New Mesolithic Scandinavian DNA

[cosmoo]

New paper on Mesolithic Scandinavian DNA: http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/07/17/164400.figures-only
One facial reconstruction based on autosomal data (which is really... meh), 7 new hunter-gatherers tested, of which 3 have Y-DNA haplogroups isolated. One I2 from southern Norway, one I2 from Sweden, and one I2a1b from northern Norway.

[Tschaikisten]

how come the age of I2a2 Din subclade exactly coincides with the age of Bosnian Pyramids?

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab315/DDX_Edsel_2009/MyPersonalArt/IcePyramidontheOcean.jpg

[Tschaikisten]

No I1? Sorry Dick, my Neolithic friend.:icon_cry:

[Lucas]

New paper on Mesolithic Scandinavian DNA: http://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/07/17/164400.figures-only
One facial reconstruction based on autosomal data (which is really... meh), 7 new hunter-gatherers tested, of which 3 have Y-DNA haplogroups isolated. One I2 from southern Norway, one I2 from Sweden, and one I2a1b from northern Norway.

From this study:


Palaeolithic European hunter-gatherers (PEHG)
The Hirisplex eye and hair color prediction for the Paleoltihic European hunter gatherers
ElMiron, GoyetQ116-1, Vestonice16, Kostenki14 (dated from 18,000 to 36,000 ya), displayed
high probabilities of being brown-eye color (> 0.99), and high probabilities of exhibiting a dark
hair pigmentation (0.60-0.99). All four individuals presented only dark-skin alleles at
rs16891982. The GoyetQ116-1 and Vestonice16 individuals missed information at the
rs1426654, while El Miron carried only dark-skin alleles at that position, and Kostenki14 had
four dark-skin alleles and one light-pigmentation allele.

We discuted this some time ago...


But this is very promising... No bullshit about only 6-000 years old blue eyes... My god, it made me sick for few years, read such bullshit.


Such results suggest that the blue eye-color allele is rather old. Using an ABC modeling
approach Nakagome et al. (186), predicted that the light-pigmentation allele at rs12913832
emerged around 42,000 years ago or earlier; a date close in time to the initial peopling of Europe.
A plausible scenario of the origin of the blue-eye mutation that reconciles our results with
findings from other studies is one where this variant appeared in an ancestral population before
the ancestors of the WHG migrated from Near East into West and Central Europe

[Wrong]

But this is very promising... No bullshit about only 6-000 years old blue eyes... My god, it mad eme sick for few years.

Such results suggest that the blue eye-color allele is rather old. Using an ABC modeling
approach Nakagome et al. (186), predicted that the light-pigmentation allele at rs12913832
emerged around 42,000 years ago or earlier; a date close in time to the initial peopling of Europe.
A plausible scenario of the origin of the blue-eye mutation that reconciles our results with
findings from other studies is one where this variant appeared in an ancestral population before
the ancestors of the WHG migrated from Near East into West and Central Europe



So blue eyes is pre-HG? Makes alot more sense now.

[Lucas]

So it's coincide with first CMs entering Europe. I'm sure not only WHG possesed it then. Near East was a starting point to migration also for pre-EHG and pre-CHG.

[RN97]

So it's coincide with first CMs entering Europe. I'm sure not only WHG possesed it then. Near East was a starting point to migration also for pre-EHG and pre-CHG.

So west Asia is the ancestral homeland for blue eyed folks, lol?

[Dick]

where's the facial reconstruction?

[Lucas]

So west Asia is the ancestral homeland for blue eyed folks, lol?

Europe was covered with ice and Neanderthals back then:) But blue-eyed devils killed them all:)

[Rethel]

But this is very promising... No bullshit about only 6-000 years old blue eyes... My god, it made me sick for few years, read such bullshit.

???

[RN97]

Europe was covered with ice and Neanderthals back then:) But blue-eyed devils kille dthem all:)

Yeah, but it's crazy how they developed that mutation in west Asia. Have you heard the theories about blue eyes being developed in Europe due to little amounts of light (blue eyes see better in the dark according to what I once read). It turns out that blue eyes and the European environment don't correlate much then.

[Lucas]

Yeah, but it's crazy how they developed that mutation in west Asia. Have you heard the theories about blue eyes being developed in Europe due to little amounts of light (blue eyes see better in the dark according to what I once read). It turns out that blue eyes and the European environment don't correlate much then.

I guess when Artic Ice sheet was just above Alps and Carpathians, Near East climate was likely similar to Poland:)

[Rethel]

light-pigmentation allele at rs12913832
emerged around 42,000 years ago or earlier;

Szkoda, że nie 42 miliony... :picard2:

[RN97]

I guess when Artic Ice sheet was just above Alps and Carpathians, Near East climate was likely similar to Poland:)

Makes sense then.
Would be so sad if blue eyes had nothing to do with the current climate we live in.

[Dick]

Europe was covered with ice and Neanderthals back then:) But blue-eyed devils killed them all:)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/CroMagnon.png

[Lucas]

Oh light skin is also quite old.



The large effect light-skin alleles at rs16891982 and rs1426654 were present in SHG, EHG,
CHG and EEF but absent in WHG and PEHG. Similarly, the C11 haplotype is present in hunter-
gatherers (SHG, EHG and CHG but not WHG and PEHG) throughout Europe, as well as in at
least two early farmers. This pattern is consistent with reports that the rs1426654 derived allele
arose ~22,000-28,000 years ago (186, 187), and that the light-pigmentation allele at rs16891982
arose only once in Eurasians (186, 188). A possible geographical origin for these two major
light-skin alleles is West Asia or the Near East (189). Later migrations across the Caucasus
(CHG) and Eastern Europe would have brought it to Scandinavia, while EEF migrations
introduced both alleles into central Europe


Also bear in mind it was colder back then in this area, during Ice Age.

[Rethel]

Would be so sad if blue eyes had nothing to do with the current climate we live in.

They have nothing to do with climate at all.

[RN97]

They have nothing to do with climate at all.

What's the point of them according to r1ethelian school?

[Rethel]

What's the point of them according to r1ethelian school?

A different colour. Just.

[RN97]

A different colour. Just.

Mutations don't often happen just for shits n' gigs, but it might be just aesthetic.

[Lucas]

A different colour. Just.

No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.

[Lucas]

But some bad news for pre Scandos:)


The eyebrow thickness associated SNP rs112458845 showed variation among SHGs (3As and
2Gs called), whereas the monobrow variant G (rs2218065) appears to be in high frequency (6 of
6) among SHGs. SF12 was homozygote for both the thick eyebrow and monobrow variants.

:P

[Rethel]

No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.

You just explained eventual cause of brown eyes, not blue :)

[Dick]

No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.

He still thinks blue eyes are aR1yan but nope, from I-Europeans.

[RN97]

No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.

My brother and I both are very light sensitive and sneeze when we look into the sun, but I know Pakis who also do that so it might have just been aesthetic.

[Rethel]

But some bad news for pre Scandos:) :P

Hi Di1ck!!!

http://www.monobrow.com/monobro/images/bro-48.jpg

[Dick]

Hi Di1ck!!!

http://www.monobrow.com/monobro/images/bro-48.jpg

You're mad http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Rethel]

He still thinks blue eyes are aR1yan but nope, from I-Europeans.

Don;t be a dreamer...
Btw, if you belive in this hilarious datings, then you must accept,
that IEs were in Europe at least 17k years ago - so they could
brought it here. And what is more important, SHG had clear IE
autosomal admixture - they would have to be "pure" westerners,
to judge this topic correctly. Even Ötzi had.

[Dick]

https://i.giphy.com/media/Gt4FaBEFngjL2/giphy.webp

[Dick]

Rofl, R1etard logs off due to his anger :heh:

[ProEuropa]

No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.

That's up to the individual. My father who lived in who lived in Sweden and Finland his whole life had zero problems walking around in for example Italy and he had very blue eyes. Same with my mother, who has only started using sunglasses as she has grown older. My blue-eyed uncle wears sunglasses all the time even here in Sweden, and I have to squint/look at the ground if I want to be out at summer with my mostly green eyes. Up to the individual, I think.

[Rethel]

Rofl, R1etard logs off due to his anger :heh:

:picard2:

You know, here people want go to sleep.

But you should read carefully this:

Scandinavia was one of the last geographic areas in Europe to become habitable for humans after the last glaciation. However, the origin(s) of the first colonizers and their migration routes remain unclear. We sequenced the genomes, up to 57x coverage, of seven hunter-gatherers excavated across Scandinavia and dated to 9,500-6,000 years before present. Surprisingly, among the Scandinavian Mesolithic individuals, the genetic data display an east-west genetic gradient that opposes the pattern seen in other parts of Mesolithic Europe. This result suggests that Scandinavia was initially colonized following two different routes: one from the south, the other from the northeast. The latter followed the ice-free Norwegian north Atlantic coast, along which novel and advanced pressure-blade stone-tool techniques may have spread. These two groups met and mixed in Scandinavia, creating a genetically diverse population, which shows patterns of genetic adaptation to high latitude environments. These adaptations include high frequencies of low pigmentation variants and a gene-region associated with physical performance, which shows strong continuity into modern-day northern Europeans. Finally, we were able to compute a 3D facial reconstruction of a Mesolithic woman from her high-coverage genome, giving a glimpse into an individual's physical appearance in the Mesolithic.

[Wrong]

No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.
Blue eyes are more light-sensitive. Better for dark areas.

[Dick]

Don;t be a dreamer...
Btw, if you belive in this hilarious datings, then you must accept,
that IEs were in Europe at least 17k years ago - so they could
brought it here. And what is more important, SHG had clear IE
autosomal admixture - they would have to be "pure" westerners,
to judge this topic correctly. Even Ötzi had.

Motala12 is SHG, with 19% of ANE.

La Brana is same as Loschbour, both had blue eyes: WHG with 0% ANE. Now cry yourself to sleep.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/143/590x/gerard-butler-brana-ancestor-456366.jpg

http://www.lameuse.be/sites/default/files/imagecache/pagallery_450x300/2014/09/18/505257274_B973600377Z.1_20140918191216_000_GCN3574 8Q.2-0.jpg



:picard2:

You know, here people want go to sleep.

But you should read carefully this:

Scandinavia was one of the last geographic areas in Europe to become habitable for humans after the last glaciation. However, the origin(s) of the first colonizers and their migration routes remain unclear. We sequenced the genomes, up to 57x coverage, of seven hunter-gatherers excavated across Scandinavia

Ok and? None of them were R1.

[cosmoo]

So it's coincide with first CMs entering Europe. I'm sure not only WHG possesed it then. Near East was a starting point to migration also for pre-EHG and pre-CHG.
Yes, but most of Palaeolithic Europeans didn't have blue eyes, even many "WHGs" like Bichon. Don't also forget Hum2 Mesolithic Norwegian HG with brown eyes from this very study.


No sorry, this is wrong. I really have hard times when I traveled in Med countries in summer from intensive and bright sunlight. I can only walk in sunglasses. Brown eyed locals don't have such problem.
Light eyes do not confer any adaptational advantage at all. Two modifications noticed in nocturnal animals are increased rod cell count and tapetum lucidum, not light retina. It doesn't even make sense from structural standpoint, as light passes solely through pupil.
Do not use anecdotal evidence as proof of anything. I, for example, have dark eyes, yet on sun I squint harder than Clint Eastwood.
No need to fantasize like "we be dem sons of frozen northhhh" when neither UP Europeans nor Neanderthals (who lived in much harsher climate than the one nowadays or in Mesolithic) tested had light eyes.

[Rethel]

Motala12 is SHG, with 19% of ANE.

So you see...


La Brana is same as Loschbour, both had blue eyes: WHG with 0% ANE. Now cry yourself to sleep.

1. Their colour of eyes is not sure.
2. Is not logical
3. There are "oldest" R1 in the area, so they could pass it.
4. I doubt, that eyes colour have any significant % on the whole genome.
5. Black is black, even with blue eyes :p


Ok and? None of them were R1.

Au admix doesn't have to mean necessarly R1 - but it means, that R1 was in nearby.
Maybe - as in the case of Finchurians - it was passed by women, or R1 was not yet
found, becasue was not the main clade of the population. Some could be there.

http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/dsc09789-blackvikingsml-e1440699807863.jpg

[Rethel]

No need to fantasize like "we be dem sons of frozen northhhh" when neither UP Europeans nor Neanderthals (who lived in much harsher climate than the one nowadays or in Mesolithic) tested had light eyes.

More than that, all - ALL - the most northen populations have dark skin
and dark eyes. All. From Lapps through nenets to Chukchi and Eskimos.

If geographical lightening would be true, they all should be albinos.
They aren't. Simply, racial features are mostly not dependent on climate.
Certainly light is not, because dark pigmentation is in every climate sphere.

God created people differently, simply, because he wanted.

[Rethel]

Specially for Dick...

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/07/on-mesolithic-colonization-of.html

On the Mesolithic colonization of Scandinavia (Günther et al. 2017 preprint)

Over at bioRxiv at this link. The main takeaway point from this preprint is that Scandinavia was a more happening place than most of the rest of Europe during the Mesolithic, because at the time it was the meeting place between two relatively divergent forager groups, West European hunter-gatherers (WHG) and East European hunter-gatherers (EHG), that entered the peninsula from different directions, the southwest and northeast, respectively, and mixed to form Scandinavian hunter-gatherers (SHG). Other key points:

- EHG probably dispersed across Scandinavia in a counter-clockwise direction via an ice-free route along the Atlantic coast in what is now Norway, because SHG samples from northern and western Scandinavia show more EHG ancestry than those from southern and eastern Scandinavia

- at least 17% of the SNPs that are common in SHG are not found in present-day Europeans, suggesting that a large part of European variation has been lost since the Mesolithic

- although it's unlikely that SHG made a significant contribution to the present-day Northern European gene pool, some gene-variants common in SHG that appear to be associated with metabolic, cardiovascular, developmental and psychological traits are carried at high frequencies by present-day Northern Europeans, especially compared to present-day Southern Europeans, probably due to strong selective pressures specific to northern latitudes in Europe

- SHG is inferred to have had fair skin and varied blue to light-brown eye color, which makes sense considering that it was a mixture of apparently fair-skinned/brown-eyed EHG and dark-skinned/blue-eyed WHG, except that the frequencies of blue-eyed variants and one fair-skinned variant in SHG are much higher than expected from its EHG/WHG mixture ratios, again pointing to strong selective pressures specific to northern latitudes in Europe acting upon certain gene-variants

- a 3D computer generated facial reconstruction of an SHG female based on data from a very high (57x) coverage genome sequence looks, at least to me, like a fairly typical present-day Northern European woman (see Figure S9.1 in the supp info here), though I suspect that the result might be biased in some way, simply because it's impossible to know whether variants associated with specific facial traits in present-day Northern Europeans were also associated with the same facial traits in SHG

SHG = WHG+EHG. PERIOD.

[Rethel]

Reconstructed face with broad nose and darker skin:

https://abload.de/img/freconstructionqbjg2.png

[Rethel]

https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5647/54029168.5b/0_9b1cc_1d5ef020_orig.jpg

[Dick]

So you see...



1. Their colour of eyes is not sure.
2. Is not logical
3. There are "oldest" R1 in the area, so they could pass it.
4. I doubt, that eyes colour have any significant % on the whole genome.
5. Black is black, even with blue eyes :p



Au admix doesn't have to mean necessarly R1 - but it means, that R1 was in nearby.
Maybe - as in the case of Finchurians - it was passed by women, or R1 was not yet
found, becasue was not the main clade of the population. Some could be there.



You're an autistic retard lol. I wrecked you with actual proof and you quote me with this garbage?

[Dick]

https://i.giphy.com/media/Gt4FaBEFngjL2/giphy.webp