Sikeliot's guide to Sicilian phenotypes UPDATED. [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

View Full Version : Sikeliot's guide to Sicilian phenotypes UPDATED.

Sikeliot

07-01-2017, 03:28 PM

This is an update of my thread from 4 years ago given that I have gained more nuanced knowledge now, more information, and felt it was necessary to do this over for accuracy's sake. Obviously, most of the island shares common phenotypes, but there are some distinct differences, so I am going to go through those here.

Here is a map of the island. Phenotypically and genetically, you can roughly divide the island into four pieces, and this is the order I will cover them in.

1) Northeast Sicily (Messina, Catania)
2) Southeast Sicily (Enna Ragusa, Syracuse)
3) West-Central Sicily (Caltanissetta, Agrigento, and Palermo)
4) Trapani

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Map_of_region_of_Sicily%2C_Italy%2C_with_provinces-en.svg/2000px-Map_of_region_of_Sicily%2C_Italy%2C_with_provinces-en.svg.png

1) Northeast Sicily: Messina, Catania

Key phenotypes: Alpine, Gracile Med, East Med, Dinarid, Atlantid, Pontid, Nordid, Armenoid, and their derivatives and any combination thereof.
Closest genetic populations: Calabria/Campania, Crete, Aegean Islands, Cypriots, Southern Greeks, Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews, Central Italians, Turks, Syrians/Lebanese.
Genetic distinctiveness: High affinity to the Caucasus, low North European input.
Phenotypical trend: Strongly gracile features, gravitating toward Cyprus.

Messina and Catania are typically gracile and of darker features, and resemble Dodecanese and Cretan Greeks and are nearly identical to the people of Calabria on the neighboring mainland, and all of these shift toward Cyprus. Migrations from the Byzantine Empire's holdings in West Asia during Byzantine rule may have augmented the affinity to the Caucasus and West Asia overall, even though the region does have a strong Greek influence right from the mainland as well as some Italic influence from the Siculi.

MESSINA photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11087386_937160612985397_4377563497463158445_o.jpg ?oh=5b2cbca5124df1ea0dbe7447d341626b&oe=59D64609
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11134033_937157792985679_1399903212374206295_o.jpg ?oh=67d6ba0f736fadaa07bf5ac8492628b5&oe=59C4B32D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11103227_937159699652155_1920364481843265497_o.jpg ?oh=92f25bde12831bcbb020718dd72118dc&oe=59DBCC9D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11134028_937159982985460_5733770342369394338_o.jpg ?oh=30fbcf3104730742109a7883e1fcf771&oe=5A0F0CCD
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11146372_937159389652186_6635483458319691214_o.jpg ?oh=5fcb9f4ff9c8dd147e6efb80e179b8d0&oe=59D33721
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11134085_937158592985599_3882227612609444347_o.jpg ?oh=20244972d27088307b77fb941bdc972f&oe=59D35DAE
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10917140_927705320597593_8600234857989745713_o.jpg ?oh=62a5c08954e5b98b9dce23f2002a1353&oe=59D53921
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/1097177_937158126318979_4222735508841610326_o.jpg? oh=42089a525fbbd1cb339227ed0ddb9739&oe=59CC0456
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11083978_937158222985636_3781814541585710050_o.jpg ?oh=08bcd6cdad399dc36312e1a6ffb89edb&oe=59D2C2E0
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11073068_937158712985587_3743848732027168016_o.jpg ?oh=b72b812e35f97ffe8e19150f56cc6b7f&oe=59DE3710

CATANIA photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13585211_550760008428130_5768980322581633645_o.jpg ?oh=c0cd88b13613ca1e62f56aa16b6cd4c4&oe=59DEC470
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13580419_550759781761486_4397381921229034359_o.jpg ?oh=da0deaaaec9bc9ecd76b79e0226e6adb&oe=59CB290C
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13528628_550755645095233_4639458270885284680_o.jpg ?oh=616e0f192a42b560e43ac8e3ab712378&oe=59DE6AB2
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13603357_550754975095300_6617726479413574582_o.jpg ?oh=64d305f746824eabf518a354436bbb80&oe=59DE597D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13528334_550754575095340_2620016029240898248_o.jpg ?oh=c9a613b44a14af679ece816081e38c96&oe=5A0BAE8F
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13558937_550756428428488_2322378536221641971_o.jpg ?oh=5ed85fac42b2c617f35e91b2747da67e&oe=59D7E1B5
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13528558_550753345095463_8914325787795018474_o.jpg ?oh=2dffa4eb0c76ad69d779e277fa57942a&oe=5A0DBD36
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13558870_550753498428781_6609063094192556362_o.jpg ?oh=761888d959e152e0c9ad331dec91fd31&oe=59C75E2F
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/13558612_550753695095428_7152648037659037397_o.jpg ?oh=9e0ea98b11e7ef09ba9460e60437ea6a&oe=59D3E8E3

Sikeliot

07-01-2017, 03:29 PM

2) Southeast Sicily: Enna, Ragusa, Syracuse

Key phenotypes: Dinarid, Alpine, Gracile Med, East Med, Atlantid, Pontid, Nordid, and their derivatives and any combination thereof.
Closest genetic populations: Southeast Italy (Apulia/Lucania), Greeks overall, Central Italians, Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews, Albanians, Bulgarians, Macedonians.
Genetic distinctiveness: Higher Northeast European ("Balto-Slavic") and lowest North African and SW Asian on the island.
Phenotypical trend: Robust build breaking from the typically gracile orientation of the island, resembling Greeks from both mainland and islands as well as Balkanites overall.

This is the most consistently "European" region of the island both genetically and phenotypically, strongly resembling in both phenotype and genetics Apulia on the mainland south. Of the three regions, Enna is the lightest, most Alpinized, most robust in body frame, and has the lowest MENA input, with the phenotypes strongly resembling Peloponnesian Greeks, because many Greeks living on the east coast fled inland to Enna during the Arab conquest to escape Arabization. Syracuse and Enna look very close, due to high preservation of Greek ancestry. Ragusa is slightly darker and has absorbed slightly more MENA affinity, evident in their higher frequency of haplogroup J1 and their connections to Malta.

ENNA photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15844512_667845823385180_1419478991192711272_o.jpg ?oh=42456070af4853010211e4254378ec33&oe=5A11FA19
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15774834_667846110051818_1681360764985732957_o.jpg ?oh=57ea40394e37737a21f4b983029becd1&oe=5A0C17C3
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15776681_667817493388013_8506248366454469899_o.jpg ?oh=b420838d2c1283520fdda4cb65949867&oe=5A0C18F1
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15800802_667817676721328_4268113565056552081_o.jpg ?oh=1f338a5a0ca199f0a4b1de79bbe3911b&oe=59D3C752
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15776895_667829396720156_5194973463235044958_o.jpg ?oh=00ddcf590a107e317403274bd463e60b&oe=59D117C9
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15800299_667844730051956_7261093697635721140_o.jpg ?oh=fdc071e88122e0d1c3da081a319dd4fa&oe=59CE327D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15844337_667837473386015_8343200406239417950_o.jpg ?oh=0c9f0693fec0867d2c64ca0779fbfd32&oe=59CCAE74

RAGUSA photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17990349_1328620560506426_9066461651235899980_o.jp g?oh=00b809c473515ed11f3d2c9963d1e4d6&oe=5A1043B6
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18056180_1328618393839976_884170547497154340_o.jpg ?oh=42896cebf15ca6645c3fa8f8d2113cd6&oe=59DD1AE2
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17991355_1328618527173296_6075412004358632591_o.jp g?oh=d1b074aaa4eb8116ad535fef5fc0cf77&oe=59CC27B7
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17966090_1328618643839951_204989046426372930_o.jpg ?oh=d4ae1218474c61a4a8e5b06b10684d47&oe=5A0B89CA
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17990230_1328617800506702_4653667628223692940_o.jp g?oh=d312925c02668d636b6e3baff33ecd44&oe=5A0B5AA8
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18076919_1328619330506549_7906391450900699749_o.jp g?oh=7f5ef2f997b3912bd8fde33f630cca92&oe=59C3DE8A
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18077174_1328617533840062_3843595711674245975_o.jp g?oh=b1959037df26a46a36849f5aa4d11449&oe=59D64959
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18056388_1328617043840111_3173263811921896947_o.jp g?oh=ee306268abb9afbfdd88422288640705&oe=59CE640C

SYRACUSE photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18954633_1366487993441210_8098789186223376308_o.jp g?oh=edd4dc44e921461e55e0e8c35d48da0f&oe=5A09D682
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18157585_1325191140904229_2238202309674803946_n.jp g?oh=aabf91f56ed27931ade935326bf865fb&oe=59CF9B98
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18121947_1325094764247200_4494776165368721399_o.jp g?oh=cf80b3360f4b5042273f10c7fb6f3479&oe=59D75827
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18155808_1325096500913693_1022699962081853519_o.jp g?oh=5050b3a614286f473702ba451a36f2d6&oe=59D2421C
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18192998_1325097524246924_3411827138087903874_o.jp g?oh=03372b7b5b4641aa892c2a1d2083b432&oe=59D4CD97

Sikeliot

07-01-2017, 03:29 PM

3) West-Central Sicily: Palermo, Agrigento, Caltanissetta

Key phenotypes: Gracile Med, East Med, Dinarid, Armenoid, Atlantid, Nordid, Berid, South Med, and any combination thereof.
Closest genetic populations: Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews, North African Jews, Cretans, Aegean islands, Central Italians, Southern Greeks, Cypriots, Syrians/Lebanese.
Genetic distinctiveness: Higher North African and Southwest Asian influence, minor Norman input in Palermo, and shift toward Moroccan Jews.
Phenotypical trend: Due to higher Afro-Asiatic input especially in Agrigento, the population phenotypically resembles many Jewish groups and to an extent, Levantines.

Agrigento is, for all intents and purposes, similar to Malta, having been the most thoroughly Arabized region of the island during Arab rule. Palermo and Caltanissetta are similar, only they have slightly higher continental European influence (5% or so) from Normans and the Crusades. Palermitans, in particular, strongly resemble Ashkenazim. There are Greek influences in these provinces, though less predominant than along the east coast and possibly the least proportionally Greek regions of the island.

PALERMO photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19453062_1659948964037727_3946236691296973636_o.jp g?oh=04c9059f034998af2825198823540794&oe=59DF00DA
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19510232_1659947667371190_4008561747092022089_n.jp g?oh=6ba759dad2b80f76552ce69b9e3fe47c&oe=59DE95DB
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19441988_1659946877371269_8120064839344942600_o.jp g?oh=d11ed7415530d197b726196277ce4c94&oe=59CCDFD1
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19417497_1659946114038012_6378203151300764543_o.jp g?oh=46650f675475dc645849fa9f3c83cb2d&oe=59D3D8BE
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19399422_1653645384668085_2257259744741020254_n.jp g?oh=97e78ea7a30824c9528358de1c6ad75c&oe=59CD1803
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19388361_1653645308001426_760814466756763924_o.jpg ?oh=a5bae1e21a7ed9113206c0dadcb8bafb&oe=59D35753
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19400553_1653642434668380_8060943902868344375_o.jp g?oh=f16edc469cc73c071248d44d024269bf&oe=5A08AF8F
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19390948_1653641414668482_2852775948315899810_o.jp g?oh=8a94102f7d28bc6f3216b093a19f0ae2&oe=59D4D06F
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19399941_1653641214668502_434787979164819858_n.jpg ?oh=8f7e747aa39947efa7a2845bbe2336ec&oe=59CDC361
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19402210_1653640804668543_5749265943408998279_o.jp g?oh=f5c36aaca3bd21fc0b3a0e9668e43ce5&oe=5A113D3D

AGRIGENTO photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12027213_400926763449709_817590481991395960_o.jpg? oh=eecdb45aff14558a9dc101ca8f4b899d&oe=59C78297
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11933390_390113294531056_8824967602804224853_n.jpg ?oh=f2ece8dfd5a3eb56acb347bf1aea0189&oe=5A08735A
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11696488_374506446091741_5891190052011157157_o.jpg ?oh=53ae802b82cca4e36f74de466e47e0b8&oe=59CF2D8D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/11872044_390146614527724_8975748736846040997_o.jpg ?oh=68329099fba3ddccfff931f97f12f00f&oe=59D415E9
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10525620_232418120300575_1614911771953951613_n.jpg ?oh=26ad5260dc414609ad18cb00a21f52e5&oe=5A0D37DC

CALTANISSETTA photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/478831_385880764780666_1096995225_o.jpg?oh=74784cf e45073c62570c7d54de92c42d&oe=59C53476
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/538773_385880818113994_1552790940_n.jpg?oh=06f399e d9722ab3f13deaec413348d93&oe=59DEEC43
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/542074_385881051447304_663514211_n.jpg?oh=830db9df c498382e8ab96750ad86a6a1&oe=5A0B61A7
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/578226_385889241446485_292497823_n.jpg?oh=da2d73a0 51a4bab0e8d1c34ffbfd6914&oe=5A0942B2
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/527629_385881244780618_411367373_n.jpg?oh=ad4f1747 c455a31184fb5dbd12950d83&oe=59D54AA0

Sikeliot

07-01-2017, 03:29 PM

4) Trapani

Key phenotypes: Gracile Med, East Med, Berid, Nordid, Dinarid, Atlantid, Armenoid, Subnordid, South Med, and any combination thereof.
Closest genetic populations: Central and southern Italians overall, Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews, North African Jews, Greeks overall, North Italians, Iberians, Syrians/Lebanese.
Genetic distinctiveness: Lower genetic influence from the Caucasus than the rest of the island, higher Southwest Asian and North African, and higher North European than the rest of western Sicily from Normans.
Phenotypical trend: The region lacks the same degree of implicit Caucasian influence than the rest of the island and bears stronger influences from both Western Europe and North Africa than what is typical, with many individuals also resembling Jews and Levantines.

Trapani has been subject to repopulation from the Italian mainland after the Norman conquest and has a strong Greek influence, but the influence of MENA groups is still present genetically: all of these influxes collectively may have decreased the islands' Bronze Age Caucasus affinities, being lower than anywhere else on the island. This region has higher amounts of light hair and eyes than most of the island, and is neither distinctly gracile nor robust in build and facial structure but some combination of the two. Trapani is the most "mixed" region of Sicily in terms of its influences from all over Europe and the Near East.

TRAPANI photos:

https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16700309_426529171017770_8825451349924998284_o.jpg ?oh=95c6a332711e4947bfe79c59768f43e9&oe=59C51D2A
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16665806_426532774350743_6122262930973350698_o.jpg ?oh=1a0cb90efadabc0f9dceb3d1c8c9aa07&oe=59CB76AC
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16665343_426534281017259_2039018235784258239_o.jpg ?oh=2391ff40a4334fae9ddd346b05825c37&oe=5A104D23
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16700518_426525844351436_7659955935447092607_o.jpg ?oh=6ed19c1828d86cc0a38fb87b43917693&oe=5A08BF76
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16700690_426528887684465_1581550007682332399_o.jpg ?oh=83f7c366823aeb3a141dcdfed0877463&oe=59D81AD6
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16602037_426526037684750_3757321810075314041_o.jpg ?oh=2cd019989ad5c64bb4bed33618ffcb3a&oe=59D2452D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16587021_426529057684448_6950125119624542479_o.jpg ?oh=509838d883f3b5c2c4587ecfbf6ab110&oe=59D770CC
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16587078_426526291018058_8165513406423810348_o.jpg ?oh=0042d471a73e83cfed55cbd1b1031545&oe=5A0D00B0
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16664936_426526461018041_5121921718184954076_o.jpg ?oh=ea11408e95de5db2f9bf21d1c6e62cf9&oe=59CFD828
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16601792_426526614351359_2022927098342498094_o.jpg ?oh=030df98b0f9d5c77f12f2971326ed1ac&oe=59CDDB82
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16715889_426532987684055_9212764313228290860_o.jpg ?oh=2d45ddf4d6d4b68629f5be46f2c59a08&oe=5A0C496D
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16716316_426531714350849_4236302304723791467_o.jpg ?oh=c00826807be4bb0d33ef7938517f83b9&oe=5A0D3589
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16665545_426533194350701_6790147263874528874_o.jpg ?oh=9c90e33aef4787cde0c605e8b40bbb19&oe=5A0AC699
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16716346_426531951017492_8563628193631507280_o.jpg ?oh=b8ceac08bc9b481f21988200744958cb&oe=5A0B027E
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16602261_426534054350615_4690131944909899154_o.jpg ?oh=e99953acf787a36bc61db53e44456917&oe=5A0BE407
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16602027_426531734350847_690954529978596611_o.jpg? oh=2f319f17aa7a3cb686cb3c0fcde858dc&oe=59C9E40C
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16707605_426529564351064_896251317797220453_o.jpg? oh=9cc317ce97a31cb33794e5b240471d74&oe=5A0CF876
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16664987_426529707684383_4209513865303971788_o.jpg ?oh=4d6eb5e67df1061345166cb694729bec&oe=59D10BD0
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16601656_426527521017935_3301930470449343081_o.jpg ?oh=014fbaec2a3f097d73af28f0fa48873d&oe=5A0B8A51
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16587206_426529977684356_7160667584851662125_o.jpg ?oh=66563182d5cb080b6014fc2e1672efef&oe=5A11B50A

Voskos

07-02-2017, 03:50 PM

Caltenissetta looks the most familiar for a Cretan.

Demiurge

07-02-2017, 03:55 PM

It must really suck being out with your friends for a drink and then ending up with your photo plastered across anthroboards.

Cristiano viejo

07-02-2017, 03:58 PM

Many differences according you, Sikeliot, in the case of an island...

Demiurge

07-02-2017, 04:00 PM

Many differences according you, Sikeliot, in the case of an island...

If they were a bit darker they might pass in Valladolid.

Cristiano viejo

07-02-2017, 04:04 PM

If they were a bit darker they might pass in Valladolid.
As mongrels like you, only.

Sikeliot

07-02-2017, 06:15 PM

Caltenissetta looks the most familiar for a Cretan.

What do you notice about some of the other regions? Do you see more mainland Greek looks in the southeast?

Voskos

07-02-2017, 06:20 PM

What do you notice about some of the other regions? Do you see more mainland Greek looks in the southeast?

syracuse is peloponnesian-looking but even all the sets look very south Greek.

Sikeliot

07-02-2017, 06:23 PM

syracuse is peloponnesian-looking but even all the sets look very south Greek.

For most of the people in all the sets, where in Greece would they fit best and worst in general? My guess is Dodecanese is a good fit for most, or far southern Peloponnese but the north of the country is a poor fit for everywhere except SE Sicily.

Also, do any sets have excess Middle Eastern or North African to you that make them stand out? If there was going to be it is probably Palermo or Agrigento, but you can decide.

Voskos

07-02-2017, 06:27 PM

For most of the people in all the sets, where in Greece would they fit best and worst in general? My guess is Dodecanese is a good fit for most, or far southern Peloponnese but the north of the country is a poor fit for everywhere except SE Sicily.

Also, do any sets have excess Middle Eastern or North African to you that make them stand out? If there was going to be it is probably Palermo or Agrigento, but you can decide.

palermo seems to have the highest north african and caltanissetta the highest SW Asian.now as a whole the sets pass best in dodecanese , northern crete , aegean, peloponnese. (in that order)

Sikeliot

07-02-2017, 06:40 PM

palermo seems to have the highest north african and caltanissetta the highest SW Asian.now as a whole the sets pass best in dodecanese , northern crete , aegean, peloponnese. (in that order)

That makes sense.
Which region do you think looks least MENA? I would think it'd have to be Syracuse or Enna, the former because it received almost no impact from the Arab conquest and the latter because Greeks from the east coast fled inland whenever the island was conquered by other groups.

Voskos

07-02-2017, 06:45 PM

Sikeliot

07-02-2017, 06:55 PM

syracuse, hands down.

I have not yet seen one of their results on MyHeritage but I expect it would be more like Apulia, where the Greek influence is also very strong.

Ziveth

07-03-2017, 12:24 PM

That makes sense.
Which region do you think looks least MENA? I would think it'd have to be Syracuse or Enna, the former because it received almost no impact from the Arab conquest and the latter because Greeks from the east coast fled inland whenever the island was conquered by other groups.

Very good detailed guide. :)
I think all Sicilians looks MENA influenced, but maybe south east Sicilians look less influenced by MENA. However, most of Sicilians could pass as levantines i think.
Btw, i wanted to ask you, the genetic distance between Sicilians and MENA is bigger or littler than genetic distance between Sicilians and north Italians?
Another thing, i think would be nice a guide like this also about Sardinia (if there isn't one already), because Sardinia genetics are very different than other Italians.

Heather Duval

07-03-2017, 12:33 PM

Very good detailed guide. :)
I think all Sicilians looks MENA influenced, but maybe south east Sicilians look less influenced by MENA. However, most of Sicilians could pass as levantines i think.
Btw, i wanted to ask you, the genetic distance between Sicilians and MENA is bigger or littler than genetic distance between Sicilians and north Italians?
Another thing, i think would be nice a guide like this also about Sardinia (if there isn't one already), because Sardinia genetics are very different than other Italians.
are u really Italian?

wvwvw

07-03-2017, 12:47 PM

Many differences according you, Sikeliot, in the case of an island...

It's no small island though..it has half the population of Greece

wvwvw

07-03-2017, 12:49 PM

are u really Italian?

He meant the lighter Levantines obviously some of who can look pan-med, not the arabid looking

Tauromachos

07-03-2017, 12:57 PM

Examples of Lebanese looking West Sicilians
This
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19399941_1653641214668502_434787979164819858_n.jpg ?oh=8f7e747aa39947efa7a2845bbe2336ec&oe=59CDC361

The two men with the moustaches standing behind would pass in Lebanon or Anatolia,the other two less so
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19388361_1653645308001426_760814466756763924_o.jpg ?oh=a5bae1e21a7ed9113206c0dadcb8bafb&oe=59D35753

Sikeliot

07-03-2017, 01:13 PM

Examples of Lebanese looking West Sicilians
This
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19399941_1653641214668502_434787979164819858_n.jpg ?oh=8f7e747aa39947efa7a2845bbe2336ec&oe=59CDC361

The two men with the moustaches standing behind would pass in Lebanon or Anatolia,they other two less so
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19388361_1653645308001426_760814466756763924_o.jpg ?oh=a5bae1e21a7ed9113206c0dadcb8bafb&oe=59D35753

Which region or area looks most Greek to you? Do you see any pictures that especially do?

Tauromachos

07-03-2017, 01:23 PM

From all regions there is good deal of people that can fit into Greece,easily
Don't even look particular exotic.
There are some pictures that pass even in Thrace and Epiros,i have to take a look again to give you examples and name the region.
So far i agree that Syrakuse is pretty Greek

Another thing.
Look at these two Sicilians
http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/pictures/s/sicilians/03.jpg
In particular the guy on the right'from my view' looks like what i would have thought of as typical Sicilian
How would you classify these two?

Sikeliot

07-03-2017, 01:30 PM

Tauromachos

07-03-2017, 01:40 PM

The people of Enna pass as Greeks mostly,a few are more southern shifted,others can pass anywhere,
Central Greece,Makedonia,Thrace,Epirus included.

Sikeliot

07-03-2017, 09:21 PM

The people of Enna pass as Greeks mostly,a few are more southern shifted,others can pass anywhere,
Central Greece,Makedonia,Thrace,Epirus included.

My impression is Enna, Syracuse look fully Greek.

brennus dux gallorum

07-17-2017, 08:00 PM

Which region or area looks most Greek to you? Do you see any pictures that especially do?

honestly, they are the most non-Greek looking Sicilians i have ever seen. They could pass in many places but only as exotic, the same time that in western sicily they are almost typical

Sikeliot

07-17-2017, 09:32 PM

honestly, they are the most non-Greek looking Sicilians i have ever seen. They could pass in many places but only as exotic, the same time that in western sicily they are almost typical

Eastern Sicilians look more like Calabrese and Aegean islanders, western Sicilians more like different Jewish groups. This is how I put it. Then you have mainland southerners from regions like Puglia and Basilicata who look more like mainland Greeks, and Campanians who drift toward Central Italians.

Akragas

09-30-2017, 05:12 AM

Sikeliot

09-30-2017, 05:19 AM

Have you even been to Sicily? You have know Idea what you are talking about, Agrigento and Segesta in the Western part of Sicily was all Greek before the arabs. These two regions have the most prominent examples of ancient Greek civilization, temples and relics in all of Sicily and perhaps the world. You need to go see with your own eyes before you claim to know.

They also had the largest Arabic speaking population and were the last to lose the Siculo-Arabic language. You're closer to Maltese and Jews genetically than to mainland Greece.

Akragas

09-30-2017, 05:28 AM

Spoken from a half breed Slav....... And by the way my mother was from Catania so I have both sides of the island in my blood .

Sikeliot

09-30-2017, 05:30 AM

Spoken from a half breed Slav....... And by the way my mother was from Catania so I have both sides of the island in my blood .

Greeks today are mixed with Slavic, I am probably closer in total to them than you are.

Akragas

09-30-2017, 05:35 AM

Yea but I'm full blood Sicilian and you aint, half breed.....

Akragas

09-30-2017, 05:51 AM

Perhaps you're Polish, Russian,Czech or Croatian more likely. You look Polish, not Sicilian.

Akragas

09-30-2017, 05:54 AM

And by the way I have nothing against the Polish people they are great people with a wonderful history. Have you ever been to a three day Polish weding OMG what a blast...

Sikeliot

09-30-2017, 11:46 AM

Yea but I'm full blood Sicilian and you aint, half breed.....

I didn't say I am closer to Sicilians. I said I am likely closer to many mainland Greeks genetically than you are, because you will plot way south of them on a PCA plot and I am only slightly north, though sometimes I am close to Epirotes and Thessalians.