Dispelling the myth that Sicilians overall "cluster with" Peloponnesian Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Two kinds of people perpetuate this myth across anthrofora:

A. Mainland Greeks who do not want to recognize the northern influence that differentiates themselves from Aegean islanders and southern Italians
B. Southern Italians who wish to make themselves genetically less "outlying" like Cretans and more on par with mainland Greeks.

But it is not true and a few factors need to be taken into consideration. I will dispel this notion part by part.

Paschou et al. 2014: http://www.pnas.org/content/111/25/9211.abstract

This is the key study people use to perpetuate this myth.

In this paper, a Sicilian sample from southeastern Sicily, near the Catania/Syracuse border, is used. We all know this is the part of Sicily that is more mainland Greek like, or intermediate between "regular" Sicilians and southern Greeks.

Despite this, the paper blatantly states the following:

"The connections between Crete and the rest of Greece (South East-Laconia → Peloponnese → Macedonia) as well as the populations of Sicily and Italy are evident. Analyses were performed by using the top three to seven PCs (SI Appendix, Figs. S6 and S7) and results were robust regardless of the number of principal components used. The geographic proximity and partial overlap in the PCA of Crete and Sicily is also compatible with gene flow from Crete to Italy and to Southern Europe through population movements along the Southern Mediterranean coast."

On the PCA, you can clearly see that the Sicilians partly overlap with Crete and are close to SE Laconia, the "southernmost" or most exotic part of mainland Greece. Yes, one of the more Greek-shifted parts of Sicily, with a strong Doric Greek presence, is partly overlapping with Crete still, but slightly mainland shifted and overlapping with the area of mainland Greece that has more ancient affinity to Crete. If you used a Palermitan or Messinese sample from Sicily, you'd see them more like the Dodecanese or fully overlapping with Crete and more differentiated from Peloponnese.

On the map you can see exactly where each sample is from.

http://i.imgur.com/fb0WAwb.png

This is the admixture chart, arranged from most Near Eastern to most European, left to right. As you see, this Sicily sample is smack dab in the middle between Crete and SE Laconia, meaning it is more Near Eastern than Laconia, less than Crete.

Conclusion:The study never says they overlap with the "Peloponnese" it specifically says SE Laconia and partially with Crete. SE Laconia, too, is transitional from the rest of the mainland to the islands. We already know SE Sicily does this. Stop misquoting this study to claim something that is false. Next!


Sarno et al 2017: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

Sarno et al, released this year, blatantly states that Sicilians and southern Italians are more similar to Greek islanders and Cypriots than to mainland Greece, who are differentiated by their elevated North and East European admixture.

This study has a MUCH MORE DIVERSE Sicilian sample than Paschou et al.

The study says this: "Our results reveal a shared Mediterranean genetic continuity, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, where Southern Italian populations appear genetically closer to Greek-speaking islands than to continental Greece."

As well as this:

"In particular, Sicily and Southern Italy (SSI) appear as belonging to a wide and homogeneous genetic domain, which is shared by large portions of the present-day South-Eastern Euro-Mediterranean area, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, through Crete, Aegean-Dodecanese and Anatolian Greek Islands. We will refer to this domain as ‘Mediterranean genetic continuum’. On the other hand, the continental part of Greece, including Peloponnesus, appears as slightly differentiated, by clustering with the other Southern Balkan populations of Albania and Kosovo."

And why exactly is this the case? See here.

"Population expansions during the Middle Ages, for instance those related to the Slavic migrations, could have affected Albania and Continental Greece at least indirectly as a result of subsequent population contacts. We may therefore hypothesize that present-day mainland Greek and Southern Balkan populations detached from a genetic background originally shared with the ‘Mediterranean genetic continuum’ (i.e. Southern Italy and the Mediterranean Greek-islands) after these recent events which interested the Balkan Peninsula in historical times."

This is the admixture chart. As you can see, Sicilians and Calabrese are clearly closest to the Cretans and even Dodecanese (though here, Dodecanese have less of the red component and simply heightened Caucasian affinity), and have not only much more of the red "Near East" component than do mainland Greeks, but less of the blue "WHG" one. Still, all of these groups are dominated by the native Mediterranean "Sardinian" like component.

http://i.imgur.com/YK4CGM1.png


Peloponnese Greek study: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v25/n5/full/ejhg201718a.html

This study does in fact claim that Sicilians are close to Peloponnesian Greeks, but consider why this is.. it is because many of the Peloponnese used in the study are from areas with very little Slavic affinity. Still, on the full Europe PCA plot you can see that some of the Peloponnesians plot near Sicily and others are drifting to Tuscany. The ones near Sicily would be your Tsakonians, isolated Maniots, and so on who are again close to the Sicilian sample from SE Sicily used in Paschou et al. A more diverse Sicilian sample would show many people NOT plotting near the Peloponnese at all.

The study mentions some Peloponnesians have up to 14% Slavic influence: these are the ones who do not plot with Sicilians and drift north:

http://i.imgur.com/dDrccKf.png

Conclusion: A study with a more diverse Sicilian sample would show some people who do not even plot with Laconians and other Maniots, and the Peloponnese with Slavic influence certainly leave this cluster altogether.


GEDmatch evidence using MDLP K23:

MDLP K23 has a Peloponnese and a Cretan reference population. Here are several Sicilians from different regions. You can see they are closer to Cretans, by far, and not Peloponnese, and many even closer to Smyrna Greeks and North African Jews. Most do not even get Peloponnese on their top 20, EXCEPT southeastern Sicilians (Ragusa and Syracuse) which correspond to the sample in Paschou et al, from extreme southern Catania right near the Syracuse border.


Palermo:


#1:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East_ @ 3.150239
2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 3.601393
3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 4.434644
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.571196
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.577428
6 French_Jew_ @ 4.926517
7 Maltese_ @ 5.157744
8 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.485222
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.784578
10 Cretan_ @ 5.882085
11 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.048171
12 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.925311
13 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.105077
14 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.122460
15 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.292678
16 Italian_South_ @ 7.501063
17 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.029533
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 9.361027
19 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 9.485943
20 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 9.536835


#2:
east-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East_ @ 1.973876
2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 3.353101
3 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 3.650116
4 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 4.515003
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.661353
6 Ashkenazi_ @ 4.811002
7 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.991867
8 Maltese_ @ 5.141637
9 French_Jew_ @ 5.245653
10 Romanian_Jew_ @ 5.400236
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.066857
12 Cretan_ @ 6.119672
13 Italian_South_ @ 6.610550
14 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.721535
15 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.984770
16 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.163013
17 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.177505
18 Greek_ @ 8.889999
19 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.974410
20 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 9.444646


#3:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French_Jew_ @ 3.121720
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.364143
3 Maltese_ @ 3.940984
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.678215
5 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.292650
6 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 5.400233
7 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.408387
8 Sicilian_West_ @ 5.413849
9 Italian_Jew_ @ 5.439331
10 Turk_Jew_ @ 5.575489
11 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.805711
12 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 7.432797
13 Cretan_ @ 7.662037
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.826815
15 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.117446
16 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.198680
17 Italian_South_ @ 9.458352
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.044790
19 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 10.452760
20 Greek_Islands_ @ 10.520090

#4:

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 5.407812
2 French_Jew_ @ 5.514675
3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.906076
4 Turk_Jew_ @ 5.923426
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.577747
6 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.708899
7 Maltese_ @ 6.866210
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.081246
9 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.279457
10 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 7.428397
11 Cretan_ @ 7.700623
12 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.047595
13 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.409288
14 Syrian_Jew_ @ 9.822048
15 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.871379
16 Ashkenazi_ @ 10.207126
17 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.305385
18 Sicilian_Center_ @ 10.980289
19 Libyan_Jew_ @ 11.195664
20 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 11.329981


#5:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.556077
2 French_Jew_ @ 3.569541
3 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.661517
4 Sicilian_West_ @ 5.135005
5 Maltese_ @ 5.156085
6 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 5.191087
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.317751
8 Turk_Jew_ @ 5.405573
9 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.469141
10 Italian_Jew_ @ 5.479840
11 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.631756
12 Cretan_ @ 6.963921
13 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.899130
14 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.929976
15 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 8.220093
16 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.360181
17 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.654344
18 Italian_South_ @ 9.278377
19 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.408753
20 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 9.544765


Messina:


#1:
Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French_Jew_ @ 4.768489
2 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.996832
3 Sicilian_Center_ @ 5.216733
4 Italian_Jew_ @ 5.443889
5 Greek_Islands_ @ 5.875965
6 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.029273
7 Cretan_ @ 6.060372
8 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.206831
9 Italian_South_ @ 6.457253
10 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 6.458184
11 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.877308
12 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.987318
13 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.041468
14 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.269638
15 Maltese_ @ 7.659130
16 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.718918
17 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.497770
18 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.802525
19 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 9.048246
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.235208

#2:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.494007
2 French_Jew_ @ 4.711267
3 Sicilian_Center_ @ 5.090245
4 Cretan_ @ 5.268915
5 Romanian_Jew_ @ 5.293564
6 Italian_Jew_ @ 5.627250
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.977905
8 Italian_South_ @ 5.999342
9 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.045859
10 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.176525
11 Greek_Islands_ @ 6.226830
12 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.714773
13 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.918391
14 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.040434
15 Maltese_ @ 7.238829
16 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.260376
17 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.095000
18 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.168953
19 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.479605
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.632577


#3:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 French_Jew_ @ 4.901930
2 Greek_Islands_ @ 6.135380
3 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 6.216229
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.329736
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.737360
6 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.887589
7 Cretan_ @ 7.014100
8 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.124535
9 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.197167
10 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.532124
11 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.800222
12 Italian_South_ @ 7.829861
13 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.870563
14 Maltese_ @ 7.872652
15 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 8.044482
16 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.170243
17 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.522024
18 Ashkenazi_ @ 9.231515
19 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.947087
20 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 10.635830


#4:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 2.794643
2 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.080441
3 Italian_South_ @ 6.384857
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.554071
5 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 6.710121
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.053045
7 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.274443
8 French_Jew_ @ 7.661750
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.830818
10 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.006741
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.182134
12 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.407443
13 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.594931
14 Greek_ @ 8.656821
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.688415
16 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.753735
17 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.950588
18 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 8.991338
19 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 9.146466
20 Sicilian_West_ @ 9.190630


#5:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.778391
2 Cretan_ @ 5.967934
3 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.170453
4 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.125654
5 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.169412
6 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.577369
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.738176
8 French_Jew_ @ 8.040182
9 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 8.154254
10 Italian_South_ @ 8.560965
11 Maltese_ @ 8.566490
12 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.671895
13 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 9.070448
14 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 9.110039
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 9.127998
16 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.337964
17 Greek_ @ 9.455583
18 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.647223
19 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 9.739524
20 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 10.418631



Catania:


#1:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East_ @ 3.968754
2 Cretan_ @ 5.016879
3 French_Jew_ @ 5.099727
4 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.233117
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.564284
6 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.671755
7 Romanian_Jew_ @ 5.824347
8 Italian_South_ @ 6.124711
9 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.277349
10 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.314212
11 Maltese_ @ 6.612792
12 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.625495
13 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 6.645968
14 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.344546
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.868814
16 Greek_Athens_ @ 7.894326
17 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.139286
18 Greek_Islands_ @ 8.171991
19 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.323780
20 Greek_ @ 9.196507


#2:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.804792
2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.464146
3 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.807765
4 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.157026
5 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.925992
6 Italian_South_ @ 7.090545
7 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.211000
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.307272
9 French_Jew_ @ 7.321115
10 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.775915
11 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.179256
12 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.226952
13 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.410767
14 Greek_ @ 8.526831
15 Maltese_ @ 8.571871
16 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.587276
17 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 8.841120
18 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.863542
19 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.870218
20 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.882329


#3:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.446672
2 French_Jew_ @ 3.967329
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.078878
4 Maltese_ @ 4.080177
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.735708
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.079896
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.484885
8 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.502417
9 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.657461
10 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.842849
11 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.147540
12 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.956237
13 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.691305
14 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 8.714834
15 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.915768
16 Cretan_ @ 9.100749
17 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.404885
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.322831
19 Italian_South_ @ 10.378404
20 Greek_Islands_ @ 11.210558


#4:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East_ @ 2.789693
2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 3.637772
3 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.042263
4 Romanian_Jew_ @ 4.884195
5 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.018610
6 Cretan_ @ 5.232049
7 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.441072
8 French_Jew_ @ 5.464113
9 Sicilian_West_ @ 5.578589
10 Sicilian_Center_ @ 5.688408
11 Italian_South_ @ 5.974278
12 Maltese_ @ 6.118351
13 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 6.157211
14 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.466244
15 Turk_Jew_ @ 7.660711
16 Greek_Athens_ @ 7.687399
17 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.088309
18 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.164819
19 Greek_ @ 8.423234
20 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.554026

#5:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.523729
2 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.544694
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.404146
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.335043
5 Maltese_ @ 5.543087
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.639758
7 French_Jew_ @ 5.871430
8 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.355658
9 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.408466
10 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.606023
11 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.161934
12 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.234560
13 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.871678
14 Cretan_ @ 8.888747
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.390847
16 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.500942
17 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 10.224552
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.371304
19 Italian_South_ @ 10.715949
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 11.761418



Agrigento:


#1:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.044480
2 French_Jew_ @ 5.585514
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.929333
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.037407
5 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.040819
6 Maltese_ @ 6.152665
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 6.496278
8 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.684661
9 Cretan_ @ 7.954679
10 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.084387
11 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.222276
12 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.486123
13 Italian_South_ @ 8.720894
14 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.744043
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.827997
16 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.874063
17 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 9.166216
18 Turk_Jew_ @ 9.598043
19 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.882872
20 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.891238


#2:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.861366
2 Sicilian_West_ @ 5.195050
3 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.241194
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.250585
5 Cretan_ @ 5.434274
6 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.088779
7 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.333662
8 French_Jew_ @ 6.638715
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.850526
10 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 7.092403
11 Maltese_ @ 7.503761
12 Sicilian_Center_ @ 7.662477
13 Italian_South_ @ 7.770929
14 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.018122
15 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.198859
16 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.371699
17 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.379273
18 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.584674
19 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.685699
20 Greek_ @ 9.088465

#3:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 3.976988
2 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.290931
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 4.435159
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.830875
5 Ashkenazi_ @ 4.841483
6 Sicilian_Center_ @ 5.554884
7 Italian_South_ @ 6.254442
8 Cretan_ @ 6.336406
9 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.487743
10 Maltese_ @ 6.904207
11 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.909911
12 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 6.912901
13 French_Jew_ @ 7.106334
14 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 7.263059
15 Greek_Athens_ @ 7.772990
16 Greek_ @ 8.117926
17 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.375264
18 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.451894
19 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 9.318381
20 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 9.512785


#4:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.694339
2 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 3.690975
3 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.793341
4 Maltese_ @ 4.308319
5 French_Jew_ @ 4.539017
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.906059
7 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.035944
8 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.846436
9 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.516083
10 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.555684
11 Italian_Jew_ @ 7.840287
12 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.103882
13 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.173418
14 Cretan_ @ 8.375677
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.455480
16 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.636084
17 Italian_South_ @ 9.576669
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 9.707111
19 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 9.882120
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.875252


#5:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 5.341793
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.420531
3 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.570944
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.200271
5 Maltese_ @ 6.520250
6 French_Jew_ @ 6.611096
7 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 7.085169
8 Cretan_ @ 7.126055
9 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.241658
10 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 7.870277
11 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.087237
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.327140
13 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.344472
14 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.486497
15 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 9.820114
16 Italian_South_ @ 10.002783
17 Sicilian_Center_ @ 10.048755
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.543817
19 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 10.546955
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.956947



Caltanissetta:


#1:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 2.845495
2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 3.900043
3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 4.334786
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.453557
5 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.564943
6 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.699460
7 Maltese_ @ 5.123441
8 French_Jew_ @ 6.380839
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.478080
10 Cretan_ @ 7.530817
11 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.554791
12 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.612282
13 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.663807
14 Turk_Jew_ @ 8.771490
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 8.902120
16 Italian_South_ @ 9.048495
17 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 9.177526
18 Greek_Athens_ @ 9.837667
19 Greek_ @ 10.188477
20 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 10.537210


#2:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 2.861315
2 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.421393
3 Maltese_ @ 3.566539
4 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.077774
5 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.204833
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.297757
7 French_Jew_ @ 4.496070
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.789489
9 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.813919
10 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.941708
11 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.941759
12 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.273798
13 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.678531
14 Cretan_ @ 7.764060
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.183866
16 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 8.680189
17 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 9.265414
18 Italian_South_ @ 9.386712
19 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.528207
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.744456


#3:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.087771
2 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.733250
3 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.307970
4 Maltese_ @ 6.332794
5 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 6.593535
6 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.113175
7 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.453478
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.537981
9 French_Jew_ @ 8.393455
10 Ashkenazi_ @ 9.812906
11 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 10.141063
12 Italian_Tuscan_ @ 10.407131
13 Turk_Jew_ @ 10.588393
14 Italian_Jew_ @ 10.668991
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 11.078276
16 Romanian_Jew_ @ 11.159310
17 Cretan_ @ 11.415326
18 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 11.830162
19 Italian_South_ @ 12.634178
20 Italian_Piedmont_ @ 12.634235


#4:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 2.370434
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 4.083702
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.424206
4 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.577603
5 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.591331
6 Maltese_ @ 5.672849
7 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.806962
8 French_Jew_ @ 6.753391
9 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 8.160999
10 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.318385
11 Cretan_ @ 8.608108
12 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 8.651263
13 Turk_Jew_ @ 9.144859
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.238473
15 Italian_Jew_ @ 9.347874
16 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.857786
17 Italian_South_ @ 10.606323
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 10.906242
19 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 10.914769
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 11.245426


#5:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_East_ @ 3.304714
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 3.438651
3 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 3.442430
4 French_Jew_ @ 4.077088
5 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.666287
6 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.753376
7 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.970164
8 Maltese_ @ 5.112107
9 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.299406
10 Italian_Jew_ @ 6.378134
11 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 6.656217
12 Turk_Jew_ @ 6.687630
13 Cretan_ @ 6.783202
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.850306
15 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.918174
16 Italian_South_ @ 7.920967
17 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.994647
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.326910
19 Greek_Islands_ @ 8.810225
20 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 9.538798



Southeast Sicily: We have a winner!


#1:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.098921
2 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.272447
3 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 6.125835
4 Sicilian_West_ @ 6.859781
5 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 6.890028
6 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.136246
7 Greek_ @ 7.264215
8 Central_Greek_ @ 7.357910
9 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.533345
10 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 7.537695
11 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 7.593434
12 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.038240
13 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 8.103490
14 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.234294
15 Greek_Northwest_ @ 8.272680
16 Albanian_Tirana_ @ 8.326913
17 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.711685
18 Italian_South_ @ 8.725285
19 Maltese_ @ 9.190999
20 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 9.199603


#2:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.199259
2 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.761655
3 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.763894
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 4.835297
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.261105
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 5.444602
7 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.485544
8 Maltese_ @ 6.536126
9 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.316641
10 Romanian_Jew_ @ 7.458840
11 French_Jew_ @ 7.566371
12 Cretan_ @ 7.649983
13 Italian_South_ @ 8.263099
14 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.360852
15 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.463666
16 Central_Greek_ @ 9.215370
17 Greek_ @ 9.291619
18 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 9.620422
19 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 9.882830
20 Greek_Northwest_ @ 10.325708


#3:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.690087
2 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 4.827728
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.910239
4 Maltese_ @ 5.303923
5 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.596353
6 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 6.808868
7 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.584023
8 French_Jew_ @ 7.707472
9 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 8.592913
10 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 9.260372
11 Turk_Jew_ @ 9.592903
12 Ashkenazi_ @ 9.762136
13 Italian_Jew_ @ 9.827826
14 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 10.563900
15 Romanian_Jew_ @ 10.583311
16 Cretan_ @ 10.881516
17 Sicilian_Center_ @ 11.143689
18 Italian_Tuscan_ @ 11.895582
19 Italian_South_ @ 12.528769
20 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 13.074504


#4:
1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.583396
2 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.038279
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.286653
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.972106
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 6.141418
6 Sicilian_East_ @ 6.623224
7 Ashkenazi_ @ 6.775945
8 Maltese_ @ 6.995175
9 Romanian_Jew_ @ 8.069411
10 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 8.252813
11 Cretan_ @ 8.806304
12 Central_Greek_ @ 8.851194
13 French_Jew_ @ 8.971428
14 Greek_Athens_ @ 8.975439
15 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 9.096297
16 Greek_Northwest_ @ 9.138174
17 Italian_South_ @ 9.345770
18 Greek_ @ 9.432278
19 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.720795
20 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 10.147893


#5:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 3.880068
2 Sicilian_West_ @ 3.952147
3 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 4.105109
4 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.205952
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.570343
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 6.516419
7 Maltese_ @ 6.764032
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.110904
9 Italian_Tuscan_ @ 7.606345
10 Ashkenazi_ @ 8.175698
11 French_Jew_ @ 8.962283
12 Romanian_Jew_ @ 9.460002
13 Sicilian_Center_ @ 9.493291
14 Greek_Northwest_ @ 10.104075
15 Italian_Piedmont_ @ 10.187801
16 Central_Greek_ @ 10.261395
17 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 10.305134
18 Greek_Athens_ @ 10.575959
19 Italian_South_ @ 10.579081
20 Cretan_ @ 10.630919

[Myanthropologies]

I can't believe people thought they cluster with Greeks. They cluster with Ashkenazi & Sefardic Jews, Greek Islanders, Maltese, and Calabrians.

Apuilans seem to cluster with Peloponessians though.

[Sikeliot]

I can't believe people thought they cluster with Greeks. They cluster with Ashkenazi & Sefardic Jews, Greek Islanders, Maltese, and Calabrians.

Apuilans seem to cluster with Peloponessians though.


SE Sicilians are closer to Peloponnesians or equidistant to them and Cretans, but that's because part of their ancestry comes from there. What is clear is these populations are all Europeans indeed and differentiated from West Asians, but there is a mainland/islands divide whether people want to see it or not.

[Sikeliot]

Based on the above it's obvious where the sample is from in Paschou but we shouldn't assume it's typical island wide because it isn't.

[Queen B]

Dude, noone care about those cluster-fucks but you.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Both medds

[Tauromachos]

I can't believe people thought they cluster with Greeks. They cluster with Ashkenazi & Sefardic Jews, Greek Islanders, Maltese, and Calabrians.

Apuilans seem to cluster with Peloponessians though.

Nope,Dude
Greek Islanders are diverse and Jews don't have to do alot with the Greek Islands.
Sephardic Jews have to do with Spain

[MysteriousWays]

Nope,Dude
Greek Islanders are diverse and Jews don't have to do alot with the Greek Islands.
Sephardic Jews have to do with Spain

Genetically, sephardim have very little to do with Spanish people.

[Dorian]

As I've said before,unless there is a massive genetic research for all Greeks with a detailed record of family trees ,their histories and a record about the hundreds of internal population movements these assumptions mean nothing,you can't see 1000 results and make assumptions for dozen millions of people.

[Tauromachos]

Genetically, sephardim have very little to do with Spanish people.

They haven't much to do with Greek Islanders either.

[Tauromachos]

As for Greece,do you know which place in Greece had the biggest Jewish community and most Jewish influence.

Thessaloniki,
in northern Greece,not the Greek Islands.
In Israel there are still Greek Jews who talk about Thessaloniki as their original hometown,speak Greek and
listen to Greek songs.
There are also Greek style songs in hebrew

[MysteriousWays]

As for Greece,do you know which place in Greece had the biggest Jewish community and most Jewish influence.

Thessaloniki,
in northern Greece,not the Greek Islands.
In Israel there are still Greek Jews who talk about Thessaloniki as their original hometown,speak Greek and
listen to Greek songs.
There are also Greek style songs in hebrew

Yes, Thessaloniki had a large community of Eastern Sephardic Jews. They are not THAT genetically close though to one another (Eastern Sephardic Jews and the general population from Thessaloniki). Given the history of both Sephardic and Romaniote Jews in Greece though, yes, there are strong cultural connections to Greece among some Jews.

[Sikeliot]

Another bit of evidence also is that on 23andme, mainland Greeks from Peloponnese score mostly Balkan, while the islanders score mostly Italian.

[Tauromachos]

Another bit of evidence also is that on 23andme, mainland Greeks from Peloponnese score mostly Balkan, while the islanders score mostly Italian.

Again its a hoax.
According to Triandafilidis
Mainland Greeks are closer to Italy than to Balkan.
In individual cases it can be true that a Mainland person even a Peloponnesian can score more Balkan.
But even an Islander can,believe me.

And i can bet 100 dollars that there is a good deal of Peloponnesian persons who score far more Southern Italian,be it Apulian
be it Sicilian than any Balkan.

[Sikeliot]

Again its a hoax.
According to Triandafilidis
Mainland Greeks are closer to Italy than to Balkan.
In individual cases it can be true that a Mainland person even a Peloponnesian can score more Balkan.
But even an Islander can,believe me.

And i can bet 100 dollars that there is a good deal of Peloponnesian persons who score far more Southern Italian,be it Apulian
be it Sicilian than any Balkan.


Southern Peloponnese like Mani are closer to far southern Italians than other mainlanders are, but not as close as Cretans. See the Cretan result I posted earlier: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217816-GEDmatch-result-from-Gavalochori-Chania-Crete-(Almost-identical-to-Sicilians)

But people from the north of Greece and inland will never plot *with* far southern Italians if they're fully native. I have not seen any persuasive evidence mainland Greeks are closer to Italian than to Albanian, and many are closer to Bulgarians.

But it depends on which Italians. Center and central-south, yes. Far south or far north, unlikely.

[Tauromachos]

Southern Peloponnese like Mani are closer to far southern Italians than other mainlanders are, but not as close as Cretans. See the Cretan result I posted earlier: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217816-GEDmatch-result-from-Gavalochori-Chania-Crete-(Almost-identical-to-Sicilians)

But people from the north of Greece and inland will never plot *with* far southern Italians if they're fully native. I have not seen any persuasive evidence mainland Greeks are closer to Italian than to Albanian, and many are closer to Bulgarians.

But it depends on which Italians. Center and central-south, yes. Far south or far north, unlikely.

Dude you claimed them to be more close to Balkan than to Italian.

Italian can only be what Italian says,not only Sicilian
Sicilians are only a subgroup of Italians.
In another thread you yourself said that East Sicilians are most similar to Peloponnesians.

[Sikeliot]

Dude you claimed them to be more close to Balkan than to Italian.

Italian can only be what Italian says,not only Sicilian
Sicilians are only a subgroup of Italians.
In another thread you yourself said that East Sicilians are most similar to Peloponnesians.

Southeast Sicilians (and likely the inland ones too like Enna) are closer to Peloponnesians, drifting away from other Sicilians and in that direction. That is because these Sicilians have GREEK affinity, not the reverse. Apulians and Lucanians are the same. It's that they match up with their descendants in that part of Italy, who descended from Greeks themselves. They match with Greeks for the same reason many Latinos match with Spain... much of their ancestry is from there.

With this said, I have seen many Greeks come up as close to Bulgarians as to any Italians, and many closer to Albanians too, though Albanians are not far from Italians either.

[Tauromachos]

Southeast Sicilians (and likely the inland ones too like Enna) are closer to Peloponnesians, drifting away from other Sicilians and in that direction. That is because these Sicilians have GREEK affinity, not the reverse. Apulians and Lucanians are the same. It's that they match up with their descendants in that part of Italy, who descended from Greeks themselves. They match with Greeks for the same reason many Latinos match with Spain... much of their ancestry is from there.

With this said, I have seen many Greeks come up as close to Bulgarians as to any Italians, and many closer to Albanians too, though Albanians are not far from Italians either.

Triandafilidis a professional geneticist who studied the genetics of all Greek populations and compared them with all other European populations,Menas and also minorities in Greece such as Roma,Vlachs,Pomaks and Arvanites says different;)

I'm not arguing with you about this if you have time and sincere interest in it,buy his book and read it.
Don't know though if an english translation exists.



Southeast Sicilians (and likely the inland ones too like Enna) are closer to Peloponnesians drifting away from other Sicilians in this
direction.
That is because these Sicilians have GREEK affinity, not the reverse.



And what is this supposed to mean,are they less Sicilian than others?
Who says what is Greek and what is Sicilian?
Aren't they present since at least 2000+ years at the Island and a significant part of Sicily's population?
Didn't Greek Sicilians contribute alot to the Island's history,culture,traditions and shaped its character?

Syrakuse,Archimidis,Pythagoreans..?

[Sikeliot]

Triandafilidis a professional geneticist who studied the genetics of all Greek populations and compared them with all other European populations,Menas and also minorities in Greece such as Roma,Vlachs,Pomaks and Arvanites says different;)

I'm not arguing with you about this if you have time and sincere interest in it,buy his book and read it.
Don't know though if an english translation exists.

I trust what I see with my own eyes. Like this thread, in which these Thessalians are closer to Bulgarians... then when I ran through 3 people from the Cyclades they were closer to Italians.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217863-2-Thessalian-Greeks-on-GEDmatch-closer-to-Bulgarian-than-to-Italians-of-any-kind




And what is this supposed to mean,are they less Sicilian than others?
Who says what is Greek and what is Sicilian?
Aren't they present since at least 2000+ years at the Island and a significant part of Sicily's population?
Didn't Greek Sicilians contribute alot to the Island's history,culture,traditions and shaped its character?

Syrakuse,Archimidis,Pythagoreans..?

Yes, they are however the point was that different parts of the island differ and as such we can say that people in southeast Sicily are somewhat shifted toward mainland Greece or intermediate between them and the islands, whereas in other places it differs.

Also Pythagoras was Calabrese, not Sicilian. But I see your point.

[Tauromachos]

I trust what I see with my own eyes. Like this thread, in which these Thessalians are closer to Bulgarians... then when I ran through 3 people from the Cyclades they were closer to Italians.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217863-2-Thessalian-Greeks-on-GEDmatch-closer-to-Bulgarian-than-to-Italians-of-any-kind

(https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217863-2-Thessalian-Greeks-on-GEDmatch-closer-to-Bulgarian-than-to-Italians-of-any-kind)





Yes, they are however the point was that different parts of the island differ and as such we can say that people in southeast Sicily are somewhat shifted toward mainland Greece or intermediate between them and the islands, whereas in other places it differs.

Also Pythagoras was Calabrese, not Sicilian. But I see your point.

Wrong!
Pythagoras was from Samos,but he went to Southern Italy and taught there,therefore Southern Italy aka Magna Grecia
became a significant center of Pythagorean philosophers.

Milon,an Greek Athlete and Philosopher from the Greek Sicilian polis Kroton was a Pythagorean.

Archytas a greek native from Tarentum in Apulia a dorian colony founded by the Spartans was a Pythagorean
,a military strategist,a statesman,an engineer,an astronomer,a mathematician.
He figured out how to solve difficult mathematical and mechanical problems and found an unconventional method to solve
the Delian problem"Doubling of the Cube"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archytas

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archytas)

[Sikeliot]

The evidence is overwhelming that mainland Greeks as a whole do not plot near southern Italians and Sicilians. Those who continue to insist they do simply look foolish at this point.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

The question isnt wether you plot. But do you share segments with them more than greeks.

[Sikeliot]

The question isnt wether you plot. But do you share segments with them more than greeks.

Well yes, there is shared ancestry but the plotting is not similar because of some components differing.

[Tauromachos]

The evidence is overwhelming that mainland Greeks as a whole do not plot near southern Italians and Sicilians. Those who continue to insist they do simply look foolish at this point.

I told you there is not the one and only type of Greek from the Mainland and not the Islander.
There are Islanders with zero Levantine and Mainlanders with zero Slavic.
All of them share common Greek ancestry and Sicilians,Southern Italians also.
Mycanaean and Post-Mycanaean Greek.

[Sikeliot]

I told you there is not the one and only type of Greek from the Mainland and not the Islander.
There are Islanders with zero Levantine and Mainlanders with zero Slavic.
All of them share common Greek ancestry and Sicilians,Southern Italian also.
Mycanean and Post-Mycanean Greek.

Why are you insulting me? Show me a mainlander not from the far southern Peloponnese who is genetically interchangeable with the islanders or with southern Italians. I have seen hundreds of results. If you cannot SHOW me one, then as far as I am concerned you are speaking hypothetically.

[Tauromachos]

Why are you insulting me? Show me a mainlander not from the far southern Peloponnese who is genetically interchangeable with the islanders or with southern Italians. I have seen hundreds of results. If you cannot SHOW me one, then as far as I am concerned you are speaking hypothetically.


I didn't want to insult you on a personal level.
If you feel insulted i can delete this part of the post.
But then you should delete it also in the corresponding quote.

As i told you
read a real scientific work on genetics of Greek people such as the book written by Triandafilidis.
Certainly i can find such examples,but not in one day.

[Sikeliot]

As i told you
read a real scientific work on genetics of Greek people such as the book written by Triandafilidis.
Certainly i can find such examples,but not in one day.


All I know is their results are the same trends on all the DNA testing sites, so I will believe what I see with my eyes.

[Tauromachos]

All I know is their results are the same trends on all the DNA testing sites, so I will believe what I see with my eyes.

Believe what you like.
Afterall there is not much i can do about this and for me personally it is also not the most interesting or important issue.

I edited my post and deleted that part,i would appreciate if you would delete it also in your quote of this post.
Thanx

[Sikeliot]

Believe what you like.
Afterall there is not much i can do about this and for me personally it is also not the most interesting or important issue.

I edited my post and deleted that part,i would appreciate if you would delete it also in your quote of this post.
Thanx

Look at it this way. See the way the Palermitan results and Cretans are here... see the high affinity toward the Levant? This does not exist in mainland Greeks. Are you trying to say some islanders would score nothing like this?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217908-Eurogenes-K15-for-some-new-Sicilians-Cretans-and-Cyclades-islanders&p=4569585#post4569585

[Tauromachos]

Are you trying to say some islanders would score nothing like this?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217908-Eurogenes-K15-for-some-new-Sicilians-Cretans-and-Cyclades-islanders&p=4569585#post4569585

Greece has alot of Islands and they are not everywhere the same people.
There are Islanders who are not very similar to Cretans and Mainland people who are more close to Crete than these Islanders and Sicilians are.
This!

I would say there are Islanders that have not more Levantine affinity than Mainlanders.
And there are Mainlanders who have not more Slavic or Northern affinity,be it NW,NE than Islanders.

[Sikeliot]

Greece has alot of Islands and they are not everywhere the same people.
There are Islanders who are not very similar to Cretans and Mainland people who are more close to Crete than theseIslanders
and Sicilians are.
This!

I would say there are Islanders that have no more Levantine affinity than Mainlanders.
And there are Mainlanders who have not more Slavic or Northern affinity,be it NW,NE than Islanders.



Maybe. I will keep looking. I mean no offense.

Btw look at the results. It is clear the Palermitans are more Levant shifted than that person from Messina in eastern Sicily. So what we said was true. The Messina result is North African shifted though.

[Lavrentis]

Sikeliot, people from eastern Peloponnese are in majority of Arvanite origin. There are some other small communities of Arvanites in Peloponnese too.

[Sikeliot]

Bumping because some people still deny reality...

[kleenex]

I'm not sure about the rest of the Peloponnese or even Messinia but my own genetic makeup has me clustering with Albanians, Epirotes, Tuscans, and Thessalians which suggests either Dorian input and/or a more recent Slavic admixture. If you compare a typical Messinian (not Laconia and/or Tskonian) result you may find that there is quite a bit of NW Greek affinity.

[Sikeliot]

I'm not sure about the rest of the Peloponnese or even Messinia but my own genetic makeup has me clustering with Albanians, Epirotes, Tuscans, and Thessalians which suggests either Dorian input and/or a more recent Slavic admixture. If you compare a typical Messinian (not Laconia and/or Tskonian) result you may find that there is quite a bit of NW Greek affinity.

I have seen only one partly Tsakonian result but Laconians vary. Some seem close to Abruzzese and central Italians, others more to other Greeks.

[kleenex]

I have seen only one partly Tsakonian result but Laconians vary. Some seem close to Abruzzese and central Italians, others more to other Greeks.

Would you say Laconians from Mani cluster with Southern Italians as opposed to Laconians from the North? I can only think of this Laconian: http://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/5149305/1024full-tracy-spiridakos.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Would you say Laconians from Mani cluster with Southern Italians as opposed to Laconians from the North? I can only think of this Laconian: http://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/5149305/1024full-tracy-spiridakos.jpg

I do not know how the geography works but my impression is they are the most southern-like mainlanders as well as some people in Attica.

[kleenex]

I do not know how the geography works but my impression is they are the most southern-like mainlanders as well as some people in Attica.

Objectively speaking I think you make a lot of sense (theoretically) based on the result I've seen from the Peloponnese and other quadrants from the Greek mainland. Not sure why Greek nationals on this website are so opposed to your findings other than some sort of gratuitous agenda. It's much easier for US born Greeks to look at these results contextually without getting caught up in this false pretense of Greek ethnic/genetic uniformity.

[Coolguy1]

Objectively speaking I think you make a lot of sense (theoretically) based on the result I've seen from the Peloponnese and other quadrants from the Greek mainland. Not sure why Greek nationals on this website are so opposed to your findings other than some sort of gratuitous agenda. It's much easier for US born Greeks to look at these results contextually without getting caught up in this false pretense of Greek ethnic/genetic uniformity.

What villages in Messinia are you from?

[kleenex]

Maternal grandfather; Aeotos, Messinia
Maternal grandmother; Paliohori Arcadia (near Kosmas in the Parnon mts)
Paternal grandfather; Kokinon, Messinia (in the mountains up from Longa)
Paternal grandmother Paneyeka, Messinia (near Kokinon) but has been depopulated.

[Coolguy1]

Maternal grandfather; Aeotos, Messinia
Maternal grandmother; Paliohori Arcadia (near Kosmas in the Parnon mts)
Paternal grandfather; Kokinon, Messinia (in the mountains up from Longa)
Paternal grandmother Paneyeka, Messinia (near Kokinon) but has been depopulated.

Nice, nearby my parts, do you mind sharing you gedmatch results?

[kleenex]

Nice, nearby my parts, do you mind sharing you gedmatch results?

No not all. Will share them a bit later today.

[kleenex]

Nice, nearby my parts, do you mind sharing you gedmatch results?

Dodecad 12KB

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.36
2 Atlantic_Med 28.57
3 North_European 22.83
4 Southwest_Asian 9.25
5 Gedrosia 5.55
6 Northwest_African 2.14
7 Southeast_Asian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 5.73
2 Greek (Dodecad) 6.46
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 7.93
4 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.95
5 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.58
6 Sicilian (Dodecad) 11.59
7 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 11.62
8 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 12.52
9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 12.57
10 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 12.71
11 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 12.8
12 Romanians (Behar) 13.72
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 14.49
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 16.68
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar)18.23
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar)19.96
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 24.66
18 Baleares (1000Genomes) 25.14
19 Cypriots (Behar) 25.63
20 Galicia (1000Genomes) 26.11

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Hungarians (Behar) 1.4
2 70.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.2% Hungarians (Behar) 1.72
3 78.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.4% Polish (Dodecad 1.79
4 79.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 2.18
5 83.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.8% Lithuanians (Behar) 2.19
6 72.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 27.7% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 2.2
7 80.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.7% Belorussian (Behar) 2.22
8 78.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.2% Polish (Dodecad) 2.27
9 82.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.7% Lithuanian (Dodecad) 2.31
10 73.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 26.6% Dutch (Dodecad) 2.32
11 54.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 45.7% Romanians (Behar) 2.36
12 71.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 28.3% German (Dodecad) 2.37
13 80.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.6% Russian (Dodecad) 2.38
14 54.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 45.6 Romanians (Behar) 2.44
15 86.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.7% Argyll (1000Genomes) 2.45
16 78.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 2.46
17 79.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 2.53
18 86.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.4% Orcadian (HGDP) 2.56
19 86.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.3% Orkney (1000Genomes) 2.57
20 86.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.4% Irish (Dodecad) 2.58


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.85
2 European_Early_Farmers 24.08
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 20.06
4 Near_East 7.42
5 North_African 5.30
6 South_Central_Asian 3.91
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.05


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Thessaly_ 3.657942
2 Greek_Peloponnesos_ 3.799216
3 Greek_Northwest_ 3.994662
4 Albanian_Tirana_ 4.111207
5 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 4.141719
6 Kosovar_ 5.150214
7 Central_Greek_ 5.749920
8 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.144865
9 Greek_ 8.126075
10 Ashkenazi_Jew_ 8.593415
11 Greek_Athens_ 8.665955
12 Sicilian_Siracusa_ 9.043802
13 Greek_Macedonia_ 9.132057
14 Sicilian_West_ 9.611202
15 Romanian_Jew_ 9.694407
16 Sicilian_Trapani_ 9.929836
17 Italian_Tuscan_ 10.119809
18 Italian_South_ 10.329771
19 Sicilian_East_ 10.331383
20 Greek_Phokaia_ 10.472938

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_North_ +50% Italian_South_ 2.210207


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Thessaloniki_ +25% Italian_North_ +25% Sicilian_East_ 1.348922


Using 4 populations approximation:

1 Croat_BH_ + French_Jew_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ 1.249892
2 Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ + Serb_BH_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.275422
3 Bosnian_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.279548
4 Kosovar_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.293139
5 Kosovar_ + Montenegrian_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.299352
6 Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Serb_BH_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.300815
7 Bulgarian_ + Italian_North_ + Sicilian_Center_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.304303
8 Albanian_Tirana_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.307336
9 Bosnian_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.316256
10 Italian_North_ + Macedonian_ + Sicilian_Center_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.319687
11 Croat_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.324296
12 Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Italian_North_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.348922
13 Greek_Thessaly_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.358459
14 Croat_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.360813
15 Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Italian_North_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.369257
16 Bosnian_ + French_Jew_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ 1.373377
17 Bosnian_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Maltese_ 1.381331
18 Italian_North_ + Italian_South_ + Macedonian_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.388685
19 Bulgarian_ + Italian_North_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.388821
20 Ashkenazi_ + Bulgarian_ + Kosovar_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.398768

[Coolguy1]

Dodecad 12KB

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 31.36
2 Atlantic_Med 28.57
3 North_European 22.83
4 Southwest_Asian 9.25
5 Gedrosia 5.55
6 Northwest_African 2.14
7 Southeast_Asian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 5.73
2 Greek (Dodecad) 6.46
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 7.93
4 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.95
5 TSI30 (Metspalu) 10.58
6 Sicilian (Dodecad) 11.59
7 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 11.62
8 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 12.52
9 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 12.57
10 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 12.71
11 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 12.8
12 Romanians (Behar) 13.72
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 14.49
14 North_Italian (HGDP) 16.68
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar)18.23
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar)19.96
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 24.66
18 Baleares (1000Genomes) 25.14
19 Cypriots (Behar) 25.63
20 Galicia (1000Genomes) 26.11

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.3% Hungarians (Behar) 1.4
2 70.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 29.2% Hungarians (Behar) 1.72
3 78.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.4% Polish (Dodecad 1.79
4 79.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 2.18
5 83.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.8% Lithuanians (Behar) 2.19
6 72.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 27.7% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 2.2
7 80.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.7% Belorussian (Behar) 2.22
8 78.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.2% Polish (Dodecad) 2.27
9 82.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.7% Lithuanian (Dodecad) 2.31
10 73.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 26.6% Dutch (Dodecad) 2.32
11 54.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 45.7% Romanians (Behar) 2.36
12 71.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 28.3% German (Dodecad) 2.37
13 80.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 19.6% Russian (Dodecad) 2.38
14 54.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 45.6 Romanians (Behar) 2.44
15 86.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.7% Argyll (1000Genomes) 2.45
16 78.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 21.8% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 2.46
17 79.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 20.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 2.53
18 86.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.4% Orcadian (HGDP) 2.56
19 86.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.3% Orkney (1000Genomes) 2.57
20 86.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 13.4% Irish (Dodecad) 2.58


MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.85
2 European_Early_Farmers 24.08
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 20.06
4 Near_East 7.42
5 North_African 5.30
6 South_Central_Asian 3.91
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.05


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Thessaly_ 3.657942
2 Greek_Peloponnesos_ 3.799216
3 Greek_Northwest_ 3.994662
4 Albanian_Tirana_ 4.111207
5 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 4.141719
6 Kosovar_ 5.150214
7 Central_Greek_ 5.749920
8 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.144865
9 Greek_ 8.126075
10 Ashkenazi_Jew_ 8.593415
11 Greek_Athens_ 8.665955
12 Sicilian_Siracusa_ 9.043802
13 Greek_Macedonia_ 9.132057
14 Sicilian_West_ 9.611202
15 Romanian_Jew_ 9.694407
16 Sicilian_Trapani_ 9.929836
17 Italian_Tuscan_ 10.119809
18 Italian_South_ 10.329771
19 Sicilian_East_ 10.331383
20 Greek_Phokaia_ 10.472938

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_North_ +50% Italian_South_ 2.210207


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Thessaloniki_ +25% Italian_North_ +25% Sicilian_East_ 1.348922


Using 4 populations approximation:

1 Croat_BH_ + French_Jew_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ 1.249892
2 Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ + Serb_BH_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.275422
3 Bosnian_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.279548
4 Kosovar_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.293139
5 Kosovar_ + Montenegrian_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.299352
6 Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Serb_BH_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.300815
7 Bulgarian_ + Italian_North_ + Sicilian_Center_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.304303
8 Albanian_Tirana_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.307336
9 Bosnian_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.316256
10 Italian_North_ + Macedonian_ + Sicilian_Center_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.319687
11 Croat_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.324296
12 Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Italian_North_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.348922
13 Greek_Thessaly_ + Serb_Serbia_ + Sicilian_East_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.358459
14 Croat_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.360813
15 Greek_Thessaloniki_ + Greek_Thessaly_ + Italian_North_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.369257
16 Bosnian_ + French_Jew_ + Italian_Piedmont_ + Italian_South_ 1.373377
17 Bosnian_ + Italian_South_ + Italian_Tuscan_ + Maltese_ 1.381331
18 Italian_North_ + Italian_South_ + Macedonian_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.388685
19 Bulgarian_ + Italian_North_ + Italian_South_ + Sicilian_East_ 1.388821
20 Ashkenazi_ + Bulgarian_ + Kosovar_ + Sicilian_Trapani_ 1.398768

Can you also post eurogenes k15 and k36? Also puntdnal k12 modern and k13.

[kleenex]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.23
2 Atlantic 19.69
3 West_Med 15.21
4 West_Asian 13.48
5 Baltic 11.49
6 North_Sea 10.38
7 Red_Sea 3.45
8 Eastern_Euro 2.92


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek @ 6.417035
2 Italian_Abruzzo @ 7.320643
3 West_Sicilian @ 9.049511
4 Tuscan @ 9.050209
5 Central_Greek @ 9.394638
6 Greek_Thessaly @ 9.704196
7 East_Sicilian @ 10.059940
8 South_Italian @ 11.684049
9 Bulgarian @ 11.867763
10 Ashkenazi @ 12.106990
11 Romanian @ 14.551296
12 North_Italian @ 14.794969
13 Italian_Jewish @ 17.154823
14 Sephardic_Jewish @ 17.323004
15 Algerian_Jewish @ 18.497381
16 Serbian @ 18.658958
17 Tunisian_Jewish @ 21.981131
18 Spanish_Andalucia @ 22.395031
19 Spanish_Extremadura @ 22.846294
20 Spanish_Murcia @ 22.970371

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.288008


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +25% French_Basque +25% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.824267


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.472631
2 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Lebanese_Druze @ 4.504030
3 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.529099
4 Austrian + Greek + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 4.535923
5 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.550178
6 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.556534
7 Austrian + Italian_Abruzzo + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 4.658151
8 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek_Thessaly + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.696702
9 Assyrian + Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek @ 4.701564
10 Bulgarian + Cyprian + Greek + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.717537
11 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.729703
12 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze @ 4.734399
13 Assyrian + Bulgarian + Greek + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.750007
14 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Southwest_French @ 4.750266
15 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.756169
16 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + French_Basque + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.782253
17 French_Basque + Greek + Lebanese_Druze + Romanian @ 4.784722
18 Bulgarian + Greek + Italian_Abruzzo + West_Sicilian @ 4.786828
19 Austrian + South_Italian + South_Italian + West_Sicilian @ 4.803299
20 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.814765

K36
Amerindian -
Arabian 3.42
Armenian 6.44
Basque 3.73
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.64
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.16
East_Med 8.32
Eastern_Euro 3.73
Fennoscandian -
French 0.72
Iberian 11.08
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 21.25
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 8.67
North_African -
North_Atlantic 4.20
North_Caucasian 1.55
North_Sea 5.35
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.44
West_Med 4.30

Your nMonte, but Admix4 was betterin your case
[spoiler]
[1] "distance%=6.6592 / distance=0.066592"

Albania_FYROM 32.85
IT_Veneto 26.40
IT_Abruzzo 12.90
Sicily_Messina 7.10
GR_Pontic 6.45
Spanish_Basque 4.40
IT_Campania 3.90
Saudi 3.65
Ukrainian_North_East 1.55
FR_Corsica 0.80
[/spolier]

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Gr_Eubea @ 9,48527
2 Greek_Peloponnes @ 9,572813
3 Greek_Macedonia @ 9,880709
4 Albania_North @ 9,927103
5 Albania_South @ 9,96251
6 Albania_FYROM @ 10,377857
7 Kosovo @ 10,71519
8 IT_Abruzzo @ 10,783124
9 Albania_Montenegro @ 11,111981
10 IT_Marche @ 11,482376
11 IT_Apulia @ 11,650402
12 IT_Lazio @ 12,037078
13 Sicily_Trapani @ 12,327992
14 IT_Tuscany @ 12,536151
15 Gr_Andros @ 12,593502
16 IT_Friuli @ 12,79159
17 Sicily_Ragusa @ 12,888207
18 GR_Thrace @ 12,889546
19 Sicily_Agrigento @ 12,923354
20 GR_Istanbul @ 13,009174
337 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto @ 7,467693
2 Gr_Chios+IT_Veneto @ 7,556095
3 IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto @ 7,721037
4 Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto @ 7,734195
5 Gr_Kalymnos+IT_Veneto @ 7,738658
6 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Veneto @ 7,801885
7 Sicily_Ragusa+IT_Veneto @ 7,836668
8 IT_Campania+IT_Veneto @ 7,857347
9 GR_Crete+IT_Veneto @ 7,94925
10 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Tuscany @ 7,983623
11 IT_Abruzzo+Macedonia_FYROM @ 8,003992
12 Gr_Andros+IT_Veneto @ 8,035743
13 IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 8,071423
14 GR_Kythera+IT_Veneto @ 8,078833
15 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Veneto @ 8,095646
16 Sicily_Catania+IT_Veneto @ 8,120564
17 Sicily_Palermo+IT_Veneto @ 8,125751
18 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Lazio @ 8,176046
19 Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Veneto @ 8,176729
20 GR_Ikaria+IT_Veneto @ 8,191879
56953 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,285769
2 50% IT_Campania +25% IT_Veneto +25% Serbian @ 7,291042
3 50% IT_Calabria +25% IT_Veneto +25% Serbian @ 7,328859
4 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Campania +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,340581
5 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% Sicily_Messina @ 7,358347
6 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,373164
7 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% Sicily_Agrigento @ 7,374529
8 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_Calabria @ 7,379284
9 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Messina +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,418748
10 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto +25% Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,423701
11 50% IT_Calabria +25% IT_Aosta +25% Serbian @ 7,427144
12 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Messina +25% IT_North @ 7,43705
13 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_Apulia @ 7,437505
14 50% IT_Veneto +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Messina @ 7,44108
15 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Agrigento +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,448326
16 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto +25% South_Romania @ 7,450798
17 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_Campania @ 7,451518
18 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Sicily_Messina @ 7,454332
19 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,45923
20 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% BLG_Turk +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,466016
11218206 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+Albania_F YROM @ 7,223744
2 IT_Calabria+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,229124
3 Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,230467
4 Sicily_Messina+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,26165
5 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,266915
6 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Ven eto @ 7,274236
7 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+Albania_S outh @ 7,285095
8 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,285769
9 IT_Campania+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,291042
10 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,292193
11 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Veneto+Albania _FYROM @ 7,308269
12 Sicily_Messina+IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,314385
13 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Veneto+Albania _South @ 7,31947
14 IT_Campania+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,319969
15 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,32446
16 Sicily_Messina+IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,324604
17 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Apulia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,325256
18 IT_Calabria+IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,328859
19 Greek_Macedonia+Greek_Macedonia+IT_Campania+IT_Ven eto @ 7,340581
20 Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romania @ 7,34164
21 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FY ROM @ 7,347204
22 Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FYRO M @ 7,348177
23 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+Albania_N orth @ 7,349957
24 IT_Campania+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romania @ 7,350223
25 IT_Calabria+IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,350992
26 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Venet o @ 7,352663
27 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Tuscany+IT_Venet o @ 7,355879
28 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,357075
29 Gr_Chios+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+IT_Veneto @ 7,358347
30 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Trapani+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Venet o @ 7,358925
31 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,360192
32 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Ragusa+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,362757
33 IT_Campania+IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,363115
34 Gr_Eubea+Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,36472
35 IT_Campania+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,364902
36 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Romania_SE @ 7,365084
37 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romania @ 7,372147
38 Greek_Macedonia+Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Vene to @ 7,373164
39 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,373677
40 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romani a @ 7,374363
214154076 iterations.


Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia @ 4,601119
2 Albania_North @ 4,964581
3 Greek_Peloponnes @ 4,978364
4 Albania_South @ 5,201673
5 Albania_FYROM @ 5,441659
6 Gr_Eubea @ 5,559489
7 IT_Tuscany @ 5,594432
8 Macedonia_FYROM @ 5,684916
9 Kosovo @ 5,769599
10 GR_Cyclades @ 5,986484
11 Albania_Montenegro @ 6,097649
12 Bulgaria @ 6,133917
13 Gr_Andros @ 6,143467
14 Gr_Chios @ 6,23868
15 South_Romania @ 6,348835
16 IT_Friuli @ 6,387784
17 IT_North @ 6,700474
18 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 6,711725
19 Askhenazi @ 6,796111
20 Romania_SE @ 6,984716
337 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo @ 4,330496
2 Greek_Macedonia+FR_Corsica @ 4,375742
3 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Lazio @ 4,389548
4 Gr_Kalymnos+IT_Veneto @ 4,424629
5 Gr_Chios+IT_Veneto @ 4,435868
6 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Tuscany @ 4,438345
7 IT_Abruzzo+Kosovo @ 4,441672
8 IT_Abruzzo+Albania_North @ 4,454207
9 IT_Abruzzo+Albania_FYROM @ 4,459293
10 IT_Abruzzo+Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,468314
11 GR_Thrace+Greek_Peloponnes @ 4,476059
12 Gr_Chios+IT_Friuli @ 4,485288
13 GR_Ikaria+IT_Veneto @ 4,499602
14 Gr_Chios+IT_North @ 4,500052
15 GR_Thrace+Greek_Macedonia @ 4,529254
16 IT_Abruzzo+Albania_Montenegro @ 4,534507
17 IT_Abruzzo+IT_Friuli @ 4,547846
18 GR_Ikaria+IT_Friuli @ 4,57356
19 IT_Lazio+Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,574556
20 Greek_Peloponnes+FR_Corsica @ 4,58307
56953 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% FR_Corsica @ 4,260846
2 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_North @ 4,261578
3 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Tuscany @ 4,272554
4 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% IT_Aosta @ 4,275392
5 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Spain_Aragon @ 4,278111
6 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Veneto @ 4,285295
7 50% Gr_Chios +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% Spain_Aragon @ 4,300957
8 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Friuli @ 4,305423
9 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% GR_Thrace +25% IT_Abruzzo @ 4,305847
10 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% GR_Thrace +25% Serbian @ 4,309035
11 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% IT_North @ 4,309426
12 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto @ 4,309472
13 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% GR_Thrace +25% IT_Lazio @ 4,313218
14 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Lazio +25% FR_Corsica @ 4,314196
15 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% GR_Thrace +25% Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,315024
16 50% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Spain_Aragon +25% Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,315026
17 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% GR_Ikaria +25% IT_North @ 4,316266
18 50% Gr_Chios +25% Spain_Aragon +25% Albania_FYROM @ 4,317985
19 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_North @ 4,320109


puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 41.57
2 Caucasus_HG 25.52
3 European_HG 20.91
4 Near_East 10.70


Finished reading population data. 135 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek @ 4.015629
2 Tuscan @ 4.163524
3 Albanian @ 5.647073
4 Sicilian_West @ 6.079405
5 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 6.425711
6 Sicilian_East @ 7.063789
7 Bulgarian @ 12.235892
8 Turkish_Jew @ 14.010719
9 Italian_Bergamo @ 14.385066
10 Moroccan_Jew @ 14.504872
11 Turkish_Aydin @ 16.385118
12 Spanish_Canaries @ 17.615057
13 Spanish_Southwest @ 17.906935
14 Romanian @ 18.218027
15 Croatian @ 19.211437
16 Libyan_Jew @ 19.315613
17 Cypriot @ 19.863539
18 French @ 20.396757
19 Spanish_Northeast @ 20.744009
20 Tunisian_Jew @ 21.164764

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% French @ 0.802847


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +25% French +25% French @ 0.802847


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
1 Cypriot + Cypriot + French + French @ 0.802847
2 Basque_Spaniard + Cypriot + Dutch_South + Iraqi_Jew @ 0.804454
3 Ashkenazi_Jew + Bulgarian + Cypriot + Spanish_Northeast @ 0.869007
4 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Georgian_Jew + Sardinian @ 0.869815
5 Albanian + Cypriot + English_South + Turkish_Jew @ 0.907782
6 Cypriot + Cypriot + Dutch_South + Spanish_Northeast @ 0.923181
7 Cypriot + French_South + German_South + Iraqi_Jew @ 0.930198
8 Albanian + Cypriot + Turkish_Jew + Utahn_European @ 0.932153
9 Cypriot + Cypriot + Hungarian + Spanish_Northeast @ 0.933557
10 Albanian + Iraqi_Jew + Spanish_Northeast + Tuscan @ 0.948620
11 Basque_Spaniard + Bulgarian + Turkish_Jew + Turkish_Trabzon @ 0.971169
12 Cypriot + French_South + Iraqi_Jew + Utahn_European @ 0.988181
13 Cypriot + Cypriot + Irish + Italian_Bergamo @ 0.991488
14 Albanian + Cypriot + French + Sicilian_West @ 1.005004
15 French + Spanish_Southwest + Turkish_Jew + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.005496
16 Ashkenazi_Jew + Ashkenazi_Jew + German_South + Turkish_Jew @ 1.009114
17 Cypriot + Cypriot + English_South + Italian_Bergamo @ 1.011938
18 Belgian + Cypriot + Sicilian_West + Tuscan @ 1.013229
19 Assyrian + Belgian + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Jew @ 1.030807
20 French_South + Greek + Greek + Iraqi_Jew @ 1.045048


puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 38.77
2 NE_Europe 24.61
3 West_Asia 20.54
4 SW_Asia 12.64
5 Siberia 1.46


Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Albanian @ 3.715657
2 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.781959
3 Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.047185
4 Italian_Tuscan @ 5.229593
5 Kosovar @ 5.314059
6 Greek_Central @ 6.011534
7 Ashkenazy_Jew @ 9.670215
8 Bulgarian @ 10.406797
9 Macedonian @ 10.440422
10 Italian_Sicilian @ 10.741897
11 Italian_Bergamo @ 11.716649
12 Romanian @ 13.281816
13 Montenegrin @ 13.661656
14 Sephardic_Jew @ 14.512008
15 Serbian @ 16.258234
16 Spaniard @ 18.034201
17 Bosnian @ 20.404324
18 Croatian @ 22.217833
19 Turkish @ 22.244612
20 French @ 22.396574

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.322742


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Tuscan +25% Spaniard +25% Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.963971


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish @ 1.653996
2 Ossetian + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 1.676961
3 Ashkenazy_Jew + Italian_Bergamo + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.688901
4 French + French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Turkish @ 1.711720
5 French_Basque + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.735752
6 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Tuscan + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.786900
7 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Tuscan + Spaniard + Turkish @ 1.797724
8 French_Basque + Macedonian + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.798124
9 Italian_Bergamo + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.798132
10 French_Basque + Macedonian + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish @ 1.800882
11 Italian_Bergamo + Italian_Sicilian + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.807968
12 Ashkenazy_Jew + Italian_Bergamo + Spaniard + Turkish @ 1.824230
13 French_Basque + Sephardic_Jew + Serbian + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.824316
14 French + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.915370
15 Balkar + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 1.943966
16 French_Basque + Kosovar + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.947843
17 French + French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.963477
18 Italian_Tuscan + Italian_Tuscan + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.963971
19 Ashkenazy_Jew + Spaniard + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.976023
20 French + Italian_Bergamo + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish @ 1.978831

[Coolguy1]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.23
2 Atlantic 19.69
3 West_Med 15.21
4 West_Asian 13.48
5 Baltic 11.49
6 North_Sea 10.38
7 Red_Sea 3.45
8 Eastern_Euro 2.92


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek @ 6.417035
2 Italian_Abruzzo @ 7.320643
3 West_Sicilian @ 9.049511
4 Tuscan @ 9.050209
5 Central_Greek @ 9.394638
6 Greek_Thessaly @ 9.704196
7 East_Sicilian @ 10.059940
8 South_Italian @ 11.684049
9 Bulgarian @ 11.867763
10 Ashkenazi @ 12.106990
11 Romanian @ 14.551296
12 North_Italian @ 14.794969
13 Italian_Jewish @ 17.154823
14 Sephardic_Jewish @ 17.323004
15 Algerian_Jewish @ 18.497381
16 Serbian @ 18.658958
17 Tunisian_Jewish @ 21.981131
18 Spanish_Andalucia @ 22.395031
19 Spanish_Extremadura @ 22.846294
20 Spanish_Murcia @ 22.970371

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.288008


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +25% French_Basque +25% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.824267


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.472631
2 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Lebanese_Druze @ 4.504030
3 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.529099
4 Austrian + Greek + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 4.535923
5 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.550178
6 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.556534
7 Austrian + Italian_Abruzzo + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 4.658151
8 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek_Thessaly + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.696702
9 Assyrian + Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek @ 4.701564
10 Bulgarian + Cyprian + Greek + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.717537
11 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.729703
12 Bulgarian + French_Basque + Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze @ 4.734399
13 Assyrian + Bulgarian + Greek + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.750007
14 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Southwest_French @ 4.750266
15 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.756169
16 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + French_Basque + Iranian_Jewish @ 4.782253
17 French_Basque + Greek + Lebanese_Druze + Romanian @ 4.784722
18 Bulgarian + Greek + Italian_Abruzzo + West_Sicilian @ 4.786828
19 Austrian + South_Italian + South_Italian + West_Sicilian @ 4.803299
20 Bulgarian + Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.814765

K36
Amerindian -
Arabian 3.42
Armenian 6.44
Basque 3.73
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 7.64
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 5.16
East_Med 8.32
Eastern_Euro 3.73
Fennoscandian -
French 0.72
Iberian 11.08
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 21.25
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 8.67
North_African -
North_Atlantic 4.20
North_Caucasian 1.55
North_Sea 5.35
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.44
West_Med 4.30

Your nMonte, but Admix4 was betterin your case
[spoiler]
[1] "distance%=6.6592 / distance=0.066592"

Albania_FYROM 32.85
IT_Veneto 26.40
IT_Abruzzo 12.90
Sicily_Messina 7.10
GR_Pontic 6.45
Spanish_Basque 4.40
IT_Campania 3.90
Saudi 3.65
Ukrainian_North_East 1.55
FR_Corsica 0.80
[/spolier]

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Gr_Eubea @ 9,48527
2 Greek_Peloponnes @ 9,572813
3 Greek_Macedonia @ 9,880709
4 Albania_North @ 9,927103
5 Albania_South @ 9,96251
6 Albania_FYROM @ 10,377857
7 Kosovo @ 10,71519
8 IT_Abruzzo @ 10,783124
9 Albania_Montenegro @ 11,111981
10 IT_Marche @ 11,482376
11 IT_Apulia @ 11,650402
12 IT_Lazio @ 12,037078
13 Sicily_Trapani @ 12,327992
14 IT_Tuscany @ 12,536151
15 Gr_Andros @ 12,593502
16 IT_Friuli @ 12,79159
17 Sicily_Ragusa @ 12,888207
18 GR_Thrace @ 12,889546
19 Sicily_Agrigento @ 12,923354
20 GR_Istanbul @ 13,009174
337 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto @ 7,467693
2 Gr_Chios+IT_Veneto @ 7,556095
3 IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto @ 7,721037
4 Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto @ 7,734195
5 Gr_Kalymnos+IT_Veneto @ 7,738658
6 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Veneto @ 7,801885
7 Sicily_Ragusa+IT_Veneto @ 7,836668
8 IT_Campania+IT_Veneto @ 7,857347
9 GR_Crete+IT_Veneto @ 7,94925
10 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Tuscany @ 7,983623
11 IT_Abruzzo+Macedonia_FYROM @ 8,003992
12 Gr_Andros+IT_Veneto @ 8,035743
13 IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 8,071423
14 GR_Kythera+IT_Veneto @ 8,078833
15 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Veneto @ 8,095646
16 Sicily_Catania+IT_Veneto @ 8,120564
17 Sicily_Palermo+IT_Veneto @ 8,125751
18 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Lazio @ 8,176046
19 Sicily_Caltanisetta+IT_Veneto @ 8,176729
20 GR_Ikaria+IT_Veneto @ 8,191879
56953 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,285769
2 50% IT_Campania +25% IT_Veneto +25% Serbian @ 7,291042
3 50% IT_Calabria +25% IT_Veneto +25% Serbian @ 7,328859
4 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Campania +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,340581
5 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% Sicily_Messina @ 7,358347
6 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,373164
7 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% Sicily_Agrigento @ 7,374529
8 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_Calabria @ 7,379284
9 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Messina +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,418748
10 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto +25% Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,423701
11 50% IT_Calabria +25% IT_Aosta +25% Serbian @ 7,427144
12 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Messina +25% IT_North @ 7,43705
13 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_Apulia @ 7,437505
14 50% IT_Veneto +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Messina @ 7,44108
15 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Agrigento +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,448326
16 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto +25% South_Romania @ 7,450798
17 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_Campania @ 7,451518
18 50% IT_Veneto +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Sicily_Messina @ 7,454332
19 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Sicily_Trapani +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,45923
20 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% BLG_Turk +25% IT_Veneto @ 7,466016
11218206 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+Albania_F YROM @ 7,223744
2 IT_Calabria+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,229124
3 Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,230467
4 Sicily_Messina+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,26165
5 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,266915
6 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Ven eto @ 7,274236
7 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+Albania_S outh @ 7,285095
8 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,285769
9 IT_Campania+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,291042
10 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,292193
11 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Veneto+Albania _FYROM @ 7,308269
12 Sicily_Messina+IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,314385
13 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Veneto+Albania _South @ 7,31947
14 IT_Campania+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,319969
15 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,32446
16 Sicily_Messina+IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,324604
17 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Apulia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,325256
18 IT_Calabria+IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,328859
19 Greek_Macedonia+Greek_Macedonia+IT_Campania+IT_Ven eto @ 7,340581
20 Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romania @ 7,34164
21 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FY ROM @ 7,347204
22 Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FYRO M @ 7,348177
23 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+Albania_N orth @ 7,349957
24 IT_Campania+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romania @ 7,350223
25 IT_Calabria+IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,350992
26 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Venet o @ 7,352663
27 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Messina+IT_Tuscany+IT_Venet o @ 7,355879
28 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Calabria+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,357075
29 Gr_Chios+Sicily_Messina+IT_Veneto+IT_Veneto @ 7,358347
30 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Trapani+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Venet o @ 7,358925
31 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,360192
32 Greek_Macedonia+Sicily_Ragusa+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,362757
33 IT_Campania+IT_Apulia+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,363115
34 Gr_Eubea+Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto @ 7,36472
35 IT_Campania+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Macedonia_FYROM @ 7,364902
36 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+Romania_SE @ 7,365084
37 IT_Calabria+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romania @ 7,372147
38 Greek_Macedonia+Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Vene to @ 7,373164
39 Sicily_Trapani+IT_Campania+IT_Veneto+Serbian @ 7,373677
40 Sicily_Agrigento+IT_Abruzzo+IT_Veneto+South_Romani a @ 7,374363
214154076 iterations.


Gaussian method.
Noise dispersion set to 0,130062

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia @ 4,601119
2 Albania_North @ 4,964581
3 Greek_Peloponnes @ 4,978364
4 Albania_South @ 5,201673
5 Albania_FYROM @ 5,441659
6 Gr_Eubea @ 5,559489
7 IT_Tuscany @ 5,594432
8 Macedonia_FYROM @ 5,684916
9 Kosovo @ 5,769599
10 GR_Cyclades @ 5,986484
11 Albania_Montenegro @ 6,097649
12 Bulgaria @ 6,133917
13 Gr_Andros @ 6,143467
14 Gr_Chios @ 6,23868
15 South_Romania @ 6,348835
16 IT_Friuli @ 6,387784
17 IT_North @ 6,700474
18 Ashkenazi_Eastern_Euro @ 6,711725
19 Askhenazi @ 6,796111
20 Romania_SE @ 6,984716
337 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Abruzzo @ 4,330496
2 Greek_Macedonia+FR_Corsica @ 4,375742
3 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Lazio @ 4,389548
4 Gr_Kalymnos+IT_Veneto @ 4,424629
5 Gr_Chios+IT_Veneto @ 4,435868
6 Greek_Macedonia+IT_Tuscany @ 4,438345
7 IT_Abruzzo+Kosovo @ 4,441672
8 IT_Abruzzo+Albania_North @ 4,454207
9 IT_Abruzzo+Albania_FYROM @ 4,459293
10 IT_Abruzzo+Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,468314
11 GR_Thrace+Greek_Peloponnes @ 4,476059
12 Gr_Chios+IT_Friuli @ 4,485288
13 GR_Ikaria+IT_Veneto @ 4,499602
14 Gr_Chios+IT_North @ 4,500052
15 GR_Thrace+Greek_Macedonia @ 4,529254
16 IT_Abruzzo+Albania_Montenegro @ 4,534507
17 IT_Abruzzo+IT_Friuli @ 4,547846
18 GR_Ikaria+IT_Friuli @ 4,57356
19 IT_Lazio+Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,574556
20 Greek_Peloponnes+FR_Corsica @ 4,58307
56953 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% FR_Corsica @ 4,260846
2 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_North @ 4,261578
3 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Tuscany @ 4,272554
4 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% IT_Aosta @ 4,275392
5 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Spain_Aragon @ 4,278111
6 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Veneto @ 4,285295
7 50% Gr_Chios +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% Spain_Aragon @ 4,300957
8 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Friuli @ 4,305423
9 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% GR_Thrace +25% IT_Abruzzo @ 4,305847
10 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% GR_Thrace +25% Serbian @ 4,309035
11 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Kalymnos +25% IT_North @ 4,309426
12 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Abruzzo +25% IT_Veneto @ 4,309472
13 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% GR_Thrace +25% IT_Lazio @ 4,313218
14 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% IT_Lazio +25% FR_Corsica @ 4,314196
15 50% IT_Abruzzo +25% GR_Thrace +25% Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,315024
16 50% Gr_Kalymnos +25% Spain_Aragon +25% Macedonia_FYROM @ 4,315026
17 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% GR_Ikaria +25% IT_North @ 4,316266
18 50% Gr_Chios +25% Spain_Aragon +25% Albania_FYROM @ 4,317985
19 50% Greek_Macedonia +25% Gr_Chios +25% IT_North @ 4,320109


puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 41.57
2 Caucasus_HG 25.52
3 European_HG 20.91
4 Near_East 10.70


Finished reading population data. 135 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek @ 4.015629
2 Tuscan @ 4.163524
3 Albanian @ 5.647073
4 Sicilian_West @ 6.079405
5 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 6.425711
6 Sicilian_East @ 7.063789
7 Bulgarian @ 12.235892
8 Turkish_Jew @ 14.010719
9 Italian_Bergamo @ 14.385066
10 Moroccan_Jew @ 14.504872
11 Turkish_Aydin @ 16.385118
12 Spanish_Canaries @ 17.615057
13 Spanish_Southwest @ 17.906935
14 Romanian @ 18.218027
15 Croatian @ 19.211437
16 Libyan_Jew @ 19.315613
17 Cypriot @ 19.863539
18 French @ 20.396757
19 Spanish_Northeast @ 20.744009
20 Tunisian_Jew @ 21.164764

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% French @ 0.802847


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +25% French +25% French @ 0.802847


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
1 Cypriot + Cypriot + French + French @ 0.802847
2 Basque_Spaniard + Cypriot + Dutch_South + Iraqi_Jew @ 0.804454
3 Ashkenazi_Jew + Bulgarian + Cypriot + Spanish_Northeast @ 0.869007
4 Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Georgian_Jew + Sardinian @ 0.869815
5 Albanian + Cypriot + English_South + Turkish_Jew @ 0.907782
6 Cypriot + Cypriot + Dutch_South + Spanish_Northeast @ 0.923181
7 Cypriot + French_South + German_South + Iraqi_Jew @ 0.930198
8 Albanian + Cypriot + Turkish_Jew + Utahn_European @ 0.932153
9 Cypriot + Cypriot + Hungarian + Spanish_Northeast @ 0.933557
10 Albanian + Iraqi_Jew + Spanish_Northeast + Tuscan @ 0.948620
11 Basque_Spaniard + Bulgarian + Turkish_Jew + Turkish_Trabzon @ 0.971169
12 Cypriot + French_South + Iraqi_Jew + Utahn_European @ 0.988181
13 Cypriot + Cypriot + Irish + Italian_Bergamo @ 0.991488
14 Albanian + Cypriot + French + Sicilian_West @ 1.005004
15 French + Spanish_Southwest + Turkish_Jew + Turkish_Trabzon @ 1.005496
16 Ashkenazi_Jew + Ashkenazi_Jew + German_South + Turkish_Jew @ 1.009114
17 Cypriot + Cypriot + English_South + Italian_Bergamo @ 1.011938
18 Belgian + Cypriot + Sicilian_West + Tuscan @ 1.013229
19 Assyrian + Belgian + Italian_Bergamo + Turkish_Jew @ 1.030807
20 French_South + Greek + Greek + Iraqi_Jew @ 1.045048


puntDNAL K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 38.77
2 NE_Europe 24.61
3 West_Asia 20.54
4 SW_Asia 12.64
5 Siberia 1.46


Finished reading population data. 191 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Albanian @ 3.715657
2 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.781959
3 Italian_Abruzzo @ 5.047185
4 Italian_Tuscan @ 5.229593
5 Kosovar @ 5.314059
6 Greek_Central @ 6.011534
7 Ashkenazy_Jew @ 9.670215
8 Bulgarian @ 10.406797
9 Macedonian @ 10.440422
10 Italian_Sicilian @ 10.741897
11 Italian_Bergamo @ 11.716649
12 Romanian @ 13.281816
13 Montenegrin @ 13.661656
14 Sephardic_Jew @ 14.512008
15 Serbian @ 16.258234
16 Spaniard @ 18.034201
17 Bosnian @ 20.404324
18 Croatian @ 22.217833
19 Turkish @ 22.244612
20 French @ 22.396574

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Albanian +50% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.322742


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Tuscan +25% Spaniard +25% Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.963971


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish @ 1.653996
2 Ossetian + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 1.676961
3 Ashkenazy_Jew + Italian_Bergamo + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.688901
4 French + French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Turkish @ 1.711720
5 French_Basque + Montenegrin + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.735752
6 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Tuscan + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.786900
7 Italian_Abruzzo + Italian_Tuscan + Spaniard + Turkish @ 1.797724
8 French_Basque + Macedonian + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.798124
9 Italian_Bergamo + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.798132
10 French_Basque + Macedonian + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish @ 1.800882
11 Italian_Bergamo + Italian_Sicilian + Spaniard + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.807968
12 Ashkenazy_Jew + Italian_Bergamo + Spaniard + Turkish @ 1.824230
13 French_Basque + Sephardic_Jew + Serbian + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.824316
14 French + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.915370
15 Balkar + Sephardic_Jew + Spaniard + Spaniard @ 1.943966
16 French_Basque + Kosovar + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.947843
17 French + French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Turkish_Aydin @ 1.963477
18 Italian_Tuscan + Italian_Tuscan + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.963971
19 Ashkenazy_Jew + Spaniard + Spaniard + Turkish_Kayseri @ 1.976023
20 French + Italian_Bergamo + Sephardic_Jew + Turkish @ 1.978831

On the K36 excel spreadsheet, you are actually very close to Euboean Greeks. Compared to my results, you are slightly western shifted which is pulling you closer to Abruzzo.

[kleenex]

On the K36 excel spreadsheet, you are actually very close to Euboean Greeks. Compared to my results, you are slightly western shifted which is pulling you closer to Abruzzo.

Interesting. Which of these calculators do you find the most accurate for folks from our region?

[Sikeliot]

On the K36 excel spreadsheet, you are actually very close to Euboean Greeks. Compared to my results, you are slightly western shifted which is pulling you closer to Abruzzo.

He is NE shifted compared to Sicilians, but western shifted compared to most Greeks (making him come out like Tuscans or central Italians overall).

[Sikeliot]

On the K36 excel spreadsheet, you are actually very close to Euboean Greeks. Compared to my results, you are slightly western shifted which is pulling you closer to Abruzzo.

He is NE shifted compared to Sicilians, but western shifted compared to most Greeks (making him come out like Tuscans or central Italians overall).

[wvwvw]

I don't cluster with Sicilians and my ancestry is fully Peloponnesean.

[Sikeliot]

I don't cluster with Sicilians and my ancestry is fully Peloponnesean.

I made this thread in response to an influx of Italian posters who were making this claim. It is clear some Sicilians shift toward Peloponnesians (likely due to their Doric Greek ancestry) but people were applying one part of the islands' genes to the whole island because it was the only region one study sampled.

[Sikeliot]

I don't cluster with Sicilians and my ancestry is fully Peloponnesean.

I made this thread in response to an influx of Italian posters who were making this claim. It is clear some Sicilians shift toward Peloponnesians (likely due to their Doric Greek ancestry) but people were applying one part of the islands' genes to the whole island because it was the only region one study sampled.

[Tauromachos]

Would you say Laconians from Mani cluster with Southern Italians as opposed to Laconians from the North? I can only think of this Laconian: http://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/5149305/1024full-tracy-spiridakos.jpg


The people in the pictures below are also Maniots"all of them",you are posting a cherry picked Maniot person who looks like a German,to prove what?
That this is the typical Greek or typical Maniot look?
And that the other darker types of the Southern Peloponese are less native?

http://www.sport24.gr/incoming/article4715864.ece/BINARY/w620/bitakos-2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qd8vOSX8Vgc/hqdefault.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000HkFHS36lAYg/fit=1000x750/NicoleLeo-17.jpg

http://24wro.com.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/pit-papadakos2-810x540.jpg

[Sikeliot]

The people in the pictures below are also Maniots"all of them",you are posting a cherry picked Maniot person who looks like a German,to prove what?
That this is the typical Greek or typical Maniot look?
And that the other darker types of the Southern Peloponese are less native?

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000HkFHS36lAYg/fit=1000x750/NicoleLeo-17.jpg]

This woman looks Syracusan or Apulian.

[Tauromachos]

This woman looks Syracusan or Apulian.

She is Maniot
Her surname is Leotsakos a typical Maniot surname

[Teucer]

The people in the pictures below are also Maniots"all of them",you are posting a cherry picked Maniot person who looks like a German,to prove what?
That this is the typical Greek or typical Maniot look?
And that the other darker types of the Southern Peloponese are less native?

http://www.sport24.gr/incoming/article4715864.ece/BINARY/w620/bitakos-2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qd8vOSX8Vgc/hqdefault.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000HkFHS36lAYg/fit=1000x750/NicoleLeo-17.jpg

http://24wro.com.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/pit-papadakos2-810x540.jpg

The last Maniot reminds me of this actor from Borat.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0YZ4titAVQs/hqdefault.jpg

I think he is Armenian.

[Tauromachos]

The last Maniot reminds me of this actor from Borat.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0YZ4titAVQs/hqdefault.jpg

I think he is Armenian.

Yes, a little bit perhabs Lol

[kleenex]

The people in the pictures below are also Maniots"all of them",you are posting a cherry picked Maniot person who looks like a German,to prove what?
That this is the typical Greek or typical Maniot look?
And that the other darker types of the Southern Peloponese are less native?

http://www.sport24.gr/incoming/article4715864.ece/BINARY/w620/bitakos-2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qd8vOSX8Vgc/hqdefault.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000HkFHS36lAYg/fit=1000x750/NicoleLeo-17.jpg

http://24wro.com.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/pit-papadakos2-810x540.jpg

Oh no it wasn't intended that way at all. I just posted her picture tongue in cheek because she's fairly attractive. She's half Laconian (not from Mani) and half Athenian. I'm aware of what Maniots look like. I dated a full Maniot woman in my twenties and she was certainly attractive. Diamada Galas (the singer) is a Manot as well. I've always admired Mani and Maniates it wasn't a judgment in the least bit. Sorry if it came across that way.

[DarknessWin]

The evidence is overwhelming that mainland Greeks as a whole do not plot near southern Italians and Sicilians. Those who continue to insist they do simply look foolish at this point.

Its well known that Greek islanders plot closer to Sicilians but again not so much like Cypriots.
Sicilians are equal to Cypriots
Greek mainland are between mainland Italy and Bulgaria

[Lavrentis]

Diamada Galas (the singer) is a Manot as well.

Diamada Galas is half Egyptian.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

Its well known that Greek islanders plot closer to Sicilians but again not so much like Cypriots.
Sicilians are equal to Cypriots
Greek mainland are between mainland Italy and Bulgaria

Depends which islands. NE Sicily is close to Crete or Dodecanese. Western Sicily (minus Trapani) they are closer to different Jewish groups including Moroccan Jews. The south easterners are the ones who show some similarity to Peloponnesians.

[DarknessWin]

I told you there is not the one and only type of Greek from the Mainland and not the Islander.
There are Islanders with zero Levantine and Mainlanders with zero Slavic.
All of them share common Greek ancestry and Sicilians,Southern Italians also.
Mycanaean and Post-Mycanaean Greek.


Sicilians are : Natives + Greek colonies in the east + Phoenician colonies in the west

Greeks have ZERO phoenician influence

So that's why Sicilians plot closer to Cypriots and look like cypriots , because of their phoenician roots

Greeks look more like mainland Italians than Sicilians, especially the Phoenician influenced Sicilians phenotype
its that not exist in Greece

[DarknessWin]

The people in the pictures below are also Maniots"all of them",you are posting a cherry picked Maniot person who looks like a German,to prove what?
That this is the typical Greek or typical Maniot look?
And that the other darker types of the Southern Peloponese are less native?

http://www.sport24.gr/incoming/article4715864.ece/BINARY/w620/bitakos-2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qd8vOSX8Vgc/hqdefault.jpg

https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000HkFHS36lAYg/fit=1000x750/NicoleLeo-17.jpg

http://24wro.com.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/pit-papadakos2-810x540.jpg

The last one is Turk , maniot my ass LOL

[DarknessWin]

The last Maniot reminds me of this actor from Borat.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0YZ4titAVQs/hqdefault.jpg

I think he is Armenian.

Bet my house that he get Armenian as first in DNA tests

[Teucer]

Yes, a little bit perhabs Lol

It's amazing how being overweight, bald and having facial hair makes you look similar to people of different countries :lol:

[Teucer]

The last one is Turk , maniot my ass LOL

LOL, like i said, maybe being morbidly obese and bald should be a new category of phenotype :laugh:

[DarknessWin]

LOL, like i said, maybe being morbidly obese and bald should be a new category of phenotype :laugh:

Bald Mediterraneans can pass better in North countries than meds with hair

[DarknessWin]

LOL, like i said, maybe being morbidly obese and bald should be a new category of phenotype :laugh:

He is not bald , and fat make no difference.
Even if he lose his weight he would still look armenian

[Teucer]

Bald Mediterraneans can pass better in North countries than meds with hair

True. My good friend's father (Greek Cypriot) is bald now and looks English, but when he was younger he had a massive a afro and looked like a normal Cypriot.

[Teucer]

He is not bald , and fat make no difference.
Even if he lose his weight he would still look armenian

So are you confident that the last Maniot is probably Turkish rather than Greek? They do look quite similar, minus the nose.

[DarknessWin]

So are you confident that the last Maniot is probably Turkish rather than Greek? They do look quite similar, minus the nose.

Actually west asian , modern turk -armenian - georgian etc

[Teucer]

Actually west asian , modern turk -armenian - georgian etc

Yeah, I think that fits better. He could easily pass in Cyprus, that Maniot guy.

[DarknessWin]

Yeah, I think that fits better. He could easily pass in Cyprus, that Maniot guy.

How much Armenoids and Anatolids do you have there ???
its like 40% or more ???

[Teucer]

How much Armenoids and Anatolids do you have there ???
its like 40% or more ???

I'm not too sure, I do not live there. Only been on holidays and such. We have a lot of Cypriots in England though. What counts as specifically Anatolid? I assume Armenoids on the whole have long hooked noses, and I must say not many Cypriots I know have them. They overall seem to have Dinaric (?) noses. The kind that have a bump but aren't hooked, they are straight in profile, unlike the Armenian type.

What would you classify as Anatolid?

[Tauromachos]

It's amazing how being overweight, bald and having facial hair makes you look similar to people of different countries :lol:

????
Any issues Dude

[Sikeliot]

Most Maniots to me look clearly European. I think those with exotic elements are definitely a minority.

[Teucer]

????
Any issues Dude

Huh? What do you mean?

[Teucer]

Most Maniots to me look clearly European. I think those with exotic elements are definitely a minority.

I don't know, if I came across any of those people and told me they were Cypriot, I would believe them immediately. Maybe it is because in comparison to the mainlanders I have met, they are on the whole fairer than the people in these pictures.

[DarknessWin]

I'm not too sure, I do not live there. Only been on holidays and such. We have a lot of Cypriots in England though. What counts as specifically Anatolid? I assume Armenoids on the whole have long hooked noses, and I must say not many Cypriots I know have them. They overall seem to have Dinaric (?) noses. The kind that have a bump but aren't hooked, they are straight in profile, unlike the Armenian type.

What would you classify as Anatolid?

Anatolid is Armenoid mixed with Orientalid
Phenotype of Anatolia in Turkey

http://www.aerasnews.gr/wp-content/uploads/giannatos.jpg

http://www.lifo.gr/uploads/image/557833/image_29.jpg

[Teucer]

Anatolid is Armenoid mixed with Orientalid
Phenotype of Anatolia in Turkey

http://www.aerasnews.gr/wp-content/uploads/giannatos.jpg

http://www.lifo.gr/uploads/image/557833/image_29.jpg

Yeah, this type is more prevalent than the Armenian type, but I wouldn't say the majority have this type of look. Still, I can only speak from my own experiences which are probably more limited in comparison to others here.

[Sikeliot]

I don't know, if I came across any of those people and told me they were Cypriot, I would believe them immediately. Maybe it is because in comparison to the mainlanders I have met, they are on the whole fairer than the people in these pictures.

Laconians are the mainlanders that come closer to islanders (because of their affinities to Crete). But I also think there are Maniots who don't look like these people, and some surely have the Slavic. But some of them don't seem to.

[Tauromachos]

The last one is Turk , maniot my ass LOL

He is not Turk
His name is Pit Papadakos and he is Maniot.
Here is another picture
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-C14z6lMSGbA/UOI-8HiOsAI/AAAAAAAADv8/goK1UNaLuwU/s1600/papadakos.jpg

Real Maniots"from Deep Mani" are predominantly Med types"Classic Med,Alpine-Med,Pontid-Med and Atlanto-Med"+fewer Dinaric and Alpine types.

Genetically they are close to Mainland Italians,Greek Sicilians,Cretans,Tsakonians,and Dodecanese Islanders.

The difference to Sicilians,Cretans and Dodacenese is that they probably lack the Mena elements that exist to some degree in this places.

As for Sicilians they are not everywhere and not predominantly Mena.
The strongest Mena like affinity is in the West of Sicily and the North-West.

Except of this Sicilians are not completly distinct and different neither from Mainland Italians nor from Greeks.
The other stuff you posted about the colonization of Sicily is correct.

[Teucer]

He is not Turk
His name is Pit Papadakos and he is Maniot.
Here is another picture
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-C14z6lMSGbA/UOI-8HiOsAI/AAAAAAAADv8/goK1UNaLuwU/s1600/papadakos.jpg

Real Maniots"from Deep Mani" are predominantly Med types"Classic Med,Alpine-Med,Pontid-Med and Atlanto-Med"+fewer Dinaric and Alpine types.

Genetically they are close to Mainland Italians,Greek Sicilians,Cretans,Tsakonians,and Dodecanese Islanders.

The difference to Sicilians,Cretans and Dodacenese is that they probably lack the Mena elements that exist to some degree in this places.

As for Sicilians they are not everywhere and not predominantly Mena.
The strongest Mena like affinity is in the West of Sicily and the North-West.

Except of this Sicilians are not completly distinct and different neither from Mainland Italians nor from Greeks.
The other stuff you posted about the colonization of Sicily is correct.

So they have less 'Slavic' ancestry, for lack of a better term?

[Tauromachos]

So they have less 'Slavic' ancestry, for lack of a better term?

You mean Maniots or Sicilians?

As for Mani,
yes Deep Mani is one of the places in Peloponnese with the least Slavic input.

As for Sicily i don't know but i would say Slavic ancestry is almost 0"completly absent there"...

[Sikeliot]

You mean Maniots or Sicilians?

As for Mani,
yes Deep Mani is one of the places in Peloponnese with the least Slavic input.

As for Sicily i don't know but i would say Slavic ancestry is almost 0"completly absent there"...

Any Slavic input in Sicily would have been brought there in post-Byzantine times by Greeks or Albanians who carried it.

[Teucer]

@cybernautic @Sikeliot Thanks guys

[Sikeliot]

@cybernautic @Sikeliot Thanks guys

Here is how Cretans and Dodecanese compare to Sicilians, 2 examples of each:

Crete:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.96
2 European_Early_Farmers 24.16
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.97
4 Near_East 11.36
5 South_Central_Asian 6.46
6 North_African 5.04
7 Australoid 1.47


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 3.389923
2 Sicilian_East_ @ 3.697932
3 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.139861
4 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.269892
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.181263
6 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.317841
7 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.420635
8 Cretan_ @ 5.870097
9 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.020875
10 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.400130
11 Italian_South_ @ 6.594312
12 French_Jew_ @ 6.676859
13 Maltese_ @ 6.756115
14 Greek_Athens_ @ 7.339146
15 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.595619
16 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.089826
17 Greek_ @ 8.132418
18 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.438208
19 Central_Greek_ @ 8.927812
20 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.316644

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cretan_ +50% Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 2.191487



Crete:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.28
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.70
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 14.56
4 Near_East 8.68
5 South_Central_Asian 6.26
6 North_African 5.14
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.16
8 South_Indian 1.88


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Athens_ @ 4.137287
2 Greek_ @ 4.166695
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 4.614218
4 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.008045
5 Italian_South_ @ 5.358126
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.714618
7 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 5.733969
8 Central_Greek_ @ 5.937820
9 Cretan_ @ 5.960185
10 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 6.451985
11 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.285110
12 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.462960
13 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.481560
14 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 7.816198
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.101669
16 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.458406
17 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 8.621318
18 Azov_Greek_ @ 8.842134
19 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 9.101385
20 Albanian_Tirana_ @ 9.252671

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ +50% Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 2.139048



Dodecanese:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.53
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.19
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.31
4 Near_East 10.40
5 South_Central_Asian 8.00
6 North_African 5.82
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.29


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.229719
2 Italian_South_ @ 5.431058
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.178496
4 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 6.183455
5 Greek_Athens_ @ 6.397288
6 Greek_ @ 7.156368
7 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.241431
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.356544
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.680141
10 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.800887
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.317266
12 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.550550
13 Azov_Greek_ @ 8.581370
14 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.809959
15 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 9.010845
16 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 9.110600
17 French_Jew_ @ 9.273682
18 Sicilian_West_ @ 9.774501
19 Central_Greek_ @ 9.958456
20 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 10.106797

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azov_Greek_ +50% French_Jew_ @ 2.654644


Dodecanese:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.63
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.61
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.43
4 Near_East 11.99
5 North_African 6.14
6 South_Central_Asian 5.99
7 Amerindian 1.08


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.174332
2 Romanian_Jew_ @ 4.220472
3 Italian_South_ @ 4.488301
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.625656
5 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.033428
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.159043
7 Greek_Athens_ @ 5.826019
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.965828
9 Greek_ @ 6.219143
10 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.283199
11 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 6.642695
12 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.344220
13 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.478656
14 French_Jew_ @ 7.736637
15 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.909190
16 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.949626
17 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 8.194620
18 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.637028
19 Central_Greek_ @ 8.801349
20 Maltese_ @ 8.962550

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi_ +50% Cretan_ @ 2.035376

[Teucer]

Here is how Cretans and Dodecanese compare to Sicilians, 2 examples of each:

Crete:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 37.96
2 European_Early_Farmers 24.16
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.97
4 Near_East 11.36
5 South_Central_Asian 6.46
6 North_African 5.04
7 Australoid 1.47


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 3.389923
2 Sicilian_East_ @ 3.697932
3 Sicilian_West_ @ 4.139861
4 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 4.269892
5 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 5.181263
6 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 5.317841
7 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.420635
8 Cretan_ @ 5.870097
9 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.020875
10 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.400130
11 Italian_South_ @ 6.594312
12 French_Jew_ @ 6.676859
13 Maltese_ @ 6.756115
14 Greek_Athens_ @ 7.339146
15 Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 7.595619
16 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 8.089826
17 Greek_ @ 8.132418
18 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.438208
19 Central_Greek_ @ 8.927812
20 Greek_Islands_ @ 9.316644

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cretan_ +50% Italian_Abruzzo_ @ 2.191487



Crete:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.28
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.70
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 14.56
4 Near_East 8.68
5 South_Central_Asian 6.26
6 North_African 5.14
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.16
8 South_Indian 1.88


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Athens_ @ 4.137287
2 Greek_ @ 4.166695
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 4.614218
4 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.008045
5 Italian_South_ @ 5.358126
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.714618
7 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 5.733969
8 Central_Greek_ @ 5.937820
9 Cretan_ @ 5.960185
10 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 6.451985
11 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain_ @ 7.285110
12 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.462960
13 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 7.481560
14 Greek_Peloponnesos_ @ 7.816198
15 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.101669
16 Sicilian_West_ @ 8.458406
17 Greek_Thessaloniki_ @ 8.621318
18 Azov_Greek_ @ 8.842134
19 Greek_Thessaly_ @ 9.101385
20 Albanian_Tirana_ @ 9.252671

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Crimean_Tatar_Coast_ +50% Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 2.139048



Dodecanese:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 42.53
2 European_Early_Farmers 19.19
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.31
4 Near_East 10.40
5 South_Central_Asian 8.00
6 North_African 5.82
7 Paleo_Siberian 1.29


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.229719
2 Italian_South_ @ 5.431058
3 Romanian_Jew_ @ 6.178496
4 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 6.183455
5 Greek_Athens_ @ 6.397288
6 Greek_ @ 7.156368
7 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.241431
8 Sicilian_East_ @ 7.356544
9 Ashkenazi_ @ 7.680141
10 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 7.800887
11 Sicilian_Center_ @ 8.317266
12 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 8.550550
13 Azov_Greek_ @ 8.581370
14 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 8.809959
15 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 9.010845
16 Turk_Balikesir_ @ 9.110600
17 French_Jew_ @ 9.273682
18 Sicilian_West_ @ 9.774501
19 Central_Greek_ @ 9.958456
20 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 10.106797

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Azov_Greek_ +50% French_Jew_ @ 2.654644


Dodecanese:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.63
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.61
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 12.43
4 Near_East 11.99
5 North_African 6.14
6 South_Central_Asian 5.99
7 Amerindian 1.08


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan_ @ 3.174332
2 Romanian_Jew_ @ 4.220472
3 Italian_South_ @ 4.488301
4 Sicilian_East_ @ 4.625656
5 Ashkenazi_ @ 5.033428
6 Ashkenazi_Jew_ @ 5.159043
7 Greek_Athens_ @ 5.826019
8 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 5.965828
9 Greek_ @ 6.219143
10 Sicilian_Center_ @ 6.283199
11 Greek_Phokaia_ @ 6.642695
12 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 7.344220
13 Sicilian_West_ @ 7.478656
14 French_Jew_ @ 7.736637
15 Greek_Islands_ @ 7.909190
16 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 7.949626
17 Greek_Macedonia_ @ 8.194620
18 Sicilian_Trapani_ @ 8.637028
19 Central_Greek_ @ 8.801349
20 Maltese_ @ 8.962550

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi_ +50% Cretan_ @ 2.035376

Notice how the first Cretan you posted is closest first to a Sicilian from Syracuse! Strange how the second one identifies first with an Athenian. They were primarily Ionian.

[Sikeliot]

Notice how the first Cretan you posted is closest first to a Sicilian from Syracuse! Strange how the second one identifies first with an Athenian. They were primarily Ionian.

Dodecanese usually score "Sicilian East" (which I think is based on Catania) in their top 5.

[Dimitri159]

South Italians are not first place in genetic closeness to mainland Greeks, but they are still fucking close and in the same general basket. People need to get over it. There’s no reason Greeks should be white-washed as much as they are on the internet. I’m sick of it.

Mainland Greeks are still not directly clustered with Balkan Slavs, but they are to Albanians. Greeks and Albanians are both in between the Balkan range and the South Italian range. Greek Islanders and some Peloponnesians are in the same range as South Italians.

COPE WITH IT.

[Dimitri159]

Nope,Dude
Greek Islanders are diverse and Jews don't have to do alot with the Greek Islands.
Sephardic Jews have to do with Spain

These maps are not showing direct genetic relations as an IBD would. It’s just a matter of how much “northern” admixture or how much “southern” or “MENA” admixture an ethnicity has, calculates it and plots it accordingly. In this case, Jews and all Greeks are relatively close but not as close as other groups. This does not mean that Jews and Greeks are genetically related directly though, they have not had enough contact with each other.

[Tauromachos]

These maps are not showing direct genetic relations as an IBD would. It’s just a matter of how much “northern” admixture or how much “southern” or “MENA” admixture an ethnicity has, calculates it and plots it accordingly. In this case, Jews and all Greeks are relatively close but not as close as other groups. This does not mean that Jews and Greeks are genetically related directly though, they have not had enough contact with each other.

Agree, Ashkenazi plot with South European groups also in the genetic studies that have been done in the past.

[Figaro]

I’m glad that we shattered that myth. Cuts a brotha deep...