Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes (Schuenemann et al. 2017)

[Kamal900]

The paper is finally out:

Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods (https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694)

Egypt, located on the isthmus of Africa, is an ideal region to study historical population dynamics due to its geographic location and documented interactions with ancient civilizations in Africa, Asia and Europe. Particularly, in the first millennium BCE Egypt endured foreign domination leading to growing numbers of foreigners living within its borders possibly contributing genetically to the local population. Here we present 90 mitochondrial genomes as well as genome-wide data sets from three individuals obtained from Egyptian mummies. The samples recovered from Middle Egypt span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period. Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.

[...]

On a more local scale, we aim to study changes and continuities in the genetic makeup of the ancient inhabitants of the Abusir el-Meleq community (Fig. 1), since all sampled remains derive from this community in Middle Egypt and have been radiocarbon dated to the late New Kingdom to the Roman Period (cal. 1388BCE–426CE, Supplementary Data 1). In particular, we seek to determine if the inhabitants of this settlement were affected at the genetic level by foreign conquest and domination, especially during the Ptolemaic (332–30BCE) and Roman (30BCE–395CE) Periods.

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/images/w926/ncomms15694-f1.jpg

[...]

Analysis of mitochondrial genomes
The 90 mitochondrial genomes fulfilling our criteria (>10-fold coverage and <3% contamination) were grouped into three temporal categories based on their radiocarbon dates (Supplementary Data 1), corresponding to Pre-Ptolemaic Periods (n=44), the Ptolemaic Period (n=27) and the Roman Period (n=19) (Supplementary Data 1). To test for genetic differentiation and homogeneity we compared haplogroup composition, calculated FST-statistics28 and applied a test for population continuity29 (Supplementary Table 2, Supplementary Data 3,4) on mitochondrial genome data from the three ancient and two modern-day populations from Egypt and Ethiopia, published by Pagani and colleagues17, including 100 modern Egyptian and 125 modern Ethiopian samples (Fig. 3a). We furthermore included data from the El-Hayez oasis published by Kujanová and colleagues30. We observe highly similar haplogroup profiles between the three ancient groups (Fig. 3a), supported by low FST values (<0.05) and P values >0.1 for the continuity test. Modern Egyptians share this profile but in addition show a marked increase of African mtDNA lineages L0–L4 up to 20% (consistent with nuclear estimates of 80% non-African ancestry reported in Pagani et al.17). Genetic continuity between ancient and modern Egyptians cannot be ruled out by our formal test despite this sub-Saharan African influx, while continuity with modern Ethiopians17, who carry >60% African L lineages, is not supported (Supplementary Data 5). To further test genetic affinities and shared ancestry with modern-day African and West Eurasian populations we performed a principal component analysis (PCA) based on haplogroup frequencies and Multidimensional Scaling of pairwise genetic distances. We find that all three ancient Egyptian groups cluster together (Fig. 3b), supporting genetic continuity across our 1,300-year transect. Both analyses reveal higher affinities with modern populations from the Near East and the Levant compared to modern Egyptians (Fig. 3b,c). The affinity to the Middle East finds further support by the Y-chromosome haplogroups of the three individuals for which genome-wide data was obtained, two of which could be assigned to the Middle-Eastern haplogroup J, and one to haplogroup E1b1b1 common in North Africa (Supplementary Table 3). However, comparative data from a contemporary population under Roman rule in Asia Minor, from the Roman city Ağlasun today in Turkey31, did not reveal a closer relationship to the ancient Egyptians from the Roman period (Fig. 3b,c).

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/images/w926/ncomms15694-f3.jpg

[...]

Population genetic analysis of nuclear DNA
On the nuclear level we merged the SNP data of our three ancient individuals with 2,367 modern individuals34,35 and 294 ancient genomes36 and performed PCA on the joined data set. We found the ancient Egyptian samples falling distinct from modern Egyptians, and closer towards Near Eastern and European samples (Fig. 4a, Supplementary Fig. 3, Supplementary Table 5). In contrast, modern Egyptians are shifted towards sub-Saharan African populations. Model-based clustering using ADMIXTURE37 (Fig. 4b, Supplementary Fig. 4) further supports these results and reveals that the three ancient Egyptians differ from modern Egyptians by a relatively larger Near Eastern genetic component, in particular a component found in Neolithic Levantine ancient individuals36 (Fig. 4b). In contrast, a substantially larger sub-Saharan African component, found primarily in West-African Yoruba, is seen in modern Egyptians compared to the ancient samples. In both PCA and ADMIXTURE analyses, we did not find significant differences between the three ancient samples, despite two of them having nuclear contamination estimates over 5%, which indicates no larger impact of modern DNA contamination. We used outgroup f3-statistics38 (Fig. 5a,b) for the ancient and modern Egyptians to measure shared genetic drift with other ancient and modern populations, using Mbuti as outgroup. We find that ancient Egyptians are most closely related to Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in the Levant, as well as to Neolithic Anatolian and European populations (Fig. 5a,b). When comparing this pattern with modern Egyptians, we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested (Fig. 5b), likely due to the additional African component in the modern population observed above. By computing f3-statistics38, we determined whether modern Egyptians could be modelled as a mixture of ancient Egyptian and other populations. Our results point towards sub-Saharan African populations as the missing component (Fig. 5c), confirming the results of the ADMIXTURE analysis. We replicated the results based on f3-statistics using only the least contaminated sample (with <1% contamination estimate) and find very similar results (Supplementary Fig. 5), confirming that the moderate levels of modern DNA contamination in two of our samples did not affect our analyses. Finally, we used two methods to estimate the fractions of sub-Saharan African ancestry in ancient and modern Egyptians. Both qpAdm35 and the f4-ratio test39 reveal that modern Egyptians inherit 8% more ancestry from African ancestors than the three ancient Egyptians do, which is also consistent with the ADMIXTURE results discussed above. Absolute estimates of African ancestry using these two methods in the three ancient individuals range from 6 to 15%, and in the modern samples from 14 to 21% depending on method and choice of reference populations (see Supplementary Note 1, Supplementary Fig. 6, Supplementary Tables 5–8). We then used ALDER40 to estimate the time of a putative pulse-like admixture event, which was estimated to have occurred 24 generations ago (700 years ago), consistent with previous results from Henn and colleagues16. While this result by itself does not exclude the possibility of much older and continuous gene flow from African sources, the substantially lower African component in our ∼2,000-year-old ancient samples suggests that African gene flow in modern Egyptians occurred indeed predominantly within the last 2,000 years.

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/images/w926/ncomms15694-f4.jpg

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/images/w926/ncomms15694-f5.jpg

Estimating phenotypes
Finally, we analysed several functionally relevant SNPs in sample JK2911, which had low contamination and relatively high coverage. This individual had a derived allele at the SLC24A5 locus, which contributes to lighter skin pigmentation and was shown to be at high frequency in Neolithic Anatolia41, consistent with the ancestral affinity shown above. Other relevant SNPs carry the ancestral allele, including HERC2 and LCT, which suggest dark-coloured eyes and lactose intolerance (Supplementary Table 9).


Discussion
This study demonstrates that the challenges of ancient DNA work on Egyptian mummies can be overcome with enrichment strategies followed by high-throughput DNA sequencing. The use of ancient DNA can greatly contribute towards a more accurate and refined understanding of Egypt’s population history. More specifically, it can supplement and serve as a corrective to archaeological and literary data that are often unevenly distributed across time, space and important constituents of social difference (such as gender and class) as well as modern genetic data from contemporary populations that may not be fully representative of past populations.

The archaeological site Abusir el-Meleq was inhabited from at least 3250BCE until about 700CE and was of great religious significance because of its active cult to Osiris, the god of the dead, which made it an attractive burial site for centuries2. Written sources indicate that by the third century BCE Abusir el-Meleq was at the centre of a wider region that comprised the northern part of the Herakleopolites province, and had close ties with the Fayum and the Memphite provinces, involving the transport of wheat, cattle-breeding, bee-keeping and quarrying42. In the early Roman Period, the site appears to have been the main centre in its own district42. Abusir el-Meleq’s proximity to, and close ties with, the Fayum are significant in the context of this study as the Fayum in particular saw a substantial growth in its population during the first hundred years of Ptolemaic rule, presumably as a result of Greek immigration33,43. Later, in the Roman Period, many veterans of the Roman army—who, initially at least, were not Egyptian but people from disparate cultural backgrounds—settled in the Fayum area after the completion of their service, and formed social relations and intermarried with local populations44. Importantly, there is evidence for foreign influence at Abusir el-Meleq. Individuals with Greek, Latin and Hebrew names are known to have lived at the site and several coffins found at the cemetery used Greek portrait image and adapted Greek statue types to suit ‘Egyptian’ burial practices2,45. The site’s first excavator, Otto Rubensohn, also found a Greek grave inscription in stone as well as a writing board inscribed in Greek46. Taken together with the multitude of Greek papyri that were written at the site, this evidence strongly suggests that at least some inhabitants of Abusir el-Meleq were literate in, and able to speak, Greek45. However, a general issue concerning the site is that several details of the context of the individuals analysed in this study were lost over time. All of the material was excavated by Rubensohn in the early twentieth century, whose main interest was to obtain literary papyri from cartonnage rather than to excavate human remains47. As is customary for the time, Rubensohn’s archaeological records are highly incomplete and many of the finds made by him were removed undocumented from their contexts. Furthermore, many of his excavation diaries and notes were destroyed during the Second World War19. This lack of context greatly diminishes the possibility of ‘thick description’ of the analysed individuals, at least in terms of their names, titles and materially expressed identity. However, the finds nevertheless hold much promise for a long-term study of population dynamics in ancient Egypt. Abusir el-Meleq is arguably one of the few sites in Egypt, for which such a vast number of individuals with such an extensive chronological spread are available for ancient DNA analysis. Although we only analysed mummified remains, there is little reason to believe that the burials Rubensohn excavated belonged exclusively to a group of prosperous inhabitants on the basis of the far published references to excavation diaries and Rubensohn’s preliminary reports that permit a basic reconstruction. Rather it seems arguable that the complete spectrum of society is represented, ranging from Late Period priests’ burials that stand out by virtue of their size and contents to simple inhumations that are buried with little to no grave goods2. The widespread mummification treatments in the Ptolemaic and Roman Periods in particular, leading to a decline in standards and costs48 and the generally modest appearance of many burials further supports this assessment.

By comparing ancient individuals from Abusir el-Meleq with modern Egyptian reference populations, we found an influx of sub-Saharan African ancestry after the Roman Period, which corroborates the findings by Henn and colleagues16. Further investigation would be needed to link this influx to particular historic processes. Possible causal factors include increased mobility down the Nile and increased long-distance commerce between sub-Saharan Africa and Egypt49. Trans-Saharan slave trade may have been particularly important as it moved between 6 and 7 million sub-Saharan slaves to Northern Africa over a span of some 1,250 years, reaching its high point in the nineteenth century50. However, we note that all our genetic data were obtained from a single site in Middle Egypt and may not be representative for all of ancient Egypt. It is possible that populations in the south of Egypt were more closely related to those of Nubia and had a higher sub-Saharan genetic component, in which case the argument for an influx of sub-Saharan ancestries after the Roman Period might only be partially valid and have to be nuanced. Throughout Pharaonic history there was intense interaction between Egypt and Nubia, ranging from trade to conquest and colonialism, and there is compelling evidence for ethnic complexity within households with Egyptian men marrying Nubian women and vice versa51,52,53. Clearly, more genetic studies on ancient human remains from southern Egypt and Sudan are needed before apodictic statements can be made.

The ancient DNA data revealed a high level of affinity between the ancient inhabitants of Abusir el-Meleq and modern populations from the Near East and the Levant. This finding is pertinent in the light of the hypotheses advanced by Pagani and colleagues, who estimated that the average proportion of non-African ancestry in Egyptians was 80% and dated the midpoint of this admixture event to around 750 years ago17. Our data seem to indicate close admixture and affinity at a much earlier date, which is unsurprising given the long and complex connections between Egypt and the Middle East. These connections date back to Prehistory and occurred at a variety of scales, including overland and maritime commerce, diplomacy, immigration, invasion and deportation54. Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant54.

Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated43,55, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society55. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society55. Especially in the Roman Period there may have been significant legal and social incentives to marry within one’s ethnic group, as individuals with Roman citizenship had to marry other Roman citizens to pass on their citizenship. Such policies are likely to have affected the intermarriage of Romans and non-Romans to a degree55. Additional genetic studies on ancient human remains from Egypt are needed with extensive geographical, social and chronological spread in order to expand our current picture in variety, accuracy and detail.

However, our results revise previous scepticism towards the DNA preservation in ancient Egyptian mummies due to climate conditions or mummification procedures8. The methodology presented here opens up promising avenues for future genetic research and can greatly contribute towards a more accurate and refined understanding of Egypt’s population history.

See? The ancient Egyptians were never Blacks.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

If only Afrocentrists had the education necessary to understand all of the words used in this document, and the attention span for it's format.

[Kamal900]

If only Afrocentrists had the education necessary to understand all of the words used in this document, and the attention span for it's format.

They think that It's a White man's conspiracy in putting the Black man down or something. They had gone apeshit about it on Youtube, rofl. As I have suspected it, the ancient Egyptians cluster the closest to the near east and the Levantine populations like Palestinians, Syrians and etc. I'll sure post some autosomal Gedmatch DNA once they're out.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

They think that It's a White man's conspiracy in putting the Black man down or something. They had gone apeshit about it on Youtube, rofl. As I have suspected it, the ancient Egyptians cluster the closest to the near east and the Levantine populations like Palestinians, Syrians and etc. I'll sure post some autosomal Gedmatch DNA once they're out.

This is really a no brained, even reading the Torah it is stated that when Joseph went to Egypt and his brothers finally saw him again they assumed he was just any other Egyptian not recognizing him. Now wether this story is real or not doesn't matter, the fact is that it made sense for the author to write this and made sense to the audience hearing it. This points to a physical similarity close enough between south levantines and Egyptians. Of course the Afrocentrist dummies also say the ancient Jews were black too lmao.

[Smeagol]

Confirms what everyone who wasn't a retarded afro-nut already knew. Logically this should put an end to afrocentrist claims on ancient Egypt once and for all but they'll probably just call it white supremacist propaganda like everything else that proves them wrong.

[Kamal900]

Confirms what everyone who wasn't a retarded afro-nut already knew. Logically this should put an end to afrocentrist claims on ancient Egypt once and for all but they'll probably just call it white supremacist propaganda like everything else that that proves them wrong.

They do claim that it's the White man's conspiracy against the Black man. I doubt that the Afrocentric lunatics are going to stop.

[Smeagol]

They do claim that it's the White man's conspiracy against the Black man. I doubt that the Afrocentric lunatics are going to stop.

Yeah they really are hopeless. The problem is some libtards are actually trying to spread this kind of propaganda in schools though.

[Kamal900]

Yeah they really are hopeless. The problem is some libtards are actually trying to spread this kind of propaganda in schools though.

And in Black History month propaganda as well, lol.

[wvwvw]

You have already posted that like..100 times;

[Kamal900]

You have already posted that like..100 times;

That was just the abstract. The full report just been released today.

[Petalpusher]

You have already posted that like..100 times;

It's the actual paper this time.

So much things to comment!

[LoLeL]

This paper proves my theory:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170530173009/https://images.encyclopediadramatica.rs/1/15/Caesar_julious_nigger.jpg

[Kamal900]

It's the actual paper this time.

So much things to comment!

What do you think on the idea that the ancient Egyptians cluster the closest to the neolithic and early Bronze age Levantines as do today's Egyptians and Arabians?

[nightrider+]

So the decline of Egypt cannot be attributed to race mixing.

[RN97]

It also debunks Varg's theory about the red haired "nordic" Egyptians lol. Afro-centrists will never mention this as this theory debunks both "we wuz kangz" nordicists and afro-centrists, yet they somehow still will call this part of a "white conspiracy" when it clearly says that they were like modern near easterners who aren't white or European. If this was a whitey conspiracy, they surely would have said they're like modern Europeans....

[Kamal900]

So the decline of Egypt cannot be attributed to race mixing.

Egypt was in decline after the Sea Peoples raid of the near east in the 13th century BCE, and Egypt was never the same ever since.

[Voskos]

so basically the f3 test shows that modern egyptians are the closest modern population to the ancients. which disproves the theories about total population replacement.

[Hithaeglir]

Nice paper,but this wasn't already quite known,that the ancient Egyptians didn't have much sub saharan admixture at least at the peak of their civilization?

[Kamal900]

Nice paper,but this wasn't already quite known,that the ancient Egyptians didn't have much sub saharan admixture at least at the peak of their civilization?

They may have has a little bit due to their interactions with the ancient Nubians in the South, but what makes today's Egyptians distinct from their ancestors is the admixture of African females 2000 years ago.

[Kamal900]

so basically the f3 test shows that modern egyptians are the closest modern population to the ancients. which disproves the theories about total population replacement.

Pretty much. They and the Arabians today cluster the closest to the ancient Natufians.

[Hithaeglir]

They may have has a little bit due to their interactions with the ancient Nubians in the South, but what makes today's Egyptians distinct from their ancestors is the admixture of African females 2000 years ago.

Yeah i read it.

[Petalpusher]

What do you think on the idea that the ancient Egyptians cluster the closest to the neolithic and early Bronze age Levantines as do today's Egyptians and Arabians?

They have even less African than modern Levant, but maybe no less basal eurasian. Besides the non surprise of them not being African at all, it makes sense, geographically the two places are next to each other without borders so they might have been the same people for a long time. It definetly shows the African is relatively recent in the region, even it's not really high in the Levant, it was even lower before, surely in NW Africa too.

Genetically they are like the ancient Anatolians without the Euro HG (that was in Anatolia already) but never reached the Levant and Egypt, or much less. Or Natufians with a tad more Iran_N like admixture

[Óttar]

They think that It's a White man's conspiracy in putting the Black man down or something. They had gone apeshit about it on Youtube, rofl. As I have suspected it, the ancient Egyptians cluster the closest to the near east and the Levantine populations like Palestinians, Syrians and etc. I'll sure post some autosomal Gedmatch DNA once they're out.
There was a Muslim girl in my Sanskrit class who was convinced that the reason why ancient Egyptian antiquities were missing noses and arms was because White people went around defacing them to hide evidence that they were Black. :picard1:

[PegLegPeter]

it doesnt help that cuck media companies help portray the afrocentric fantasies by portraying them as black.

[Shahqulu]

Very nice genetic study.

[Smeagol]

They have even less African than modern Levant, but maybe no less basal eurasian. Besides the non surprise of them not being African at all, it makes sense, geographically the two places are next to each other without borders so they might have been the same people for a long time. It definetly shows the African is relatively recent in the region, even it's not really high in the Levant, it was even lower before, surely in NW Africa too.

Genetically they are like the ancient Anatolians without the Euro HG (that was in Anatolia already) but never reached the Levant and Egypt, or much less. Or Natufians with a tad more Iran_N like admixture

So basically out of all modern populations they're closest to Levantines?

[Kamal900]

So basically out of all modern populations they're closest to Levantines?

Southern Levantines, yes.

[Smeagol]

Southern Levantines, yes.

I'd also like to see some Old Kingdom DNA.

[Kamal900]

I'd also like to see some Old Kingdom DNA.

Hopefully, they'll do that one day.

[Smeagol]

Hopefully, they'll do that one day.

I wonder if the Hyksos made any difference. I don't think they settled in Egypt in big enough numbers though.

[Kamal900]

I wonder if the Hyksos made any difference. I don't think they settled in Egypt in big enough numbers though.

There was some genetic contribution, but overall, the Egyptians are descendants of the 2nd wave Levantine migrants that had some Iran-neolithic admixture in contrast to later Levantines.

[Ashanti]

Aframs that claim ancient Egypt do it for two reason; they're ignorant of their own ancestor's civilizations (Timbuktu, Songhai, Ghana, etc) and they want to trigger whitey.

Despite my significant Egyptian ancestry I still hesitate to claim ancient Egypt. Amazing civilization ruined by the tumult of the Internet.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Not even a drop of SSA in ancient egyptian samples, such a big disappointment for we wuz kingz and shiet kin......I'm sure they will console themselves with few YT videos with pompous title and large quantity of conspiracy theory to challenge dna results.

[Dema]

Hail to the king baby :cool:

[Enflamme]

There was some genetic contribution, but overall, the Egyptians are descendants of the 2nd wave Levantine migrants that had some Iran-neolithic admixture in contrast to later Levantines.

So the ancient Egyptians were close to the "old" Europeans and people from the "old" Levant, very different of these modern Egyptians who, like the northern Africans, have a certain percentage of negro blood.

The European race once inhabited the Middle East, before the interbreeding with negroes.

Gilgamesh900 are you a kind of ancient egyptian?

[Dema]

I said hail to the fucking king baby!




http://www.guardians.net/egypt/sphinx/images/sphinx-front-wa-2001.jpg

[Anglojew]

Exactly. The ancient ME was white.

[wvwvw]

Exactly. The ancient ME was white.

And from 1200 to 900 BC Palestine was Greek

[KMack]

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/13414390_1735816066656689_1270685731_n.jpg?ig_cach e_key=MTI2ODQ4Nzg1ODY1NzQ0NDM0NQ%3D%3D.2

[wvwvw]

So the ancient Egyptians were close to the "old" Europeans and people from the "old" Levant, very different of these modern Egyptians who, like the northern Africans, have a certain percentage of negro blood.

The European race once inhabited the Middle East, before the interbreeding with negroes.

Gilgamesh900 are you a kind of ancient egyptian?

Some Egyptian dynasties were of negro blood. Egyptians have been interracting with blacks for millenia. There's nothing wrong with having African blood, especially when you're Egyptian.

[wvwvw]

So the ancient Egyptians were close to the "old" Europeans and people from the "old" Levant, very different of these modern Egyptians who, like the northern Africans, have a certain percentage of negro blood.

The European race once inhabited the Middle East, before the interbreeding with negroes.

Gilgamesh900 are you a kind of ancient egyptian?

The Egyptians had diverse origins even from antiquity. Modern Egyptians may have drifted a bit genetically but they still look awfully similar to Ancient Egyptians as far as phenotypes go.

[Norse]

Told you so.

Nordicism wins again.

[RN97]

Told you so.

Nordicism wins again.

How, lol?

[Kelmendasi]

The Ydna haplogroups found were: J1-P58>>Z2313(780-560BCE), J2b1-PF7330(780-560BCE) and E-V22(97-2BCE). I waz Pharaohz n' sheit ;)

[Kelmendasi]

According to Anthrogenica user and J1 admin Agamemnon, the J1-P58>>Z2313 could in fact be ZS241 as Z2313 is the ancestor of ZS241, he also believes that it could be due to Hyksos influence in the region. It's interesting to see how close modern Egyptians are to these samples in PCA.


http://i.imgur.com/IARPGUA.png

[Sikeliot]

According to Anthrogenica user and J1 admin Agamemnon, the J1-P58>>Z2313 could in fact be ZS241 as Z2313 is the ancestor of ZS241, he also believes that it could be due to Hyksos influence in the region. It's interesting to see how close modern Egyptians are to these samples in PCA.


http://i.imgur.com/IARPGUA.png

Where is this PCA plot from? I cannot tell which blue triangles are South Italy vs Albania, but I am guessing the ones nearer Cyprus are South Italy.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Perhaps as annoying as Afrocentrism, now there's a bunch of people on the Alt-Right who think this paper stated ancient Egyptians were "white/European". :icon_lol:

Btw, these Israeli Negev Bedouins(Bedouin_B) are likely the best proxy for what ancient Egyptians looked like.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_%28GPO%29_-_A_Bedouin_Celebration.jpg/1200px-Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_%28GPO%29_-_A_Bedouin_Celebration.jpg
("muh 3% literacy ancient civilizations")

Although I will say, this isn't 100% conclusive. You need genomes from 2500-2000 BC for it to be 100% conclusive, these genomes are all post-Hyksos and Libyan invasions, could still be the first Egyptians had significant SSA, but based on their own depictions I doubt it.

[XenophobicPrussian]

According to Anthrogenica user and J1 admin Agamemnon, the J1-P58>>Z2313 could in fact be ZS241 as Z2313 is the ancestor of ZS241, he also believes that it could be due to Hyksos influence in the region. It's interesting to see how close modern Egyptians are to these samples in PCA.


http://i.imgur.com/IARPGUA.png
lol, these ancient Egyptians aren't close to modern Egyptians. They completely lack SSA save for the later one. They're closest to Levantine Bedouins. That PCA doesn't have SSA samples on it, this is the main PCA of the paper that does:

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/images/w926/ncomms15694-f4.jpg

I've been saying for awhile ancient Egyptians were likely closest to modern Levantines rather than modern Egyptians.

[Sikeliot]

Closest to ancient Egyptian would have been Copts. I don't see why we should assume anyone else is closer. Or even modern Egyptians but with less SSA.

[Kelmendasi]

Where is this PCA plot from? I cannot tell which blue triangles are South Italy vs Albania, but I am guessing the ones nearer Cyprus are South Italy.
Yh the ones nearer to Cyprus are South Italian, not sure why they did it like that but meh

[Kelmendasi]

lol, these ancient Egyptians aren't close to modern Egyptians. They completely lack SSA save for the later one. They're closest to Levantine Bedouins. That PCA doesn't have SSA samples on it, this is the main PCA of the paper that does:

[IG]https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/images/w926/ncomms15694-f4.jpg[/IMG]

I've been saying for awhile ancient Egyptians were likely closest to modern Levantines rather than modern Egyptians.
JK2134 was pretty close to them on the PCA I posted, yh they do seem more like Levantines

[XenophobicPrussian]

Closest to ancient Egyptian would have been Copts. I don't see why we should assume anyone else is closer. Or even modern Egyptians but with less SSA.
There's no reason for assumptions. There's an admixture graph and PCA plot from this paper. Copts aren't on it. They're closest to Negev Bedouins, Yemeni Jews, Jordanians/Saudis.

[RN97]

Closest to ancient Egyptian would have been Copts. I don't see why we should assume anyone else is closer. Or even modern Egyptians but with less SSA.

No dude. They were like the Bedouins XP posted without the SSA. Copts still have SSA, IDK how much, but too much.
XP literally posted the PCA from the study showing them to be distant from modern Egysheeeitians that have too much SSA right before your post.

[RN97]

Perhaps as annoying as Afrocentrism, now there's a bunch of people on the Alt-Right who think this paper stated ancient Egyptians were "white/European". :icon_lol:

Btw, these Israeli Negev Bedouins(Bedouin_B) are likely the best proxy for what ancient Egyptians looked like.

[IMommons/thumb/5/5a/Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_%28GPO%29_-_A_Bedouin_Celebration.jpg/1200px-Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_%28GPO%29_-_A_Bedouin_Celebration.jpg[/IMG]
("muh 3% literacy ancient civilizations")

Although I will say, this isn't 100% conclusive. You need genomes from 2500-2000 BC for it to be 100% conclusive, these genomes are all post-Hyksos and Libyan invasions, could still be the first Egyptians had significant SSA, but based on their own depictions I doubt it.

It's the fault of some newspapers also. One of them had a headline something like "Ancient Egyptians closer to Europeans and Turks than modern Egyptians". Why the heck would they do that? They should just have said they're less SSA and more something that would be basal-like that people understand. More Levantine/ near eastern or something like that. Newspapers are dumb as fuck.

[Grab the Gauge]

Perhaps as annoying as Afrocentrism, now there's a bunch of people on the Alt-Right who think this paper stated ancient Egyptians were "white/European".

However, they conveniently haven't released King Tut's (R1b) DNA info.

[Sikeliot]

Yh the ones nearer to Cyprus are South Italian, not sure why they did it like that but meh

Cypriots on recent plots look less Near Eastern than on older ones. Here, they fill most of the gap between South Italy/Sicily and Levant.

[XenophobicPrussian]

It's the fault of some newspapers also. One of them had a headline something like "Ancient Egyptians closer to Europeans and Turks than modern Egyptians". Why the heck would they do that? They should just have said they're less SSA and more something that would be basal-like that people understand. More Levantine/ near eastern or something like that. Newspapers are dumb as fuck.
Yeah, they have no idea what they're talking about. They likely got that from the "Anatolian Neolithic Farmer" admixture, which every MENA population has, not only these ancients. It's like those tabloid articles that said "Irish come from Turkey" when the first ENF genomes came out.

Also correction: ancient Egyptians are closer to Bedouin_A than Bedouin_B(and Jordanians/Palestinians over Saudis, basically Bedouin A are more northern/Euro/ANE/CHG shifted but SSA admixed) on the PCA, but Bedouin_B(Negev desert Bedouins) are the ones without SSA, like the ancient Egyptians, but still more Basal. The best proxy based on PCA is Palestinians/Jordanians but they still have SSA while the ancient Egyptians didn't.

[wvwvw]

It's the fault of some newspapers also. One of them had a headline something like "Ancient Egyptians closer to Europeans and Turks than modern Egyptians". Why the heck would they do that? They should just have said they're less SSA and more something that would be basal-like that people understand. More Levantine/ near eastern or something like that. Newspapers are dumb as fuck.

The did not say Turks, they said closer to Ancient Neolithic samples from Turkey. Which is a gross anachronism since there was no Turkey until 1920. That region was part of Greece and populated by Greeks since Minoan times. They should just have called it Asia Minor.

There is no such thing as "Ancient Turks". Turks genocided the indigenous people and repopulated the western region with people from the EaST where the Turkish ethnogenesis took place.

[XenophobicPrussian]

The did not say Turks, they said closer to Ancient Neolithic samples from Turkey. Which is a gross anachronism since there was no Turkey until 1920. That part was part of Greece and populated by Greeks since Minoan times.
They still aren't closer to Neolithic Anatolians(and that wouldn't make them "European" like some news articles claimed), they have admixture from them, around 20-30%, like every other modern MENA pop.

[RN97]

Yeah, they have no idea what they're talking about. They likely got that from the "Anatolian Neolithic Farmer" admixture, which every MENA population has, not only these ancients. It's like those tabloid articles that said "Irish come from Turkey" when the first ENF genomes came out.

Also correction: ancient Egyptians are closer to Bedouin_A than Bedouin_B(and Jordanians/Palestinians over Saudis, basically Bedouin A are more northern/Euro/ANE/CHG shifted but SSA admixed) on the PCA, but Bedouin_B(Negev desert Bedouins) are the ones without SSA, like the ancient Egyptians, but still more Basal. The best proxy based on PCA is Palestinians/Jordanians but they still have SSA while the ancient Egyptians didn't.

I don't really believe in the idea that if WHG/ ANE balances SSA and they end up in the same place on a PCA plot they're the same. There aren't really any pop. that resemble them exactly, but some Bedouins are probably the closest.

[RN97]

The did not say Turks, they said closer to Ancient Neolithic samples from Turkey. Which is a gross anachronism since there was no Turkey until 1920. That region was part of Greece and populated by Greeks since Minoan times. They should just have called it Asia Minor.

There is no such thing as "Ancient Turks". Turks genocided the indigenous people and repopulated the western region with people from the EaST where the Turkish ethnogenesis took place.

No they literally said Turkish.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4555292/Study-mummies-reveals-Turkish-European.html
http://news.sky.com/story/egyptian-mummies-have-european-and-turkish-dna-scientists-10898867
http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/810888/ancient-egyptian-dna-genetics-turkish-european-african

[wvwvw]

They still aren't closer to Neolithic Anatolians(and that wouldn't make them "European" like some news articles claimed), they have admixture from them, around 20-30%, like every other modern MENA pop.

The Ancient Greeks came from Cyprus/Palestine (ev13), Greece (J2) and Iberia (R1b). Those haplogroups of course evolved in Greece so that makes them indigenous. The Minoans pre-2000 BC for example were J2 and after 1800 BC they were like all Greeks of mixed lineages Ev13, J2 and R1b after the Pelasgians and other Hellenic tribes arrive to the island. Only 1/3 of Greeks came from the Steppes.

The only Europeans who colonized Egypt and there were colonies extant still in Herodotus time were the Greeks. The Egyptian findings confirm the Greeks myths where Zeus takes Io to Egypt and her descendants were the Kings of the 15th Hyksos dynasty of Egypt which included Epaphus and Apis.

[Kamal900]

Yeah, they have no idea what they're talking about. They likely got that from the "Anatolian Neolithic Farmer" admixture, which every MENA population has, not only these ancients. It's like those tabloid articles that said "Irish come from Turkey" when the first ENF genomes came out.

Also correction: ancient Egyptians are closer to Bedouin_A than Bedouin_B(and Jordanians/Palestinians over Saudis, basically Bedouin A are more northern/Euro/ANE/CHG shifted but SSA admixed) on the PCA, but Bedouin_B(Negev desert Bedouins) are the ones without SSA, like the ancient Egyptians, but still more Basal. The best proxy based on PCA is Palestinians/Jordanians but they still have SSA while the ancient Egyptians didn't.

Well said. I would like to see their gedmatch results soon.

[Kelmendasi]

Well said. I would like to see their gedmatch results soon.
You can see them at anthrogenica
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10771-Ancient-Egyptian-mummy-genomes

[Kelmendasi]

The Ancient Greeks came from Cyprus/Palestine (ev13), Greece (J2) and Iberia (R1b). Those haplogroups of course evolved in Greece so that makes them indigenous. The Minoans pre-2000 BC for example were J2 and after 1800 BC they were like all Greeks of mixed lineages Ev13, J2 and R1b after the Pelasgians and other Hellenic tribes arrive to the island. Only 1/3 of Greeks came from the Steppes.

The only Europeans who colonized Egypt and there were colonies extant still in Herodotus time were the Greeks. The Egyptian findings confirm the Greeks myths where Zeus takes Io to Egypt and her descendants were the Kings of the 15th Hyksos dynasty of Egypt which included Epaphus and Apis.
Explain the J1 then. Pelasgians supposedly came from Egypt so maybe they had J1 :confused:

[wvwvw]

Explain the J1 then. Pelasgians supposedly came from Egypt so maybe they had J1 :confused:

Depends from which period these samples are from. The 15th dynasty was almost entirely Greek but the 19th was a coalition mostly Greek but also Phoenicians and Hittites.

[Kelmendasi]

Depends from which period these samples are from. The 15th dynasty was almost entirely Greek but the 19th was a coalition mostly Greek but also Phoenicians and Hittites.
The J2b1 and J1 sample date back to the 25th and 26th dynasty of Egypt basically they both are from Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt

[wvwvw]

Explain the J1 then. Pelasgians supposedly came from Egypt so maybe they had J1 :confused:

No silly the Pelasgians and the Hellenes were one and the same. Those in the north became Dorians, and those in the south Arcadians (Pelasgians). Pelasgian mean city dweller because they were the first Greeks to dwell in cities and Arcas their king build the first cities in Greece.

[Newsboy]

Nothing surprising.

Egyptians have SSA admixture, but in line with other North Africans. Majority are passable as Maghrebis and Southern Levantines.

[Sikeliot]

Raine thinks everyone was Greek...

[Kelmendasi]

JK2911-Ydna-J2b1:

Eurogenes k36

Arabian 28.78
Basque 1.04
East_Med 21.93
Iberian 0.62
Indo-Chinese 0.49
Near_Eastern 26.96
North_African 7.39
Northeast_African 6.50
Oceanian 0.32
West_Med 5.97

Eurogenes K13

East_Med 45.52
Red_Sea 25.19
West_Med 16.70
Northeast_African 5.96
West_Asian 3.77
East_Asian 1.23
Amerindian 0.88
Sub-Saharan 0.76

Eurogenes k15

East_Med 43.35
Red_Sea 23.67
West_Med 16.30
Northeast_African 7.62
Atlantic 4.23
West_Asian 3.48
Southeast_Asian 1.30
Amerindian 0.06

[wvwvw]

Raine thinks everyone was Greek...

No Raine thinks the Kings of the 15th and 19th dynasty were Greeks because all Ancient historians said so, and they are confirmed by Egyptian annals as well by archeology. It is a fact that Epaphus came from Greece and was a descendant of Io.

http://img.didim.guide/qluster/gal/img/GUI/423_a3bfac96dd.jpg
Epaphus was the son of Zeus and Io; When he grew up, he became the king of Egypt. Moreover, he was considered to have been the founder of the city of Memphis, Egypt; his wife was also called Memphis and the two of them had a daughter, Libya.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/greek-mythology.php?deity=EPAPHUS

[Kamal900]

Nothing surprising.

Egyptians have SSA admixture, but in line with other North Africans. Majority are passable as Maghrebis and Southern Levantines.

Agreed, and the people today that cluster to the ancient Natufians are the Egyptians and Arabians.

[Kamal900]

JK2911-Ydna-J2b1:

Eurogenes k36

Arabian 28.78
Basque 1.04
East_Med 21.93
Iberian 0.62
Indo-Chinese 0.49
Near_Eastern 26.96
North_African 7.39
Northeast_African 6.50
Oceanian 0.32
West_Med 5.97

Eurogenes K13

East_Med 45.52
Red_Sea 25.19
West_Med 16.70
Northeast_African 5.96
West_Asian 3.77
East_Asian 1.23
Amerindian 0.88
Sub-Saharan 0.76

Eurogenes k15

East_Med 43.35
Red_Sea 23.67
West_Med 16.30
Northeast_African 7.62
Atlantic 4.23
West_Asian 3.48
Southeast_Asian 1.30
Amerindian 0.06

Can you post their oracle results?

[Kelmendasi]

Iran Neolithic K6

JK2134-Ydna-J1-P58

0.00% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
0.00% East_Asian
25.22% Iran_Neolithic
61.91% Natufian
8.00% WHG
4.86% Sub_Saharan


JK2888-Ydna-E-V22

0.00% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
0.01% East_Asian
35.25% Iran_Neolithic
54.16% Natufian
2.36% WHG
8.22% Sub_Saharan

JK2911-Ydna-J2b1


2.31% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
1.94% East_Asian
24.59% Iran_Neolithic
57.60% Natufian
6.64% WHG
6.93% Sub_Saharan

[Kelmendasi]

Can you post their oracle results?
Will try and find them :)

[Kelmendasi]

The samples seem too unstable for oracles I think

[Insuperable]

Well said. I would like to see their gedmatch results soon.

I have just read on that Anthrogenica link which Kelmendasi posted the number of snps used. I don't think 4k or 15k snps are that suitable for very good Gedmatch analysis.

[Kelmendasi]

I have just read on that Anthrogenica link which Kelmendasi posted the number of snps used. I don't think 4k or 15k snps are that suitable for very good Gedmatch analysis.
Yh, they seem too unstable

[Voskos]

However, they conveniently haven't released King Tut's (R1b) DNA info.

It's indeed quite shocking to see so many ancient R1b samples being swept under the carpet.

[wvwvw]

So that sample is 45% East Med
and 16% West Med

How do we know that mumie is not of mixed linage. Perseas for example made a politically marriage and married an Ethiopian princess daughter of Kheperkheprure.

How much West Med do Beduins score?

The Greeks did score West Med and were R1b as well as J2 and Ev13

[Kelmendasi]

So that sample is 45% East Med
and 16% West Med

How do we know that mumie is not of mixed linage. Perseas for example made a politically marriage and married an Ethiopian princess daughter of Pharao.

How much West Med do Beduins score?

The Greeks did score West Med and were R1b as well as J2 and Ev13
J2b1 judging by it's distribution and where it has been found seems to be linked with J1-P58 in terms of ancient populations that carried it. They were found together in another site in Lebanon/Phoenicia as well. Ydna doesn't usually correlate with admix unless the Ydna entering you is really recent. They could be of mixed Hyksos and native origin

[Enflamme]

Some Egyptian dynasties were of negro blood. Egyptians have been interracting with blacks for millenia. There's nothing wrong with having African blood, especially when you're Egyptian.


You do well to specify "CERTAIN", so not all Egyptians were mixed with Negro/Nigger/Nègre/Bamboula/Chocolat blood



"There's nothing wrong with having African blood, especially when you're Egyptian"


This is not an argument. In addition, miscegenation tends to the lowering of civilization (we see the results in Egypt),and tends to the drop in IQ, intelligence.

The anti-racist and Afrocentrism dogma is beginning to collapse.

[Kelmendasi]

Oracle is shown here http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10771-Ancient-Egyptian-mummy-genomes/page6, but I don't think they are too accurate due to how unstable the samples are

[Kamal900]

Oracle is shown here http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10771-Ancient-Egyptian-mummy-genomes/page6, but I don't think they are too accurate due to how unstable the samples are

They do look that they need more work to be done on them, but the oracle seems to be definitive which shows that they cluster the closest to Bedouins, Palestinians and other southern Levantines and Arabians.

[wvwvw]

You do well to specify "CERTAIN", so not all Egyptians were mixed with Negro/Nigger/Nègre/Bamboula/Chocolat blood



"There's nothing wrong with having African blood, especially when you're Egyptian"


This is not an argument. In addition, miscegenation tends to the lowering of civilization (we see the results in Egypt),and tends to the drop in IQ, intelligence.

The anti-racist and Afrocentrism dogma is beginning to collapse.

Stop being so racist

Egyptians iq dropped because of Islam not because they have mixed with blacks.

I recall a German minister who once said that the Muslims are causing the iq of Germans to drop. And he was right.

[Kelmendasi]

They do look that they need more work to be done on them, but the oracle seems to be definitive which shows that they cluster the closest to Bedouins, Palestinians and other southern Levantines and Arabians.
I think this proves my belief that a lot of "Arab" levantines and other "Arabs" from the fertile crescent are just Semeticised natives since they are autosomally close to the ancient pre-Semetic groups

[Kamal900]

I think this proves my belief that a lot of "Arab" levantines and other "Arabs" from the fertile crescent are just Semeticised natives since they are autosomally close to the ancient pre-Semetic groups

The Semitic languages originated in the Levant, but the genetic components in many Levantines are indeed shared with the AE's who weren't Semitic, and some groups of west Asia like Armenians and Iranians espicially since a good portion of the genetic components in many genetically isolated groups of the Levant tend to have high Anatolian admixture in contrast to the Arabians and Egyptians who seem to be predominately Natufian genetically.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

They need to collect samples pre 1700bc. Says egypt was ruled by hyskos rulers at 1700bc.

[Kelmendasi]

They need to collect samples pre 1700bc. Says egypt was ruled by hyskos rulers at 1700bc.
Yh, the J1-P58 and maybe J2b1 are probably due to Hyksos/Canaanite influence or source

[Isleño]

Great find Gilgamesh! It seems what I initially thought about the Ancient Egyptians was true, that they were nearly completely Caucasoid! I did start to accept another theory that because they bordered three population (Levantine, Berber, East African), that they were a mix of these three and were similar to modern Egyptians. But that does not seem to be the case. It seems modern Egyptians are the ones that have taken on significant SSA admixture, not the ancients, also more Persian-like DNA. I bet Afrocentrists will be upset when they see this, since this shows they were nowhere near being black.

It seems, according to the ADMIXTURE analysis, that the Ancient Egyptians were almost like Natufians, but were more Anatolian and North Persian (Gedrosia/Caucuses??) shifted. It seems also the modern Saudis are the closest modern people in DNA mixture to the Ancient Egyptians. However, the modern Egyptians are their descendants, but are just more SSA shifted. That does suggest significant genetic continuity, besides the SSA and a little more N. Persian-like component. Lol, wow who would have guessed that ancients had less SSA than the moderns. I think maybe I might have heard you argue toward that before, can't really remember tho.

Anyway, good find bro! I got this one saved in my favorites now :)

[Sikeliot]

What it is looking like is, the Arab conquest would not have largely changed the DNA because the Egyptians would have been closely related anyway. Even Berbers have significant affinity to SW Asia genetically, though they have more of other components as well.

[Isleño]

Not even a drop of SSA in ancient egyptian samples, such a big disappointment for we wuz kingz and shiet kin......I'm sure they will console themselves with few YT videos with pompous title and large quantity of conspiracy theory to challenge dna results.

This looney toon that calls himself Shakka Ahmose will be acting up when he sees this study, cuz he's a kang n sheit

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rjKWgLsJZ3M/maxresdefault.jpg

Lol this dude is retarded. He dresses like an Ancient Egyptian and has their hair style, claiming he's their descendant. These people really believe this nonsense. Even if Ancient Egyptians were black, black Americans of west African descent would still not descend from them. But they are not black, which we can see from a peer reviewed study that contains a genome-wide, nuclear DNA sequence, first of its kind on an Ancient Egyptian mummy, and the earliest one is from the New Kingdom which is the era with all the all-stars (Ahmose I, Queen Hapshetsut, Thutmose III, Amenhotep III, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun, Queen Nefetari, Ramesses II, Ramesses III and 4 more Ramesses after that). This is big.

[Isleño]

What it is looking like is, the Arab conquest would not have largely changed the DNA because the Egyptians would have been closely related anyway. Even Berbers have significant affinity to SW Asia genetically, though they have more of other components as well.

Yeah, it seems even though Egypt was in Africa, they were not Africans. But makes sense. The Nile valley was directly around the corner from the Gaza Strip. Notice of the three mummies genome-wide tested, two of them had Haplogroup J as a Y-chromosome and one has the Berber Y-chromosome E1b1b1b. You can see in the ADMIXTURE run, they were like Anatolian and Iran_N shifted Natufians. Although the modern Egyptians are their SSA shifted descendants, they are closer to modern Saudis in admixture.

[Norse]

Thor Heyerdhal rejoices in the afterlife.

We will prove his White God theory soon.

[RN97]

Thor Heyerdhal rejoices in the afterlife.

We will prove his White God theory soon.

If he was a nordicists he will truly be one of the only nordic nordicists to have existed, no joke.

[Grishnack]

WE WUZ NOT KANGZ 'N SHIET :(

[Kamal900]

WE WUZ NOT KANGZ 'N SHIET :(

Do these things look they're capable in creating a civilization?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRzM2tZFng

[Grishnack]

Do these things look they're capable in creating a civilization?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRzM2tZFng

I WAS EATING, FOR FUCK'S SAKE

[Kamal900]

I WAS EATING, FOR FUCK'S SAKE

"That could've been my son" - Obama.

[Isleño]

Do these things look they're capable in creating a civilization?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRzM2tZFngHell no! Most of the blacks that are claiming Egypt are black Americans from the US. They live an identity crisis. They believe they descend from Ancient Egyptians, Moors, Hebrews, Olmec Indians, first Greeks etc. They claim everything but West Africa. It's insane. They are searching for greatness because all they know of their history is slavery, but they look everywhere but where they descend from; West Africa. It's insane how most of them believe this nonsense.

[Egyptian]

Yeah, it seems even though Egypt was in Africa, they were not Africans. But makes sense. The Nile valley was directly around the corner from the Gaza Strip. Notice of the three mummies genome-wide tested, two of them had Haplogroup J as a Y-chromosome and one has the Berber Y-chromosome E1b1b1b. You can see in the ADMIXTURE run, they were like Anatolian and Iran_N shifted Natufians. Although the modern Egyptians are their SSA shifted descendants, they are closer to modern Saudis in admixture.

Modern Saudis and Modern Gazans are closer to Egyptians not the opposite , modern saudis and arabs descended of the Egyptian woman (Hager) , while Gazans have a lot of Egyptian admx.

[Isleño]

Modern Saudis and Modern Gazans are closer to Egyptians not the opposite , modern saudis and arabs descended of the Egyptian woman (Hager) , while Gazans have a lot of Egyptian admx.
I was talking about Saudis seem to be the closest modern population to the ancient Egyptians by what the ADMIXTURE 37 result shows. Look at that part in the study.

[Isleño]

I went to YouTube looking for any video about this study and there is one by Phoenician 7 and the Afrocentrists were are avoiding it like the plague.

[Egyptian]

I was talking about Saudis seem to be the closest modern population to the ancient Egyptians by what the ADMIXTURE 37 result shows. Look at that part in the study.

parts of saudia were egyptian territories during the families rule in ancient egypt .. Egyptians and Gulf arabs share a lot of commons .. for example these ancient egyptian monuments were found in Saudia 1192 BC

http://archive.aawsat.com/2010/11/08/images/daily1.594333.jpg

http://archive.aawsat.com/details.asp?issueno=11700&article=594333

[Isleño]

parts of saudia were egyptian territories during the families rule in ancient egypt .. Egyptians and Gulf arabs share a lot of commons .. for example these ancient egyptian monuments were found in Saudia 1192 BC

http://archive.aawsat.com/2010/11/08/images/daily1.594333.jpg

http://archive.aawsat.com/details.asp?issueno=11700&article=594333I believe you. From what I gather from the study, the closest modern population in admixture percentage to the ancient Egyptians are the Saudis. But the modern Egyptians are the actual descendants of the ancient Egyptians, just they picked up 8% more SSA and a bit more N_Iran, so the extra SSA is pulling them in the direction of Algerians and Tunisians. Maybe the modern Egyptians picked up some Palestinian admixture, but not sure where the 8% SSA came from. Maybe from the Sudan or Nubians that invaded Egypt after the 25th dynasty. What do you think?

[Kamal900]

I believe you. From what I gather from the study, the closest modern population in admixture percentage to the ancient Egyptians are the Saudis. But the modern Egyptians are the actual descendants of the ancient Egyptians, just they picked up 8% more SSA and a bit more N_Iran, so the extra SSA is pulling them in the direction of Algerians and Tunisians. Maybe the modern Egyptians picked up some Palestinian admixture, but not sure where the 8% SSA came from. Maybe from the Sudan or Nubians that invaded Egypt after the 25th dynasty. What do you think?

The SSA admixture in today's Egyptians began in the early days of the Roman empire in Egypt. The real significance of SSA migration to North Africa started in the 7th century AD. Regardless of their recent SSA admixture, Egyptians and Arabians are descended from 2nd wave Eurasian Levantine groups which is why they cluster the closest to one another.

[Isleño]

The SSA admixture in today's Egyptians began in the early days of the Roman empire in Egypt. The real significance of SSA migration to North Africa started in the 7th century AD. Regardless of their recent SSA admixture, Egyptians and Arabians are descended from 2nd wave Eurasian Levantine groups which is why they cluster the closest to one another.
Wait, so you believe Egyptians descend from a second wave and not the ancient Egyptians?

[Kamal900]

Wait, so you believe Egyptians descend from a second wave and not the ancient Egyptians?

No, I'm saying that the ancient Egyptians themselves were descended from the ancient Levantine groups back in ancient times, and today's Egyptians are descended from these ancient Egyptians.

[Isleño]

No, I'm saying that the ancient Egyptians themselves were descended from the ancient Levantine groups back in ancient times, and today's Egyptians are descended from these ancient Egyptians.

Ah, I see. Well I could see how that makes sense. The Ancient Egyptian sample did resemble most the ancient Levantine sample. However, the ancient Egyptian had more Natufian DNA than the ancient Levantine. What is your theory on how the extra N_Iran got into the modern Egyptians and levantines?

[Kamal900]

Ah, I see. Well I could see how that makes sense. The Ancient Egyptian sample did resemble most the ancient Levantine sample. However, the ancient Egyptian had more Natufian DNA than the ancient Levantine. What is your theory on how the extra N_Iran got into the modern Egyptians and levantines?

Most likely due to the west Asian migrants coming from Anatolia and Iran which changed the genetic structure of the Levant to be more northern than the Natufians from the neolithic period. The ancient Semitic speaker from early Bronze Age, Jordan genetically cluster the closest to today's Arabians and Egyptians than to the genetic isolated groups of the Levant:
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/08/8b08d747b7b37f11ddd65c2c94a1c2bd.jpg
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/09/f298277a07218e4a5c8da2647542082e.jpg

It tells us that the Levantines from the neolithic and early Bronze Age periods were much more similar to today's Egyptians and Arabians, and the genetic structure of the Levant has changed due to the admixture coming from Anatolia that made them more northern.

[Myanthropologies]

Confirms what everyone who wasn't a retarded afro-nut already knew. Logically this should put an end to afrocentrist claims on ancient Egypt once and for all but they'll probably just call it white supremacist propaganda like everything else that proves them wrong.

It kind of is a white supremacist agenda

We found the ancient Egyptian samples falling distinct from modern Egyptians, and closer towards Near Eastern and European samples (Fig. 4a, Supplementary Fig. 3, Supplementary Table 5). In contrast, modern Egyptians are shifted towards sub-Saharan African populations.

In that paragraph, they try to make it sound like ancient Egyptians were closer to modern Europeans than they are to modern Egyptians when that's false
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/08/8b08d747b7b37f11ddd65c2c94a1c2bd.jpg
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/09/f298277a07218e4a5c8da2647542082e.jpg

I see this pattern a lot in genetic studies. They randomly compare ancient non european people to European people and then say something like "_ was closer to modern Europeans" to make it sound like said population was closer to Europeans, when what the truth is is that said population was more European shifted, but still closest to said modern population..

Afrocentrists aren't the only "we wuz kangz people" out there, white people are just as guilty.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Do these things look they're capable in creating a civilization?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRzM2tZFng
Those are nilotes. East africans are mixed with them, not west africans. You are related to them.


https://m.liveleak.com/view?i=163_1406607204


https://youtu.be/SqJYUsfsCZo


https://youtu.be/18i_SqmTBnQ

You are much more civilzed. You pour the urine in a cup first. Lol....

[Isleño]

We found the ancient Egyptian samples falling distinct from modern Egyptians, and closer towards Near Eastern and European samples (Fig. 4a, Supplementary Fig. 3, Supplementary Table 5). In contrast, modern Egyptians are shifted towards sub-Saharan African populations.

In that paragraph, they try to make it sound like ancient Egyptians were closer to modern Europeans than they are to modern Egyptians when that's false


I see this pattern a lot in genetic studies. They randomly compare ancient non european people to European people and then say something like "_ was closer to modern Europeans" to make it sound like said population was closer to Europeans, when what the truth is is that said population was more European shifted, but still closest to said modern population..

Afrocentrists aren't the only "we wuz kangz people" out there, white people are just as guilty.I think you interpreted the quote wrong. What I took from that same paragraph was that the samples were clustering away from modern Egyptian samples and toward (in the direction of) Near East and European populations on a pca plot. Going toward the near east, the Europeans are located in the same direction of Near East coming from the position of where modern Egyptians were being pulled toward because of the 8% more SSA. They weren't saying that Ancient Egyptians are closer to Europeans than modern Egyptians, they were saying that the ancients were clustering toward (in the direction of) the Near East and Europe, meaning in that direction. I think it's a bit much to claim a conspiracy theory like a white supremacist agenda because you interpreted it wrong. No offense.

[Kamal900]

I think you interpreted the quote wrong. What I took from that same paragraph was that the samples were clustering away from modern Egyptian samples and toward (in the direction of) Near East and European populations on a pca plot. Going toward the near east, the Europeans are located in the same direction of Near East coming from the position of where modern Egyptians were being pulled toward because of the 8% more SSA. They weren't saying that Ancient Egyptians are closer to Europeans than modern Egyptians, they were saying that the ancients were clustering toward (in the direction of) the Near East and Europe, meaning in that direction. I think it's a bit much to claim a conspiracy theory like a white supremacist agenda because you interpreted it wrong. No offense.

Near easterners and Europeans cluster to one another in the global PCA charts, and yes, it does shows that the ancient Egyptians cluster more closer to the near eastern population due to them in not having SSA admixture as today's Egyptians.

[Isleño]

Near easterners and Europeans cluster to one another in the global PCA charts, and yes, it does shows that the ancient Egyptians cluster more closer to the near eastern population due to them in not having SSA admixture as today's Egyptians.
Yes, that's correct. In an active world pca map you can zoom out and the Near East and Europe become one cluster. Only when you zoom in do they break apart. It's no secret that the closest genetic population to Europeans are the Near Easterners (and the Caucasus). So what the study was saying was not that the ancients were more like Europeans, but were falling distinct from the modern Egyptians clustering in the direction of the Near East and Europe. Yes, I agree with you.

[Isleño]

Most likely due to the west Asian migrants coming from Anatolia and Iran which changed the genetic structure of the Levant to be more northern than the Natufians from the neolithic period. The ancient Semitic speaker from early Bronze Age, Jordan genetically cluster the closest to today's Arabians and Egyptians than to the genetic isolated groups of the Levant:
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/08/8b08d747b7b37f11ddd65c2c94a1c2bd.jpg
http://pichoster.net/images/2017/05/09/f298277a07218e4a5c8da2647542082e.jpg

It tells us that the Levantines from the neolithic and early Bronze Age periods were much more similar to today's Egyptians and Arabians, and the genetic structure of the Levant has changed due to the admixture coming from Anatolia that made them more northern.
A couple screen shots from a video from YouTube I wanted to show you of past studies that were reporting the same things were finding now

https://preview.ibb.co/mwKVk5/IMG_0318.png
https://preview.ibb.co/deRbQ5/IMG_0317.png
https://preview.ibb.co/fHOvJQ/IMG_0316.png

[Kamal900]

A couple screen shots from a video from YouTube I wanted to show you of past studies that were reporting the same things were finding now
...

Yes, It pretty much on what we have been saying about Egypt all along, but Afrocentric lunatics still deny all of this.

[Isleño]

Watch this video, its debunking the Afrocentric claims against the new study by Shuenemann et al. 2017



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH3epz8tMIo

[Isleño]

Yes, It pretty much on what we have been saying about Egypt all along, but Afrocentric lunatics still deny all of this.

Check out this video, its about the Natufian findings by Lazaridis et al 2016 in accordance with the Ancient Egyptian findings of Shuenemann et al. 2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIySAnW0bZ0

[Isleño]

Check out this video, its about the Natufian findings by Lazaridis et al 2016 in accordance with the Ancient Egyptian findings of Shuenemann et al. 2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIySAnW0bZ0
After watching this video, I do see what the video meant. There is similar DNA found in Europeans that is found in Ancient Egyptians because the ancient Anatolian DNA is of the similar type as Neolithic Mediterranean found in Europeans. It's a stretch to say Ancient Egyptians are part European, which I don't see that. However, Europeans, Levantines and Modern and Ancient Egyptians do share the Anatolian component, and I believe even the Iran_N component (Gedrosia in Europeans). So this would in fact make Ancient Egyptians related to Europeans via the Levantines which have those same components. In a nutshell, Ancient Egyptians, Modern Egyptians, Levantines and Europeans are closely related.

1/3 of the Ancient Egyptian DNA is found in Europeans. But all of the AE DNA is found in Levantine and Modern Egyptians, as well as Arabians/Bedouins. Europeans do not have the Natufian, which Levantines have. Also, the Arabians and Bedouins have lots of Natufian. They even have the Anatolian and Iran_N. This is like whoa lol