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View Full Version : Sicilians are paternally Balkanites.



Voskos
05-29-2017, 05:41 PM
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096074
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0096074.s003


Estimated admixture contributions (mY estimator) from three parental populations to the current population of Sicily and Southern Italy for Y-chromosome (left) and mtDNA (right). Color codes: South-Western Europe (blue), the Balkans (yellow) and the Levant (green). Error bars represent standard deviations calculated on the basis of 10,000 bootstraps.

Y-DNA:

63% Balkans
26%Southwest Europe
11%Levant

Mtdna:

36%Levant
35%Southwest Europe
29%Balkans

RN97
05-29-2017, 05:43 PM
Balkans meaning Greece?

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 05:48 PM
Sicily has little I or R1a if any

Voskos
05-29-2017, 05:48 PM
Balkans meaning Greece?

Serbia, Bosnia, Phokaia, Smyrna, Northern Greece, Slovenia

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 05:49 PM
Serbia, Bosnia, Phokaia, Smyrna, Northern Greece, Slovenia
Albania as well, since the Arbereshe settled there?

RN97
05-29-2017, 05:50 PM
Serbia, Bosnia, Phokaia, Smyrna, Northern Greece, Slovenia

Then most have to be from northern Greece since Greeks colonized it. How else would they get it? What other Balkanites went there?

Voskos
05-29-2017, 05:50 PM
Albania as well, since the Arbereshe settled there?

probably. I just listed the populations they used in the study.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 05:50 PM
Then most have to be from northern Greece since Greeks colonized it. How else would they get it? What other Balkanites went there?
Albanians

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 05:52 PM
http://www.bestofsicily.com/genealogy_markers.gif

Voskos
05-29-2017, 05:58 PM
Then most have to be from northern Greece since Greeks colonized it. How else would they get it? What other Balkanites went there?

the links to the balkans could be more ancient, but I think the data points to Illyrian and Greek colonization, both ancient and modern.Besides some ancient anatolian haplogroups could have been counted as balkan imo.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 05:59 PM
the links to the balkans could be more ancient, but I think the data points to Illyrian and Greek colonization, both ancient and modern.Besides some ancient anatolian haplogroups could have been counted as balkan imo.
Minoans maybe could be linked to it as well

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:01 PM
In the Sicily Ftdna project there is some J2b2-PH1751 which is associated with Albanians

Desperado
05-29-2017, 06:05 PM
explains why they're so crazy

Lek
05-29-2017, 06:06 PM
Ilyrians colonized East Italy and not Sicily . and it's connection to the Balkans is most likely some EV13 etc.

I get Sicilian matches that are Arbereshe.

Voskos
05-29-2017, 06:06 PM
explains why they're so crazy

and why they spend so much time in nightclubs

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 06:09 PM
In the Sicily Ftdna project there is some J2b2-PH1751 which is associated with Albanians

There were no "Ancient" Albanians, you dumbass. Waves after waves of Greek tribes colonized Italy since 1700 BC. Italy was ruled by the Cretan king Saturn and was called Saturnia.

Where are the "Albanian" archeological artifacts in Sicily, any traces of "Albanian" script? nowhere except in your fantasy.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:10 PM
Ilyrians colonized East Italy and not Sicily . and it's connection to the Balkans is most likely some EV13 etc.

I get Sicilian matches that are Arbereshe.
Not only E-V13 but J2b2-L283 as well as this haplogroup is reaches it's highest frequency in the Balkans, also as I said before there were J2b2-PH1751 samples in Sicily

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:12 PM
There were no "Ancient" Albanians, you dumbass. Waves after waves of Greek tribes colonized Italy since 1700 BC. Italy was ruled by the Cretan king Saturn and was called Saturnia.

Where are the "Albanian" archeological artifacts in Sicily, any traces of "Albanian" script? nowhere except in your fantasy.
Learn about genetics before calling someone a "Dumbass" stupid Kurva. J2b2-L283 is associated with Albanians in the Balkans and not Greeks as they are associated with J2a and not J2b2-L283. Also I didn't say "Ancient Albanians" retard, I just said Albanians and I think it's from Arbereshe and not ancient at all

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 06:12 PM
Albanians aren't Illyrians and associated them with Illyrians is anachronism and a rape of history especially when all linguists have made it perfectly clear that the Albanian language has pretty much zero to do with Illyrian.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:14 PM
Albanians aren't Illyrians and associated them with Illyrians is anachronism and a rape of history especially when all linguists have made it perfectly clear that the Albanian language has pretty much zero to do with Illyrian.
So where are we from? Also there was a proto-Illyrian that was found to be J2b2-L283 a haplogroup that peaks in Albanians so saying that we aren't linked to them is a retarded statement

Tacitus
05-29-2017, 06:15 PM
the links to the balkans could be more ancient, but I think the data points to Illyrian and Greek colonization, both ancient and modern.Besides some ancient anatolian haplogroups could have been counted as balkan imo.

On one hand I'd imagine there could be some connection from the Neolithic/Chalcolithic Balkans too, but on the other hand there's this from an older study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

There is relatively little common ancestry shared between the Italian peninsula and other locations, and what there is seems to derive mostly from longer ago than 2,500 ya. An exception is that Italy and the neighboring Balkan populations share small but significant numbers of common ancestors in the last 1,500 years, as seen in Figures S16 and S17S17. The rate of genetic common ancestry between pairs of Italian individuals seems to have been fairly constant for the past 2,500 years, which combined with significant structure within Italy suggests a constant exchange of migrants between coherent subpopulations.

Also, the study in the OP covered other parts of southern Italy too (Calabria, Basilicata, Puglia), but most of the samples are from Sicily.

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 06:16 PM
Not only E-V13 but J2b2-L283 as well as this haplogroup is reaches it's highest frequency in the Balkans, also as I said before there were J2b2-PH1751 samples in Sicily

You idiot the oldest clades of both J2 and Ev13 are found in Greece. The Ev13 in Albanians is due to a thing called FOUNDER EFFECT. Not a single historian has recorded a trace of Albanians before the 11th century while even the smallest balkan tribes are meticulosly recorded.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:19 PM
You idiot the oldest clades of both J2 and Ev13 are found in Greece. The Ev13 in Albanians is due to a thing called FOUNDER EFFECT. Not a single historian has recorded a trace of Albanians before the 11th century while even the smallest balkan tribes are meticulosly recorded.
Who's talking about J2? I'm talking about J2b2-L283 a haplogroup that peaks among Albanians and not J2. Did I say that the oldest clades of E-V13 weren't from Greece..No I didn't. It's expected of a speng like you to jump to conclusions your so retarded that you think that humans come from Greece

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:20 PM
Again, J2a is linked with Greeks not J2b2

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 06:20 PM
Learn about genetics before calling someone a "Dumbass" stupid Kurva. J2b2-L283 is associated with Albanians in the Balkans and not Greeks as they are associated with J2a and not J2b2-L283. Also I didn't say "Ancient Albanians" retard, I just said Albanians and I think it's from Arbereshe and not ancient at all

Kurva and only whore is your mother that gave birth to a bastard like you.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:20 PM
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-J2b.gif

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:21 PM
Kurva and only whore is your mother that gave birth to a bastard like you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oooh feisty little thang. Someones sensitive xD

Lek
05-29-2017, 06:21 PM
In the Sicily Ftdna project there is some J2b2-PH1751 which is associated with Albanians

yeah, I get Italian matches . some are more recent and confirmed Arbereshe. Others more old.

in East Italy where Messapian Ilyrians settled you'll find a lot of EV13 , J2b2 etc Messapian was also linked to Albanian by some. We also plot East of Italians.

Also Italians settled in Croatia etc. And also Romanized people that fused into the South Slavic POPulation.

But Italy has no I2a-din AFAIK unless some Balkan settlers brought it during the Ottoman invasion like some Albanians, Greeks , Bulgarians etc therefore I don't see much connection with Balkans unless you take away the Slavic influence but thats absolutely nothing new

MinervaItalica
05-29-2017, 06:40 PM
Waves after waves of Greek tribes colonized Italy since 1700 BC. Italy was ruled by the Cretan king Saturn and was called Saturnia.


:confused:

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 06:45 PM
It's clearly Greek ancestry by and large. What the hell do Serbs, Croatians, etc. have to do with Sicily? And it must either predate the NE European infiltration into Greece, or the haplogroups show founder effect, as modern Sicilians show little to no NE European affinity but Balkan people do.

My own y-dna could be Greek.

What is clear is the additional Levantine affinity existing in excess of that found in Greece is on the MATERNAL side which implies that ancestry predates Magna Graecia and might be Phoenician or late Bronze Age Canaanite. Using the percentage of Levantine mtdna and y-dna and dividing by 2, it gives about 23-24% Levantine contribution to the island likely in excess of that of the Balkans, which fits well with what studies have shown.

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 06:45 PM
:confused:

Which part of it you don't understand? The fact that half of Italy was called Saturnia and was ruled by a Cretan king or the fact that Sicily was a Greek city state with a Greek population? :confused:

Kriptc06
05-29-2017, 06:46 PM
Oh cool you talking about V13 :D subscribed

And J2b2 is v13's bro btw.

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 06:47 PM
I will add though, the study not sampling Palermo but using BOTH Enna and SE Sicily, skews everything toward Greece since both regions have been shown to link to Greece on their y-dna side. If Palermo was used the Levantine input would be higher.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 06:48 PM
Oh cool you talking about V13 :o subscribed

And J2b2 is v13's bro btw.
Yh both peak among Albos and have a similar frequency among Albos as well, although I think that most E-V13 in Sicily is Greek but the J2b2-L283 is either Neolithic or Arbereshe/Albanian

MinervaItalica
05-29-2017, 06:48 PM
Which part of it you don't understand? The fact that half of Italy was called Saturnia and was ruled by a Cretan king or the fact that Sicily was a Greek city state with a Greek population? :confused:

No, i don't understand which drug you assumed.

wvwvw
05-29-2017, 06:49 PM
It's clearly Greek ancestry by and large. What the hell do Serbs, Croatians, etc. have to do with Sicily? And it must either predate the NE European infiltration into Greece, or the haplogroups show founder effect, as modern Sicilians show little to no NE European affinity but Balkan people do.

My own y-dna could be Greek.

What is clear is the additional Levantine affinity existing in excess of that found in Greece is on the MATERNAL side which implies that ancestry predates Magna Graecia and might be Phoenician or late Bronze Age Canaanite. Using the percentage of Levantine mtdna and y-dna and dividing by 2, it gives about 23-24% Levantine contribution to the island likely in excess of that of the Balkans, which fits well with what studies have shown.

Because both Hellads, Pelasgians (Myceaneans) and Hellenes colonized Sicily and all of them were Greek, the combination of these people made up the Ancient Greeks. The Hellads weren't Levantines, they had been in Greece for at least 10,000 years, and they colonized Italy more than 2500 years ago, in fact from 1700 BC.

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 06:50 PM
If we were to assume haplogroups indicate ancestry, then we end up with Sicilians being:

46% Greek (let's be real, they have very little non-Greek Balkan ancestry)
30.5% Southwest European
23.5% Levantine

This seems about right to me actually. This would allow Greeks to have been as NE European then as today, as Sicilians have roughly half the NE Euro of mainland Greeks.

MinervaItalica
05-29-2017, 06:50 PM
This is the only Greek influence in the Italian peninsula:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-en.svg/1088px-Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-en.svg.png

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 07:00 PM
Sicily has little I or R1a if any

I think it is more that Sicilians have a lot of the Balkan subclades of J2, R1b, and E1b1b which would be due to Greek and possibly Illyrian input.

I am R1a, and I suspect it is from Byzantine-era Greek influence.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 07:03 PM
I think it is more that Sicilians have a lot of the Balkan subclades of J2, R1b, and E1b1b which would be due to Greek and possibly Illyrian input.

I am R1a, and I suspect it is from Byzantine-era Greek influence.
Could be Slavic since most clades of R1a in the Balkans are Slavic

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 07:04 PM
Could be Slavic since most clades of R1a in the Balkans are Slavic

Slavs never settled Sicily directly: any Slavic DNA in Sicily came through Greece first.

I don't know my subclade.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 07:05 PM
Slavs never settled Sicily directly: any Slavic DNA in Sicily came through Greece first.

I don't know my subclade.
Yh true but perhaps that Greek with R1a had Slavic paternal origin as R1a in the Balkans in almost exclusively Slavic in terms of clade, but yet again it could be Germanic and a leftover from the Normans

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 07:06 PM
Yh true but perhaps that Greek with R1a had Slavic paternal origin as R1a in the Balkans in almost exclusively Slavic in terms of clade, but yet again it could be Germanic and a leftover from the Normans

Normans would not have been high in R1a considering they were from northern France.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 07:09 PM
Normans would not have been high in R1a considering they were from northern France.
Yes but they had origin from Scandinavia, some didn't have any Scandinavian origin but a lot did and R1a is pretty common in Scandinavian regions

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 07:10 PM
Yes but they had origin from Scandinavia, some didn't have any Scandinavian origin but a lot did and R1a is pretty common in Scandinavian regions

R1a distribution in Sicily does not correlate with the pattern of Norman settlement.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 07:10 PM
R1a distribution in Sicily does not correlate with the pattern of Norman settlement.
Most probably isn't Norman but you can't say that none of it is Norman. Yes most probably is Byzantine

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 07:12 PM
Most probably isn't Norman but you can't say that none of it is Norman. Yes most probably is Byzantine

R1a in the Trapani area could be Norman but it is stronger in southeastern Sicily which was Greek.

I think it is interesting that Norman input in Sicily is over-amplified, but people neglect to discuss it in Lebanese Muslims and other Levantines who acquired such mixture from the Crusades. :lol:

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 07:13 PM
R1a in the Trapani area could be Norman but it is stronger in southeastern Sicily which was Greek.

I think it is interesting that Norman input in Sicily is over-amplified, but people neglect to discuss it in Lebanese Muslims and other Levantines who acquired such mixture from the Crusades. :lol:
True. I was shocked to see how much northern Muslim Lebanese were when compared to the Christians, this is probably due to Crusaders?

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 07:17 PM
True. I was shocked to see how much northern Muslim Lebanese were when compared to the Christians, this is probably due to Crusaders?

Yes, which implies Norman ancestry but also potentially French from other regions, British/Irish, or even northern Italian.

Laberia
05-29-2017, 09:11 PM
There were no "Ancient" Albanians, you dumbass. Waves after waves of Greek tribes colonized Italy since 1700 BC. Italy was ruled by the Cretan king Saturn and was called Saturnia.

Where are the "Albanian" archeological artifacts in Sicily, any traces of "Albanian" script? nowhere except in your fantasy.

You stupid goat. You are an asiatic scum. Here they are:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsBeC8mu98nj00tKFlNUFrt0AjmYJDp rQhhn3pe42kjjFhKx3KFw
Arbėreshė one blood one language one besa.

Laberia
05-29-2017, 09:15 PM
Kurva and only whore is your mother that gave birth to a bastard like you.

The inferior subhuman scum from Asia.

Laberia
05-29-2017, 09:17 PM
Which part of it you don't understand?
The fact that an Armenian pretend to be considered a descendant of ancient greeks.

Voskos
05-29-2017, 09:22 PM
that escalated quite fast

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 09:34 PM
that escalated quite fast
HAHAHAHA lol. You weren't expecting this when you opened the thread were you? xD. But on a serious note Raine is stupid af

Dick
05-29-2017, 09:39 PM
Y-DNA:

63% Balkans
26%Southwest Europe
11%Levant

Subhumans

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 09:50 PM
Subhumans
Nigga u iz a Serb :no000000:

catgeorge
05-29-2017, 09:51 PM
R1a and I probably came from Dorian input (via scythian/central europe) as they colonized Magna Graecia.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 09:52 PM
R1a and I probably came from Dorian input (via scythian/central europe) as they colonized Magna Graecia.
Most R1a in the Balkans is Slavic though

catgeorge
05-29-2017, 09:53 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-en.svg

catgeorge
05-29-2017, 09:54 PM
Most R1a in the Balkans is Slavic though

R1a is too old to be called "slavic" for political and haplo nationalism reasons

Dick
05-29-2017, 09:55 PM
Nigga u iz a Serb :no000000:

Not paternally, subhuman.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 09:57 PM
R1a is too old to be called "slavic" for political and haplo nationalism reasons
Yes, R1a itself is too old but there are mutations of R1a which have mutated within the Slavic ethnogenesis for example R1a-L1029 is a pan-Slavic clade of R1a

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 09:58 PM
Not paternally, subhuman.
Ahhh shit u got me on this one you sly kurva

Dick
05-29-2017, 10:08 PM
R1a is too old to be called "slavic" for political and haplo nationalism reasons

Depends on the subclade, there are scandinavian R1a subclades. Either way they're all gypsies.

http://zelas.blog.bg/photos/104544/original/R1a-ch.jpg

catgeorge
05-29-2017, 10:08 PM
Yes, R1a itself is too old but there are mutations of R1a which have mutated within the Slavic ethnogenesis for example R1a-L1029 is a pan-Slavic clade of R1a

Not convinced corded ware is pre-slavic. more like proto-iranian culture of pre-german and pre-balto slavic (both perhaps scythian, celtic and iranic mix). CTS1211 is the young mutation you are referring to under Z280.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:11 PM
Not convinced corded ware is pre-slavic. more like proto-iranian culture of pre-german and pre-balto slavic (both perhaps scythian, celtic and iranic mix). CTS1211 is the young mutation you are referring to under Z280.
R1a-Z93 is the Indo-Iranian branch and is virtually absent in the Balkans. The most predominant clades in the Balkans are Slavic clades http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Slavic. Obviously R1a is older than the Slavs but some mutations of R1a evolved in the Slavic ethnogenesis which is why they are part of a Slavic clade

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:13 PM
https://pp.vk.me/c412329/v412329003/6742/-ALhiG7WYe8.jpg

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:15 PM
R1a in Sicily seems to be from the Iranic branch

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:17 PM
Which means that it probably isn't from Greeks but from Asian groups

catgeorge
05-29-2017, 10:21 PM
https://pp.vk.me/c412329/v412329003/6742/-ALhiG7WYe8.jpg

Mot sure who made that map but Eupedia is fairly reliable


Bosnian and Serbian R1a belongs for the most part to a young clade of CTS1211 (Y33>CTS8816>Y3300>Y5647>YP611>YP3987>YP3992 subclade; TMRCA 950 years), with a minority of older M458 (CTS11962>L1029 subclade; TMRCA 2200 years) and Z92 (Y4459>YP617 subclade; TMRCA 3400 years). Croatian R1a falls almost exclusively within CTS1211, but to another clade (Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2608 subclade, TMRCA 1950 years), with a small minority of YP340>P278.2 (TMRCA 2100 years). The R1a-Y3300 (aka L1280) found in Serbia and Bosnia seems to have expanded from Poland via Hungary during the early medieval period. The Croatian R1a-Y2608 also expanded from Poland during the same period, but via Czechia, Slovakia, Austria and Slovenia.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:24 PM
According to Eupedia, Sicily has a low amount of R1a-Z93 but on the map I posted it seems to be the most dominant clade of R1a.
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-Z93-Asia.png

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 10:27 PM
Then it is probably from Hellenized West Asians who came to Sicily when it was Byzantine. Probably Armenians, Persians, etc.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:28 PM
http://oi48.tinypic.com/2e1hw2c.jpg

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:29 PM
It is the ancient Greeks who had the biggest impact on the genetic make-up of southern Italy. From the 8th century BCE the Greeks set up colonies all along the coasts of Campania, Calabria, Basilicata, southern Apulia, and Sicily (except the western tip) in what would become known as Magna Graecia. Their genetic signature are essentially haplogroups J2 (18-30%) and E1b1b (15-25%), but the ancient Greeks also carried some R1b-M269/L23 (5-10%), G2a (3-8%), T (1-6%), I2a1b (1-5%), R1a (1-3%), and J1 (1-2%). It is very clear on the haplogroup maps that the areas in central and southern Italy furthest from the coast and from ancient Greek colonies, such as Abruzzo, Molise and the southern Apennines correspond to the highest percentages of haplogroups G2a, J1 and T in Italy, but also the lowest frequency of E1b1b and J2 in the southern half of Italy. There is no better way to contrast the Neolithic population of Italy with the ancient Greek colonists.

The Greeks also colonised Liguria and the French Riviera, where they founded Genoa, Nice (which was an Italian city until 1860) and Marseille. The Phoenicians and Cartaginians also kept bases in Liguria at some point. Modern Ligurians have the highest percentage of haplogroup E1b1b outside southern Italy (almost entirely the Greek E-V13), but also the highest level of G2a and J1 outside the Apennines, which probably means that this mountainous region also served as a shelter to Neolithic populations during the Italic invasions. R1b makes up about half of Ligurian lineages, among which 22% belong to the U152 subclade, 20% to P312 (the highest level in Italy), 6% to L23, and 2% to L21. The ancient Ligures spoke a language intermediary between Celtic (P312, L21) and Italic (U152) families, and their Y-DNA is split exactly in half between Italic and Celtic. The 6% of L23 are probably of Greek origin. Overall about one third of the modern Ligurian lineages could be of Greek origin.

catgeorge
05-29-2017, 10:30 PM
Then it is probably from Hellenized West Asians who came to Sicily when it was Byzantine. Probably Armenians, Persians, etc.

More likely Hellenized Thracians and Scythians.. Bulgaria and Romania today have a very diverse R1a but none to the "young" group.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:30 PM
Between 1200 and 539 BCE the Phoenicians built a vast commercial empire from their Levantine homeland along the southern Mediterranean as far as Iberia. In Italy they had colonies in western Sicily and southern and western Sardinia. Based on the haplogroups found in modern Lebanon and in their former colonies, the Phoenicians seem to have carried a mixture of haplogroup J2, J1, E1b1b, G, R1b-M269/L23, T, L, R1b-V88, R2 and Q, roughly in that order of frequency. By comparing Sardinian and Lebanese DNA, it can be estimated that the Sardinians have inherited between 16% and 24% of their Y-DNA from the Phoenicians (see details).

Sikeliot
05-29-2017, 10:31 PM
http://oi48.tinypic.com/2e1hw2c.jpg

Trapani and Palermo should be flipped here. Trapani is very predominantly R1b, Palermo is more J2. Also no way is Ragusa mostly I1, they are more E1b.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:31 PM
More likely Hellenized Thracians and Scythians.. Bulgaria and Romania today have a very diverse R1a but none to the "young" group.
A Thracian was found to be R1a-Z93 so maybe

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:41 PM
the three haplogroups associated with the Kura-Araxes culture. Although little data is available at present about deep clades in Crete or Aegean Greece, the parts of Italy that were colonised by Ionic and Doric Greeks, notably Sicily, Calabria and Basilicata, possess substantial percentages of typically Caucasian haplogroups, such as G2a-L297, J1-Z1828 and J2a-L581, as well as considerable levels of Middle Eastern and Caucasian autosomal admixture by European standards. In fact, it seems that many branches of J2a (e.g. M319, Z7671, F3133, Z6046, L581) may have expanded from the South Caucasus from the Chalcolithic onwards. The presence of these haplogroups and admixtures in southern Italy almost certainly represent Kura-Araxes ancestry inherited from Minoan Greeks from the Aegean islands.

Kelmendasi
05-29-2017, 10:42 PM
J2a from Romans:
Z435 was formed about 3,600 years ago and has a TMRCA of only 3,100 years (± 300 years). The latter corresponds roughly to the timing of the invasion of Italian peninsula by Italic tribes from the Alps. Z435 has numerous subclades of its own, and most have been identified in central Italy. This could either mean that Z435 was one of the founding Italic lineages, or that it was already in Italy and was assimilated by the Italic tribes. The PF5456 subclade is barely 2500 years old, and would have emerged and propagated after the founding of Rome. Outside Italy, it is now found in such varied places as Portugal, Spain, France, Britain, Belgium, southern Germany, Austria, Bulgaria, Tunisia or Lebanon, all regions colonised by the Romans. Z2177, another subclade of Z435, is a bit under 3,000 years old. It has various subclades of its own which are scattered today around Italy (northern Italy, Tuscany, Latium, Sicily, Sardinia) and in places like Switzerland, south-west Germany, Britain, Spain, Romania, Greece, Turkey and Syria - also all these regions were part of the Roman Empire. Italy has by far the highest concentration of Z2177 of any country.

Voskos
05-30-2017, 02:47 PM
Subhumans

troll

Lavrentis
05-30-2017, 02:51 PM
:confused:

This dumbass doesn't know what she's talking about. Ignore her. She's not even Greek btw, she's Armenian.

Lavrentis
05-30-2017, 02:54 PM
There were no "Ancient" Albanians, you dumbass. Waves after waves of Greek tribes colonized Italy since 1700 BC. Italy was ruled by the Cretan king Saturn and was called Saturnia.

Where are the "Albanian" archeological artifacts in Sicily, any traces of "Albanian" script? nowhere except in your fantasy.

Den exeis varethei na mas ntropiazeis me tis malakies pou les? Voulwse to.

Voskos
05-30-2017, 03:53 PM
Then it is probably from Hellenized West Asians who came to Sicily when it was Byzantine. Probably Armenians, Persians, etc.

what about the possibility of your haplogroup simply being an indigenous sicilian bronze age clade?