DNA can help archaeologists and historians put things straight," Prof Stamatoyannopoulos told BBC News.
"The Minoans are Europeans and are also related to present-day Cretans - on the maternal side."
He added: "It's obvious that there was very important local development. But it is clear that, for example, in the art, there were influences from other peoples. So we need to see the Mediterranean as a pool, not as a group of isolated nations."
"There is evidence of cultural influence from Egypt to the Minoans and going the other way."

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821

[Lucas]

Of course similar to Sicilains also probably.

[wvwvw]

Minoans reached all the way to Scandinavia and spread agriculture to Europe.

Neolithic dna from a Funnelbeaker site in Sweden is alleged to resemble that of modern Greeks and Cypriots.
http://eu.greekreporter.com/2012/05/01/new-survey-says-greeks-taught-agriculture-to-neolithic-scandinavians/#sthash.1inW61XH.dpuf

Which proves that the Vikings came from Greece just like Snorri Sturlusen and other historians said. The French and Spanish also originated from Greece as is stated in The Travels of Noah (Ouranus) into Europe and the Mycenaean Greeks also colonised Sardinia as is stated by Pausanius.

Snorri said that Troy was Valhalla. All you need is for the literate aristocracy to originate from there since that's who wrote the histories which of course were concerned only about them.

There's is also the possibility that since the DNA came from aristocratic graves in Crete that it only represents the aristocracy there but it also matches that of Cretan's living today so it must represent all of Crete at the time or all Cretans today are descended from the aristocracy. Also this applies to maternal DNA so it implies a migration not a simple military take over.

The site is the Trapeza cave on the Lasithi plateau. The matches with todays people in Lasithi suggests that the plateau could be a natural withdrawal area.. (i.e. with conservative population, genetically). Consider that in this same area Praisos was one of only two towns in Crete that remained inhabited by original Cretans at the time of Herodotus.

1700 to 1600 BC is where the DNA they tested originated from and these are the precise dates at which the migration from Troy happened after the Thera Eruption (Ragnorok) of 1628 BC destroyed Greece (Midgard) when Surtur (name
of the Cretan king Satur at the time and his army attacked Troy (Asgard) and were defeated.

Prehistoric connections Crete / Norway
https://araenil.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/evidence-of-prehistoric-connections-crete-norway/

Greek influence, if not presence, has been found in the southern part of Sweden.
https://youtu.be/hJlaOj03T_0
Rockcarvings in Alvhem

[Sikeliot]

Of course similar to Sicilains also probably.

Yes, most likely. Which would mean that Minoans had, like modern Sicilians and Cretans, elevated Levantine ancestry. I would be very surprised if they did not.

[DarknessWin]

Yes, most likely. Which would mean that Minoans had, like modern Sicilians and Cretans, elevated Levantine ancestry. I would be very surprised if they did not.

Most of them have not , its few Cretans that they have this and have connection to Saracen Pirates.

[Linet]

Yes, most likely. Which would mean that Minoans had, like modern Sicilians and Cretans, elevated Levantine ancestry. I would be very surprised if they did not.

You just read they did not...:eusa_eh:

[Kelmendasi]

You just read they did not...:eusa_eh:
That was only talking about Mtdna haplogroups not actual admixture, so it's highly possible that they still did had Levantine admix

[Kelmendasi]

This would mean that they were U5 in terms of Mtdna wouldn't it? Anyways they most likely still had Neolithic/Bronze age haplogroups like J2a

[Kelmendasi]

I just found this "However, the findings by Stamatoyannopoulos' team are contradicted by several other previous and subsequent genetic studies, which found that ancient Minoans had largely Middle-Eastern maternal genetic lineages (from populations in contemporary Iraq, Syria and Turkey) and "the female [Minoan genetic] component is heavily influenced by Asia and the Middle East as opposed to Europe."[121][122][123] Stamatoyannopoulos's team did not analyze paternal DNA, acknowledging that previous research found Middle Eastern genetic roots for the ancient Minoans' paternal and maternal lines"

[Rethel]

This would mean that they were U5 in terms of Mtdna wouldn't it? Anyways they most likely still had Neolithic/Bronze age haplogroups like J2a

Rather EV13.

[Rethel]

Another retarded research... :picard1:

They checked mts and decided, that people were locals... :picard2:

Scientists are really idiots...

I am curious, how women did builed this big palaces and
ships and how they were traleving abroud for foreign trade.

Probably, if mts would be foreign, they would assume,
that bunch of Amozonesses came on the island...

Another example for retardness of scentiscs, lunaticness
of these who get it seriously and and a very good example
for deceiving charcter of mts. Simply a tragedy... :picard2:

Another waiste of somebody's else's money...

[Rethel]

Another retarded research... :picard1:

They checked mts and decided, that people were locals... :picard2:

Scientists are really idiots....

I am curious, how women did builed this big palaces and
ships and how they were traleving abroud for foreign trade.

Probably, if mts would be foreign, they would assume,
that bunch of Amozonesses came on the island...

Another example for retardness of scentiscs, lunaticness
of these who get it seriously and and a very good example
for deceiving charcter of mts. Simply a tragedy... :picard2:

Another waiste of somebody's else's money...

[Kelmendasi]

Rather EV13.
Doubt it. They are always linked J2

[wvwvw]

You just read they did not...:eusa_eh:

Cretans do not have elevated Levantine ancestry, haven't you seen the hundreds of Cretan dna results that Sikeliot posted?

[wvwvw]

Another retarded research... :picard1:

They checked mts and decided, that people were locals... :picard2:

Scientists are really idiots....

I am curious, how women did builed this big palaces and
ships and how they were traleving abroud for foreign trade.

Probably, if mts would be foreign, they would assume,
that bunch of Amozonesses came on the island...

Another example for retardness of scentiscs, lunaticness
of these who get it seriously and and a very good example
for deceiving charcter of mts. Simply a tragedy... :picard2:

Another waiste of somebody's else's money...

Are you referring to the Neolithic Minoans pre-2000 BC or to the Minoans after 2000 BC?

The Cretan civilization prior to 2000 BC was Helladic. Proto-Greek was developed by the Hellads.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helladic_period

The Cretan civilization after 2000 BC was Hellenic+Pelasgian+Helladic. The term Minoans is a misnomer and an invention of fiction. ... Minos I did not reign until 1406 BC. Remember, Agamemnon and Menelaus were said to be GRANDSONS of Minos... which places the Mycenean attack on Troy only 3 generations after the beginning of Minoan hegemony in the Med. And the Kretan colonization of Anatolia by the prince known as Scamander (which was probably a movement of refugees from the floods that destroyed most of the north coast of Krete) was only one generation prior to the Trojan War.

The so-called Minoan civilisation doesn't begin properly with the building of palaces at Knossos until after the Hellene and Pelasgian colonizers arrive in Crete. These people combined with the so-called Minoans (Hellads) were the Greeks.

These Hellenes came to Greece from the Balkans in two waves in 2200 and 1900 BC. The second wave of which was many times larger than the first. The Kings of the Minoans were these new "invaders" from the north, and that is where the stone cutting and transporting technology came from. The only other place that was capable of
moving large stones was Britain where Stonehenge was built. It obviously didn't come from Egypt otherwise why didn't it come earlier and why weren't the rocks shaped regularly. Stonehenge is closer to the technology used by the so-called Minoans than the temples and pyramids in Egypt. The technology was indigenous to Europeans and did not come from Egypt.

The Greeks are the combination of these invaders and the previous inhabitants of Greece -the Hellads- who inhabited Greece and the Balkans.

[wvwvw]

Herodotus specifically states that the Hellenes (not to be mixed up with the modern term Greeks) were an offshoot of the Pelagians that became more successful and more numerous. He also states that Greece (Hellas) was originally known as Pelasgia. He does not say that all indigenous peoples of the Greek world were Pelasgians. The Pelasgian language was Arcado-Cypriot since the Pelasgians came from Arcadia, which is of course otherwise referred to as Mycenaean Greek.

Both the Pelasgians and Hellenes (the most prominent Greek tribes) spoke the same language currently known as Greek. The Hellenes spoke the Doric-Aeolic dialect or the Attic-Ionic dialect and the Pelasgians spoke the Arcado-Cypriot dialect which is more closely related to Attic-Ionic than Doric-Aeolic is.

Based on genuine historical accounts and not baseless revisionist nonsense the Pelagians are ruled out as being indigenous Cretans. Crete has it's own indigenous inhabitants called Eteocretans.

The Eteocretans were only regarded as not being Hellenes. That does not mean that they were not regarded as Greeks. The Hellenes were Dorians, Aeolians, Achaeans and Ionians, and named after Hellene the son of Deukalion, the father of Dorus, Aeolus and Xuthus and the word was not coined as a collective term until the first Olympiad. The term Greeks was
coined by the Romans to refer to ALL the inhabitants of Greece since the first people from Greece they came into contact with were Pelasgians from Thessaly who were descended from Graecus the great grandson of Pelasgus.

No ancient historian says that the Eteocretans did not speak Greek. In fact according to Homer their language overlapped with the languages of the Achaeans, Dorians and Pelasgains. The only way this could be possible is if the Eteocretans language was descended from proto-Greek and most likely to be have been a dialect of proto-Aeolic or proto-Mycenaean.

Homer lists them among the Greek tribes and states in perfectly clear language that the Eteocretans the Pelasgians the Dorians and the Achaeans all spoke related Greek dialects:

"There is a fair and fruitful island in mid-ocean called Crete; it is thickly peopled and there are nine cities in it: the people speak many different languages which overlap one another, for there are Achaeans, brave Eteocretans, Dorians of three-fold race, and noble Pelasgi." (Homer's Odyssey 19.170-180)

The term barbarian was used by Herodotus to refer to people who did not speak the Hellenic dialect of Greek. It was also used by the Athenians to refer to those who did not speak the Attic dialect of Greek including the Spartans and Macedonians who as we know were both Greek tribes who spoke the Doric dialect.

The Pelasgians were not Hellenes. Eteocretans were not Hellenes, but Greek-speaking tribes. They were GREEKS as were the Hellenes. The Hellenes were a term applied first to one Greek speaking tribe from Thessaly, and then to all Greek speaking tribes. Greeks was a term applied by the Romans first to the Pelasgians, the first Greeks they came into contact with and then to all the Greek speaking inhabitants of Greece.

[wvwvw]

Doubt it. They are always linked J2

The Neolithic Minoans or Hellads were J2. They were ethnic Greeks and their civilisation was not destroyed by anyone as some ignoramus say. It died by itself due to a volcanic eruption in 1628 BC and was replaced by the Argive and Aeolic civilisations after the Thera explosion.

The Pelasgians (Myceaneans) colonised Crete with Tectemus the son of Dorus the son of Hellen. Tectemus led an expedition of Aeolians and Pelasgians who colonised Crete in about 1400 BC. All of these colonisation events are confirmed archaeologically.

The Cretan ie. Minoan monarchy still continued to rule despite this with Minos II the son of Lycastus the son of Minos I becoming king after Asterius the son of Tectemus. Minos was the grandson of Cadmus.

Tectemus founds colony in Crete and fathers Asterius. Second Mycenaean wave of colonisation in Crete puts an end to Minoan civilisation. Minos II the grandson of Minos becomes king of Crete after Asterius dies.

Linear A was a dialect of Aeolic Greek but it was also used for proto-Ionic Greek. The people who invented Linear A were the proto-Hellenic-Achaeans who first colonised Troy and then Crete. The first proto-linear A inscriptions occur at about this time.

A Linear A sister script was used in Cyprus until 400 BC alongside Cadmian-Arcado-Cypriot script to record Greek writing until Evagoras the Great replaced it with Athenian script. Linear B continued to be used in Greece untill the Dorian '"invasion" in 1100 BC. Linear B was a daughter script of Linear A used by the Mycenaean cousins of the Minoans. Linear A's cousin script archaic Cypriot scrip was used in Cyprus up until 400 BC in a continuous unbroken tradition since Minoan times. In the rest of Greece Cadmian Script replaced Linear B almost completely by 1100 BC and was 
being used since at least 1450 BC.

The original Minoan Linear A and Phaistos scripts were replaced by Linear B and Cadmian scripts in Greece by 1450 BC.

In Cyprus the Linear A Cypriot script lasted until 400 BC until it was replaced by Cadmian script there for there is no historical based for Homer's works being composed of transmitted to later generations in anything except writing.

Cadmian script was used continuously in Greece since 1430 BC when Cadmus 
brought it. This script was used continuously by the Thebans and adapted for 
the Greek language by 1286 BC if not earlier. Greek inscriptions made in 
this script were known to exist from the time of Amphitryone and Laius.

So the Greeks didn't suddenly stop using Linear B. Linear B was used in parallel with Cadmian script from 1430 BC. Inscriptions made in Cadmian script from Mycenaean times are clearly documented by Herodotus.

Cadmian script made it to Argos by at least 1200 BC and to the Dorians by 1150 BC when the Theban king Autesion defected to them. The Argives adopted Cadmian script over Linear B when the Epigoni captured Thebes (or earlier judging by Herodotus description concerning Amphitryon).

The Pelasgians adopted it when the Cadmians were expelled to Thessaly. The Athenians, Aeolians and Ionians adopted this script to replace Linear B at 
around the same time and it was exported to the Ionian and Aeolian colonised 
by 1050 BC and from the Pelasgians that were expelled from Thebes.

The Dorians adopted it when Autesion joined them in Dryopis before they invaded the Peloponnese and replaced the Mycenaean's/Achaeans/Argives.

This script was also introduced to northern Italy by Greek and Trojan colonists in 1180 BC and replaced Linear B which was used in Italy prior to this.
 By 800 BC 5 variants of Cadmian script existed in Greece (including Asia-Minor) and another existed in Cyprus. A Pelasgian version also existed on Lemnos. These variant scripts cannot have evolved unless they came from a common source which was introduced to Greece by 1200 BC at the latest.

[wvwvw]

Doubt it. They are always linked J2

The Neolithic Minoans or Hellads were J2. They were ethnic Greeks and their civilisation was not destroyed by anyone as some ignoramus say. It died by itself due to a volcanic eruption in 1628 BC and was replaced by the Argive and Aeolic civilisations after the Thera explosion.

The Pelasgians (Myceaneans) colonised Crete with Tectemus the son of Dorus the son of Hellen. Tectemus led an expedition of Aeolians and Pelasgians who colonised Crete in about 1400 BC. All of these colonisation events are confirmed archaeologically.

The Cretan ie. Minoan monarchy still continued to rule despite this with Minos II the son of Lycastus the son of Minos I becoming king after Asterius the son of Tectemus. Minos was the grandson of Cadmus.

Tectemus founds colony in Crete and fathers Asterius. Second Mycenaean wave of colonisation in Crete puts an end to Minoan civilisation. Minos II the grandson of Minos becomes king of Crete after Asterius dies.

Linear A was a dialect of Aeolic Greek but it was also used for proto-Ionic Greek. The people who invented Linear A were the proto-Hellenic-Achaeans who first colonised Troy and then Crete. The first proto-linear A inscriptions occur at about this time.

A Linear A sister script was used in Cyprus until 400 BC alongside Cadmian-Arcado-Cypriot script to record Greek writing until Evagoras the Great replaced it with Athenian script. Linear B continued to be used in Greece untill the Dorian '"invasion" in 1100 BC. Linear B was a daughter script of Linear A used by the Mycenaean cousins of the Minoans. Linear A's cousin script archaic Cypriot scrip was used in Cyprus up until 400 BC in a continuous unbroken tradition since Minoan times. In the rest of Greece Cadmian Script replaced Linear B almost completely by 1100 BC and was 
being used since at least 1450 BC.

The original Minoan Linear A and Phaistos scripts were replaced by Linear B and Cadmian scripts in Greece by 1450 BC.

Cadmian script was used continuously in Greece since 1430 BC when Cadmus 
brought it. This script was used continuously by the Thebans and adapted for 
the Greek language by 1286 BC if not earlier. Greek inscriptions made in 
this script were known to exist from the time of Amphitryone and Laius.

So the Greeks didn't suddenly stop using Linear B. Linear B was used in parallel with Cadmian script from 1430 BC. Inscriptions made in Cadmian script from Mycenaean times are clearly documented by Herodotus.

Cadmian script made it to Argos by at least 1200 BC and to the Dorians by 1150 BC when the Theban king Autesion defected to them. The Argives adopted Cadmian script over Linear B when the Epigoni captured Thebes (or earlier judging by Herodotus description concerning Amphitryon).

The Pelasgians adopted it when the Cadmians were expelled to Thessaly. The Athenians, Aeolians and Ionians adopted this script to replace Linear B at 
around the same time and it was exported to the Ionian and Aeolian colonised 
by 1050 BC and from the Pelasgians that were expelled from Thebes.

The Dorians adopted it when Autesion joined them in Dryopis before they invaded the Peloponnese and replaced the Mycenaean's/Achaeans/Argives.

This script was also introduced to northern Italy by Greek and Trojan colonists in 1180 BC and replaced Linear B which was used in Italy prior to this.
 By 800 BC 5 variants of Cadmian script existed in Greece (including Asia-Minor) and another existed in Cyprus. A Pelasgian version also existed on Lemnos. These variant scripts cannot have evolved unless they came from a common source which was introduced to Greece by 1200 BC at the latest. So there is no historical based for Homer's works being composed of transmitted to later generations in anything except writing.

[Rethel]

Becasue forum seems to working better again, so I am bumping this... :wave:

[Rethel]

Are you referring to the Neolithic Minoans pre-2000 BC or to the Minoans after 2000 BC?

Originals. Whenever they lived, they suppose to be E.

[Norse]

This adds more credence to the fact that Europe used to be way more Nordic and that current populations are invaders.

[Sikeliot]

I just found this "However, the findings by Stamatoyannopoulos' team are contradicted by several other previous and subsequent genetic studies, which found that ancient Minoans had largely Middle-Eastern maternal genetic lineages (from populations in contemporary Iraq, Syria and Turkey) and "the female [Minoan genetic] component is heavily influenced by Asia and the Middle East as opposed to Europe."[121][122][123] Stamatoyannopoulos's team did not analyze paternal DNA, acknowledging that previous research found Middle Eastern genetic roots for the ancient Minoans' paternal and maternal lines"

This would make them similar to Sicilians, where the mtdna shows a strong link to the Levant according to one study.

[Kelmendasi]

Cretans do not have elevated Levantine ancestry, haven't you seen the hundreds of Cretan dna results that Sikeliot posted?
Judging by what I have seen, Greek Islanders like Cretans do have a higher amount of Levant admix

[wvwvw]

This adds more credence to the fact that Europe used to be way more Nordic and that current populations are invaders.

Make Greece Nordic again !

[wvwvw]

Judging by what I have seen, Greek Islanders like Cretans do have a higher amount of Levant admix

Lavrentis probably has Maghrebian admix in addition to his levantine ;)

[Rethel]

Doubt it. They are always linked J2

Even if it wouldn't be E, then first migrants on the west were G-Farmers, not J-men.

[wvwvw]

Even if it wouldn't be E, then first migrants on the west were G-Farmers, not J-men.

J2 can be found all over Europe. It was spread to Europe by the Minoans prior to 1600 BC. The same linage was also spread to Persia and then on to India in 1400 BC. There is no genetic linage appart from J2 and Ev13 that appears in all European speaking postulations. J2 is the most predominate linage of the two.

Minoan Greeks were the only European civilisation capable of spreading a common PIE language. (words connected with agriculture, sea terms etc). If there was an Indo-European language it was spread through trade and through writing. Foreign languages and terms cannot be imposed on people unless they are written down and speared through literature. The Greeks were the bringers of writing, agriculture, science, and philosophy to Europe and thus all the terms pertaining to these derived from Greek.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpgSVOP6xIE12bcWzP3fvZhGJTJcqD6 fo2KQ2BuMEKQQMTYi4_

Minoans were of mixed J2 and Ev13 agricultural linages

[Voskos]

I know a guy from my region who belongs to the exact same mtdna subclade as one of these minoan skeletons.

[Voskos]

This adds more credence to the fact that Europe used to be way more Nordic and that current populations are invaders.

none of the mtdna found was nordic. it was either steppe-related, west asian or neolithic.

[Proto-Shaman]

This bastard George Stamatoyannopoulos should be expelled from Washington University, he is a typical manipulator. Minoans were part of the ancient Turanian (Altaic) civilisations. J2 in Cretans is another proof of that!

[Proto-Shaman]

J2 can be found all over Europe. It was spread to Europe by the Minoans prior to 1600 BC. The same linage was also spread to Persia and then on to India in 1400 BC. There is no genetic linage appart from J2 and Ev13 that appears in all European speaking postulations. J2 is the most predominate linage of the two.

Minoan Greeks were the only European civilisation capable of spreading a common PIE language. (words connected with agriculture, sea terms etc). If there was an Indo-European language it was spread through trade and through writing. Foreign languages and terms cannot be imposed on people unless they are written down and speared through literature. The Greeks were the bringers of writing, agriculture, science, and philosophy to Europe and thus all the terms pertaining to these derived from Greek.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpgSVOP6xIE12bcWzP3fvZhGJTJcqD6 fo2KQ2BuMEKQQMTYi4_

Minoans were of mixed J2 and Ev13 agricultural linages

Your imaginary J2 PIE Minoans were proto-Chechen-Turks :thumb001:
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/J2-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Map-J2-M172-Map-J2-Haplogrubu-Haritasi-v3.png

[wvwvw]

Your imaginary J2 PIE Minoans were proto-Chechen-Turks :thumb001:
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/J2-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Map-J2-M172-Map-J2-Haplogrubu-Haritasi-v3.png

I don't recall Turko Chechens ever having an Empire. While the Hyksos Minoan kings who later deified as Gods, ruled from Britain to India. They have left behind archeological evidence that fully corraborates the historical texts.

Saturn was the ruler of the known world and ruled from the pillars of Hercules to India. You see Minoan traces in Britain where they exploited the local copper, you see remants of Minoan colony in Northern Germany, Norway, Asia Minor and in fact as far America.

Where are any Turko-Chechen traces in Europe? Like it or not Minoans were the most technologically advanced civilisation of that time.

Colonizing Cretans

Europe's oldest civilization, the Minoans of ancient Crete, were also the continent's first colonialists, according to investigations in Turkey and elsewhere. While archaeologists have long been aware of Minoan trading activity along the Anatolian coast, excavations at Miletus in southwest Turkey are revealing how 3,700 years ago they expanded to the Asian mainland to set up at least one permanent colony. The discoveries lend credence to an ancient Greek myth of a Minoan colony there.

The discoveries at Miletus also have extraordinary implications for academic attitudes toward ancient Greek mythology, or at least some aspects of it. Greek myth maintained that the Cretans, led by none other than the brother of King Minos, of Minotaur fame, had established a Minoan colony at Miletus. In light of the recent finds, says Niemeier, "It must now be accepted that there is some historical truth behind this myth."
http://archive.archaeology.org/0405/newsbriefs/cretans.html

Minoan colonization of Spain
https://peripluscd.wordpress.com/tag/minoan-colonization-of-spain/

Minoan colonies in America
http://greeceandworld.blogspot.gr/2013/08/minoan-colonies-in-america.html

Minoans in Germany
http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2008/08/minoans-in-germany.html

Minoans in Norway
https://araenil.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/evidence-of-prehistoric-connections-crete-norway/

Greek Petroglyphs in Sweden:
http://www.onspotstory.com/no/audioguide/en/1029/2000-ar-langs-Gota-alv--Historiens-skuggor?guideObjectId=596


https://youtu.be/hJlaOj03T_0

[wvwvw]

This bastard George Stamatoyannopoulos should be expelled from Washington University, he is a typical manipulator. Minoans were part of the ancient Turanian (Altaic) civilisations. J2 in Cretans is another proof of that!

Their civilization left Greek traces behind, that means they spoke proto-Greek. How do you think Greek words like oikos (settlement) or potamac (river) or Nike ended up in native americans' language?

[Proto-Shaman]

Their civilization left Greek traces behind, that means they spoke proto-Greek. How do you think Greek words like oikos (settlement) or potamac (river) or Nike ended up in native americans' language?
I have another example: oceanus is a non-Greek word.

[Proto-Shaman]

I don't recall Turko Chechens ever having an Empire. While the Hyksos Minoan kings who later deified as Gods, ruled from Britain to India. They have left behind archeological evidence that fully corraborates the historical texts.

Saturn was the ruler of the known world and ruled from the pillars of Hercules to India. You see Minoan traces in Britain where they exploited the local copper, you see remants of Minoan colony in Northern Germany, Norway, Asia Minor and in fact as far America.

Where are any Turko-Chechen traces in Europe? Like it or not Minoans were the most technologically advanced civilisation of that time.

Colonizing Cretans

Europe's oldest civilization, the Minoans of ancient Crete, were also the continent's first colonialists, according to investigations in Turkey and elsewhere. While archaeologists have long been aware of Minoan trading activity along the Anatolian coast, excavations at Miletus in southwest Turkey are revealing how 3,700 years ago they expanded to the Asian mainland to set up at least one permanent colony. The discoveries lend credence to an ancient Greek myth of a Minoan colony there.

The discoveries at Miletus also have extraordinary implications for academic attitudes toward ancient Greek mythology, or at least some aspects of it. Greek myth maintained that the Cretans, led by none other than the brother of King Minos, of Minotaur fame, had established a Minoan colony at Miletus. In light of the recent finds, says Niemeier, "It must now be accepted that there is some historical truth behind this myth."
http://archive.archaeology.org/0405/newsbriefs/cretans.html

Minoan colonization of Spain
https://peripluscd.wordpress.com/tag/minoan-colonization-of-spain/

Minoan colonies in America
http://greeceandworld.blogspot.gr/2013/08/minoan-colonies-in-america.html

Minoans in Germany
http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2008/08/minoans-in-germany.html

Minoans in Norway
https://araenil.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/evidence-of-prehistoric-connections-crete-norway/

Greek Petroglyphs in Sweden:
http://www.onspotstory.com/no/audioguide/en/1029/2000-ar-langs-Gota-alv--Historiens-skuggor?guideObjectId=596


https://youtu.be/hJlaOj03T_0

Cretan civilisation is of Turano-Sumerian origin :)

[wvwvw]

I have another example: oceanus is a non-Greek word.

Oceanus also known as Ogyges was the eldest son of Uranus. Uranus was a historical Greek king from the Ectene tribe, an indigenous Greek tribe.

Oceanus was the father of Inarchus and all the river Gods and represents the Achaean migration into Greece along the rivers. Oceanus c.1700 BC was the leader of the Achaeans (Ocheans) when they migrated into southern Greece. The Pelasgi were all descended from Oceanus and all Myceanean kings.

Uranus' other son Iapetus ruled over Hellas.

King list of Argos/Myceanen kings

Argos/Mycenae

c.1742 Uranus
c.1722 Oceanus
1677 Inarchus
1652 Phoroneus <1628 Ogygian deluge>
1622 Apis
1604.5 Argus
1569.5 Criasus
1542.5 Phorbas
1525 Triopas
1502 Crotopus
1508 Xanthus
1481 Sthenelus
1470 Gelanor
1470 Danaus
1451 Lynceus
1410 Abas
1373 Acrisius
1326 Perseus
1308 Electryon
1286 Amphytrion
1286 Sthenelus
1263 Eurestheus
1223 Atreus
1210 Thyestes
1210 Agamemnon
1181-1176 Aegisthus
1175 <interregnum>
1174 Orestes
1172 Aletes
1171 Orestes restored
1156 Tisamneus
1101 Daimenes, Sparton, Tellis, Leontomenes, Damasias, Preugenes

Hellas

c.1742 Uranus
c.1715 Iapetus
1685 Prometheus
1639-1583 Ogyges (Noe or Janus or Ion) <1628 Ogygian deluge>
1602 Iapheth (Iapetus)
1558 Iavan (Ion)
1532 Elisa (Aeolus)
1511 Prometheus
1478/61 Deucalion
1455 <Deucalion flood>
c.1435 Hellen
c.1498 Aeolus
c.1370 Cretheus
c.1305-1267 Aeson
c.1267 Pelias
1246 Acastus
1236 Jason
c.1201 Thessalus

Crete

c.1742 Uranus and Zeus brother of Uranus
c.1715 Kronos
c.1675 Zeus
1646 Cres <1628 Ogygian deluge>
c.1609 Mendes or Marus
c.1580 Marus or Mendes
1533.5 or 1564 Cydon
1503 Apteras
1461 Lapis
1447 Asterius
1437 +Europe
1406 Minos
1377 Tectemus
1362 Lycastus
1320 Asterius
1300 Minos
1239-1236 Deucalion
1239-1203 Catreus
1203 Idomeneus
1183- Leucus

[Proto-Shaman]

Oceanus also known as Ogyges was the eldest son of Uranus. Uranus was a historical Greek king from the Ectene tribe, an indigenous Greek tribe.

Oceanus was the father of Inarchus and all the river Gods and represents the Achaean migration into Greece along the rivers. Oceanus c.1700 BC was the leader of the Achaeans (Ocheans) when they migrated into southern Greece. The Pelasgi were all descended from Oceanus and all Myceanean kings.

Uranus' other son Iapetus ruled over Hellas.

King list of Argos/Myceanen kings

Argos/Mycenae

c.1742 Uranus
c.1722 Oceanus
1677 Inarchus
1652 Phoroneus <1628 Ogygian deluge>
1622 Apis
1604.5 Argus
1569.5 Criasus
1542.5 Phorbas
1525 Triopas
1502 Crotopus
1508 Xanthus
1481 Sthenelus
1470 Gelanor
1470 Danaus
1451 Lynceus
1410 Abas
1373 Acrisius
1326 Perseus
1308 Electryon
1286 Amphytrion
1286 Sthenelus
1263 Eurestheus
1223 Atreus
1210 Thyestes
1210 Agamemnon
1181-1176 Aegisthus
1175 <interregnum>
1174 Orestes
1172 Aletes
1171 Orestes restored
1156 Tisamneus
1101 Daimenes, Sparton, Tellis, Leontomenes, Damasias, Preugenes

Hellas

c.1742 Uranus
c.1715 Iapetus
1685 Prometheus
1639-1583 Ogyges (Noe or Janus or Ion) <1628 Ogygian deluge>
1602 Iapheth (Iapetus)
1558 Iavan (Ion)
1532 Elisa (Aeolus)
1511 Prometheus
1478/61 Deucalion
1455 <Deucalion flood>
c.1435 Hellen
c.1498 Aeolus
c.1370 Cretheus
c.1305-1267 Aeson
c.1267 Pelias
1246 Acastus
1236 Jason
c.1201 Thessalus

Crete

c.1742 Uranus and Zeus brother of Uranus
c.1715 Kronos
c.1675 Zeus
1646 Cres <1628 Ogygian deluge>
c.1609 Mendes or Marus
c.1580 Marus or Mendes
1533.5 or 1564 Cydon
1503 Apteras
1461 Lapis
1447 Asterius
1437 +Europe
1406 Minos
1377 Tectemus
1362 Lycastus
1320 Asterius
1300 Minos
1239-1236 Deucalion
1239-1203 Catreus
1203 Idomeneus
1183- Leucus

Oceanus is acknowledged to be a non-Indo-European loan. no need for masturbation. more words of non-IE origin: auto-, mythos, elektron, xanthos. Minoan is not related to the Greek language, its a Turanian language.

[Jana]

Your imaginary J2 PIE Minoans were proto-Chechen-Turks :thumb001:
http://www.haplogruplar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/J2-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-Map-J2-M172-Map-J2-Haplogrubu-Haritasi-v3.png

Chechens speak Nakh languages, they have nothing to do with Turks. And J2 ultimately has Mesopotamian origin.

[Proto-Shaman]

Chechens speak Nakh languages, they have nothing to do with Turks. And J2 ultimately has Mesopotamian origin.
Nakh is a result of Kurgan Turkic men and Maykopian women. Nothing to do with Turks xD my ass to do :picard2: Northeastern Caucasians are the most Turkic-influenced native Caucasian group. And yes, J2 is Turanian Mesopotamian. Many Proto-Türkic tribes beingz there once upon a time.

[rico]

It's getting more clear that the heritage of Ancient Greeks have dissapeared for the most part and modern Greece is a nation of impostors. When will law protect the heritage of the Ancients? How would Aristotle react if he saw the future of a jobless, immigrats who poses as Greek and spread lies via media?

[wvwvw]

It's getting more clear that the heritage of Ancient Greeks have dissapeared for the most part and modern Greece is a nation of impostors. When will law protect the heritage of the Ancients? How would Aristotle react if he saw the future of a jobless, immigrats who poses as Greek and spread lies via media?

If it had disappeared we wouldn't be speaking Greek and have a Greek conscience. It is the heritage of Egyptians, Babylonians, Phillistines, illyrians, Thracians etc that has disappeared, Greeks at no point in history ceased being Greeks nor have been colonized by invaders as it happened elsewhere.

[MagnusAurelius]

This adds more credence to the fact that Europe used to be way more Nordic and that current populations are invaders.


This adds more credence that you are a laughably stupid idiot who backs up none of his NordCuck fantasys with any facts. The article clearly said affinity with Neolithic population as in Neolithic farmers idiot, who come from the Middle East, Minoans were not Nordic phenotypes, enjoy fantasy land. Keep trying to claim superior ancient European civilizations because Nord's were the primitives of Europe for more than 1000 years and owned by the Italian Roman Empire in war for 700 years.

Haha, aall these fair-brown skinned people with black hair! Wow, SO NORDIC RIGHT!

https://www.google.ca/search?q=minoan+art&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjk-NGhiprUAhUO0IMKHaPhDLUQ_AUICigB&biw=1163&bih=559

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_Wars

I will humiliate you with every stupid post you make fool, I thought the Indian Ross was a fool but you beat him greatly, when it comes to genetic and historical facts, he seems to be more in touch with reality than you little NordCuck.

[Nurzat]

very similar to Pinarbasi HG of Anatolia and of course to Sardinians, but with a bit of extra Caucasus compared to them.

all these great Ancient civilizations in the Mediterranean were genetically and in looks very East Med probably (Anatolia, Caucasus, and Levant ancestry and types)

[Flashball]

very similar to Pinarbasi HG of Anatolia and of course to Sardinians, but with a bit of extra Caucasus compared to them.

all these great Ancient civilizations in the Mediterranean were genetically and in looks very East Med probably (Anatolia, Caucasus, and Levant ancestry and types)

Anatolian from Pinarbasi don't clust with East-Med and Sardinians neither

East-Med have Levantin neolithic-like thing, etc.