Iran: A Lost Potential

[Gizem]

Despite the fact that it has a theocratic regime today; Iran has had a significant potential of secularism and western modernity. Even with decades of state-enforced religious dictation; a great deal of their people seem quite modern and secular-minded. Many women out there refrain from fully covering themselves. When I look at Iran; I see a regime that just does not suit them, which is not the case for other countries ruled by islamic law like Saudi Arabia. Based on my interactions with Iranian tourists; they are not religious at all, they have a huge admiration for Ataturk. This reminds me of that scene from the movie Persepolis where it is mentioned that once their Shah wanted to imitate Atatürk's reforms, starting at around the 20-second mark:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4g8SOLa0E4

But why did these attempts fail and Iran turned into this? their sect might be one factor. In Shi'a; religious leaders are revered and that's why Khomeini was able to garner popular support even though most people did not really cheer for an Islamic revolution, as can be seen in this footage where women protested the dictation of hijab. So; similar to Turkish women; Iranian women had a desire for freedom and resisted against patriarchy:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kgfyzEZo4hg/V_NBlEDGGUI/AAAAAAAALVM/FvYhwSZk94E1OT6KVBsAVdtKJRnAKzV6ACLcB/s1600/women_protesting_hijab_iran.jpg

unlike Arab women who are more grounded.

http://www.multivu.com/players/uk/7838951-celebrating-arab-women-empowerment-campaign/image/arab-veiled-woman-13-HR.jpg

Also unlike Turkey; Iran has oil resources so global powers did not just leave them alone and stirred chaos in the country which is why their democratically elected secularist patriotic leader Mosaddegh was overthrown by CIA. Since Turkey is not rich in oil; we did not draw as much attention.

Geographical location can also be a factor. Iran is at the heart of Near East (not MENA), while Turkey is at crossroads between two continents.

[EL_BARBARO]

Next station: Iran.

[TheForeigner]

They should also have stuck with the old name of Persia.

[EL_BARBARO]

They should also have stuck with the old name of Persia.



Next station: Persia.

[Fractal]

Next station: Persia.

Spaniards and Romanians are considered as white as Persians are in the USA. :rotfl:

[TheForeigner]

Next station: Persia.

Wanna visit Iran? Hear Iranian girls are often hot.

[TheForeigner]

Spaniards and Romanians are considered as white as Persians are in the USA. :rotfl:

You are as white as a brown turd floating on the Gange river.

[EL_BARBARO]

Wanna visit Iran? Hear Iranian girls are often hot.


No, I mean the international peace force.

[EL_BARBARO]

Spaniards and Romanians are considered as white as Persians are in the USA. :rotfl:


Indians are considered the shittiest people in the whole world, even in the USA. Since they're amongst all kind of migrants, they get hidden.

[TheForeigner]

No, I mean the international peace force.

What international peace force?

[Fractal]

Indians are considered the shittiest people in the whole world, even in the USA. Since they're amongst all kind of migrants, they get hidden.

And Southern Europeans are still considered as White as an Armenians or Persians ( who are just as white). :rotfl:

[EL_BARBARO]

What international peace force?


The good ones.

[EL_BARBARO]

And Southern Europeans are still considered as White as an Armenians or Persians ( who are just as white). :rotfl:


I don't give a fucking shit about "whiteness". That concept is really a concept and "value" that y'all the brown in America are willing even to kill the other.

[TheForeigner]

The good ones.

Ah, you must mean Americans might invade or bomb them.

[EL_BARBARO]

Ah, you must mean Americans might invade or bomb them.


Iranian people are looking forwards to freedom, democracy and wellfare.

[N1019]

When I look at Iran; I see a regime that just does not suit them, which is not the case for other countries ruled by islamic law like Saudi Arabia.

What makes you think the Saudis are happy about their rulers? Many of them would be happier to modernize, too, and they do it where they can.



Based on my interactions with Iranian tourists; they are not religious at all, they have a huge admiration for Ataturk. This reminds me of that scene from the movie Persepolis where it is mentioned that once their Shah wanted to imitate Atatürk's reforms, starting at around the 20-second mark:

The last Shah's father, Reza Shah, to a large degree enthusiastically followed in Ataturk's footsteps. He strove for independence, modernity, embarked on major nation building projects and tried to play off Britain, Russia and Germany against each other for Iran's benefit. For that and for refusing to submit, he was removed by the British and exiled to Mauritius, replaced by his son whom the British never trusted.



But why did these attempts fail and Iran turned into this? their sect might be one factor. In Shi'a; religious leaders are revered and that's why Khomeini was able to garner popular support even though most people did not really cheer for an Islamic revolution, as can be seen in this footage where women protested the dictation of hijab. So; similar to Turkish women; Iranian women had a desire for freedom and resisted against patriarchy:

Persian girls are known for their feistiness, which can be kind of sexy but also makes them a handful.

In the end, the CIA/MI6 controlled revolution didn't give them a choice. The people were asked whether they wanted an Islamic Republic (Yes/No). No alternative was offered.

Looking at the Cold War situation, there was no way the West was going to back the communists, who made up a significant (although fractious) component of the revolutionary tide. They were also not going to have a republican version of the Shah's secular nationalism. So they chose the Mullahs, with whom they already had an established relationship and whom they knew would oppose communism, oppose real democracy, keep the people on a tight leash, keep the oil flowing and hopefully remain loyal to the empire. They got every wish except the last.



Also unlike Turkey; Iran has oil resources so global powers did not just leave them alone and stirred chaos in the country which is why their democratically elected secularist patriotic leader Mosaddegh was overthrown by CIA.

Mossadegh was a fool for thinking he could take on the British and emerge victorious. The Americans were right to back their plan to remove him. If they hadn't, the British may have gone to war - they certainly contemplated it, but wanted to avoid the expense. It's hard not to admire his passion for Iran, but it was never going to work. The same could be said of the Shah for his own reasons. He started off as a fragile young king but eventually became a megalomaniac who forgot he was put there by a greater power. This is the common thread. Repeated attempts to go it alone, be strong, independent, break free of foreign interference, control the Gulf and, probably, rebuild an empire of sorts. It will not be allowed to happen. The Iranians will continue to encounter extreme difficulties with the world until they can adjust their mindset, or war reduces their nation to dust. It now appears they have chosen the latter course.




Next station: Iran.

Yep

[Dominicanese]

wellp looks like the USA is gonna fuck up Iran next

then it will be lebanon, a repeat of the 6 day war but for good

iraq is done, so is libya

now iran will be done too, sadly theres gonna go another 1,000,000 dead (including women & children) all for greed and money

[Numidia]

wellp looks like the USA is gonna fuck up Iran next

then it will be lebanon, a repeat of the 6 day war but for good

iraq is done, so is libya

now iran will be done too, sadly theres gonna go another 1,000,000 dead (including women & children) all for greed and money

what make you say that ? the population of Iran must be more than 80 millions

[Dominicanese]

what make you say that ? the population of Iran must be more than 80 millions

my desire is for iran to thrive

but the US likes to fuck up other nations for global domination

[Lessenech]

The Islamic Republic is a better government than Mohammed Reza ever was. Iran is largely independent now, Mohammed Reza was subservient to the West.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

[N1019]

The Islamic Republic is a better government than Mohammed Reza ever was. Iran is largely independent now, Mohammed Reza was subservient to the West.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

How is the current government better than the Shah? List all the reasons why.

And so what about SAVAK? You think the current regime doesn't have the same thing?

[JMack]

How is the current government better than the Shah? List all the reasons why.

And so what about SAVAK? You think the current regime doesn't have the same thing?

This summarize why Iran matters in the global order:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2NcpWI6iJk/maxresdefault.jpg

Anglo-American atlantist thalassocratic empire will be defeated by the great telurochratic empires sooner or later. Mother Russia and the ancient Persia will rise again . Enjoy the last decades of your supremacy, anglo-boy.

The Anglos will be defeated because they're the embodiment of the satanic materialistic forces represented by western modernity. The traditional forces have God at their side, so they will never fall to anglo-saxon degeneracy.

[Babak]

They should also have stuck with the old name of Persia.

Nah, Iran is better. Persia is just a small region within the country, which only represents one group of people. Iran represents everyone.

[N1019]

This summarize why Iran matters in the global order:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2NcpWI6iJk/maxresdefault.jpg

Anglo-American atlantist thalassocratic empire will be defeated by the great telurochratic empires sooner or later. Mother Russia and the ancient Persia will rise again . Enjoy the last decades of your supremacy, anglo-boy.

The Anglos will be defeated because they're the embodiment of the satanic materialistic forces represented by western modernity. The traditional forces have God at their side, so they will never fall to anglo-saxon degeneracy.

lol... It summarizes nothing about why Iran supposedly matters, but nice prophecy. Good luck.

[Babak]

wellp looks like the USA is gonna fuck up Iran next

then it will be lebanon, a repeat of the 6 day war but for good

iraq is done, so is libya

now iran will be done too, sadly theres gonna go another 1,000,000 dead (including women & children) all for greed and money

Hopefully not, although its getting late.

[Demon Revival]

Not surprised this is started by a turkish girl with plaid shirts and hipster glasses who happens to look like a western feminazi.

Typical debauchery of the Islamic republic in favor of "freedomz", "liberties". Yes you empowered turkish snowflake, Iranians are pretty pieces of shit because they aren't free to suck cock, watch mtv, to dress like degenerates while simultaneously having thousands of starbucks and McDonalds.

So much potential lost, no Kim Kardashians and Kike-bank in Persia.

[Dominicanese]

[/B]

Hopefully not, although its getting late.

w.e happens we know the truth

USA is the true terrorist, not you guys

remember that, as one says good ppl are the ones that suffer most in this world sadly this stupid, ugly, disgusting, stinky, rotting, nasty world that no longer is beautiful

[Óttar]

How is the current government better than the Shah? List all the reasons why.

And so what about SAVAK? You think the current regime doesn't have the same thing?
The Shah was crowned in PERSEPOLIS, the ancient 3,000 year old capital. The Shah initiated a campaign to have Iranians give their children classical Persian names. The Shah was the greatest thing that ever happened to that country in the modern age. All the limousine liberals and champagne socialists were too stupid to realize it, and allowed their country to be taken over by barbaric, smelly, illiterate turbaned goat-fuckers.

The Islamic Republic has a secret police that is just as bad as SAVAK except worse because they are theocrat barbarians.

[JohnSmith]

I also had hope for Iran. The people seem to be more liberal and tolerant than the government there. I always considered Persian as Cousins to Europeans.

[zarzian]

The Shah was crowned in PERSEPOLIS, the ancient 3,000 year old capital. The Shah initiated a campaign to have Iranians give their children classical Persian names. The Shah was the greatest thing that ever happened to that country in the modern age. All the limousine liberals and champagne socialists were too stupid to realize it, and allowed their country to be taken over by barbaric, smelly, illiterate turbaned goat-fuckers.

The Islamic Republic has a secret police that is just as bad as SAVAK except worse because they are theocrat barbarians.

Bravo brother, well said. But what foreigners don't understand is that the revolution was started by western agents, effectively forcing the mullahs onto Iran, the people on the streets were uneducated religious villagers who got fooled into protesting the Shah for his secular ways. I promise you that if any of those idiots on the streets knew what was to become of their countey, nom would have shown up amd would have kissed the picture of the great Shah. The Shah might have had help from CIA/MI6 to overthrow Mosadegh, but the Shah became an ultra nationalist right away, and an anti-Illuminati figure. Basically he went rogue on the West and got the Ghadafi treatment, but he accepted the deal from the Satanic Rulers to sacrifice himself inorder to allow his family to live safely in the West so his ending wasent as ugly as Ghadaffi's.

[Babak]

Fuck jimmy carter the peanut farmer. Old fart.

[N1019]

Typical debauchery of the Islamic republic in favor of "freedomz", "liberties". Yes you empowered turkish snowflake, Iranians are pretty pieces of shit because they aren't free to suck cock, watch mtv, to dress like degenerates while simultaneously having thousands of starbucks and McDonalds.

So much potential lost, no Kim Kardashians and Kike-bank in Persia.

You clearly know very little about how young Iranians live. Sure, they are short on American food chains, but that's about all that's missing from your list. Drugs, alcohol, mixed company and even gay parties with scantily clad women/men, pool parties, premarital and extramarital sex are all happening in Iran. You just won't hear about it in the unfree Iranian press.

[Herr Abubu]

You clearly know very little about how young Iranians live. Sure, they are short on American food chains, but that's about all that's missing from your list. Drugs, alcohol, mixed company and even gay parties with scantily clad women/men, pool parties, premarital and extramarital sex are all happening in Iran. You just won't hear about it in the unfree Iranian press.

Fortunately for us you do know how they live, however. LOL!

[N1019]

The Shah was crowned in PERSEPOLIS, the ancient 3,000 year old capital. The Shah initiated a campaign to have Iranians give their children classical Persian names. The Shah was the greatest thing that ever happened to that country in the modern age.

Yeah. The Shah was far from perfect but a lot better than what Iran ended up with. Only a moronic Iran groupie or anti-imperialist libtard could be so blind to that reality. It's much the same as saying that Iraq/Libya would be better off with a formalized ISIS government than Saddam/Gaddafi.


All the limousine liberals and champagne socialists were too stupid to realize it, and allowed their country to be taken over by barbaric, smelly, illiterate turbaned goat-fuckers.
The libtard/commos just keep repeating the same old lines about Iran, parrot-fashion because they cannot accept responsibility for their actions. They are like a broken record. "Oh, if the US didn't get rid of Mossadegh, the 1979 revolution never would have happened". At least some leftist revolutionaries later admitted that they had done the wrong thing, that the Shah was better etc. but many have ego issues that prevent such honesty. Many others didn't survive long enough for such sober reflection, because they were executed by the regime they helped create.

In fact, no-one wants to accept responsibility for what happened in Iran, and the blame could be spread very widely among all the revolutionary factions, the populace, the Anglo-Americans and last but not least the Shah himself.


The Islamic Republic has a secret police that is just as bad as SAVAK except worse because they are theocrat barbarians.

The new Islamic Republic never got rid of SAVAK. They just renamed it, initially I think to SAVAMA, then it was changed again. I have even read reports that contacts with the CIA were maintained following the revolution. In any case, there was so much bullshit spread about the Shah and SAVAK it's not funny. Reports of a hundred thousand political prisoners were found to be false when it was determined that the Shah had only about 3,000. The IRI regime murdered more people in its first few years than the Shah's regime did from 1941 to 1979. Every piece of information out there on Iran needs to be scrutinized very closely.

[N1019]

Fortunately for us you do know how they live, however. LOL!

All you have to do is go there and see for yourself.

[N1019]

Iran is so far the only Middle Eastern country still standing on it's own needs. All the other religious states are whores of the US policy and lost their independence. Mossadegh was elected by the Time magazine as the man of the year and he was the first democratically elected president of Iran right before he was overthrown by the CIA and British secret intelligence. His primary goal was to establish an independent state which can use it's own resources independently and become a local power in the Middle East. Before Mossadegh the Oil was completely ruled by the British Exon.

Mossadegh was a fool for thinking he would be able to get away with his oil plans. Cute and admirable, but a fool. The Shah himself later went down the same path, pushing for autonomy, all built on oil wealth in an environment of rising prices. Some of his quotes are suspiciously similar to those coming from the current regime.


For instance modern Turkey is controlled by Israel and the US. Turkey has a bank system completely controlled by the Swiss bank which is owned by the Rothschild family. Every military move Turkey attempts are being monitored and coordinated by the Israeli intelligence and we can say the recent "success" of Turkey is merely nothing but being a servant of the Globalist needs.

It seems Iran will get one of them at some point, too.

[Jana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfMX9-vS79E
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/tehran-taboo-review-1005818

''The many sexual taboos of the Islamic Republic of Iran come under scrutiny in Ali Soozandeh’s first feature animation.''

[Babak]

The youth in iran are pretty oppressed actually. Most of what you will see in public will be kids trying to make a living by playing live music..its pretty sad. Either their families kicked out them due to being drunks or simply cant afford it. These fucking retarded smelly goat fucking mullahs need to be vaporized.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5g7DsbuZI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFCC3lOxF24

[Demon Revival]

You clearly know very little about how young Iranians live. Sure, they are short on American food chains, but that's about all that's missing from your list. Drugs, alcohol, mixed company and even gay parties with scantily clad women/men, pool parties, premarital and extramarital sex are all happening in Iran. You just won't hear about it in the unfree Iranian press.

The main difference is they see it for the degeneracy it is and not a proof of whiteness, development, liberalism and freedomz together with all other dumb BS ideas people from your part of the world generally spout. In Iran they happen but such vile stuff is never hailed or celebrated as "our freedomz", "development", unlike silly naive westerners do. What bro, they need bars and bikinis to be developed or what?

I'd rather have a non-free press, if the free press is going to mean every pro-Gender studies moron can get a job as a journalism.


All you have to do is go there and see for yourself.

Follow your own advice. Clearly some Australian spouting shit about freedom = bars, malls, scantily clad women and strip clubs has never been in Iran. Not sure why do you insist too much, in turning a relatively healthy country... in another faulty, degenerate imitation of the west. Try suggesting some of your liberal ideas to your own allies like Saudi Arabia instead.

[N1019]

The main difference is they see it for the degeneracy it is and not a proof of whiteness, development, liberalism and freedomz together with all other dumb BS ideas people from your part of the world generally spout. In Iran they happen but such vile stuff is never hailed or celebrated as "our freedomz", "development", unlike silly naive westerners do.


Not sure I hear many Westerners actually celebrating this stuff. The point is, it happens. It's legal in many parts of the world but not Iran, but it still happens there anyway.


What bro, they need bars and bikinis to be developed or what?
Relevance?


I'd rather have a non-free press, if the free press is going to mean every pro-Gender studies moron can get a job as a journalism.
OK. Ask the Iranians what they'd rather have.


Follow your own advice. Clearly some Australian spouting shit about freedom = bars, malls, scantily clad women and strip clubs has never been in Iran. Not sure why do you insist too much, in turning a relatively healthy country... in another faulty, degenerate imitation of the west. Try suggesting some of your liberal ideas to your own allies like Saudi Arabia instead.
They had some scantily clad women legally before the revolution. Now it's illegal in public, but still happens away from the eyes of the regime for those who want to do it.

[Al-Meksiki]

>Liberals praising the Shah

M'kay

[Kamal900]

Bravo brother, well said. But what foreigners don't understand is that the revolution was started by western agents, effectively forcing the mullahs onto Iran, the people on the streets were uneducated religious villagers who got fooled into protesting the Shah for his secular ways. I promise you that if any of those idiots on the streets knew what was to become of their countey, nom would have shown up amd would have kissed the picture of the great Shah. The Shah might have had help from CIA/MI6 to overthrow Mosadegh, but the Shah became an ultra nationalist right away, and an anti-Illuminati figure. Basically he went rogue on the West and got the Ghadafi treatment, but he accepted the deal from the Satanic Rulers to sacrifice himself inorder to allow his family to live safely in the West so his ending wasent as ugly as Ghadaffi's.

The real Shah was murdered by the US backed coup in the 1950's according to the recent testimony from the CIA. Well, you need to ask yourself on why the Shah went rogue in the first place and this video might give some answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTxfH6tnww

I'm glad that Bashar isn't giving up the fight. I don't wish to see Syria turn into another Afghanistan.

[N1019]

The real Shah was murdered by the US backed coup in the 1950's according to the recent testimony from the CIA. Well, you need to ask yourself on why the Shah went rogue in the first place and this video might give some answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTxfH6tnww

I'm glad that Bashar isn't giving up the fight. I don't wish to see Syria turn into another Afghanistan.

And this is the man the leftist libtards call a loyal puppet of America. He went way rogue before his removal, but that doesn't suit their anti-imperialist agenda, so they almost never mention this side of the Shah.

[Demon Revival]

Not sure I hear many Westerners actually celebrating this stuff. The point is, it happens. It's legal in many parts of the world but not Iran, but it still happens there anyway.

Do not play stupid. This is what you mean when Iran is backwards and therefore needs to be freed. You want them to be a brown, globalized, submissive low end copy of yourself. Such freedomz are achieved by legalizing gay rights, endorsing sexual revolutions and degenerate media (often conveniently labelled as free press).




Relevance?

Self explanatory. The west perceives lack of promiscuity together with conservative views, religion and a shielding state to be in need of "liberation" despite such liberation has been proved countless times to give degenerate results.




OK. Ask the Iranians what they'd rather have.

Not into democracy myself. Humanity has never know what it wants, thus what they rather have is irrelevant, so I'll respond by asking the same question you did "relevance?"




They had some scantily clad women legally before the revolution. Now it's illegal in public, but still happens away from the eyes of the regime for those who want to do it.

It's a good action such practices become restricted and eventually eliminated. I do not see what argument you're trying to make.

The west had some polygamic people back then, now it's illegal in public but still happens away from the eyes of your regimes at times.

What's the point? There is no discernible one in the text you're writing. You're spouting freedomz and other dumb bullshits, without offerings any advantages.

Your argument just is this "Iranians were perverts before the revolution, and a few couples of perverts have remained, therefore they all should be perverts again" or am I missing anything else?

The only one offering apologies (for western intervention and disruption of nations) is yourself.

[Babak]

The real Shah was murdered by the US backed coup in the 1950's according to the recent testimony from the CIA. Well, you need to ask yourself on why the Shah went rogue in the first place and this video might give some answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTxfH6tnww

I'm glad that Bashar isn't giving up the fight. I don't wish to see Syria turn into another Afghanistan.

I'd rather have reza shah back tbh.

[N1019]

Do not play stupid. This is what you mean when Iran is backwards and therefore needs to be freed. You want them to be a brown, globalized, submissive low end copy of yourself. Such freedomz are achieved by legalizing gay rights, endorsing sexual revolutions and degenerate media (often conveniently labelled as free press).




Self explanatory. The west perceives lack of promiscuity together with conservative views, religion and a shielding state to be in need of "liberation" despite such liberation has been proved countless times to give degenerate results.




Not into democracy myself. Humanity has never know what it wants, thus what they rather have is irrelevant, so I'll respond by asking the same question you did "relevance?"




It's a good action such practices become restricted and eventually eliminated. I do not see what argument you're trying to make.

The west had some polygamic people back then, now it's illegal in public but still happens away from the eyes of your regimes at times.

What's the point? There is no discernible one in the text you're writing. You're spouting freedomz and other dumb bullshits, without offerings any advantages.

Your argument just is this "Iranians were perverts before the revolution, and a few couples of perverts have remained, therefore they all should be perverts again" or am I missing anything else?

The only one offering apologies (for western intervention and disruption of nations) is yourself.

What a pathetic rant.

[Kamal900]

And this is the man the leftist libtards call a loyal puppet of America. He went way rogue before his removal, but that doesn't suit their anti-imperialist agenda, so they almost never mention this side of the Shah.

Initially, he was a puppet, but later on, he stopped caring about the west and started began to take his own side of things which made the Zionist west pretty angry. Its pretty much the same shit with Saddam as well who later on went rogue and started to pursue his own goals and agendas. Anyway, Iran should be governed by people that represent their interests, not on the interest of foreigners.

[Babak]

Initially, he was a puppet, but later on, he stopped caring about the west and started began to take his own side of things which made the Zionist west pretty angry. Its pretty much the same shit with Saddam as well who later on went rogue and started to pursue his own goals and agendas. Anyway, Iran should be governed by people that represent their interests, not on the interest of foreigners.

While I do agree with this bro, Iran is in terrible shape. Many homeless people, prostituion has risen, food has become expensive etc etc. I can keep going. Iran is fucked. Mullahs dont give two shits about the Iranian people at all.

[Demon Revival]

What a pathetic rant.

As much as I expected, when those "freedom" and "liberation" arguments fall by themselves and their own lack of advantage, they degenerate themselves into one liners. And perhaps into a military intervention, let's force them to enjoy freedom brah.

All I'm saying is that this current Islamic republic (even if not ideal) works better for Iranians than any pro-"western values" government would.

[N1019]

Initially, he was a puppet, but later on, he stopped caring about the west and started began to take his own side of things which made the Zionist west pretty angry. Its pretty much the same shit with Saddam as well who later on went rogue and started to pursue his own goals and agendas.

lol yes, I think I have covered this in great detail over the last few years.


Anyway, Iran should be governed by people that represent their interests, not on the interest of foreigners.

Nice idea, but it's out of touch with how the world really works, isn't it?

[N1019]

As much as I expected, when those "freedom" and "liberation" arguments fall by themselves and their own lack of advantage, they degenerate themselves into one liners.
lol

[Kamal900]

While I do agree with this bro, Iran is in terrible shape. Many homeless people, prostituion has risen, food has become expensive etc etc. I can keep going. Iran is fucked.

Pretty much like what's happening in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, yes. Well, we do have around 500,000 Iranians here living normal lives so not all is lost for the whole middle east.I mean, atheism is growing among many Arab youth as well so I'm looking more forward to the future of secular revolution.

[Kamal900]

lol yes, I think I have covered this in great detail over the last few years.



Nice idea, but it's out of touch with how the world really works, isn't it?

The Middle East is a play ground between the west and the east, so I doubt that things will change anytime soon.

[Pahli]

Pretty much like what's happening in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, yes. Well, we do have around 500,000 Iranians here living normal lives so not all is lost for the whole middle east.I mean, atheism is growing among many Arab youth as well so I'm looking more forward to the future of secular revolution.

That secular revolution can end up bloody, but it will happen for sure.

[Kamal900]

That secular revolution can end up bloody, but it will happen for sure.

No matter what it takes, it has to happen for the sake of our future generations. Abrahamic religions are very cancerous.

[N1019]

All I'm saying is that this current Islamic republic (even if not ideal) works better for Iranians than any pro-"western values" government would.

No, that's not all you're saying. You said Iran was a healthy country, so you're talking absolute shit. You know nothing about Iran.

[Babak]

I'd rather not have this happen again, however.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20090617/0013729e4abe0ba2c35458.jpg

[Demon Revival]

No, that's not all you're saying. You said Iran was a healthy country, so you're talking absolute shit. You know nothing about Iran.

It is certainly healthier than all countries that have had Western backed revolutions, or who have followed those paths by their own volition.

Iranians can still have lasting marriages and raise healthy children, which is nigh impossible in the west now. It is certainly healthier than Turkey who has embraced degenerate behaviors.

Iranian's lifestyle is far better than that of an American who browses 4chan, goes to liberal art studies, is transgender or a cuck etc...

Iran is certainly in no need to embrace western degenerate trends. There is virtually no reason of why they should follow the path you did.

[Kamal900]

It is certainly healthier than all countries that have had Western backed revolutions, or who have followed those paths by their own volition.

Iranians can still have lasting marriages and raise healthy children, which is nigh impossible in the west now. It is certainly healthier than Turkey who has embraced degenerate behaviors.

Iranian's lifestyle is far better than that of an American who browses 4chan, goes to liberal art studies, etc...

Iran is certainly in no need to embrace western degenerate trends. There is virtually no reason of why they should follow the path you did.

You can have these things without being under the rule of Islamic regime. I agree that cultural Marxism is pure cancer which was pushed by Liberals in the 1960's, but Islam is definitely not the answer.

[N1019]

It is certainly healthier than all countries that have had Western backed revolutions, or who have followed those paths by their own volition.

Wrong. The 1979 Revolution was controlled by the CIA and MI6. Iran has had at least three British-backed regime changes.



Iranians can still have lasting marriages and raise healthy children, which is nigh impossible in the west now. It is certainly healthier than Turkey who has embraced degenerate behaviors.

Divorce is on the rise in Iran.



Iran is certainly in no need to embrace western degenerate trends. There is virtually no reason of why they should follow the path you did.

It's not for us to decide. Go to Iran, spend time with the young people there and see how they feel.

[Demon Revival]

You can have these things without being under the rule of Islamic regime. I agree that cultural Marxism is pure cancer which was pushed by Liberals in the 1960's, but Islam is definitely not the answer.

This is what most people (especially the "modern turkish girl") want for Iran. This is what they mean when they say the Iranians are a lost potential. Lost potential to be the middleeastern's McDonalds hub, capital of gay marches and naked strippers.

[Pahli]

No matter what it takes, it has to happen for the sake of our future generations. Abrahamic religions are very cancerous.

Of course it does, I totally agree. I hope they will progress much more afterwards.

[Demon Revival]

Wrong. The 1979 Revolution was controlled by the CIA and MI6. Iran has had at least three British-backed regime changes.

Fortunately Iran is no longer under their control nor serve their interests, and it should stay that way.



Divorce is on the rise in Iran.

Don't see it reaching a metastasis like in the West where it's just an institution to rip off males by now. There are multiple societal norms there to prevent it from ever happening.





It's not for us to decide. Go to Iran, spend time with the young people there and see how they feel.

Not for them to decide either. Democracy isn't a big thing there, you should already know that. (and neither it is for me).

How they feel is irrelevant because humanity has never known what it wants for itself.

[Kamal900]

This is what most people (especially the "modern turkish girl") want for Iran. This is what they mean when they say the Iranians are a lost potential. Lost potential to be the middleeastern's McDonalds hub, capital of gay marches and naked strippers.

Gizem is nothing but a hypocritical hipster who doesn't see the failure of her own kind when it comes to civilization. I mean, is mistreating the Kurds and other minorities of Turkey where they are abused by the state and the people called civilized? Is denying the Turkish role in the genocide of countless Christians civilized? Is the gloating of killings of Armenians by Turkish nationalists in western Turkey civilized? Turks are the last people to talk about civilization when their mentality is far in the same level as western countries which is why Turkey was denied entry into the EU. If I was an Iranian, I would rather revert back to living off the land as a nomad that adopting the Marxist ideologies of the west that made the birth rates of the western world lower than the displacement level.

[Wadaad]

Iranian revolution was one of the few times OWD was tackled head-on by the masses.

All those pics of bare chested Iranian women from the 70s....they were at the expense of the Iranian masses, who had a boot on their neck, just so that a few priviledged can show you pics of them skiing in North Tehran and drinking champagne with some Westerners.

[N1019]

Fortunately Iran is no longer under their control nor serve their interests, and it should stay that way.

Should, but won't. Iran is going down.


Don't see it reaching a metastasis like in the West where it's just an institution to rip off males by now. There are multiple societal norms there to prevent it from ever happening.

Yes, it will probably start to happen there, too. Iranian men are already going to gaol for not paying women their "marital gift" as divorce settlement, being divorced immediately after mehrieh etc. Also, with women making up the majority of university graduates like in the West, it doesn't bode well for the future of marriage.


Not for them to decide either. Democracy isn't a big thing there, you should already know that. (and neither it is for me).

How they feel is irrelevant because humanity has never known what it wants for itself.

lol OK

[Halgurd]

Fuck the shah. Fuck the mullah regime as well.

[JohnSmith]

While I do agree with this bro, Iran is in terrible shape. Many homeless people, prostituion has risen, food has become expensive etc etc. I can keep going. Iran is fucked. Mullahs dont give two shits about the Iranian people at all.

Iran has been sanctioned for years due to their intolerant and theocratic government. I have faith the people want a free and democratic government and become more like their European Cousins. The Persian people seem to be more pragmatist and not as radical as other Islamic countries.

[Demon Revival]

Should, but won't.

We can never predict the future, as neither have those who are advocating their fall since a decade ago.



Yes, it will probably start to happen there, too. Iranian men are already going to gaol for not paying women their "marital gift", being divorced immediately after mehrieh etc. Also, with women making up the majority of university graduates like in the West, it doesn't bode well for the future of marriage.

It's ok, I already understand you wish they become as degenerate as you are since the beggining, but this isn't happening soon. Anecdotal histories don't make up for the truth:
http://cdn3.chartsbin.com/chartimages/l_3232_91cd935a198a96516863b3b82c55843e

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3f/8b/40/3f8b40eec66a2b23c7da0aec4318d4ef.jpg




lol OK

I find it interesting how you try to make it look like you have the advantage, or are some sort of emissary of truth whereas half of your answers are at best one liners, and at worst "LOL". Have a little more consistency.

I recommend using facebook instead for quick reacts.

[Halgurd]

Gizem is nothing but a hypocritical hipster who doesn't see the failure of her own kind when it comes to civilization. I mean, is mistreating the Kurds and other minorities of Turkey where they are abused by the state and the people called civilized? Is denying the Turkish role in the genocide of countless Christians civilized? Is the gloating of killings of Armenians by Turkish nationalists in western Turkey civilized? Turks are the last people to talk about civilization when their mentality is far in the same level as western countries which is why Turkey was denied entry into the EU. If I was an Iranian, I would rather revert back to living off the land as a nomad that adopting the Marxist ideologies of the west that made the birth rates of the western world lower than the displacement level.

'Marxist ideologies of the west' loooool

West=liberalism
Marxist ideologies=USSR, China, Yugoslavia, N.Korea, Vietnam, Libya to an extent

[N1019]

We can never predict the future, as neither have those who are advocating their fall since a decade ago.

Yep OK. No predictions. Nothing to see here.



It's ok, I already understand you wish they become as degenerate as you are since the beggining, but this isn't happening soon. Anecdotal histories don't make up for the truth:

My wish? No dear, this isn't personal, at least not for me. Again, forget it. Iran doesn't have a rising marriage failure rate. Nothing to see here.



I find it interesting how you try to make it look like you have the advantage, or are some sort of emissary of truth whereas half of your answers are at best one liners, and at worst "LOL". Have a little more consistency.

Sometimes it's better to sit back and let you do the talking.

[Demon Revival]

Yep OK. No predictions. Nothing to see here.

Indeed. Iran for the time being will keep resisting the Great Satan.



My wish? No dear, this isn't personal. Again, forget it. Iran doesn't have a rising marriage failure rate.

According to most available stats they have slightly higher divorce rates than other middle eastern nations, but still far less than most western countries. So much for them not being progressive! Seems like they are giving wymenz their "proper" rights they no longer need carpet bombing and regime change, right mate?





Sometimes it's better to sit back and let you do the talking.

I'm fine with this. Let's keep the truth here and the "LOL reactions" to facebook or instagram.

[N1019]

Indeed. Iran for the time being will keep resisting the Great Satan.

Pure regime propaganda. You do realize few ordinary Iranians actually believe in that Great Satan shit? Oh yeah, that's right: their opinion doesn't count but the ayatollahs' does.


According to most available stats they have slightly higher divorce rates than other middle eastern nations, but still far less than most western countries. So much for them not being progressive! Seems like they are giving wymenz their "proper" rights they no longer need carpet bombing and regime change, right mate?

Wait a minute, does that mean you support their relatively progressive approach?

Since when has bombing had anything to do with wymenz rights?



I'm fine with this. Let's keep the truth here and the "LOL reactions" to facebook or instagram.

Yeah, I thought you would be, and thanks for your polite suggestion, but I'll continue to respond as I please.

[Demon Revival]

Pure regime propaganda. You do realize few ordinary Iranians actually believe in that Great Satan shit? Oh yeah, that's right: their opinion doesn't count but the ayatollahs' does.

Ow wow calm down. You really really really want to bring demuhcrazy to them boys don't you?



Wait a minute, does that mean you support their relatively progressive approach?

.

Rather that they're progressive enough with their current Islamic regime and their potential by extension, under the general western view, is not so lost at all currently.

Since this is a modern attitude enough, this should be enough for tolerating them instead of force feeding them freedom.

[N1019]

Ow wow calm down. You really really really want to bring demuhcrazy to them boys don't you?

You're still trying to make this a personal thing for me, aren't you?

Who said anything about wanting democracy for Iran? Not me. We know bombing countries to the stone age doesn't give them democracy.



Rather that they're progressive enough with their current Islamic regime and their potential by extension, under the general western view, is not so lost at all currently.

Their potential for what?

[Demon Revival]

You're still trying to make this a personal thing for me, aren't you?

Who said anything about wanting democracy for Iran? Not me. We know bombing countries to the stone age doesn't give them democracy.


Their potential for what?

LOL.

[N1019]

If I was an Iranian, I would rather revert back to living off the land as a nomad that adopting the Marxist ideologies of the west that made the birth rates of the western world lower than the displacement level.

They couldn't live off the land anymore even if they wanted to. Their population is getting too big for that old fashioned way of life. There are still some nomads doing it, but not everyone could. Iran is facing major water supply issues and already has a pretty low birth rate.


'Marxist ideologies of the west' loooool

West=liberalism
Marxist ideologies=USSR, China, Yugoslavia, N.Korea, Vietnam, Libya to an extent

Yeah, funny that, isn't it? The richest countries in the world never became communist, although a form of Marxism has permeated to suit the nefarious agenda of the elite. In the end communist dictatorships were mostly used to modernize and industrialise backward agricultural countries.



Iranian revolution was one of the few times OWD was tackled head-on by the masses.

All those pics of bare chested Iranian women from the 70s....they were at the expense of the Iranian masses, who had a boot on their neck, just so that a few priviledged can show you pics of them skiing in North Tehran and drinking champagne with some Westerners.

A victory for Islam, eh? The only problem is 38 years of rule by ayatollahs has turned many Iranians off religion forever. It's all well and good to say that much of the country was still conservative and religious in 1979, but that does not mean they were not on a path to modernity, and it does not mean they wanted the regime they got. Off the record, few Iranians seem to support compulsory hijab. On the record, they fear reprisals for their honesty.

[JohnSmith]

You're still trying to make this a personal thing for me, aren't you?

Who said anything about wanting democracy for Iran? Not me. We know bombing countries to the stone age doesn't give them democracy.




Their potential for what?

I said that the people of Iran are way more pragmatic and progressive vs their theocratic government or Arab Muslim culture. Persians are very interesting people and European Cousins. They could assimilate into Western culture easier than most think.

[N1019]

I said that the people of Iran are way more pragmatic and progressive vs their theocratic government or Arab Muslim culture. Persians are very interesting people and European Cousins. They could assimilate into Western culture easier than most think.

Ummm I didn't reply to your post.

There is definitely a big difference between official government policy and public opinion on various issues. However, one area where they (and the Shah) all seem to agree is on independence and sovereignty. Significantly, that includes fiscal and energy sovereignty, i.e. control over their money, oil and gas reserves. That reason alone is enough to ensure they will face sanctions, regime-change attempts or war. As for their individual personalities, well, whatever. There are cool people everywhere. There is also scum everywhere.

[zarzian]

The real Shah was murdered by the US backed coup in the 1950's according to the recent testimony from the CIA. Well, you need to ask yourself on why the Shah went rogue in the first place and this video might give some answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTxfH6tnww

I'm glad that Bashar isn't giving up the fight. I don't wish to see Syria turn into another Afghanistan.

Oh my god man, I never saw this video, he fuckin called it the way it was.

[Babak]

I said that the people of Iran are way more pragmatic and progressive vs their theocratic government or Arab Muslim culture. Persians are very interesting people and European Cousins. They could assimilate into Western culture easier than most think.

Agreed. Iranians are educated and successful in the west.

[JohnSmith]

Ummm I didn't reply to your post.

There is definitely a big difference between official government policy and public opinion on various issues. However, one area where they (and the Shah) all seem to agree is on independence and sovereignty. Significantly, that includes fiscal and energy sovereignty, i.e. control over their money, oil and gas reserves. That reason alone is enough to ensure they will face sanctions, regime-change attempts or war. As for their individual personalities, well, whatever. There are cool people everywhere. There is also scum everywhere.

I know I saw you reference democracy. I think us westerners should do everything we can to support the people of Iran so they can have the courage to go against their oppressive government.

[Babak]

I know I saw you reference democracy. I think us westerners should do everything we can to support the people of Iran so they can have the courage to go against their oppressive government.

Generous of you, thanks brother

[JohnSmith]

Generous of you, thanks brother

We are basically distant cousins in my opinion As Farsi and and European Languages are distantly related.

[Zephyrus]

Iranians are the only Muslims I deeply admire.
They have my deepest respect for their history, culture and their beautiful antisemitism.

[Herr Abubu]

All you have to do is go there and see for yourself.

As I am sure you have done. How did you find those gay parties, though? Hm... :lightbul:

[Kaushika]

Indians are considered the shittiest people in the whole world, even in the USA. Since they're amongst all kind of migrants, they get hidden.

still we are richest race in the America. in fact my own family members migrated to America in 60s and now today they are billionaires.

i must say thank you to Native North Americans for giving their land to outsiders, even if they were forced for that.

[Kamal900]

Oh my god man, I never saw this video, he fuckin called it the way it was.

The media never show this side of the Shah for obvious reasons. He wasn't the only one who rebelled against the west. Remember king Faisal of Saudi Arabia in the 60's? He called on all of the Muslims of the world to go and fight against Israel, and he was the one who boycotted any oil being sold to the US and the west to end their support to Israel which had plunged the US economy in the 70's before his cousin, who got support from the US government, assassinated him and took over the country which the monarchs of today are descended from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVWymq5zYpQ

[Gold-Shekel]

If only the Shah's dictatorship had lived on, Iran would probably be a superpower today (feel the sarcasm)

[N1019]

As I am sure you have done. How did you find those gay parties, though? Hm... :lightbul:

Yep. Awesome. Until we got arrested and sodomized by the Po-leece.

[N1019]

I know I saw you reference democracy. I think us westerners should do everything we can to support the people of Iran so they can have the courage to go against their oppressive government.

Well, not really, I think you should quote me on that. I don't recall saying Iran should be a democracy. Unfortunately for Iran, I doubt the future government will be very democratic, either. That is, it will be democratic until such liberties affect the interests of certain folk. It's always the way, even in the West, but this will be worse. I'd like to say that a rosy future lies ahead for Iran, but even after the current regime is destroyed, I just can't see it. I mean, look at all the other middle eastern states in which the US has changed regimes. Are they happy places? I think not.

But anyway, that support you mentioned might be happening if the words of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson are to be taken seriously.

[N1019]

Fuck the shah. Fuck the mullah regime as well.

I have to say that what the Shah did to the Kurds in 1975 was a low act.

The Shah used the Kurds and the US, then dumped them when it no longer suited him (after getting the Arvand Rud concession), only offering asylum as compensation for those who survived and made it across the border. Apparently, his majesty was embarrassed to meet with Barzani afterwards, as the media attacks had ramped up on him.

Israel also saw it as betrayal since it thought keeping Iraq in a stalemate with the Kurds would prevent it from entering the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Even Kissinger at least claimed to be taken aback by the Shah's sell-out of the Kurds, although many had predicted it was coming. Kissinger was blamed for it in the American press after US involvement in the affair became public, but all US support was via Iran. When questioned, the Shah said that's what he gets for being arrogant. He could be a real prick.

[Babak]

Well, not really, I think you should quote me on that. I don't recall saying Iran should be a democracy. Unfortunately for Iran, I doubt the future government will be very democratic, either. That is, it will be democratic until such liberties affect the interests of certain folk. It's always the way, even in the West, but this will be worse. I'd like to say that a rosy future lies ahead for Iran, but even after the current regime is destroyed, I just can't see it. I mean, look at all the other middle eastern states in which the US has changed regimes. Are they happy places? I think not.

But anyway, that support you mentioned might be happening if the words of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson are to be taken seriously.

And how do you know this? Explain

[N1019]

And how do you know this? Explain

Know what, exactly?

[Kamal900]

And how do you know this? Explain

I heard similar story from my Balochi friend from Oman who told me that they look at the Kurds as their kin against Iran for the sole purpose of gaining independence and forge a new nation which the Shah had met with some Pakistani officials about the problems in dealing with the Baloch resistance fighters. That's why I honestly dislike all forms of nationalism which is something I praise about Islam even if most of the things about the religion is negative.

[Babak]

Know what, exactly?

That theres a rosy future in store for Iran. Its probably going to end up like iraq tbh

[N1019]

That theres a rosy future in store for Iran. Its probably going to end up like iraq tbh

I didn't say that.

FYI:

I'd like to say that a rosy future lies ahead for Iran, but even after the current regime is destroyed, I just can't see it. I mean, look at all the other middle eastern states in which the US has changed regimes. Are they happy places? I think not.

In other words, Iran is fucked, even after the mullahs are gone.

[Babak]

I didn't say that.

FYI:


In other words, Iran is fucked, even after the mullahs are gone.

So what do you think should be done?

[Kamal900]

So what do you think should be done?

By taking the west as an example of running things than being like Turkey or Iraq and Syria under the Ba3ath regime that oppresses minorities. You need to set up a constitution that respects the rights for all Iranians regardless of race, gender, ethnicity and etc. Turkey had never changed it's laws that was implemented by Kemal Ataturk in the 1920's while the west kept on changing laws throughout the generations to give more equality and justice for all peoples.

[Herr Abubu]

Yep. Awesome. Until we got arrested and sodomized by the Po-leece.

If you were hopping around in secret underground gay bars in Teheran it is to be expected police with similar predilections as you would see it as a mutual service.

[Babak]

By taking the west as an example of running things than being like Turkey or Iraq and Syria under the Ba3ath regime that oppresses minorities. You need to set up a constitution that respects the rights for all Iranians regardless of race, gender, ethnicity and etc. Turkey had never changed it's laws that was implemented by Kemal Ataturk in the 1920's while the west kept on changing laws throughout the generations to give more equality and justice for all peoples.

Even once the mullahs are gone, this is unlikely.

[Kamal900]

Even once the mullahs are gone, this is unlikely.

Which is one of the main reasons on why the middle east and north Africa are so fucked up really. While I see Islam as a bad religion really, but I do agree on some points regarding nationalism and racism which the religion is very much against and called for the Ummah for all Muslims of the world regardless of race and etc. Strangely, the Arabs and the Iranians or Indians and Pakistanis here get along much more better than they do in the north of the middle east and etc.

[N1019]

So what do you think should be done?

I think it's too late to do anything. There are a few possible alternatives to utter catastrophe, but I'm not optimistic about them. Those who can leave probably should start making plans to do so, and be prepared for a lengthy stay away. There's no point getting caught up in circumstances totally beyond their control.

[Babak]

I think it's too late to do anything. There are a few possible alternatives to utter catastrophe, but I'm not optimistic about them. Those who can leave probably should start making plans to do so, and be prepared for a lengthy stay away. There's no point getting caught up in circumstances totally beyond their control.

hmmm

[Demon Revival]

I think it's too late to do anything. There are a few possible alternatives to utter catastrophe, but I'm not optimistic about them. Those who can leave probably should start making plans to do so, and be prepared for a lengthy stay away. There's no point getting caught up in circumstances totally beyond their control.

And now we're going with apocalypse fanfics. Sassy!

[N1019]

And now we're going with apocalypse fanfics. Sassy!

It's just honesty. But please continue with the worthless ad hominem trollery if you like. I know you're itching to let off a few more three round bursts. Every time I reply to you, it invites you to blow your load again. Go for it. Oh, and teach me a few more things about Iran, if you have anything else to add.

[Babak]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/opinion/donald-trump-war-iran-.html

The last thing the United States needs is another war in the Middle East. Yet a drumbeat of provocative words, outright threats and actions — from President Trump and some of his top aides as well as Sunni Arab leaders and American activists — is raising tensions that could lead to armed conflict with Iran.

Tehran invites some of this hostility with moves like detaining Xiyue Wang, a Princeton scholar, and supporting the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad. And for many American politicians, Iran — estranged from the United States since 1979 — deserves only punishment and isolation. But Iran and the United States also share some interests, like fighting the Islamic State. So why not take advantage of all the diplomatic tools, including opening a dialogue, used before to manage difficult and even hostile governments?

It is useful to recall the lead-up to the 2003 Iraq War, arguably America’s biggest strategic blunder in modern times. After the Sept. 11 attacks, the country was riveted on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan. But in Washington, the talk turned almost immediately to Iraq and the chance to overthrow Saddam Hussein, even though he had nothing to do with Sept. 11 and had no nuclear weapons, as President George W. Bush alleged. Mr. Bush decided to fight a pre-emptive war without a solid justification or strategy.

Such a stumble into war could happen again. Here are some reasons to be concerned:

■ President Trump campaigned on a pledge to tear up the 2015 seven-nation nuclear pact under which Iran rolled back its nuclear program in exchange for a lifting of sanctions. Although he twice certified to Congress, most recently on Monday, that Iran remains in compliance with the deal, he did so grudgingly and with the subsequent imposition of new sanctions related to Iran’s ballistic missile tests. The Iranians say Mr. Trump is in danger of violating the agreement, especially after urging European leaders not to do business with Iran. A central promise of the deal was that Tehran would benefit economically in exchange for its nuclear restraint. Instead of taking advantage of this diplomatic breakthrough, Mr. Trump seems intent on reversing it by provoking Iran to renege or reneging himself, in much the way he rejected the Paris climate accord.

■ Congress, which was overwhelmingly opposed to the nuclear deal when it was signed, is working on new sanctions. Republicans in particular have pressed Mr. Trump to toughen his approach. In a recent letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, four senators said Iran continues to wage “regional aggression, sponsor international terrorism, develop ballistic missile technology and oppress the Iranian people.” There’s truth in that. But the nuclear deal was intended to alleviate only the nuclear threat, and they, like other critics, fail to acknowledge that it represented important progress toward decreasing the risk of war in the region.

■ Top American officials have turned up their rhetoric and have hinted at support for regime change, despite the dismal record in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Mr. Tillerson accused Iran of seeking regional hegemony at the expense of American allies like Saudi Arabia. “Our policy toward Iran is to push back on this hegemony … and to work toward support of those elements inside of Iran that would lead to a peaceful transition of that government,” he told a congressional committee. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis recently called Iran “ the most destabilizing influence in the Middle East.”

■ Since the 1979 revolution that installed a theocracy in Iran, American leaders have periodically toyed with regime change. But some experts say this time is more serious, because Mr. Trump accepts the simplistic view of Sunni-led Saudi Arabia that Shiite-led Iran is to blame for all that’s wrong in the region, taking sides in the feud between two branches of Islam.

[N1019]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/opinion/donald-trump-war-iran-.html

This is a more typical piece, what I'd expect from the NYT and have been seeing since 2015.


Tehran invites some of this hostility with moves like detaining Xiyue Wang, a Princeton scholar, and supporting the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad.

True. Arresting and imprisoning American citizens will never go down well, although America typically does very little about it. As for supporting Assad, if Iran gets involved in conflicts outside its borders, it runs the risk of pissing off America, which in turn opens up the possibility of a response.


But Iran and the United States also share some interests, like fighting the Islamic State.

The pseudo-analysts love throwing that one in there. That's fake news, and we all know it. If the US is happy to watch ISIS plough through countries, murdering, raping and pillaging, then it hardly shares any interests there with Iran, for which ISIS poses a direct threat.


So why not take advantage of all the diplomatic tools, including opening a dialogue, used before to manage difficult and even hostile governments?

Because it was never their intention, perhaps?



It is useful to recall the lead-up to the 2003 Iraq War, arguably America’s biggest strategic blunder in modern times. After the Sept. 11 attacks, the country was riveted on Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan. But in Washington, the talk turned almost immediately to Iraq and the chance to overthrow Saddam Hussein, even though he had nothing to do with Sept. 11 and had no nuclear weapons, as President George W. Bush alleged. Mr. Bush decided to fight a pre-emptive war without a solid justification or strategy.

And it seems the plan to go to war with Iran was devised at the same time. It was a plan to remodel the entire MENA region, and it is being implemented. I like the way they try to make the US look incompetent and like a failure, when total destruction of entire nations seems to have been the plan. More fake news.


■ Top American officials have turned up their rhetoric and have hinted at support for regime change, despite the dismal record in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Mr. Tillerson accused Iran of seeking regional hegemony at the expense of American allies like Saudi Arabia. “Our policy toward Iran is to push back on this hegemony … and to work toward support of those elements inside of Iran that would lead to a peaceful transition of that government,” he told a congressional committee. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis recently called Iran “ the most destabilizing influence in the Middle East.”

Trump is surrounded by not just war hawks, but Iran war hawks. It seems deliberate. Again, due to the plan that was laid out years ago. They said they were not going to leave the job of dealing with Iran to a future administration.


■ Since the 1979 revolution that installed a theocracy in Iran, American leaders have periodically toyed with regime change. But some experts say this time is more serious, because Mr. Trump accepts the simplistic view of Sunni-led Saudi Arabia that Shiite-led Iran is to blame for all that’s wrong in the region, taking sides in the feud between two branches of Islam.

It is more serious now for the simple reason that it's getting closer, not because of Trump's accepting a simplistic sectarian view. It wouldn't matter who was in the White House. The plan is in action.