Classify Shostakovich

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://www.esm.rochester.edu/uploads/Dmitri-Shostakovich-1.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/dmitri-shostakovich-05.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Dmitri_Shostakovich_credit_Deutsche_Fotothek_adjus ted.jpg/1200px-Dmitri_Shostakovich_credit_Deutsche_Fotothek_adjus ted.jpg

http://www.trbimg.com/img-5462a185/turbine/bal-bso-to-present-play-with-music-shostakovich-notes-for-stalin-20141111

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yrmBkNahcNg/maxresdefault.jpg

Dmitri Dmitriyevich Shostakovich was a Russian pianist and composer of the Soviet period. He is regarded as one of the major composers of the 20th century.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAdrn8s4m2s

[Odin]

Baltid + Pontid.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

His paternal grandfather had Polish roots but most of his family background is from Siberia.

[glass]

West baltid

[nightrider+]

Mostly Nordic. Looks German.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

He looks like he's scared 90% of his life.

[JMack]

Nordic + minor doses of Alpine and Dinaric in different proportions.

[RN97]

LMAO at dem classification biases. If he was named Mats Heinrich everyone would say nordic. He is nordic mostly. Perhaps a bit alpinized.

[Fractal]

non-Aryan

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What you mean non-Aryan and since when Aryan is a type for classification?

[Fractal]

What you mean non-Aryan and since when Aryan is a type for classification?

(something like this, although I dont buy the Aryan Migration Theory)
http://www.84kadavapatidar.org/New84/Content/Site/images/Hierarchy%20of%20Kadva%20Patidar.png

[Voskos]

have to agree with ross here. most taxonomies posted on apricity are non aryans erroneously classified as nordids and atlantomeds

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Not sure if you guys are serious or what, lol.

[Amud]

Unusual combination of a short face and long head. This means he must be of the type called "Cro-Magnon" and "disharmonious" by Ripley, which may have been the model for Lundman's Berid type.

[XenophobicPrussian]

LMAO at dem classification biases. If he was named Mats Heinrich everyone would say nordic. He is nordic mostly. Perhaps a bit alpinized.
I think he's Alpinized enough to be more Alpine than Nordic under Coon's system, but yes, Baltid and all that is ridiculous. Sub-Nordid in terms of internet anthro.

[Kamal900]

Very Polish or western Slavic look. Baltid and Pontid.

[RN97]

I think he's Alpinized enough to be more Alpine than Nordic under Coon's system, but yes, Baltid and all that is ridiculous. Sub-Nordid in terms of internet anthro.

Coon did use sub-nordic he just didn't call it that. He called them nordics altered by alpine and UP admixture

[Peterski]

(something like this, although I dont buy the Aryan Migration Theory)
http://www.84kadavapatidar.org/New84/Content/Site/images/Hierarchy%20of%20Kadva%20Patidar.png

You keep posting this in every thread, LOL.

[Hamlet]

You keep posting this in every thread, LOL.

I accidentally liked it and now I can't undo it, it's super retarded given all the evidence there is for the Pontic steppe.

Nvm, I for some reason interpreted Central Asia as being India, fml

[Hamlet]

(something like this, although I dont buy the Aryan Migration Theory)
http://www.84kadavapatidar.org/New84/Content/Site/images/Hierarchy%20of%20Kadva%20Patidar.png

Aryan migration theory is almost certainly correct, language spread (and languages are indicative of cultures) can be seen from the spread of R1, if that isn't evidence I don't know what is.

I'm also a Solutrean hypothesis believer too, those Aryans were the explorer-type it's fair to say.

[Rethel]

Dmitri Dmitriyevich Shostakovich was a Russian pianist

Russian pianist, but he was a Pole.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Russian pianist, but he was a Pole.

He was Russian, only his grandfather was a Pole. Most of his family background is from Siberia, has stated before.

[Rethel]

He was Russian, only his grandfather was a Pole. Most of his family background is from Siberia, has stated before.

Nope. He was Pole.
It is really hard to change nationality during 40 years... :)

Send to syberia in 1866
Born in 1906.

Impossible.

[Jana]

He looks very Polish! Certanly a far more central than eastern European look. Mainly alpinid/west baltid. He can pass in Croatia pretty easily too.
PS: I really like the waltz no.2 (probably his most famous work), because it never gets old. Brilliant music.

[Rethel]

I accidentally liked it and now I can't undo it,

Just click the red thumb.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Nope. He was Pole.
It is really hard to change nationality during 40 years... :)

Send to syberia in 1866
Born in 1906.

Impossible.

He just happens to have a Polish grandfather, all the rest of his family was Russian. He is Russian above anything else.

Polish politician asks why philharmonic orchestra plays Russian music

A councillor in Poland’s third-largest city has tabled a formal inquiry as to why the Łódź Philharmonics play music by Russian composers.

The head of the conservative Law and Justice (PiS) caucus in the city council, Piotr Adamczyk is in particular concerned about Dmitri Shostakovich and Sergey Prokofiev.
“Is it quite certain that the Łódź public want to listen to the music of one composer, namely D. Shostakovich and his peculiar pro-Soviet music (XII Symphony - for Lenin, New Babylon – soundtrack to the film about a female Paris Commune activist) or S. Prokofiev - "Aleksander Nevskiy",” he asked.
The response was delivered by the head of the Łódź region administration, Witold Stępień of the governing Civic Platform (PO).
While Shostakovich’s XII Symphony was in the end not performed by the Łódź orchestra, it is part of the repertory of Berlin, Amsterdam and Liverpool philharmonics, he said.
He also pointed out that a mere 17 pieces out of 107 performed by the Łódź philharmonics over the past 12 months were composed by Russians.
Stępień tactfully omitted the fact that Shostakovich only survived Stalinism by a stroke of luck after being denounced as a "bourgeois formalist".

in: http://www.thenews.pl/1/11/Artykul/202283,Polish-politician-asks-why-philharmonic-orchestra-plays-Russian-music

[Rethel]

He just happens to have a Polish grandfather, all the rest of his family was Russian. He is Russian above anything else.

Polish politician asks why philharmonic orchestra plays Russian music

A councillor in Poland’s third-largest city has tabled a formal inquiry as to why the Łódź Philharmonics play music by Russian composers.

The head of the conservative Law and Justice (PiS) caucus in the city council, Piotr Adamczyk is in particular concerned about Dmitri Shostakovich and Sergey Prokofiev.
“Is it quite certain that the Łódź public want to listen to the music of one composer, namely D. Shostakovich and his peculiar pro-Soviet music (XII Symphony - for Lenin, New Babylon – soundtrack to the film about a female Paris Commune activist) or S. Prokofiev - "Aleksander Nevskiy",” he asked.
The response was delivered by the head of the Łódź region administration, Witold Stępień of the governing Civic Platform (PO).
While Shostakovich’s XII Symphony was in the end not performed by the Łódź orchestra, it is part of the repertory of Berlin, Amsterdam and Liverpool philharmonics, he said.
He also pointed out that a mere 17 pieces out of 107 performed by the Łódź philharmonics over the past 12 months were composed by Russians.
Stępień tactfully omitted the fact that Shostakovich only survived Stalinism by a stroke of luck after being denounced as a "bourgeois formalist".

in: http://www.thenews.pl/1/11/Artykul/202283,Polish-politician-asks-why-philharmonic-orchestra-plays-Russian-music

It makes me deeply and truely sad, that he was a Soviet,
but whatever you think he was a Pole, and especially whole
his family was Polish. Maybe some ascendants and cognates
were russians, but it is meaningless, it happens everywhere.

[Rethel]

He would even be able to get the Card of the Pole.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

"Born at Podolskaya street in Saint Petersburg, Russia, Shostakovich was the second of three children of Dmitri Boleslavovich Shostakovich and Sofiya Vasilievna Kokoulina. Shostakovich's paternal grandfather, originally surnamed Szostakowicz, was of Polish Roman Catholic descent (his family roots trace to the region of the town of Vileyka in today's Belarus), but his immediate forebears came from Siberia."

[Rethel]

"Born at Podolskaya street in Saint Petersburg, Russia, Shostakovich was the second of three children of Dmitri Boleslavovich Shostakovich and Sofiya Vasilievna Kokoulina. Shostakovich's paternal grandfather, originally surnamed Szostakowicz, was of Polish Roman Catholic descent (his family roots trace to the region of the town of Vileyka in today's Belarus), but his immediate forebears came from Siberia."

Wikipedist judgements are offen stupid. It is proof of nothing, especially,
that this particular grandpa was from Syberia too. He was send there in
1866. Guy was born in 1906. It is impossible to change your skin in such
short period of time. He could be of course some kind of russian OWD, but
it is meaningless. Szostakiewiczes are polish family you/I like it or not.

[XenophobicPrussian]

He doesn't look Polish or Slavic at all.. Feiichy claims he looks "very Polish". I mean, you can argue he passes in Poland, but does he have an extremely Polish look? Not at all. Sergei Rachmaninoff or Sergei Prokofiev have extremely Slavic looks.

[RN97]

He doesn't look Polish or Slavic at all.. Feiichy claims he looks "very Polish". I mean, you can argue he passes in Poland, but does he have an extremely Polish look? Not at all. Sergei Rachmaninoff or Sergei Prokofiev have extremely Slavic looks.

It's very hard to say what looks "slavic" as slavs are very diverse, but from my experience this is Pollockoid
http://i.imgur.com/6zTRFZY.jpg

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

He doesn't look Polish or Slavic at all.. Feiichy claims he looks "very Polish". I mean, you can argue he passes in Poland, but does he have an extremely Polish look? Not at all. Sergei Rachmaninoff or Sergei Prokofiev have extremely Slavic looks.

Rachmaninoff is believed to have Romanian Tatar ancestry,. Prokofiev looks specifically Russian and passes best in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. His face is not really a common face in other Slavic nations.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Tchaikovsky on the other hand can pass virtually in all Slavic nations, including the Balkan ones even if a little bit more atypical. All great composers and actually some of my favs. We should open a classical music thread.

[Rethel]

It's very hard to say what looks "slavic" as slavs are very diverse, but from my experience this is Pollockoid

Idk if he is a good example. He always seems to look weirdly to me. Especially when was younger.

[Rethel]

Tchaikovsky

According to you he should be French :laugh:

But he was a Pole also. Or at least Ukrainian - it can be disscusable.

[Jana]

He doesn't look Polish or Slavic at all.. Feiichy claims he looks "very Polish". I mean, you can argue he passes in Poland, but does he have an extremely Polish look? Not at all.
He doesn't look Germanic if that's what you mean. Germans that look like that usually have Slavic roots.

Sergei Rachmaninoff or Sergei Prokofiev have extremely Slavic looks.
More like extremely Russian (and not all Russians look like that). No idea why you think that Russians (with Finno-Ugric admixture) should be a benchmark for Slavic looks. And Sergei Rachmaninoff looks like Russian Jew to me.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

According to you he should be French :laugh:

But he was a Pole also. Or at least Ukrainian - it can be disscusable.

What's your problem, lol. You're starting to act like Albanians all the time trying to appropriate other relevant personalities as their own. Tchaikovsky was Russian. He had a great-grandfather who was an Ukrainian Cossack, but that's all.


He doesn't look Germanic if that's what you mean. Germans that look like that usually have Slavic roots.

More like extremely Russian (and not all Russians look like that). No idea why you think that Russians (with Finno-Ugric admixture) should be a benchmark for Slavic looks. And Sergei Rachmaninoff looks like Russian Jew to me.

Edit: Rachmaninoff doesn't look Jew to me.

http://dehayf5mhw1h7.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/598/2017/02/08235444/Rachmaninoff.jpg

https://s12.postimg.org/xlen0pd1p/sergei-rachmaninoff-06_1.jpg

[Fractal]

You keep posting this in every thread, LOL.

This is another one, a bit harder to see 'cause of the small print.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/thehistoryofpatidars-1306015680-phpapp02-110521170948-phpapp02/95/the-historyof-patidars-45-728.jpg?cb=1338793142

[Rethel]

What's your problem, lol. You're starting to act like Albanians all the time trying to appropriate other relevant personalities as their own.

I said maybe Ukrainian, so, it is not my own. I am myself of foreign provenance, so what's your problem? :laugh:


Tchaikovsky was Russian. He had a great-grandfather who was an Ukrainian Cossack, but that's all.

Who was probably polish nobleman check ru wiki.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I said maybe Ukrainian, so, it is not my own. I am myself of foreign provenance, so what's your problem? :laugh:



Who was probably polish nobleman check ru wiki.

If they are not Russian then Chopin is not Polish as well.

[Rethel]

If they are not Russian then Chopin is not Polish as well.

Chopin was obviously a Frenchman. A polish Frenchman. Didn't you know this before? :confused:

His music is polish, but he is not (at least by birth), the same as Shostakiewicz was a Pole, but a russian musician.

Get it?

I would prefer Chopin to be a Pole insteed of Szostakiewicz, but what can I do... :pout:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Chopin was obviously a Frenchman. A polish Frenchman. Didn't you know this before? :confused:

His music is polish, but he is not (at least by birth), the same as Shostakiewicz was a Pole, but a russian musician.

Get it?

I would prefer Chopin to be a Pole insteed of Szostakiewicz, but what can I do... :pout:

Thing is, one cay say that Chopin was only half-Polish since his father was a Frenchman. You can not say the same about Shostakovich because only his grandfather was a Pole. Nevertheless, Chopin is worldwide acclaimed as a Polish composer the same way Shostakovitch is known as one of the greatest Russian contemporaneous composers.

[Rethel]

Thing is, one cay say that Chopin was only half-Polish since his father was a Frenchman.

Half pole? ok, half Pole but fully Frenchman. ;)


You can not say the same about Shostakovich because only his grandfather was a Pole.

Only? :picard1: Aż Grandpa, the grandpa -> fully Polish.


Nevertheless, Chopin is worldwide acclaimed as a Polish composer

To be a polish composer you do not have to be a Pole.
Many polish writers were not Poles, like the most famous,
Mickiewicz (a Lithuanian) and Sienkiewicz (a Tatar).


the same way Shostakovitch is known as one of the greatest Russian contemporaneous composers.

Yes, a Pole who was a russian composer.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Half pole? ok, half Pole but fully Frenchman. ;)

No, his mother was Polish.

[Rethel]

No, his mother was Polish.

No what? Half Pole of full Frenchman?

p.s. did I negate that his mother was Poless?

[Not a Cop]

Half pole? ok, half Pole but fully Frenchman. ;)



Only? :picard1: Aż Grandpa, the grandpa -> fully Polish.



To be a polish composer you do not have to be a Pole.
Many polish writers were not Poles, like the most famous,
Mickiewicz (a Lithuanian) and Sienkiewicz (a Tatar).



Yes, a Pole who was a russian composer.

If we will use your logic Shostakovich is a Belarussian composer since we nowdays know that poles from GDL are polonised natives.

[Rethel]

If we will use your logic Shostakovich is a Belarussian composer since we nowdays know that poles from GDL are polonised natives.

1. You would have to prove it. General statements are not a proof.
The oldest known identity is polish as far as it can be proofed right now.

2. It is hard to speak about Belarusians in the past at all.

[Not a Cop]

1. You would have to prove it. General statements are not a proof.
The oldest known identity is polish as far as it can be proofed right now.

2. It is hard to speak about Belarusians in the past at all.

Actually we have so many genetic results of Eastern Poles that it's you, who have to proff otherwise.

I can even show you it in examples as 2 of my grandparents are 1\4 GDL poles, one from Vilno and other from Łachwa.

In sens of Belarussian identity - yes, in sense of genetics - no.

[Rethel]

Actually we have so many genetic results of Eastern Poles that it's you, who have to proff otherwise.

Did I deny that some of Poles from the east are polonized locals?

I gave even two examples of such. :bored:

But, even polish colonists from the west, would have today local au, so it proofs nothing.

If you claim, that somebody is polonized, you have to proove it.
If you know something about this guy, tell me, and I will reclassyfy him, no problem.
But as far as I know, his oldest known ancestor was a Pole.

Btw, every Pole was at some point in time polinized, but it is not the case, if you can imagine.


In sens of Belarussian identity - yes, in sense of genetics - no.

Did I even mention genetics?
So, if they had no identity, it is hard to say, who he was IF he was polonized.
In many cases, if not in majority, the first identity ever was Lithuanian or Pole.

[aherne]

Looked a bit like me: subnordid...

[Columella]

Even in this photo we can see that his head is of considerable length.
Nordic- Borreby
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Dmitri_Shostakovich_credit_Deutsche_Fotothek_adjus ted.jpg/1200px-Dmitri_Shostakovich_credit_Deutsche_Fotothek_adjus ted.jpg

[LieDetector]

East-Nordid