K36 Ancient: where did your ancestors live ~5000 years ago [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Peterski

06-17-2017, 05:58 PM

This is a test version, I think that there are still few issues.

Tell me what do you think about these results though?

Here is what I get for several Latin American users:

Annie999:

http://i.imgur.com/lrtFXLS.png

Vascontelo:

http://i.imgur.com/6G9Xi6X.png

Kriptc:

http://i.imgur.com/F2Wvlw6.png

Potentia:

http://i.imgur.com/hAB3NoJ.png

CrazyDaisy:

http://i.imgur.com/oRys5Yf.png

Alnortedelsur:

http://i.imgur.com/LgVPKVS.png

======
Edit:

Some other users:

Longbowman (Jewish):

http://i.imgur.com/dTWWUGX.png

MustafaTekin (Turkish):

http://i.imgur.com/FqZpn49.png

Annie999

06-17-2017, 06:11 PM

Kudos for doing this. Regarding the accuracy of it I cant tell as Im not familiar with that era and the ethnicities shown. All I can tell you is I have 1 lebanese great grandfather and the rest south-central euros.

Peterski

06-17-2017, 06:21 PM

Annie999

06-17-2017, 06:22 PM

So you have only 1/8 of Lebanese ancestry and 7/8 is European?
Exactly

frankhammer

06-17-2017, 06:22 PM

No fun if only you get to play with the new toy!

Lucas

06-17-2017, 06:38 PM

Show me

Voskos

06-17-2017, 06:42 PM

according to the latest out-of-africa migration theories, the ancestors of most modern Greeks arrived from Egypt about 200 years ago.

Lek

06-17-2017, 06:47 PM

Do one for me,

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 2.81
Armenian 1.99
Basque 3.10
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.11
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 9.88
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.61
East_Med 4.35
Eastern_Euro 3.31
Fennoscandian -
French 4.39
Iberian 7.89
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 21.36
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 5.07
North_African -
North_Atlantic 4.02
North_Caucasian 4.45
North_Sea 7.09
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.57
West_Med 5.99

Kriptc06

06-17-2017, 06:47 PM

WOW! thank you Liv!

Lek

06-17-2017, 06:48 PM

Is Eurogenes k36 correct?

Peterski

06-17-2017, 06:49 PM

No fun if only you get to play with the new toy!

But I'm creating it and it still in "test phase". :p

MustafaTekin (Turkish user):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74245-Post-your-results-for-Eurogenes-K36&p=4450166&viewfull=1#post4450166

http://i.imgur.com/FqZpn49.png

Kriptc06

06-17-2017, 06:50 PM

What is inside that east mena exactly? turkic stuff?

Peterski

06-17-2017, 06:56 PM

What is inside that east mena exactly? turkic stuff?

EastMENA = ancient Iran before Indo-European migrations.

I'm surprised that Jews get more EastMENA than WestMENA.

Longbowman (Ashkenazi+Sephardic):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74245-Post-your-results-for-Eurogenes-K36&p=3691460&viewfull=1#post3691460

http://i.imgur.com/dTWWUGX.png

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 07:17 PM

Can you please do this for me?

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 3.85
Basque 1.39
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.71
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.74
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 8.43
East_Med 10.89
Eastern_Euro 3.59
Fennoscandian 0.61
French 1.24
Iberian 14.94
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 20.32
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 7.97
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 4.75
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.10
West_Med 7.47

Lek

06-17-2017, 07:23 PM

Sikeliot

06-17-2017, 07:23 PM

I posted mine and my mother's somewhere but I forget exactly where.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 07:26 PM

Krejt Ashkali
KK

Figaro

06-17-2017, 07:27 PM

Is it possible to make requests? If not, it's all good.

My mother's:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 0.40
Armenian 0.45
Basque 2.15
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.96
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 3.62
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 15.44
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 14.51
Fennoscandian 7.52
French 4.95
Iberian 4.89
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 9.61
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 11.49
North_Caucasian 1.84
North_Sea 11.53
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.39
South_Central_Asian 0.70
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.32
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.24

Peterski

06-17-2017, 07:30 PM

Show me

I'm not sure why but currently it is more "noisy" for Northern and Eastern Euros:
(for example it gave you 0.6 Samoan - some Non-Euro populations are modern)

http://i.imgur.com/22rAlXs.png

Coolguy1

06-17-2017, 07:34 PM

If you could do mine that would be great

Italian20.43
East_Med13.80
Near_Eastern9.23
Iberian8.71
East_Balkan7.23
North_Caucasian6.86
Armenian5.71
East_Central_Euro5.71
French5.48
North_Sea4.97
Eastern_Euro3.79
Central_Euro3.51
West_Med2.67
Basque0.81
Fennoscandian0.72
Volga-Ural0.22
North_African0.13
Amerindian-
Arabian-
Central_African-
East_African-
East_Asian-
East_Central_Asian-
Indo-Chinese-
Malayan-
North_Atlantic-
Northeast_African-
Oceanian-
Omotic-
Pygmy-
Siberian-
South_Asian-
South_Central_Asian-
South_Chinese-
West_African-
West_Caucasian-

- [ ]

RN97

06-17-2017, 07:36 PM

What do you think tho Litvin, with the stuff you know. Does this seem about right or nah?

Peterski

06-17-2017, 07:36 PM

Diesel:

http://i.imgur.com/OnxqPL7.png

Peterski

06-17-2017, 07:39 PM

What do you think tho Litvin, with the stuff you know. Does this seem about right or nah?

Steppe is probably overestimated at the expense of some North-East Euro hunter-gatherers. And Megalithic is probably overestimated at the expense of WesternMENA and Anatolia-Armenia Chalcolithic. Also ancient Balkan samples are missing. You can see which areas in the map have no samples.

de Burgh II

06-17-2017, 07:40 PM

I was wondering if you could do one for me if you have the time....

Thanks in advance... :p

Population
Amerindian 0.20
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 4.49
Central_African -
Central_Euro 11.02
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 1.61
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.07
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 7.31
French 9.64
Iberian 14.22
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 8.60
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 20.12
North_Caucasian 1.81
North_Sea 15.09
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 0.10
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.73

RN97

06-17-2017, 07:41 PM

Steppe is probably overestimated at the expense of some North-East Euro hunter-gatherers. And Megalithic is probably overestimated at the expense of WesternMENA and Anatolia-Armenia Chalcolithic. Also ancient Balkan samples are missing. You can see which areas in the map have no samples.

Was it you that made this? How does this work really?

Peterski

06-17-2017, 07:44 PM

Kelmendasi:

http://i.imgur.com/D2jb6jS.png

Was it you that made this?

Yes, I made it but I know that it will be more accurate if I add more samples.

Each dot is one location with ancient samples (either one or more samples).

I also added some modern Non-European populations due to lack of aDNA.

How does this work really?

What I'm posting now are nMonte results.

Lucas

06-17-2017, 07:47 PM

I'm not sure why but currently it is more "noisy" for Northern and Eastern Euros:
(for example it gave you 0.6 Samoan - some Non-Euro populations are modern)

http://i.imgur.com/22rAlXs.png
Why there aren't any Unetice from Poland?
I like Samoans:)

Peterski

06-17-2017, 07:51 PM

Why there aren't any Unetice from Poland?

Because Unetice samples are too young (they are Post-Indo-European).

This Oracle is for Pre-IE invasion times, so Late Neolithic / Copper Age.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 07:51 PM

Kelmendasi:

http://i.imgur.com/D2jb6jS.png
.
Thanks. Nice, seems like I have the highest Megalithic so far. Do you think the high East MENA is a Neolithic thing and that I have it in moderate amounts because of no Balkan group?

Lek

06-17-2017, 07:52 PM

KK

OK OK. JENA KREJT MAGJYP

Lucas

06-17-2017, 07:54 PM

Krejt Ashkali

Diesel, you are Albo?

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 07:55 PM

OK OK. JENA KREJT MAGJYP
Hahaha lol. BTW I know who you are lol ;)

Lek

06-17-2017, 07:57 PM

Diesel:

http://i.imgur.com/OnxqPL7.png

Thats my nigga right there!!!

Peterski

06-17-2017, 07:57 PM

I'm interested in samples from 5000-3000 BC and some from 3000-2000 BC:

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#3/47.75/41.84

Lek

06-17-2017, 07:58 PM

Diesel, you are Albo?

Yeah Albooooo, t'kalli si marlborooooo!!!

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 07:59 PM

Yeah Albooooo, t'kalli si marlborooooo!!!
Hahahahaha xxxxxDDDDDD

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 08:00 PM

Thats my nigga right there!!!
Krejt Ashkali xD

Peterski

06-17-2017, 08:03 PM

deBurgh:

http://i.imgur.com/ydou8lq.png

Noman

06-17-2017, 08:07 PM

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 08:17 PM

Can you do one for my Albo friend called Dibran pls? He is an R1a Albanian

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.41
Basque 2.74
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.97
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.48
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.10
East_Med 10.53
Eastern_Euro 4.01
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 10.91
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 30.69
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 3.12
North_African -
North_Atlantic 3.38
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 5.47
West_Med 8.16

Lek

06-17-2017, 08:26 PM

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 08:28 PM

My great grandfathers name was Dibran.

You know this guys subclade btw?
That's his username on Anthrogenica and Eupedia because he is from there lol. We don't know his subclade yet but he is testing at fullgenomes, I think he is Z93 as he doesn't show any Slavic or Germanic admix

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 08:31 PM

Could you also please do Dibran's father?

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.61
Basque 1.18
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.85
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 8.08
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.96
East_Med 11.54
Eastern_Euro 3.49
Fennoscandian -
French 1.36
Iberian 8.35
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 34.59
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 6.13
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.20
North_Caucasian 2.76
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.27
West_Med 6.60

Peterski

06-17-2017, 08:34 PM

Hey,

Can you do it for me Please? :)

Population Percentage
South_Central_Asian 44.11
South_Asian 32.96
North_Caucasian 10.13
Armenian 4.47
Eastern_Euro 2.04
Fennoscandian 1.55
Volga-Ural 1.33
East_Balkan 1.27
Oceanian 0.79
Amerindian 0.55
West_Caucasian 0.36
North_Atlantic 0.29
East_Central_Euro 0.16

Here are your results:

http://i.imgur.com/Qs80l9j.png

Note:

Due to lack of ancient DNA, India is represented by modern Tamils from Ceylon (they have the highest % of "South Asian" admixture out of modern populations in K36) and Gedrosia is represented by Brahui and Burusho from Pakistan (they have the highest % of "South-Central Asian" in K36).

"South Asian" peaks in South India and "South-Central Asian" peaks in Pakistan.

=================

Maybe instead of using modern populations I should use "fictional" populations, one 100% South Asian (Tamils are 74%) and one 100% South-Central Asian (Brahui 95%, Burusho 89%).

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 08:47 PM

Do me Litvin. :)

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 4.68
Basque 3.14
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.15
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 8.96
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.23
East_Med 12.07
Eastern_Euro 2.83
Fennoscandian 4.20
French 4.36
Iberian 4.21
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 25.63
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 5.97
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.34
North_Caucasian 4.49
North_Sea 1.40
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.32
West_Med 4.00

Lek

06-17-2017, 08:51 PM

That's his username on Anthrogenica and Eupedia because he is from there lol. We don't know his subclade yet but he is testing at fullgenomes, I think he is Z93 as he doesn't show any Slavic or Germanic admix

A R1a native Balkan ydna would be the coolest hg ever

And also some native I2a or I1 ... some rare hg but that is still native or from some rare population

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 08:58 PM

That's his username on Anthrogenica and Eupedia because he is from there lol. We don't know his subclade yet but he is testing at fullgenomes, I think he is Z93 as he doesn't show any Slavic or Germanic admix

Wow, if true then he carries an ancient hg in Balkans, non Slavic source.

Lucas

06-17-2017, 09:08 PM

Here are your results:

http://i.imgur.com/Qs80l9j.png

Note:

Due to lack of ancient DNA, India is represented by modern Tamils from Ceylon (they have the highest % of "South Asian" admixture out of modern populations in K36) and Gedrosia is represented by Brahui and Burusho from Pakistan (they have the highest % of "South-Central Asian" in K36).

"South Asian" peaks in South India and "South-Central Asian" peaks in Pakistan.

=================

Maybe instead of using modern populations I should use "fictional" populations, one 100% South Asian (Tamils are 74%) and one 100% South-Central Asian (Brahui 95%, Burusho 89%).

So for non-Euro people is fully made-up ancient oracle. Better do it for Euro and West Asia only (+Ameridian because there are some ancient kits, altough not from this same age like in Europe and West Asia but netter than nothing).

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:14 PM

A R1a native Balkan ydna would be the coolest hg ever

And also some native I2a or I1 ... some rare hg but that is still native or from some rare population
Yh it's super interesting. My maternal side which is from a nearby village in Dibra i vogel are closely related to him which is shown by how close I match him on Gedmatch, I would like to test my maternal father line as they might share the same line but they do have different surnames and are from different villages so IDK. I think I2a2 is a really cool hg as well as G2, I1 and a few others

Peterski

06-17-2017, 09:15 PM

Do me Litvin. :)

Your results:

http://i.imgur.com/4oirF84.png

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:16 PM

Your results:

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/4oirF84.png[/img]
Fuck nigga beat my Megalithic xD

Coolguy1

06-17-2017, 09:17 PM

Yh it's super interesting. My maternal side which is from a nearby village in Dibra i vogel are closely related to him which is shown by how close I match him on Gedmatch, I would like to test my maternal father line as they might share the same line but they do have different surnames and are from different villages so IDK. I think I2a2 is a really cool hg as well as G2, I1 and a few others

My maternal side is I2a2, at first when I checked the familytree website I thought it was I2a dinaric and got scared for a second, lol.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:19 PM

My maternal side is I2a2, at first when I checked the familytree website I thought it was I2a dinaric and got scared for a second, lol.
Yh, I2a2 is a super cool hg and it's a native Balkan/Euro hg which makes it even cooler

Lek

06-17-2017, 09:21 PM

Your results:

http://i.imgur.com/4oirF84.png

Lool. Interesting how other Albanians get way more MENA than me.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 09:23 PM

Your results:

http://i.imgur.com/4oirF84.png

Thanks m8. :)

Peterski

06-17-2017, 09:24 PM

These are the 4 main components of Megalithic samples (they also get some minor components):

- West_Med
- Iberian
- Italian
- Basque

Megalithic samples from Sweden, Ireland, Germany and Hungary also get these 4 components. :)

All those Megalithic samples are remarkably homogeneous.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 09:26 PM

Fuck nigga beat my Megalithic xD

I got to thank my higher WHG input for this I guess. :D

Lek

06-17-2017, 09:34 PM

I got to thank my higher WHG input for this I guess. :D

I get interesting enough highest steppe, low mena... maybe my ydna really did come from steppes with proto ilyrians/ indo europeans

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:40 PM

I get interesting enough highest steppe, low mena... maybe my ydna really did come from steppes with proto ilyrians/ indo europeans
If you add your east MENA and west MENA together you get 15.3 MENA but if you include CHG into that you get 22.8, but IDK if CHG should be included as MENA.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:45 PM

@Diesel: Overall your MENA seems to be lower than most Albos AFAIK, but you have high Steppe

Lucas

06-17-2017, 09:45 PM

So I'm with highest Steppe? What's your results Litvin?

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 09:45 PM

I get interesting enough highest steppe, low mena... maybe my ydna really did come from steppes with proto ilyrians/ indo europeans

Yours are really interesting, but I don't think y-dna is mainly responsible for high steppe/yamnaya component or a serious factor for y-dna origin.

Lek

06-17-2017, 09:48 PM

If you add your east MENA and west MENA together you get 15.3 MENA but if you include CHG into that you get 22.8, but IDK if CHG should be included as MENA.

Yeah, i know. But MENA added together i still get lowest especially east. Even with chg. Chg should rather be included in steppe imo or just by itself as it is caucasus hunter gatherer and these mena components are different and more ancient neolithic or something.. like east mena could be neolithic iran.. but idk lol.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 09:51 PM

Yeah, i know. But MENA added together i still get lowest especially east. Even with chg. Chg should rather be included in steppe imo or just by itself as it is caucasus hunter gatherer and these mena components are different and more ancient neolithic or something.. like east mena could be neolithic iran.. but idk lol.

I know for the fact that I score high Caucasus and CHG in every calculator, east mena is rather confusing but I know is made up of CHG due my high caucasus score.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:52 PM

Yeah, i know. But MENA added together i still get lowest especially east. Even with chg. Chg should rather be included in steppe imo or just by itself as it is caucasus hunter gatherer and these mena components are different and more ancient neolithic or something.. like east mena could be neolithic iran.. but idk lol.
CHG were apparently spread into Europe via Neolithic farmers so maybe it is similar to Neolithic(MENA in this case) but IDK, I think we should leave CHG as a separate thing up until an expert like Litvin or Mlukas can explain. East MENA is Neolithic Iran in this tool. How much Steppe did you get on ancient origins?

Ylla

06-17-2017, 09:54 PM

Armenian 5.88
Basque 1.58
Central_Euro 5.12
East_Balkan 11.79
East_Central_Euro 2.25
East_Med 13.86
Eastern_Euro 3.82
French 1.51
Iberian 12.99
Italian 23.02
Near_Eastern 4.50
North_Atlantic 1.12
North_Caucasian 0.14
North_Sea 4.04
Volga-Ural 0.18
West_Caucasian 2.53
West_Med 5.63

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 09:54 PM

CHG were apparently spread into Europe via Neolithic farmers so maybe it is similar to Neolithic(MENA in this case) but IDK, I think we should leave CHG as a separate thing up until an expert like Litvin or Mlukas can explain. East MENA is Neolithic Iran in this tool. How much Steppe did you get on ancient origins?

Ancient origin feature is crap and misleading tool for MAI, their reference was northern iran not yamnaya.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 09:54 PM

I know for the fact that I score high Caucasus and CHG in every calculator, east mena is rather confusing but I know is made up of CHG due my high caucasus score.
I remember you telling me that I have a lot of native Megalithic ancestry when compared to the average Albo and maybe this map shows it, I suspect that you get higher Megalithic than me due to some WHG being grouped into it

Peterski

06-17-2017, 09:57 PM

Hey,

Can you do it for me Please? :)

Population Percentage
South_Central_Asian 44.11
South_Asian 32.96
North_Caucasian 10.13
Armenian 4.47
Eastern_Euro 2.04
Fennoscandian 1.55
Volga-Ural 1.33
East_Balkan 1.27
Oceanian 0.79
Amerindian 0.55
West_Caucasian 0.36
North_Atlantic 0.29
East_Central_Euro 0.16

I removed modern populations - Burusho, Brahui and Tamil - from the Oracle.

I replaced Tamils (75% South Asian) with a hypothetical ancient population which is 100% South Asian. I did not replace Burusho and Brahui with anything. Here is what you get now (ancient Iranian samples are now the best fit for you, after removing modern Burusho and Brahui from comparison):

http://i.imgur.com/rnYVOxI.png

oszkar07

06-17-2017, 09:58 PM

Could you do mine too Litvin, Thanks!
Oszkar07
Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 0.68
Armenian -
Basque 3.70
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.01
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 5.80
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 11.27
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 11.26
Fennoscandian 7.81
French 7.55
Iberian 6.68
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 11.73
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 10.13
North_Caucasian 2.57
North_Sea 14.17
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.07
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.11
West_Med 1.45

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 10:00 PM

Ancient origin feature is crap and misleading tool for MAI, their reference was northern iran not yamnaya.
Yh, I guess the creator was trying to make South Asians more Indo-European lol. I knew it because I scored a lot of Steppe according to Lebrok from Eupedia as well as Neolithic and WHG

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:03 PM

I remember you telling me that I have a lot of native Megalithic ancestry when compared to the average Albo and maybe this map shows it, I suspect that you get higher Megalithic than me due to some WHG being grouped into it

I observed your results pattern and you often show high Mediterranean which going by petalpusher words there's hidden high mesolithic component, I guess I was right in my calculation......I think my WHG is responsible for high megalithic score aswell.

Potentia

06-17-2017, 10:04 PM

Potentia:

http://i.imgur.com/hAB3NoJ.png

Ah, this is cool!

I seem to have the highest amount of Steppe Ancestry, out of the Latin Americans. I'm assuming that it mans that I am more WHG than the typical Southern European or Latin American. Also, it seems to have detected my distant Chinese Ancestry, nice!

Lek

06-17-2017, 10:05 PM

I know for the fact that I score high Caucasus and CHG in every calculator, east mena is rather confusing but I know is made up of CHG due my high caucasus score.

Compared to the average Albo, my west asian and natufian is low on most calcs. Atleast something i noticed.

Lek

06-17-2017, 10:08 PM

Btw Litvin , thanks for taking your time to making these!!

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:10 PM

Compared to the average Albo, my west asian and natufian is low on most calcs. Atleast something i noticed.

In every calculator and pca map your are among most northern shifted albo, ofc this has to do with lower natufian and west asian, opposite of you I get above average caucasus, although I don't know why I score high caucasus?

Peterski

06-17-2017, 10:17 PM

Ah, this is cool!

I seem to have the highest amount of Steppe Ancestry, out of the Latin Americans. I'm assuming that it mans that I am more WHG than the typical Southern European or Latin American. Also, it seems to have detected my distant Chinese Ancestry, nice!

Wow, do you really have actual Chinese / East Asian ancestry? :)

I thought that part of your Amerindian got confused for East Asian.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:20 PM

Ah, this is cool!

I seem to have the highest amount of Steppe Ancestry, out of the Latin Americans. I'm assuming that it mans that I am more WHG than the typical Southern European or Latin American. Also, it seems to have detected my distant Chinese Ancestry, nice!

That's not because of higher WHG but rather higher ANE which both Euros and NA have it and consequently shows in steppes.

Potentia

06-17-2017, 10:20 PM

Wow, do you really have actual Chinese / East Asian ancestry? :)

I thought that part of your Amerindian got confused for East Asian.

I do, yes! I've only recently learned about it. Supposedly, my 6th (?) Great-Grandfather was from China, and immigrated to Mexico. Seems as though the calculator caught it!

Potentia

06-17-2017, 10:22 PM

That's not because of higher WHG but rather higher ANE which both Euros and NA have it and consequently shows in steppes.

Possibly, however, I do only have around 29% Native American, which is represented on the calculator. So, the Steppe Ancestry is entirely representative of my European Side.

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 10:24 PM

Possibly, however, I do only have around 29% Native American, which is represented on the calculator. So, the Steppe Ancestry is entirely representative of my European Side.
Yh but the ANE in Native Americans(do they have ANE because I am assuming that they do?) could be grouped into Steppe

Lek

06-17-2017, 10:25 PM

In every calculator and pca map your are among most northern shifted albo, ofc this has to do with lower natufian and west asian, opposite of you I get above average caucasus, although I don't know why I score high caucasus?

I get high caucasus too i think. The difference between Albanians on those doesnt seem that large neither does steppe / yamnaya on some calcs? Idk ... maybe we could do a comparison for those ancient calcs :D

Potentia

06-17-2017, 10:26 PM

Yh but the ANE in Native Americans(do they have ANE because I am assuming that they do?) could be grouped into Steppe

I think Natives do, yes.

And, that is entirely possible.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:26 PM

Possibly, however, I do only have around 29% Native American, which is represented on the calculator. So, the Steppe Ancestry is entirely representative of my European Side.

I think the reason of high steppe % stems to your NA part which contains alot of ANE ancestry which also contributed alot to yamnaya people genetically.

Peterski

06-17-2017, 10:29 PM

Oszkar07:

http://i.imgur.com/e8pMZr0.png

Potentia

06-17-2017, 10:29 PM

I think the reason of high steppe % stems to your NA part which contains alot of ANE ancestry which also contributed alot to yamnaya people genetically.

I don't think that is the case, as my Native American Ancestry is accounted for in the calculator, all 29%.

Plus, compared to other Latin Americans with Native Ancestry, I still have quite a bit more Steppe Ancestry.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:30 PM

I get high caucasus too i think. The difference between Albanians on those doesnt seem that large neither does steppe / yamnaya on some calcs? Idk ... maybe we could do a comparison for those ancient calcs :D

I don't think you could beat my caucasus score in any calculator. :D

I think we should.

Peterski

06-17-2017, 10:32 PM

So I'm with highest Steppe? What's your results Litvin?

Here is what I get:

http://i.imgur.com/zFGwllV.png

Kelmendasi

06-17-2017, 10:34 PM

I don't think you could beat my caucasus score in any calculator. :D

I think we should.
Yh I think we should compare. Which calc first?

alnortedelsur

06-17-2017, 10:35 PM

Nice job. Thanks :cool:

Peterski

06-17-2017, 10:36 PM

Loki:

http://i.imgur.com/s60omYr.png

oszkar07

06-17-2017, 10:36 PM

Oszkar07:

http://i.imgur.com/e8pMZr0.png

Cool, Thanks Litvin.
What does Steppe represent in this calculator.

Kazimiera

06-17-2017, 10:39 PM

Everyone is taking advantage of Litvin..... but may I also jump on the bandwagon???? ;)

Litvin, I think you have all my results already.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:39 PM

Yh I think we should compare. Which calc first?

You choose.

Lek

06-17-2017, 10:44 PM

I don't think you could beat my caucasus score in any calculator. :D

I think we should.

Hahahaha:D

btw bro, im going to kosova somet time this summer . Do you know a nearby area where theres a boxing club or kickboxing or something. I searched on internet but these clubs have no direction for their location and doesnt even say when they train.

Peterski

06-17-2017, 10:46 PM

Cool, Thanks Litvin.
What does Steppe represent in this calculator.

"Steppe" includes the following ancient samples:

I0443 (Yamnaya culture)
RISE548 (Yamnaya culture)
RISE552 (Catacomb culture)
RISE509 (Afanasievo culture)
I0440 (Poltavka culture)
I0432 (Poltavka culture)
RISE505 (Andronovo culture)
RISE500 (Andronovo culture)
RISE395 (Sintashta culture)
RISE386 (Sintashta culture)
I0419 (Potapovka culture)
I0423 (Srubnaya culture)
I0232 (Srubnaya culture)

Lucas

06-17-2017, 10:54 PM

Here is what I get:

http://i.imgur.com/zFGwllV.png

Stil muh Steppe highest by 0,05:)

The Illyrian Warrior

06-17-2017, 10:57 PM

Hahahaha:D

btw bro, im going to kosova somet time this summer . Do you know a nearby area where theres a boxing club or kickboxing or something. I searched on internet but these clubs have no direction for their location and doesnt even say when they train.

Shit I don't know where to direct you, where exactly you plan to do vacations? Mitrovica or Prishtina?

Lek

06-17-2017, 11:09 PM

Shit I don't know where to direct you, where exactly you plan to do vacations? Mitrovica or Prishtina?

I'll be staying in my village which is in Skenderaj area but I don't live that far away from Mitrovica, Peja or Drenas.

Peterski

06-17-2017, 11:21 PM

Everyone is taking advantage of Litvin..... but may I also jump on the bandwagon???? ;)

Litvin, I think you have all my results already.

Kaz here are your results (I used K36 scores from your 23andMe kit):

http://i.imgur.com/3hHrNnl.png

Kazimiera

06-17-2017, 11:24 PM

Kaz here are your results (I used K36 scores from your 23andMe kit):

http://i.imgur.com/3hHrNnl.png

Horde of the Steppes!

:fhhorse:

Voskos

06-17-2017, 11:29 PM

I don't trust k36 test. gives me iberian, italian, and so much bullshit overall. reminds me of wegene.

Peterski

06-17-2017, 11:29 PM

I don't trust k36 test. gives me iberian, italian, and so much bullshit overall. reminds me of wegene.

Iberian and Italian were present all over Megalithic Europe.

Also in Hungary, Germany, Sweden and Ireland for example.

oszkar07

06-18-2017, 02:12 AM

"Steppe" includes the following ancient samples:

I0443 (Yamnaya culture)
RISE548 (Yamnaya culture)
RISE552 (Catacomb culture)
RISE509 (Afanasievo culture)
I0440 (Poltavka culture)
I0432 (Poltavka culture)
RISE505 (Andronovo culture)
RISE500 (Andronovo culture)
RISE395 (Sintashta culture)
RISE386 (Sintashta culture)
I0419 (Potapovka culture)
I0423 (Srubnaya culture)
I0232 (Srubnaya culture)

Thanks.
Does the Steppe result generally tend to be higher in East Europeans /Russians as opposed to West Euros,Southern and North Euro's.

Lek

06-18-2017, 03:06 AM

Can you please also do one for an Albanian friend of mine? Thanks in advance.

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 4.64
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.57
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 11.73
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 3.56
East_Med 8.61
Eastern_Euro 3.49
Fennoscandian -
French 4.10
Iberian 9.56
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 23.86
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 8.77
North_African -
North_Atlantic 4.53
North_Caucasian 1.68
North_Sea 3.48
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.43
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.02
West_Med 4.96

Erronkari

06-18-2017, 03:39 AM

Litvin: Could you run mine, please?
Thank you in advance!

Population
Amerindian 3.61
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 22.84
Central_African -
Central_Euro 0.86
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.66
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 0.39
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 0.96
French 4.29
Iberian 25.17
Indo-Chinese 0.47
Italian 12.42
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.74
North_African 1.04
North_Atlantic 11.00
North_Caucasian 0.12
North_Sea 2.71
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.19
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 1.34
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 8.19

Web site and contents ©Copyright 2011-2017 by GEDmatch, Inc.
Genealogy and DNA data remains the property of the submitter.
Each Admixture Proportions 'calculator' model remains the property of its developer.

159867 SNPs used in this evaluation

Voskos

06-18-2017, 09:30 AM

Iberian and Italian were present all over Megalithic Europe.

Also in Hungary, Germany, Sweden and Ireland for example.

yes but you cant really compare modern iberia to megalithic iberia. well you can but its not going to be 100% accurate.

Peterski

06-18-2017, 10:08 AM

Philo (Jewish):

http://i.imgur.com/9r0DqSq.png

Raine (Greek):

http://i.imgur.com/O1I5pba.png

Peterski

06-18-2017, 10:15 AM

yes but you cant really compare modern iberia to megalithic iberia.

Here is which components each ancient group scores in K36:

Megalithic - West Med, Iberian, Italian, Basque + minor components (including some French)

EastMENA - East Med, Armenian, South-Central Asia, West Caucasian, North Caucasian + minor

WestMENA - Arabian, East Med, Near Eastern, North African, NE African, West Med + minor

CHG - North Caucasian (close to 50%), West Caucasian, South-Central Asia, Armenian + minor

Thanks.
Does the Steppe result generally tend to be higher in East Europeans /Russians as opposed to West Euros,Southern and North Euro's.

"Steppe" scores are higher for East & North Euros, lower for West Euros, lower still for South Euros.

"Steppe" can include some North-East Euro hunter-gatherer ancestry as well, not only actual Steppe ancestry. It likely also includes some Neolithic farmer ancestry, but from eastern parts of Europe, things like Cucuteni-Trypillian ancestry (they mixed with Steppe people after Yamnaya). I included Andronovo, Srubna, Sintashta, Potapovka samples - and they had some admixture from Neolithic farmers as well.

Peterski

06-18-2017, 10:47 AM

Grace O'Malley (Irish):

http://i.imgur.com/ng8Gw2C.png

Peterski

06-18-2017, 11:00 AM

Litvin: Could you run mine, please?

I get "noisy" results for some people and you are one of them.

I think I know why this happens. This happens when someone has more of some component, than any of my reference samples. In your case, you have more of "Basque" - 22.84% - than any of ancient samples included in comparison. A similar problem was with a Berber user who has more of "North African" than any of ancient samples included. What happens is that the Oracle gets crazy because it doesn't know which population to use to model your ancestry, and there are stupid results (for example that Berber got 13% of Cambodian admixture LOL). I need to find more reference populations.

Anyway your results are only slightly noisy:

Megalithic 62.95%:

NE_Iberia_I0406 62.95

Steppe 27.1%:

BA_Steppe_RISE395 27.10

EastMENA 4.2%

CA_Iran_I1665a 2.35
CA_Iran_I1671 1.85

Amerindian 3.85%:

Amerind_COL 3.85

And everything below is "noise", I suppose (especially Vietnam, LOL):

Vietnam 0.90
HG_Australia_Abo 0.35
Sandawe 0.30
HG_Ethiopia_Mota 0.10
Mongola_NorthChina 0.10
SA_Khoisan 0.05
Yakut 0.05
South_Asian 0.05

Pahli

06-18-2017, 11:06 AM

Would be nice if you could do it for me as well :cool:

Arabian 4.83
Armenian 10.32
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 1.30
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 0.29
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 15.36
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 0.19
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 3.35
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 17.08
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 15.21
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 20.10
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 10.04
West_Med 1.93

Peterski

06-18-2017, 11:08 AM

Anakin,

"Vietnam" isn't noise because you have Indo-Chinese 0.47.

But the rest of that stuff below 1% seems to be just noise.

Peterski

06-18-2017, 12:05 PM

Would be nice if you could do it for me as well :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/XVHVKBs.png

Hmmm, I will remove CHG from comparison and see what happens.

I guess that you will get some extra Steppe after I remove CHG.

Lucas

06-18-2017, 12:12 PM

Seems nMonte isnt so ideal?:)

Peterski

06-18-2017, 12:17 PM

Each sample is a separate reference.

But I add percentages from the same category together. Here is what Varustana gets with CHG included (but remember that CHG is a much older population than 5000 years, I added it only because I didn't have anything more recent from the Caucasus and I thought that Caucasus should be included):

EastMENA 48.5%:

CA_Iran_I1671 26.7
CA_Iran_I1661b 10.9
CA_Iran_I1662 10.9

WestMena 22.6%:

BA_Levant_I1730 22.6

CHG 21.6%:

HG_Georgia_Satsurblia 21.6

Megalithic 4.5%:

NE_Sweden_Gokhem5 4.5

Steppe 2.8%:

CA_PIE_RISE552 2.8

=======================

After I remove CHG, I suppose that his "Steppe" and his "EastMENA" will increase.

Peterski

06-18-2017, 12:32 PM

Indeed, as expected.

After removing Kotias and Satsurblia (= my CHG samples), Varustana gets:

EastMENA 69.4%:

CA_Iran_I1661b 56.80
CA_Iran_I1674 6.95
CA_Iran_I1665a 5.65

WestMENA 12.9%:

BA_Levant_I1730 12.90

Steppe 11.95%:

CA_PIE_RISE552 11.95

Megalithic 5.75%:

NE_Sweden_Gokhem5 5.55
CA_Hungary_CO1 0.20

CHG population (Kotias and Satsurblia hunter-gatherers) is older than Steppe and than EastMENA populations, and it contributed some ancestry to both. This is why after removing CHG, it was replaced by extra Steppe and by extra EastMENA. Megalithic also increased, but just slightly.

The most dramatic increase is in Steppe. WestMENA % decreased:

Varustana:

http://i.imgur.com/5mJpVBy.png

Erronkari

06-18-2017, 12:34 PM

I get "noisy" results for some people and you are one of them.

I think I know why this happens. This happens when someone has more of some component, than any of my reference samples. In your case, you have more of "Basque" - 22.84% - than any of ancient samples included in comparison. A similar problem was with a Berber user who has more of "North African" than any of ancient samples included. What happens is that the Oracle gets crazy because it doesn't know which population to use to model your ancestry, and there are stupid results (for example that Berber got 13% of Cambodian admixture LOL). I need to find more reference populations.

Anyway your results are only slightly noisy:

Megalithic 62.95%:

NE_Iberia_I0406 62.95

Steppe 27.1%:

BA_Steppe_RISE395 27.10

EastMENA 4.2%

CA_Iran_I1665a 2.35
CA_Iran_I1671 1.85

Amerindian 3.85%:

Amerind_COL 3.85

And everything below is "noise", I suppose (especially Vietnam, LOL):

Vietnam 0.90
HG_Australia_Abo 0.35
Sandawe 0.30
HG_Ethiopia_Mota 0.10
Mongola_NorthChina 0.10
SA_Khoisan 0.05
Yakut 0.05
South_Asian 0.05

Excellent bro! And yes... I think that I have a far East Asian Contribution.
Because DNA LAND for example gives me 1.1% Indo-China, and my Amerindian is among 3 and 4%, very little to carry 1% asian like other cases with bigger native american amounts. So, it must be real.
The case of the "noises", don't worry, I see the same situation in many Gedmatch Calculators.
I repeat, I find this really accurate and interesting! Thank you very much! ;)

Peterski

06-18-2017, 12:37 PM

Megalithic = DNA from Middle Neolithic and Copper Age Europe.

It is descended from Early Neolithic Anatolians and western WHG. So there is no surprise that Varustana gets it - it could be from ancient Anatolia, not necessarily directly from Europe.

Maybe I will add also Copper Age Anatolian samples later on.

Seems nMonte isnt so ideal?:)

Yes but mainly because the sample set is not ideal. :p

Lek

06-18-2017, 12:48 PM

Kazimiera

06-18-2017, 12:55 PM

Litivin, I'm sorry if I'm asking the obvious here, but why is my Steppe percentage so high?

Peterski

06-18-2017, 01:07 PM

So CHG falls into steppe?

Not entirely, but some part of it falls into Steppe.

Here is what you get after I remove CHG (your Steppe increases but EastMENA too):

http://i.imgur.com/FrfQGDx.png

firemonkey

06-18-2017, 01:30 PM

Can you do mine please?

Population
Amerindian 0.10%
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 2.22%
Central_African 0.18%
Central_Euro 4.57%
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.59%
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 3.32%
Fennoscandian 11.39%
French 7.32%
Iberian 13.04%
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 3.32%
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 20.60%
North_Caucasian 3.77%
North_Sea 23.26%
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic 0.11%
Pygmy 0.06%
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.59%
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.54%

Peterski

06-18-2017, 01:32 PM

Litivin, I'm sorry if I'm asking the obvious here, but why is my Steppe percentage so high?

Because you share a lot of your K36 admixtures with Steppe samples:

Your results (bolded text = admixtures typical for Steppe samples):

CA = Copper Age
BA = Bronze Age

Population
Amerindian 0.15
Basque 1.45
Central_African 0.20
Central_Euro 8.31 ---> partly BA Steppe & partly Megalithic
East_Balkan 2.08 ---> partly Megalithic & partly BA Steppe
East_Central_Euro 16.76 ---> only CA/BA Steppe
Eastern_Euro 7.86 ---> only CA/BA Steppe
Fennoscandian 8.86 ---> only CA/BA Steppe
French 5.23 ---> partly BA Steppe & partly Megalithic
Iberian 3.47
Italian 7.14
North_Atlantic 13.82 ---> only CA/BA Steppe
North_Caucasian 0.74 ---> mostly CA Steppe & CHG, partly EastMENA
North_Sea 16.41 ---> mostly BA Steppe, less of it in CA Steppe
Oceanian 1.05
Omotic 0.13
South_Central_Asian 1.73 ---> partly CA Steppe & CHG, mostly EastMENA
Volga-Ural 1.37 ---> only CA/BA Steppe
West_African 2.06
West_Caucasian 1.16

East Balkan, Central Euro and French are present in Bronze Age Steppe samples, but not in Copper Age Steppe samples. So they are probably Neolithic admixtures in Post-Yamnaya Steppe.

North Caucasian is very high in Copper Age Steppe, but declines in Bronze Age Steppe. And it is also present in CHG (almost 50% of CHG is North Caucasian) and in small amount in EastMENA.

==============

Check:

http://i.imgur.com/MguLYWU.png

http://i.imgur.com/MguLYWU.png

Pahli

06-18-2017, 01:47 PM

http://i.imgur.com/XVHVKBs.png

Hmmm, I will remove CHG from comparison and see what happens.

I guess that you will get some extra Steppe after I remove CHG.

NVM

Peterski

06-18-2017, 02:07 PM

NVM

The second model (without CHG) is better for you I think. You get RISE552 as your best Steppe match, because RISE552 scores 24% North Caucasian and 16% South-Central Asian - more than other Steppe samples that I used. RISE552 is Catacomb or Late Yamnaya culture. Interesting.

Maybe Steppe ancestry of Kurds is mostly from Catacomb culture?

======================

As for "North Caucasian" admixture in Eurogenes K36:

Caucasus hunters (2 samples) = 44-46% North Caucasian admixture
Copper Age Steppe (5 samples) = 19-24% North Caucasian admixture
Ancient Iranians (9 samples) = 0-14% North Caucasian admixture

So maybe North Caucasian is not native to Iran?

My Iranian samples are Neolithic and Copper Age.

Ancient Iranians I1290, I1671 and I1665 get 0% North Caucasian.

The remaining 6 samples get between 3% and 14%.

Pahli

06-18-2017, 02:16 PM

The second model (without CHG) is better for you I think. You get RISE552 as your best Steppe match, because RISE552 scores 24% North Caucasian and 16% South-Central Asian - more than other Steppe samples that I used. RISE552 is Catacomb or Late Yamnaya culture. Interesting.

Maybe Steppe ancestry of Kurds is mostly from Catacomb culture?

======================

As for "North Caucasian" admixture in Eurogenes K36:

Caucasus hunters (2 samples) = 44-46% North Caucasian admixture
Copper Age Steppe (5 samples) = 19-24% North Caucasian admixture
Ancient Iranians (9 samples) = 0-14% North Caucasian admixture

So maybe North Caucasian is not native to Iran?

My Iranian samples are Neolithic and Copper Age.

Ancient Iranians I1290, I1671 and I11665 get 0% North Caucasian.

The remaining 6 samples get between 3% and 14%.

Its Andronovan heavily mixed with BMAC I think, but we don't have any samples of the BMAC culture yet, although its probably related to Brahui people genetically and linguistically

Peterski

06-18-2017, 02:17 PM

Its actually Andronovan heavily mixed with BMAC I think

Maybe BMAC was like Andronovo + CHG + something.

Anyway - after I remove CHG, your Steppe increases.

=========================

BTW, I just uploaded Sarmatian sample to GEDmatch:

Early Sarmatian, Russia, Pokrovka [PR3 / I0575], 500-200 BC.

Here are his Eurogenes K36 results:

Population
Amerindian 1.91
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 1.64
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian 0.86
East_Central_Euro 7.71
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.91
Fennoscandian 10.77
French 5.05
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 10.02
North_Caucasian 15.24
North_Sea 8.63
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 3.79
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 19.31
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 5.17
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Pahli

06-18-2017, 02:20 PM

Maybe BMAC was like Andronovo + CHG + something.

Anyway - after I remove CHG, your Steppe increases.

Question; Where is the CHG component from in Yamnaya? Is it only North Caucasian or also mixed with Iran_N / Iran_C?

Peterski

06-18-2017, 02:27 PM

Question; Where is the CHG component from in Yamnaya? Is it only North Caucasian or also mixed with Iran_N / Iran_C?

I think it is partially from CHG and partially from Iran.

Or from some intermediate population between them.

Pahli

06-18-2017, 02:32 PM

BTW, I just uploaded Sarmatian sample to GEDmatch:

Early Sarmatian, Russia, Pokrovka [PR3 / I0575], 500-200 BC.

Gedmatch number? :D

Peterski

06-18-2017, 02:36 PM

Gedmatch number? :D

T238094 I0575 Sarmatian Pokrovka 500-200 BC

firemonkey

06-18-2017, 02:40 PM

I guess you have stopped doing these for people :(

Peterski

06-18-2017, 02:42 PM

Sarmatian Pokrovka in K36 Ancient nMonte:

CA = Copper Age
BA = Bronze Age
NE = Neolithic
ME = Mesolithic

CA_Steppe_RISE552 45.10 (this is Catacomb)
BA_Steppe_RISE505 33.60 (this is Andronovo)
NE_Iran_I1290 7.40
ME_Iran_I1293 6.00
Nenets_Forest 5.15
South_Amerind 1.05
Mongola_NorthChina 0.80
NE_Iberia_I0408 0.50
Amerind_COL 0.25
North_Amerind 0.15

Nenets_Forest is what represents Siberian. :p

Pahli

06-18-2017, 02:51 PM

T238094 I0575 Sarmatian Pokrovka 500-200 BC

Comes out mostly as 50/50 Baltic and Tajik in oracles in most of the calculators I used, similar to the Scythian samples we already have

Not a Cop

06-18-2017, 03:28 PM

Comes out mostly as 50/50 Baltic and Tajik in oracles in most of the calculators I used, similar to the Scythian samples we already have

So Sythians were mainly Yamnoids with CHG and Siberian admix from what i understand?

Lek

06-18-2017, 03:53 PM

Not entirely, but some part of it falls into Steppe.

Here is what you get after I remove CHG (your Steppe increases but EastMENA too):

http://i.imgur.com/FrfQGDx.png

Damn :D

firemonkey

06-18-2017, 04:00 PM

Can you do mine please?

Peterski

06-18-2017, 04:29 PM

Can you do mine please?

I will do everyone but wait a bit because now I'm checking some Non-European samples.

Gladiator from Roman era York / Eburacum (he was born in MENA areas):

3DRIF26 Gladiator York 100-400 AD:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 19.55
Armenian 5.96
Basque 0.38
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 24.78
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 0.61
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 2.25
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 29.35
North_African 6.08
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 5.41
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 2.08
West_Med 3.55

Nehellenia

06-18-2017, 04:35 PM

Ok, heres mine..

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 4.03
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.36
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 1.14
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 3.88
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 8.46
Fennoscandian 9.74
French 7.46
Iberian 10.93
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 7.78
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 17.55
North_Caucasian 1.46
North_Sea 17.59
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 1.06
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.16
West_African -
West_Caucasian 0.42
West_Med -

Petalpusher

06-18-2017, 04:36 PM

Question; Where is the CHG component from in Yamnaya? Is it only North Caucasian or also mixed with Iran_N / Iran_C?

Eurogenes successfully managed to also model it as EHG + Iran_Chl, which makes more sense than something 10ky old like CHG.

Lucas

06-18-2017, 04:44 PM

I will do everyone but wait a bit because now I'm checking some Non-European samples.

Gladiator from Roman era York / Eburacum (he was born in MENA areas):

3DRIF26 Gladiator York 100-400 AD:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 19.55
Armenian 5.96
Basque 0.38
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 24.78
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 0.61
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 2.25
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 29.35
North_African 6.08
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 5.41
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 2.08
West_Med 3.55

Probably from Palestine:) Jewish slave presumably.

https://s16.postimg.org/x0bionxh1/eburacum.jpg

Lucas

06-18-2017, 04:48 PM

Maybe BMAC was like Andronovo + CHG + something.

Anyway - after I remove CHG, your Steppe increases.

=========================

BTW, I just uploaded Sarmatian sample to GEDmatch:

Early Sarmatian, Russia, Pokrovka [PR3 / I0575], 500-200 BC.

Here are his Eurogenes K36 results:

Population
Amerindian 1.91
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 1.64
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian 0.86
East_Central_Euro 7.71
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.91
Fennoscandian 10.77
French 5.05
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 10.02
North_Caucasian 15.24
North_Sea 8.63
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 3.79
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 19.31
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 5.17
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

In modern K36 oracle-spreadsheet. So Turkmens are Sarmatian in ancestry which is not suprising.

https://s4.postimg.org/vnxu6hw0d/sarmat.jpg

Peterski

06-18-2017, 04:49 PM

Gladiator from Roman era York / Eburacum (he was born in MENA areas)

He could be from Egypt (if modern Egyptians are similar to Roman era Egyptians):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?212925-Gladiator-from-ancient-York-could-be-Egyptian&p=4462529&viewfull=1#post4462529

In modern K36 oracle-spreadsheet.

Do this for that MENA gladiator as well. :)

Lucas

06-18-2017, 04:51 PM

He could be from Egypt (if modern Egyptians are similar to Egyptians from Roman times):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?212925-Gladiator-from-ancient-York-could-be-Egyptian&p=4462529&viewfull=1#post4462529

Nope. Palestine with minor Levant is obvious. Tolan map is something different I have no idea what he used for Egypt. Certianly not may average.

Lucas

06-18-2017, 04:52 PM

He could be from Egypt (if modern Egyptians are similar to Roman era Egyptians):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?212925-Gladiator-from-ancient-York-could-be-Egyptian&p=4462529&viewfull=1#post4462529

Do this for that MENA gladiator as well. :)

Look above

Lucas

06-18-2017, 04:53 PM

He could be a Samaritan!:

K36 nMonte Modern for MENA gladiator:

menagladiator

Samaritan 44.50
Egypt 38.75
Saudi 8.90
Bedouin_ISR 2.40
Druze 2.25
Iraqi_Jews 1.55
Morocco 0.60
Palestina 0.35
Yemen_North 0.35
Levant 0.20
Algeria 0.15

K36 nMonte Ancient for MENA gladiator:

menagladiator

BA_Levant_I1730 61.5
CA_Iran_I1665b 18.9
NE_Natufians 13.4
Sandawe 5.0
NE_Sweden_Gokhem5 1.2

You are captian obvious or what?:) I made oracle-spreadhseet with that post above:) Too late... I was first.

But I must repeat it...

https://s16.postimg.org/x0bionxh1/eburacum.jpg

War Chef

06-18-2017, 04:53 PM

Can you do mine when you have the time?

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 5.21
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 5.01
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.24
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 11.09
East_Med 7.16
Eastern_Euro 6.64
Fennoscandian 6.96
French 0.20
Iberian 2.97
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 10.79
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 3.69
North_Caucasian 24.36
North_Sea 7.88
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 0.45
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.61
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.70
West_Med -

Peterski

06-18-2017, 05:01 PM

Similarity of 3DRIF26 Gladiator from York (100-400 AD) to modern populations:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude2.htm

https://i.imgur.com/LC24QKt.png

https://i.imgur.com/3W1tygd.png

His similarity to modern Egyptians in K36 is 87%:

https://i.imgur.com/RZHXg3P.png

K36 nMonte Modern for this gladiator:

3DRIF26

Samaritan 44.50
Egypt 38.75
Saudi 8.90
Bedouin_ISR 2.40
Druze 2.25
Iraqi_Jews 1.55
Morocco 0.60
Palestina 0.35
Yemen_North 0.35
Levant 0.20
Algeria 0.15

K36 nMonte Ancient for this gladiator:

https://i.imgur.com/NS3otG8.png

I made oracle-spreadhseet with that post above

I didn't notice your post.

He could be Samaritan, or something intermediate between Samaritans and Copts?

Lucas

06-18-2017, 05:17 PM

K36 nMonte Ancient for this gladiator:

https://i.imgur.com/NS3otG8.png

I didn't notice your post.

He could be Samaritan, or something intermediate between Samaritans and Copts?

Modern Samaritans preserved old Jewish genetic characteristics maybe. So he could be standard Jewish person from Palestine in that times. With some shift to what is modern Egypt. But my reference was based on standard Egyptians not Copts alone (there is one Copt only in average out of many kits).

Peterski

06-18-2017, 10:01 PM

Modern Samaritans preserved old Jewish genetic characteristics maybe. So he could be standard Jewish person from Palestine in that times. With some shift to what is modern Egypt. But my reference was based on standard Egyptians not Copts alone (there is one Copt only in average out of many kits).

But Gaussian method gives him Egypt:

Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Egypt @ 3,351597

Here is what the study says about him:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10326

"(...) One York Roman 3DRIF-26 gives a clear Middle Eastern signal, with closest neighbours of Palestinian, Jordanian and Syrian origin. (...) 3DRIF-26 shows a majority West Asian/Middle Eastern component. Isotopic analyses of the skeletons support this genetic differentiation of 3DRIF-26 from the remainder of the individuals sampled. Strontium isotope ratios (87Sr/86Sr) vary mainly according to geological substrate, while oxygen isotope values (∂18O), which track locally available drinking water, reflect climatic and geographic variables such as temperature, rainfall levels or distance from the coast22. When we compared these ratios in our seven samples with other British Romans, 3DRIF-26 showed both an unusually low 87Sr/86Sr ratio and an extreme ∂18Op value (Supplementary Fig. 2). (...) 3DRIF-26 showed highest IBS with samples from Saudi Arabia. (...) assignment of 3DRIF-26 to the Middle East region seems secure, but resolution to an individual population may not be possible. (...)"

More info from Supplementary Figures:

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2016/160119/ncomms10326/extref/ncomms10326-s1.pdf

http://i.imgur.com/akVvBVZ.png
http://i.imgur.com/QGDfKiv.png
http://i.imgur.com/YPymfzp.png
http://i.imgur.com/gfaSpB1.png

Peterski

06-18-2017, 10:09 PM

How about this:

Maybe he was of mixed descent, from Jewish Diaspora in Egypt + local Egyptians?

There were Jews in Egypt.

=================

Edit:

Maybe ancient Egyptians were more Samaritan-like due to having less of SSA admixture?:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/ancient-egyptians-less-sub-saharan-than.html

(...) The samples recovered from Middle Egypt span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the New Kingdom to the Roman Period. Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. (...)

Maybe SSA admixture increased in Post-Roman times due to Muslim slave trade in Africa.

Dema

06-18-2017, 10:45 PM

About Gladiator, there is nothing that we already didnt know.. Whats matters is he is J2b1. His autosomal due to many relatives can only make things uncertain.

To know more there should be released his Ydna str markers.. All other is only speculating..

Dema

06-18-2017, 10:49 PM

Probably from Palestine:) Jewish slave presumably.

Thats a big hypothesis to throw just looking at his autosomal..

He was Levantine, that much we know but you cant know was he slave or Jewish slave rofl... You went little too far..

He was a gladiator, that much we know..

Lek

06-18-2017, 10:52 PM

Thats a big hypothesis to throw just looking at his autosomal..

He was Levantine, that much we know but you cant know was he slave or Jewish slave rofl... You went little too far..

He was a gladiator, that much we know..

Gladiators were slaves that fought in stadiums for entertainment and to win their freedom. But this guy could of been a soldier, no?

Spartacus was a known Ilyrian/Thracian gladiator

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:03 PM

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:06 PM

Thats a big hypothesis to throw just looking at his autosomal..

He was Levantine, that much we know but you cant know was he slave or Jewish slave rofl... You went little too far..

He was a gladiator, that much we know..
Jews are native Levantines/Canaanites so linking him to them isn't too far fetched. He also is closest to Samaritans genetically, who are israelites/Hebrews like Jews

Dema

06-18-2017, 11:11 PM

Gladiators were slaves that fought in stadiums for entertainment and to win their freedom. But this guy could of been a soldier, no?

Spartacus was a known Ilyrian/Thracian gladiator

Thats not important even if he was a soldier or slave, what is important is he scores 75% West Mena, just the area of Fertile Crescent where his haplo J2b1 16 000 years old has largest diversity and most likely origin + first expansion.

He was native from Fertile Crescent with same autosomal components.

Besides York England, its found in Early Bronze age Jordan, Neolithic Iran, Bronze age Lebanon, and recently in Ancient Egypt but that was most likely some expansion.

He could be remains of Sumerians or earlier all down to Assyrians..

Here you can read article about it - https://j2-m172.info/2016/10/possibly-j2b1-m205-basal-structure-defined-cts1969-cts5338-yp13-ph4306-ph1089-y22066/

I would really like to see his str markers.. But there is no big surprise he scores these areas since we already knew he is Levantine Roman gladiator. He was kinda exotic in England..

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:18 PM

Thats not important even if he was a soldier or slave, what is important is he scores 75% West Mena, just the area of Fertile Crescent where his haplo J2b1 16 000 years old has largest diversity and most likely origin + first expansion.

He was native from Fertile Crescent with same autosomal components.

Besides York England, its found in Early Bronze age Jordan, Neolithic Iran, Bronze age Lebanon, and recently in Ancient Egypt but that was most likely some expansion.

He could be remains of Sumerians or earlier all down to Assyrians..

Here you can read article about it - https://j2-m172.info/2016/10/possibly-j2b1-m205-basal-structure-defined-cts1969-cts5338-yp13-ph4306-ph1089-y22066/

I would really like to see his str markers.. But there is no big surprise he scores these areas since we already knew he is Levantine Roman gladiator. He was kinda exotic in England..
I am 99% sure that he was Semetic speaking but still a native genetically to the Levant. I doubt that he was a Sumerian as he is more west MENA genetically i.e the region of the Levant rather than east MENA which seems to encompass Sumer, also the Sumerians went "extinct"(as an etnic group not genetically) in the century BC and not AD

Lek

06-18-2017, 11:22 PM

Thats not important even if he was a soldier or slave, what is important is he scores 75% West Mena, just the area of Fertile Crescent where his haplo J2b1 16 000 years old has largest diversity and most likely origin + first expansion.

He was native from Fertile Crescent with same autosomal components.

Besides York England, its found in Early Bronze age Jordan, Neolithic Iran, Bronze age Lebanon, and recently in Ancient Egypt but that was most likely some expansion.

He could be remains of Sumerians or earlier all down to Assyrians..

Here you can read article about it - https://j2-m172.info/2016/10/possibly-j2b1-m205-basal-structure-defined-cts1969-cts5338-yp13-ph4306-ph1089-y22066/

I would really like to see his str markers.. But there is no big surprise he scores these areas since we already knew he is Levantine Roman gladiator. He was kinda exotic in England..

Theres a difference between a gladiator and soldier though. And if it got to Britain how did it get to balkans .Several people who belonged to this or left some family/wife there?

To me seems like we're looking at a soldier, but who knows.

I think Gladiators were more bad ass. So if he was a soldier it doesn't make you as badass tbh since he was not a gladiator . Therefor you cannot really claim to have a badass lineage. Its just my opinion , man. Dont take it personal.

Dema

06-18-2017, 11:24 PM

I am 99% sure that he was Semetic speaking but still a native genetically to the Levant. I doubt that he was a Sumerian as he is more west MENA genetically i.e the region of the Levant rather than east MENA which seems to encompass Sumer, also the Sumerians went "extinct"(as an etnic group not genetically) in the century BC and not AD

Maybe he was Semitic speaking, but for sure not Semitic in origin. Or at least not in distant origin.

No one is saying that he couldn't been later assimilated in Semitic groups.. But his origin from Fertile Crescent is Pre Semitic.

Dema

06-18-2017, 11:25 PM

Theres a difference between a gladiator and soldier though. And if it got to Britain how did it get to balkans .Several people who belonged to this or left some family/wife there?

To me seems like we're looking at a soldier, but who knows.

I think Gladiators were more bad ass. So if he was a soldier it doesn't make you as badass tbh since he was not a gladiator . Therefor you cannot really claim to have a badass lineage. Its just my opinion , man. Dont take it personal.

I dont take it personal, its all ok, just it sounded degrading saying for him that he was a Jewish slave..

Peterski

06-18-2017, 11:27 PM

Here is what he gets in puntDNAL K13 Global:

Kit T897383

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Egyptian_Copts 5.72
2 Palestinian 8.57
3 Samaritan_Jew 9.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.6% Egyptian_Copts + 37.4% Samaritan_Jew @ 2.31

So once again he gets a mixture of Samaritans and Egyptians.

In some other calculators he gets 2/3 Samaritan + 1/3 Egypt.

His Y-DNA haplogroup has been found in:

1) Bronze Age Jordan
2) Bronze Age Sidon
3) Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:34 PM

Maybe he was Semitic speaking, but for sure not Semitic in origin. Or at least not in distant origin.

No one is saying that he couldn't been later assimilated in Semitic groups.. But his origin from Fertile Crescent is Pre Semitic.
Yh he definitely was a native there just like most people that live/lived there. Tbh I don't think that the proto-Semites were genetically different from the pre-Semites in the region as Semites originated in the Levant

Peterski

06-18-2017, 11:35 PM

Dema, where was this Y-DNA found in ancient DNA?

Anywhere else apart from those 3 areas I mentioned?

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:38 PM

Peterski

06-18-2017, 11:42 PM

I wonder if he was born within the Roman Empire, or in Non-Roman areas, behind Limes?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Arabicus

Peterski

06-18-2017, 11:44 PM

Yh he definitely was a native there just like most people that live/lived there. Tbh I don't think that the proto-Semites were genetically different from the pre-Semites in the region as Semites originated in the Levant

Actually Jews claim that they originated to the east of the Levant:

"(...) Hebrew history, as told by the Hebrews, begins in Mesopotamia, in the cities of Ur in the south and Haran in the north. (...)"

They later invaded the Levant, coming from the east or north-east:

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/2015/01/cli398005.shtml

The book of Joshua in the Hebrew Bible describes in detail the conquest of Canaanite cities by the invading [from the east!] Israelites. Based on this account, one might have expected to find evidence of wholesale destruction at the Canaanite sites that have been excavated, such as Hazor, Megiddo, Lachish, Bethel, Ai, and so on. We need to keep in mind, though, the somewhat conflicting account in the book of Judges, which gives a slightly different (lengthier and less bloody) picture of the conquest, in which the Israelites and the Canaanites lived together in the various cities. Perhaps even more importantly, when discussing not only the rise of Israel but also Philistia, we must also keep in mind the larger picture, for the entire interconnected world of the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean was destroyed and collapsed in the decades following 1200 BC. It is only with the demise of the Great Kingdoms that flourished during the Late Bronze Age that Israel, Philistia, and Phoenicia arose in the land that was once called Canaan.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/a-homeland-but-not-homeland.html

Habiru = Hebrews (Proto-Jews) lived in Mesopotamia before they moved to Canaan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan#Late_Bronze_Age_.281550.E2.80.931200.29

Under Thutmose III (1479–1426 BC) and Amenhotep II (1427–1400 BC), the regular presence of the strong hand of the Egyptian ruler and his armies kept the Amorites and Canaanites sufficiently loyal. Nevertheless, Thutmose III reported a new and troubling element in the population. Habiru or (in Egyptian) 'Apiru, are reported for the first time. These seem to have been mercenaries, brigands or outlaws, who may have at one time led a settled life, but with bad-luck or due to the force of circumstances, contributed a rootless element of the population, prepared to hire themselves to whichever local mayor, king or princeling prepared to undertake their support.

Although Habiru SA-GAZ (a Sumerian ideogram glossed as "brigand" in Akkadian), and sometimes Habiri (an Akkadian word) had been reported in Mesopotamia from the reign of the Sumerian king, Shulgi of Ur III, their [later] appearance in Canaan (...)

This might explain why Jews score more EastMENA than WestMENA.

Here is Philo (is he Sephardic, Ashkenazi, or something else?):

http://i.imgur.com/9r0DqSq.png

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:47 PM

Actually Jews claim that they originated to the east of the Levant:

"(...) Hebrew history, as told by the Hebrews, begins in Mesopotamia, in the cities of Ur in the south and Haran in the north. (...)"

They later invaded the Levant, coming from the east or north-east:

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/2015/01/cli398005.shtml
True, they claim that their patriarch was from Sumer, which could be true since J1-P58 which Israelites have seems to have expqnded from there. Still though the Semetic languages originated in the Levant AFAIK

War Chef

06-18-2017, 11:49 PM

I wonder if he was born within the Roman Empire, or in Non-Roman areas, behind Limes?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Arabicus

Your understanding of Rome isn't that great. "Limes" isn't a place, it just means "frontier".

You say it like it's a town or something haha

Kelmendasi

06-18-2017, 11:51 PM

I wonder if he was born within the Roman Empire, or in Non-Roman areas, behind Limes?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Arabicus
Possible since there is speculation that he could of been a Nabatean who were a Semetic tribe who lived in the Sinai which if I recall correctly was outside of the limes

Dema

06-19-2017, 12:03 AM

Dema, where was this Y-DNA found in ancient DNA?

Anywhere else apart from those 3 areas I mentioned?

from Jordan looks like - https://j2-m172.info/2016/06/first-ancient-j2-from-iran-mesolithic-copper-age-and-levant-bronze-age-lazaridis-et-al-first-farmers/

And Gladiator clusters with Jordan sample

https://j2-m172.info/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/06/PCAtest2_Eurogenes_2016-06-23_detail-Levant.png

Peterski

06-19-2017, 12:11 AM

Between Copts and Samaritans:

http://i.imgur.com/G29yWms.png

Dema

06-19-2017, 12:39 AM

Ancient J2b1 as far as i know:

Jordan - https://j2-m172.info/2016/06/first-ancient-j2-from-iran-mesolithic-copper-age-and-levant-bronze-age-lazaridis-et-al-first-farmers/

York (Levantine autosomal) - https://j2-m172.info/2016/01/exogenous-roman-era-york-3drif-26-is-j2b1-m205-and-likely-middle-eastener/

Lebanon - http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/26/142448

Ancient Egypt - https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

Early Neolithic Iran - J2b-M12 ( extinct brother clade to J2b1-M205 and J2b2-Z575) - https://j2-m172.info/2016/07/ancient-zagros-j2b-iran-abdul-hosein-early-neolithic-broushaki-et-al/

Peterski

06-19-2017, 12:41 AM

Natufians were E1b and had no any J if I remember correctly.

So J2 probably came to the Levant after Early Neolithic times.

Lek

06-19-2017, 12:48 AM

I dont take it personal, its all ok, just it sounded degrading saying for him that he was a Jewish slave..

Im just breaking your balls my nigga

Lek

06-19-2017, 12:49 AM

Ancient J2b1 as far as i know:

Jordan - https://j2-m172.info/2016/06/first-ancient-j2-from-iran-mesolithic-copper-age-and-levant-bronze-age-lazaridis-et-al-first-farmers/

York (Levantine autosomal) - https://j2-m172.info/2016/01/exogenous-roman-era-york-3drif-26-is-j2b1-m205-and-likely-middle-eastener/

Lebanon - http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/26/142448

Ancient Egypt - https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

Early Neolithic Iran - J2b (Ancestor of J2b1 and J2b2-Z575) - https://j2-m172.info/2016/07/ancient-zagros-j2b-iran-abdul-hosein-early-neolithic-broushaki-et-al/

Albanians who match you but who are not j2b1, you think its possible they got some j2b1 in them?

Dema

06-19-2017, 01:03 AM

Albanians who match you but who are not j2b1, you think its possible they got some j2b1 in them?

What means to have some j2b1 in someone :D

As far as we believe J2b1 has arrived in times of Roman Empire in Balkan. At least clade where i fall in PH4306>Y22066.

All under this clade most likely come out of a single Levantine man in times of Rome.

Since these times our Levantine nooble ancient blood has sadly wash out.. Now we score classic Balkan components..

Even tho i get unusual 2% N Africa and 1% Jewish on Family Finder which is reported to go 2000 years back.

Our TMRCA based on calculators is around 1700 years, but maybe even more we will see in future...

There is also around 70 South Slavic families that carry this Ydna and their TMRCA is around 1000 years, meaning they all come out of a single man who lived at maximum of 1000 years ago and he was not Slav.

Our closest relatives outside Balkan are in Qatar, Lebanon, Armenia, Jordan, Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Jewish...

https://j2-m172.info/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/10/J2b1-M205-research-tree_2016-11a.png

Lek

06-19-2017, 01:15 AM

What means to have some j2b1 in someone :D

As far as we believe J2b1 has arrived in times of Roman Empire in Balkan. At least clade where i fall in PH4306>Y22066.

All under this clade most likely come out of a single Levantine man in times of Rome.

Since these times our Levantine nooble ancient blood has sadly wash out.. Now we score classic Balkan components..

Even tho i get unusual 2% N Africa and 1% Jewish on Family Finder which is reported to go 2000 years back.

Our TMRCA based on calculators is around 1700 years, but maybe even more we will see in future...

There is also around 70 South Slavic families that carry this Ydna and their TMRCA is around 1000 years, meaning they all come out of a single man who lived at maximum of 1000 years ago and he was not Slav.

Our closest relatives outside Balkan are in Qatar, Lebanon, Armenia, Jordan, Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Jewish...

https://j2-m172.info/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/10/J2b1-M205-research-tree_2016-11a.png

Ftdna autosomaldoesnt go 2000 years back. It goes 1000 years and maximum 1300. I asked them myself and thats what they told me.

Albanians who match you, could they have j2b1 lineages somewhere among their families?

Washed out and washed out... we dont really know how much migration there was into balkans or not during that time... and there were also settlements from other parts of europe

But its weird how they come from one single person who lived 1000 years ago... Rome collapsed way before that and if this persons ancestors came during rome than some other relatives must be out there too as his ancestors must of reproduced

Lek

06-19-2017, 01:17 AM

Ahhh i misread your post about what i wrote in the last part nvm

Dema

06-19-2017, 01:20 AM

Ahhh i misread your post about what i wrote in the last part nvm

Look, FTDNA goes 2000 years back, we already have confirmation from FTDNA information specialist.

Also i seen second confirmation about this recently if you want link i can show you, its 2000 years or 80 generations. This is official from FTDNA.

Dema

06-19-2017, 01:39 AM

But its weird how they come from one single person who lived 1000 years ago... Rome collapsed way before that and if this persons ancestors came during rome than some other relatives must be out there too as his ancestors must of reproduced

I know, line is here from Roman time but guy they all come from lived later, like 1000 years ago.

Lyla - Information Specialist, Family Tree DNA.

Explained that people people scoring 1 - 2% unusual trace elements could be due to fact that FTDNA test for 80 generations or 2000 years back.

So its old components showing up.....

I seen this later and its just exact the same what she said...

http://i.imgur.com/6q2X3vx.png

Lek

06-19-2017, 03:47 AM

Look, FTDNA goes 2000 years back, we already have confirmation from FTDNA information specialist.

Also i seen second confirmation about this recently if you want link i can show you, its 2000 years or 80 generations. This is official from FTDNA.

Information specialist? Lol.

Yeah. Show me.

Then I wouldnt trust them because to me they said 1000-1300 years . This was right before their update. I contacted them personally on their official facebook page so I got confirmation too and even took a screenshot but deleted it later.

This was before any of you even had a clue about these things or how back it goes.

And now suddenly 2000 years but with no MENA and East Euro lol ok.

I also asked 23andme and they said 500 years.

Anyway man. Idgaf have fun

Dema

06-19-2017, 09:53 AM

Information specialist? Lol.

Yeah. Show me.

Then I wouldnt trust them because to me they said 1000-1300 years . This was right before their update. I contacted them personally on their official facebook page so I got confirmation too and even took a screenshot but deleted it later.

This was before any of you even had a clue about these things or how back it goes.

And now suddenly 2000 years but with no MENA and East Euro lol ok.

I also asked 23andme and they said 500 years.

Anyway man. Idgaf have fun

I deleted email by accident but its TA user Enflame who sent it to me.. That is how she explained to him why people score trace elements because test goes 2000 or 80 gens back.

For link to this pic we would have to ask Kelmendasi where he found it.

But what is important that these two go together with each other and maybe they dont always test 2000 years back but at least that is what they officially say now.

Autosomals look like little random and unique to every person so it all depends what genetics you pulled from fathers and mothers genetic pools and how they interpret it.

For me this is priority: YDNA > Autosomal > mtDNA

Best regards :drink4:

Voskos

06-19-2017, 09:57 AM

i saw that email myself it says 2000 years back indeed.

Karol Klačansky

06-19-2017, 11:06 AM

Litvin, can you do my results

Population
Amerindian-
Arabian-
Armenian 0.21
Basque 1.52
Central_African-
Central_Euro 5.72
East_African-
East_Asian-
East_Balkan 3.89
East_Central_Asian-
East_Central_Euro 14.00
East_Med 2.42
Eastern_Euro 14.84
Fennoscandian 11.68
French 6.26
Iberian 12.32
Indo-Chinese-
Italian 2.34
Malayan-
Near_Eastern-
North_African-
North_Atlantic 8.11
North_Caucasian-
North_Sea 15.06
Northeast_African-
Oceanian-
Omotic-
Pygmy-
Siberian-
South_Asian-
South_Central_Asian-
South_Chinese-
Volga-Ural 1.63
West_African-
West_Caucasian-
West_Med-

Peterski

06-19-2017, 03:13 PM

Hey I will do this for everyone who requested but give me some time.

Now I created a similar K36 Ancient Oracle, but for ~2500 years ago.

See how it works, here Norb's results for ~5000 and ~2500 years ago:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?212016-My-Eurogenes-Admixture-Proportions-GEDmatch-results-what-do-they-tell-you&p=4464054&viewfull=1#post4464054

Norb,

Based on K36, I get this for you (when trying to model your as a mix of ancient samples):

1) Your ancestry 5000 years ago (1st model):

Steppe ------------------ 65.95%
Megalithic --------------- 33.95%
Siberian ------------------ 0.1%

2) Your ancestry 2500 years ago (1st model):

Celtic Britons ----------- 54.30%
Germanic/Nordic ------ 39.05%
Scytho-Sarmatian ----- 4.70%
South European -------- 1.75%
Middle Eastern --------- 0.20%

2) Your ancestry 2500 years ago (2nd model):

Celtic Britons ----------- 51.45%
Germanic/Nordic ------ 37.65%
Balto-Slavic ------------ 5.30%
Scytho-Sarmatian ----- 2.85%
South European -------- 2.25%
Middle Eastern --------- 0.50%

Norb is English (or at least this is what the flag in his profile indicates?).

Kelmendasi

06-19-2017, 03:15 PM

Lucas

06-19-2017, 03:17 PM

Lek

06-19-2017, 03:18 PM

i saw that email myself it says 2000 years back indeed.

Im not denying that it says so.

And to me they said 1000-1300 years before the update when all balkanites got mena and east euro. And now suddenly 2000 years but those east euro and mena for me is gone. Lol.

I think i was one of the first here to ask them actually

Peterski

06-19-2017, 03:19 PM

BaltoSlavic is what RISE here?

RISE568 and RISE598. But RISE568 is too young (Early Medieval Slavic).

Kelmendasi

06-19-2017, 03:20 PM

Im not denying that it says so.

And to me they said 1000-1300 years before the update when all balkanites got mena and east euro. And now suddenly 2000 years but those east euro and mena for me is gone. Lol.

I think i was one of the first here to ask them actually
Thats because they lacked a Balkan/SE Euro cluster

Lek

06-19-2017, 03:22 PM

Thats because they lacked a Balkan/SE Euro cluster

They could of just included it into south europe. That doesnt make any sense.

Ylla

06-19-2017, 03:25 PM

Did you forget mine? Its been two days......I suspect my megalithic is high and steppe low

Peterski

06-19-2017, 03:33 PM

Did you forget mine? Its been two days......I suspect my megalithic is high and steppe low

You will be next (because you requested first out of people who still didn't get it).

Peterski

06-19-2017, 04:35 PM

I suspect my megalithic is high and steppe low

You were right, you got lower Steppe and higher Megalithic than most of other Albanians:

http://i.imgur.com/yRQdohd.png

Any ideas why? Are you from some part of Albania which is more southern genetically?

Kelmendasi

06-19-2017, 04:38 PM

You were right, you got lower Steppe and higher Megalithic than most of other Albanians:

http://i.imgur.com/yRQdohd.png

Any ideas why? Are you from some part of Albania which is more southern genetically?
Damn thats a lot of Megalithic. Shes a Kosovar

de Burgh II

06-19-2017, 05:06 PM

deBurgh:

http://i.imgur.com/ydou8lq.png

Dang.... I didn't expect that much Steppe admixture. :p

It would be interesting if you created a k36 ancient model based on bronze age Europe. :p

Ylla

06-19-2017, 05:14 PM

Lek

06-19-2017, 05:25 PM

Era

06-19-2017, 05:25 PM

deBurgh:

http://i.imgur.com/ydou8lq.png

So what is your explanation for this, why does a western euro get more steppe?

Lek

06-19-2017, 05:29 PM

So what is your explanation for this, why does a western euro get more steppe?

Steppe migrants, probably killed off shitloads of the natives and raped their women

firemonkey

06-20-2017, 03:52 PM

Any sign of us getting results?

Grace O'Malley

06-21-2017, 11:22 AM

Grace O'Malley (Irish):

http://i.imgur.com/ng8Gw2C.png

Thank you for doing this Litvin. You and Mlukas are doing phenomenal work. So I'm basically just Steppe and some megalithic.

Grace O'Malley

06-21-2017, 11:26 AM

So what is your explanation for this, why does a western euro get more steppe?

Britain and Ireland basically had a population replacement in the Bronze Age with Central European Bell Beakers.

Era

06-21-2017, 02:08 PM

Britain and Ireland basically had a population replacement in the Bronze Age with Central European Bell Beakers.

From the map it's far east rather than Central Euro though.

Lek

06-21-2017, 02:17 PM

From the map it's far east rather than Central Euro though.

I guess you never heard of the Indo European steppe invaders.

Grace O'Malley

06-21-2017, 02:19 PM

From the map it's far east rather than Central Euro though.

Yes but they had a high Steppe component in the autosomal dna. Bell Beaker are an off-shoot of Yamnaya and are R1b. They basically went from Central Europe to Britain and Ireland in a few generations. The Bell Beaker that went to Britain and Ireland are the same as Dutch Bell Beaker.

The black in this diagram is Steppe.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_eMgwRXoAEycTp.jpg

Erronkari

06-21-2017, 02:20 PM

Incredible... I have one of the biggest megalithic contribution (62% more or less)... "Basque factor"??? :o

Era

06-21-2017, 02:21 PM

I guess you never heard of the Indo European steppe invaders.

That's an anthro myth

Peterski

06-21-2017, 02:23 PM

So what is your explanation for this, why does a western euro get more steppe?

Because their ancestors came from Eastern Europe around 4500 years ago.

Have you seen what happened in Britain? Neolithic Britain was all I2a:

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135962

Y-DNA haplogroups in Neolithic and Bronze Age Britain (page 17):

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/09/135962.full.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/7lQakIa.png

This is a good summary by prof. David Reich (especially since 28:58):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjbp_LepPM#t=28m58s

https://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/05/29/open-thread-5292017/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjbp_LepPM

Not only Neolithic Y-DNA, but also Neolithic autosomal DNA was mostly replaced:

Blue = proportion of indigenous British Neolithic ancestry in Bronze Age Britain
Red = proportion of new immigrant (Continental) ancestry in Bronze Age Britain

https://i.img.ie/0AA.jpg

Grace O'Malley

06-21-2017, 02:26 PM

That's an anthro myth

Definitely not and genetics backs it up. That's why northwestern Europeans have a high Steppe component. You might want to have a quick squizzy of this.

The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/09/135962.full.pdf

Grace O'Malley

06-21-2017, 02:29 PM

Because their ancestors came from Eastern Europe around 4500 years ago.

Have you seen what happened in Britain? Neolithic Britain was all I2a:

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/09/135962

Y-DNA haplogroups in Neolithic and Bronze Age Britain (page 17):

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/05/09/135962.full.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/7lQakIa.png

This is a good summary by prof. David Reich (especially since 28:58):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjbp_LepPM#t=28m58s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZjbp_LepPM

We posted the same thing at the same time. A really interesting paper for anyone who wants to understand what happened in the Bronze Age.

What I found interesting in the youtube video was that Wales is more closely related to England and not really very similar to Scotland. Scotland is most closely related to Ireland which I've already known. The Celtic populations are not as close as people surmise. The English are between Wales on one side and Scotland/Ireland on the other.

Peterski

06-21-2017, 02:42 PM

There is about as much of Neolithic British ancestry in modern Britain, as there is of Native American (Amerindian) ancestry in modern Argentina. Or maybe even less than that.

Neolithic Poland (Globular Amphora Culture, GAC) was also I2a.

GAC samples from Kierzkowo are I2a2a1b, I2a2, I2a2 and I2.

GAC samples from Ukraine are also I2a2a1b and I2a2a1b2.

So no R1a or R1b in Poland during the Later Neolithic period.

Lek

06-21-2017, 02:44 PM

That's an anthro myth

Proof?

Lek

06-21-2017, 02:45 PM

We posted the same thing at the same time. A really interesting paper for anyone who wants to understand what happened in the Bronze Age.

What I found interesting in the youtube video was that Wales is more closely related to England and not really very similar to Scotland. Scotland is most closely related to Ireland which I've already known. The Celtic populations are not as close as people surmise. The English are between Wales on one side and Scotland/Ireland on the other.

Yeah ive seen some of david reich's work.

The Illyrian Warrior

06-21-2017, 06:26 PM

Thank youu :)
I'm not sure why, but there's a lot of E-V13 in my region, maybe it's pre-Steppe farmer

Almost 30 Iranic wow

Now I wonder where have your great grandparents hid from sexually active Steppe people....Sardinia? :D

The Illyrian Warrior

06-21-2017, 06:30 PM

Steppe migrants, probably killed off shitloads of the natives and raped their women

Our great...great grandparents resisted very well in this regard I suppose. :D

Lek

06-21-2017, 07:11 PM

Our great...great grandparents resisted very well in this regard I suppose. :D

Proto Albanians or proto-ilyrians/thracians were indo european steppe migrants though and Albanian is a indo european language although it shows non-IE influence from the indigenous people they came over. Seems like these people got conquered by proto-Albanians who were less numerous.

I know my paternal lineage were steppe invaders :D

The Illyrian Warrior

06-21-2017, 09:00 PM

Proto Albanians or proto-ilyrians/thracians were indo european steppe migrants though and Albanian is a indo european language although it shows non-IE influence from the indigenous people they came over. Seems like these people got conquered by proto-Albanians who were less numerous.

I know my paternal lineage were steppe invaders :D

I knew you would say something alike however there's still 50/50 or maybe more chance coming from Neolithic farmers. (that bronze age sample from Dalmatia could easily been paleo-Balkanite paternally)

Rethel

06-21-2017, 10:34 PM

5000 years ago?
Idk, becasue whole world was destroyed around 700 years later... :pout:

Surely, our ancestors lived in some nice place, together Jared,
Henoch and Mathushelah, when Henoch was just translated :)

frankhammer

06-22-2017, 01:10 AM

Seems this toy is all yours to play with, could you please run mine through it too? :p

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.96
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.09
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 3.04
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.76
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 4.83
Fennoscandian 9.54
French 6.65
Iberian 16.38
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 13.76
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 12.33
North_Caucasian 0.36
North_Sea 16.65
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 0.64

firemonkey

06-22-2017, 01:59 AM

I guess I've been blacklisted and shouldn't expect any results.

Lek

06-22-2017, 01:38 PM

I knew you would say something alike however there's still 50/50 or maybe more chance coming from Neolithic farmers. (that bronze age sample from Dalmatia could easily been paleo-Balkanite paternally)

Considering proto Thracians and Ilyrians were indo european steppe people and Albanian a indo european language there surely must be some ydna's in us linked to the steppes. Although steppe admixture seems less in the south overall.

Ylla

06-22-2017, 07:27 PM

firemonkey

06-23-2017, 07:58 PM

Any sign of results for those who have asked but haven't got yet, or has there been a glitch with the test? Perhaps Litvin could give us an update.

Karol Klačansky

06-23-2017, 08:01 PM

Is there not a way we can run ourselves? I'm curious as well how high my step is because I'm quite northern euro :).

Longbowman

06-24-2017, 06:17 PM

EastMENA = ancient Iran before Indo-European migrations.

I'm surprised that Jews get more EastMENA than WestMENA.

Longbowman (Ashkenazi+Sephardic):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?74245-Post-your-results-for-Eurogenes-K36&p=3691460&viewfull=1#post3691460

http://i.imgur.com/dTWWUGX.png

Not at all. Our forefathers came from Ur of the Chaldees and, moving west, settled in the land of Canaan; only a few, such as Judah, my forefather, took Canaanite wives; eventually the practise became forbidden.

;)

Rethel

06-24-2017, 06:20 PM

Judah, my forefather,

Nope. Judah was J1, or at least not E. Stop dreming.

Longbowman

06-24-2017, 06:28 PM

Nope. Judah was J1, or at least not E. Stop dreming.

Imagine your entire worldview being based on this poor an understanding of theology and population genetics. Get a job.

Peterski

06-24-2017, 06:33 PM

Litvin, why is steppe so high in north euros? It doesnt correlate with the Haak et al findings at all. No population gets over half there. They get more farmer too. It doesnt make sense. Reply thnx :)

Because I also included Post-Yamnaya Bronze Age Steppe samples, which had some EEF admixture. So this includes also Eastern European Farmers and Hunters who mixed into Steppe groups.

Edit:

Firemonkey:

http://i.imgur.com/bv6sUm9.png

Rethel

06-24-2017, 07:03 PM

Imagine your entire worldview being based on this poor an understanding of theology and

:rofl_002:

population genetics.

When you write something like that, I think, you
either don't understand, or you try twisted it, as
any other thing you do, when it does not support
your nihilistic dreams. Vide above.

Get a job.

I don;t need a second.

firemonkey

06-24-2017, 09:14 PM

No results. Must have been too difficult to work out.

Longbowman

06-25-2017, 11:24 AM

I don;t need a second.

I struggle to believe that. What job allows you to produce this quantity of shitposting? Or perhaps you need a family.

Rethel

06-25-2017, 11:37 AM

shitposting

If I would have more time, there
would be no shitposting, cause I
would be able to write longer texts.
So actually you answered yourself.

I have the goal to write a million words, so
obviously I have to write to do that, no matter
what. So I do my best to achive it.

But btw, you did much more shitposting here?
Are you learing english too, or you totaly has no
life exept computer? 26,000 posts plus this what
was lost in the famous forum-crash. Plus being an
administrator here and active on couple of other
forums. You must be really busy... at the screen :laugh:

Longbowman

06-25-2017, 01:17 PM

If I would have more time, there
would be no shitposting, cause I
would be able to write longer texts.

the horror

I have the goal to write a million words, so
obviously I have to write to do that, no matter
what. So I do my best to achive it.

But btw, you did much more shitposting here?
Are you learing english too, or you totaly has no
life exept computer? 26,000 posts plus this what
was lost in the famous forum-crash. Plus being an
administrator here and active on couple of other
forums. You must be really busy... at the screen :laugh:

99.5% of my posts were made when I was a student and really did have all the time in the world. Now I am active on zero forums.

Rethel

06-25-2017, 02:06 PM

99.5% of my posts were made when I was a student and really did have all the time in the world.

Uuu... some people study in the time of being student and do not have
all the time in the world to waiste it on the forumic world and they even
work simultenously... so following your logic, you neither studied, neither
worked... So if you did not study, I now understand, why you sometimes
are showing total lack of understanding of culture and history in the field
which supposedly had to be a subject of your study programme... :pout:

the horror

But I would be sooner gone :)

Longbowman

06-25-2017, 02:13 PM

Uuu... some people study in the time of being student and do not have
all the time in the world to waiste it on the forumic world and they even
work simultenously... so following your logic, you neither studied, neither
worked... So if you did not study, I now understand, why you sometimes
are showing total lack of understanding of culture and history in the field
which supposedly had to be a subject of your study programme... :pout:

Clearly you have never undertaken a degree.

Rethel

06-25-2017, 02:25 PM

Clearly you have never undertaken a degree.

:)

You even that you know better :)
I wonder, do you have a crystal sphere? :lightbul:

kingjohn

06-25-2017, 02:33 PM

it doesn't metter longbowman
our father m123 is derived from e-z830 { natufians}
we were in the levant for a long long time ........
regards
adam

Rethel

06-25-2017, 02:39 PM

it doesn't metter longbowman
our father m123 is derived from e-z830 { natufians}
we were in the levant for a long long time ........
regards
adam

A one sane E here :)

Longbowman

06-25-2017, 06:19 PM

it doesn't metter longbowman
our father m123 is derived from e-z830 { natufians}
we were in the levant for a long long time ........
regards
adam

Of course Judah wasn't a real person, Rethel is just biting because he likes biting.

I even included ;) afterwards

please stop humouring this imbecile.

Rethel

06-25-2017, 07:38 PM

Of course Judah wasn't a real person,

Even if Judah would be fictional, he couldn't be E, becasue his description excludes it.
The same as legendary polish Lech is R1 or fictional kings of England from Blackadder
series are R1b. If I would create a fictional character of some genius scientists called
Alexander Einstein who would be a descendantd of Albert Einstein or some Otto Hitler,
the Füherer of fictional IV Reich who would be a relative of Adolf, then obviously they
would be E1, because description of them and necessary conditions which made these
characters would imply it, regardless their fictionality. So high IQ, but fail to get simple
things, which can understand a kindergartner. Dont be so butthurt, that you are not a
Judahite becasue according to true judaists you are neither a Jewish anyway.

Longbowman

06-25-2017, 10:33 PM

Even if Judah would be fictional, he couldn't be E, becasue his description excludes it.
The same as legendary polish Lech is R1 or fictional kings of England from Blackadder
series are R1b. If I would create a fictional character of some genius scientists called
Alexander Einstein who would be a descendantd of Albert Einstein or some Otto Hitler,
the Füherer of fictional IV Reich who would be a relative of Adolf, then obviously they
would be E1, because description of them and necessary conditions which made these
characters would imply it, regardless their fictionality. So high IQ, but fail to get simple
things, which can understand a kindergartner. Dont be so butthurt, that you are not a
Judahite becasue according to true judaists you are neither a Jewish anyway.

True Judaists = just you, apparently. I am sorry that as a European you have no concept of tribal identity, but keep your coping mechanisms to yourself. Further OT will be deleted, can't be bothered with your nonsense for the millionth time. Learn English some other way.

Rethel

06-25-2017, 10:42 PM

True Judaists = just you, apparently.

Oh, come on, every orthodox rabbi will tell you, that
true Jew is that one who practices judaism. You don't.

can't be bothered with your nonsense for the millionth time. Learn English some other way.

So you are so weak, that you can be bothered by someones writing about empirical stuff?

Btw, deleting somone's posts only witness, that you can't
deal with reality and have no argument. It is very pathetic.

Longbowman

06-25-2017, 10:43 PM

Oh, come on, every orthodox rabbi will tell you, that
true Jew is that one who practices judaism

wrong

every single orthodox rabbi will tell you this: a Jew is someone born to a Jewish mother, or someone who formally converts to Judaism. This is basic Talmudic tribal law.

practising Judaism is a related but separate issue.

Basic reading for you: http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

You don't

wrong

don't talk shit about stuff you are completely ignorant about. I understand this will leave you with zero things to talk about but that is not my fault.

Era

06-26-2017, 08:39 PM

http://i68.tinypic.com/15z00eh.png

Dibran

06-27-2017, 03:45 PM

http://i68.tinypic.com/15z00eh.png

Could you do this for me and my father? I never could get it to work.

Me:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.41
Basque 2.74
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.97
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.48
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.10
East_Med 10.53
Eastern_Euro 4.01
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 10.91
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 30.69
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 3.12
North_African -
North_Atlantic 3.38
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 5.47
West_Med 8.16

Father:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.61
Basque 1.18
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.85
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 8.08
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.96
East_Med 11.54
Eastern_Euro 3.49
Fennoscandian -
French 1.36
Iberian 8.35
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 34.59
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 6.13
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.20
North_Caucasian 2.76
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.27
West_Med 6.60

Era

06-27-2017, 03:47 PM

Could you do this for me and my father? I never could get it to work.

This is Litvin's toy :D The OP only can do this, it's his calculation.

Dibran

06-27-2017, 03:49 PM

This is a test version, I think that there are still few issues.

Could you please do this for me and my father? I would greatly appreciate it.

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.41
Basque 2.74
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.97
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.48
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.10
East_Med 10.53
Eastern_Euro 4.01
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 10.91
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 30.69
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 3.12
North_African -
North_Atlantic 3.38
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 5.47
West_Med 8.16

Father:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.61
Basque 1.18
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.85
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 8.08
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 6.96
East_Med 11.54
Eastern_Euro 3.49
Fennoscandian -
French 1.36
Iberian 8.35
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 34.59
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 6.13
North_African -
North_Atlantic 2.20
North_Caucasian 2.76
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.27
West_Med 6.60