View Full Version : Latvia Claims Original Christmas Tree
esaima
12-08-2010, 09:28 AM
Every proper Estonian knows that the world's first Christmas tree was erected in Tallinn, but that the nation's Grinch-of-a-neighbor, Latvia, is trying to steal the claim to fame.
Whether it is blaming each other for exceeding fishing quotas or laying claims for a bear that caught international media attention when it forged the Baltic sea and scared island inhabitants - it is always the important things that Estonians and Latvians contest over. Now, the seasonal dispute considers archives that historians say were devoured by mice centuries ago.
"Riga, Latvia – home of the first Christmas tree, anno 1510,“ the southern neighbor advertises on its billboards.
Yet a merchants' guild in Tallinn erected Estonia's first tree in 1441 - 69 years before Riga, by expert calculations. "I believe we can confidently use that date as the world's first Christmas tree," said historian Jüri Kuuskemaa on ETV.
It is known that after merchants and single women had danced around the first Christmas tree (in Tallinn, naturally), it was set on fire and all evidence was disposed of. According to records, the Riga Christmas tree wasn't even a real tree, just a wooden pyramid decorated with flowers, fruits and toys.
Latvia recently gave Estonia a Christmas present. Tallinn's mayor kindly returned the favor. "He congratulated us on the 500th anniversary of the Riga Christmas tree and reminded us that Tallinn is celebrating the 569th anniversary," Mayor of Riga Nils Usakovs told AFP. "It's good that the sole topic of disagreement between Riga and Tallinn is who has the oldest Christmas tree."
Now the ingenious Latvians point to the fact that Estonia and Latvia both made up a united Livonia during the time of the first Christmas trees.
Decorating Christmas trees was for a long time considered a pagan tradition that did not reach the West until hundreds of years later. "Thus, we and the Latvians [...] can be proud to have introduced the Western Christianity with a fun tradition that is now celebrated everywhere. But the story began here in Old Livonia," said Kuuskemaa.
http://news.err.ee/
Matuo
12-09-2010, 09:22 AM
Interestingly, have ever fir-trees been growing around Tallinn? In Tallinn region grow mostly pines, birches and junipers as far as I've seen. Latvian comments on this issue is that fir-trees were hardly growing in Tallinn area, so first mentioned "Christmas trees" weren't decorated fir-trees, they were most likely some other trees.
The Ripper
12-09-2010, 11:09 AM
Interestingly, have ever fir-trees been growing around Tallinn? In Tallinn region grow mostly pines, birches and junipers as far as I've seen. Latvian comments on this issue is that fir-trees were hardly growing in Tallinn area, so first mentioned "Christmas trees" weren't decorated fir-trees, they were most likely some other trees.
Is fir and spruce the same tree? I can't imagine it being terribly difficult to find a spruce in the Tallinn region.
Interestingly, have ever fir-trees been growing around Tallinn? In Tallinn region grow mostly pines, birches and junipers as far as I've seen. Latvian comments on this issue is that fir-trees were hardly growing in Tallinn area, so first mentioned "Christmas trees" weren't decorated fir-trees, they were most likely some other trees.
I see some when I look out of my window...
...
Another Latvian attempt of forging history has failed.
poiuytrewq0987
12-09-2010, 04:42 PM
Will this event spark the first Baltic War?
Will this event spark the first Baltic War?
There should have been one, after we liberated them from the Germans and the Bolsheviks. ;) There was no war, only diplomacy, the result was Latvia getting big chunks of ethnic Estonian territory.
The Ripper
12-09-2010, 06:57 PM
Another Latvian attempt of forging history has failed.
Karl to the rescue! :D
Óttar
12-09-2010, 07:48 PM
Decorating Christmas trees was for a long time considered a pagan tradition that did not reach the West until hundreds of years later.
So it wasn't a 'pagan' tradition? :confused:
The Ripper
12-09-2010, 07:53 PM
So it wasn't a 'pagan' tradition? :confused:
Considered. Once it was incorporated into Christian Christmas celebration, it was no longer considered pagan. How many Christians celebrated traditions in the 1500's they considered pagan?
Matuo
12-10-2010, 05:05 PM
I see some when I look out of my window...
...
Another Latvian attempt of forging history has failed.
Yes, now fir-trees are maybe growing in Tallinn. But how was in medieval times?
Don't worry, it's just another Latvian attempt to tease an Estonian :p
Yes, now fir-trees are maybe growing in Tallinn. But how was in medieval times?
There were even more forests and trees in Estonia, during the medieval times.
Don't worry, it's just another Latvian attempt to tease an Estonian :p
Even an Italian would look less foreign in Latvia, than you.
Matuo
12-10-2010, 05:20 PM
There were even more forests and trees in Estonia, during the medieval times.
Good for you :)
Even an Italian would look less foreign in Latvia, than you.
Ej dirst ar savu uzbraucienu :D
Ej dirst ar savu uzbraucienu :D
What? I do not understand a single word of Latvian.
This is the Eesti section, please speak Estonian or English.
Matuo
12-10-2010, 05:29 PM
What? I do not understand a single word of Latvian.
This is the Eesti section, please speak Estonian or English.
OK, I will not write anymore. Good that you didn't understand :D
OK, I will not write anymore. Good that you didn't understand :D
I would appreciate a translation.
The Ripper
12-10-2010, 05:36 PM
I think google translator doesn't know the naughty words. :D
Groenewolf
12-12-2010, 08:38 AM
There is however evidence pointing to the habit of putting up trees during Christmas as far back as at least 1184. And some times later there are references to trees decorated with apples and paper flowers. Also there is evidence that the custom can be traced to pre-Christian times. So in the case I would say that is more the question in which region it survived the longest or was revived the earliest.:coffee:
Also there is evidence that the custom can be traced to pre-Christian times.
Yes, I thought this was the case and associated it with pagan German(ic)s and assumed it was one of those traditions that was Christianised and then spread to other cultures. Links to Estonia and/or Latvia are quite a surprise.
Yes, I thought this was the case and associated it with pagan German(ic)s and assumed it was one of those traditions that was Christianised and then spread to other cultures. Links to Estonia and/or Latvia are quite a surprise.
The tradition itself has pagan origins, the local bishop wasn't very pleased, when the townsfolk was dancing around a big "Christmas" tree, 569 years ago in Tallinn. But afterwards it was Christianized.
The only thing linking this to Latvia, is the fact that they tried to do something similar 69 years after the tradition had started in Tallinn, Estonia.
esaima
12-12-2010, 04:55 PM
Indeed, the most common tree around Tallinn is pine but it is the most common tree in Riga area as well I think.So, the situation is same.;)
Indeed, the most common tree around Tallinn is pine but it is the most common tree in Riga area as well I think.So, the situation is same.;)
If the ancient Britons could transport 80 stones, which weighed 4 tons, 390km from its original location to build the Stonehenge.
Then I think that medieval citizens of Tallinn, had no trouble of finding the proper tree from a distance of 3km. :D
Guapo
12-12-2010, 06:11 PM
I smell war, damn Balkanoids.
Don Brick
12-12-2010, 06:44 PM
Balkanoids... 0_o
Balkanoids... 0_o
...Have nigger santas as their avatars o_O
Guapo
12-12-2010, 07:02 PM
He's a pigmented Estonian.
He's a pigmented Estonian.
I thought that Santa lives in Lapland...
Guapo
12-12-2010, 07:06 PM
I thought that Santa lives in Lapland...
http://www.laplandfood.fi/uploads/images/kuvitus/lapland-cheese-cloudberry-light.jpg
:love:
http://www.laplandfood.fi/uploads/images/kuvitus/lapland-cheese-cloudberry-light.jpg
:love:
I thought that Santa was an old guy, not a hot and young Saami woman. ;)
poiuytrewq0987
12-12-2010, 08:54 PM
Balticoids... 0_o
Fixed.
Fixed.
What kind of undiscovered species is that? Just keep them out of Estonia, we have enough foreign immigrants here.
Peerkons
12-21-2010, 01:08 PM
imo this whole thing with 1st xmas tree is just ridicilous.
it doesnt affect anyones lives and i think this "war" between latvians and estonians is silly.
p.s. stulbie igauņi :D
imo this whole thing with 1st xmas tree is just ridicilous.
it doesnt affect anyones lives and i think this "war" between latvians and estonians is silly.
Of course this "war" is silly, the first Christmas tree in Tallinn is 70 years older than the tree in Riga and the tree in Riga wasn't even a tree.
p.s. stulbie igauņi :D
What does this mean? I do not understand any Baltic languages.
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 03:04 PM
Sure, we have nothing better to do but stole the glory of the first xmas tree from our great and mighty nordic neighbors
Sure, we have nothing better to do but stole the glory of the first xmas tree from our great and mighty nordic neighbors
Latvia could definitely spend their money on more productive things. Tallinn was full of ads talking about the 500th anniversary of the first Christmas tree in the world. While most Estonians just laughed at the ads, as the first Christmas tree was first seen in Tallinn, 70 years before the tree(it wasn't even a tree, it was a wooden pyramid or something similar) in Riga.
I'd say that's wasted money.
Sure, we have nothing better to do but stole the glory of the first xmas tree from our great and mighty nordic neighbors
Yeah, why claim it if we had it first? Certainly there's more productive things to do. ;)
But I'd be happy to give Latvians the glory for the tree in exchange for the old Estonian areas in Northern Latvia...
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 04:20 PM
Which are those? As i remember u wanted to get our teritories for helping us in the independence war. U got Valga, Roņu sala, which were ours. So dont cry pls
U even wanted to get Ainaži, u filthy bastards :D
Which are those? As i remember u wanted to get our teritories for helping us in the independence war. U got Valga, Roņu sala, which were ours. So dont cry pls
U even wanted to get Ainaži, u filthy bastards :D
No... Estonians want Estonian territories, not Latvian territories.
Heinaste was majority Estonian in 1920, but ungrateful Latvians still got that town. Latvians who talk about Estonia getting Latvian territories should be shot. The reality is the opposite, Latvia got big chunks of Estonian territories, it is well documented. Estonia liberated Latvia from the Germans and the Reds. If we would have wanted to, we could have annexed entire Latvia. But no, we came as friends.
You, Latvians, should be grateful for being liberated, by us Estonians and then if that wasn't enough. You also received Estonian territories, because the British guy leading the border negations was clearly biased.
In World War I Ainaži was heavily damaged. The port was ruined and the entire shipping fleet destroyed. In February 1919, the Estonian army drove the Germans from Ainaži. After the war, Ainaži fell into Latvian territory, even though the majority of the population was Estonian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aina%C5%BEi
Even the Latvian version of the town name "Ainaži" derives from Estonian.
"Ainaži " may be derived from the Estonian word hainaste meaning "hay-road".
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 04:39 PM
If we would have wanted to, we could have annexed entire Latvia. But no, we came as friends.
LMFAO
are u sick in your head? lol u just helped us in North Vidzeme, Cēsis and thats all. U were only friendlies just as poles and lithuanians.
And my bad with Aina˛i, but its so goddamn small city lol 12km2
U got Valga for helping us which is 16km2 so do act like a kid ffs
Im starting to think that u, estonians, are arrogant and scornful to us.
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 04:48 PM
Heinaste, Salatsi, Väike-Salatsi, Ruhja, other half of Valga(also majority Estonian, but it was split), Volmari, Hopa. + rural territores in Northern-Latvia.
I dont know atm about the others, but cmon Valmiera has always been latvian territory, since the latvian tribes (latgaļi) lived there. Its 50km from border u are sick in head dude. lol
LMFAO
are u sick in your head? lol u just helped us in North Vidzeme, Cēsis and thats all. U were only friendlies just as poles and lithuanians.
Typical Latvian attitude, even in Latvian schools nothing is talked about Estonians. Estonians won a decisive battle against the Germans in Cesis. We further advanced south and liberated Riga, by completely eliminating German presence in North-Eastern Europe. We also had to kill hordes of Latvian and Russian reds.
And my bad with Ainaži, but its so goddamn small city lol 12km2
U got Valga for helping us which is 16km2 so do act like a kid ffs
"U got Valga"? Valga was majority Estonian, just like Heinaste. If anyone got Valga, then it was Latvia. As the town was split.
Im starting to think that u, estonians, are arrogant and scornful to us.
On the contrary, Latvians are arrogant. Even in Latvian schools, in Latvian history books, the decisive part of the Estonian military in the Latvian(it should be called Estonian, because the Latvians were defeated until Estonians came) war of independence.
Latvia in 1918:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Latvian_Independence_War_1918.svg/632px-Latvian_Independence_War_1918.svg.png
November 1918: After World War I most of Latvia was occupied by German forces (orange)
Purple: Estonian army
Orange: German army
No Latvian army :(
The Estonian army was holding a status quo in the south, until the Germans attacked us. Which resulted in a decisive counter-attack which liberated Latvia and completely destroyed the German army.
http://www.weebly.com/uploads/1/5/2/9/1529337/custom_themes/234266/files/Vabaduss%C3%B5ja%20kaart.png
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 04:57 PM
greetings to Julius Kuperjanov from latvian riflemen...
greetings to Julius Kuperjanov from latvian riflemen...
They were fighting side-by-side with the Russian reds with one goal, to bring communism to Latvia.
I thought that you disliked Russians. Latvian riflemen = Russian occupation of Latvia.
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:01 PM
and btw by saying that if u wanted u could have annexed the whole Latvia u just show how tard u are. lol that is the most ridicilous what i have seen so far from u eesti pois'es
Mordid
12-22-2010, 05:02 PM
and btw by saying that if u wanted u could have annexed the whole Latvia u just show how tard u are. lol that is the most ridicilous what i have seen so far from u eesti pois'es
He's anti-Russian. :D
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:03 PM
Well there is big difference between Lenin era USSR and Stalin era USSR.
And actually just because of them(riflemen) russians respected us, not like u - licking German ass in the 20s-40s
and btw by saying that if u wanted u could have annexed the whole Latvia u just show how tard u are. lol that is the most ridicilous what i have seen so far from u eesti pois'es
The Estonian army entered Latvia with the goal of liberating the Latvia people and helping them form an independent country, as they clearly weren't capable of doing that themselves.
The Estonian army stopped their advance, after the German army was destroyed and Latvia was out of danger.
Estonia didn't stop at Riga, because they couldn't go more south. They stopped at Riga, because the Germans were eliminated as a military power.
Estonia was still priority number 1 and gradually, Estonians helped to create a Latvian army capable of controlling its territory.
The Ripper
12-22-2010, 05:06 PM
Well there is big difference between Lenin era USSR and Stalin era USSR.
And actually just because of them(riflemen) russians respected us, not like u - licking German ass in the 20s-40s
What did that respect from the Russian side give you? You were deported and genocided just the same?
He's anti-Russian. :D
Who invited you into this thread, you're more of a idiot than this Latvian.
Well there is big difference between Lenin era USSR and Stalin era USSR.
And actually just because of them(riflemen) russians respected us, not like u - licking German ass in the 20s-40s
1. Turn off your computer.
2. Leave your home.
3. Start walking towards the nearest library.
4. When you arrive at the library, take a few dozen books about the Estonian and the Latvian independence war, with you.
5. Read them in a month.
6. Stop making dumb posts.
I cannot understand how Estonia "licked German arse" 1920-1940. Germany was actually viewed as a threat.
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:07 PM
Respect for that. But dont feel just because of that more superior than us. Because i can see how u are expressing - oh, us, great estonians. look at the latvians, they got nothing. even without our help they wouldnt have anything. bshit
Mordid
12-22-2010, 05:08 PM
Who invited you into this thread, you're more of a idiot than this Latvian.
Your mother.
What did that respect from the Russian side give you? You were deported and genocided just the same?
If Estonians wouldn't have liberated Latvia, then the genocidal actions would have started not in 1940, but in 1920.
If history would have turned out like that, then I think that it's plausible that the Latvians would have ended up in the same way as the Ingrians.
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:11 PM
Riippumatto, didnt you read my post about Lenin Russia and Stalin Russia?
Big difference.
Im sorry, i dont know this LV-EE history so good, but u started to be contemptuous. Just dont say that u didnt
Respect for that. But dont feel just because of that more superior than us. Because i can see how u are expressing - oh, us, great estonians. look at the latvians, they got nothing. even without our help they wouldnt have anything. bshit
I'm just saying that Estonians liberated Latvia and without us, Latvia would have been either annexed by Germany or the USSR.
The Ripper
12-22-2010, 05:13 PM
Riippumatto, didnt you read my post about Lenin Russia and Stalin Russia?
Big difference.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the question: how did this respect from the Bolsheviks help you?
Riippumatto, didnt you read my post about Lenin Russia and Stalin Russia?
Big difference.
Without Leninist Russia there would have been no Stalinist Russia. Latvian reds deserve no respect, they were our enemies. They were against Estonian and Latvian independence.
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:30 PM
part of latvian riflemen sided to reds cause they promised indepence for Latvia, which we got. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian-Soviet_Riga_Peace_Treaty
Many latvians got high positions in that time Soviet system.
part of latvian riflemen sided to reds cause they promised indepence for Latvia, which we got. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian-Soviet_Riga_Peace_Treaty
Many latvians got high positions in that time Soviet system.
The absolute majority of the Latvian riflemen sided with the reds. The only reason, why the USSR signed an independence treaty with Latvia, was because the Estonian army had forced the reds to retreat.
If the Estonian army wouldn't have started fighting the Reds, then Latvia would have been annexed by the USSR.
Estonia also signed a peace treaty with the Bolsheviks, after we had defeated them.
part of latvian riflemen sided to reds cause they promised indepence for Latvia, which we got. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian-Soviet_Riga_Peace_Treaty
Only after the Reds and the Landeswehr were kicked out did you get the above treaty and independence. Otherwise you would have been "independent" as the Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic or some Baltic German duchy.
Many latvians got high positions in that time Soviet system.
Do all Latvians feel proud about that?
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:42 PM
Estonians - the superior saviours of Baltics. http://panzerkampf.org/img/smilies/girl.gif
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:brRbJOhlsQpt_M:http://www.coderetard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/super-retard.JPG&t=1
Peerkons
12-22-2010, 05:51 PM
Do all Latvians feel proud about that?
Thats a fact. Nothing to be proud or ashamed of.
Ill answer about your first statement later, havent got time now.
Estonians - the superior saviours of Baltics. http://panzerkampf.org/img/smilies/girl.gif
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:brRbJOhlsQpt_M:http://www.coderetard.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/super-retard.JPG&t=1
You look more similar to this "Superman", than any Estonian.
...Anyway, the Latvians should say "Aitäh" to the Estonians. :)
And actually just because of them(riflemen) russians respected us, not like u - licking German ass in the 20s-40s
This is not the first time I hear this, I think someone even mentioned "making deals with the Germans" once (well, the UK and Germany were indeed our main trading partners), but I'm very interested about where Latvians get this from. Is it about us trying to be neutral (didn't Latvia do the same)? Or the view comes directly from Soviet history books? Or what? :confused:
Peerkons
12-23-2010, 07:52 AM
Karl, do i have to recall u about Estonian Reds and Kingisepp?
Kuhu and Korhu who took command in 1920 of reds in Latgale?
Karl, do i have to recall u about Estonian Reds and Kingisepp?
Kuhu and Korhu who took command in 1920 of reds in Latgale?
The absolute majority of Estonians were in the Estonian army, the "Estonian Reds" were mostly Russian. But there were some Estonians too, of course.
On the other hand, the Latvian riflemen were famous among the Reds.
Peerkons
12-23-2010, 04:19 PM
Ye sure, but thing is that there were also estonian reds.
Maybe u can think why they were so famous...
Ye sure, but thing is that there were also estonian reds.
Maybe u can think why they were so famous...
They weren't famous over the entire USSR, like the Latvian reds, because there were only 5000 of them. While there were 40 000 Latvian reds.
As I said, Estonians strongly supported independent and democratic Estonia and the Estonian army.
Peerkons
12-23-2010, 05:51 PM
No doubts of that. But why the hell u think that those latvian territories u mentioned are supposed to be estonian? lol Valmiera is 50km from border, it has been latvian even before crusades came here.
from your way of thinking you deserve those territories cause some estonian minority/majority. From that means that we should give half Riga to russians, because half of population in Riga is russian.
U make totally no sense.
No doubts of that. But why the hell u think that those latvian territories u mentioned are supposed to be estonian? lol Valmiera is 50km from border, it has been latvian even before crusades came here.
from your way of thinking you deserve those territories cause some estonian minority/majority. From that means that we should give half Riga to russians, because half of population in Riga is russian.
U make totally no sense.
Valmiera was a strech, I agree. It has been Latvian for a considerable span of time, the area was inhabited by Livonians before.
But the rest of the areas I mentioned, are more Estonian than Latvian. At least used to be before Latvia got those areas.
Peerkons
12-23-2010, 10:35 PM
sure, the whole world has been inhabited by Finns(estonians, livonians etc)
sure, the whole world has been inhabited by Finns(estonians, livonians etc)
No, that isn't true. But big parts of Northern-Latvia were inhabited by Estonians, still in the early 20th century.
Livonians used to inhabit most of modern-day Latvia if you go back in history.
Peerkons
12-24-2010, 12:57 PM
U call this most of Latvia?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/lv/4/4a/Liivi_keel_LV.GIF
http://policelink.monster.com/nfs/policelink/attachment_images/0030/2369/Retards.jpg?1224050609
U call this most of Latvia?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/lv/4/4a/Liivi_keel_LV.GIF
http://policelink.monster.com/nfs/policelink/attachment_images/0030/2369/Retards.jpg?1224050609
You know pretty well(or not) that Livonians inhabited vast areas before the Northern Crusade. When Riga was created, it was more Livonian than Baltic.
But the Baltic invaders assimilated most of the Livonians, thus you can find some Latvians who look quite similar to Estonians.
But considering how you look like, you probably do not have any Livonian/Finnic heritage.
I wonder if it is a bad coincidence or just something usual, but most of the Latvians who have ever been to this forum have been dumb in one way or another.
You do not know anything about Latvian history, which you have already demonstrated. But the way you disagree with me shows your idiocy. Calling me a "faggit" on the chatbox and now calling me a retard. You look like a Russian and act like a Russian, but you're a Latvian? This doesn't add up.
Peerkons
12-24-2010, 01:43 PM
2nd - 4th century
http://genexis.uzdevumi.lv/Resources/0841213d-1e90-4691-b7ec-25e04ab9f513/DSCF2293.JPG
its still 1/4
u call this most of?
Your point is that Estonia deserves our territories just because u lived there many hundreds years ago.
2nd - 4th century
http://genexis.uzdevumi.lv/Resources/0841213d-1e90-4691-b7ec-25e04ab9f513/DSCF2293.JPG
its still 1/4
u call this most of?
Your point is that Estonia deserves our territories just because u lived there many hundreds years ago.
That map is false. Still in the 12th century, Livonians inhabited more areas then on your map. The areas of Kursi and Zemgali are over exaggerated, especially for the 4th century. It is visible that the map is made by Latvians.
The further back in time you go, the more Finnic and less Baltic Latvia was. It is very visible in genetics.
The thing with Northern-Latvia is that it was completely Estonian a few hundred years ago. But Latvians started migrating to Estonian areas in the late 18th century, Valga for example.
Heretik
12-24-2010, 03:52 PM
Oh, this looks like a Croatia vs. Serbia thread. :D
Balkan to the Baltic sea!!!
U are complete idiot!
Fuck off, Baltoslav (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balto-Slavic_languages).
The first picture is about 12th century.
http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/livonians.shtml
According to your "maps", the Livonians inhabited greater areas in the 12th century, after being assimilated by the Balts for 1000 years, than in the 2nd century.
Oh, this looks like a Croatia vs. Serbia thread. :D
Balkan to the Baltic sea!!!
Looks like the Balts have preserved some ancient traits from their Balto-Slavic homeland. ;)
Peerkons
12-24-2010, 09:03 PM
Oh, sure thing, Balticfinn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic-Finnic_languages
And i think u need to buy glasses. :)
Peerkons
12-24-2010, 09:06 PM
And Baltic and Slavic tribes have been neighbours so there is no wonder, that we have some linguistic similarities. :)
Oh, sure thing, Balticfinn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic-Finnic_languages
And i think u need to buy glasses. :)
Finnic people do not have any Indo-European nor Balto-Slavic heritage. The Baltic and Slavic languages are related, while Finnic and Baltic languages aren't related even slightly.
Do you think that Finns or Estonians also have a Balto-Slavic origin?
And Baltic and Slavic tribes have been neighbours so there is no wonder, that we have some linguistic similarities. :)
When the Balts and the Slavs both come from their proto-Balto-Slavic homeland, then Estonians nor other Finnic people have any linguistic relations with you, Balto-Slavs.
Peerkons
12-24-2010, 09:13 PM
When the Balts and the Slavs both come from their proto-Balto-Slavic homeland, then Estonians nor other Finnic people have any linguistic relations with you, Balto-Slavs.
I have never said that u do
I have never said that u do
Well, Balto-Slav, do you have anything more to add or let's stop making off-topic posts in this thread?
Peerkons
12-24-2010, 09:17 PM
I have name, which is Erik.
Try to keep that in mind
I have name, which is Erik.
Try to keep that in mind
Okay, Balto-Slav (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Balto-Slavic_lng.png) Eriks.
The Ripper
12-25-2010, 01:14 PM
Finnic people do not have any Indo-European nor Balto-Slavic heritage.
Of course not. Only some thousands of loan words. From prehistorical times. :coffee:
Of course not. Only some thousands of loan words. From prehistorical times. :coffee:
I'm talking about this:
Indo-European -> Balto-Slavic -> Baltic
For us it is like this:
Uralic -> Finno-Ugric -> Finno-Permic -> Finno-Volgaic -> Finno-Lappic -> Baltic-Finnic
and I do not know what thousands of loan words you are talking about. There are ~125 Proto-Baltic loanwords in the Estonian language.
The Ripper
12-25-2010, 01:56 PM
I'm talking about this:
Indo-European -> Balto-Slavic -> Baltic
For us it is like this:
Uralic -> Finno-Ugric -> Finno-Permic -> Finno-Volgaic -> Finno-Lappic -> Baltic-Finnic
I guess this means we have nothing in common with Scandinavians.
and I do not know what thousands of loan words you are talking about. There are ~125 Proto-Baltic loanwords in the Estonian language.
What about Germanic and other I-E loans?
I guess this means we have nothing in common with Scandinavians.
Our languages derive from different places, indeed.
What about Germanic and other I-E loans?
If we are talking about prehistorical times, then there are about 50 Proto-Indo-European loans, ~40 Indo-European/Indo-Iranian loans and 380 Proto-Germanic loans in the Estonian language.
Yes, I can see that in you. :thumbs
But... I'm not a Balt. :scratch:
Being stubborn is very much a Finnic trait.
Heretik
12-25-2010, 04:20 PM
If you wish to believe in that... Brother. :laugh:
esaima
12-28-2010, 07:38 AM
your Balto-Slavic
Being stubborn is very much a Finnic trait.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/europe%20genetical%20distances/dpwes/NE_Europe.png
Genetically Estonians are predominately "Balto-Slavic" as well and I think nobody is going to deny it with Chinese stubbornness;)
http://media.photobucket.com/image/europe%20genetical%20distances/dpwes/NE_Europe.png
Genetically Estonians are predominately "Balto-Slavic" as well and I think nobody is going to deny it with Chinese stubbornness;)
On the contrary, my trollish Estonian brother. The Balts and North-Western Russians are quite Finnic, which explains their closeness to us.
But if you wish to be a Balto-Slav. Then change your username from "esäimä" to "Balto-Slav".
esaima
12-28-2010, 01:13 PM
But if you wish to be a Balto-Slav. Then change your username from "esäimä" to "Balto-Slav".
No, I am not going to change my username kinda Balto-Slav.
My business is truth, I like to describe things just like they are, not make Nordic PR campaign.
I believe that nordicists and wannabe-Scandinavians like you have no monopoly to represent Estonians in internet forums.In the real life the number of wannabe-Scandinavins among Estonians is much smaller than one can see in internet.But fanatics dominate in internet, unfortunately.
Most of Estonians are normal human beings, not kinda 2 meters tall Nordic overmen. If you are personally so emphazisedly nordic, calling yourself üliinimene i.e overman (in Estonian) then it is your personal problem, my nordicistic friend.
No, I am not going to change my username kinda Balto-Slav.
My business is truth, I like to describe things just like they are, not make Nordic PR campaign.
I believe that nordicists and wannabe-Scandinavians like you have no monopoly to represent Estonians in internet forums.In the real life the number of wannabe-Scandinavins among Estonians is much smaller than one can see in internet.But fanatics dominate in internet, unfortunately.
Most of Estonians are normal human beings, not kinda 2 meters tall Nordic overmen. If you are personally so emphazisedly nordic, calling yourself üliinimene i.e overman (in Estonian) then it is your personal problem, my nordicistic friend.
Estonians aren't Scandinavian and I am not an üliinimene in the way you mean it.
The funny is that when i was making my point and he's alway disagree what i said and started to call me an idiot for no reason. :rolleyes:
Well, Mordid... You are an idiot, this is clear to most people on this forum.
O RLY?
that is typicall Karl :)
i have a guess that in childhood some latvian took hes candy or bullied him, thatswhy he hates latvians so much
I live in Estonia, the chances of meeting a Latvian are slim. Especially in my childhood. On the other hand, I see Finns daily.
Eldritch
12-28-2010, 03:00 PM
For the 19,826th time:
Disagreement and debate, fine.
Calling people names, not fine.
And Erik, for the love of all the gods, learn to spell and capitalize properly. As a member of the Master Race that's the least you can do.
esaima
12-28-2010, 03:13 PM
I am not an üliinimene in the way you mean it.
You consider yourself üliinimene i.e overman. I simply translated it from Estonian to English.
PS why was my post deleted?Because i am not supporting Karl´s semi-nazi views?Should one support them?
Well, Estonia suffered a lot under communism but it all does not mean that i should became a semi-nazi now and support nordicizm.
Btw, if to tal about politics I am a simple amn but represent here non pro-Estonian government views and thus is logical that i don´t support Karl´s views and Karl doesn´t like it.
It doesn´t mean that i am kinda "enemy of people". But I think , I believe that everybody has a freedom of speech.
Well, it doesnt mean that there are Estonian government are as big Nordicomans as Karl.Karl is unique ...
You consider yourself üliinimene i.e overman. I simply translated it from Estonian to English.
PS why was my post deleted?Because i am not supporting Karl´s semi-nazi views?
Well, Estonia suffered a lot under communism but it all does not mean that i should became a semi-nazi now and support nordicizm.
I represent here non pro-Estonian government views and thus is logical that i don´t support Karl´s views and Karl doesn´t like it.
It doesn´t mean that i am kinda "enemy of people". But I think , I believe that everybody has a freedom of speech.
I do not have semi-nazi views. I am also not a nordicist, I do not believe that I am better than Southern-Europeans and darker Europeans in general, because I have blond hair.
I am saying this for the 25th time.
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