Ancient Egyptians on GEDmatch

[Peterski]

Edit:

Here are new, better uploads (I'm adding to the OP so that everyone can see):

Mummy JK2134, 776-569 BC - GEDmatch kit - M287805
Mummy JK2911, 769-560 BC - GEDmatch kit - M558272
Mummy JK2888, 92 BC - 2 BC - GEDmatch kit - M832273

==================

First sample (best quality, 15034 SNPs used by K36):

JK2134 Pre-Ptolemaic Egypt 776-569 BC, kit number - Z459747:

Eurogenes K36:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 28.78
Armenian -
Basque 1.04
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 21.93
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 0.62
Indo-Chinese 0.49
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.96
North_African 7.39
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 6.50
Oceanian 0.32
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 5.97
Similarity rates to modern populations (based on K36 results):

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude2.htm

http://i.imgur.com/VM1vYrN.png

Edit2:

First look at ancient Egyptian mtDNA:

http://mtdnaatlas.blogspot.com/2017/06/first-look-at-ancient-egyptian-mtdna.html


Thanks to Schuenemann 2017 we finally have DNA from the ancient Egyptians. It sequenced three ancient Egyptian genomes and 90 ancient Egyptian mtDNA genomes. All of the samples come from Middle Egypt and range in age from about 1300 BC to 300 AD.

The genetic affinity of the ancient Egyptians doesn’t carry any surprises. They were native to the Middle East. With published ancient DNA we can trace their roots back 12,000 years to that region. But unlike other ancient Middle Eastern DNA, the ancient Egyptians also harbored a little bit of some sort of Sub Saharan African ancestry(5-10%).

I’ve taken a close look at the ancient Egyptian mtDNA results. So here’s a first glimpse into the mtDNA affinity of the ancient Egyptians…..

Like their genome-wide affinity the ancient Egyptian’s mtDNA is distinctively Near Eastern. Not just Middle Eastern but Near Eastern. Recall earlier this year I pointed out that modern Egyptian mtDNA shows affinity to the Near East not NorthWest Africa. They share most mtDNA first with modern Egyptians but then also Arabians and peoples in the Levant(Syria, Lebanon, etc). A mere 1%(1 sample) belonged to Sub Saharan African mHG L(xM, N). Modern Egypt though has a frequency of 20% frequency!

A handful of mHGs characterized ancient Egyptian mtDNA. 44% belonged to the following mHGs: R0a 7.8%, HV1 6.7%, J2a2 6.7%, T1a 14.4%, M1a 5.6%, I 4.4%.

Every single one of those mHGs is specific to the Near East-North Africa except for U6a and M1a which make a significant presence Iberia and many parts of Africa.

Today R0a, HV1, and J2a2 interesting all peak in Egypt. And the ancient Egyptians had as high of a frequency in those mHGs as you’ll find in any modern population. Their high frequency of J2a2(6.7%) is even more interesting considering it has been found in the Natufians. J2a2 seldom appears outside of the SouthWest Asia-North Africa. Last year I classified it Near Easter(See here). J in Europe is dominated by J1c while J1b-J1d dominates J in much of the Middle East.

R0a has a more international distribution than J2a2 and HV1. Like J2a2 it peaks in the Near East but it also surprisingly has a strong presence as far east as India. Several examples R0a have been found in Neolithic and Bronze age Jordan.

Saying the ancient Egyptians had a lot of T1a doesn’t say much considering T1a is equally popular in most of West Eurasia(from Ireland to Iran). The T1a clades the ancient Egyptians belonged to: T1a7, T1a2, T1a5, T1a8, all are Near Eastern-specific. None of them belonged to European-SC Asian T1a1. Most of my modern T1a7 samples are from Egypt. All of my Egyptian T1a7 samples belong to an unclassified T1a7 clade, it’ll be interesting to see if these ancient Egyptians belonged to that clade.

Here’s the most important differences between ancient Egyptian mtDNA and modern Egyptian+Near Eastern mtDNA: moderns have a lot more J1b, H, U3, and African L(xM, N).

[Sikeliot]

Send me its GEDmatch ID?

They're closer to Sicilians, Cretans, Dodecanese than to Turks. Interesting.

[Peterski]

Send me its GEDmatch ID?

There are three samples, but two are of lower quality.

Numbers of SNPs utilized by Eurogenes K36 for each sample:

JK2134 776-569 BC (kit Z459747) - 15034 SNPs used in this evaluation

JK2911 769-560 BC (kit Z343728) - 3933 SNPs used in this evaluation

This one is younger, from the 1st century BC:

JK2888 97-2 BC (kit Z094469) - 6202 SNPs used in this evaluation

JK2911 is the best quality, then JK2888 and the worst is JK2134.

Low coverage samples (not many SNPs) can sometimes have unreliable results.

==========================

Edit: Another upload of JK2888, 97-2 BC (by mlukas), kit M832273.

This upload is of better qualiy - 21444 SNPs used in this evaluation.

Eurogenes K36 results:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 13.88
Armenian 0.39
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 20.46
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 6.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 27.52
North_African 12.82
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.78
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 14.33
http://i.imgur.com/F1qpq8Y.png

[Sikeliot]

Here are their Eurogenes K15 and Dodecad K12b.

One of the three goes in the direction of Ashkenazim, Sicilians, etc. The other two are more like a mixture of modern Egyptians and Levantines.

#1:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.5
2 Red_Sea 27.32
3 Atlantic 14.96
4 West_Med 14.41
5 Sub-Saharan 3.78
6 Baltic 3.15
7 Southeast_Asian 1.88

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bedouin 19.47
2 Tunisian 20.17
3 Saudi 20.65
4 Tunisian_Jewish 20.84
5 Egyptian 20.94
6 Sephardic_Jewish 21.44
7 Algerian_Jewish 21.65
8 Algerian 22.23
9 Libyan_Jewish 22.42
10 Palestinian 22.58
11 Italian_Jewish 22.88
12 Moroccan 23.49
13 Mozabite_Berber 23.8
14 Jordanian 23.85
15 Yemenite_Jewish 24.33
16 Samaritan 24.45
17 Syrian 24.96
18 Ashkenazi 25.23
19 West_Sicilian 25.91
20 East_Sicilian 26.15




# Population Percent
1 Southwest_Asian 37.95
2 Caucasus 27.46
3 Atlantic_Med 18.03
4 Sub_Saharan 6.09
5 Northwest_African 5.58
6 Gedrosia 4.89

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bedouin (HGDP) 13.26
2 Palestinian (HGDP) 15.69
3 Jordanians (Behar) 17.16
4 Yemenese (Behar) 17.55
5 Syrians (Behar) 17.85
6 Egyptans (Behar) 18.55
7 Lebanese (Behar) 21.41
8 Samaritians (Behar) 22.19
9 Yemen_Jews (Behar) 23.04
10 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 23.95
11 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 25.73
12 Druze (HGDP) 26.08
13 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 27.24
14 Cypriots (Behar) 28.82
15 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 29.49
16 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 30.4
17 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 30.45
18 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.79
19 Sicilian (Dodecad) 31.15
20 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 31.23



#2:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 46.64
2 West_Med 17.83
3 Red_Sea 15.83
4 Northeast_African 8.32
5 South_Asian 6.07
6 Sub-Saharan 3.54
7 Baltic 1.77

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Egyptian 14.36
2 Palestinian 16.73
3 Libyan_Jewish 16.82
4 Bedouin 17.51
5 Jordanian 17.73
6 Samaritan 18.02
7 Yemenite_Jewish 19.52
8 Tunisian_Jewish 19.55
9 Algerian_Jewish 21.13
10 Lebanese_Christian 21.22
11 Syrian 21.56
12 Tunisian 21.95
13 Algerian 22.64
14 Cyprian 22.71
15 Lebanese_Druze 22.71
16 Italian_Jewish 23.04
17 Sephardic_Jewish 23.23
18 Saudi 23.41
19 Lebanese_Muslim 23.75
20 Moroccan 24.91



# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 37.89
2 Southwest_Asian 29.51
3 Northwest_African 15.36
4 Atlantic_Med 7.25
5 East_African 6.75
6 South_Asian 3.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Egyptans (Behar) 12.24
2 Palestinian (HGDP) 12.28
3 Jordanians (Behar) 13.89
4 Samaritians (Behar) 16.73
5 Lebanese (Behar) 17.29
6 Syrians (Behar) 17.99
7 Bedouin (HGDP) 18.52
8 Druze (HGDP) 20.24
9 Yemenese (Behar) 20.42
10 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 23.66
11 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 24.84
12 Cypriots (Behar) 25.27
13 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 25.71
14 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 25.73
15 Yemen_Jews (Behar) 26.31
16 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 27.3
17 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 27.54
18 Assyrian (Dodecad) 28.47
19 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 28.63
20 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 28.77


#3:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 43.35
2 Red_Sea 23.67
3 West_Med 16.3
4 Northeast_African 7.62
5 Atlantic 4.23
6 West_Asian 3.48
7 Southeast_Asian 1.3
8 Amerindian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Egyptian 12.96
2 Bedouin 13.08
3 Palestinian 14.64
4 Yemenite_Jewish 15.02
5 Saudi 15.79
6 Jordanian 16.18
7 Libyan_Jewish 16.29
8 Samaritan 16.48
9 Tunisian_Jewish 17.69
10 Syrian 19.8
11 Lebanese_Christian 20.13
12 Algerian_Jewish 20.67
13 Sephardic_Jewish 21.27
14 Italian_Jewish 21.73
15 Tunisian 21.88
16 Cyprian 22.03
17 Lebanese_Muslim 22.35
18 Algerian 22.77
19 Lebanese_Druze 22.92
20 Moroccan 23.99


# Population Percent
1 Southwest_Asian 37.56
2 Caucasus 33.01
3 Atlantic_Med 11.42
4 Northwest_African 9.87
5 East_African 5.61
6 Southeast_Asian 1.52
7 South_Asian 1.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bedouin (HGDP) 9.73
2 Palestinian (HGDP) 11.46
3 Egyptans (Behar) 12.7
4 Jordanians (Behar) 14.41
5 Yemenese (Behar) 16.69
6 Samaritians (Behar) 17.19
7 Syrians (Behar) 17.28
8 Yemen_Jews (Behar) 18.08
9 Lebanese (Behar) 19.44
10 Druze (HGDP) 23.17
11 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 25.67
12 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 25.81
13 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 26.96
14 Cypriots (Behar) 27.76
15 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 28.64
16 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 30.18
17 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 30.35
18 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 30.91
19 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 31.25
20 Assyrian (Dodecad) 31.73

[Lucas]

Hey, you can check different upload of Jk2888. I converted this using Bam Analysis Tool and I've got better coveraged sample (82 000 SNP).

Results are also different partly but still MENA (without SSA).

M832273

Amerindian -
Arabian 13.88
Armenian 0.39
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 20.46
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 6.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 27.52
North_African 12.82
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.78
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 14.33

I will post oracles shortly.

[Ibericus]

Best fit on gedmatch is on Dodecad World9 with this :

71.9% Yemen_Jews (Behar) + 28.1% Sardinian @ 3.92

[Wadaad]

How do we know this was not an Assyrian colonizer since Ancient Egypt was under them during this time? The genetics seem to suggest so

[The Illyrian Warrior]

Closer to south Europeans then to closest African neighbors of south. turn out that we wuz kangz and sheit to be just a damn lie.

[Pahli]

How do we know this was not an Assyrian colonizer since Ancient Egypt was under them during this time? The genetics seem to suggest so

Ancient Assyrians were much more West Asian shifted and less Levantine shifted. I doubt they are Assyrian.

[Wadaad]

Ancient Assyrians were much more West Asian shifted and less Levantine shifted. I doubt they are Assyrian.

Well why are they not at the least, North Africans?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Do they differ a lot from modern day Egyptians?

[Pahli]

Well why are they not at the least, North Africans?

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Near_East 42.95
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 34.77
3 West-Asian 20.64
4 Sub-Saharian 0.95
5 Arctic-Amerind 0.68

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Libya (derived) 10.16
2 Jew_Tunisia (derived) 11.91
3 Samaritian (derived) 13.81
4 Jew_Algeria (derived) 14.19
5 Jew_Morocco (derived) 14.24
6 Palestinian (derived) 14.97
7 Sephardim (derived) 15.17
8 Jew_Syria (derived) 16.49
9 Jew_Italia (derived) 16.89
10 Jew_Francestrale (derived) 17.54
11 Cypriot (derived) 18.15
12 Jordanian (derived) 19.17
13 Lebanese (derived) 19.83
14 Druze (derived) 19.84
15 Ashkenazim (derived) 20.67
16 Syrian (derived) 21.47
17 Egyptian (derived) 21.76
18 Greek_Cretan (derived) 23.65
19 Sicilian (derived) 24.55
20 Jew_Georgia (derived) 24.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.4% Jew_Yemen (derived) + 25.6% Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic (ancestral) @ 4.29
2 71.9% Samaritian (derived) + 28.1% Otzi (derived) @ 4.53
3 71.7% Saudi (derived) + 28.3% Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic (ancestral) @ 5.82
4 83.2% Jew_Algeria (derived) + 16.8% Near_East (ancestral) @ 6.15
5 88.7% Jew_Libya (derived) + 11.3% Near_East (ancestral) @ 6.19

I am not sure, but I think its the absent of SSA that makes the difference.

[Egyptian]

ahhh love how every 2 days they open a thread about the Egyptians and their ethnic group.

[Wadaad]

ahhh love how every 2 days they open a thread about the Egyptians and their ethnic group.

Well I blame the Egyptian antiquities for having some biased European team to select the mummies. And its funny how even in that STUDY, the authors save themselves by stating tests from other sites and other mummies might give different results. I wonder if an archaelogical group from Howard University or some other HCBU came to Zahi Hawass or his colleagues, they would be so willing to let them do their research?

[Egyptian]

Well I blame the Egyptian antiquities for having some biased European team to select the mummies. And its funny how even in that STUDY, the authors save themselves by stating tests from other sites and other mummies might give different results. I wonder if an archaelogical group from Howard University or some other HCBU came to Zahi Hawass or his colleagues, they would be so willing to let them do their research?

zahi hawas is a joke.. European teams aren't qualified to do any research here , they lack knowledge or basic understanding of the egyptian history or both Arabic and old egyptian language , they need translator with them.

zahi or ministry of antiques used to hire them just because of tourism (to bring more money to the country and probably use their modern equipments).

[RN97]

Well I blame the Egyptian antiquities for having some biased European team to select the mummies. And its funny how even in that STUDY, the authors save themselves by stating tests from other sites and other mummies might give different results. I wonder if an archaelogical group from Howard University or some other HCBU came to Zahi Hawass or his colleagues, they would be so willing to let them do their research?

Just accept it nigga, u wuzn't kangz n' sheeit. Anchun Egypshunz share as much DNA with your people as they do with Croats.

[Wadaad]

Just accept it nigga, u wuzn't kangz n' sheeit. Anchun Egypshunz share as much DNA with your people as they do with Croats.

Dont cum and use it as hairgel just yet my frizzy haired homeboy...this is just the latest study and I already determined the biases which you have failed to address.

[RN97]

Dont cum and use it as hairgel just yet my frizzy haired homeboy...this is just the latest study and I already determined the biases which you have failed to address.

You'd be surprised at how many jiggaboos have given me a similar response on youtube and stuff....
Don't be exited just yet! Why dawg? I have my genetic results and you'd be like twice as close to the egypshuns than I'd be. I don't give a fuck m8, but I'm being realistic. You know there are Europeans that claim genetic continuity from PIE and no change at all, that's just not realistic. However there is a connection there at least.... I guess you can claim the basal Eurasian connection with Egyptians, but why not with the modern ones more so? Anyways your argument is weak. Let's say they find this ancient Egyptian with 35% SSA. you still lose as they found these with less than modern ones, so what does it change? It only proves that ancient Egyptians varied, but on average they were still predominantly not SSA.

[Wadaad]

You'd be surprised at how many jiggaboos have given me a similar response on youtube and stuff....
Don't be exited just yet! Why dawg? I have my genetic results and you'd be like twice as close to the egypshuns than I'd be. I don't give a fuck m8, but I'm being realistic. You know there are Europeans that claim genetic continuity from PIE and no change at all, that's just not realistic. However there is a connection there at least.... I guess you can claim the basal Eurasian connection with Egyptians, but why not with the modern ones more so? Anyways your argument is weak. Let's say they find this ancient Egyptian with 35% SSA. you still lose as they found these with less than modern ones, so what does it change? It only proves that ancient Egyptians varied, but on average they were still predominantly not SSA.

Egypt was multi-racial as even Biblical narratives testify, unless biblical authors imagined Moses (a non-Egyptian raised in Egypt) betrothal to a Ethiopian woman.

If Toronto was to get tested...and the site used for the test is the Dixon rd Cemetery, people would assume this city was predominately inhabited by Somalis. Soon with some creative writing alot could be postulated just on that.

[Jana]

Just accept it nigga, u wuzn't kangz n' sheeit. Anchun Egypshunz share as much DNA with your people as they do with Croats.
That doesn't sound to realistic. Horners are suposed to be almost like half-Arab/semitic , and if ancient Egyptians were Levantine like they are expected to be closer to them, no?
I'm bit consfuesd about these results.

[Peterski]

Do they differ a lot from modern day Egyptians?

Modern Egyptians have more of Sub-Saharan admixture compared to those ancients.

[Wadaad]

That doesn't sound to realistic. Horners are suposed to be almost like half-Arab/semitic , and if ancient Egyptians were Levantine like they are expected to be closer to them, no?
I'm bit consfuesd about these results.

forget the Horners...that they are closer to Levantines than Berbers (and the only North Africans they do closely share are North African JEWS) makes even less sense. It is clear to me, factoring the period used aswell, that these were Assyro-Hyksoid Egyptians, which are as native as Libyo-Egyptians and Cushitic-Egyptians...

[RN97]

That doesn't sound to realistic. Horners are suposed to be almost like half-Arab/semitic , and if ancient Egyptians were Levantine like they are expected to be closer to them, no?
I'm bit consfuesd about these results.

But Croats are also like ~32 "arab/ semitic", basically basal. The rest is WHG and ANE, closer to basal than SSA. Makes perfect sense. To make it clear, neither are close to them, but they're around equally close.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s13.postimg.org/i1yfui153/ancient_egyptian.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ofnixr60z/)

https://s13.postimg.org/qixy5f5tz/egy.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/hb5popyrn/)



Plots much norther than modern Egyptians.

[Jana]

But Croats are also like ~32 "arab/ semitic", basically basal. The rest is WHG and ANE, closer to basal than SSA. Makes perfect sense. To make it clear, neither are close to them, but they're around equally close.
European neolithic/med ancestry isn't the same to what Arabs have, their neolithic is more Caucasian related, while ours is Sardinian.

[JMack]

European neolitihc/med ancestry isn't the same to what Arabs have, their neolithic is more Caucasian related, while ours is Sardinian.

I'm not an expert, but I think what you're saying is not true. It's the same component, but in different proportions. You're saying this just because you don't want to share ~30% of your ancestry with arabs/semites. But the fact is that all West Eurasian populations are related one way or another. TA members... lol

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s18.postimg.org/y9bdxxkq1/anegy.jpg


Ancient Egyptian (SPA) Autosomal Map (Eurogenes k36)

[Jana]

I'm not an expert, but I think what you're saying is not true. It's the same component, but in different proportions. You're saying this just because you don't want to share ~30% of your ancestry with arabs/semites. But the fact is that all West Eurasian populations are related one way or another. TA members... lol

If you aren't expert, than better stay quiet. No, it isn't the same. In MDLP K16 modern (newest calculator), there is neolithic component (peaks in Basques/Sardinian) and that is what most Europeans have, while it is very low in middle east. Another basal-ralated component is ''Caucasian'' which is very high in Arabs and Levantines (togheder with near eastern), with is basal + ANE.

Neolithic (as European neolithic like Stuttgart individual) is not strong in MENA, while Caucasian is (and in Europe it is strongest only in south-eastern Europe).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Eurasia K3 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 W_Eurasian 87.19
2 SSA 10.29
3 E_Eurasian 2.53


Finished reading population data. 129 populations found.
3 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Jordanian @ 0.777173
2 Syrian @ 1.273583
3 Palestinian @ 1.440177
4 Saudi @ 2.703868
5 Yemenite_Jew @ 2.821716
6 Lebanese @ 3.023229
7 BedouinA @ 6.265167
8 Iraqi_Jew @ 9.205273
9 Kurd_C @ 9.303138
10 Iranian_Jew @ 9.730585
11 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 9.944489
12 Iranian @ 10.201332
13 Assyrian @ 10.221062
14 Georgian_Jew @ 10.311737
15 Kurd_N @ 10.383951
16 Sicilian @ 11.052952
17 Cypriot @ 11.069139
18 Armenian @ 11.245674
19 Abkhasian @ 12.216263
20 Turkish @ 12.269330

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% English +50% Yemen @ 0.000000
2 50% French +50% Yemen @ 0.000000
3 50% Palestinian +50% Syrian @ 0.400284
4 50% Albanian +50% Yemen @ 0.514093
5 50% French_South +50% Yemen @ 0.559663
6 50% Croatian +50% Yemen @ 0.574977
7 50% Jordanian +50% Syrian @ 0.611787
8 50% Czech +50% Yemen @ 0.615567
9 50% Jordanian +50% Palestinian @ 0.658267
10 50% Bergamo +50% Yemen @ 0.697884
11 50% Greek +50% Yemen @ 0.713662
12 50% Jordanian +50% Jordanian @ 0.777173
13 50% Norwegian +50% Yemen @ 0.790550
14 50% Jordanian +50% Saudi @ 0.999853
15 50% Jordanian +50% Yemenite_Jew @ 1.104780
16 50% LBK_EN +50% Yemen @ 1.134636
17 50% Bulgarian +50% Yemen @ 1.143629
18 50% Sardinian +50% Yemen @ 1.151326
19 50% Jordanian +50% Lebanese @ 1.164294
20 50% Hungarian +50% Yemen @ 1.257390


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian +25% BedouinA +25% Yemen @ 0.000000

[Pahli]

If you aren't expert, than better stay quiet. No, it isn't the same. In MDLP K16 modern (newest calculator), there is neolithic component (peaks in Basques/Sardinian) and that is what most Europeans have, while it is very low in middle east. Another basal-ralated component is ''Caucasian'' which is very high in Arabs and Levantines (togheder with near eastern), with is basal + ANE.

Neolithic (as European neolithic like Stuttgart individual) is not strong in MENA, while Caucasian is (and in Europe it is strongest only in south-eastern Europe).

Caucasian is not really that basal (its 50% ANE), Near Eastern / Natufian however is very basal in comparison (Around 80% compared to 45 - 50% in Caucasian). Anatolian_NF can be found at reasonable amounts in the Middle East (haven't seen it peak over 30% tho) while Caucasian is mostly frequent among upper West Asian countries.

This is CHG / Caucasian:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 48.8
2 Natufian 41.89
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 6.95
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 1.65
5 Sub_Saharan 0.71

This is Natufian / Near Eastern:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 93.81
2 Sub_Saharan 3.73
3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 2.46

And last but not least, Anatolian farmer:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 60.46
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 36.29
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 1.79
4 Sub_Saharan 0.79
5 East_Asian 0.67

[RN97]

European neolithic/med ancestry isn't the same to what Arabs have, their neolithic is more Caucasian related, while ours is Sardinian.

It's the same. Sardinians today are ~45% basal and ~55% Euro HG, they have pretty much no ANE. That's what this "early European farmer" is like. It's just getting the admixture from an already admixed source rather than the pure source.

[Jana]

Caucasian is not really that basal (its 50% ANE), Near Eastern / Natufian however is very basal in comparison (Around 80% compared to 45 - 50% in Caucasian). Anatolian_NF can be found at reasonable amounts in the Middle East (haven't seen it peak over 30% tho) while Caucasian is mostly frequent among upper West Asian countries.

Yes, more or less, we agree here.

[JMack]

If you aren't expert, than better stay quiet. No, it isn't the same. In MDLP K16 modern (newest calculator), there is neolithic component (peaks in Basques/Sardinian) and that is what most Europeans have, while it is very low in middle east. Another basal-ralated component is ''Caucasian'' which is very high in Arabs and Levantines (togheder with near eastern), with is basal + ANE.

Neolithic (as European neolithic like Stuttgart individual) is not strong in MENA, while Caucasian is (and in Europe it is strongest only in south-eastern Europe).

Again, I think you're wrong. I'm being humble to admit my lack of knowledge, but it seems you're no expert as well.

Calculators can manipulate the components in a very specific way, discriminating the more common ones in certain populations. But Basal Eurasian is basically derived from the same populations that has been differentiated locally. That's the reason you find certain Euro populations overlaping in certain components with other West Eurasians.

What I'm saying is nothing absurd, just genetic common sense. Western Eurasian populations are all related.

[Jana]

Again, I think you're wrong. I'm being humble to admit my lack of knowledge, but it seems you're no expert as well.
Calculators can manipulate the components in a very specific way, discriminating the more common ones in certain populations. But Basal Eurasian is basically derived from the same populations that has been differentiated locally. That's the reason you find certain Euro populations overlaping in certain components with other West Eurasians.
What I'm saying is nothing absurd, just genetic common sense. Western Eurasian populations are all related.

I'm no expert either, but have decent understanding of components.
You aren't honest and neutral perosn, few day ago you claimed elderly Croats look like middle easteners to other Europeans and that they are darker than east Asians, because I wrote how East Asians obviously swarthy compared to native Europeans.

:picard1:

[JMack]

I'm no expert either, but have decent understanding of components.
You aren't honest and neutral perosn, few day ago you claimed elderly Croats look like middle easteners to other Europeans and that they are darker than east Asians, because I wrote how East Asians obviously swarthy compared to native Europeans.

:picard1:

What? I have never done this.

Prove it. Dishonest accusations are one of the lowest things someone can do.

[Pahli]

It's the same. Sardinians today are ~45% basal and ~55% Euro HG, they have pretty much no ANE. That's what this "early European farmer" is like. It's just getting the admixture from an already admixed source rather than the pure source.

Only 5% less Natufian than me lol. It explains why they are southern shifted.

[Jana]

What? I have never done this.
Prove. Dishonest accusations are one of the lowest things someone can do.

Sorry! I checked it, and it wasn't you, but user Bonpal who wrote that. You have my apologies.

[RN97]

Only 5% less Natufian than me lol. It explains why they are southern shifted.

It's mostly due to (don't know for sure, but I think) the lacking ANE component. They're around as southern as Tuscans while having more European HG admixture. I think ANE and even amerindian shifts you north. At least I remember someone said it, I think it's correct.

BTW sauce:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=289082796

[Puritan Benedict]

#1:
# Population Percent
5 Sub-Saharan 3.78


Wait..... U be sayin'..... We wuznt kangz n' sheit? Sheeeiiittt.

https://bbs.dailystormer.com/uploads/default/original/3X/0/6/06ae41b5cf947ed74b0c7c9f85a7f0c0ac7c9885.jpeg

[Jana]

Sardinians aren't really southern, but very western shifted. And their phenotypes look fully Europid, MENA looking people are rarity there.
http://nationalvanguard.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/sardinians-sardinian-people-18.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MuX4Lqazb3w/UEARGVOZZJI/AAAAAAAABU0/UarI2ESPPpQ/s1600/sardinians+sardinian+people+sardinia+%252815%2529. jpg
http://passportto.iberostar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pic-IBP-Europe-Sardinia-couple-in-folk-dress-iStock_000017856775Small1.jpg

I gues that is because they don't have any recent extra-European influences.

[Lucas]

Soon I will uplaod rest genomes. We could compare.

[Sika]

Sardinians aren't really southern, but very western shifted. And their phenotypes look fully Europid, MENA looking people are rarity there.
http://nationalvanguard.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/sardinians-sardinian-people-18.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MuX4Lqazb3w/UEARGVOZZJI/AAAAAAAABU0/UarI2ESPPpQ/s1600/sardinians+sardinian+people+sardinia+%252815%2529. jpg
http://passportto.iberostar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/pic-IBP-Europe-Sardinia-couple-in-folk-dress-iStock_000017856775Small1.jpg

I gues that is because they don't have any recent extra-European influences.

I agree, they're dominant admixture is WHG.

Sardinian :HGDP00669

WHG - 54.9
Basal-rich - 44.86
Sub-Saharan - 0.09
Oceanian - 0.03
East_Eurasian - 0.1
Southeast_Asian - 0
ANE - 0

Other two samples are similar, no ANE in Sardinians.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=759455264

[Sika]

Btw, note that Villabruna has ANE, about 11% ANE admixture. So, that's where all their small ANE admixture could be going.

[Dick]

Egypt was multi-racial as even Biblical narratives testify, unless biblical authors imagined Moses (a non-Egyptian raised in Egypt) betrothal to a Ethiopian woman.

If Toronto was to get tested...and the site used for the test is the Dixon rd Cemetery, people would assume this city was predominately inhabited by Somalis. Soon with some creative writing alot could be postulated just on that.

Lol

Wadaad just do the test. I know you have the 23andme kit in your house :heh:

[Smitty]

I have to admit Wadaad has a point. I would like to know how they know these were ethnic Egyptians. That being said, it's not crazy at all to believe they were similar to modern-day Jordanians. That's a very small geographic distance.

[Friends of Oliver Society]

Oh, thank God it's just evidence that Egyptians werent some variation of Negro and not something worse. I heard a cry of pain that sounded like Wadaad. I had to check the forum to see if he was okay. Thank God.

[Argentano]

So extremely low ssa?

[Peterski]

So extremely low ssa?

"Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of SSA in post-Roman periods":

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/extref/ncomms15694-s6.pdf

[Puritan Benedict]

So extremely low ssa?

Yes, you are right into assuming that, because niggers are not egyptians like they claim to be.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

http://abcnews.go.com/images/International/gty_omar_sharif_jr_jt_120318_wblog.jpg

Ancient Egyptians could (speculating) have produced this type of phenotype according to the the results (he is half-Jewish\half-Arab).

[SardiniaAtlantis]

Look at all the Nordic countries 0,1,2 and a rare 3 as if we needed proof that the nutjob nodicists who post "Ancient Egyptians wiz Nordicks, Ancient Romans and Greeks wha Nordicks too" are pulling it out of their ass.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Look at all the Nordic countries 0,1,2 and a rare 3 as if we needed proof that the nutjob nodicists who post "Ancient Egyptians wiz Nordicks, Ancient Romans and Greeks wha Nordicks too" are pulling it out of their ass.

I think it is the other way around, lol. Usually it is negros who claim Ancient Egyptian history. They were more likely to look like this:

http://abcnews.go.com/images/International/gty_omar_sharif_jr_jt_120318_wblog.jpg

http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Shoshana_4710132228E96.jpg


Than this:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/hutu101/16-2.jpg

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I think it is the other way around, lol. Usually it is negros who claim Ancient Egyptian history. Fact is that they were infinitely more likely to look like this:

http://abcnews.go.com/images/International/gty_omar_sharif_jr_jt_120318_wblog.jpg



http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/hutu101/16-2.jpg
Both camps are nutjobs Yes it's usually the Afrocentrists but there is a camp of Nordicists as well who do this. Either way it's annoying as hell.
Than this:

[Lucas]

Mummy JK2911

Gedmatch: M287805


before

Amerindian -
Arabian 24.24
Armenian -
Basque 7.76
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 1.43
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 22.76
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 38.80
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.91
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese 0.40
Volga-Ural -
West_African 0.70
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -


now

Amerindian -
Arabian 23.05
Armenian 0.23
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 30.50
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 27.54
North_African 9.60
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 9.08

Quite Egyptian...

https://s14.postimg.org/993qp7odt/2934.jpg

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Samaritan @ 17,363916
2 Egypt @ 19,397813
3 Bedouin_ISR @ 21,268143
4 Levant @ 21,302996
5 Palestina @ 21,966109
6 Iraqi_Jews @ 25,407251
7 Jordan @ 25,432553
8 Yemen_North @ 28,389268
9 Sephardi_Jews @ 28,71282
10 Cyprus @ 30,506932
11 Assyrian @ 30,574521
12 Azeri_Jews @ 32,533193
13 Saudi @ 32,793903
14 Askhenazi @ 35,324637
15 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 35,817098
16 Sicily_Messina @ 37,012288
17 GR_Crete @ 37,21783
18 GR_Ikaria @ 37,249408
19 GR_Dodecanes @ 37,258806
20 Malta @ 37,290621
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan @ 15,959275
2 Egypt+Samaritan @ 16,081697
3 Yemen_North+Samaritan @ 16,82063
4 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 17,363916
5 Bedouin_ISR+Levant @ 17,93403
6 Saudi+Samaritan @ 18,288361
7 Levant+Yemen_North @ 18,445872
8 Egypt+Levant @ 18,47509
9 Druze+Saudi @ 18,482525
10 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR @ 18,519405
11 Bedouin_ISR+Iraqi_Jews @ 18,756824
12 Bedouin_ISR+Palestina @ 18,918358
13 Yemen_North+Iraqi_Jews @ 18,979849
14 Levant+Samaritan @ 19,094835
15 Palestina+Samaritan @ 19,157529
16 Levant+Saudi @ 19,19297
17 Bedouin_ISR+Druze @ 19,281773
18 Egypt+Iraqi_Jews @ 19,309723
19 Egypt+Egypt @ 19,397813
20 Yemen_North+Cyprus @ 19,404183
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Egypt +25% Druze +25% Saudi @ 14,036646
2 50% Samaritan +25% Druze +25% Saudi @ 14,101047
3 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Druze +25% Samaritan @ 14,277529
4 50% Samaritan +25% Druze +25% Yemen_North @ 14,717672
5 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Saudi @ 14,718687
6 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Egypt +25% Druze @ 14,825147
7 50% Yemen_North +25% Druze +25% Samaritan @ 14,918873
8 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% Druze @ 14,980508
9 50% Samaritan +25% Yemen_North +25% Samaritan @ 14,984024
10 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Yemen_North @ 15,075313
11 50% Saudi +25% Druze +25% Samaritan @ 15,120819
12 50% Samaritan +25% Saudi +25% Samaritan @ 15,148686
13 50% Saudi +25% Egypt +25% Druze @ 15,37311
14 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Druze +25% Palestina @ 15,417294
15 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 15,453986
16 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Druze +25% Levant @ 15,493575
17 50% Palestina +25% Druze +25% Saudi @ 15,523152
18 50% Saudi +25% Druze +25% Palestina @ 15,597263
19 50% Egypt +25% Saudi +25% Samaritan @ 15,618308
20 50% Samaritan +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% Druze @ 15,633001
16465724 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Egypt+Druze+Saudi+Samaritan @ 13,336646
2 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Saudi+Samaritan @ 13,842878
3 Egypt+Egypt+Druze+Saudi @ 14,036646
4 Druze+Saudi+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,101047
5 Algeria+Druze+Saudi+Samaritan @ 14,198815
6 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Saudi @ 14,263257
7 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Samaritan @ 14,277529
8 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Yemen_North+Samaritan @ 14,284401
9 Egypt+Druze+Palestina+Saudi @ 14,354562
10 Egypt+Druze+Levant+Saudi @ 14,482996
11 Egypt+Druze+Yemen_North+Samaritan @ 14,53353
12 Morocco+Druze+Saudi+Samaritan @ 14,578887
13 Druze+Palestina+Saudi+Samaritan @ 14,616931
14 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Palestina+Saudi @ 14,692363
15 Druze+Saudi+Yemen_North+Samaritan @ 14,709611
16 Druze+Yemen_North+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,717672
17 Egypt+Saudi+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,718687
18 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Levant+Saudi @ 14,817964
19 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Druze @ 14,825147
20 Druze+Yemen_North+Yemen_North+Samaritan @ 14,918873
21 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Druze @ 14,980508
22 Yemen_North+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,984024
23 Druze+Levant+Saudi+Samaritan @ 15,027653
24 Egypt+Druze+Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 15,045713
25 Egypt+Yemen_North+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 15,075313
26 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Samaritan @ 15,084403
27 Druze+Saudi+Samaritan+Jordan @ 15,084458
28 Druze+Saudi+Saudi+Samaritan @ 15,120819
29 Egypt+Druze+Saudi+Jordan @ 15,143
30 Tunisia+Druze+Saudi+Samaritan @ 15,145102
31 Saudi+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 15,148686
32 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Yemen_North @ 15,213361
33 Algeria+Egypt+Druze+Saudi @ 15,220295
34 Egypt+Druze+Saudi+Iraqi_Jews @ 15,315277
35 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 15,347301
36 Egypt+Druze+Saudi+Saudi @ 15,37311
37 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Palestina+Yemen_North @ 15,377526
38 Algeria+Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Saudi @ 15,407625
39 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Palestina @ 15,417294
40 Bedouin_ISR+Druze+Levant+Yemen_North @ 15,422177
494168039 iterations.


Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Samaritan @ 3,949157
2 Egypt @ 4,137257
3 Bedouin_ISR @ 5,065959
4 Palestina @ 5,258418
5 Sephardi_Jews @ 5,377158
6 Levant @ 5,420665
7 Jordan @ 5,848994
8 Algeria @ 6,449715
9 Malta @ 6,495923
10 Tunisia @ 6,601421
11 Askhenazi @ 6,834001
12 Sicily_Agrigento @ 6,84459
13 Sicily_Messina @ 6,915012
14 IT_Calabria @ 6,994879
15 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 7,067272
16 Sicily_Palermo @ 7,119325
17 Sicily_Catania @ 7,1433
18 Morocco @ 7,200742
19 Sicily_Ragusa @ 7,214651
20 Yemen_North @ 7,227849
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 3,949157
2 Egypt+Samaritan @ 4,096149
3 Egypt+Egypt @ 4,137257
4 Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan @ 4,306386
5 Yemen_North+Samaritan @ 4,488806
6 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR @ 4,506928
7 Saudi+Samaritan @ 4,516014
8 Egypt+Yemen_North @ 4,598494
9 Egypt+Saudi @ 4,617468
10 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 4,687087
11 Palestina+Samaritan @ 4,700395
12 Egypt+Levant @ 4,7407
13 Levant+Samaritan @ 4,744243
14 Algeria+Samaritan @ 4,745944
15 Egypt+Palestina @ 4,765598
16 Egypt+Iraqi_Jews @ 4,778672
17 Morocco+Samaritan @ 4,841
18 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 4,864971
19 Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 4,873356
20 Samaritan+Jordan @ 4,892794
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Samaritan @ 4,055164
2 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% Samaritan @ 4,096149
3 50% Samaritan +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan @ 4,128385
4 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% Samaritan @ 4,134326
5 50% Samaritan +25% Saudi +25% Samaritan @ 4,150144
6 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 4,184025
7 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Saudi @ 4,187009
8 50% Samaritan +25% Yemen_North +25% Samaritan @ 4,204863
9 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% Yemen_North @ 4,220283
10 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 4,227518
11 50% Egypt +25% Saudi +25% Samaritan @ 4,228873
12 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 4,239661
13 50% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan @ 4,248269
14 50% Egypt +25% Yemen_North +25% Samaritan @ 4,260043
15 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% Saudi @ 4,273544
16 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% Yemen_North @ 4,283921
17 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Saudi @ 4,296073
18 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Saudi @ 4,302149
19 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan +25% Samaritan @ 4,306386
20 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 4,318657
12732848 iterations.

[Lucas]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Bonpal]

I'm no expert either, but have decent understanding of components.
You aren't honest and neutral perosn, few day ago you claimed elderly Croats look like middle easteners to other Europeans and that they are darker than east Asians, because I wrote how East Asians obviously swarthy compared to native Europeans.

:picard1:

you said that east asians have "dark skin naturally, darker than swarthiest southern Europeans" which is absurd.

[Isleño]

So extremely low ssa?

In the Shuenemann et al. 2017 study, the SSA was between 6%-12% for the ancients. It showed modern Egyptians picked 8% more SSA within the last 750 years. The mummies in this study showed verified continuity through the New Kingdom, Ptolemaic and Roman periods, showing no influence from foreign admixture. The ancients showed to be just over half Natufian with the rest being a mix of Anatolian and Neolithic Iran. Some of these results here are somewhat similar.

[Isleño]

There are three samples, but two are of lower quality.

Numbers of SNPs utilized by Eurogenes K36 for each sample:

JK2134 776-569 BC (kit Z343728) - 3933 SNPs used in this evaluation

JK2911 769-560 BC (kit Z459747) - 15034 SNPs used in this evaluation

This one is younger, from the 1st century BC:

JK2888 97-2 BC (kit Z094469) - 6202 SNPs used in this evaluation

JK2911 is the best quality, then JK2888 and the worst is JK2134.

Low coverage samples (not many SNPs) can sometimes have unreliable results.

==========================

Edit: Another upload of JK2888, 97-2 BC (by mlukas), kit M832273.

This upload is of better qualiy - 21444 SNPs used in this evaluation.

Eurogenes K36 results:

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 13.88
Armenian 0.39
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 20.46
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 6.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 27.52
North_African 12.82
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.78
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 14.33
http://i.imgur.com/F1qpq8Y.png


Kit Num: M832273
Threshold of components set to 1.000
Threshold of method set to 0.25%
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
Gedmatch.Com

Dodecad K12b 4-Ancestors Oracle

This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 35.01
2 Southwest_Asian 32.72
3 Atlantic_Med 19.24
4 Northwest_African 12.28


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Palestinian @ 14.239951
2 Jordanians @ 16.241976
3 Egyptans @ 17.293848
4 Samaritians @ 18.397758
5 Bedouin @ 18.874361
6 Syrians @ 18.905682
7 Morocco_Jews @ 19.216867
8 Lebanese @ 19.276802
9 Sephardic_Jews @ 21.016842
10 Druze @ 22.742828
11 Yemenese @ 24.190037
12 Cypriots @ 24.294785
13 Ashkenazi @ 25.331604
14 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 26.402124
15 Iraq_Jews @ 27.045330
16 Yemen_Jews @ 27.815935
17 Sicilian @ 27.939342
18 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 28.105759
19 Iranian_Jews @ 30.451429
20 Uzbekistan_Jews @ 31.727289

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Morocco_Jews +50% Yemen_Jews @ 8.572141


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriots +25% Moroccan +25% Saudis @ 7.479426


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
1 Algerian + Samaritians + Sephardic_Jews + Yemen_Jews @ 6.704845
2 Cypriots + Moroccan + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 6.793284
3 Algerian + Morocco_Jews + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 6.855524
4 Algerian + Cypriots + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.214803
5 Moroccan + Samaritians + Sephardic_Jews + Yemen_Jews @ 7.290415
6 Cypriots + Moroccan + Samaritians + Saudis @ 7.381565
7 Algerian + Ashkenazi + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.429540
8 Algerian + Samaritians + Sicilian + Yemen_Jews @ 7.463964
9 Cypriots + Cypriots + Moroccan + Saudis @ 7.479426
10 Algerian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.502554
11 Algerian + Cypriots + Cypriots + Saudis @ 7.564158
12 Cypriots + Moroccans + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.581792
13 Algerian + Ashkenazy_Jews + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.718690
14 Algerian + Cypriots + Samaritians + Saudis @ 7.723834
15 Moroccan + Samaritians + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.782432
16 Moroccan + Morocco_Jews + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.835918
17 Ashkenazi + Moroccan + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.873002
18 Moroccans + Samaritians + Sephardic_Jews + Yemen_Jews @ 7.893068
19 Moroccan + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians + Yemen_Jews @ 7.926881
20 Cypriots + Cypriots + Moroccans + Saudis @ 7.965985

Done.

Elapsed time 0.4200 seconds.

[Sikeliot]

HAHAH looks like Ancient Egyptians were somewhat related to Sicilians and Jews.

[Lucas]

Mummy JK2934.

gedmatch: M558272


K36 Eurogenes

Amerindian -
Arabian 25.34
Armenian 7.67
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 7.89
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 7.31
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 24.63
North_African 11.14
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 16.02



Admix4



Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Samaritan @ 4,862118
2 Egypt @ 5,70625
3 Sephardi_Jews @ 5,856262
4 Palestina @ 6,728861
5 Tunisia @ 6,747312
6 Malta @ 7,000783
7 Bedouin_ISR @ 7,1854
8 Levant @ 7,20648
9 Sicily_Agrigento @ 7,414331
10 Askhenazi @ 7,708526
11 Sicily_Messina @ 7,719597
12 IT_Calabria @ 7,771685
13 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 7,859668
14 Sicily_Palermo @ 7,887589
15 Jordan @ 7,952125
16 Algeria @ 8,049264
17 Sicily_Catania @ 8,064679
18 Sicily_Ragusa @ 8,100647
19 Sicily_Trapani @ 8,20352
20 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 8,597384
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 4,862118
2 Egypt+Samaritan @ 5,14358
3 Morocco+Samaritan @ 5,145731
4 Algeria+Samaritan @ 5,147473
5 Tunisia+Samaritan @ 5,315797
6 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,321673
7 Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 5,335311
8 Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan @ 5,439999
9 Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 5,476727
10 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,633176
11 Egypt+IT_Sardinia @ 5,636746
12 Bedouin_ISR+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,65995
13 Egypt+Egypt @ 5,70625
14 Samaritan+Malta @ 5,766277
15 Palestina+Samaritan @ 5,788467
16 Tunisia+Bedouin_ISR @ 5,813849
17 Egypt+Cyprus @ 5,822911
18 Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,824898
19 Tunisia+Egypt @ 5,826633
20 Sephardi_Jews+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,856262
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,677269
2 50% Samaritan +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,685525
3 50% Samaritan +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,686194
4 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 4,755966
5 50% Samaritan +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,763263
6 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,79105
7 50% Samaritan +25% Yemen_North +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,798104
8 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 4,800263
9 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,822055
10 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,834159
11 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,835662
12 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,849463
13 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,864693
14 50% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,871958
15 50% Egypt +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,876505
16 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Samaritan @ 4,937727
17 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,946942
18 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Saudi @ 4,949382
19 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,951394


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bedouin_ISR @ 22,063903
2 Palestina @ 25,524996
3 Samaritan @ 25,593697
4 Jordan @ 25,816927
5 Egypt @ 27,051776
6 Sephardi_Jews @ 27,299826
7 Levant @ 27,720095
8 Yemen_North @ 30,013924
9 Iraqi_Jews @ 31,922039
10 Askhenazi @ 32,203939
11 Sicily_Agrigento @ 32,558477
12 Saudi @ 32,85862
13 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 32,976406
14 Sicily_Messina @ 33,310237
15 Malta @ 33,358272
16 Cyprus @ 33,383225
17 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 33,443293
18 Tunisia @ 33,620509
19 Hadramut_Yemen @ 33,628324
20 Azeri_Jews @ 33,658893
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Tunisia+Saudi @ 19,675175
2 Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 19,696622
3 Saudi+Sicily_Agrigento @ 19,831342
4 Saudi+Sicily_Messina @ 19,919308
5 Saudi+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 20,066817
6 Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 20,152706
7 Bedouin_ISR+Sephardi_Jews @ 20,185491
8 Saudi+Sicily_Palermo @ 20,22237
9 Saudi+IT_Calabria @ 20,305616
10 Saudi+Sicily_Trapani @ 20,328046
11 Saudi+Sicily_Ragusa @ 20,384796
12 Saudi+Malta @ 20,443745
13 Saudi+GR_Kythera @ 20,566068
14 Algeria+Saudi @ 20,60174
15 Saudi+Sicily_Catania @ 20,760649
16 Yemen_North+Sephardi_Jews @ 20,765547
17 Saudi+Gr_Eubea @ 20,794168
18 Saudi+Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 20,801239
19 Saudi+Askhenazi @ 20,890643
20 Yemen_North+Sicily_Agrigento @ 20,989972
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Saudi +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,486794
2 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,608058
3 50% Saudi +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,659999
4 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,685137
5 50% Saudi +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,712203
6 50% Saudi +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,714872
7 50% Saudi +25% Tunisia +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,98082
8 50% Saudi +25% Levant +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,006622
9 50% Saudi +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,072107
10 50% Saudi +25% Jordan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,206803
11 50% Saudi +25% Sephardi_Jews +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,242967
12 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,323645
13 50% Saudi +25% Azeri_Jews +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,365663
14 50% Saudi +25% Iraqi_Jews +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,442341
15 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Yemen_North +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,45408
16 50% Saudi +25% Azeri_Igdir +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,525773
17 50% Saudi +25% Assyrian +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,625119
18 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,708109
19 50% Samaritan +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,711884
20 50% Yemen_North +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,747935
17220368 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 16,254657
2 Bedouin_ISR+Palestina+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,373073
3 Palestina+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,486794
4 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,608058
5 Saudi+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 16,659999
6 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 16,685137
7 Morocco+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,712203
8 Algeria+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,714872
9 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,799912
10 Bedouin_ISR+Levant+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,856446
11 Saudi+Yemen_North+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 16,942227
12 Tunisia+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,98082
13 Levant+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,006622
14 Palestina+Saudi+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,014166
15 Egypt+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,072107
16 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Jordan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,103411
17 Saudi+Hadramut_Yemen+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,195813
18 Algeria+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,202202
19 Saudi+Saudi+Jordan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,206803
20 Saudi+Saudi+Sephardi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,242967
21 Bedouin_ISR+Yemen_North+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,273758
22 Egypt+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,290037
23 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,323645
24 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Iraqi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,332655
25 Morocco+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,359207
26 Saudi+Saudi+Azeri_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,365663
27 Algeria+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,389936
28 Morocco+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,42322
29 Saudi+Saudi+Iraqi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,442341
30 Levant+Saudi+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,451687
31 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,45408
32 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Sephardi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,464672
33 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Azeri_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,483627
34 Egypt+Palestina+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,514453
35 Saudi+Saudi+Azeri_Igdir+IT_Sardinia @ 17,525773
36 Palestina+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,554183
37 Tunisia+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,599388
38 Bedouin_ISR+Palestina+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,619032
39 Saudi+Saudi+Assyrian+IT_Sardinia @ 17,625119
40 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Assyrian+IT_Sardinia @ 17,690345
506600417 iterations.


https://s22.postimg.org/8p2whprs1/jk2911.jpg

[Lucas]

I re-examined JK2888 in Bam Analysis Tool. After uplaoding to Gedmatch 21444 SNPs used in this evaluation

Gedmatch: M832273

Components % are partly different but in variability range for this region. Also no South-Asian admxiture in K36.
21444 SNPs used in this evaluation
before about 15000

Amerindian -
Arabian 13.88
Armenian 0.39
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 20.46
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 6.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 27.52
North_African 12.82
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.78
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 14.33


https://s22.postimg.org/csyzzeg01/jk2888.jpg

Admix4

Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Egypt @ 4,907064
2 Sephardi_Jews @ 5,336773
3 Samaritan @ 5,342269
4 Algeria @ 5,856031
5 Tunisia @ 6,042719
6 Palestina @ 6,266935
7 Morocco @ 6,393577
8 Bedouin_ISR @ 6,810099
9 Malta @ 6,820614
10 Levant @ 6,902569
11 Sicily_Catania @ 7,386835
12 Jordan @ 7,409304
13 Sicily_Messina @ 7,412027
14 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 7,445422
15 Sicily_Palermo @ 7,452093
16 Askhenazi @ 7,61263
17 Sicily_Trapani @ 7,874425
18 Sicily_Ragusa @ 7,91453
19 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 8,037345
20 IT_Calabria @ 8,398938
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Morocco+Samaritan @ 4,514727
2 Algeria+Samaritan @ 4,527507
3 Egypt+Samaritan @ 4,605904
4 Tunisia+Samaritan @ 4,70064
5 Egypt+IT_Sardinia @ 4,802466
6 Egypt+Egypt @ 4,907064
7 Morocco+Egypt @ 4,927187
8 Algeria+Egypt @ 4,928075
9 Tunisia+Egypt @ 5,041619
10 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,044601
11 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,072185
12 Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 5,225688
13 Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan @ 5,251938
14 Egypt+Cyprus @ 5,257183
15 Algeria+Cyprus @ 5,265135
16 Morocco+Levant @ 5,302067
17 Morocco+Cyprus @ 5,320951
18 Sephardi_Jews+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,336773
19 Algeria+Levant @ 5,339718
20 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 5,342269
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,171971
2 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 4,175061
3 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 4,255653
4 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,276227
5 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,285088
6 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,300514
7 50% Egypt +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,363167
8 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Egypt @ 4,376041
9 50% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,376896
10 50% Egypt +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,379828
11 50% Egypt +25% Yemen_North +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,414636
12 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Samaritan @ 4,422101
13 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,422697
14 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Egypt @ 4,436579
15 50% Egypt +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,44852
16 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,461962
17 50% Egypt +25% Tunisia +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,513326
18 50% Morocco +25% Samaritan +25% Samaritan @ 4,514727
19 50% Algeria +25% Samaritan +25% Samaritan @ 4,527507
20 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Algeria @ 4,


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Samaritan @ 18,031746
2 Egypt @ 18,115818
3 Palestina @ 18,220403
4 Levant @ 19,891915
5 Jordan @ 20,09245
6 Sephardi_Jews @ 21,540407
7 Bedouin_ISR @ 24,805273
8 Cyprus @ 25,321272
9 Iraqi_Jews @ 25,818346
10 Askhenazi @ 28,179415
11 Sicily_Messina @ 28,38335
12 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 28,509079
13 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 29,064235
14 Sicily_Agrigento @ 29,259619
15 Malta @ 29,379237
16 Assyrian @ 29,505519
17 Azeri_Jews @ 29,523382
18 Sicily_Ragusa @ 29,620723
19 GR_Crete @ 29,935456
20 GR_Ikaria @ 29,942587
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Egypt+Samaritan @ 15,696941
2 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 15,74216
3 Algeria+Samaritan @ 15,88781
4 Tunisia+Samaritan @ 16,328047
5 Egypt+Palestina @ 16,682488
6 Morocco+Samaritan @ 16,786366
7 Egypt+Levant @ 16,976988
8 Egypt+Cyprus @ 17,076208
9 Samaritan+Jordan @ 17,37582
10 Palestina+Samaritan @ 17,423164
11 Egypt+Sicily_Messina @ 17,426492
12 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 17,431617
13 Egypt+Jordan @ 17,724027
14 Egypt+Sicily_Agrigento @ 17,7641
15 Egypt+Malta @ 17,789563
16 Egypt+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 17,802039
17 Egypt+Sicily_Ragusa @ 17,899149
18 Algeria+Levant @ 17,909653
19 Egypt+Sicily_Catania @ 18,029681
20 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 18,031746
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Egypt @ 13,149514
2 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 13,18788
3 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Egypt @ 13,286779
4 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 13,523335
5 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 13,599866
6 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Palestina @ 13,763246
7 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Egypt @ 13,784989
8 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Levant @ 13,964886
9 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Palestina @ 14,017811
10 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,187574
11 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 14,214923
12 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Levant @ 14,294518
13 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,304148
14 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Jordan @ 14,30561
15 50% Egypt +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,381618
16 50% Egypt +25% Levant +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,430723
17 50% Egypt +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 14,431054
18 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 14,451042
19 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Samaritan @ 14,452236
20 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Jordan @ 14,480713
16194298 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Morocco+Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,149514
2 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,18788
3 Algeria+Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,286779
4 Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 13,523335
5 Algeria+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,599866
6 Morocco+Palestina+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,763246
7 Tunisia+Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,784989
8 Morocco+Levant+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,964886
9 Algeria+Palestina+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,017811
10 Morocco+Egypt+Levant+Samaritan @ 14,103468
11 Algeria+Egypt+Levant+Samaritan @ 14,170942
12 Egypt+Egypt+Egypt+IT_Sardinia @ 14,187574
13 Algeria+Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,193425
14 Morocco+Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,205234
15 Morocco+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,214923
16 Algeria+Levant+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,294518
17 Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 14,304148
18 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Jordan @ 14,30561
19 Egypt+Egypt+Palestina+IT_Sardinia @ 14,381618
20 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 14,424142
21 Egypt+Egypt+Levant+IT_Sardinia @ 14,430723
22 Algeria+Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan @ 14,431054
23 Algeria+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,451042
24 Tunisia+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,452236
25 Algeria+Samaritan+Samaritan+Jordan @ 14,480713
26 Morocco+Egypt+Samaritan+Cyprus @ 14,493459
27 Algeria+Egypt+Samaritan+Cyprus @ 14,51979
28 Tunisia+Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan @ 14,536829
29 Morocco+Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan @ 14,561386
30 Tunisia+Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,615045
31 Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 14,669247
32 Tunisia+Egypt+Levant+Samaritan @ 14,692764
33 Morocco+Palestina+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,74558
34 Morocco+Levant+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,777952
35 Tunisia+Palestina+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,800965
36 Egypt+Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 14,802583
37 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Cyprus @ 14,814722
38 Tunisia+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,849468
39 Algeria+Palestina+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,850592
40 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 14,853247
471441340 iterations.

[Dick]

Look at all the Nordic countries 0,1,2 and a rare 3 as if we needed proof that the nutjob nodicists who post "Ancient Egyptians wiz Nordicks, Ancient Romans and Greeks wha Nordicks too" are pulling it out of their ass.

Calm your coglioni, paisan. Ancient Egyptians were obviously white.

[Lucas]

Calm your coglioni, paisan. Ancient Egyptians were obviously white.

Everybody can convert and check yourself:)

http://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB15464

[Lucas]

Calm your coglioni, paisan. Ancient Egyptians were obviously white.

They were rather partly:)

http://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2016/03/enhanced-17159-1423068265-32.jpg

We see from oracles...

[Dick]

They were rather partly:)

http://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2016/03/enhanced-17159-1423068265-32.jpg

We se from oracles...

So Jews built the pyramids, not I2a Bosniaks.

[Lucas]

Also not Euro Pharaos

http://www.aster-bal.com.pl/image/cache/data/Nakrycia_Glowy/CC%20187%20CZAPKA%20FARAON%202-800x600.jpg

[Peterski]

So that gladiator from York was probably Egyptian, as his results are very similar to these Egyptians.

That gladiator is intermediate between modern Copts and modern Samaritans, which was confusing.

But now it turns out, that ancient Egyptians were also intermediate between Copts and Samaritans.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think it would look like a cross between a Jew and an Arab. A caucasoid type, not negroid.

[Wadaad]

I think it would look like a cross between a Jew and an Arab. A caucasoid type, not negroid.

So Ancient Egyptians migrated to the nile valley from the levant...good to know one measly unsubstantiated study can completely reverse all documented history, aswell as Egyptian and Levantine chronicles. Maybe America is Black in a 1000 years because they conduct genetic studies on Harlem cemeteries :)

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

So Ancient Egyptians migrated to the nile valley from the levant...good to know one measly unsubstantiated study can completely reverse all documented history, aswell as Egyptian and Levantine chronicles. Maybe America is Black in a 1000 years because they conduct genetic studies on Harlem cemeteries :)

There is no historical evidence that negroid people could pull out anything worth mentioning throughout the history of the African continent, so it is not surprising that they most likely had nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptian civilization. This seemed obvious and this samples so far seem to support it. Maybe they had negroid people as slaves, we can't exclude that hypothesis. Maybe negroid Somali slaves built the piramids to the Caucasoid ruling elite. Bodies of Egyptian slaves are probably not as easy to find, so we have to wait.

[Wadaad]

There is no historical evidence that negroid people could pull out anything worth mentioning throughout the history of the African continent, so it is not surprising that they most likely had nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptian civilization. This seemed obvious and this samples so far seem to support it. Maybe they had negroid people as slaves, we can't exclude that hypothesis. Maybe negroid Somali slaves built the piramids to the Caucasoid ruling elite. Bodies of Egyptian slaves are probably not as easy to find, so we have to wait.

Again looking at Ethiopia alone you can find enough archaeolical wonders to refute your ignorant, uneducated views. The only places a clear elite-slave relationship constantly pops up is Europe, where Normans ruled Sicily, but sicilians never ruled Normandy, except for the Roman empire which itself was dismantled by Nordic elite mercenaries who were proto-Blackwater hired goons, which your rulers entrusted security and warring over your ancestors, which they preferred to have them pick olives, crush grapes, or work as galley slaves in their ships.

Were Nordic Vandals conquered and traveled to far away Iberia, but darkie Lusitanians never ruled or even travelled outside Iberia...the Lusitanian did not even colonize Africa inspite of all the attractive land in the Atlas mountains, but Moorish people liberated the native Iberians from the Nordic yoke/enslavement.

So little portughee...I will not take contemptuous delusions from you.

[Peterski]

So that gladiator from York was probably Egyptian, as his results are very similar to these Egyptians.

That gladiator is intermediate between modern Copts and modern Samaritans, which was confusing.

But now it turns out, that ancient Egyptians were also intermediate between Copts and Samaritans.

Non-genetic evidence also suggests that he was from Egypt:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10326

https://www.nature.com/article-assets/npg/ncomms/2016/160119/ncomms10326/extref/ncomms10326-s1.pdf

http://i.imgur.com/akVvBVZ.png
http://i.imgur.com/QGDfKiv.png
http://i.imgur.com/YPymfzp.png
http://i.imgur.com/gfaSpB1.png

[RN97]

So Ancient Egyptians migrated to the nile valley from the levant...good to know one measly unsubstantiated study can completely reverse all documented history, aswell as Egyptian and Levantine chronicles. Maybe America is Black in a 1000 years because they conduct genetic studies on Harlem cemeteries :)

We actually have Egyptian depiction dummy, what more do you want?
U wuz dick cleaners n' sheeit!
http://i.imgur.com/M1HP8q5.jpg

[Egyptian]

There is no historical evidence that negroid people could pull out anything worth mentioning throughout the history of the African continent, so it is not surprising that they most likely had nothing to do with the Ancient Egyptian civilization. This seemed obvious and this samples so far seem to support it. Maybe they had negroid people as slaves, we can't exclude that hypothesis. Maybe negroid Somali slaves built the piramids to the Caucasoid ruling elite. Bodies of Egyptian slaves are probably not as easy to find, so we have to wait.

check the nubian sudanese pyramids .. Nubians had a huge influence in the Egyptian history.

it's really funny , europeans trying so hard to remove the nubian or sudanese black history from Egypt and trying HARD to prove all our buildings were built by aliens sometimes or jews sometimes or godzilla or wtf.

losers , chill .. yeah Egypt had a better civilization than all of europe in a period of time just accept the fact and live with it.

[Wadaad]

We actually have Egyptian depiction dummy, what more do you want?
U wuz dick cleaners n' sheeit!
http://i.imgur.com/M1HP8q5.jpg

that is a modern depiction, you are the dummy if you think that eurocentric youtube shit is from Egypt proper...stop wasting your time on youtube videos

[Wadaad]

check the nubian sudanese pyramids .. Nubians had a huge influence in the Egyptian history.

it's really funny , europeans trying so hard to remove the nubian or sudanese black history from Egypt and trying HARD to prove all our buildings were built by aliens sometimes or jews sometimes or godzilla or wtf.

losers , chill .. yeah Egypt had a better civilization than all of europe in a period of time just accept the fact and live with it.

They have a constant yearning to place themselves on the top, I think the obvious fact that they are morgaging away all their accomplishments since 1500 ad, for a cheap price is making them very unsettled.

[Egyptian]

They have a constant yearning to place themselves on the top, I think the obvious fact that they are morgaging away all their accomplishments since 1500 ad, for a cheap price is making them very unsettled.

I don't know wtf wrong with them .. they are full of hatred (not all but a lot of them).

they aren't at top at all , their accomplishment since ww1 till now doesn't justify them to be on top .. Egypt or Persia or Iraq or Assyria had accomplishment that lasted for hundreds or thousands of years .. they can be on top under one condition ( if there wasn't any developed civilization before them and they were the first but they aren't).

[Peterski]

Leading civilizations in Eurasia according to A. Van Sloan & James Sheehan:

http://www.sq.4mg.com/AppA.htm#z

http://www.sq.4mg.com/AppC.htm#z

Period (number of years) - civilization

4300-2700 BC (1600) - Sumerians
2700-1075 BC (1625) - Egyptians
1075-745 (330) - Phoenicians
745-612 (133) - Assyrians
612-539 (73) - Babylonians
539-478 (61) - Persians
478-323 (155) - Greeks
323-197 (126) - Hellenistic
197 BC - 378 AD (575) - Romans
378-467 (85) - Gupta Indians
467-589 (122) - Byzantines
589-756 (167) - Tang Chinese
756-976 (236) - Islamic world
976-1071 (126) - Byzantines
1071-1294 (223) - Song & Mongol China
1294-1527 (233) - Renaissance Italy
1527-1588 (61) - Spain
1588-1609 (21) - England
1609-1672 (63) - the Netherlands
1672-1814 (142) - France
1814-1830 (16) - Austria
1830-1918 (88) - Great Britain
1918-today (99+) - the USA

[JMack]

I don't know why all this debate about that shit.

Everyone knows that the most probable is that ancient Egyptians were like Levantine Arabs/Druzes/Samaritans and Mizrahi Jews. These tests only confirm the obvious. lol

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The few things worth mentioning in Africa were made under Caucasoid guidance. Lol at the Ethiopian archeological sights or the Nubian pyramids built by negroid slaves under Caucasoid rule. DNA does not lie and so far those mummies found seem to suggest that these particular Ancient Egyptians were genetically closer to Jews/Arabs and even closer to Europeans than any negroid Somali.

[Wadaad]

I don't know why all this debate about that shit.

Everyone knows that the most probable is that ancient Egyptians were like Levantine Arabs/Druzes/Samaritans and Mizrahi Jews. These tests only confirm the obvious. lol

Then why did they depict people from that region differently...and why did they call them "Asiatics"? Did you forget this internet celebrity jpeg?

http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif

So I think you should revise/edit the first 6 words of your 2nd sentence.

[RN97]

that is a modern depiction, you are the dummy if you think that eurocentric youtube shit is from Egypt proper...stop wasting your time on youtube videos

I just googled ancient Egyptians. Show me the depictions of them that shows them as black. Not depictions of slaves, but of the Eygptians.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Then why did they depict people from that region differently...and why did they call them "Asiatics"? Did you forget this internet celebrity jpeg?

http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif

So I think you should revise/edit the first 6 words of your 2nd sentence.

"DNA does not prove shit, take instead this painting as a hundred times more reliable evidence of how Egyptians might have looked like"

[Wadaad]

I just googled ancient Egyptians. Show me the depictions of them that shows them as black. Not depictions of slaves, but of the Eygptians.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/1c/c0/1a1cc02059c09954318210012d1f88d3.jpg

before you scream 'SLAVE' thats King Tut's mom

[RN97]

Then why did they depict people from that region differently...and why did they call them "Asiatics"? Did you forget this internet celebrity jpeg?

http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif

So I think you should revise/edit the first 6 words of your 2nd sentence.

Cheeky lighting there fam :)
http://i.imgur.com/uJyVJp0.png

[Wadaad]

"DNA does not prove shit, take instead this painting as a hundred times more reliable evidence of how Egyptians might have looked like"

Yes, dna does not prove shit unless they do a thorough genetic study...this is not some inbred Amazonian tribe, but a crossroad of 3 continents and a center of civilization for 3 millenia

[Egyptian]

Frank you homo , stop with your rep comments.

[Wadaad]

Cheeky lighting there fam :)
http://i.imgur.com/uJyVJp0.png

You are grasping straws...typical Eurocentrist. Does your brightened pic show anything different? Does the Egyptian resemble the Canaanite?

[Peterski]

Yes, dna does not prove shit unless they do a thorough genetic study...this is not some inbred Amazonian tribe, but a crossroad of 3 continents and a center of civilization for 3 millenia

I agree that there could be people with different genetic backgrounds living next to each other.

[Bell Beaker]

Ancient Egypt society was probably similar to India in reguards to race/ethnic backgrounds. There were high and low castes.


Maybe some dinasties were more tolerant with minorities.

[Bell Beaker]

Cheeky lighting there fam :)
http://i.imgur.com/uJyVJp0.png

The tatoos of the White guy from left are quite cool.....

[frankhammer]

Frank you homo , stop with your rep comments.

NO, You're a naughty boy and need to stop with the racial and religious diarrhoea in every thread. TIA

[RN97]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/1c/c0/1a1cc02059c09954318210012d1f88d3.jpg

before you scream 'SLAVE' thats King Tut's mom

Looks caucasoid and wood does that m8. Originally it wasn't that dark. They did have some SSA admixture so it's not such a weird look
Imagine her with lighter skin, looks like:
http://i.imgur.com/T02AXu3.jpg

[Wadaad]

Looks caucasoid and wood does that m8. Originally it wasn't that dark. They did have some SSA admixture so it's not such a weird look
Imagine her with lighter skin, looks like:
http://i.imgur.com/T02AXu3.jpg

bahahaha...ok, to me she reminds me of Michelle Obama, and Tut himself looked like Malia Obama

http://i1.wp.com/revelationnow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Malia_Obama.jpg?resize=640%2C300

[JMack]

Then why did they depict people from that region differently...and why did they call them "Asiatics"? Did you forget this internet celebrity jpeg?

http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif

So I think you should revise/edit the first 6 words of your 2nd sentence.

What they considered about themselves is not the last word in any discussion. The ones prepared to tell the history of ancient Egyptians are modern scientists/historians.

It's like using Herodotus as an authority for the history of Ancient Greece*. lol

*Obviously Herodotus should be used, but as SOURCE not as scientific authority.

[RN97]

You are grasping straws...typical Eurocentrist. Does your brightened pic show anything different? Does the Egyptian resemble the Canaanite?

So the Egyptians of today are white or what are you trying to say? You're proving nothing. Look at how minoas depicted themselves:
http://i.imgur.com/SoMseQz.jpg

Euro-centric would be to claim them to be..... European, not middle eastern/ north African.

[Isleño]

HAHAH looks like Ancient Egyptians were somewhat related to Sicilians and Jews.
Well according to the Shuenemann et al.2017 study, Ancient Egyptians have 1/3 of their DNA they share with Europeans (Anatolian and the Gedrosia-like Neolithic Iran). But is we look at the results of that study, the results are just like Modern Egyptian, minus 8% SSA. So these gedmatch results are on the same page as the the Shuenemann et al. 2017 study. The closest modern day percentage match is Bedouins from Saudi Arabia.

[Wadaad]

So the Egyptians of today are white or what are you trying to say? You're proving nothing. Look at how minoas depicted themselves:
http://i.imgur.com/SoMseQz.jpg

Euro-centric would be to claim them to be..... European, not middle eastern/ north African.

Clearly mediterrenean people with roman noses, lacking alveolar prognathism or dolicocephalic heads and wavy-straight thick mediterrenean hair. Pretty accurate and how a Lebanese Cypriot or Cretan might look today.

The Egyptians depicted themselves with thick lips, big African eyes, many times prognathic and had curly/nappy hair that was plaited, shaved or replaced with Weaves/Wigs

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/1c/c0/1a1cc02059c09954318210012d1f88d3.jpg

before you scream 'SLAVE' thats King Tut's mom

A quick Google search: "King Tut mother’s tomb is believed to have been discovered in the Valley of the Kings; however, no mummy was actually located. The tomb is next to King Tut’s burial site but remains shrouded with mystery due to the absence of an actual body. The tomb is known as KV63 and was found as a cache filled with coffins and storage jars. Many of the coffins yielded nothing except the sixth one which contained six pillows. These pillows remain a mystery as well, but it is thought these pillows could have been important items belonging to the queen during her lifetime and could have been used as bedding while her body went through the mummification process. Of course this is all still speculation; however, if this embalming storage was in fact King Tut’s mother’s tomb, it would have been in conjunction with King Tut’s final wishes; that he be buried next to his mother."

:picard1:

"She was his mother, 100% sure bro!"

She could as well just be a Somali slave buried next to the King. It's know that Egyptian nobility used to be buried with their servants next to them in order for them to keep looking for them on the afterlife. Not even after death Somali slaves were free from their serventy, lol.

Also there are other supposedly sculptures of Tut mom who depict her completely different and way lighter.

[RN97]

bahahaha...ok, to me she reminds me of Michelle Obama, and Tut himself looked like Malia Obama

http://i1.wp.com/revelationnow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Malia_Obama.jpg?resize=640%2C300

They look caucasian and were depicted as brown=
1. Mixed negroid/ caucasoids with caucasian features
2. mostly caucasoids that were brown

You chose nr. 1. pls tell me why. Seems agenda driven. It's like if I claimed that turkic people were originally European because of chinky looking Europeans.

[Isleño]

Looks caucasoid and wood does that m8. Originally it wasn't that dark. They did have some SSA admixture so it's not such a weird look
Imagine her with lighter skin, looks like:
http://i.imgur.com/T02AXu3.jpg
This is a wooden bust King Tut's mother, Thuya:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/1c/c0/1a1cc02059c09954318210012d1f88d3.jpg

But this is Thuya's mummy, big difference in appearance:

https://i0.wp.com/marchofthetitans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/elderlady-pics-1.jpg?w=482

[Isleño]

So the Egyptians of today are white or what are you trying to say? You're proving nothing. Look at how minoas depicted themselves:
http://i.imgur.com/SoMseQz.jpg

Euro-centric would be to claim them to be..... European, not middle eastern/ north African.According to the Shuenemann et al. 2017 study, the Ancient Egyptian results clustered with Bedouins and their DNA percentages were closer to modern Bedouins of the Arabian peninsula. See how dark they are:

https://eappiblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/1-2-16-suleiman-s-resident-of-ein-ar-rashash-bedouin-community-facing-imminent-demolition-eappia-dunne.jpg?w=584&h=389
http://joshuaproject.net/assets/media/profiles/photos/p10759_iz.jpg

And according to the same study, ancient Levantines had much less SSA than today, which means they would have looked more like this Syrian:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Bashar_al-Assad_in_Russia_%282015-10-21%29_08.jpg

Which would explain what we are seeing here:

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/race1.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Mummy JK2911. EDIT: After upload 13473 SNPs used in this evaluation, before 3933

gedmatch: M558272


K36 Eurogenes

Amerindian -
Arabian 25.34
Armenian 7.67
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 7.89
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 7.31
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 24.63
North_African 11.14
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 16.02



Admix4



Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Samaritan @ 4,862118
2 Egypt @ 5,70625
3 Sephardi_Jews @ 5,856262
4 Palestina @ 6,728861
5 Tunisia @ 6,747312
6 Malta @ 7,000783
7 Bedouin_ISR @ 7,1854
8 Levant @ 7,20648
9 Sicily_Agrigento @ 7,414331
10 Askhenazi @ 7,708526
11 Sicily_Messina @ 7,719597
12 IT_Calabria @ 7,771685
13 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 7,859668
14 Sicily_Palermo @ 7,887589
15 Jordan @ 7,952125
16 Algeria @ 8,049264
17 Sicily_Catania @ 8,064679
18 Sicily_Ragusa @ 8,100647
19 Sicily_Trapani @ 8,20352
20 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 8,597384
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 4,862118
2 Egypt+Samaritan @ 5,14358
3 Morocco+Samaritan @ 5,145731
4 Algeria+Samaritan @ 5,147473
5 Tunisia+Samaritan @ 5,315797
6 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,321673
7 Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 5,335311
8 Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan @ 5,439999
9 Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 5,476727
10 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,633176
11 Egypt+IT_Sardinia @ 5,636746
12 Bedouin_ISR+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,65995
13 Egypt+Egypt @ 5,70625
14 Samaritan+Malta @ 5,766277
15 Palestina+Samaritan @ 5,788467
16 Tunisia+Bedouin_ISR @ 5,813849
17 Egypt+Cyprus @ 5,822911
18 Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,824898
19 Tunisia+Egypt @ 5,826633
20 Sephardi_Jews+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,856262
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,677269
2 50% Samaritan +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,685525
3 50% Samaritan +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,686194
4 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 4,755966
5 50% Samaritan +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,763263
6 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,79105
7 50% Samaritan +25% Yemen_North +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,798104
8 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 4,800263
9 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,822055
10 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,834159
11 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,835662
12 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,849463
13 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,864693
14 50% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,871958
15 50% Egypt +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,876505
16 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Samaritan @ 4,937727
17 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,946942
18 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Saudi @ 4,949382
19 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,951394


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bedouin_ISR @ 22,063903
2 Palestina @ 25,524996
3 Samaritan @ 25,593697
4 Jordan @ 25,816927
5 Egypt @ 27,051776
6 Sephardi_Jews @ 27,299826
7 Levant @ 27,720095
8 Yemen_North @ 30,013924
9 Iraqi_Jews @ 31,922039
10 Askhenazi @ 32,203939
11 Sicily_Agrigento @ 32,558477
12 Saudi @ 32,85862
13 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 32,976406
14 Sicily_Messina @ 33,310237
15 Malta @ 33,358272
16 Cyprus @ 33,383225
17 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 33,443293
18 Tunisia @ 33,620509
19 Hadramut_Yemen @ 33,628324
20 Azeri_Jews @ 33,658893
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Tunisia+Saudi @ 19,675175
2 Saudi+Sephardi_Jews @ 19,696622
3 Saudi+Sicily_Agrigento @ 19,831342
4 Saudi+Sicily_Messina @ 19,919308
5 Saudi+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 20,066817
6 Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 20,152706
7 Bedouin_ISR+Sephardi_Jews @ 20,185491
8 Saudi+Sicily_Palermo @ 20,22237
9 Saudi+IT_Calabria @ 20,305616
10 Saudi+Sicily_Trapani @ 20,328046
11 Saudi+Sicily_Ragusa @ 20,384796
12 Saudi+Malta @ 20,443745
13 Saudi+GR_Kythera @ 20,566068
14 Algeria+Saudi @ 20,60174
15 Saudi+Sicily_Catania @ 20,760649
16 Yemen_North+Sephardi_Jews @ 20,765547
17 Saudi+Gr_Eubea @ 20,794168
18 Saudi+Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 20,801239
19 Saudi+Askhenazi @ 20,890643
20 Yemen_North+Sicily_Agrigento @ 20,989972
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Saudi +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,486794
2 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,608058
3 50% Saudi +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,659999
4 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,685137
5 50% Saudi +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,712203
6 50% Saudi +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,714872
7 50% Saudi +25% Tunisia +25% IT_Sardinia @ 16,98082
8 50% Saudi +25% Levant +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,006622
9 50% Saudi +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,072107
10 50% Saudi +25% Jordan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,206803
11 50% Saudi +25% Sephardi_Jews +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,242967
12 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,323645
13 50% Saudi +25% Azeri_Jews +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,365663
14 50% Saudi +25% Iraqi_Jews +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,442341
15 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Yemen_North +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,45408
16 50% Saudi +25% Azeri_Igdir +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,525773
17 50% Saudi +25% Assyrian +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,625119
18 50% Bedouin_ISR +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,708109
19 50% Samaritan +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,711884
20 50% Yemen_North +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 17,747935
17220368 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 16,254657
2 Bedouin_ISR+Palestina+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,373073
3 Palestina+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,486794
4 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,608058
5 Saudi+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 16,659999
6 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 16,685137
7 Morocco+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,712203
8 Algeria+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,714872
9 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,799912
10 Bedouin_ISR+Levant+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,856446
11 Saudi+Yemen_North+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 16,942227
12 Tunisia+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 16,98082
13 Levant+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,006622
14 Palestina+Saudi+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,014166
15 Egypt+Saudi+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,072107
16 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Jordan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,103411
17 Saudi+Hadramut_Yemen+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,195813
18 Algeria+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,202202
19 Saudi+Saudi+Jordan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,206803
20 Saudi+Saudi+Sephardi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,242967
21 Bedouin_ISR+Yemen_North+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,273758
22 Egypt+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,290037
23 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,323645
24 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Iraqi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,332655
25 Morocco+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,359207
26 Saudi+Saudi+Azeri_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,365663
27 Algeria+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,389936
28 Morocco+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,42322
29 Saudi+Saudi+Iraqi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,442341
30 Levant+Saudi+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,451687
31 Bedouin_ISR+Bedouin_ISR+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,45408
32 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Sephardi_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,464672
33 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Azeri_Jews+IT_Sardinia @ 17,483627
34 Egypt+Palestina+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,514453
35 Saudi+Saudi+Azeri_Igdir+IT_Sardinia @ 17,525773
36 Palestina+Saudi+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 17,554183
37 Tunisia+Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+IT_Sardinia @ 17,599388
38 Bedouin_ISR+Palestina+Yemen_North+IT_Sardinia @ 17,619032
39 Saudi+Saudi+Assyrian+IT_Sardinia @ 17,625119
40 Bedouin_ISR+Saudi+Assyrian+IT_Sardinia @ 17,690345
506600417 iterations.


https://s22.postimg.org/8p2whprs1/jk2911.jpg

Why are they so close to Sicilians and Ashkenazim?? This is incredible. I am proud :)

[Sikeliot]

I re-examined JK2888 in Bam Analysis Tool. After uplaoding to Gedmatch 21444 SNPs used in this evaluation


Gedmatch: M832273

Components % are partly different but in variability range for this region. Also no South-Asian admxiture in K36.
21444 SNPs used in this evaluation
before about 15000

Amerindian -
Arabian 13.88
Armenian 0.39
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 20.46
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 6.81
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 27.52
North_African 12.82
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.78
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 14.33


https://s22.postimg.org/csyzzeg01/jk2888.jpg

Admix4

Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Egypt @ 4,907064
2 Sephardi_Jews @ 5,336773
3 Samaritan @ 5,342269
4 Algeria @ 5,856031
5 Tunisia @ 6,042719
6 Palestina @ 6,266935
7 Morocco @ 6,393577
8 Bedouin_ISR @ 6,810099
9 Malta @ 6,820614
10 Levant @ 6,902569
11 Sicily_Catania @ 7,386835
12 Jordan @ 7,409304
13 Sicily_Messina @ 7,412027
14 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 7,445422
15 Sicily_Palermo @ 7,452093
16 Askhenazi @ 7,61263
17 Sicily_Trapani @ 7,874425
18 Sicily_Ragusa @ 7,91453
19 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 8,037345
20 IT_Calabria @ 8,398938
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Morocco+Samaritan @ 4,514727
2 Algeria+Samaritan @ 4,527507
3 Egypt+Samaritan @ 4,605904
4 Tunisia+Samaritan @ 4,70064
5 Egypt+IT_Sardinia @ 4,802466
6 Egypt+Egypt @ 4,907064
7 Morocco+Egypt @ 4,927187
8 Algeria+Egypt @ 4,928075
9 Tunisia+Egypt @ 5,041619
10 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,044601
11 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,072185
12 Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 5,225688
13 Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan @ 5,251938
14 Egypt+Cyprus @ 5,257183
15 Algeria+Cyprus @ 5,265135
16 Morocco+Levant @ 5,302067
17 Morocco+Cyprus @ 5,320951
18 Sephardi_Jews+Sephardi_Jews @ 5,336773
19 Algeria+Levant @ 5,339718
20 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 5,342269
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,171971
2 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 4,175061
3 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 4,255653
4 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,276227
5 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,285088
6 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,300514
7 50% Egypt +25% Algeria +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,363167
8 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Egypt @ 4,376041
9 50% Egypt +25% Bedouin_ISR +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,376896
10 50% Egypt +25% Morocco +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,379828
11 50% Egypt +25% Yemen_North +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,414636
12 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Samaritan @ 4,422101
13 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,422697
14 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Egypt @ 4,436579
15 50% Egypt +25% Saudi +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,44852
16 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,461962
17 50% Egypt +25% Tunisia +25% IT_Sardinia @ 4,513326
18 50% Morocco +25% Samaritan +25% Samaritan @ 4,514727
19 50% Algeria +25% Samaritan +25% Samaritan @ 4,527507
20 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Algeria @ 4,


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Samaritan @ 18,031746
2 Egypt @ 18,115818
3 Palestina @ 18,220403
4 Levant @ 19,891915
5 Jordan @ 20,09245
6 Sephardi_Jews @ 21,540407
7 Bedouin_ISR @ 24,805273
8 Cyprus @ 25,321272
9 Iraqi_Jews @ 25,818346
10 Askhenazi @ 28,179415
11 Sicily_Messina @ 28,38335
12 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 28,509079
13 Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 29,064235
14 Sicily_Agrigento @ 29,259619
15 Malta @ 29,379237
16 Assyrian @ 29,505519
17 Azeri_Jews @ 29,523382
18 Sicily_Ragusa @ 29,620723
19 GR_Crete @ 29,935456
20 GR_Ikaria @ 29,942587
335 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Egypt+Samaritan @ 15,696941
2 Egypt+Sephardi_Jews @ 15,74216
3 Algeria+Samaritan @ 15,88781
4 Tunisia+Samaritan @ 16,328047
5 Egypt+Palestina @ 16,682488
6 Morocco+Samaritan @ 16,786366
7 Egypt+Levant @ 16,976988
8 Egypt+Cyprus @ 17,076208
9 Samaritan+Jordan @ 17,37582
10 Palestina+Samaritan @ 17,423164
11 Egypt+Sicily_Messina @ 17,426492
12 Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 17,431617
13 Egypt+Jordan @ 17,724027
14 Egypt+Sicily_Agrigento @ 17,7641
15 Egypt+Malta @ 17,789563
16 Egypt+Sicily_Caltanisetta @ 17,802039
17 Egypt+Sicily_Ragusa @ 17,899149
18 Algeria+Levant @ 17,909653
19 Egypt+Sicily_Catania @ 18,029681
20 Samaritan+Samaritan @ 18,031746
56280 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Egypt @ 13,149514
2 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Samaritan @ 13,18788
3 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Egypt @ 13,286779
4 50% Egypt +25% Samaritan +25% IT_Sardinia @ 13,523335
5 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 13,599866
6 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Palestina @ 13,763246
7 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Egypt @ 13,784989
8 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Levant @ 13,964886
9 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Palestina @ 14,017811
10 50% Egypt +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,187574
11 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 14,214923
12 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Levant @ 14,294518
13 50% Samaritan +25% Egypt +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,304148
14 50% Samaritan +25% Morocco +25% Jordan @ 14,30561
15 50% Egypt +25% Palestina +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,381618
16 50% Egypt +25% Levant +25% IT_Sardinia @ 14,430723
17 50% Egypt +25% Algeria +25% Samaritan @ 14,431054
18 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Bedouin_ISR @ 14,451042
19 50% Samaritan +25% Tunisia +25% Samaritan @ 14,452236
20 50% Samaritan +25% Algeria +25% Jordan @ 14,480713
16194298 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Morocco+Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,149514
2 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,18788
3 Algeria+Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,286779
4 Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 13,523335
5 Algeria+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,599866
6 Morocco+Palestina+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,763246
7 Tunisia+Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,784989
8 Morocco+Levant+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 13,964886
9 Algeria+Palestina+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,017811
10 Morocco+Egypt+Levant+Samaritan @ 14,103468
11 Algeria+Egypt+Levant+Samaritan @ 14,170942
12 Egypt+Egypt+Egypt+IT_Sardinia @ 14,187574
13 Algeria+Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,193425
14 Morocco+Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,205234
15 Morocco+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,214923
16 Algeria+Levant+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,294518
17 Egypt+Samaritan+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 14,304148
18 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Jordan @ 14,30561
19 Egypt+Egypt+Palestina+IT_Sardinia @ 14,381618
20 Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 14,424142
21 Egypt+Egypt+Levant+IT_Sardinia @ 14,430723
22 Algeria+Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan @ 14,431054
23 Algeria+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,451042
24 Tunisia+Samaritan+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,452236
25 Algeria+Samaritan+Samaritan+Jordan @ 14,480713
26 Morocco+Egypt+Samaritan+Cyprus @ 14,493459
27 Algeria+Egypt+Samaritan+Cyprus @ 14,51979
28 Tunisia+Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan @ 14,536829
29 Morocco+Egypt+Egypt+Samaritan @ 14,561386
30 Tunisia+Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,615045
31 Egypt+Palestina+Samaritan+IT_Sardinia @ 14,669247
32 Tunisia+Egypt+Levant+Samaritan @ 14,692764
33 Morocco+Palestina+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,74558
34 Morocco+Levant+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,777952
35 Tunisia+Palestina+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,800965
36 Egypt+Egypt+Bedouin_ISR+IT_Sardinia @ 14,802583
37 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Cyprus @ 14,814722
38 Tunisia+Bedouin_ISR+Samaritan+Samaritan @ 14,849468
39 Algeria+Palestina+Palestina+Samaritan @ 14,850592
40 Morocco+Samaritan+Samaritan+Sephardi_Jews @ 14,853247
471441340 iterations.



Same here. My guess is one of the native populations of the region must have had some links to North Africa and Egypt.. maybe Sicanians.

[RN97]

Why are they so close to Sicilians and Ashkenazim?? This is incredible. I am proud :)

Hol' up!

[Isleño]

Old kingdom Egyptian statues

Prince Hemiunu

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/3853381401_407e129f81.jpg

High priest Ranofer

https://www.oneonta.edu/faculty/farberas/arth/images/109images/egyptian/ranofer_head.jpg

Pharoah Khafre

https://www.almendron.com/artehistoria/wp-content/uploads/egipto-fig-28.jpg

Prince Rahotep and Princess Nofret

https://ka-perseus-images.s3.amazonaws.com/d5afd37748fff7ca45853aa527e93207e4105fe7.jpg

The seated scribe

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/37/b0/0c/37b00c0b5439f5b46b86d51d6c4199c2.jpg

Pharaoh Menkaure and his queen Kha-Merer-Nebu II

http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-26-109.png

[The Illyrian Warrior]

bahahaha...ok, to me she reminds me of Michelle Obama, and Tut himself looked like Malia Obama

http://i1.wp.com/revelationnow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Malia_Obama.jpg?resize=640%2C300

xD

Just leave this shit going because you're starting to sound like a true afrotard.

[wvwvw]

Which would explain what we are seeing here:

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/race1.jpg

Libya was a Greek colony for 800 years and even before the foundation of Tripolis by the Greeks the land is recorded to have had a white European-Levantine population by the Egyptians. For example Septimus Severus was born to an Italian Roman mother and a Punic, ie. Phoenician father in Libya.

Northern Africa was never black at any time in recorded history. The population was European-Levantine since recorded history began and before recorded history Berber, and the Brebers where of white Arab appearance.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BY6X6X/portrait-of-a-berber-man-in-tozeur-tunisia-BY6X6X.jpg

[Lucas]

..............

[Peterski]

First look at ancient Egyptian mtDNA:

http://mtdnaatlas.blogspot.com/2017/06/first-look-at-ancient-egyptian-mtdna.html


Thanks to Schuenemann 2017 we finally have DNA from the ancient Egyptians. It sequenced three ancient Egyptian genomes and 90 ancient Egyptian mtDNA genomes. All of the samples come from Middle Egypt and range in age from about 1300 BC to 300 AD.

The genetic affinity of the ancient Egyptians doesn’t carry any surprises. They were native to the Middle East. With published ancient DNA we can trace their roots back 12,000 years to that region. But unlike other ancient Middle Eastern DNA, the ancient Egyptians also harbored a little bit of some sort of Sub Saharan African ancestry(5-10%).

I’ve taken a close look at the ancient Egyptian mtDNA results. So here’s a first glimpse into the mtDNA affinity of the ancient Egyptians…..

Like their genome-wide affinity the ancient Egyptian’s mtDNA is distinctively Near Eastern. Not just Middle Eastern but Near Eastern. Recall earlier this year I pointed out that modern Egyptian mtDNA shows affinity to the Near East not NorthWest Africa. They share most mtDNA first with modern Egyptians but then also Arabians and peoples in the Levant(Syria, Lebanon, etc). A mere 1%(1 sample) belonged to Sub Saharan African mHG L(xM, N). Modern Egypt though has a frequency of 20% frequency!

A handful of mHGs characterized ancient Egyptian mtDNA. 44% belonged to the following mHGs: R0a 7.8%, HV1 6.7%, J2a2 6.7%, T1a 14.4%, M1a 5.6%, I 4.4%.

Every single one of those mHGs is specific to the Near East-North Africa except for U6a and M1a which make a significant presence Iberia and many parts of Africa.

Today R0a, HV1, and J2a2 interesting all peak in Egypt. And the ancient Egyptians had as high of a frequency in those mHGs as you’ll find in any modern population. Their high frequency of J2a2(6.7%) is even more interesting considering it has been found in the Natufians. J2a2 seldom appears outside of the SouthWest Asia-North Africa. Last year I classified it Near Easter(See here). J in Europe is dominated by J1c while J1b-J1d dominates J in much of the Middle East.

R0a has a more international distribution than J2a2 and HV1. Like J2a2 it peaks in the Near East but it also surprisingly has a strong presence as far east as India. Several examples R0a have been found in Neolithic and Bronze age Jordan.

Saying the ancient Egyptians had a lot of T1a doesn’t say much considering T1a is equally popular in most of West Eurasia(from Ireland to Iran). The T1a clades the ancient Egyptians belonged to: T1a7, T1a2, T1a5, T1a8, all are Near Eastern-specific. None of them belonged to European-SC Asian T1a1. Most of my modern T1a7 samples are from Egypt. All of my Egyptian T1a7 samples belong to an unclassified T1a7 clade, it’ll be interesting to see if these ancient Egyptians belonged to that clade.

Here’s the most important differences between ancient Egyptian mtDNA and modern Egyptian+Near Eastern mtDNA: moderns have a lot more J1b, H, U3, and African L(xM, N).

[Kamal900]

So..they weren't "WE WAZ KANGS N SHIEET", lol. I've been saying this for many years now; the ancient Egyptians cluster the closest to their modern descendants and their neighbors in the southern Levant and Arabia.

[wvwvw]

First look at ancient Egyptian mtDNA:

http://mtdnaatlas.blogspot.com/2017/06/first-look-at-ancient-egyptian-mtdna.html

Hyksos king Epaphus I/Apopis I ruled in Egypt in about 1645 BC.

[Kamal900]

Hyksos king Epaphus I/Apopis I ruled in Egypt in about 1645 BC.

But the Hyksos didn't replaced the population of Egypt though, and the Egyptians cluster the closest to Arabians who are genetically predominately Natufian than to the today's genetic isolated groups of the Levant who are genetically more northern due to the admixture with the ancient Anatolians.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

This is a wooden bust King Tut's mother, Thuya:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1a/1c/c0/1a1cc02059c09954318210012d1f88d3.jpg

But this is Thuya's mummy, big difference in appearance:

https://i0.wp.com/marchofthetitans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/elderlady-pics-1.jpg?w=482

not really it looks kind of close. The nose is probably just hooked on the skull because when they removed the brains for the mummification process it probably made it like that. They used to hook out the brain from the nasal cavity / nose

The bust looks east african too.

[Kamal900]

not really it looks kind of close. The nose is probably just hooked on the skull because when they removed the brains for the mummification process it probably made it like that. They used to hook out the brain from the nasal cavity / nose

The bust looks east african too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUZP_BaZL94

[wvwvw]

But the Hyksos didn't replaced the population of Egypt though, and the Egyptians cluster the closest to Arabians who are genetically predominately Natufian than to the today's genetic isolated groups of the Levant who are genetically more northern due to the admixture with the ancient Anatolians.

Never implied that. Aren't those samples from Egyptian royalty/kings anyway

[Kamal900]

Never implied that. Aren't those samples from Egyptian royalty/kings anyway

No, they are mostly from the average Egyptian cemeteries from 3 three periods of Egypt, and all of them show that they cluster with Arabians, Palestinians, Jordanians, Samaritans and today's Egyptians than to other peoples.

[wvwvw]

I just googled ancient Egyptians. Show me the depictions of them that shows them as black. Not depictions of slaves, but of the Eygptians.

I have been to Cairo museum and many many statues look black african.

I would have never guessed Levantine, but who knows maybe they depicted them more African than they actually were.

[Pahli]

But the Hyksos didn't replaced the population of Egypt though, and the Egyptians cluster the closest to Arabians who are genetically predominately Natufian than to the today's genetic isolated groups of the Levant who are genetically more northern due to the admixture with the ancient Anatolians.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 59.9
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 17.85
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 17.28
4 Sub_Saharan 4.97

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Levant_BA 5.64
2 Saudi 6.86
3 Jew_Yemenite 7.16
4 Cypriot 7.74
5 Jew_Tunisian 8.05
6 Palestinian 8.81
7 Jew_Libyan 8.97
8 Druze 9.21
9 Lebanese 9.37
10 Jew_Moroccan 9.99
11 Jordanian 10.64
12 BedouinA 11.28
13 Syrian 11.97
14 Jew_Ashkenazi 14.31
15 Jew_iraqi 14.63
16 Jew_Iranian 14.99
17 Italian_South 15.26
18 Assyrian 15.61
19 Egyptian 15.78
20 Sicilian 16.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.8% Jew_Yemenite + 22.2% Anatolia_N @ 1.71
2 62.2% Levant_BA + 37.8% Jew_Libyan @ 1.79
3 81.6% Jew_Yemenite + 18.4% Europe_EN @ 1.91
4 65% Levant_BA + 35% Jew_Moroccan @ 2.02
5 59.7% Levant_BA + 40.3% Jew_Tunisian @ 2.09
6 79% Saudi + 21% Anatolia_N @ 2.2
7 85.4% Levant_BA + 14.6% Spanish @ 2.21
8 94.7% Levant_BA + 5.3% Motala12 @ 2.23
9 94.6% Levant_BA + 5.4% SHG @ 2.26
10 95.2% Levant_BA + 4.8% WHG @ 2.27
11 95.2% Levant_BA + 4.8% Hungarian_KO1 @ 2.27
12 87.8% Levant_BA + 12.2% English @ 2.3
13 86.9% Levant_BA + 13.1% French @ 2.31
14 88.8% Levant_BA + 11.2% Icelandic @ 2.31
15 75.9% Levant_BA + 24.1% Sicilian @ 2.31
16 89.7% Levant_BA + 10.3% Lithuanian @ 2.34
17 89% Levant_BA + 11% Europe_LNBA @ 2.35
18 87.8% Levant_BA + 12.2% Czech @ 2.36
19 73.4% Levant_BA + 26.6% Jew_Ashkenazi @ 2.37
20 88.4% Levant_BA + 11.6% Norwegian @ 2.38

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I have been to Cairo museum and many many statues look black african.

Statues are not accurate scientific proven fact as are remains, face reconstruction, and dna results which suggest they were nothing black alike.

[Kamal900]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 59.9
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 17.85
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 17.28
4 Sub_Saharan 4.97

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Levant_BA 5.64
2 Saudi 6.86
3 Jew_Yemenite 7.16
4 Cypriot 7.74
5 Jew_Tunisian 8.05
6 Palestinian 8.81
7 Jew_Libyan 8.97
8 Druze 9.21
9 Lebanese 9.37
10 Jew_Moroccan 9.99
11 Jordanian 10.64
12 BedouinA 11.28
13 Syrian 11.97
14 Jew_Ashkenazi 14.31
15 Jew_iraqi 14.63
16 Jew_Iranian 14.99
17 Italian_South 15.26
18 Assyrian 15.61
19 Egyptian 15.78
20 Sicilian 16.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.8% Jew_Yemenite + 22.2% Anatolia_N @ 1.71
2 62.2% Levant_BA + 37.8% Jew_Libyan @ 1.79
3 81.6% Jew_Yemenite + 18.4% Europe_EN @ 1.91
4 65% Levant_BA + 35% Jew_Moroccan @ 2.02
5 59.7% Levant_BA + 40.3% Jew_Tunisian @ 2.09
6 79% Saudi + 21% Anatolia_N @ 2.2
7 85.4% Levant_BA + 14.6% Spanish @ 2.21
8 94.7% Levant_BA + 5.3% Motala12 @ 2.23
9 94.6% Levant_BA + 5.4% SHG @ 2.26
10 95.2% Levant_BA + 4.8% WHG @ 2.27
11 95.2% Levant_BA + 4.8% Hungarian_KO1 @ 2.27
12 87.8% Levant_BA + 12.2% English @ 2.3
13 86.9% Levant_BA + 13.1% French @ 2.31
14 88.8% Levant_BA + 11.2% Icelandic @ 2.31
15 75.9% Levant_BA + 24.1% Sicilian @ 2.31
16 89.7% Levant_BA + 10.3% Lithuanian @ 2.34
17 89% Levant_BA + 11% Europe_LNBA @ 2.35
18 87.8% Levant_BA + 12.2% Czech @ 2.36
19 73.4% Levant_BA + 26.6% Jew_Ashkenazi @ 2.37
20 88.4% Levant_BA + 11.6% Norwegian @ 2.38

Exactly, like the today's Egyptians, Palestinians, Jordanians and Arabians.

[Pahli]

Exactly, like the today's Egyptians, Palestinians, Jordanians and Arabians.

Some Egyptians also look Levantine, don't think all of them have high SSA admix.

[Kamal900]

Some Egyptians also look Levantine, don't think all of them have high SSA admix.

Yeah, especially the ones from lower Egypt. The distinction comes from their SSA admixture, nothing else.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUZP_BaZL94


So it looks like a light skinned east african then?

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

How many mummies were tested? Theres only 3 up there. Are they the royal family? Which royal family?

[Kamal900]

So it looks like a light skinned east african then?

Not really, the bust is made of wood which darkens overtime. I suggest to look at busts that are made out of ceramic and paint.

[Peterski]

These ancient samples are all from Middle Egypt.

Maybe if we get ancient samples from Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt, there will be some regional differences between them (for example more of SSA admixture in Upper Egypt).

[Kamal900]

How many mummies were tested? Theres only 3 up there. Are they the royal family? Which royal family?

No, they're from ancient cemeteries of the normal Egyptian folk, not from the valley of the kings. The three samples are from three different time periods, and they all show similar genetic results to today's Egyptians and their neighbors in the southern Levant and Arabia.

[Pahli]

So it looks like a light skinned east african then?

Lol, look at this; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Not really, the bust is made of wood which darkens overtime. I suggest to look at busts that are made out of ceramic and paint.

She looks like a east ssa to me really. But could end up being like a andaman who isnt genetically andaman but looks ssa.

[Peterski]

Lol, look at this; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

Weren't those Fayum folks actually Greek-speakers from Lower Egypt?

[Pahli]

Weren't those Fayum folks actually Greek-speakers from Lower Egypt?

I'm not sure if all of them are Greek. Think some of them are Egyptian too.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Lol, look at this; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

Those are greek paintings of greeks/romans ruling Egypt. Look at the paintings art style for goodness sakes. But your wiki link even tells us this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits#/media/File:Portrait_of_the_Boy_Eutyches_-_Metmuseum_18.9.2.jpg

Eutyches - greek


While painted cartonnage mummy cases date back to pharaonic times, the Faiyum mummy portraits were an innovation dating to the Coptic period at the time of the Roman occupation of Egypt.[1]

The portraits covered the faces of bodies that were mummified for burial. Extant examples indicate that they were mounted into the bands of cloth that were used to wrap the bodies. Almost all have now been detached from the mummies.[2] They usually depict a single person, showing the head, or head and upper chest, viewed frontally. In terms of artistic tradition, the images clearly derive more from Greco-Roman artistic traditions than Egyptian ones.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fayum-34.jpg

Mummy portrait of a young woman, 3rd century, Louvre, Paris.


In parallel, more scientific engagement with the portraits was beginning. In 1887, the British archaeologist Flinders Petrie started excavations at Hawara. He discovered a Roman necropolis which yielded 81 portrait mummies in the first year of excavation. At an exhibition in London, these portraits drew large crowds. In the following year, Petrie continued excavations at the same location but now suffered from the competition of a German and an Egyptian art dealer. Petrie returned in the winter of 1910/11 and excavated a further 70 portrait mummies, some of them quite badly preserved.[7] With very few exceptions, Petrie's studies still provide the only examples of mummy portraits so far found as the result of systematic excavation and published properly. Although the published studies are not entirely up to modern standards, they remain the most important source for the find contexts of portrait mummies.




Late 19th and early 20th century collectors[edit]
In 1892, the German archaeologist von Kaufmann discovered the so-called "Tomb of Aline", which held three mummy portraits; among the most famous today. Other important sources of such finds are at Antinopolis and Akhmim. The French archaeologist Albert Gayet worked at Antinoopolis and found much relevant material, but his work, like that of many of his contemporaries, does not satisfy modern standards. His documentation is incomplete, many of his finds remain without context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinopolis

Antinopolis (Antinoöpolis, Antinoopolis, Antinoë) (Greek: Ἀντινόου πόλις, Coptic ⲁⲛⲧⲓⲛⲱⲟⲩ Antinow, modern Sheikh 'Ibada) was a city founded at an older Egyptian village by the Roman emperor Hadrian to commemorate his deified young beloved, Antinous, on the east bank of the Nile, not far from the site in Upper Egypt where Antinous drowned in 130 AD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhmim
" Herodotus mentions the temple dedicated to Perseus and asserts that Chemmis was remarkable for the celebration of games in honor of that hero, after the manner of the Greeks, at which prizes were given; as a matter of fact some representations are known of Nubians and people of Punt (southern coastal Sudan and the Eritrean coast) clambering up poles before the god Min. Min was especially a god of the desert routes on the east of Egypt, and the trading tribes are likely to have gathered to his festivals for business and pleasure at Coptos (which was really near Neapolis) even more than at Akhmim. Herodotus perhaps confused Coptos with Chemmis. Strabo mentions linen-weaving and stone-cutting as ancient industries of Panopolis, and it is not altogether a coincidence that the cemetery of Akhmim is one of the chief sources of the beautiful textiles of Roman and Christian age, that are brought from Egypt.[1]




Today, mummy portraits are represented in all important archaeological museums of the world. Many have fine examples on display, notably the British Museum, the Royal Museum of Scotland, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and the Louvre in Paris.[8] Because they were mostly recovered through inappropriate and unprofessional means, virtually all are without archaeological context, a fact which consistently lowers the quality of archaeological and culture-historical information they provide. As a result, their overall significance as well as their specific interpretations remain controversial.[8]

https://s1.postimg.org/nlb8glq27/330px-_Fayum-35.jpg


http://www.metmuseum.org/press/exhibitions/2000/ancient-faces-mummy-portraits-from-roman-egypt
ANCIENT FACES: MUMMY PORTRAITS FROM ROMAN EGYPT

February 15 - May 7, 2000
Special Exhibition Galleries, Second Floor
Roman Egypt
Mummy Portraits
Dating and Styles
Early European Interest in Mummy Portraits

During the first through the third century A.D., a unique art form — the mummy portrait — flourished in Roman Egypt. Stylistically related to the tradition of Greco-Roman painting, but created for a typically Egyptian purpose — inclusion in the funerary trappings of mummies — these are startlingly realistic portraits of men and women of all ages. More than 70 of the finest mummy portraits from European and North American collections will be on view at The Metropolitan Museum of Art this spring in Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt. These rare and fragile works, including the Metropolitan's entire collection of mummy portraits, will not travel as a group to any other venue.

Also on view will be a range of objects — including jewelry, papyri, sculpture, and wrapped mummies — illustrating the culture and funerary customs of the time. Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt will open to the public on February 15.

The exhibition is made possible in part by The Andrew W. Mellon Foundation.

The exhibition was organized by The Metropolitan Museum of Art, in collaboration with The British Museum.

Philippe de Montebello, Director of the Metropolitan Museum, commented: "Created nearly 2,000 years ago and, until recently, all but overlooked by scholars and the public alike, these ancient faces still engage the modern viewer by the directness of their gaze and their evocation of a long-gone society. The athletes, learned men and women, soldiers, and priests, children, adolescents, and old people are rendered in rich colors with the freshness of yesterday."

The Metropolitan's presentation of Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt is the result of a collaboration with the British Museum, which organized a similar exhibition in 1977. With that groundwork, a new selection of objects has been chosen for the New York presentation. The full range of mummy portrait techniques — encaustic and tempera on wood panels, tempera paintings on linen, and painted masks and coffins of plaster and cartonnage — will be represented in the exhibition, which is organized thematically and chronologically. The exhibition will begin with an introduction to Roman Egypt, from everyday life to religious beliefs and funerary customs.

The exhibition is the third in a series of four offered at the Metropolitan in 1999-2000 focusing on the art of Egypt.

Roman Egypt
After the battle of Actium and the death of Cleopatra VII (30 B.C.), Egypt became part of the Roman Empire. The importance of the new province was expressed by its special status as the personal estate of the emperor, ruled by a prefect. Rome's interest in Egypt was, to a large degree, economic: the fertile lands along the Nile were capable of producing a rich surplus of foodstuffs, especially grain, that became essential in feeding the populace of the city of Rome. Moreover, the port of Alexandria exported Egypt's manifold manufactured goods, such as papyrus, glass, and other luxury articles, while the Nile and the desert routes linking it with the Red Sea provided trade connections with inner Africa, the Arabian peninsula, and India. Egypt's deserts also furnished a great variety of minerals, ores, and hard stones. The beneficiaries of such advantageous economic conditions were — for a while, at least — not only the Roman rulers but also a rich upper class of landowners and merchants in Egypt itself, consisting of a complex mixture of indigenous Egyptians and descendents of people from countries all around the eastern Mediterranean who had settled in the Nile Valley and oases (such as the Fayum) during the rule of the Ptolemies (332-30 B.C.).

The truly multicultural population, especially in the cities of Roman Egypt, provided a fertile ground for phenomena such as the painted panel portraits on mummies. In their artistic style and technique, the portraits on wood panels followed the Greek painting tradition of depicting the subject in three-quarter view, with a single light source casting realistic shadows and highlights on the face. Indeed, since practically no panel paintings from the Greek world have been preserved, the mummy portraits — conserved by Egypt's arid climate — are the only examples of an art form that ancient literary sources place among the highest achievements of Greek culture. Besides style and technique, the clothing, hairstyles, and jewelry worn by the individuals represented in the panel portraits display fashions that were prevalent in the whole Roman Empire — most likely under strong influences from the imperial court at Rome — but also incorporating special eastern Mediterranean idiosyncrasies, such as a profusion of curls in some of the female hairdos. None of these styles and fashions had any connection with traditional Egyptian customs. In short, taken by themselves, the encaustic panel portraits appear to have no links with Pharaonic Egypt.

Seen in their original context, however, the character of the painted portraits changes. Placed over the faces and fastened into the linen wrappings of Egyptian mummies, the portraits demonstrate clearly that the seemingly Greco-Roman individuals represented in the paintings adhered to traditional Egyptian beliefs about the afterlife. Strong ties to the traditional Pharaonic religion can also be deduced from the popularity of Hawara as a burial place for panel portrait mummies. This site, at the entrance to the Fayum oasis, was the place of the pyramid and mortuary temple of the Middle Kingdom Pharaoh Amenemhat III (ca. 1844-1797 B.C.). Greek authors called the temple the "labyrinth," describing statues of "monsters" — that is, crocodile and other animal-headed deities — still standing in their chapels in the first century A.D. The wish to be buried in such a place signals not only veneration of Egyptian deities, but a deep-seated need for a connection to the traditional religion and culture.

Scholars recently have described the society for whose members the mummy portraits were painted as one in which the individual played a number of different roles, according to their activities and functions. People may have felt as Greeks in the gymnasium, as Romans in administrative roles, and as Egyptians in their village communities, and when venerating the gods or contemplating the afterlife. This situation must have caused considerable tension in the society, but it may be one of the factors that make the painted portraits such important works of art. A present-day artist, Euphrosyne C. Doxiadis, succinctly described this aspect of the paintings in the exhibition catalogue: "Of these two strands [the Greek painting tradition and Egyptian funerary beliefs], the sophistication of the first and the intensity of the second combined to produce moments of breathtaking beauty and unsettling presence."

Mummy Portraits
The technique used in painting the majority of mummy portraits is called encaustic (Greek for "burnt in"). This term, used by ancient authors, is somewhat misleading, because heat is not absolutely necessary to attain the effects seen in the encaustic panels. Therefore, encaustic has come to mean any painting method in which pigment is mixed with beeswax. Researchers have found that a great variety of methods were used to achieve the desired effects in the encaustic paintings: hot or cold wax, under-painting with various colors, and a variety of soft or hard tools that were used cold or heated. To the modern viewer, part of the attraction of encaustic paintings is their similarity to oil painting, since the wax medium could be applied in thick layers showing a great variety of tool marks and free brush strokes. An important characteristic of encaustic mummy portraits is the use of wafer-thin gold leaf. In some pieces, the entire background is gilded; in others, wreaths and fillets are added, and jewelry and garment decoration is emphasized.

Another painting technique found in mummy panel portraits is tempera, in which pigments are mixed with water-soluble binding agents, most frequently animal glue. Tempera portraits are painted on light or dark grounds in bold brush strokes and fine hatching and cross-hatching. Their surface is matte, in contrast to the glossy surface of encaustic paintings. This style of painting — which has antecedents in ancient Egyptian painting of Pharaonic times — calls for sure draftsmanship, and has been described as "calligraphic." Since the faces in tempera paintings usually are shown frontally, and the complex treatment of light and shadow is less prominent than in the encaustic works, tempera painting may be linked more closely to indigenous Egyptian artistic traditions. There are, however, many indications that the mummy portrait painters using the tempera technique were strongly influenced by the paintings in encaustic. In addition, some works were created in a mixed encaustic and tempera technique. It is not known whether the same painters used all of the methods (encaustic, tempera, and mixed).

Mummy portrait panels consisted of a variety of woods — indigenous (sycamore), imported (cedar, pine, fir, cypress, oak), and possibly imported, but also growing in Egypt at the time (lime, fig, and yew). Some portraits are painted on linen stiffened by glue.

Dating and Styles
Various styles are discernible inside the two main categories of encaustic and tempera paintings. In some cases, a particular style of painting can be linked to a particular place. Paintings on mummies found at Hawara and er-Rubayat (the cemetery of ancient Philadelphia) are the largest groups, and since both places are located in the Fayum region, this has led to the practice of calling all mummy paintings "Fayum portraits." Other important groups were excavated at Antinoopolis, Memphis, Thebes, and various places along the Nile in the vicinity of the Fayum. The mere fact that both encaustic and tempera paintings have been found at er-Rubayat shows that not all portraits found in a cemetery were painted by artists of the same school. Literary sources indicate that mummies could, on occasion, be transported over rather far distances. There is also evidence for traveling artists. The most obvious regionally confined traits, finally, concern the shape into which the panels were cut, an observation that has more to do with burial customs than painting style, because most of the cuttings were made just before the piece was attached to the mummy. Nevertheless, it is possible, to some extent, to consider artistic peculiarities among a localized group of portraits as constituting the style of that region. Antinoopolis paintings, for example, are characterized by a striking austerity in the representation of the individuals, while the encaustic painters of the Fayum sites show the richest palette and greatest sophistication in juxtaposing light and shadow.

Unmistakable stylistic differences also exist between portraits of different dates, and the dating of mummy portraits is a hotly debated subject among scholars. There is general consensus, however, that mummy portrait painting began around 30-40 A.D. The dates of encaustic pieces from this period to the beginning of the third century are fairly well established on the basis of the hairstyles and jewelry worn by the persons represented in the paintings. The dates of some major tempera paintings are still under discussion, however, as some scholars believe they continued to be painted through the fourth century. In this exhibition and its catalogue, the more convincing earlier dates for the tempera pieces are used.

In Ancient Faces, the encaustic panel paintings will be presented in chronological groups, separating the colorful, very painterly Julio-Claudian panels (35-68 A.D.), which seem to capture a fleeting moment, from the full-blooded Flavian (69-96 A.D.), and the sculptural Trajanic (96-117 A.D.) paintings. A number of very striking images from the period of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 A.D.) show interesting differences between the works from the Fayum and those from Antinoopolis, a city founded by Hadrian in 130 A.D. The following Antonine period (138-192 A.D.) was a peak in the painting of mummy portraits, with many unforgettable images, such as the priest of Serapis (cat. 21), the young man from the Munich Antikensammlung (cat. 19), the young man from Berlin (cat. 39), and a number of the Museum's own portraits (cat. 69-71), all masterpieces of characterization through paint. Some late Antonine to early Severan pieces from the turn of the second to the third century include a boy's portrait from the Getty Museum (cat. 61) and a bearded man from the Louvre (cat. 54), the latter again from Antinoopolis. Since the later first century, but especially during the Antonine period, tempera paintings appear parallel to those in encaustic. These take an important place also during the last period of mummy portrait painting, the first half of the third century with highlights such as two panels with young boys' images from the Brooklyn Museum of Art (cat. 44-45) and a man with a short beard from the Getty Museum (cat. 47).

Linen shrouds wrapped around mummies were painted with representations of full-length figures, usually in tempera, or in a mixture of tempera and encaustic. Some shrouds will be shown side-by-side with the contemporary panels. One especially beautiful shroud and a fragment of another, both from the Louvre, are among the latest objects in the exhibition. On the more complete shroud (cat. 99), which is from Antinoopolis, a woman is pictured wearing a purple dalmatic (a wide-sleeved garment) and holding in her left hand an Egyptian ankh (life) symbol; she lifts her right hand, palm open, in a gesture of protection and veneration known from images of Isis. The catalogue entry describes this image aptly as a perfect illustration "that the fourth century was a . . . period of transition between paganism and Christianity."

Placing a painted portrait on the face of a mummy, or wrapping the entire body into a painted shroud, were not the only forms of artistic funerary outfit common in Roman Egypt. At Hawara, for instance, not only paintings were found covering the heads of mummies, but also gilded and painted sculptural head-, breast-, and arm pieces made of cartonnage, a mixture of linen and glue. These mummy covers, although direct descendants of Pharaonic head and body covers of the same material, were, in Roman times, molded to show the person in Greco-Roman hairstyle and clothing, wearing jewelry very much like that seen in the paintings. Two examples of such mummy covers will be in the exhibition (cat. 27 and 28).

Another type of mummy cover especially common in, but not confined to, Middle Egypt, incorporated faces and even fully raised heads of molded clay or plaster. The Museum's complete mummy of Artemidora from Meir in southern Middle Egypt (cat. 85) is an especially impressive example. Other headpieces of a similar type and a number of detached heads serve to show the range of possibilities in this genre. Some heads are very stylized, but others are astonishingly personal recreations of real human beings. Significantly, the influences from Greek art are more evident in the idealized portraits than they are in the realistic examples, precluding the simple equation of Egyptian with idealization, and Greek with realism. Links with Pharaonic art and religion are especially strong in the painted decorations on the sides of many of the mummy head covers, where scenes and deities connected with the Egyptian afterlife and its cosmic aspects are depicted. On the bodies of mummies, such as the one of Artemidora, figures of Egyptian gods are applied, cut from sheet gold.

Still another, rather late form of preparing a Roman-era mummy is represented in the exhibition by the late-third-century A.D. mummy of a woman with a molded and painted plaster and linen mask, excavated by the Museum's expedition to Thebes (Luxor) in 1923-24.

Together, these examples of Roman-period funerary art testify to the diversity of existing styles that were available to the inhabitants of Egypt regionally, and as a matter of choice. Portrait painting on wood panels in encaustic and tempera is thus given its proper place as one possibility among many others to confront death and the afterlife.

Early European interest in mummy portraits
News of the existence of mummy portraits reached Europe in the mid-17th century, when Pietro della Valle (1586-1652) published an account of his travels to Persia and India by way of Egypt. Although the two mummy portraits he acquired in Saqqara (outside Cairo) were described and depicted in the book, they were perceived as curiosities rather than works of art. Another two centuries would elapse before mummy portraits would attract a sustained level of attention in Europe.

Archaeological excavations by the British and the French early in the 19th century yielded additional portraits, but it took several extensive finds late in the century to pique the interest of scholars and connoisseurs.

In 1887, inhabitants of the area near el-Rubayat (in the Fayum) discovered and excavated numerous mummies with portraits. Purchased immediately by Theodor Graf (1840-1903), an Austrian businessman, these works were exhibited in various European cities and in New York before being sold to buyers worldwide.

In 1888-89, the noted British archaeologist W. M. Flinders Petrie (1853-1942) discovered a major Roman-period cemetery at Hawara (also in the Fayum), the burial site of many mummies with finely rendered, mainly encaustic portraits. The importance of the Hawara find cannot be overstated, as most of the mummy portraits now in the United Kingdom were discovered there by Petrie. In the 1890s, a German expedition to Hawara was mounted, and Petrie himself returned in 1911.

In the decades that followed, however, public as well as scholarly interest in mummy portraits waned. Egyptologists devoted their investigations to the art of the pharaohs, while scholars of Greek and Roman art considered the mummy portraits an expression of Egyptian art, and therefore outside their purview. With the rise of interdisciplinary studies came renewed interest in Roman Egypt, and mummy portraits have once again attracted general interest and attention.

Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid.

Lenders to the exhibition include European museums — the British Museum (London); Antikensammlung, Ägyptisches Museum und Papyrussammlung, (Berlin); Antikensammlung (Munich), and the Louvre (Paris) — and North American collections of the Brooklyn Museum, the J. Paul Getty Museum, Goucher College (Maryland), the Kelsey Museum of Ancient Archaeology (Ann Arbor), Swarthmore College (Pennsylvania), and the Royal Ontario Museum (Toronto).

An audio tour, part of the Metropolitan's new Key to the Met Audio Guide, is available for rental at the entrance to the exhibition ($5, $4.50 for members).

The Key to the Met Audio Guide program is sponsored by Bloomberg News.

Publication
The catalogue Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt, originally published in 1997 in conjunction with the exhibition at The British Museum, has been newly revised to accompany the presentation at the Metropolitan. The updated catalogue, which has been edited by Susan Walker and expanded to include several examples in North American collections and which is also published by British Museum Press, will be available for $35 (softcover) in the Metropolitan Museum's Bookshops.

Educational Programs
A variety of education programs will be offered, including gallery talks for general visitors and classes for students.

The exhibition is organized by Dorothea Arnold, Lila Acheson Wallace Curator in Charge of Egyptian Art, and Marsha Hill, Associate Curator of Egyptian Art. Exhibition design is by Jeffrey L. Daly, Chief Designer, and Dennis Kois, Design Assistant of the Museum's Design Department.

[Lucas]

Y-DNA

Sample Period Date BC Haplogroup
JK2134 Pre-Ptolemaic 776–569 - J1a2a2-Z2329
JK2911 Pre-Ptolemaic 769–560 - J2b1-PF7314
JK2888 Ptolemaic 97–2 - E1b1b1a1b2-V22

Eupedia.com:

JK2134 mummy - J1a2a2-Z2329
J1a2a (Z1828) is defined by the STR values DYS436=11 and DYS388<15. It is the second most common top level subclade after J1-P58. It is particularly frequent around the Taurus and Zagros mountains and all over the Caucasus region, but has also been found at low frequencies in western Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, South Italy, Central Europe, France, and the British Isles. The L1189 subclade seems to be mostly northern European (+ a few samples in Greece and the Arabian peninsula). Under Z1842, the CTS1460 subclade is geographically restricted to the Caucasus, Zagros and Taurus, while ZS3089 is found mainly around Armenia and Azerbaijan.
https://s1.postimg.org/nnpjzhejz/image.jpg



jK2911 mummy - ]J2b1
https://s4.postimg.org/wp0oiflj1/image.gif


Jk21888 mummy - E1b1b1a1b2-V22
E-V22 is found primarily in western Ethiopia, northern Egypt and in the southern Levant. In Europe it is therefore associated with the Phoenicians and the Jews. The Phoenicians could have disseminated E-V22 to Sicily, Sardinia, southern Spain and the Maghreb, and the Jews to Greece and mainland Italy and Spain.
https://s16.postimg.org/3v8rlad11/image.gif

[Lucas]

So their autosomal Levantine / Jewish-like result are in line with their haplo also.

[Isleño]

Libya was a Greek colony for 800 years and even before the foundation of Tripolis by the Greeks the land is recorded to have had a white European-Levantine population by the Egyptians. For example Septimus Severus was born to an Italian Roman mother and a Punic, ie. Phoenician father in Libya.

Northern Africa was never black at any time in recorded history. The population was European-Levantine since recorded history began and before recorded history Berber, and the Brebers where of white Arab appearance.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BY6X6X/portrait-of-a-berber-man-in-tozeur-tunisia-BY6X6X.jpgYes, I completely agree. However I do think the picture you posted, this person may have more recent SSA admixture and maybe the person that created this: http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/race1.jpg saw Berbers that looked like this: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cc/f8/bb/ccf8bbe7a0db608e3dd7fe396765a97a--negative-people-bohemian-gypsy.jpg which is similar in appearance to this Syrian: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Bashar_al-Assad_in_Russia_%282015-10-21%29_08.jpg for him to create skin shades of the Asiatic and the Libyan to be both very light in comparison to his own color which was more like this: https://eappiblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/1-2-16-suleiman-s-resident-of-ein-ar-rashash-bedouin-community-facing-imminent-demolition-eappia-dunne.jpg?w=584&h=389 look here for comparison http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/race1.jpg

[wvwvw]

Assad is lighter than the average Syrian as is the king of Jordan. And many north Africans have nowdays mixed with French colonialists or are descended from the slave european women that ended up in the slave markets there. Tripoli used to be a major slavery hub during the Ottoman era.

[Kamal900]

Assad is lighter than the average Syrian as is the king of Jordan. And many north Africans have nowdays mixed with French colonialists or are descended from the slave european women that ended up in the slave markets there. Tripoli used to be a major slavery hub during the Ottoman era.

Yes. Maybe the early dynasty of Egyptians were Blacks since nobody have genetically sequenced their results.

[Isleño]

Those are greek paintings of greeks/romans ruling Egypt. Look at the paintings art style for goodness sakes. But your wiki link even tells us this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits#/media/File:Portrait_of_the_Boy_Eutyches_-_Metmuseum_18.9.2.jpg

Eutyches - greek



The portraits covered the faces of bodies that were mummified for burial. Extant examples indicate that they were mounted into the bands of cloth that were used to wrap the bodies. Almost all have now been detached from the mummies.[2] They usually depict a single person, showing the head, or head and upper chest, viewed frontally. In terms of artistic tradition, the images clearly derive more from Greco-Roman artistic traditions than Egyptian ones.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fayum-34.jpg







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinopolis


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhmim
" Herodotus mentions the temple dedicated to Perseus and asserts that Chemmis was remarkable for the celebration of games in honor of that hero, after the manner of the Greeks, at which prizes were given; as a matter of fact some representations are known of Nubians and people of Punt (southern coastal Sudan and the Eritrean coast) clambering up poles before the god Min. Min was especially a god of the desert routes on the east of Egypt, and the trading tribes are likely to have gathered to his festivals for business and pleasure at Coptos (which was really near Neapolis) even more than at Akhmim. Herodotus perhaps confused Coptos with Chemmis. Strabo mentions linen-weaving and stone-cutting as ancient industries of Panopolis, and it is not altogether a coincidence that the cemetery of Akhmim is one of the chief sources of the beautiful textiles of Roman and Christian age, that are brought from Egypt.[1]




https://s1.postimg.org/nlb8glq27/330px-_Fayum-35.jpg


http://www.metmuseum.org/press/exhibitions/2000/ancient-faces-mummy-portraits-from-roman-egypt
ANCIENT FACES: MUMMY PORTRAITS FROM ROMAN EGYPT

February 15 - May 7, 2000
Special Exhibition Galleries, Second Floor
Roman Egypt
Mummy Portraits
Dating and Styles
Early European Interest in Mummy Portraits

During the first through the third century A.D., a unique art form — the mummy portrait — flourished in Roman Egypt. Stylistically related to the tradition of Greco-Roman painting, but created for a typically Egyptian purpose — inclusion in the funerary trappings of mummies — these are startlingly realistic portraits of men and women of all ages. More than 70 of the finest mummy portraits from European and North American collections will be on view at The Metropolitan Museum of Art this spring in Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt. These rare and fragile works, including the Metropolitan's entire collection of mummy portraits, will not travel as a group to any other venue.

Also on view will be a range of objects — including jewelry, papyri, sculpture, and wrapped mummies — illustrating the culture and funerary customs of the time. Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt will open to the public on February 15.

The exhibition is made possible in part by The Andrew W. Mellon Foundation.

The exhibition was organized by The Metropolitan Museum of Art, in collaboration with The British Museum.

Philippe de Montebello, Director of the Metropolitan Museum, commented: "Created nearly 2,000 years ago and, until recently, all but overlooked by scholars and the public alike, these ancient faces still engage the modern viewer by the directness of their gaze and their evocation of a long-gone society. The athletes, learned men and women, soldiers, and priests, children, adolescents, and old people are rendered in rich colors with the freshness of yesterday."

The Metropolitan's presentation of Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt is the result of a collaboration with the British Museum, which organized a similar exhibition in 1977. With that groundwork, a new selection of objects has been chosen for the New York presentation. The full range of mummy portrait techniques — encaustic and tempera on wood panels, tempera paintings on linen, and painted masks and coffins of plaster and cartonnage — will be represented in the exhibition, which is organized thematically and chronologically. The exhibition will begin with an introduction to Roman Egypt, from everyday life to religious beliefs and funerary customs.

The exhibition is the third in a series of four offered at the Metropolitan in 1999-2000 focusing on the art of Egypt.

Roman Egypt
After the battle of Actium and the death of Cleopatra VII (30 B.C.), Egypt became part of the Roman Empire. The importance of the new province was expressed by its special status as the personal estate of the emperor, ruled by a prefect. Rome's interest in Egypt was, to a large degree, economic: the fertile lands along the Nile were capable of producing a rich surplus of foodstuffs, especially grain, that became essential in feeding the populace of the city of Rome. Moreover, the port of Alexandria exported Egypt's manifold manufactured goods, such as papyrus, glass, and other luxury articles, while the Nile and the desert routes linking it with the Red Sea provided trade connections with inner Africa, the Arabian peninsula, and India. Egypt's deserts also furnished a great variety of minerals, ores, and hard stones. The beneficiaries of such advantageous economic conditions were — for a while, at least — not only the Roman rulers but also a rich upper class of landowners and merchants in Egypt itself, consisting of a complex mixture of indigenous Egyptians and descendents of people from countries all around the eastern Mediterranean who had settled in the Nile Valley and oases (such as the Fayum) during the rule of the Ptolemies (332-30 B.C.).

The truly multicultural population, especially in the cities of Roman Egypt, provided a fertile ground for phenomena such as the painted panel portraits on mummies. In their artistic style and technique, the portraits on wood panels followed the Greek painting tradition of depicting the subject in three-quarter view, with a single light source casting realistic shadows and highlights on the face. Indeed, since practically no panel paintings from the Greek world have been preserved, the mummy portraits — conserved by Egypt's arid climate — are the only examples of an art form that ancient literary sources place among the highest achievements of Greek culture. Besides style and technique, the clothing, hairstyles, and jewelry worn by the individuals represented in the panel portraits display fashions that were prevalent in the whole Roman Empire — most likely under strong influences from the imperial court at Rome — but also incorporating special eastern Mediterranean idiosyncrasies, such as a profusion of curls in some of the female hairdos. None of these styles and fashions had any connection with traditional Egyptian customs. In short, taken by themselves, the encaustic panel portraits appear to have no links with Pharaonic Egypt.

Seen in their original context, however, the character of the painted portraits changes. Placed over the faces and fastened into the linen wrappings of Egyptian mummies, the portraits demonstrate clearly that the seemingly Greco-Roman individuals represented in the paintings adhered to traditional Egyptian beliefs about the afterlife. Strong ties to the traditional Pharaonic religion can also be deduced from the popularity of Hawara as a burial place for panel portrait mummies. This site, at the entrance to the Fayum oasis, was the place of the pyramid and mortuary temple of the Middle Kingdom Pharaoh Amenemhat III (ca. 1844-1797 B.C.). Greek authors called the temple the "labyrinth," describing statues of "monsters" — that is, crocodile and other animal-headed deities — still standing in their chapels in the first century A.D. The wish to be buried in such a place signals not only veneration of Egyptian deities, but a deep-seated need for a connection to the traditional religion and culture.

Scholars recently have described the society for whose members the mummy portraits were painted as one in which the individual played a number of different roles, according to their activities and functions. People may have felt as Greeks in the gymnasium, as Romans in administrative roles, and as Egyptians in their village communities, and when venerating the gods or contemplating the afterlife. This situation must have caused considerable tension in the society, but it may be one of the factors that make the painted portraits such important works of art. A present-day artist, Euphrosyne C. Doxiadis, succinctly described this aspect of the paintings in the exhibition catalogue: "Of these two strands [the Greek painting tradition and Egyptian funerary beliefs], the sophistication of the first and the intensity of the second combined to produce moments of breathtaking beauty and unsettling presence."

Mummy Portraits
The technique used in painting the majority of mummy portraits is called encaustic (Greek for "burnt in"). This term, used by ancient authors, is somewhat misleading, because heat is not absolutely necessary to attain the effects seen in the encaustic panels. Therefore, encaustic has come to mean any painting method in which pigment is mixed with beeswax. Researchers have found that a great variety of methods were used to achieve the desired effects in the encaustic paintings: hot or cold wax, under-painting with various colors, and a variety of soft or hard tools that were used cold or heated. To the modern viewer, part of the attraction of encaustic paintings is their similarity to oil painting, since the wax medium could be applied in thick layers showing a great variety of tool marks and free brush strokes. An important characteristic of encaustic mummy portraits is the use of wafer-thin gold leaf. In some pieces, the entire background is gilded; in others, wreaths and fillets are added, and jewelry and garment decoration is emphasized.

Another painting technique found in mummy panel portraits is tempera, in which pigments are mixed with water-soluble binding agents, most frequently animal glue. Tempera portraits are painted on light or dark grounds in bold brush strokes and fine hatching and cross-hatching. Their surface is matte, in contrast to the glossy surface of encaustic paintings. This style of painting — which has antecedents in ancient Egyptian painting of Pharaonic times — calls for sure draftsmanship, and has been described as "calligraphic." Since the faces in tempera paintings usually are shown frontally, and the complex treatment of light and shadow is less prominent than in the encaustic works, tempera painting may be linked more closely to indigenous Egyptian artistic traditions. There are, however, many indications that the mummy portrait painters using the tempera technique were strongly influenced by the paintings in encaustic. In addition, some works were created in a mixed encaustic and tempera technique. It is not known whether the same painters used all of the methods (encaustic, tempera, and mixed).

Mummy portrait panels consisted of a variety of woods — indigenous (sycamore), imported (cedar, pine, fir, cypress, oak), and possibly imported, but also growing in Egypt at the time (lime, fig, and yew). Some portraits are painted on linen stiffened by glue.

Dating and Styles
Various styles are discernible inside the two main categories of encaustic and tempera paintings. In some cases, a particular style of painting can be linked to a particular place. Paintings on mummies found at Hawara and er-Rubayat (the cemetery of ancient Philadelphia) are the largest groups, and since both places are located in the Fayum region, this has led to the practice of calling all mummy paintings "Fayum portraits." Other important groups were excavated at Antinoopolis, Memphis, Thebes, and various places along the Nile in the vicinity of the Fayum. The mere fact that both encaustic and tempera paintings have been found at er-Rubayat shows that not all portraits found in a cemetery were painted by artists of the same school. Literary sources indicate that mummies could, on occasion, be transported over rather far distances. There is also evidence for traveling artists. The most obvious regionally confined traits, finally, concern the shape into which the panels were cut, an observation that has more to do with burial customs than painting style, because most of the cuttings were made just before the piece was attached to the mummy. Nevertheless, it is possible, to some extent, to consider artistic peculiarities among a localized group of portraits as constituting the style of that region. Antinoopolis paintings, for example, are characterized by a striking austerity in the representation of the individuals, while the encaustic painters of the Fayum sites show the richest palette and greatest sophistication in juxtaposing light and shadow.

Unmistakable stylistic differences also exist between portraits of different dates, and the dating of mummy portraits is a hotly debated subject among scholars. There is general consensus, however, that mummy portrait painting began around 30-40 A.D. The dates of encaustic pieces from this period to the beginning of the third century are fairly well established on the basis of the hairstyles and jewelry worn by the persons represented in the paintings. The dates of some major tempera paintings are still under discussion, however, as some scholars believe they continued to be painted through the fourth century. In this exhibition and its catalogue, the more convincing earlier dates for the tempera pieces are used.

In Ancient Faces, the encaustic panel paintings will be presented in chronological groups, separating the colorful, very painterly Julio-Claudian panels (35-68 A.D.), which seem to capture a fleeting moment, from the full-blooded Flavian (69-96 A.D.), and the sculptural Trajanic (96-117 A.D.) paintings. A number of very striking images from the period of Emperor Hadrian (117-138 A.D.) show interesting differences between the works from the Fayum and those from Antinoopolis, a city founded by Hadrian in 130 A.D. The following Antonine period (138-192 A.D.) was a peak in the painting of mummy portraits, with many unforgettable images, such as the priest of Serapis (cat. 21), the young man from the Munich Antikensammlung (cat. 19), the young man from Berlin (cat. 39), and a number of the Museum's own portraits (cat. 69-71), all masterpieces of characterization through paint. Some late Antonine to early Severan pieces from the turn of the second to the third century include a boy's portrait from the Getty Museum (cat. 61) and a bearded man from the Louvre (cat. 54), the latter again from Antinoopolis. Since the later first century, but especially during the Antonine period, tempera paintings appear parallel to those in encaustic. These take an important place also during the last period of mummy portrait painting, the first half of the third century with highlights such as two panels with young boys' images from the Brooklyn Museum of Art (cat. 44-45) and a man with a short beard from the Getty Museum (cat. 47).

Linen shrouds wrapped around mummies were painted with representations of full-length figures, usually in tempera, or in a mixture of tempera and encaustic. Some shrouds will be shown side-by-side with the contemporary panels. One especially beautiful shroud and a fragment of another, both from the Louvre, are among the latest objects in the exhibition. On the more complete shroud (cat. 99), which is from Antinoopolis, a woman is pictured wearing a purple dalmatic (a wide-sleeved garment) and holding in her left hand an Egyptian ankh (life) symbol; she lifts her right hand, palm open, in a gesture of protection and veneration known from images of Isis. The catalogue entry describes this image aptly as a perfect illustration "that the fourth century was a . . . period of transition between paganism and Christianity."

Placing a painted portrait on the face of a mummy, or wrapping the entire body into a painted shroud, were not the only forms of artistic funerary outfit common in Roman Egypt. At Hawara, for instance, not only paintings were found covering the heads of mummies, but also gilded and painted sculptural head-, breast-, and arm pieces made of cartonnage, a mixture of linen and glue. These mummy covers, although direct descendants of Pharaonic head and body covers of the same material, were, in Roman times, molded to show the person in Greco-Roman hairstyle and clothing, wearing jewelry very much like that seen in the paintings. Two examples of such mummy covers will be in the exhibition (cat. 27 and 28).

Another type of mummy cover especially common in, but not confined to, Middle Egypt, incorporated faces and even fully raised heads of molded clay or plaster. The Museum's complete mummy of Artemidora from Meir in southern Middle Egypt (cat. 85) is an especially impressive example. Other headpieces of a similar type and a number of detached heads serve to show the range of possibilities in this genre. Some heads are very stylized, but others are astonishingly personal recreations of real human beings. Significantly, the influences from Greek art are more evident in the idealized portraits than they are in the realistic examples, precluding the simple equation of Egyptian with idealization, and Greek with realism. Links with Pharaonic art and religion are especially strong in the painted decorations on the sides of many of the mummy head covers, where scenes and deities connected with the Egyptian afterlife and its cosmic aspects are depicted. On the bodies of mummies, such as the one of Artemidora, figures of Egyptian gods are applied, cut from sheet gold.

Still another, rather late form of preparing a Roman-era mummy is represented in the exhibition by the late-third-century A.D. mummy of a woman with a molded and painted plaster and linen mask, excavated by the Museum's expedition to Thebes (Luxor) in 1923-24.

Together, these examples of Roman-period funerary art testify to the diversity of existing styles that were available to the inhabitants of Egypt regionally, and as a matter of choice. Portrait painting on wood panels in encaustic and tempera is thus given its proper place as one possibility among many others to confront death and the afterlife.

Early European interest in mummy portraits
News of the existence of mummy portraits reached Europe in the mid-17th century, when Pietro della Valle (1586-1652) published an account of his travels to Persia and India by way of Egypt. Although the two mummy portraits he acquired in Saqqara (outside Cairo) were described and depicted in the book, they were perceived as curiosities rather than works of art. Another two centuries would elapse before mummy portraits would attract a sustained level of attention in Europe.

Archaeological excavations by the British and the French early in the 19th century yielded additional portraits, but it took several extensive finds late in the century to pique the interest of scholars and connoisseurs.

In 1887, inhabitants of the area near el-Rubayat (in the Fayum) discovered and excavated numerous mummies with portraits. Purchased immediately by Theodor Graf (1840-1903), an Austrian businessman, these works were exhibited in various European cities and in New York before being sold to buyers worldwide.

In 1888-89, the noted British archaeologist W. M. Flinders Petrie (1853-1942) discovered a major Roman-period cemetery at Hawara (also in the Fayum), the burial site of many mummies with finely rendered, mainly encaustic portraits. The importance of the Hawara find cannot be overstated, as most of the mummy portraits now in the United Kingdom were discovered there by Petrie. In the 1890s, a German expedition to Hawara was mounted, and Petrie himself returned in 1911.

In the decades that followed, however, public as well as scholarly interest in mummy portraits waned. Egyptologists devoted their investigations to the art of the pharaohs, while scholars of Greek and Roman art considered the mummy portraits an expression of Egyptian art, and therefore outside their purview. With the rise of interdisciplinary studies came renewed interest in Roman Egypt, and mummy portraits have once again attracted general interest and attention.

Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid.

Lenders to the exhibition include European museums — the British Museum (London); Antikensammlung, Ägyptisches Museum und Papyrussammlung, (Berlin); Antikensammlung (Munich), and the Louvre (Paris) — and North American collections of the Brooklyn Museum, the J. Paul Getty Museum, Goucher College (Maryland), the Kelsey Museum of Ancient Archaeology (Ann Arbor), Swarthmore College (Pennsylvania), and the Royal Ontario Museum (Toronto).

An audio tour, part of the Metropolitan's new Key to the Met Audio Guide, is available for rental at the entrance to the exhibition ($5, $4.50 for members).

The Key to the Met Audio Guide program is sponsored by Bloomberg News.

Publication
The catalogue Ancient Faces: Mummy Portraits from Roman Egypt, originally published in 1997 in conjunction with the exhibition at The British Museum, has been newly revised to accompany the presentation at the Metropolitan. The updated catalogue, which has been edited by Susan Walker and expanded to include several examples in North American collections and which is also published by British Museum Press, will be available for $35 (softcover) in the Metropolitan Museum's Bookshops.

Educational Programs
A variety of education programs will be offered, including gallery talks for general visitors and classes for students.

The exhibition is organized by Dorothea Arnold, Lila Acheson Wallace Curator in Charge of Egyptian Art, and Marsha Hill, Associate Curator of Egyptian Art. Exhibition design is by Jeffrey L. Daly, Chief Designer, and Dennis Kois, Design Assistant of the Museum's Design Department.
There is truth in this you quote. But we must also acknowledge that during Greco-Roman periods, Greek and Roman practices were accepted and practiced by a wide portion of the entire population, including indigenous populations. Greco-Roman traditions were often held in high regard and were considered desirable by indigenous populations. Shuenemann et al. notes this in the aforementioned study we've discussed here. It's quotes as such:

"On the one hand, the interpretation of literary and archaeological sources is often complicated by selective representation and preservation and the fact that markers of foreign identity, such as, for example, Greek or Latin names and ethnics, quickly became ‘status symbols’ and were adopted by natives and foreigners alike"

In the information you quoted above, we can see that Greco-Roman mummy portraits were popular all over Egypt and not just with particular Greco-Romans found in Fayum:

"Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid."

So although a Greco-Roman portrait could indeed be indicative of a Greco-Roman grave, it's not exclusive to this and could also be indicative of an indigenous Egyptian grave, possibly an upper class person, but probably not pharaonic royals.

[Isleño]

Assad is lighter than the average Syrian as is the king of Jordan. And many north Africans have nowdays mixed with French colonialists or are descended from the slave european women that ended up in the slave markets there. Tripoli used to be a major slavery hub during the Ottoman era.
Be that as it may, we can see that ancient Levantines were less SSA admixed than modern Levantine populations, which could lead to the darker Levantines we see today. Shuenemann et al. notes the addition of SSA in modern Levantine populations:

https://preview.ibb.co/hX4fhv/IMG_0324.png


As for North Africans, that is true. But we are talking about a time before French or other Europeans appeared in North Africa or any slave markets of the Trans-Saharan slave trade were created. The light coloring of the "Libyan" North African and the "Asiatic" were present in ancient Egyptian times enough to be present on this:

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/race1.jpg

[wvwvw]

There is truth in this you quote. But we must also acknowledge that during Greco-Roman periods, Greek and Roman practices were accepted and practiced by a wide portion of the entire population, including indigenous populations. Greco-Roman traditions were often held in high regard and were considered desirable by indigenous populations. Shuenemann et al. notes this in the aforementioned study we've discussed here. It's quotes as such:

"On the one hand, the interpretation of literary and archaeological sources is often complicated by selective representation and preservation and the fact that markers of foreign identity, such as, for example, Greek or Latin names and ethnics, quickly became ‘status symbols’ and were adopted by natives and foreigners alike"

In the information you quoted above, we can see that Greco-Roman mummy portraits were popular all over Egypt and not just with particular Greco-Romans found in Fayum:

"Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid."

So although a Greco-Roman portrait could indeed be indicative of a Greco-Roman grave, it's not exclusive to this and could also be indicative of an indigenous Egyptian grave, possibly an upper class person, but probably not pharaonic royals.

They only way they adopted Greek or Roman names were if they were related to Greeks or Romans via marriage or if they were partially Greek or Roman.

[wvwvw]

Greek and Roman practices were accepted and practiced by a wide portion of the entire population, including indigenous populations. Greco-Roman traditions were often held in high regard and were considered desirable by indigenous populations. Shuenemann et al. notes this in the aforementioned study we've discussed here. It's quotes as such:

The Egyptians, Jews and other ethnics were distinguished by their different customs, and by worshipping their Gods by different names, they often despised Greek and Roman customs.

[Isleño]

Yes. Maybe the early dynasty of Egyptians were Blacks since nobody have genetically sequenced their results.

You honestly think the early Egyptians were black?

Look at the old kingdom statues

Prince Hemiunu

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/3853381401_407e129f81.jpg

High priest Ranofer

https://www.oneonta.edu/faculty/farberas/arth/images/109images/egyptian/ranofer_head.jpg

Pharoah Khafre

https://www.almendron.com/artehistoria/wp-content/uploads/egipto-fig-28.jpg

Prince Rahotep and Princess Nofret

https://ka-perseus-images.s3.amazonaws.com/d5afd37748fff7ca45853aa527e93207e4105fe7.jpg

The seated scribe

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/37/b0/0c/37b00c0b5439f5b46b86d51d6c4199c2.jpg

Pharaoh Menkaure and his queen Kha-Merer-Nebu II

http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-26-109.png

[Isleño]

They only way they adopted Greek or Roman names were if they were related to Greeks or Romans via marriage or if they were partially Greek or Roman.

Post evidence of this.

[Isleño]

The Egyptians, Jews and other ethnics were distinguished by their different customs, and by worshipping their Gods by different names, they often despised Greek and Roman customs.

Some, not all. I posted evidence of this.

[wvwvw]

So although a Greco-Roman portrait could indeed be indicative of a Greco-Roman grave, it's not exclusive to this and could also be indicative of an indigenous Egyptian grave, possibly an upper class person, but probably not pharaonic royals.

That's unsubstantiated bullshit of course. The Fayum portraits were not the norm as some try to present them.

[wvwvw]

Some, not all. I posted evidence of this.

My evidence is the countless historians what was your evidence?

[Isleño]

That's unsubstantiated bullshit of course. The Fayum portraits were not the norm as some try to present them.

You can always post evidence to support this claim.

[wvwvw]

You can always post evidence to support this claim.

I don't have to prove I am not an elephant.

[Isleño]

My evidence is the countless historians what was your evidence?

Post the quotes that say ONLY they can take on Greco-traditions if they were related by marriage or by blood. Unless you have these quotes that say ONLY, it's speculation.

[Kamal900]

You honestly think the early Egyptians were black?

...

Yes, I do. I think they might have been very similar to horners than anything.

[Isleño]

I don't have to prove I am not an elephant.
Well if you are going to present something as fact, you should produce evidence when asked about it. Otherwise, it's speculation and you should denote that it's speculation.

[Isleño]

Yes, I do. I think they might have been very similar to horners than anything.

So you admit to believing that the study you posted, you believe they were not indigenous Egyptians? What makes you change your mind?

[Isleño]

Yes, I do. I think they might have been very similar to horners than anything.

So you think the statues I posted from the old kingdom look more like East Africans than modern Egyptians?

[Kamal900]

So you admit to believing that the study you posted, you believe they were not indigenous Egyptians? What makes you change your mind?

We can't say because the sampling size is very small and its much later period. We need to sequence the early dynasty and the neolithic cultures of Egypt like the Naqatta culture and etc to know exactly what they were.

[Isleño]

Yes, I do. I think they might have been very similar to horners than anything.

You think this old kingdom Egyptian was black?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg/1200px-%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg

You have done a 180 degree turn and are going against what you posted in earlier threads.

[Kamal900]

You think this old kingdom Egyptian was black?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg/1200px-%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg

You have done a 180 degree turn and are going against what you posted in earlier threads.

Again, it's not representatives to claim that these busts are how the Egyptians look like in general or originally. They could have been very similar to Somalis or the 7abesh or east Africa. Anyway, fuck Egypt right in the fucking ass.

[Isleño]

We can't say because the sampling size is very small and its much later period. We need to sequence the early dynasty and the neolithic cultures of Egypt like the Naqatta culture and etc to know exactly what they were.
Yes of course I agree. But all 93 mummies tested in Shuenemann et al.? Also, what about the Gedmatch ancient Egyptian scores? Just coincidence that every Gedmatch and every Shuenemann sample gave the same result? Every last one is a Greco-Roman? And not like this Old Kingdom mummy:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg/1200px-%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg

[Isleño]

Again, it's not representatives to claim that these busts are how the Egyptians look like in general or originally. They could have been very similar to Somalis or the 7abesh or east Africa. Anyway, fuck Egypt right in the fucking ass.

So you think a black Egyptian created a bust of a non-black person to represent a black Egyptian?

[Kamal900]

So you think a black Egyptian created a bust of a non-black person to represent a black Egyptian?

Can't say but we need to sequence more mummies from the early days of Egypt to find out for sure.

[Isleño]

Again, it's not representatives to claim that these busts are how the Egyptians look like in general or originally. They could have been very similar to Somalis or the 7abesh or east Africa. Anyway, fuck Egypt right in the fucking ass.

You think this Old Kingdom mummy bust looks more like an East African than a modern Egyptian, such as a Copt?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/37/b0/0c/37b00c0b5439f5b46b86d51d6c4199c2.jpg

[wvwvw]

Post the quotes that say ONLY they can take on Greco-traditions if they were related by marriage or by blood. Unless you have these quotes that say ONLY, it's speculation.

Go and read Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel. A Hellenist was one who worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names and that and only that. Only those who were of Greek decent worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names since the Greek religion was one of Ancestor Worship and the Gods were their ancestors. The Jews worshiped their own Gods such as Elyon, El and Jehovah by their Hebrew/Phoenician names, and the Egyptians their own Gods such as Ra and Thoth by their Egyptian names. No one worshiped anyone else's Gods by anyone else's names unless these people were descended from people who were married to Greeks. Instead they associated them with their own Gods, and worshiped them by their own names. All of Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel supports what I have said.

The Egyptians stubbornly refused to abandon their supertitions and even derided people who did not follow their customs. They never adopted Greek or Roman customs unless they were related to them.

[Isleño]

Can't say but we need to sequence more mummies from the early days of Egypt to find out for sure.

Of course, but to just believe in speculation is crazy. Especially after you've been on a mission as of lately to prove the Ancient Egyptians were not black. You seem to be having second thought. Have you been letting afrocentrists get to you? The Shuenemann study showed continuity through the New Kingdom through the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The New Kingdom was before Greco-Roman immigration. Surely you understand what this means right?

[Isleño]

Go and read Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel. A Hellenist was one who worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names and that and only that. Only those who were of Greek decent worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names since the Greek religion was one of Ancestor Worship and the Gods were their ancestors. The Jews worshiped their own Gods such as Elyon, El and Jehovah by their Hebrew/Phoenician names, and the Egyptians their own Gods such as Ra and Thoth by their Egyptian names. No one worshiped anyone else's Gods by anyone else's names unless these people were descended from people who were married to Greeks. Instead they associated them with their own Gods, and worshiped them by their own names. All of Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel supports what I have said.
Post the quote. Otherwise we can only assume it's speculation.

[Kamal900]

Of course, but to just believe in speculation is crazy. Especially after you've been on a mission as of lately to prove the Ancient Egyptians were not black. You seem to be having second thought. Have you been letting afrocentrists get to you? The Shuenemann study showed continuity through the New Kingdom through the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The New Kingdom was before Greco-Roman immigration. Surely you understand what this means right?

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

[Isleño]

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.But that's just speculation.

"Ancient Egyptians as a whole generally exhibit intermediate body breadths relative to higher and lower latitude populations, with Lower Egyptians possessing wider body breadths, as well as lower brachial and crural indices, compared to Upper Egyptians and Upper Nubians. This may suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. These results may also reflect the greater plasticity of limb length compared to body breadth.

... It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes.It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes. The present studys stature estimates (bolded) are about 1-3 cm less than that of other studies for the same time periods, with an average 1.5 cm difference. New Kingdom pharaoh males may have been taller because of their higher status, however Robins and Shute (1983) used Trotter and Glesers (1958) equations for American Blacks to estimate their statures is the mean using regression formulae for the femur). Raxter et al. (2008) showed that although ancient Egyptians proportions are closer to American Blacks than they are to American Whites, they are not identical. Stature regression equations derived from American Black populations may therefore not be appropriate to estimate the statures of ancient Egyptians.

...The fact that limb proportions in ancient Egyptians are somewhat more “tropical” may reflect the greater lability of limb length compared to body breadth. The results may also suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups and have retained those body breadths acquired earlier in time, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. The present results for bi-iliac breadth are also consistent with various genetic studies that have found modern Egyptians to have close affinities to Middle and Near Easterners (Manni et al., 2002; Arredi et al., 2004; Shepard and Herrera, 2006; Rowold et al., 2007) and Southern Europeans/Mediterranean groups (Capelli et al., 2006). Some of these authors suggested their results may have been associated with a diffusion from the Near East during the expansion of early food-producing societies (Arredi et al., 2004; Rowold et al., 2007)....MK, NK, and Roman-Byzantine Nubian males exhibit greater stature variation than their Egyptian counterparts from the same periods, with Nubian males possessing more variation compared to Nubian females. The greater variation in Nubian males may be indicative of greater in-migration of and intermarriage with foreign males. (Raxter; 2011)

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4500&context=etd

[Isleño]

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.This is what Mathilda had to say on the subject of limb proportions (Ancient Egyptian matches modern Egyptian):

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/limb-length-in-ancient-and-modern-egyptians-compared/

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

There is truth in this you quote. But we must also acknowledge that during Greco-Roman periods, Greek and Roman practices were accepted and practiced by a wide portion of the entire population, including indigenous populations. Greco-Roman traditions were often held in high regard and were considered desirable by indigenous populations. Shuenemann et al. notes this in the aforementioned study we've discussed here. It's quotes as such:

"On the one hand, the interpretation of literary and archaeological sources is often complicated by selective representation and preservation and the fact that markers of foreign identity, such as, for example, Greek or Latin names and ethnics, quickly became ‘status symbols’ and were adopted by natives and foreigners alike"

In the information you quoted above, we can see that Greco-Roman mummy portraits were popular all over Egypt and not just with particular Greco-Romans found in Fayum:

"Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid."


So although a Greco-Roman portrait could indeed be indicative of a Greco-Roman grave, it's not exclusive to this and could also be indicative of an indigenous Egyptian grave, possibly an upper class person, but probably not pharaonic royals.

Uh clearly they arent egyptians. Those are greeks and romans. You are being rediculous. In fact you are giving egyptians credit where its something a greek or roman did. those potraits arent native Egyptian. Those are roman greek, the tradition and art style is like that too. None of the pre greek/roman occupation era of ancient egyptian wall paintings are done in similar manner. Use common sense man. You are better than that

Post some fayum roman pictures of them in traditional egyptian pharaonic attire. with them holding a Egyptian scepter.
but instead you find them in roman garbs and greek wreaths.
https://thegoodcatanddog.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/pharaoh-t12459.jpg

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

You think this old kingdom Egyptian was black?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg/1200px-%C3%84gyptisches_Museum_Kairo_2016-03-29_Nofret_03.jpg

You have done a 180 degree turn and are going against what you posted in earlier threads.

Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned

[Smeagol]

Those are greek paintings of greeks/romans ruling Egypt. Look at the paintings art style for goodness sakes. But your wiki link even tells us this

No they weren't. Check you own source:

Under Greco-Roman rule, Egypt hosted several Greek settlements, mostly concentrated in Alexandria, but also in a few other cities, where Greek settlers lived alongside some seven to ten million native Egyptians.[10] Faiyum's earliest Greek inhabitants were soldier-veterans and cleruchs (elite military officials) who were settled by the Ptolemaic kings on reclaimed lands.[11][12] Native Egyptians also came to settle in Faiyum from all over the country, notably the Nile Delta, Upper Egypt, Oxyrhynchus and Memphis, to undertake the labor involved in the land reclamation process, as attested by personal names, local cults and recovered papyri.[13] It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians.[14]

The portraits represent native Egyptians, some of whom had adopted Greek or Latin names, then seen as ‘status symbols’.[15][16][17][18] Victor J. Katz notes that "most modern studies conclude that the Greek & Egyptian communities coexisted with little mutual influence".[19] Anthony Lowsted has written extensively on the scope of Apartheid that separated the 2 communities during the Hellenistic, Roman & Byzantine period.[20]

[Kamal900]

No they weren't. Check you own source:

Yes, they were Egyptians despite that they were Romanized culture with a mixture of Greek and Egyptian cultures.

[Kamal900]

Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned

Stop being so delusional. She looks very Egyptian Caucasoid.

[Smeagol]

Yes, they were Egyptians despite that they were Romanized culture with a mixture of Greek and Egyptian cultures.

Yeah, also the dental morphology of the Fayum mummies was compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations. (Irish JD (2006). "Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples.". Am J Phys Anthropol 129 (4): 529-43)

So yeah anyone claiming they were Greeks or Romans is wrong.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

No they weren't. Check you own source:

Then why are the clothes in roman and greek garbs wearing greek wreaths?

Who are the identity of these people portrayed? How do you confirm they are in fact Egyptians. And not Mixed with roman/ greeks or just roman greeks involved in some of their local customs?

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Stop being so delusional. She looks very Egyptian Caucasoid.

no she doesnt. It looks mixed

this is caucasian

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/3261.jpg?v=1485680956

not this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/37/b0/0c/37b00c0b5439f5b46b86d51d6c4199c2.jpg

[Smeagol]

Then why are the clothes in roman and greek garbs wearing greek wreaths?

Because Greek culture was spread far beyond Greece's borders even as far as India.


Who are the identity of these people portrayed? How do you confirm they are in fact Egyptians. And not Mixed with roman/ greeks or just roman greeks involved in some of their local customs?

Already posted evidence for this. Dental morphology studies for one.

[Smeagol]

no she doesnt. It looks mixed

this is caucasian

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/3261.jpg?v=1485680956

not this
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/37/b0/0c/37b00c0b5439f5b46b86d51d6c4199c2.jpg


Nope. This is Caucasian too. Zero negroid traits.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Nope. This is Caucasian too. Zero negroid traits.

Yes tamil people must be caucasians too lol. They arent. He isnt caucasian. Hes just not bantu. But hes east african mixed. Horners are mixed with ssa but they dont have bantu ancestry and their natufian ancestry generally makes them look more caucasian compared to other ssa groups. But they arent caucasians really. They are mixed and have some of their own unique genes / phenotype. Plus they have several hundred and thousand years of them selectively picking mates with certain phenotypes. Even though they are ssa mixed. But it is not caucasian you can tell by looking at it. Look at the head shape. And forehead. Look at the fulani woddabi. Are you going to tell me this fulani is caucasian too? Lol just because they are mixed and dont look like the rest of west africans? You will but many are mixed with west africans. Including these. They look more caucasian shapes than that egyptian statue
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170709/1c0b6e5aa94f289fa26ae73fb1babb5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170709/406906c1b937996810642426e32be187.jpg
I bet you consider modern egyptians caucasoid. Lol. Even though you awknowledge their bantu ssa ancestry

[Isleño]

Uh clearly they arent egyptians. Those are greeks and romans. You are being rediculous. In fact you are giving egyptians credit where its something a greek or roman did. those potraits arent native Egyptian. Those are roman greek, the tradition and art style is like that too. None of the pre greek/roman occupation era of ancient egyptian wall paintings are done in similar manner. Use common sense man. You are better than that

Post some fayum roman pictures of them in traditional egyptian pharaonic attire. with them holding a Egyptian scepter.
but instead you find them in roman garbs and greek wreaths.
https://thegoodcatanddog.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/pharaoh-t12459.jpgIt was mentioned in the Shuenemann study that often Egyptians adopted Greco-Roman culture, as it was desired by some. I'm not saying all Fayum portraits are Egyptian, however there may be some that were indeed Egyptians. Unless we have DNA evidence linking a mummy to a portrait, it's all just speculation for any argument. I think we are straying off track speculating from busts and portraits. We should stick to DNA. As of the latest results on Egyptian mummies Shuenemann et al. 2017, the results are of Near Eastern origin. However, there is between 6%-15% SSA in these individuals, only 8% less SSA as modern Egyptians. So it seems they are very close to modern Egyptians genetically, which would hint at genetic continuity. If we understand that the oldest mummy tested was from the New Kingdom, before Greco-Roman settlement, we should realize this person was indeed an Egyptian. There is genetic continuity through the New Kingdom into the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The Shuenemann study and team quoted there was found to be no evidence of foreign admixture in the three genome-wide mummies tested.

In fact, here is the list of all the mummies tested for mtDNA for which nearly all of them had Eurasian mtDNA, including the oldest mummy from 1388 BC, from before Greco-Roman immigrantion:

https://images.nature.com/full/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/extref/ncomms15694-s1.xlsx

[Isleño]

Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned
Princess Nofret looks to me like any modern Egyptian today. I wouldn't say mulatto nor quadroon, although probably similar to the 6%-15% SSA admixed Caucasoid mummies of Abusir El Meleq, per the Shuenemann study. I'd say probably genetically similar to modern Egyptians. But again, although we've all participated in speculation from images, we should really stay away from speculation using busts and portraits, DNA is far more reliable.

[Lucas]

We Waz Kangz or Shit? :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4618596/Scientists-reconstruct-head-ancient-mummy.html

Big blow for anthrocentrists:)

http://i.imgur.com/FCtjxSe.png
http://i.imgur.com/vtM3Fzs.png




The face of Nebiri revealed: Scientists reconstruct the head of the ancient Egyptian 'Chief of Stables', 3,500 years after he died of heart failure

A 3,500-year-old noble Egyptian called Nebiri has been brought back to life through modern forensics.

Scientists have reconstructed the face of the ancient mummy, and discovered he had a prominent nose, wide jaw, straight eyebrows and moderately thick lips.

In the process they have also discovered an unusual embalming treatment used by ancient Egyptians, in which linen was packed into the head cavity to maintain its structure.

Nebiri is thought to have been a member of the Egyptian elite who served as the Chief of the Stables, looking after royal horses, during the reign of Thutmoses III, a pharaoh from the 18th Dynasty of ancient Egypt.

His remains were discovered in the Valley of the Queens in Luxor in 1904, but as the tomb has been plundered, just his head and jars containing his organs remained.

Researchers from the University of Turin have now used a range of facial reconstruction techniques to produce an impressive facial approximation.

To reconstruct his face, the researchers used a mixture of computer modelling and anthropological research.

The team then used a computer programme to start to build up a picture of the Egyptian’s face.

Because we researchers know the thickness of soft tissue for man of his age, they can then create depth marker so that they know what the distance should be between the bone and skin.

The researchers then used the depth pegs to work out where the muscle tissue would have been placed.


Speaking to Live Science, Raffaella Bianucci, who led the study, said: 'He was between 45 [and] 60 years old when he died.

'His tomb in the Valley of the Queens was plundered in antiquity and his body deliberately destroyed.'

The reconstruction suggests that Nebiri was a man with a large nose, wide jaw, thick lips and straight eyebrows.

Philippe Charlier, a forensic pathologist and physical anthropologist at the University of Paris 5, said: 'The reconstruction is nice, but this is not just art in my eyes.

'It is a serious forensic work based on the latest techniques of facial reconstruction and soft tissues over skull superposition.
'Beyond beauty, there is anatomical reality.'

The scans also reveal that Nebiri's mummified head was packaged in a unique way, using linens that had been treated with a complex mix of animal fats or plant oil, an aromatic plant, and two types of resin.

[Rethel]

Much more interesting would be au of those from Early Dynastic Period from the
people, and hgs of all possible kings regardless epoche, but the older, the better.

1500 BC is not bad, but it is quite late - just when Indoeuropeans were pharaos
and after hundrets of years of semitic, canaanic and hurrian migrations there.

[Kamal900]

Why the Gedmatch kits for these three Egyptian samples were removed from Gedmatch?

[Bobby Martnen]

Here are their Eurogenes K15 and Dodecad K12b.

One of the three goes in the direction of Ashkenazim, Sicilians, etc. The other two are more like a mixture of modern Egyptians and Levantines.


Here's an average
East Med: 41.50
Red Sea: 22.27
West Med: 16.18
Atlantic: 6.40
Northeast African: 5.31
Sub Saharan: 2.44
South Asian: 2.02
Baltic: 1.64
West Asian: 1.16
Southeast Asian: 1.06
Amerindian: 0.02

On the K15 plot: (731, 695)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72289&d=1518236183

Significantly closer to Europe than modern Egyptians, which supports my theory that they have a lot of Arabian admixture.

[Bobby Martnen]

So that gladiator from York was probably Egyptian, as his results are very similar to these Egyptians.

That gladiator is intermediate between modern Copts and modern Samaritans, which was confusing.

But now it turns out, that ancient Egyptians were also intermediate between Copts and Samaritans.

@Peterski do you have any Coptic Gedmatches?

[Bobby Martnen]

bahahaha...ok, to me she reminds me of Michelle Obama, and Tut himself looked like Malia Obama

http://i1.wp.com/revelationnow.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Malia_Obama.jpg?resize=640%2C300

Malia Obama is at least 25% European (and probably closer to 35%, given that the average Black American with roots in slavery is ~20% White) and has a mostly Caucasoid nose.

[Kamal900]

Here's an average
East Med: 41.50
Red Sea: 22.27
West Med: 16.18
Atlantic: 6.40
Northeast African: 5.31
Sub Saharan: 2.44
South Asian: 2.02
Baltic: 1.64
West Asian: 1.16
Southeast Asian: 1.06
Amerindian: 0.02

On the K15 plot: (731, 695)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=72289&d=1518236183

Significantly closer to Europe than modern Egyptians, which supports my theory that they have a lot of Arabian admixture.

Not really. If anything really, the ancient Egyptian cluster more closer to my people than to Europeans. The ancient Egyptian is from the Roman period of Egypt, and the sample(Egyptian3) is more closer to me and my cousin than to other Egyptians including the ancient Egyptians from the new kingdom(Egyptian1, Egyptian2):
https://s5.postimg.org/h78k02eqv/mccree900_mummy.png

[Dragoon]

Wouldnt it make sense that Ancient Egyptians were of various colors, like depicted on some the texts?

light-red-brown: Egyptians
somewhat light skinned: Levantines/Caanites
black: Nubians like those of Sudan.
fair skin: Libyans?

The Empire was stretched more too no?

[Dragoon]

Yes tamil people must be caucasians too lol. They arent. He isnt caucasian. Hes just not bantu. But hes east african mixed. Horners are mixed with ssa but they dont have bantu ancestry and their natufian ancestry generally makes them look more caucasian compared to other ssa groups. But they arent caucasians really. They are mixed and have some of their own unique genes / phenotype. Plus they have several hundred and thousand years of them selectively picking mates with certain phenotypes. Even though they are ssa mixed. But it is not caucasian you can tell by looking at it. Look at the head shape. And forehead. Look at the fulani woddabi. Are you going to tell me this fulani is caucasian too? Lol just because they are mixed and dont look like the rest of west africans? You will but many are mixed with west africans. Including these. They look more caucasian shapes than that egyptian statue
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170709/1c0b6e5aa94f289fa26ae73fb1babb5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170709/406906c1b937996810642426e32be187.jpg
I bet you consider modern egyptians caucasoid. Lol. Even though you awknowledge their bantu ssa ancestry

Do you know what Caucasoid means? It does not mean Europeans only.

For many its Europeans, Arabs, Jews, Berbers, Ethopians, Iranians, Indians.

[Mingle]

Not really. If anything really, the ancient Egyptian cluster more closer to my people than to Europeans. The ancient Egyptian is from the Roman period of Egypt, and the sample(Egyptian3) is more closer to me and my cousin than to other Egyptians including the ancient Egyptians from the new kingdom(Egyptian1, Egyptian2):
https://s5.postimg.org/h78k02eqv/mccree900_mummy.png

He didn't mean that Europeans were their closest match, but that ancient Egyptians were more European-shifted than modern Egyptians are i.e. ancient Egyptians were further north.

[Bobby Martnen]

Assad is lighter than the average Syrian as is the king of Jordan. And many north Africans have nowdays mixed with French colonialists or are descended from the slave european women that ended up in the slave markets there. Tripoli used to be a major slavery hub during the Ottoman era.

The King of Jordan is 50% English

[Kamal900]

He didn't mean that Europeans were their closest match, but that ancient Egyptians were more European-shifted than modern Egyptians are i.e. ancient Egyptians were further north.

Yes, indeed. The ancient Egyptians were less SSA admixed than the modern ones, but the ancient sample from the Roman period is more levantine shifted than the other two samples from the new kingdom which suggests that there had been gradual admixture between Egyptians and their Levantine neighbors, but not much.

[Bobby Martnen]

Not really. If anything really, the ancient Egyptian cluster more closer to my people than to Europeans. The ancient Egyptian is from the Roman period of Egypt, and the sample(Egyptian3) is more closer to me and my cousin than to other Egyptians including the ancient Egyptians from the new kingdom(Egyptian1, Egyptian2):


The Ancient Egyptian dot on the map I posted is the average of all three Ancient Egyptians

[Kamal900]

The Ancient Egyptian dot on the map I posted is the average of all three Ancient Egyptians

If that's the case then it kinda makes sense considering that the ancient Egyptian's SSA admixture is lower than their Muslim descedants. The average SSA admixture among Palestinians is around 8.5% while the average SSA on modern day Egyptians is between 17 to 22%, but regardless, the modern day Egyptians including Muslims and Copts cluster the closest to the Levant and the middle east as a whole rather than to North Africans and other peoples outside the middle east:


At the genome-wide level, Egypt is quite similar to its Levantine neighbours, displaying a mainly Near Eastern (39.8%) and Arabian/North African (30.5%) background, with slightly higher western (5.6%) and eastern (15.1%) African proportions, and lower European (8.4%) and South Asian (0.6%) proportions. The ROLLOFF estimate for admixture in Egypt (using Africans and Europeans as ancestral populations) was 30 generations, predictably young due to continuous gene flow between the two regions. Morocco and Tunisia presented similar western (9.8–12.2%) and eastern African (10.4–12.1%) components and roughly twice the magnitude for each of the European (22.8–25.5%), Near Eastern (21.4–26.0%) and Arabian (28.9–31.0%) pools. Again these young dates show that simple genome-wide dating approaches based on linkage disequilibrium decay must be applied cautiously in complex scenarios of several migrations occurring over a long span of time, such as the ones which took place across the Red Sea, North Africa [56] and Iberia [57].
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?209472-Genetic-Stratigraphy-of-Key-Demographic-Events-in-Arabia

[Böri]

Send me its GEDmatch ID?

They're closer to Sicilians, Cretans, Dodecanese than to Turks. Interesting.

Old Greek got civilization from Levantines and Egyptians, Turks didn't. So it's not so surprising. Turks have their genes, state, culture, language comin from Farthest Asia. Roman culture has more MENA roots.

[Bobby Martnen]

If that's the case then it kinda makes sense considering that the ancient Egyptian's SSA admixture is lower than their Muslim descedants. The average SSA admixture among Palestinians is around 8.5% while the average SSA on modern day Egyptians is between 17 to 22%, but regardless, the modern day Egyptians including Muslims and Copts cluster the closest to the Levant and the middle east as a whole rather than to North Africans and other peoples outside the middle east:

Do you have any Coptic GEDmatches? I suspect they'll plot closer to Europe than Muslims (lack of Arabian admixture), but I'd like to confirm it

[Isleño]

Did you see the result from the 2018 study on the mummy head of Governor Djehutynakht from the 11th Dynasty, Middle Kingdom (2010 BC) found in Middle Egypt? He had mtDNA U5b2b5, West Eurasian origin. He is from the time before all the foreigners started arriving. This is from the study:

“The mtGenome profile independently obtained from the tooth by the FBI and HMS laboratories were identical and can be found in Table S2. The haplotype (deposited in GenBank under accession number MG736653) belongs to mitochondrial DNA lineage U5b2b5, but the specific sequence has not been previously reported in the 35,942 mtGenomes stored in the NCBI GenBank database (as of October 2017). The sequence closest to the mummy’s belongs to a contemporary individual from Lebanon (KT779192 [67]); however, the two haplotypes still differ at five positions, three of them in the control region (CR). A comparison between the mummy CR and the 26,127 CR sequences from the EMPOP database produced no match.”

And the authors go on to align Djehutynakht with one of the mummies tested at Abusir as being the closest among tested mummies:

“The Djehutynakht sequence was also compared to available ancient human DNA sequences (Table S4). Not surprisingly, no direct matches to the Djehutynakht sequence have been reported. However, related U5b2b sequences have been observed in ancient human remains from Europe, and a haplogroup U5b2c1 haplotype was recently discovered in 2000-year-old remains from Phoenicia [67]. When only the mtDNA sequences recovered from ancient Egyptian human remains are considered, the Djehutynakht sequence most closely resembles a U5a lineage from sample JK2903, a 2000-year-old skeleton from Abusir el-Meleq [74].”

http://http://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/pdf


Or a recent study of two brothers from 12th Dynasty Upper Egypt that have a West Eurasian haplogroup with a local Africanized mutation, haplogroup M1a1:

“Analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms showed that both Nakht-Ankh and Khnum-Nakht belonged to mitochondrial haplotype M1a1, suggesting a maternal relationship.”

Here’s a pic of the mummy mask of one of the brothers Nakht-Ankh:

http://https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X17305631

http://www.ancient-egypt.co.uk/manchester/images/manchester_museum_1036.jpg

One of the three genome-wide tested mummies of Abusir had M1a1 mtDNA, and was found to be old West Eurasian ancestry:

JK2911
Pre-Ptolemaic 769BC-560BC

Y-chromosome - J2b1-PF7314
X-chromosome - M1a1

[Leto]

Do you have any Coptic GEDmatches? I suspect they'll plot closer to Europe than Muslims (lack of Arabian admixture), but I'd like to confirm it
M735006 Copt

[Bobby Martnen]

M735006 Copt

Thanks. Closer to Ancient Egyptians than Moslem Egyptians are.

[Leto]

Thanks. Closer to Ancient Egyptians than Moslem Egyptians are.
Obviously. The Muslims have extra African and Arabian input.

[Leto]

This Egyptian anti-Islamist is among the lightest Egyptians I can think of
https://hpd.de/sites/hpd.de/files/styles/head_crop_autoreuse/public/field/image/hamed_abdel_samad_quer.jpg

[Bobby Martnen]

Obviously. The Muslims have extra African and Arabian input.

Which is why I say Copts are the true Egyptians.

[Bobby Martnen]

This Egyptian anti-Islamist is among the lightest Egyptians I can think of


Is he Coptic?

[Leto]

Is he Coptic?
No, but he left Islam and now criticizes it for which Muzzies send him death threats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamed_Abdel-Samad

[Bobby Martnen]

No, but he left Islam and now criticizes it for which Muzzies send him death threats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamed_Abdel-Samad

That seems to be a fairly common trait in Muslims.

[Kamal900]

Thanks. Closer to Ancient Egyptians than Moslem Egyptians are.

Not exactly. The people today that cluster the closest to the ancient Egyptians are Yemenite Jews, a people who are of Arabian ancestry with small amount of SSA admixture in them. Egyptian Muslims are more admixed to Arabians and SSA than the Copts are, but at the same time, they're not that different since they cluster very closely with Palestinians, Bedouins and other South-West Asiatics than to Europeans or Blacks as a whole.

MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 34.14
2 Near_East 26.64
3 North_African 16.83
4 European_Early_Farmers 9.99
5 East_African 9.13
6 Archaic_African 1.90


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ @ 5.362785
2 Egyptian_Mansoura_ @ 6.013190
3 Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 6.046615
4 Egyptian_Kairo_ @ 7.610114
5 Egyptian_Cairo_ @ 8.503502
6 Egyptian_Kuwait_ @ 9.436735
7 BedouinA_ @ 10.539614
8 Palestinian_ @ 11.942020
9 Jordanian_ @ 13.855069
10 Samaritian_ @ 16.730040
11 Egyptian_Iskandaria_ @ 16.948162
12 Tunisian_Jew_ @ 17.015190
13 Lebanese_ @ 17.512352
14 Syrian_ @ 17.704489
15 Muslim_Arabs_Israel_ @ 17.786228
16 Yemen_ @ 17.926384
17 Libyan_Jew_ @ 18.185209
18 Yemenite_Jew_ @ 19.059916
19 Lebanese_Muslim_ @ 19.115658
20 Lebanese_Christian_ @ 20.090094

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ +50% Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ @ 5.362785


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Egyptian_Mansoura_ +25% Tunisian_Jew_ +25% Yemenite_Jew_ @ 4.962468


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 4.779230
2 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 4.784524
3 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 4.827969
4 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 4.903878
5 Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Tunisian_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 4.960509
6 Amhara_ + Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Tunisian_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 4.961667
7 Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Tunisian_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 4.962468
8 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ @ 5.000577
9 Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Tunisian_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 5.006724
10 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kairo_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 5.027248
11 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ @ 5.042833
12 Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Libyan_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 5.045715
13 Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Libyan_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 5.052828
14 Egyptian_Mansoura_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ + Tunisian_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 5.061719
15 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kuwait_ + Egyptian_Mansoura_ @ 5.090491
16 Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Libyan_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 5.099661
17 Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ + Tunisian_Jew_ + Yemenite_Jew_ @ 5.110786
18 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Kairo_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 5.176159
19 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kairo_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 5.184762
20 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ + Egyptian_Kafar_Sheikh_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ + Egyptian_Tanta_ @ 5.190284

puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Asia 38.20
2 SW_Europe 26.19
3 West_Asia 24.49
4 East_Africa 9.62
5 NE_Asia 1.04


Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Egyptian_Copts @ 2.471854
2 Egyptian @ 10.788684
3 Yemeni @ 12.149620
4 Palestinian @ 12.501148
5 Jordanian @ 14.282022
6 Saudi @ 15.716351
7 Samaritan_Jew @ 15.957695
8 Syrian @ 19.589098
9 Lebanese_Christian @ 19.866776
10 Lebanese_Muslim @ 20.427830
11 Lebanese_Druze @ 20.955204
12 Bedouin @ 22.369261
13 Tunisian @ 23.229233
14 Moroccan @ 24.113819
15 Cypriot @ 24.743639
16 Algerian @ 25.674477
17 Sephardic_Jew @ 26.997372
18 Assyrian @ 27.342606
19 Saharawi @ 28.572121
20 Turkish_Kayseri @ 29.249922

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Egyptian_Copts +50% Egyptian_Copts @ 2.471854


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Egyptian_Copts +25% Egyptian_Copts +25% Egyptian_Copts @ 2.471854


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts @ 2.471854
2 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Yemeni @ 3.076745
3 Egyptian + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts @ 3.345856
4 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Saudi @ 3.661654
5 Egyptian + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Saudi @ 3.832236
6 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Palestinian @ 4.222434
7 Egyptian_Copts + Samaritan_Jew + Samaritan_Jew + Tigray @ 4.248385
8 Egyptian + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Yemeni @ 4.634551
9 Amhara + Egyptian_Copts + Samaritan_Jew + Samaritan_Jew @ 4.733138
10 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Jordanian @ 4.756004
11 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Jordanian + Saudi @ 4.918110
12 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Palestinian + Saudi @ 4.989978
13 Bedouin + Egyptian + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts @ 5.029582
14 Bedouin + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts @ 5.236852
15 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Samaritan_Jew @ 5.261199
16 Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Saudi + Tunisian @ 5.370473
17 Egyptian + Egyptian_Copts + Egyptian_Copts + Palestinian @ 5.468468
18 Bedouin + Cypriot + Samaritan_Jew + Tigray @ 5.488426
19 Samaritan_Jew + Samaritan_Jew + Samaritan_Jew + Tigray @ 5.507242
20 Egyptian + Egyptian + Egyptian_Copts + Saudi @ 5.564562

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Egyptian_Copts + 4% Amhara @ 1.67
2 95.8% Egyptian_Copts + 4.2% Tigray @ 1.7
3 96.9% Egyptian_Copts + 3.1% Somali @ 1.72
4 96.8% Egyptian_Copts + 3.2% Oromo @ 1.74
5 97.1% Egyptian_Copts + 2.9% Wolayta @ 1.8
6 97.6% Egyptian_Copts + 2.4% Aricultivator @ 1.84
7 97.5% Egyptian_Copts + 2.5% Datog @ 1.9
8 98.4% Egyptian_Copts + 1.6% Gumuz @ 1.97
9 97.9% Egyptian_Copts + 2.1% Maasai @ 2.02
10 98.7% Egyptian_Copts + 1.3% Han_North_China @ 2.1

As you can see, the SSA admixture among Copts is still significant but not as much as their Muslim counterparts which made them shift more Southern than them.

[Kamal900]

Which is why I say Copts are the true Egyptians.

So are the Egyptian Muslims as well regardless on the fact that they're more admixed than them in terms of genetics.

[Bobby Martnen]

So are the Egyptian Muslims as well regardless on the fact that they're more admixed than them in terms of genetics.

They're not as Egyptian genetically.

[Kamal900]

They're not as Egyptian genetically.

They're not as pure, sure, but at the same time, they're not that different from them either. Again, Arabians and the ancient Egyptians are descended from the ancient Levantine populace more than 5,000 years ago before the migration of ancient pre-Iranian peoples from Iran and Anatolians to the Levant in later years which had made the Levant more shifted towards west asia than to south-west asians.

[Bobby Martnen]

They're not as pure, sure, but at the same time, they're not that different from them either. Again, Arabians and the ancient Egyptians are descended from the ancient Levantine populace more than 5,000 years ago before the migration of ancient pre-Iranian peoples from Iran and Anatolians to the Levant in later years which had made the Levant more shifted towards west asia than to south-west asians.

Also, the Copts have preserved more traditional Egyptian culture and language than the Moslem, Arab Egyptians.

(Copts speak Arabic now, but still use Coptic for religious purposes)

[Kamal900]

Also, the Copts have preserved more traditional Egyptian culture and language than the Moslem, Arab Egyptians.

(Copts speak Arabic now, but still use Coptic for religious purposes)

True. I mean, the word "Copt" back in the day used to describe the native ethnic Egyptians. Now, it refers to the local Egyptian ethno-religious group. I have a Coptic friend here who's name is Oblivion, and her paternal family's Y-DNA is J1-P58 which belongs to the same clade as Arabians which suggests that there had been Arabs who had converted and assimilated to the Coptic faith back in the day. Remember, the Coptic church isn't a closed religion to outsiders as those found among Zoroastrians, Druze, Yazidis and etc, and people who convert to the Coptic faith become Coptic themselves.

[Bobby Martnen]

True. I mean, the word "Copt" back in the day used to describe the native ethnic Egyptians. Now, it refers to the local Egyptian ethno-religious group. I have a Coptic friend here who's name is Oblivion, and her paternal family's Y-DNA is J1-P58 which belongs to the same clade as Arabians which suggests that there had been Arabs who had converted and assimilated to the Coptic faith back in the day. Remember, the Coptic church isn't a closed religion to outsiders as those found among Zoroastrians, Druze, Yazidis and etc, and people who convert to the Coptic faith become Coptic themselves.

Aren't a lot of Jews also J1-P58?

What's your Y-DNA?

[Kamal900]

Aren't a lot of Jews also J1-P58?

What's your Y-DNA?

Yeah, but the one that is found among Jews isn't the same clades as those found in Arabians.

I don't know, and I'll do the testing once I get my first salary.

[StonyArabia]

Three mummies are not well suited to study ancient Egypt as whole. However ancient Egypt was a mixed race society from the beginning.

[Kamal900]

I wish someone could reupload them or something. Such a shame that they had been deleted.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

I wish someone could reupload them or something. Such a shame that they had been deleted.

I found this post in another forum and according to me he's right:


I am rather skeptical about these remains being of pure, unadulterated Ancient Egyptians. Abusir el-Meleq is indeed a Hyksos site, plus AFAIK there's no archeological or any other evidence pointing at a pre-Canaanite/Hyksos presence in Egypt of the Iran_Neolithic component which seems to be present in the three individuals.

[Astarte]

Saying the ancient Egyptians had a lot of T1a doesn’t say much considering T1a is equally popular in most of West Eurasia(from Ireland to Iran). The T1a clades the ancient Egyptians belonged to: T1a7, T1a2, T1a5, T1a8, all are Near Eastern-specific. None of them belonged to European-SC Asian T1a1. Most of my modern T1a7 samples are from Egypt. All of my Egyptian T1a7 samples belong to an unclassified T1a7 clade, it’ll be interesting to see if these ancient Egyptians belonged to that clade.

Aaargh I wish I knew more about this subclade.

[Kelmendasi]

I found this post in another forum and according to me he's right:
Yh, J1-YSC234 in these samples suggests Hyksos/Semitic input as the origin date of this clade is in line with the development of the first Semitic language in the Levant and can thus be linked with Semitic movements. Though the E1b1b guy could've been a native, i'm not sure

[Isleño]

Yh, J1-YSC234 in these samples suggests Hyksos/Semitic input as the origin date of this clade is in line with the development of the first Semitic language in the Levant and can thus be linked with Semitic movements. Though the E1b1b guy could've been a native, i'm not sure

That subclade of J1 is 5,800 years old. The back migration to Africa from the Middle East was in its last stages during this time. That’s still before dynastic Egypt began and at the beginning of pre-dynastic Egypt. So that allowed plenty enough time for it to be a subclade found among ancient Egyptians.

[Isleño]

I found this post in another forum and according to me he's right:
Abusir El Meleq is not a Hyksos site. It was an area home to Osiris cult followers, as the Shuenemann et al. 2017 study points out. I seriously doubt the Hyksos were in an Osiris cult. As for Iran Neolithic component, well there is no other genome-wide DNA test results of any Egyptian mummy ever, so I don’t see how that assumption could be made.

These type of folks are only skeptical because the results do not correlate to their desires. People with bias and agenda are often guilty of this. These results are from three different time periods showing continuity among time periods.

In addition to this, two other DNA studies were released, one in 2017 and the other in 2018, which reveals haplogroups from tested ancient Egyptian mummies from the 11th and 12th dynasties (both of these dynasties were before any foreigners, this includes Hyksos) All three of these mummies had West Eurasian derived haplogroups, including two of them had an African adapted West Eurasian haplogroup, meaning a subclade formed inside of Africa which signals evidence of the back migration population into Africa from West Eurasia. All three of these mummies from these two studies have their haplogroups and even subclade represented among the haplogroups of the Abusir mummies, including one of the genome-wide mummies that tested as a West Eurasian.

I wouldn’t buy into those hypothetical fantasies from folks whose feelings have been hurt by modern science.

[Isleño]

I wish someone could reupload them or something. Such a shame that they had been deleted.
I know, I tried them again and they are no longer there. I wonder why were they removed.

[StonyArabia]

My DNA is T1a

[Kamal900]

I know, I tried them again and they are no longer there. I wonder why were they removed.

I don't know either. Probably because it provoked a lot of Afrocentric assholes, lol.

[Isleño]

Three mummies are not well suited to study ancient Egypt as whole. However ancient Egypt was a mixed race society from the beginning.

One could say that about remains from any country. However, these three genome-wide results are the only ones in existence so this is what we are to go by during the present time. Unless one can produce more genome-wide results, speculation doesn’t do any good.

As for what we do have other than these three genome-wide results, we have haplogroup studies. We have these 90 from Abusir El Meleq, plus three other mummies in upper egypt. That equals 93 ancient Egyptian haplogroup test results. Of these 93 total, 92 were West Eurasian and 1 was Sub-Saharan. Out of those 92 West Eurasian many of them are subclades formed inside of Africa which suggests definite back migration population evidence. The rest of the haplogroups were also present among the back migration to Africa from West Eurasia.

I think the evidence is becoming very clear that the ancient Egyptians were not black Africans of the Sub-Saharan type. As for those that think they descended from East African Horners, well that can’t be since Horners did not exist in their mulatto form of today before 3,000 years ago and Egypt is much older than 3,000 years old. If Horners were Sub-Saharan type blacks of Nilotic-Saharan origin before 3,000 years ago, it would be impossible to claim the Egyptians were Horners if all these 92 West Eurasian haplogroups collectively exist among ancient Egyptian remains, which nearly every haplogroup result uncovered thus far has been West Eurasian.

[Isleño]

I don't know either. Probably because it provoked a lot of Afrocentric assholes, lol.

Probably so. Western society is so cucked today by political correctness and liberal bullying it’s amazing the men still identify as men.

[Isleño]

My DNA is T1a
Cool, bro. Your haplogroup is found among the ancient Egyptians in various variants. My maternal haplogroup is U6b1 which is more of a native Canarian subclade, but variants of it are found among the ancient Egyptian haplogroups in similar subclades.

That’s cool though, we are related to the ancient Egyptians to an extent. I’m also a descendant of the West Eurasian back migration to Africa like the ancient Egyptians, via my Guanche admixture.

[Isleño]

True. I mean, the word "Copt" back in the day used to describe the native ethnic Egyptians. Now, it refers to the local Egyptian ethno-religious group. I have a Coptic friend here who's name is Oblivion, and her paternal family's Y-DNA is J1-P58 which belongs to the same clade as Arabians which suggests that there had been Arabs who had converted and assimilated to the Coptic faith back in the day. Remember, the Coptic church isn't a closed religion to outsiders as those found among Zoroastrians, Druze, Yazidis and etc, and people who convert to the Coptic faith become Coptic themselves.
I think it’s quite fascinating that the Copts have the ancient Egyptian language in its final stages that they use for religious purposes. Egyptians should make it an official language of Egypt and teach it in schools to try and bring it back to the Egyptian people. They have such a rich history.

[Kamal900]

I think it’s quite fascinating that the Copts have the ancient Egyptian language in its final stages that they use for religious purposes. Egyptians should make it an official language of Egypt and teach it in schools to try and bring it back to the Egyptian people. They have such a rich history.

I wish they can revive the language, lol. Want to listen more to the ancient Egyptian language.

[Gangrel]

One of these youts had the same mtdna as me right

[Egyptian]

Apparently every one is Egyptian now.
:lol:

[Isleño]

One of these youts had the same mtdna as me right
That’s because those of us with the same or similar haplogroups are related down the line. Some it’s way down the line, others it’s not that far down.

[Kamal900]

That’s because those of us with the same or similar haplogroups are related down the line. Some it’s way down the line, others it’s not that far down.

Which proves that race does exist, and anyone who denies that he either in complete denial of reality or is an idiot. The ancient Egyptians were genetically no different from their middle eastern neighbors in the Levant and Arabia.

[Isleño]

Apparently every one is Egyptian now.
:lol:
Well, ancient Egyptians were African adapted West Eurasians, so they share DNA with many similar peoples like North Africans, Middle Easterners, Anatolians and Europeans. But of course most of these are way down the line related, I would say nothing too recent. My own maternal haplogroup is North African, as I’m Canarian descent and I’m Iberian European admixed with North African, the North African being on the maternal line. I can say I’m can confidently say I’m a back migration descendant to North Africa just as the ancient Egyptians, but I’m not Egyptian at all. I’m just partially related to Egyptians down the line like any Mediterranean North African would be.

I don’t try to steal Egypt’s identity. That’s what Egypt-focused black Americans do.

[Isleño]

Which proves that race does exist, and anyone who denies that he either in complete denial of reality or is an idiot. The ancient Egyptians were genetically no different from their middle eastern neighbors in the Levant and Arabia.

Yes, race does exist. It has a biological side and a social side. Some only think it’s social, but that’s false thinking. Humans don’t look different because of a social construct only.

In my opinion based off of genetic studies including the three I named in earlier posts, (Abusir, Djehutynakht, two brothers) I think the ancient Egyptians were most genetically like Saudi Bedouins. They had similar amount of Natufian, Neolithic Iranian and Neolithic Anatolian on the Abusir study. But other Gedmatch results show them also similar to Levantines. If we consider haplogroups, there are some that have connections to the Levant, Europe and other parts,of the Middle East and Anatolia.

I know for sure they were not Sub-Saharan type Nilo-Saharan blacks because the DNA doesn’t equate nor does it equate for East Africans given the fact that East Africans didn’t become mulattoes until 3,000 years ago and were Sub-Saharan type Nilo-Saharan blacks before that. I have studies that prove this if you need some info on it.

With that said, after all that I’ve read and seen, I’m completely positive that Egyptians were similar to other West Eurasians from the Middle East, mainly the Levant and Arabia. There may be an uptick of SSA near the areas around the Nubian border, such as 30% SSA and 70% West Eurasian, but I think for the vast majority of Egypt they would be similar to the Abusir mummies.