Thessaloniki vs Chios GEDmatch results with regard to similarity to Bulgaria and Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

These are both from Thessaloniki. They are like 1/3 Ukraine, 2/3 Sicily and much closer to Bulgaria than to Sicily.


#1:

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 30.45
2 North_European 28.42
3 Atlantic_Med 26.47
4 Southwest_Asian 7.93
5 Gedrosia 5.06
6 Northwest_African 0.69
7 Siberian 0.5
8 South_Asian 0.48

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 6.78
2 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 7.3
3 Romanians (Behar) 7.96
4 O_Italian (Dodecad) 9.25
5 Greek (Dodecad) 10.18
6 C_Italian (Dodecad) 13.18
7 Tuscan (HGDP) 13.93
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 14.3
9 N_Italian (Dodecad) 16.08
10 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 17.06
11 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.13
12 Sicilian (Dodecad) 17.16
13 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 17.38
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 18.77
15 Hungarians (Behar) 22.77
16 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 23.5
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 25.35
18 Baleares (1000Genomes) 26.71
19 Turkish (Dodecad) 27.05
20 German (Dodecad) 27.21

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.6% Romanians (Behar) + 31.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.5
2 68.7% Romanians (Behar) + 31.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.78
3 66.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 33.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.8
4 69.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 30.6% Hungarians (Behar) @ 1.93
5 72.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2
6 58.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 41.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.13
7 75.4% Romanians (Behar) + 24.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.23
8 72.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 27.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.24
9 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.3
10 69.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 30.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.3
11 67.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 32.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.36
12 70.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.4% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.47
13 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.5
14 75% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 25% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.52
15 73.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.4% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.52
16 68.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 31.5% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.58
17 63.2% Romanians (Behar) + 36.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.6
18 77% Romanians (Behar) + 23% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.6
19 56.7% Romanians (Behar) + 43.3% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.62
20 79.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.6% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.66


Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 20.21
2 West_Med 17.31
3 North_Sea 14.2
4 Atlantic 12.43
5 West_Asian 12.33
6 Baltic 11.03
7 Eastern_Euro 10.89
8 Red_Sea 1.27
9 Amerindian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.94
2 Greek 7.05
3 Bulgarian 7.49
4 Romanian 8.89
5 Central_Greek 10.94
6 Italian_Abruzzo 11.11
7 Tuscan 11.19
8 Serbian 11.51
9 Ashkenazi 11.6
10 East_Sicilian 12.29
11 West_Sicilian 12.79
12 North_Italian 14.11
13 South_Italian 14.49
14 Moldavian 16.38
15 Italian_Jewish 18.38
16 Croatian 18.82
17 Hungarian 18.9
18 Austrian 19.11
19 Sephardic_Jewish 19.59
20 Algerian_Jewish 19.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.6% Greek_Thessaly + 9.4% Chuvash @ 4.51
2 89.1% Greek_Thessaly + 10.9% Erzya @ 4.59
3 88.8% Greek_Thessaly + 11.2% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.61
4 73.9% Greek_Thessaly + 26.1% Serbian @ 4.63
5 61.3% Central_Greek + 38.7% Moldavian @ 4.64
6 92.3% Greek_Thessaly + 7.7% Mari @ 4.72
7 62.1% Greek_Thessaly + 37.9% Bulgarian @ 4.8
8 81.7% Greek_Thessaly + 18.3% Moldavian @ 4.81
9 68.2% Greek_Thessaly + 31.8% Romanian @ 4.82
10 89.7% Greek_Thessaly + 10.3% East_Finnish @ 4.82
11 71.7% Central_Greek + 28.3% Ukrainian @ 4.86
12 53.4% South_Italian + 46.6% Moldavian @ 4.88
13 89% Greek_Thessaly + 11% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.89
14 89.2% Greek_Thessaly + 10.8% Southwest_Russian @ 4.89
15 89.2% Greek_Thessaly + 10.8% Tatar @ 4.91
16 84.5% Greek_Thessaly + 15.5% Croatian @ 4.93
17 67.4% Greek + 32.6% Serbian @ 4.96
18 51.6% Central_Greek + 48.4% Serbian @ 4.96
19 89.5% Greek_Thessaly + 10.5% Polish @ 4.99
20 90.3% Greek_Thessaly + 9.7% Estonian_Polish @ 5



#2:

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 29.75
2 Caucasus 29.2
3 North_European 25.29
4 Southwest_Asian 8.55
5 Gedrosia 6
6 Siberian 0.86
7 Northwest_African 0.2
8 Southeast_Asian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 5.1
2 Greek (Dodecad) 9.27
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 9.55
4 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.97
5 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.21
6 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 10.94
7 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 11.15
8 Romanians (Behar) 11.68
9 N_Italian (Dodecad) 12.53
10 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.66
11 Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.8
12 North_Italian (HGDP) 15.08
13 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.05
14 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.17
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 21.56
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 23.14
17 Baleares (1000Genomes) 23.37
18 Galicia (1000Genomes) 24.29
19 Hungarians (Behar) 24.88
20 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 24.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.9% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.5
2 79.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.4% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.69
3 79.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.5% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.73
4 76.2% Greek (Dodecad) + 23.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.74
5 79.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.6% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.78
6 77.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.7% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.87
7 78.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.9% English (Dodecad) @ 1.91
8 78.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.9% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.91
9 77.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.2% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.97
10 78.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.2% British (Dodecad) @ 1.98
11 69.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.01
12 63.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 36.9% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.05
13 78.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.4% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.08
14 78.9% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.1% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.12
15 71.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 28.3% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.37
16 70.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.39
17 81.2% Greek (Dodecad) + 18.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.42
18 82.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 17.6% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.53
19 51.8% Cypriots (Behar) + 48.2% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.68
20 76% Greek (Dodecad) + 24% German (Dodecad) @ 2.78


Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.09
2 Atlantic 18.36
3 West_Med 14.22
4 North_Sea 12.1
5 Baltic 12.04
6 West_Asian 10.97
7 Eastern_Euro 6.28
8 Red_Sea 3.89
9 Amerindian 0.44
10 Siberian 0.31
11 Oceanian 0.28
12 Southeast_Asian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek 5.41
2 Bulgarian 6.8
3 Greek_Thessaly 7
4 Tuscan 8.08
5 Italian_Abruzzo 8.27
6 Romanian 8.75
7 West_Sicilian 9.51
8 Central_Greek 9.88
9 East_Sicilian 10.54
10 Ashkenazi 10.7
11 North_Italian 11.78
12 Serbian 11.81
13 South_Italian 12.73
14 Italian_Jewish 16.71
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17.16
16 Austrian 17.84
17 Moldavian 17.91
18 Algerian_Jewish 17.94
19 Spanish_Extremadura 18.28
20 Portuguese 18.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.5% South_Italian + 41.5% Austrian @ 2
2 59% Bulgarian + 41% West_Sicilian @ 2.18
3 52.2% Romanian + 47.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.38
4 81.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 18.9% Lithuanian @ 2.43
5 86.2% Greek + 13.8% Irish @ 2.44
6 79.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.6% Belorussian @ 2.46
7 79.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.5% Estonian_Polish @ 2.48
8 86.5% Greek + 13.5% West_Scottish @ 2.49
9 84.8% Greek + 15.2% North_German @ 2.5
10 78.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 21.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.57
11 86.2% Greek + 13.8% Danish @ 2.61
12 85.8% Greek + 14.2% Southeast_English @ 2.61
13 86.3% Greek + 13.7% North_Dutch @ 2.62
14 75.5% West_Sicilian + 24.5% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.69
15 78.8% West_Sicilian + 21.2% Lithuanian @ 2.7
16 87.2% Greek + 12.8% Orcadian @ 2.72
17 75.7% West_Sicilian + 24.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.73
18 83.1% Greek + 16.9% South_Dutch @ 2.76
19 65% Central_Greek + 35% Austrian @ 2.77
20 77% West_Sicilian + 23% Belorussian @ 2.81



Now, this is from the island of Chios. The opposite is true.


#1:

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38
2 Atlantic_Med 26.19
3 North_European 12.67
4 Southwest_Asian 12.25
5 Gedrosia 7.24
6 Northwest_African 2.89
7 Southeast_Asian 0.75

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.31
2 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 4.83
3 Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.89
4 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.43
5 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7.93
6 Greek (Dodecad) 8.55
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.22
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 11.66
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 14.51
10 Cypriots (Behar) 14.65
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.15
12 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.56
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 16.57
14 Turks (Behar) 19.23
15 Lebanese (Behar) 19.78
16 Druze (HGDP) 22.24
17 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 22.71
18 Syrians (Behar) 22.84
19 N_Italian (Dodecad) 22.9
20 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 23.09

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.4% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 1.75
2 87.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 12.2% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 1.76
3 69.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.3% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 1.77
4 90% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10% Lezgins (Behar) @ 1.88
5 89.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.6% Adygei (HGDP) @ 1.95
6 89.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.1% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.98
7 89.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.3% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 2.02
8 86.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) @ 2.03
9 76.4% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.6% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.05
10 83.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.5% Turks (Behar) @ 2.08
11 71.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 28.5% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.09
12 86.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.6% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.1
13 81.3% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.7% Turks (Behar) @ 2.11
14 88.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.2% Lezgins (Behar) @ 2.14
15 81.5% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.5% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.16
16 76.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.3% British (Dodecad) @ 2.16
17 73.1% Cypriots (Behar) + 26.9% French (Dodecad) @ 2.19
18 79% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.2
19 88.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.4% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.25
20 86.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 13.2% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.25


Eurogenes:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.8
2 West_Med 18.51
3 West_Asian 18.09
4 Atlantic 10.26
5 North_Sea 9.98
6 Red_Sea 6.01
7 Baltic 5.93
8 Southeast_Asian 0.81
9 Northeast_African 0.53
10 Oceanian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.4
2 Central_Greek 5.3
3 East_Sicilian 5.49
4 Ashkenazi 8
5 Italian_Jewish 8.05
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.58
7 Sephardic_Jewish 9.14
8 Algerian_Jewish 10.06
9 West_Sicilian 10.33
10 Greek_Thessaly 11.42
11 Greek 11.94
12 Cyprian 12.25
13 Tunisian_Jewish 12.48
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.33
15 Tuscan 14.12
16 Lebanese_Muslim 15.66
17 Turkish 16.61
18 Syrian 16.7
19 Samaritan 19.05
20 Bulgarian 19.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.5% South_Italian + 11.5% Armenian @ 3.42
2 89.4% South_Italian + 10.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.59
3 93.2% South_Italian + 6.8% Georgian @ 3.59
4 93.9% South_Italian + 6.1% Abhkasian @ 3.61
5 89.1% South_Italian + 10.9% Assyrian @ 3.67
6 94% South_Italian + 6% Ossetian @ 3.77
7 92.9% South_Italian + 7.1% Kumyk @ 3.81
8 94.4% South_Italian + 5.6% North_Ossetian @ 3.83
9 94% South_Italian + 6% Adygei @ 3.84
10 91% South_Italian + 9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.85
11 76.2% Central_Greek + 23.8% Cyprian @ 3.85
12 94.1% South_Italian + 5.9% Balkar @ 3.86
13 88.8% South_Italian + 11.2% Turkish @ 3.9
14 84.7% Central_Greek + 15.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.9
15 94.4% South_Italian + 5.6% Lezgin @ 3.9
16 84.7% East_Sicilian + 15.3% Armenian @ 3.91
17 94.4% South_Italian + 5.6% Kabardin @ 3.91
18 94.7% South_Italian + 5.3% Chechen @ 3.91
19 92.3% South_Italian + 7.7% Kurdish @ 3.93
20 94.7% South_Italian + 5.3% Tabassaran @ 3.93

[Percivalle]

I have seen the GEDcom of the first one. He is indeed from Thessaloniki, Central Macedonia, Greece, but his grandfather was born in Dojran, and Dojran is a municipality in southeastern part of Republic of Macedonia. Greek minority in Macedonia or of Macedonian origin?

[Sikeliot]

I have seen the GEDcom of the first one. He is indeed from Thessaloniki, Central Macedonia, Greece, but his grandfather was born in Dojran, and Dojran is a municipality in southeastern part of Republic of Macedonia. Greek minority in Macedonia or of Macedonian origin?


Both are fully Greek. Anyway it is well known that many people in northern Greece are descended from Greek speaking people from other neighboring regions and Anatolia.

[Sikeliot]

I have seen the GEDcom of the first one. He is indeed from Thessaloniki, Central Macedonia, Greece, but his grandfather was born in Dojran, and Dojran is a municipality in southeastern part of Republic of Macedonia. Greek minority in Macedonia or of Macedonian origin?


If someone from Pontus who is basically a Hellenized Georgian or Armenian can be "Greek" so can Greek speakers from the rest of the Balkans who now also moved across the border. With this said, I think most northern Greek results look like this.

[Percivalle]

Anyway it is well known that many people in northern Greece are descended from Greek speaking people from other neighboring regions and Anatolia.

Yeah, I've seen quite a good number of people, especially in Northern Greece, who have some of their ancestors born in Asia Minor.

[Sikeliot]

Yeah, I've seen quite a good number of people, especially in Northern Greece, who have some of their ancestors born in Asia Minor.

What is interesting is I have seen an Istanbul Greek who also is not far genetically from Bulgarians.

It is obvious the northernmost regions: Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace, Thessaly, and Western Greece (which I posted here: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?215764-Very-north-shifted-result-from-Agios-Vasilios-Western-Greece) all have a significant shift toward NE Europe.

[Sikeliot]

Other thoughts on this?

[catgeorge]

To do this right and to support our thesis - you need to add one from Bulgaria . Otherwise it makes no sense - both Greeks and Bulgarians share the Pontid and Dinarid influences.

Bulgarians don't have the Atlanto Meds and Alpines
Greeks don't have the Gorids and Baltids.

But we share Mediterranean, Pontid and Dinarid.

genetically speaking Bulgarians are closer to Romanians and Greeks would come soon after

[Sikeliot]

To do this right and to support our thesis - you need to add one from Bulgaria . Otherwise it makes no sense - both Greeks and Bulgarians share the Pontid and Dinarid influences.

Bulgarians don't have the Atlanto Meds and Alpines
Greeks don't have the Gorids and Baltids.

But we share Mediterranean, Pontid and Dinarid.

genetically speaking Bulgarians are closer to Romanians and Greeks would come soon after


I don't have Bulgarian results, but the point is these people shift so far north that they are not only closer to Bulgarians than to the islanders, but considerably closer.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks don't have the Gorids and Baltids.

Ignore outdated anthropology texts and look around.. you clearly do.

[catgeorge]

I don't have Bulgarian results, but the point is these people shift so far north that they are not only closer to Bulgarians than to the islanders, but considerably closer.

One thing you need to keep in mind you are no Dienekis.

But nonetheless.. you can use your imagination on their autosomals

https://preview.ibb.co/i4hcAQ/bulgarians.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/MDS_analysis_of_Europe.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/PLOS_3.PNG

In other words Bulgarians are the heaviest influenced "Byzantines" out of all Balkanites

[catgeorge]

In other words Sikeliot - as always, your analysis is bogus.

[Sikeliot]

In other words Sikeliot - as always, your analysis is bogus.

Yet you've done nothing to refute it. You posted haplogroups, and some chart showing Greeks close to Bulgarians not realizing the closeness is because of both Greek-like admixture in Bulgarians AND Slavic DNA in Greece.

No one who is Greek and plotting halfway between Sicily and Hungary is not significantly NE European influenced. you just want to pretend it wouldn't also be true for you.

[catgeorge]

Yet you've done nothing to refute it. You posted haplogroups, and some chart showing Greeks close to Bulgarians not realizing the closeness is because of both Greek-like admixture in Bulgarians AND Slavic DNA in Greece.

No one who is Greek and plotting halfway between Sicily and Hungary is not significantly NE European influenced. you just want to pretend it wouldn't also be true for you.

Your arguement will only hold water in a holistic approach - it is far too one way and therefore your analysis is bogus.

[Sikeliot]

Your arguement will only hold water in a holistic approach - it is far too one way and therefore your analysis is bogus.

The point is, these Greeks are shifted so much toward NE Europe compared to the average that it should be noteworthy.

[catgeorge]

The point is, these Greeks are shifted so much toward NE Europe compared to the average that it should be noteworthy.

The problem is - you are struggling.

You are trying to compare North Greeks (Epirots, Macedonians and Thracians) with Sicilians. Although there are some affinities we are still a fair distance.

You are struggling with the following

Bulgarians are equidistant with their neighbours
Cretans are equidistant with their neighbours
Cypriots are equidistant with their neighbours
Albanians are equidistant with their neighbours
Thessalians are equidistant with their neighbours
Fyromskis are equidistant with their neighbours
North Greeks are equidistant with their neighbours

So logically the affinities between North Greeks and Sicilians is a slight variance between Cretans and Sicilians. Io si kapish?

But one thing is for sure - no matter how hard you try - Sicilians will never be Greeks.

[nightrider+]

Sikeliot had to use a person born in FYROM to prove his point that Greeks are heavily Slavicised. :icon_lol:

Funny how the second sample gets extra Scottish/Irish/Dutch/German etc instead of Slavic.

[Sikeliot]

But one thing is for sure - no matter how hard you try - Sicilians will never be Greeks.

YOU are the one who wants Greeks to be like Sicilians so you don't have to admit to having elevated NE European affinity. Cretans are far closer to Sicilians than they are to you from a genetic standpoint, also.

[brennus dux gallorum]

The first one is an outlier, and I think that the fact that he had an ancestor from fyrom counts. Greek is the 5th closest distance after not only Bulgaria but Romania as well. I think the second is a little more typical for his area, but I have to see more results from thessaloniki to compare

[Sikeliot]

The first one is an outlier, and I think that the fact that he had an ancestor from fyrom counts. Greek is the 5th closest distance after not only Bulgaria but Romania as well. I think the second is a little more typical for his area, but I have to see more results from thessaloniki to compare


The way I see it is if Greek speaking Armenians from Pontus are Greek so is the first guy here.

[nightrider+]

The way I see it is if Greek speaking Armenians from Pontus are Greek so is the first guy here.

The way you see it is that they are Hellenised Armenians, as you've told us countless times, so this guy is a Hellenised Slav according to your point of view. You can't have your pie and eat it too. It's like trying to attribute the West Asian admixture of Peloponnesians to Pontic Greeks.

[Lavrentis]

There are people in northern Greece who are descended from Slavic people. There are still villages in northern Greece who speak a Slavic dialect.

And the first guy has recent ancestry from FYROM.


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[Lavrentis]

The way I see it is if Greek speaking Armenians from Pontus are Greek so is the first guy here.

Yes they are Greek, but when we're talking about genetics we have to point out if they have Pontian ancestry since Pontians plot in West Asia. The guy you used is Greek, but has recent ancestry from FYROM, his results are not surprising.




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[brennus dux gallorum]

Pontians are neither transplanted Greeks, nor hellenized Caucasians/Armenians, but something intermediate