Croatian YDNA

[Jana]

Samples are from Croatian Family Tree DNA project and from Croats from Serbian DNA project :)

Sample size : 149

I2a = 36%
I2 dinaric-south - 45
I2 dinaric-north - 6
I2 western - 1
I2 M223 - 1

R1a = 26%
R1a Z280 - 24
R1a M458 - 4
R1a M198 - 4
R1a M420 - 4
R1a Z283 - 2

E1b = 11%
E-V13 -17

J2 = 10%
J2a - 7
J2b2 M421 - 4
J2b1 M205 - 4

R1b = 9%
R1b L23 - 4
R1b L51 - 3
R1b - 4
R1b L21 - 2
R1b U106 - 2

I1 = 4%
I1 M253 - 5
I1 - 1

Q1 = 2%
Q1b - 2
Q1a - 1

G1 = 1%
G2 = 1%

[Voskos]

G is low and no J1. Anatolian admixture is almost absent.

[Jana]

G is low and no J1. Anatolian admixture is almost absent.
Aren't Anatolian farmers also J2a ? I am not sure that's why I ask.
I will post more about specific subclades too.

[Voskos]

Aren't Anatlolian farmers also J2a ? I am not sure that's why I ask.
I will post more about specific subclades too.

yeah too. i think J1/J2a is caucasus admix and G is neolithic anatolian.

[Tschaikisten]

Croatian national reference Y-STR haplotype database
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221889294_Croatian_national_reference_Y-STR_haplotype_database)
Human Y-specific STR haplotypes in the Western Croatian population sample
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7985581_Human_Y-specific_STR_haplotypes_in_the_Western_Croatian_po pulation_sample)
Croatian national reference Y-STR haplotype database. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22391654)
Y short tandem repeat haplotypes in southern Croatian population*
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2359891/table/T2/)
Genetic heritage of Croatians in the Southeastern European gene pool—Y chromosome analysis of the Croatian continental and Island population
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.22876/abstract;jsessionid=C2E1355B60166BD4FEAE46F11479B0 92.f03t04)
Y chromosome STRs in Croatians
(http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Barac2003b.pdf)
Y chromosomal heritage of Croatian population and its island isolates
(http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v11/n7/fig_tab/5200992t1.html#figure-title)

[Jana]

Croatian national reference Y-STR haplotype database
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221889294_Croatian_national_reference_Y-STR_haplotype_database)
Human Y-specific STR haplotypes in the Western Croatian population sample
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7985581_Human_Y-specific_STR_haplotypes_in_the_Western_Croatian_po pulation_sample)
Croatian national reference Y-STR haplotype database. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22391654)
Y short tandem repeat haplotypes in southern Croatian population*
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2359891/table/T2/)
Genetic heritage of Croatians in the Southeastern European gene pool—Y chromosome analysis of the Croatian continental and Island population
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.22876/abstract;jsessionid=C2E1355B60166BD4FEAE46F11479B0 92.f03t04)
Y chromosome STRs in Croatians
(http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Barac2003b.pdf)
Y chromosomal heritage of Croatian population and its island isolates
(http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v11/n7/fig_tab/5200992t1.html#figure-title)

Thanks for this :thumb001:

[Jana]

Subclade distribution

I2 dinaric south subclade is defined with SNP PH908, which can be predicted in 44 out of 45 samples.
PH908 has two major branches which were detected in Croatian samples:
- A13912
- Z16983

R1a Z280 is divided into many subclades, and by far the most common among Croats is Y2613 (''Carpatho-Dalmatian'') with 14 samples.
Second most common is YP343 (''western Carpathian''). Other common Z280 subclades are Z92 (''Baltic'') and Y2902 (''Volga-Carpathian'')

R1a M458 was divided to L260 and L1029 lineages.

E-V13 haplogroup most common branch was Z16988 with 5 samples. Other V13 subclades found among Croats are Z17017 and S2972.

Among R1b samples, those belonging to ''eastern'' L23 branch fall into Z2103/BY611 cluster.

I1 samples were mainly assigned to M253 lineage.

[Grishnack]

Not exceptionally different from the Romanian ones. Although, as I said in another thread, I calculated some frequencies based on some 23andme results and the results were quite unexpected. 35% R1a and 20% I2. (the sample size was small but still) Anyway, interesting post!

[Jana]

Not exceptionally different from the Romanian ones. Although, as I said in another thread, I calculated some frequencies based on some 23andme results and the results were quite unexpected. 35% R1a and 20% I2. (the sample size was small but still) Anyway, interesting post!

Well yes, the percentages can change depend on how many regions are tested. I think this is more or lesss accurate. We still have some regions that are under-sampled in commmercial tests, but Croatia has been well-covered by professional genetic researches (in Europa Nazione post). I was more interested in specific subclades by doing this, especially R1a. One research pointed that Croatian type of R1a was mainly M458 which was proved erraneous by later studies and amateur statistics like this one.

[Rethel]

Samples are from Croatian Family Tree DNA project and from Croats from Serbian DNA project :)
R1a = 26%
R1b = 9%

Quite decent results...


G1 = 1%
G2 = 1%

And that is interesting!
Not only "high" amount of G1 but it's equal level to G2... two x 1.5 persons :laugh:


I1 samples were mainly assigned to M253 lineage.

But it is main lineage... I1 itself.

[Jana]

Quite decent results...
Do you know where is highest level of R1 in Croatia ? On island of Krk, north Adriatic, in my region (western Croatia). Biggest and most populous Croatian island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krk

R1a = 37% R1b= 12%

Interestingly Dalmatian islands (southern Croatia) are strongly I2-dinaric dominant. I have a best friend with paternal ancestry from Cres (island close to Krk) which should have similar high proportions of R1 (R1a) and I'd try to get him tested.

[Rethel]

R1a = 37% R1b= 12%

The highest amount is only 49%?

Eee... maybe it is better, considering the
confessions of Robocop, that he, as many
others, never consider himself even a Slav... :pout:

Krk (like Kraków :laugh:) - the capital bastion of IEs in Croatia! :)

[Jana]

The highest amount is only 49%?

Eee... maybe it is better, considering the
confessions of Robocop, that he, as many
others, never consider himself even a Slav... :pout:

Krk (like Kraków :laugh:) - the capital bastion of IEs in Croatia! :)

What ? Both some clades R1a and I2 are Slavic haplos, but proportions in Croatia are different. R1a is also dominant in north Croatia, but for example in Slavonia (eastern Croatia) I2-dinaric has high value because of migrations from the south (dinaric areas) in the past, since fertile Panonnian Croatia was always attractive for people searching for better life.

Krk island has more closer proportions to Slovenian average than Croatian (and it's close to Slovenia) but people are undoubtely ethnic Croats since it has been one of most important sights in our old history :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%C5%A1ka_tablet

''Baška tablet (Croatian: Bašćanska ploča, pronounced [bâʃt͡ɕanskaː plɔ̂t͡ʃa]) is one of the first monuments containing an inscription in the Croatian recension of the Church Slavonic language, dating from c. 1100.
The inscribed stone slab records King Zvonimir's donation of a piece of land to a Benedictine abbey in the time of abbot Držiha. The second half of the inscription tells how Abbot Dobrovit built the church along with nine monks.[1] The inscription is written in the Glagolitic script, exhibiting features of Church Slavonic of Croatian recension, such as writing (j)u for (j)ǫ, e for ę, i for y, and using one jer only (ъ). It provides the only example of transition from Glagolitic of the rounded Bulgarian type to the angular Croatian alphabet.''

PS Robocop (I miss him :() never said Croats aren't Slavs, but he was partly Italian and madly in love with mediterranean (including Dalmatian) culture so it's natural he felt closer to Italy than to any other country surrounding Croatia.

[Rethel]

What ? Both some clades R1a and I2 are Slavic haplos,

:)

Slavs => IE.
I2 is not IE.


[I]''Baška tablet (Croatian: Bašćanska ploča, pronounced [bâʃt͡ɕanskaː plɔ̂t͡ʃa]) is one of the first monuments containing an inscription in the Croatian recension of the Church Slavonic language, dating from c. 1100.

Fine, but what it has to do with the stuff? :)


PS Robocop (I miss him :()

When he is going to return?

[Jana]

:)

Slavs => IE.
I2 is not IE.

I2-CTS10228 is not PIE but most likely proto-Slavic. Just like I1 is proto-Germanic. Thousands years have passed since PIE split to more refined branches, and you have considerable non-IE input in these languages to witness that :P We also have likely proto-Illyrian J2b2 sample from bronze age Dalmatia, and J2 isn't original PIE haplogroup.


Fine, but what it has to do with the stuff? :)
Some Serbian nationalist claim Croats are mix of Serbs (I2-dinaric) and Slovenes (R1a) which is obviously false since that tablet witness it was realm of Croatian King and our group was recorded in all Byzantine cronicles when we moved from southern Poland/western Ukraine area to east Adriatic.


When he is going to return?
I'm afraid he never will. Loki demoded him because he banned Al-Bosni for pedophilia thread, which he felt injustice and left in protest.

[Bobby Martnen]

I1 samples were mainly assigned to M253 lineage.

This is the best LI1NEAGE to belong to

[Jana]

From Croatian national database! With lot of samples :)

https://i.imgur.com/Ejhb1pZ.gif
https://i.imgur.com/vVwZ1No.gif
https://i.imgur.com/NyQuqyL.gif
https://i.imgur.com/qPuMzWY.gif
https://i.imgur.com/GZOmjrP.gif

[Dick]

Highest % of I1 in western Croatia is no surprise

[Jana]

Highest % of I1 in western Croatia is no surprise

and 5% H in north Croatia is not suprise either :D

[Dick]

and 5% H in north Croatia is not suprise either :D

Zagreb?

[Jana]

Zagreb?

No (Zagreb in central Croatia). Međimurje, Zagorje and western part of Podravina. Large concentration of Roma there.

[Leto]

No (Zagreb in central Croatia). Međimurje, Zagorje and western part of Podravina. Large concentration of Roma there.
Are there many Romanis in Croatia?

[Jana]

Are there many Romanis in Croatia?

Actually very little. But in northernmost Croatia it's different, they are quite numerous in there. Mostly concentrated along Hungarian border.

[Leto]

No (Zagreb in central Croatia). Međimurje, Zagorje and western part of Podravina. Large concentration of Roma there.
What was the highest Baltic score of a Croat you've seen?

[Jana]

What was the highest Baltic score of a Croat you've seen?

This one has pretty high (but not highest probably because he scores high western admix as well)

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 34.98
2 North_Atlantic 33.1
3 West_Med 12.26
4 West_Asian 7.75
5 East_Med 6.51
6 Red_Sea 2.23
7 Amerindian 1.33
8 South_Asian 1.09
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

1 Hungarian 4.62
2 East_German 5.38
3 Croatian 6.23
4 Austrian 6.52
5 South_Polish 7.18
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.07
7 Moldavian 8.99
8 Ukrainian 9.37
9 Polish 10.29
10 Serbian 12.22
11 North_Swedish 12.89
12 Southwest_Finnish 13.08
13 Southwest_Russian 13.27
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.44
15 Russian_Smolensk 13.45
16 Estonian_Polish 14.23
17 North_German 14.29
18 Belorussian 14.4
19 West_German 14.52
20 Swedish 15.05

Btw, this person is genetic outlier and fully western Slavic genetically. He clusters with Czechs and Slovaks, more northern than average Slovene or Hungarian. He is from northwestern Croatia.

[Leto]

This one has pretty high (but not highest probably because he scores high western admix as well)

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 34.98
2 North_Atlantic 33.1
3 West_Med 12.26
4 West_Asian 7.75
5 East_Med 6.51
6 Red_Sea 2.23
7 Amerindian 1.33
8 South_Asian 1.09
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

1 Hungarian 4.62
2 East_German 5.38
3 Croatian 6.23
4 Austrian 6.52
5 South_Polish 7.18
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.07
7 Moldavian 8.99
8 Ukrainian 9.37
9 Polish 10.29
10 Serbian 12.22
11 North_Swedish 12.89
12 Southwest_Finnish 13.08
13 Southwest_Russian 13.27
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.44
15 Russian_Smolensk 13.45
16 Estonian_Polish 14.23
17 North_German 14.29
18 Belorussian 14.4
19 West_German 14.52
20 Swedish 15.05

Btw, this person is genetic outlier and fully western Slavic genetically. He clusters with Czechs and Slovaks, more northern than average Slovene or Hungarian. He is from northwestern Croatia.
The speadsheet says the average is 36% which higher than this.

[Jana]

The speadsheet says the average is 36% which higher than this.

Maybe but he way more northern shifted than any other Croat because both his baltic and north atlantic are massive.
PS he gets 99% East European on FTDNA ;)

[Peterski]

So around 60% Slavic Y-DNA! That's even more than in Poland:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?240328-Slavic-identity-in-Slavic-speaking-countries&p=5062865&viewfull=1#post5062865

Or maybe I should count part of R1a and I2a-Din as Non-Slavic?

In Poland, some part of R1a are subclades associated with Balts.

[Leto]

Maybe but he way more northern shifted than any other Croat because both his baltic and north atlantic are massive.
PS he gets 99% East European on FTDNA ;)
To me Croats don't really look like us (Russians/East Slavs), you guys are more 'Western' so to speak. But also more Southern European.

[Jana]

So around 60% Slavic Y-DNA! That's even more than in Poland:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?240328-Slavic-identity-in-Slavic-speaking-countries&p=5062865&viewfull=1#post5062865

Or maybe I should count part of R1a and I2a-Din as Non-Slavic?

In Poland, some part of R1a are subclades associated with Balts.

Isn't all I2-dinaric slavic ?

We have bit of baltic type R1a too :) Yes, Croatia is very slavic in terms of ydna. More so than Slovenia for example (they have lot of R1b), and native balkan lineages are somewhat low compared to Serbia or Bulgaria.

But Bosnia and Herzegovina is even more Slavic in terms of YDNA.

[Jana]

To me Croats don't really look like us (Russians/East Slavs), you guys are more 'Western' so to speak. But also more Southern European.

I agree. From eastern Slavs only western Ukrainians are quite smilar to northern Croats. Western Slavs are closer, Slovaks especially.

[Peterski]

We have bit of baltic type R1a too

How could it get there? Maybe assimilated by Early Slavs and expanded with them?

Or did it get there with someone else? Balts assimilated by East Germanic tribes?

[Jana]

How could it get there? Maybe assimilated by Early Slavs and expanded with them?

Or did it get there with someone else? Balts assimilated by East Germanic tribes?

Yes, I think early balto-slavic heritage probably (R1a Z92). it isn't uncommon among south slavs, Serbs have it too.
maybe Goths too, who knows :)

But most of our slavic lineages pinpoint to Carpathian mountain area (I2 dinaric and R1a Carpatho-Dalmatian) which really speak in favor of White Croat migration from southeastern Poland/Western Ukraine.