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View Full Version : Could a mediterranean alliance be a solution to "MerkelReich"?



Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 09:42 AM
Neo-imperialist Germany and its European allies (e.g., Eastern Europe, Nordic countries, France) are destroying Southern Europe by imposing the free market, which will be a disaster for the weakest economies, and austerity, which has not been able to solve the problem of highest sovereign debts. Thanks to the euro the European peripheral countries cannot practice autonomously competitive devaluation or expansionary monetary policy, so Germany is now the second country in the world in terms of net export (https://update.revolvy.com/topic/List%20of%20countries%20by%20net%20exports&item_type=topic). German politicians influence public opinion by declaring that their problems are created by inferior peoples who “spend money in alcohol and women” (Dear Dijsselbloem, Italy is a net contributors to the EU budget and its alcohol consumption per capita is lower than that of Netherlands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capit a)).

We should try to create a sort of mediterranean alliance (Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece) against the German-dominated Europe, but unluckily this would be very difficult, also because Spain is dominated by Pro-Europeanism, Greece survives only thanks to European funds and Italy is controlled by a small group of nonelected politicians.

See also (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/706829/Italy-earthquake-EU-controls-money)

Albobalboa
08-21-2017, 09:45 AM
http://womenonthefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Untitled-2.png

Honestly, I think the chances of that succeeding would be about 0.00001%. Without German structure and order there's nothing, what all those countries have in common is a lot more corruption and a lot less industry. Add to that they pretty much function due to EU-handouts at this point, without which they would collapse a long time ago (PIGS).

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 09:54 AM
I don't critize European Union in order to hide our structural problems (corruption, Mafia, inefficient bureaucracy, etc.), but we must fight against a dictatorship composed by foreign politicians who want to transform my country into a poor colony of the New German Empire. It will be difficult and dangerous (especially for our banking system), but we must do it, because it's our only chance. After the Worl War II, we saw the Italian_economic_miracle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_economic_miracle), even if we had a lot of the same problems of the so-called PIGS countries.

Loki
08-21-2017, 10:23 AM
You are correct when you talk about a "New German Empire", as today's Germany is becoming incredibly wealthy, and, together with China, is basically carrying the world economy. There is no chance for southern Europe to stand up to Germany and the EU, really. I think at this point, the most you can do is to make the best of a bad situation. Integrate more into the EU. What else is there? Don't become an enemy to Germany, that will be your end.

Loki
08-21-2017, 10:25 AM
Of course, there is another option. And that is to get closer to Russia. And I'm not joking.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 10:29 AM
I don't want to be the enemy of Germany, but, if we accept to be colonised, in Italy there will be an economic and moral genocide. Our stupid and coward politicians have already tried to mediate with Germans, but they don't want to respect our interests. It is impossible to discuss with them, becuase, I think, it's their cultural peculiarity.

An alliance with Russia or China is a possible alternative, but we would be forced to abandon NATO and become the enemy of Usa and all the European countries. Will Usa accept to give their military bases to Putin?

Loki
08-21-2017, 10:33 AM
I don't want to be the enemy of Germany, but, if we accept to be colonised, in Italy there will be an economic and moral genocide. Our stupid and coward politicians have already tried to mediate with Germans, but they don't want to respect our interests. It is impossible to discuss with them, becuase, I think, it's their cultural peculiarity.

I fully agree and understand you.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
08-21-2017, 10:35 AM
http://womenonthefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Untitled-2.png

Honestly, I think the chances of that succeeding would be about 0.00001%. Without German structure and order there's nothing, what all those countries have in common is a lot more corruption and a lot less industry. Add to that they pretty much function due to EU-handouts at this point, without which they would collapse a long time ago (PIGS).

Italy and Spain have huge industry sectors. I think you're underestimating them.

catgeorge
08-21-2017, 10:38 AM
Of course majority of South Europeans would support without a doubt.

Through the ages real leaders only came from South Europe providing its non beaurocratic and non democratic.

All it takes is one Med with balls to unite.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 10:40 AM
We will face the real problems in our financial systems, because the Credit rating agencies will punish us, there will be a bank run and the government bonds, which belong to our banks, will fall down.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:44 AM
The solution is more ethno-nationalism, not artificial unions: federal Iberia, federal Italy, federal Gaul, federal Germany etc. etc. No more hatred between European folks.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 10:47 AM
Germans don't imagine the sufference and the silent anger of Southern Europe, but it will become a real problem for them. When the Fourth Industrial Revolution will hit weak countries, like Greece and Italy, our governments will be not able to introduce a basic income thanks to austerity and the only alternative for our rulling class will be a political repression against us. The unregulated immigration of this days is another danger, because the low-skilled workers, who work in our industry and agriculture, will lose their job and will put under pressure our welfare system.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
08-21-2017, 10:48 AM
The solution is more ethno-nationalism, not artificial unions: federal Iberia, federal Italy, federal Gaul, federal Germany etc. etc. No more hatred between European folks.

Federalism in Portugal would make no sense though, no need to divide a nation that has not ethnic divisions.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:49 AM
Federalism in Portugal would make no sense though, no need to divide a nation that has not ethnic divisions.

Not in Portugal man, in Iberia. Portugal is just a part of Iberia.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
08-21-2017, 10:52 AM
Not in Portugal man, in Iberia. Portugal is just a part of Iberia.

Something like an United States of Iberia? That wouldn't be beneficial for us from an identitarian perspective.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:54 AM
My point of view is, obviously, from a foreigner: but I don't think there's a huge identitarian gap between Portugal-Galicia, Spain/Castilla, Basqueland and Catalunya.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 10:57 AM
Federalism is another way to increase the economic inequality between wealthy and poor regions. A nation is based on the idea of solidarity, so, if every poor region or individual is abandoned, why should we mantain a sigle state, a single army, a single money, a single goverment?

wvwvw
08-21-2017, 10:58 AM
Britain, USA, Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, France should ally against Germany and its East-central, Baltic satelites.

Ouistreham
08-21-2017, 11:02 AM
The EU as it is now and its € are inherently abject failures.

Setting up a regional mini-UE would just bring about similar problems (and probably worse).

There is only one solution I can think of: Italexist, Grexit, Spainxit, Portuxit... Each economy with its own currency tailored to suit their own needs.

Of course it will not be easy in the beginning:


We will face the real problems in our financial systems, because the Credit rating agencies will punish us, there will be a bank run and the government bonds, which belong to our banks, will fall down.
Quite right.
The Euro is a death trap.
. You stay in it, you're sure to be fucked up.
. You leave, you get a reasonable chance to start over again after some delay.
Option 2 is the better choice.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 11:02 AM
Federalism is another way to increase the economic inequality between wealthy and poor regions. A nation is based on the idea of solidarity, so, if every poor region or individual is abandoned, why should we mantain a sigle state, a single army, a single money, a single goverment?

The inequality of, for example, Italy is not simply economic: at first is ethno-cultural, genetic, geographical etc. Italy is, for sure, a historical concept, born in the Roman era, but as we can see every day we are not a homogeneous country: I identify at least 6 ethnical areas, Lombardy, Venethia, Etruria, Ausonia, Enotria and Sardinia.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 11:04 AM
Unluckily I think that United Kingdom is too different, powerful and close to Usa to become an ally of Italy and Southern Europe against Germany, but I honestly admire the courage that the British people showed during the Brexit referendum. The strategic interests of France are completely different from those of Italy, if you consider that they have invaded Libia (to obtain the oil of Geddafi, an ally of Italian government) and abandoned Italy in the migrant crisis.

Ouistreham
08-21-2017, 11:12 AM
The strategic interests of France are completely different from those of Italy
Nations have no friends, only interests.


You are correct when you talk about a "New German Empire", as today's Germany is becoming incredibly wealthy, and, together with China, is basically carrying the world economy. There is no chance for southern Europe to stand up to Germany and the EU, really. I think at this point, the most you can do is to make the best of a bad situation. Integrate more into the EU. What else is there? Don't become an enemy to Germany, that will be your end.
There is no "German imperialism" or "Merkelreich" per se.
The Germans just took advantage of a fantastic historical opportunity when their Eastern neighbours joined the EU. That way they got in their backyard lots of cheap subcontractors that allow Germany to export worldwide so-called 'Made in Germany' products that are actually Polish-, Czech, Romanian-made crap.
This will last only for a while. At some point Eastern Europeans will become wary of contributing to German prosperity for much lower wages.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 11:12 AM
The inequality of, for example, Italy is not simply economic: at first is ethno-cultural, genetic, geographical etc. Italy is, for sure, a historical concept, born in the Roman era, but as we can see every day we are not a homogeneous country: I identify at least 6 ethnical areas, Lombardy, Venethia, Etruria, Ausonia, Enotria and Sardinia.

Your "ancestors" (Garibaldi,...) have decided to unify a community under "a common destine", so you have to accept the consequences of their actions and help the region which became poorer after the Italian Unification, like Sicily or Campania. If you don't accept them, you can propose a secession.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 11:17 AM
Nations have no friends, only interests.
I know, but France and its president have not respected our interests. The European Union have imposed a single free market, but they nationalise their companies, when Finmeccanica is going to buy them. A lot of our companies have been absorbed by French multinationals, but our politicians couldn't do anything. Macron wants to become the closest ally of Angela Merkel, but the economic situation of France is really less prosperous than that of Germany.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 11:19 AM
Your "ancestors" (Garibaldi,...) have decided to unify a community under "a common destine", so you have to accept the consequences of their actions and help the region which become poorer after the Italian Unification, like Sicily or Campania. If you don't accept them, you can propose a secession.

I don't give more importance at the economical question: I care about blood, soil, spirit. Italy is not the Italian Republic, or the Italian monarchy or again the Fascist Italy, in other words Italy is not the Italian state; it's a "multi-ethnic" reality with, for sure, an ancient common substratum but, since the pre-Roman era, we are different, plus 1500 years of political separation. Ethno-federalism is the best solution, and I think so for the other great historical realities of Europe.

Anyway, trust me: the economic gap between North and South is not a Risorgimento matter, is the product of centuries and centuries of culture and behaviors. Furthermore, the worst way for South Italy is centralism and welfarism because it need to walk with its own legs.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 11:26 AM
I don't give more importance at the economical question: I care about blood, soil, spirit. Italy is not the Italian Republic, or the Italian monarchy or again the Fascist Italy, in other words Italy is not the Italian state; it's a "multi-ethnic" reality with, for sure, an ancient common substratum but, since the pre-Roman era, we are different, plus 1500 years of political separation. Ethno-federalism is the best solution, and I think so for the other great historical realities of Europe.

Anyway, trust me: the economic gap between North and South is not a Risorgimento matter, is the product of centuries and centuries of culture and behaviors. Furthermore, the worst way for South Italy is centralism and welfarism because it need to walk with its own legs.
I can appear too materialistic, but the economy is very important, because poverty have caused a lot of suffernce in Southern Italy. I don't believe in phrases like "need to walk with its own legs", because a centralistic system would help us to fight against the interests of corrupt local politicians (consider the benefits of the Sicilian regional parliament) and develop our industry with investments.

I don't say that the gap is totally caused by unification, but the Italian monarchy showed a racist attitude toward us (which is dramatically similar to attitude of German of these days) and the end of Borbonic economy policy have caused a shock in our undeveloped economic system.

Ouistreham
08-21-2017, 11:42 AM
I know, but France and its president have not respected our interests. The European Union have imposed a single free market, but they nationalise their companies, when Finmeccanica is going to buy them.
This is a very specific case. The (State-owned) Finmeccanica company claimed 100% control over the French shipyards in Saint-Nazaire while at the same time opening a partnership with low-cost Chinese shipbuilders. The risk of seeing valuable know-how (especially in the military field) being moved to Asia was just too obvious.


A lot of our companies have been absorbed by French multinationals, but our politicians couldn't do anything.
Thats' right.
French companies are currently swallowing one after another Italian businesses in the banking, insurance, telecom, media and retailing sectors. But in those businesses the activity and the customer base are in Italy and cannot be moved elsewhere. The only risk is that profits, if any, will go to French shareholders. If Italian authorities want to prevent it, I won't object in any way.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 11:42 AM
I can appear too materialistic, but the economy is very important, because poverty have caused a lot of suffernce in Southern Italy. I don't believe in phrases like "need to walk with its own legs", because a centralistic system would help us to fight against the interests of corrupt local politicians (consider the benefits of the Sicilian regional parliament) and develop our industry with investments.

I don't say that the gap is totally caused by unification, but the Italian monarchy showed a racist attitude toward us (which is dramatically similar to attitude of German of these days) and the end of Borbonic economy policy have caused a shock in our undeveloped economic system.

The problem of Italy is its state, just a colony of Nato and the US without any kind of sovereignty. Btw Sicily and Sicilians lack auto-determination because the ongoing political changes of the past have disadvanteged people, unable to impose their own will. It's because of this that I'm saying that welfarism and centralism are a big mistake for Southerners.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 11:57 AM
This is a very specific case. The (State-owned) Finmeccanica company claimed 100% control over the French shipyards in Saint-Nazaire while at the same time opening a partnership with low-cost Chinese shipbuilders. The risk of seeing valuable know-how (especially in the military field) being moved to Asia was just too obvious.


Thats' right.
French companies are currently swallowing one after another Italian businesses in the banking, insurance, telecom, media and retailing sectors. But in those businesses the activity and the customer base are in Italy and cannot be moved elsewhere. The only risk is that profits, if any, will go to French shareholders. If Italian authorities want to prevent it, I won't object in any way.

I don't think that the delocation and the the loss of profit are the only dangers for Italian businesses and I know that there was a specific agreement with your former president Hollande, which the new French government have decided not to respect. Did they justify this decision by the patnership with low-cost Chinese shipbuilders? I didn't know, because our media didn't say it. I will see.

Ouistreham
08-21-2017, 11:57 AM
Italy and Spain have huge industry sectors. I think you're underestimating them.
Right.
In terms of industrial exports Italy is behind France but slightly ahead of the UK.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 12:03 PM
The problem of Italy is its state, just a colony of Nato and the US without any kind of sovereignty. Btw Sicily and Sicilians lack auto-determination because the ongoing political changes of the past have disadvanteged people, unable to impose their own will. It's because of this that I'm saying that welfarism and centralism are a big mistake for Southerners.

When a welfare system doesn't exist, local politicians can impose their power by giving to their "clientes" useless public work. The state must be reformed, but the myth that all our problems are caused by corrupt beurecrats doesn't work and a federalist system will increase the number of offices, seats, clerks, local administrators, local politicians, etc., when with IT technology we can create a system controlled by a smaller number of politicians, whose actions are directly judget by public opinion.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 12:45 PM
When a welfare system doesn't exist, local politicians can impose their power by giving to their "clientes" useless public work. The state must be reformed, but the myth that all our problems are caused by corrupt beurecrats doesn't work and a federalist system will increase the number of offices, seats, clerks, local administrators, local politicians, etc., when with IT technology we can create a system controlled by a smaller number of politicians, whose actions are directly judget by public opinion.

That's because in the deep South (with maffia affairs et similia) a military commissioner would be needed, but in Central-North, where we have an ancient tradition of auto-determination, liberal arts and "comunalismo", statalism with a central-southern profile (modern Rome) would be a worse solution. I think that federalism will be helpful for Italy, in particular for identitarian instances, but not a liberal federalism because I prefer a presidentialist government where every Italian agree on our common interests: defense, army, immigration, currency, geopolitics, civic religion etc.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 01:03 PM
Even if our government is based in modern Rome (Central Italy), you cannot blame "southerners", because most politicians and administrators come from Northern and Central Italy. I know that there is a prestigious tradition of free municipalities in Northern Italy, but it lasted until 15th century with the birth of principalities (I am not an expert of Italian history). When there was the Italian unification, Northern Italy was occupied by weak "microstates" and colonies of external powers, like the Kingdom of Lombardy–Venetia dominated by the Austrian Empire. A federalistic state is divided by regional interests, which make the goverment more difficult and, I repeat, more expensive. Why should Sicilians, Neapolitans,etc. accept a military commissioner imposed by Lombardy or Rome? The history teaches that the strategy to become voluntarily the colony of someone does not work (consider the example of the German-dominated European Union).

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 01:16 PM
Even if our government is based in modern Rome (Central Italy), you cannot blame "southerners", because most politicians and administrators come from Northern and Central Italy. I know that there is a prestigious tradition of free municipalities in Northern Italy, but it lasted until 15th century with the birth of principalities (I am not an expert of Italian history). When there was the Italian unification, Northern Italy was occupied by weak "microstates" and colonies of external powers, like the Kingdom of Lombardy–Venetia dominated by the Austrian Empire. A federalistic state is divided by regional interests, which make the goverment more difficult and, I repeat, more expensive. Why should Sicilians, Neapolitans,etc. accept a military commissioner imposed by Lombardy or Rome? The history teaches that the strategy to become voluntarily the colony of someone does not work (consider the example of the German-dominated European Union).

Maffia is not a product of the North, is a product of some degenerate S. Italians. I think that the North could indemnify the South for the Risorgimento side effects but is not fair that North Italy suffers the faults of South, that's why a federalism is needed, especially in Italy, a country so complicated and difficult to govern. The other way is neo-fascism, but I doubt would be a great choice. Keep in mind that "Padania", with the southern exodus, has lost much about its identity. As an identitarian I condemn at all this.

Lavrentis
08-21-2017, 01:22 PM
Greece is many times more fucked than Italy, Spain and Portugal.

I think the economic crisis will end someday. It might last long, but we must have patience. This Mediterranean union is not possible imo.






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Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 01:37 PM
Maffia is not a product of the North, is a product of some degenerate S. Italians. I think that the North could indemnify the South for the Risorgimento side effects but is not fair that North Italy suffers the faults of South, that's why a federalism is needed, especially in Italy, a country so complicated and difficult to govern. The other way is neo-fascism, but I doubt would be a great choice. Keep in mind that "Padania", with the southern exodus, has lost much about its identity. As an identitarian I condemn at all this.
If you consider Southern Italy partly degenerate, you should say that we are not able to modernise our land without a centralistic model in the field, for example, of education. The local government would not have a long-term project and would be closer to citizens, more weak and more susceptible to the influence of particularist intersts, also in Northern Italy. From the identirian point of view, you have to admit that the first victims of Italian Unification were "Southerner" migrants (among which there were some of our best talents) and Neaples, which was an important cultural centre of Europe and is now considered by tourists and Italians a wild land of the Third World ("Hic sunt leones"). I want to point out the the Maffia was an important ally of a lot of administrators or politicians from Northern and Central Italy (e.g., Giolitti) and that its origins are an object of controversy.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 01:47 PM
Greece is many times more fucked than Italy, Spain and Portugal.

I think the economic crisis will end someday. It might last long, but we must have patience. This Mediterranean union is not possible imo.
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I repeat: our countries are not prepared to Fourth Industrial Revolution and the following dramatic technological unemployment, because they will not be able to create a basic income in the days of radical Nordic-imposed austerity. I don't want to be too pessimistic, but it will be a disaster for us and our politicians will be forced to organize a sort of mass repression to manage the protests of unemployed people and low-skilled migrants, who will lost their jobs. We cannot decide our monetary policy, our fiscal molicy, our commercial policy, etc. and our rulling class is reiceving a sort of immunity from EU. I prefer a leap in the dark to a certain death.

We can't compare the condition of countries like Greece or Italy to 1997 Asian financial crisis, because crises sometimes last for centuries or are the beginning of a fatal transformation, such as the Fall of the Roman Empire.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 02:46 PM
If you consider Southern Italy partly degenerate, you should say that we are not able to modernise our land without a centralistic model in the field, for example, of education. The local government would not have a long-term project and would be closer to citizens, more weak and more susceptible to the influence of particularist intersts, also in Northern Italy. From the identirian point of view, you have to admit that the first victims of Italian Unification were "Southerner" migrants (among which there were some of our best talents) and Neaples, which was an important cultural centre of Europe and is now considered by tourists and Italians a wild land of the Third World ("Hic sunt leones"). I want to point out the the Maffia was an important ally of a lot of administrators or politicians from Northern and Central Italy (e.g., Giolitti) and that its origins are an object of controversy.

Every folk has its degeneration: North Italy has individualism and liberalism, while South has mafiosi for (almost) every region. We agree on the corruption of our state and that's why we should make a sort of pacific revolution for re-build it on identitarian aims, so federalism, or better, ethno-federalism. The other way is a fascist state but I don't think is possibile, nowadays. I prefer presindentialism, but with a federal parliament (not with 20 fake regions but made with 5-6 ethnic macro-areas).

Cristiano viejo
08-21-2017, 03:14 PM
Honestly, I think the chances of that succeeding would be about 0.00001%. Without German structure and order there's nothing, what all those countries have in common is a lot more corruption and a lot less industry. Add to that they pretty much function due to EU-handouts at this point, without which they would collapse a long time ago (PIGS).
Good joke but before the EU Spanish economy, unemployment, public safety, etc was much better.

EU has forced at least to Spain (and I guess this happens in other Southern countries) to dismantle its agriculture and farming and part of our industry, with the sad excuse of the surpluses. It is very well known the facts happened in the dairy industry, where the Spanish farmers have been forced to destroy thousands and thousands and thousands of litres of milk "because the surpluses" :rolleyes:

Same has happened in agriculture, where thousands and thousands hectares of gravepines have been torn out with the same excuse.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 03:20 PM
Every folk has its degeneration: North Italy has individualism and liberalism, while South has mafiosi for (almost) every region. We agree on the corruption of our state and that's why we should make a sort of pacific revolution for re-build it on identitarian aims, so federalism, or better, ethno-federalism. The other way is a fascist state but I don't think is possibile, nowadays. I prefer presindentialism, but with a federal parliament (not with 20 fake regions but made with 5-6 ethnic macro-areas).

I repeat: Mafia and clientelism have less influence at a national level than at a regional level and a self-governed Northern Italy would be more free to abandon the poorest regions of Southern Italy, causing long-term problems, such as poverty, secessionism and undevelopment. The 5-6 ethnic macro-areas are not compatible with the culture of a lot of our regions. For examples, in Abruzzo and Molise we don't have a strong regional/racial identity, but it is very popular municipalism. If you don't have a scientific and universal criterium to divide a state, you must base your decisions on economic considerations, which are important to defend the material well-being of people. There should not be any middle way between a single unified state and an international group of countries which mediate. That is why European Union is not working. The federalism has worked in particular contests, in which there have been an historical compromise between regions, which were economically integrated, but it has not happened in Germany, where East Germany is again poorer than the rest of the country, even if it has received a lot of investment from the central goverment.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 03:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 03:48 PM
Good joke but before the EU Spanish economy, unemployment, public safety, etc was much better.

EU has forced at least to Spain (and I guess this happens in other Southern countries) to dismantle its agriculture and farming and part of our industry, with the sad excuse of the surpluses. It is very well known the facts happened in the dairy industry, where the Spanish farmers have been forced to destroy thousands and thousands and thousands of litres of milk "because the surpluses" :rolleyes:

Same has happened in agriculture, where thousands and thousands hectares of gravepines have been torn out with the same excuse.

I would like to see European Union establishing a common indutrial policy, so the Germans would be forced to destroy BMW and Mercedes cars because the surpluses. They have prohibited Italy to be "too generous" with small enterprises hit by the Amatrice earthquake (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/706829/Italy-earthquake-EU-controls-money) and they have prohibited us to save four stupid local banks because of the bail-in, but they have saved a lot of banks using state funds (http://www.dw.com/en/three-german-banks-tap-state-funds-for-aid/a-3811646).

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 04:07 PM
I repeat: Mafia and clientelism have less influence at a national level than at a regional level and a self-governed Northern Italy would be more free to abandon the poorest regions of Southern Italy, causing long-term problems, such as poverty, secessionism and undevelopment. The 5-6 ethnic macro-areas are not compatible with the culture of a lot of our regions. For examples, in Abruzzo and Molise we don't have a strong regional/racial identity, but it is very popular municipalism. If you don't have a scientific and universal criterium to divide a state, you must base your decisions on economic considerations, which are important to defend the material well-being of people. There should not be any middle way between a single unified state and an international group of countries which mediate. That is why European Union is not working. The federalism has worked in particular contests, in which there have been an historical compromise between regions, which were economically integrated, but it has not happened in Germany, where East Germany is again poorer than the rest of the country, even if it has received a lot of investment from the central goverment.

So in your mind North Italy should maintain South Italy for ever? That's comical. You need to walk with your legs, mate: if it's wrong the European Union is also wrong (and worst) a centralist Italy unbalanced by the problem of your people. The worst problem of Southerners is the "assistenzialismo" mixed with local maffia, and of course the eternal victimism against the evil North etc. etc. Since Italy is not homogeneous we need a republic that respects the main identities of Italian folks: South Italy is very homogeneous compared with the North; infacts there was for centuries a common kingdom, from Abruzzo to Sicily. Scientific criteria are languages, ethnic background, culture, mentality and of course economics (that is a product of mind and behavior). Federalism is the best way because is in the middle: neither a centralist state founded on the disease of Central-South Italy, nor a pre-unitarian Italy with 20/30 different political entities without any importance.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 04:07 PM
The solution is more ethno-nationalism, not artificial unions: federal Iberia, federal Italy, federal Gaul, federal Germany etc. etc. No more hatred between European folks.

No need to split first because it would be destructive for economy in nowadays markets, second, apart from German speaking people in Alto Adige we don't have that much ethnic differences. I don't understand where you see all these ethnic "differences". Italy is not like Russia...

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 04:14 PM
No need to split first because it would be destructive for economy in nowadays markets, second, apart from German speaking people in Alto Adige we don't have that much ethnic differences. I don't see where you see all these ethnic "differences".

North Italy is sub-continental, western Romance, gallo-romance, and is not peninsular. There were 1500 years of division but, at first, our diversity come from pre-Roman era. We are overwhelmed by genetic plots and you think there are no important difference? Or better, there isn't a huge gap between North and Tuscany but for sure there is between North and South. I don't understand why Southerners hate federalism...

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 04:16 PM
So in your mind North Italy should maintain South Italy for ever? That's comical. You need to walk with your legs, mate: if it's wrong the European Union is also wrong (and worst) a centralist Italy unbalanced by the problem of your people. The worst problem of Southerners is the "assistenzialismo" mixed with local maffia, and of course the eternal victimism against the evil North etc. etc. Since Italy is not homogeneous we need a republic that respects the main identities of Italian folks: South Italy is very homogeneous compared with the North; infacts there was for centuries a common kingdom, from Abruzzo to Sicily. Scientific criteria are languages, ethnic background, culture, mentality and of course economics (that is a product of mind and behavior). Federalism is the best way because is in the middle: neither a centralist state founded on the disease of Central-South Italy, nor a pre-unitarian Italy with 20/30 different political entities without any importance.

Of course, I do not think that we should eliminate all the local administrations, which are established by our costitution, and or transform Southern Italy in a land occupied by long-term unemployed people, who are eternal parasites of the "descendants" of Garibaldi, but I would like to see a state which makes the bureaucracy more efficient through models imposed by central administrations (it is the same strategy of big companies) and invests in Southern Italy in order to improve our services (hospitals, schools,...) and help some strategic industries.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 04:19 PM
North Italy is sub-continental, western Romance, gallo-romance, and is not peninsular. There were 1500 years of division but, at first, our diversity come from pre-Roman era. We are overwhelmed by genetic plots and you think there are no important difference? Or better, there isn't a huge gap between North and Tuscany but for sure there is between North and South. I don't understand why Southerners hate federalism...

States don't base their unity on genetics...

If Italy is unite under one flag is not for "genetics" but for a common culture. If we must build Europe according to "genetics" it would be unrecognizable...
Your destructive ideas (which i respect but i find them quite hilarious nowadays) will never find a common agreement...
...apart on the web or among Northern League clowns.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 04:25 PM
States don't base their unity on genetics...

If Italy is unite under one flag is not for "genetics" but for a common culture. If we must build Europe according to "genetics" it would be unrecognizable...
Your destructive ideas (which i respect but i find them quite hilarious nowadays) will never find a common agreement...
...apart on the web or among Northern League clowns.

You find destructive my ideas? So you know nothing about those Sicilian idiots who feel Arab and islamic and want a secession from Rome for this! I see nothing destructive in a federalism which respect the historical and cultural concept of Italy. And you can't deny the internal differences. I defend Italy and my sub-national identity without any contradiction. I'm Italian and Lombardian at the same time.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 04:33 PM
You find destructive my ideas?

Yes, but also hilarious nowadays.


So you know nothing about those Sicilian idiots who feel Arab and islamic and want a secession from Rome for this!

Who? :confused:
Never heard about it. Sicilians who feel Arab? Are you drunken?
I doubt Sicilians like to be compared to Arabs...


I see nothing destructive in a federalism which respect the historical and cultural concept of Italy.

Minor regional differences (food variety, folktales etc...) are already respected without need to split...


And you can't deny the internal differences.

What internal differences? Only because in Lombardy you cook pasta in a different way than Campania doesn't mean Italians are different...

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 05:16 PM
^ They are not hilarious at all, the Northerners (in North Italy) are almost being replaced by Southerners, as with modern immigrants. If you think that I must be happy for Southern exodus you are probably mad.

Who? These fools for example: http://www.sicilianiliberi.org/index.php/2017-05-29-20-45-09/storia-istituzionale-di-sicilia/112-storia-istituzionale-della-sicilia-lo-stato-arabo-siculo

No no no, your idea of "internal differences" have nothing to do with reality, but it's normal since they are, usually, S. Italians that hate every identitarian discussion: North Italy has a sub-mediterranean climate, it's not peninsular, is Western Romance-Gallo Italic (Massa-Senigallia line, dude), is genetically similar to Iberians or Southern Frenchmen while South is more Greek-shifted; there are important differences in a anthropological way (we can often distinguish a North from a South Italian), and of course with diet, folklore, behaviour (North Italy is not Mediterranean as you think, is half way between Med and Mitteleuropa). Nevertheless remember that "Italy" was a Central-Southern concept till Julius Caesar, or better, a Southern concept (the southern tip of Calabria). Italic tribes were, furthermore, concentrated in Central-South part of modern Italy, as well.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 05:20 PM
Who? These fools for example: http://www.sicilianiliberi.org/index.php/2017-05-29-20-45-09/storia-istituzionale-di-sicilia/112-storia-istituzionale-della-sicilia-lo-stato-arabo-siculo

What's that? lol

Indipendentist blog... that's awesome...

The topic of the site is Sicilian indipendentism (clowns), the page you posted is about the history during the Islamic period nothing to do with Sicilians who "feel" Arab... :picard1:


No no no, your idea of "internal differences" have nothing to do with reality, but it's normal since they are, usually, S. Italians that hate every identitarian discussion: North Italy has a sub-mediterranean climate, it's not peninsular, is Western Romance-Gallo Italic (Massa-Senigallia line, dude), is genetically similar to Iberians or Southern Frenchmen while South is more Greek-shifted; there are important differences in a anthropological way (we can often distinguish a North from a South Italian), and of course with diet, folklore, behaviour (North Italy is not Mediterranean as you think, is half way between Med and Mitteleuropa). Nevertheless remember that "Italy" was a Central-Southern concept till Julius Caesar, or better, a Southern concept (the southern tip of Calabria). Italic tribes were, furthermore, concentrated in Central-South part of modern Italy, as well.

You live in your world. Wake up, we have niggas in our country and you like to split Italians bringing up unknown and/or insignificant differences... :picard1:
Nice "nationalist" you are... a nationalist clown i would say. :laugh:

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 05:31 PM
^ Nah, the problem is that you are the usual butthurt terrone, nothing new here. You're unable to understand what is ethno-nationalism, nothing to do with your fascio-terronic nationalism. In Sicily there are independentists and self-hate guys who want embrace islam as their fantascientific ancestors. They are very very rare but still present; it's some sort of mental illness. Don't you know the Sicilian Buttafuoco and his conversion to islam? That's just a case of this kind of morons.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 05:34 PM
You're probably the usual immigrant wannabe Italian. Nothing new here.

Shit i need to add another clown to my circus...
Like if there weren't enough clowns on this website of people with fantasies and obsessions.

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 05:35 PM
^ They are not hilarious at all, the Northerners (in North Italy) are almost being replaced by Southerners, as with modern immigrants. If you think that I must be happy for Southern exodus you are probably mad.

Who? These fools for example: http://www.sicilianiliberi.org/index.php/2017-05-29-20-45-09/storia-istituzionale-di-sicilia/112-storia-istituzionale-della-sicilia-lo-stato-arabo-siculo

No no no, your idea of "internal differences" have nothing to do with reality, but it's normal since they are, usually, S. Italians that hate every identitarian discussion: North Italy has a sub-mediterranean climate, it's not peninsular, is Western Romance-Gallo Italic (Massa-Senigallia line, dude), is genetically similar to Iberians or Southern Frenchmen while South is more Greek-shifted; there are important differences in a anthropological way (we can often distinguish a North from a South Italian), and of course with diet, folklore, behaviour (North Italy is not Mediterranean as you think, is half way between Med and Mitteleuropa). Nevertheless remember that "Italy" was a Central-Southern concept till Julius Caesar, or better, a Southern concept (the southern tip of Calabria). Italic tribes were, furthermore, concentrated in Central-South part of modern Italy, as well.

If most Sicilians wanted to become muslims and become a colony of a state of the Middle East, they would be free to do it thanks to the sacred right of self-determination, whose application implies secession, not federalism or support for mass immigration. Even if I have never met a Sicilian, I think that most of them are too smart to support an idea of this kind and that this site is the expression of a small group. It is not true that all Southern Italians are not identitarian, but the real problem is that their attention is absorbed by material deprivation, and I am sure that a lot of them know the effects of mass unregulated immigration, which is destroying a lot of poor remote towns and villages, where the only people who are happier are some “no-profit” businessmen and some landowners who can exploit low-skilled cheaper workers. (The original subject of this thread was the relationship of the German-dominated European Union and Southern Europe, so I will try to answer all the possible questions/opinions about this matter).

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 05:37 PM
You're probably the usual immigrant wannabe Italian. Nothing new here.

Shit i need to add another clown to my circus...
Like if there weren't enough clowns on this website of people with fantasies.

"The usual immigrant wannabe Italian" HAHAHAHAHA. I'm more Italian than you, buffoon, don't worry. You have rather to add some brain in your cranium.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 05:39 PM
"The usual immigrant wannabe Italian" HAHAHAHAHA. I'm more Italian than you, buffoon, don't worry. You have rather to add some brain in your cranium.

http://www.comicstore.it/3509-thickbox_leodres/kit-make-up-clown-pagliaccio.jpg

Cristiano viejo
08-21-2017, 06:17 PM
^ Nah, the problem is that you are the usual butthurt terrone,

heheheheh this made me laugh :D

Sebastianus Rex
08-21-2017, 06:36 PM
With this political class is impossible to change anything, they all feed on the European Union. If the EU collapses it will be because of France, if FN ever gets elected.

Mens-Sarda
08-21-2017, 07:02 PM
One thing is sure, on this forum you never get bored

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 07:06 PM
heheheheh this made me laugh :D

You laugh easily then Moor. :D

That user Sizzo is a clown just like you. ;)
Two clowns who don't know the meaning of that word and use it on wrong persons. You abuse it too.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 08:08 PM
When I talk about ethno-cultural topics of Italy, with Italians, there's only one category that gets systematically upset and sensitive hearing the word "federalism" or "ethno-nationalism": Southerners. Because they think that the federalist argument is some sort of Lega Nord, and anti-meridionali invention; forgive them, Carlo Cattaneo. And, in any case, LN and Salvini are not anti-Southerners; actually the current Lega Nord is nationalist and don't care anymore about internal divisions. It's not my fault if some meridionale thinks that ethno-federalism is hatred for South Italy.

@Minerva: you cry for "terrone" but you call "moor" an Iberian?

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 08:12 PM
With this political class is impossible to change anything, they all feed on the European Union. If the EU collapses it will be because of France, if FN ever gets elected.

You may be right: a democratic change of this situation is very difficult, because our rulling class is receiving a sort of political immunity in exchange for their support for the "European dream" and media support systematically a dogmatic Pro-Europeanism influencing the public opinion, which is also feared by the (plausible) danger of a financial/banking crisis. An improvvise financial crisis hitting the Eurozone or the rise of a "populist" movement (imposed by an external power perhaps, like Russia) may be the only possibilities to destroy this German-dominated dictactorship, but they would really pose risks.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 08:13 PM
@Minerva: you cry for "terrone" but you call "moor" an Iberian?

I cry for nothing random online user. I don't know what do you mean with that. I called CV Moor many times. The word Moor fits him much more than the word Terrone to me since i'm not related to South Italy. :laugh:
The way you guys abuse it on wrong persons is amusing.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 08:22 PM
^ Yes yes, the famous nationalists of Parma and Emilia, the most leftist area of Italy as a whole. You described yourself as Etruscan and Latin... Ligurians? Celts? Lombards? Never been in western Emilia, these guys? If you're not a full-blooded Southerner/Central-Southerner you'd be a "hybrid". After all, who cares? But it's very strange that a pure Emilian is so sensitive when someone defends the identity of North Italy.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 08:27 PM
^ Yes yes, the famous nationalists of Parma and Emilia, the most leftist area of Italy as a whole. You described yourself as Etruscan and Latin... Ligurians? Celts? Lombards? Never been in western Emilia, these guys? If you're not a full-blooded Southerner/Central-Southerner you'd be a "hybrid". After all, who cares? But it's very strange that a pure Emilian is so sensitive when someone defends the identity of North Italy.

Defending the identity of North Italy? You sound like those Northern League clowns...
Your ideas are part of a dead propaganda started with Bossi (and that will probably die with him) since Salvini seems to be different from his predecessors. Don't worry there are still clowns inside the party.

How many Northern Italians you encountered immigrant? :rolleyes:
Do you think they care of these divisions? Poor naive...

Unlike you i'm more open minded. I'm not like those regionalist secessionists that fill the web with bullshits.

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 08:40 PM
Defending the identity of North Italy? You sound like those Northern League clowns...
Your ideas are part of a dead propaganda started with Bossi (and that will probably die with him) since Salvini seems to be different from his predecessors. Don't worry there are still clowns inside the party.

How many Northern Italians you encountered immigrant? :rolleyes:
Do you think they care of this divisions? Poor naive...

Unlike you i'm more open minded. I'm not like those regionalist secessionists that fill the web with bullshits.

You're only a pathetic caricature, typical of anthro-fora. Bossi? Lega Nord? Ethno-nationalism has nothing to do with this rubbish: read Gualtiero Ciola, Silvano Lorenzoni, Federico Prati, Flavio Grisolia, Harm Wulf, Gilberto Oneto, Adriano Romualdi, or even Freda and Evola. Blood, soil, spirit. Lega Nord is only a burgeoise party full of timeservers and bootlickers.
Again with "immigrant", hahaha! I'm a real person and I'm a full-blooded Bergamask, moron, not a stupid southern avatar like you.

Ciao terù

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 08:41 PM
You're only a pathetic caricature, typical of anthro-fora. Bossi? Lega Nord? Ethno-nationalism has nothing to do with this rubbish: read Gualtiero Ciola, Silvano Lorenzoni, Federico Prati, Flavio Grisolia, Harm Wulf, Gilberto Oneto, Adriano Romualdi, or even Freda and Evola. Blood, soil, spirit. Lega Nord is only a borgeoise party full of timeservers and bootlickers.
Again with "immigrant", hahaha! I'm a real person and I'm a full-blooded Bergamask, moron, not a stupid southern avatar like you.

Ciao terù

Whatever makes you happy. Good night...
...immigrant clown :D

Cristiano viejo
08-21-2017, 09:18 PM
You laugh easily then Moor. :D

That user Sizzo is a clown just like you. ;)
Two clowns who don't know the meaning of that word and use it on wrong persons. You abuse it too.

Look who speaks about does not knowning the meaning of the words, and abusing of it :lol:

It was funny that a true Italian called you Terrone :noidea:

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 09:19 PM
Look who speaks about does not knowning the meaning of the words, and abusing of it :lol:

It was funny that an immigrant wannabe Italian called you Terrone :noidea:

Fix'd. :thumb001:

But i agree Rodrigo, it's funny because both of you always use it on wrong persons without knowing the meaning but just aiming to "offend".

Alessio
08-21-2017, 09:25 PM
Neo-imperialist Germany and its European allies (e.g., Eastern Europe, Nordic countries, France) are destroying Southern Europe by imposing the free market, which will be a disaster for the weakest economies, and austerity, which has not been able to solve the problem of highest sovereign debts. Thanks to the euro the European peripheral countries cannot practice autonomously competitive devaluation or expansionary monetary policy, so Germany is now the first country in the world in terms of net export(List_of_countries_by_net_exports (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_exports)). German politicians influence public opinion by declaring that their problems are created by inferior peoples who “spend money in alcohol and women” (Dear Dijsselbloem, Italy is a net contributors to the EU budget and its alcohol consumption per capita is lower than that of Netherlands).

We should try to create a sort of mediterranean alliance (Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece) against the German-dominated Europe, but unluckily this would be very difficult, also because Spain is dominated by Pro-Europeanism, Greece survives only thanks to European funds and Italy is controlled by a small group of nonelected politicians.

That's fore sure :nod:

Alessio
08-21-2017, 09:29 PM
You're only a pathetic caricature, typical of anthro-fora. Bossi? Lega Nord? Ethno-nationalism has nothing to do with this rubbish: read Gualtiero Ciola, Silvano Lorenzoni, Federico Prati, Flavio Grisolia, Harm Wulf, Gilberto Oneto, Adriano Romualdi, or even Freda and Evola. Blood, soil, spirit. Lega Nord is only a burgeoise party full of timeservers and bootlickers.
Again with "immigrant", hahaha! I'm a real person and I'm a full-blooded Bergamask, moron, not a stupid southern avatar like you.

Ciao terù


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjiX-rc3P7s

You're definitely a fit!

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:02 PM
Fix'd. :thumb001:

But i agree Rodrigo, it's funny because both of you always use it on wrong persons without knowing the meaning but just aiming to "offend".

Oh, ma sei veramente convinto che io sia un immigrato dio*ane, hahaha! Poi sarebbero gli altri i pagliacci. Sei un mito

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 10:06 PM
Oh, ma sei veramente convinto che io sia un immigrato dio*ane, hahaha! Poi sarebbero gli altri i pagliacci. Sei un mito

Non sei ancora andato a letto? Vai a nanna che domani bisogna ancora combattere per la diversità etnica dell'Italia :D

Probabilmente spendi tutto il tempo su siti come questo.
Cazzo vai a lavorare...

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:12 PM
Non sei ancora andato a letto? Vai a nanna che domani bisogna ancora combattere per la diversità etnica dell'Italia :D

Probabilmente spendi tutto il tempo su siti come questo.
Cazzo vai a lavorare...

I'm sorry with the OP for this long OT, but I've found a user more brain-damaged than GiCa, and that's saying something... MinervaTeronica diocan...

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 10:14 PM
I'm sorry with the OP for this long OT, but I've found a user more brain-damaged than GiCa, and that's saying something... MinervaTeronica diocan...

Aspetta, aspetta, per te GiCa ha il cervello danneggiato!? :eek:
Strano perché sareste una bella coppia. Avete le stesse idee di federalismo etnico non lo sai? :)

Grazie per aver menzionato un'altro pagliaccio che avevo taggato tempo fa. :D
Si, proprio una bella coppia :laugh:

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:15 PM
@Minerva: guarda le date di iscrizione e la quantità dei tuoi post e dei miei e fatti due domande, rincoglionito. Io qui ci posto occasionalmente. Addio

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 10:18 PM
@Minerva: guarda la quantità dei tuoi post e dei miei e fatti due domande, rincoglionito. Io qui ci posto occasionalmente. Addio

Non esiste solo Apricity idiota immigrato. Potresti essere su altri siti simili. Io sono solo su questo e ho più post di te perché ho postato parecchie foto nella sezione "Italia".

Tu le poche cose che hai postato sono cazzate :thumb001:

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:21 PM
Non esiste solo Apricity idiota immigrato. Potresti essere su altri siti simili. Io sono solo su questo e ho più post di te perché ho postato parecchie foto nella sezione "Italia".

Tu le poche cose che hai postato sono cazzate :thumb001:

L'idiota immigrato e terone sei tu, dato che poco sopra hai scritto *un'altro e no, non frequento altri siti simili, spiacente. Tanti cari saluti agli infermieri.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 10:23 PM
L'idiota immigrato e terone sei tu, dato che poco sopra hai scritto *un'altro e no, non frequento altri siti simili, spiacente. Tanti cari saluti agli infermieri.

*Terrone stupido immigrato impara a scriverlo giusto almeno...

Sizzo
08-21-2017, 10:25 PM
*Terrone stupido immigrato impara a scriverlo giusto almeno...

Si vede che non sei del Nord, visto che per spregio spesso e volentieri diciamo "teroni" e non "terroni". Ti lascio continuare da solo adesso, tranquillo.

MinervaItalica
08-21-2017, 10:26 PM
Si vede che non sei del Nord, visto che per spregio spesso e volentieri diciamo "teroni" e non "terroni". Ti lascio continuare da solo adesso, tranquillo.

La parola si scrive con due "r" in italiano se tu non lo sai perché sei immigrato non è colpa mia :shrug:

Mens-Sarda
08-21-2017, 10:28 PM
Time break, history time :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZrCvg_dJPU&t=30s

gültekin
08-21-2017, 10:30 PM
Yes, neolithic power

Teatisfilius
08-21-2017, 11:07 PM
Yes, neolithic power

Dear man of a superior race, which will dominate the world
I prostrate before your glory
God save the Great Sultan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan), may he live forever

"Che Dio l'ommini, for de scinqu'o ssei
Tutti l'antri l'ha ffatti servitori"

Sebastianus Rex
08-22-2017, 01:15 AM
You may be right: a democratic change of this situation is very difficult, because our rulling class is receiving a sort of political immunity in exchange for their support for the "European dream" and media support systematically a dogmatic Pro-Europeanism influencing the public opinion, which is also feared by the (plausible) danger of a financial/banking crisis. An improvvise financial crisis hitting the Eurozone or the rise of a "populist" movement (imposed by an external power perhaps, like Russia) may be the only possibilities to destroy this German-dominated dictactorship, but they would really pose risks.

Well if you go beyond, Germany is only a pawn of those who control politicians. Problem nr one, the political class is totally dependant and subservient of those who control the money. Anyway on the long term the demographic pressure of the third world will asfixiate Europe, there's a tremendous demographic explosion going on in Africa, middle-east and south Asia, it will obviously arrive to a point when people can't take it no longer and will have no option than to look for alternative political solutions out of pure self-preservation instinct. But of course, things will have to get much worse, more 10-15 and I have no doubt that major changes will start to produce.


I cry for nothing random online user. I don't know what do you mean with that. I called CV Moor many times. The word Moor fits him much more than the word Terrone to me since i'm not related to South Italy. :laugh:
The way you guys abuse it on wrong persons is amusing.

Apart from the trolling that doesn't make much sense, you are the one who always claim about the great cultural and genetic homogeneity of Italy, so according to your own thinking, by being a genuine romagnolo you can't possibly be less related to terroni than someone who plots genetically close to northern Italians and has a highly latinized culture is to North Africans.

zhaoyun
08-22-2017, 01:28 AM
Germany rises up every few generations to royally fuck Europe over once again. LOL

Sebastianus Rex
08-22-2017, 01:41 AM
Germany rises up every few generations to royally fuck Europe over once again. LOL

Except this time they don't have an army nor are an independent sovereign nation like they were in the past. Nowadays Germany is only a tool.

zhaoyun
08-22-2017, 01:41 AM
Except this time they don't have an army nor are an independent sovereign nation like they were in the past.

Yeah, they did a total 180 but they are fucking Europe over in other ways.

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 09:54 AM
Well if you go beyond, Germany is only a pawn of those who control politicians. Problem nr one, the political class is totally dependant and subservient of those who control the money. Anyway on the long term the demographic pressure of the third world will asfixiate Europe, there's a tremendous demographic explosion going on in Africa, middle-east and south Asia, it will obviously arrive to a point when people can't take it no longer and will have no option than to look for alternative political solutions out of pure self-preservation instinct. But of course, things will have to get much worse, more 10-15 and I have no doubt that major changes will start to produce.
Beyond the immigration rhetoric, I think that traditional parties will find solutions to the problem of unregulated immigration, because this phenomenon can cause the rise of “populist” parties and a dramtic increase in public expenditure. For examples, in Italy Interior Minister Minniti, who is a member of the pro-immigration Democratic Party, seems to have the intention of reducing the number of arrivals by adopting different strategies, like agreements with the Libian coast guard and the regulation of the activity of non-governmental organizations in the Strait of Sicily. However, the problem of immigration to Italy is more complex, because the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Emma Bonino, has recently declared that Italy became volutarily the destination of all the African emigrants rescued in the Strait of Sicilia by a secret agreement with the European Union. I do not know why they took this decision, but some people, like the philosopher Paolo Becchi, supposed (http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/opinioni/12436473/paolo-becchi-renzi-processato-patto--migranti.html) that Matteo Renzi accepted this agreement in exchange for more budget flexibility.


Germany rises up every few generations to royally fuck Europe over once again. LOL
You are right: I think that imperialism is a cultural peculiarity of the Germans, and I hope that this situation will end and will be a lesson for Europe.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 10:03 AM
European Union is only 2 states: Germany and France. The historical concept of Europe has nothing to do with that plutocratic rabble. But I don't think that would be a great idea another sort of sub-European union because Mediterranean (or Southern) Europe isn't a homogeneous concept, in economic terms also: think about the so-called "4 motors for Europe", 3 of them are in South Europe, Lombardy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Catalonia. Well, these 3 regions are, more exactly, in SW Europe.

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 10:10 AM
European Union is only 2 states: Germany and France. The historical concept of Europe has nothing to do with that plutocratic rabble. But I don't think that would be a great idea another sort of sub-European union because Mediterranean (or Southern) Europe isn't a homogeneous concept, in economic terms also: think about the so-called "4 motors for Europe", 3 of them are in South Europe, Lombardy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Catalonia. Well, these 3 regions are, more exactly, in SW Europe.
My idea of a mediterranean alliance is not a sort of sub-European union, but I think that an agreement between the weakest European countries, which are considered PIGS, could be an opportunity to abandon the European Union or to reduce the German domination in the Eurozone by blackmailing the German government.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 10:19 AM
My idea of a mediterranean alliance is not a sort of sub-European union, but I think that an agreement between the weakest European countries, which are considered PIGS, could be an opportunity to abandon the European Union or to reduce the German domination in the Eurozone by blackmailing the German government.

Considered "PIGS" (I know the acronym) by those "good goyim" of Northern Europe? A medal to the value. Btw the Italian instance show perfectly what I'm trying to say: you cannot reduce the issue to a "Mediterranean problem" because not every Mediterranean territory has the same problems. Northern Italy and Southern Italy have got 2 different economic views, since the Middle Ages, I'd say.

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 10:27 AM
Considered "PIGS" (I know the acronym) by those "good goyim" of Northern Europe? A medal to the value. Btw the Italian instance show perfectly what I'm trying to say: you cannot reduce the issue to a "Mediterranean problem" because not every Mediterranean territory has the same problems. Northern Italy and Southern Italy have got 2 different economic views, since the Middle Ages, I'd say.

The impossibility of practicing competitive devaluation, the European agreements, which force the countries of first arrival to protect others' borders, the austerity imposed by Germany, a lack of economic competitiveness, etc. are common problems of the countries of Southern Europe (Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, except Malta) and the idea of a "soft" mediterranean alliance was proposed by different "mainstream" politicians, such as Romano Prodi, who had to admit the imperialist role of Angela Merkel (that I consider the smartest politician of the world).

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 10:47 AM
The impossibility of practicing competitive devaluation, the European agreements, which force the countries of first arrival to protect others' borders, the austerity imposed by Germany, a lack of economic competitiveness, etc. are common problems of the countries of Southern Europe (Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, except Malta) and the idea of a "soft" mediterranean alliance was proposed by different "mainstream" politicians, such as Romano Prodi, who had to admit the imperialist role of Angela Merkel (that I consider the smartest politician of the world).

I don't understand why the solution should be another artificial union. The only solution, imho, is a reinforcement of national sovereignty for the historical areas of Europe, in the Mediterranean case Iberia, Italy, Hellas, Jugoslavia, Romania... We don't need globalist dictatorship, neither europeist nor atlantic or whatever. When you join a union where there's a huge gap between the north and the south or the west and the east, the domination is all in the hands of the strongest, the richest, the most developed.You can't fight EU with another kind of sub-EU, we have only to respect the national prerogatives of every European country, without useless and destructive wars. Identity, Authority, Sovereignty

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 10:53 AM
Yes, I think a long term union of Mediterranean Europe -Italy, Greece, Iberia, Malta and probably France (I hope aelwenn is not watching) would be supported by the majority of Greeks, including me

And it's not just about economy, how can people with a healthy south European mentality who work to live and don't live to work, fit in a union with central Europeans, like the eu?

Our identity is different from central or eastern European (I don't even mention northern Europeans)

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 10:55 AM
I don't understand why the solution should be another artificial union. The only solution, imho, is a reinforcement of national sovereignty for the historical areas of Europe, in the Mediterranean case Iberia, Italy, Hellas, Jugoslavia, Romania... We don't need globalist dictatorship, neither europeist nor atlantic or whatever. When you join a union where there's a huge gap between the north and the south or the west and the east, the domination is all in the hands of the strongest, the richest, the most developed.You can't fight EU with another kind of sub-EU, we have only to respect the national prerogatives of every European country, without useless and destructive wars. Identity, Authority, Sovereignty

I repeat: In fact I would not like to live in a second international union and I imagine that other countries, like Greece or Cyprus, would not accept an imperialist Italy, but I think that, if a country wants to abandon the Eurozone, it will try to ally with other countries which are in the same situation and create a common strategy to mediate with Germany, because an unilateral and violent Italexit, Grexit, etc. could have horrible consequences, also for Germany, France, Usa (in which there is now an eurosceptic president) and their banks.

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 10:59 AM
Yes, I think a long term union of Mediterranean Europe -Italy, Greece, Iberia, Malta and probably France (I hope aelwenn is not watching) would be supported by the majority of Greeks, including me

And it's not just about economy, how can people with south European mentality who work to live and don't live to work, fit in a union with central Europeans, like the eu?

Our identity is different from central or eastern European (I don't even mention northern Europeans)

Thank you! However I would prefer a short term alliance created in order to abandon the European Union to a long-term Mediterranean Alliance, because it is the copy of a failed experiment (France of Macron is now an close ally of Angela Merkel). Please, do not believe in phrases like "mentality who work to live and don't live to work", because it is a stereotype created by Nordic and Germanic politicians in order to influence their public opinion, when Greeks are really more hard-working than Germans (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/11-countries-with-the-longest-working-hours_n_1543145.html?slideshow=true#gallery/228557/7), as noted Noam Chomsky in a recent Italian documentary.

Autrigón
08-22-2017, 11:52 AM
I don't understand why the solution should be another artificial union. The only solution, imho, is a reinforcement of national sovereignty for the historical areas of Europe, in the Mediterranean case Iberia, Italy, Hellas, Jugoslavia, Romania... We don't need globalist dictatorship, neither europeist nor atlantic or whatever. When you join a union where there's a huge gap between the north and the south or the west and the east, the domination is all in the hands of the strongest, the richest, the most developed.You can't fight EU with another kind of sub-EU, we have only to respect the national prerogatives of every European country, without useless and destructive wars. Identity, Authority, SovereigntyYes,agree with you. The countries of the EU only need more freedom to take their own decisions.
For example Greece is going to be fucked forever if the EU don't let them to manage themselves and if it is necessary come back to their own coin, etc.
In my opinion the EU worked better before the Euro coin.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 11:56 AM
Union makes strength.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 12:20 PM
Apart from the trolling that doesn't make much sense, you are the one who always claim about the great cultural and genetic homogeneity of Italy, so according to your own thinking, by being a genuine romagnolo you can't possibly be less related to terroni than someone who plots genetically close to northern Italians and has a highly latinized culture is to North Africans.

I don't care about genetics, but i never claimed we are all genetically the same (yet Italians from North, Central and South, are way much more related each other (also genetically) before with other ethnicities in Europe). In Europe, people are all genetically different, it's hard to find homogeneous countries (except maybe... microstates? :dunno:).

I'm not "Romagnolo" i'm Italian from Emilia-Romagna (Emilian-Romagnol if you want to use a regional term). Romagna and Emilia are historic cultural lands. (In any case i'm from Emilia)
Terrone is a derogatory term. I don't see why i should feel different than an Italian from the South. We are all Italian after all.

You guys should stop talking about genetics and go back to school first. Italy as whole is not much diverse than other countries in Europe.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 12:25 PM
I don't care about genetics, but i never claimed we are all genetically the same (yet Italians from North, Central and South, are way much more related each other (also genetically) before with other ethnicities in Europe). In Europe, people are all genetically different, it's hard to find homogeneous countries (except maybe... microstates? :dunno:).

I'm not "Romagnolo" i'm Italian from Emilia-Romagna (Emilian-Romagnol if you want to use a regional term). Romagna and Emilia are historic cultural lands. (In any case i'm from Emilia)
Terrone is a derogatory term. I don't see why i should feel different than an Italian from the South. We are all Italian after all.

You guys should stop talking about genetics and go back to school first. Italy as whole is not much diverse than other countries in Europe.


School? Such matters are taught, besides in prestigious fora like this, at the Uni.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 12:26 PM
School? Such matters are taught, besides in prestigious fora like this, at the Uni.

True, but some people here should go back to primary school first :laugh:

Autrigón
08-22-2017, 12:38 PM
I don't care about genetics, but i never claimed we are all genetically the same (yet Italians from North, Central and South, are way much more related each other (also genetically) before with other ethnicities in Europe). In Europe, people are all genetically different, it's hard to find homogeneous countries (except maybe... microstates? :dunno:).

I'm not "Romagnolo" i'm Italian from Emilia-Romagna (Emilian-Romagnol if you want to use a regional term). Romagna and Emilia are historic cultural lands. (In any case i'm from Emilia)
Terrone is a derogatory term. I don't see why i should feel different than an Italian from the South. We are all Italian after all.

You guys should stop talking about genetics and go back to school first. Italy as whole is not much diverse than other countries in Europe.For sure, all the countries with a big extension of territory have different genetics (not very big differences obviously) depending of the region...Nothern French vs Southern French, East English vs West English. Northern Germans vs Southern germans vs Eastern Germans...even Belgium being a small country with Flemish and Walloon.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 12:40 PM
True, but some people here should go back to primary school first :laugh:


By the way, Cicero, did you attend History and/or Comparated Genetics classes at the Uni? Just out of curiosity.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 12:41 PM
By the way, Cicero, did you attend History and/or Comparated Genetics classes at the Uni? Just out of curiosity.

No Alfonso.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 12:46 PM
No Alfonso.


Uh-huh. You answer yourself.

By the way, my name is not "Alfonso". I wish. I like it. It's another different, Cicerus Minervae Italicae.

By the way, have you passed any subject at the uni, by chance? Any subject, not necessarily a degree...

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 12:47 PM
Uh-huh. You answer youself.

By the way, my name is not "Alfonso". I wish. I like it. It's another different, Cicerus Minervae Italicae.

By the way, have you passed any subject at the uni, by chance? Any subject, not necessarily a degree...

I'm not at the Uni yet Alfonso.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 12:48 PM
I'm not at the Uni yet Alfonso.


Was you expelled perhaps or did you manage to get any degree?

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 12:49 PM
Last page has something "barbarous" non southern European that I can't explain..

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 12:49 PM
Was you expelled perhaps or did you manage to get any degree?

This useless discussion is over Alfonso.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 12:51 PM
This useless discussion is over Alfonso.


Ah, good, Cicerus Minervae Italicae... you always manage to get an emergency rear door to flee.

Congrats. You're great... again.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 12:54 PM
Ah, good, Cicerus Minervae Italicae... you always manage to get an emergency rear door to flee.

Congrats. You're great... again.

Obvious :D
I must flee from your obsessed curiosity. We are too much out of topic here.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 12:58 PM
Obvious :D
I must flee from your obsessed curiosity. We are too much out of topic here.


It was not me who started talking about "schools" and all that, magister magistrorum...

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 01:01 PM
It was not me who started talking about "schools" and all that, magister magistrorum...

You quoted me with your unnecessary curiosity about me Alfonso. But considering that you're always on this forum too probably you're another one who must go back to school.

Me and you stop talking long time ago. Better if you don't quote me at all, trust me. ;)

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 02:12 PM
I don't care about genetics, but i never claimed we are all genetically the same (yet Italians from North, Central and South, are way much more related each other (also genetically) before with other ethnicities in Europe). In Europe, people are all genetically different, it's hard to find homogeneous countries (except maybe... microstates? :dunno:).

I'm not "Romagnolo" i'm Italian from Emilia-Romagna (Emilian-Romagnol if you want to use a regional term). Romagna and Emilia are historic cultural lands. (In any case i'm from Emilia)
Terrone is a derogatory term. I don't see why i should feel different than an Italian from the South. We are all Italian after all.

You guys should stop talking about genetics and go back to school first. Italy as whole is not much diverse than other countries in Europe.


School? Such matters are taught, besides in prestigious fora like this, at the Uni.


You quoted me with your unnecessary curiosity about me Alfonso. But considering that you're always on this forum too probably you're another one who must go back to school.

Me and you stop talking long time ago. Better if you don't quote me at all, trust me. ;)


Unnecessarily?

You're sending us to school!!

"You guys should to go to school first..."

C'mon... stop bragging, Cicero... You're one of the most ignorant people I've met in these fora.... and do you dare send other people back to school!!??

Go yourself fucking back to school fucking first, bragging cretin....


By the way, paleto, I'll quote you as long as I wish... capisci?

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 02:17 PM
Unnecessarily?

You're sending us to school!!

"You guys should to go to school first..."

C'mon... stop bragging, Cicero... You're one of the most ignorant people I've met in these fora.... and do you dare to sending other people back to school!!??

Go yourself fucking back to school fucking first, bragging cretin....

:lol: Why it took you so much time? You didn't find the words? Or you were simply assuming drugs?

Did i speak specifically to you when i was sending people to school? :picard1:

You quoted me asking if i attended Uni fucking moor.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 02:20 PM
:lol: why it took you so much time? You didn't find the words? Or you were simply assuming drugs?

Did i spoke to you specifically when i was sending people to school? :picard1:


Lunch time in this part of the Earth, cretin...

Do you believe that I would delay my lunch because of a retard like you?

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 02:22 PM
Lunch time in this part of the Earth, cretin...

Do you believe that I would delay my lunch because of a retard like you?

You have lauch at (16:00) 04:00pm? :lol:

Anyway i've no intention to continue this discussion with you either. Bye Afonso.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 02:22 PM
Lunch time in this part of the Earth, cretin...

Do you believe that I would delay my lunch because of a retard like you?


you wrote "you guys..."

You usually brag like that with everybody...

And when one digs a li'l bit in you, one discover you're a single bragging cretin and paleto...

That's the reason why you're always fleeing...

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 02:23 PM
You have lauch at 16:00pm? :lol:

Anyway i've no intention to continue this discussion with you either. Bye Afonso.


Nope, exactly it was at 15:20h when I've started having my lunch...

I have it usually tranquilly...

It's obvious you have no watch or you let still lead by the sun...

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 02:26 PM
My last comment prior to lunch, retard:


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218658-Could-a-mediterranean-alliance-be-a-solution-to-quot-MerkelReich-quot&p=4590322&viewfull=1#post4590322


Don't you have still noticed you're a cretin?


N.B.: Again fleeing like a rat through the sewer labirynth? Bye, Alfonso? :rotfl:

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 02:30 PM
Thread: Could a mediterranean alliance be a solution to "MerkelReich"?
Go back to school Alfonso. Stop assuming drugs...


And you, go back to the kindergarten, cretin!! :rotfl:

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 02:47 PM
Tell me Alfonso, what are you eating? I'm just curious.

Pizza i suppose, i know you like it :rolleyes:

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 03:04 PM
I'm not interested in discussions with guys like the self-proclaimed Parmigiano Minerva (also because I prefer Grana Padano); they're clearly minus habentes. But I just want to clarify some concepts: no one here denies the existence of Italy, given that is a geographical, historical, political and even ethno-cultural, in some ways, reality since the Roman era; North, Central Italy, South have for sure some legacy in common: proto-Italics, Ligurians, Etruscans, Roman colonies (even if in Gallia Transpadana weren't substantial), Goth and Longobardic dominions, and then cultural phenomena such as Umanesimo, Rinascimento, the spread of Italian language (basically the Tuscan variant of Florence) etc. etc. But if you people think that "Unità d'Italia" means the cultural, ethnic, territorial, linguistic, genetic destruction of North Italy - using the pretext of internal Southern immigration - well, you need a psychiatrist. For every "fascio-terronic" nationalist: Italy exists but isn't the mythological homogeneous granite rock of your wet dreams. Deal with it.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 03:04 PM
I'm not interested in discussions with guys like the self-proclaimed Parmigiano Minerva (also because I prefer Grana Padano); they're clearly minus habentes. But I just want to clarify some concepts: no one here denies the existence of Italy, given that is a geographical, historical, political and even ethno-cultural, in some ways, reality since the Roman era; North, Central Italy, South have for sure some legacy in common: proto-Italics, Ligurians, Etruscans, Roman colonies (even if in Gallia Transpadana weren't substantial), Goth and Longobardic dominions, and then cultural phenomena such as Umanesimo, Rinascimento, the spread of Italian language (basically the Tuscan variant of Florence) etc. etc. But if you people think that "Unità d'Italia" means the cultural, ethnic, territorial, linguistic, genetical destruction of North Italy - using the pretext of internal Southern immigration - well, you need a psychiatrist. For every "fascio-terronic" nationalist: Italy exists but isn't the mythological homogeneous granite rock of your wet dreams. Deal with it.

I missed you immigrant. Welcome back.

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 03:39 PM
I'm not interested in discussions with guys like the self-proclaimed Parmigiano Minerva (also because I prefer Grana Padano); they're clearly minus habentes. But I just want to clarify some concepts: no one here denies the existence of Italy, given that is a geographical, historical, political and even ethno-cultural, in some ways, reality since the Roman era; North, Central Italy, South have for sure some legacy in common: proto-Italics, Ligurians, Etruscans, Roman colonies (even if in Gallia Transpadana weren't substantial), Goth and Longobardic dominions, and then cultural phenomena such as Umanesimo, Rinascimento, the spread of Italian language (basically the Tuscan variant of Florence) etc. etc. But if you people think that "Unità d'Italia" means the cultural, ethnic, territorial, linguistic, genetic destruction of North Italy - using the pretext of internal Southern immigration - well, you need a psychiatrist. For every "fascio-terronic" nationalist: Italy exists but isn't the mythological homogeneous granite rock of your wet dreams. Deal with it.

Even if I am not an expert of history, my opinion about the Italian Unification is similar to yours, because the Italian identity is based on a common historical peculiarty (not generic neither cultural), as noted Umberto Eco. "We" were unified under the rule of the Romans and after the Fall of the Roman Empire we were dominated by different peoples and dinasties, we developed different languages and we merged with different populations. The Italian culture was a 19th-centurty "fake news" (similar to the "European Dream"), which was used by a part of the rulling class of a Kingdom, that wanted to conquest and colonise some undeveloped lands, such as the Southern Italy, which had been reunified for the first time by the Normans in the Middle Ages. However, today the Unification has happened, they have imposed a common language and a secession would be difficult and expensive for all people. I don't have nothing against the idea of dividing Italy in different ethnic regions (even if the criterium could be difficult to find), but the centralisation of services and administrations could make the public administration, with a smaller number of politicians and administrators, less expensive, more efficient and less influenced by particularistic interests, including those of Mafia. If you create federalistic Italy, you will allow a lot of local politicians to have the same income of the Sultan of Brunei (consider the benefits of the president of the province of South Tryrol). Another proble is the so-called fiscal competition, because the richest regions will be able to reduce the taxes in order to attract companies, which will abandon the poorest regions, causing more poverty, undevelopment, spread of organized crime, etc.

Sebastianus Rex
08-22-2017, 04:20 PM
Beyond the immigration rhetoric, I think that traditional parties will find solutions to the problem of unregulated immigration, because this phenomenon can cause the rise of “populist” parties and a dramtic increase in public expenditure. For examples, in Italy Interior Minister Minniti, who is a member of the pro-immigration Democratic Party, seems to have the intention of reducing the number of arrivals by adopting different strategies, like agreements with the Libian coast guard and the regulation of the activity of non-governmental organizations in the Strait of Sicily. However, the problem of immigration to Italy is more complex, because the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Emma Bonino, has recently declared that Italy became volutarily the destination of all the African emigrants rescued in the Strait of Sicilia by a secret agreement with the European Union. I do not know why they took this decision, but some people, like the philosopher Paolo Becchi, supposed (http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/opinioni/12436473/paolo-becchi-renzi-processato-patto--migranti.html) that Matteo Renzi accepted this agreement in exchange for more budget flexibility.


You are right: I think that imperialism is a cultural peculiarity of the Germans, and I hope that this situation will end and will be a lesson for Europe.

"Populist" is just a jargon used by the establishment and media to qualify anyone that comes outside from the political establishment. There are some rules and principles that all the system is based upon and when someone talks about breaking with them, they all say "that is impossible". Of course the system has the people by the balls and any real solution will be a painful one.



The impossibility of practicing competitive devaluation, the European agreements, which force the countries of first arrival to protect others' borders, the austerity imposed by Germany, a lack of economic competitiveness, etc. are common problems of the countries of Southern Europe (Cyprus, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, except Malta) and the idea of a "soft" mediterranean alliance was proposed by different "mainstream" politicians, such as Romano Prodi, who had to admit the imperialist role of Angela Merkel (that I consider the smartest politician of the world).

In my opinion you greatly overestimate Merkel and Germany influence, the true imperialists are those who control the politicians. Germany is their mass destruction weapon.


I don't care about genetics, but i never claimed we are all genetically the same (yet Italians from North, Central and South, are way much more related each other (also genetically) before with other ethnicities in Europe). In Europe, people are all genetically different, it's hard to find homogeneous countries (except maybe... microstates? :dunno:).

I'm not "Romagnolo" i'm Italian from Emilia-Romagna (Emilian-Romagnol if you want to use a regional term). Romagna and Emilia are historic cultural lands. (In any case i'm from Emilia)
Terrone is a derogatory term. I don't see why i should feel different than an Italian from the South. We are all Italian after all.

You guys should stop talking about genetics and go back to school first. Italy as whole is not much diverse than other countries in Europe.

No trolling, serious discussion. Look I am not Sikeliot with his pathetic agenda, I know well enough Italy to know that Italians are Italians from north to south (in the sense that they all share common Italic ties), altough I have some relatives from Lombardia and I know very well that they don't view southerners as exactly as being part of the same ethnic volk and vice versa. For me is unquestionable that most Italians are well aware of the (in some cases acentuated) regional differences, I could tell you dozens of stories to exemplify this sentiment that has been passed to me first hand while interacting with Italians, but it's redundanct since all Italians are well aware of this.

Anyway as pointed, that is something not uncommon in European nations. In the UK there's several officially recognized nationalities, in Spain also, in France many Bretons and almost all Corsicans a consider themselves as a people apart despite being integrated in the same political state, in Belgium is well known that Flemish and Waloons are two peoples apart...not to talk about eastern Europe / Russia. Even in a small and long consolidated nation like Portugal often northern people refer to southerners as Moors altough they say that as a joke and out of regional rivalry since there's no real internal independentisms in this country.

The question is, as Sizzo has been pointing, aren't the internal regional differences in Italy clear and historically strong enough to allow people to aspire to the recognition of their own ethnicity and the legitimacy to desire for a more regionalized concept of the state or even to create a new political entity in order to allow them to preserve their specific indentitarian traits and not let it be desctructed forever by amalgamation ? I believe they are and that all peoples have right to their identarianism and self-determination.


I missed you immigrant. Welcome back.

Why do you call Sizzo an immigrant ? It makes no sense to call him that because you disagree with him, since he seems to be clearly an identitarian...it's immigrants and people of multi-ethnic ancestry who often want to amalgamate and oppose identirarian movements.

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 04:31 PM
Italy has some linguistic minorities, even a Slavic population (see friuli) but other than that I think 95% of people in Italy would recognize Italian as their language

Not to mention that genetically all Italians are south Europeans

For sure there are differences among regions, but I think not enough to make south Italy being "morroco" and North Italy "Sweden"
Even south tyrolese are easily distinguishable from Austrians

Teatisfilius
08-22-2017, 04:36 PM
"Populist" is just a jargon used by the establishment and media to qualify anyone that comes outside from the political establishment. There are some rules and principles that all the system is based upon and when someone talks about breaking with them, they all say "that is impossible". Of course the system has the people by the balls and any real solution will be a painful one. In my opinion you greatly overestimate Merkel and Germany influence, the true imperialists are those who control the politicians. Germany is their mass destruction weapon.
Of course, I have the same opinion about the word "populism", which doesn't correspond to any specific academic definition, but it's only used as a "polite" and pseudo-intellectual insult by the mainstream media. It is the fruit of the expanding neologism of the westerm establishment, by which they influence the public opinion with the categories that they have created.
Unluckily I consider Angela Merkel the smartest politician of this world for the genius by which she transformed a normal country in a new economic and political super-power, when most multinationals have not reiceved from the European Union the same beneficials of the Germans, expept some lobbies and some multinationals set in Luxembourg. Politicians of some states (Usa, Germany, United Kingdom,...) could continue to have a lot power on the economic system, but they don't use it because they are corrupted by big companies, which can combine high-tech innovations with feudal privileges.

Mens-Sarda
08-22-2017, 04:41 PM
Italy has some linguistic minorities, even a Slavic population (see friuli) but other than that I think 95% of people in Italy would recognize Italian as their language

Not to mention that genetically all Italians are south Europeans

For sure there are differences among regions, but I think not enough to make south Italy being "morroco" and North Italy "Sweden"
Even south tyrolese are easily distinguishable from Austrians

And among these minorities Sardinians are the most numerous, with a total population of 1,7 millions, a Romance language that is not Italic, uses and traditions totally unrelated with Italy, not to mentions that in all genetic studies Sardinians are considered a people apart.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 04:44 PM
@Sebastianus: he calls me "immigrant" because is a poor child; I'm for sure more Italian than him. But, trust me: only Southerners have some sort of complex when we discuss about the ethno-cultural nature of Italy, unionism, federalism, ethnicism etc. They think it's racism or suprematism against them; not to mention when I say we are not the same people from the Alps to Sicily! How could Lombardians and Campanians be the same people since our genetic pool is still the same of the pre-Roman era? And I don't think that's a damnation, because this diversity - between European peoples of the same geographical, historical and cultural area - is richness, not a curse. You could respect Italy and its regional complexity without contradictions. Only a fanatic or an ignorant can get mad and foaming at the mouth, because it's the truth.

Alessio
08-22-2017, 04:49 PM
@Sebastianus: he call me "immigrant" because is a poor child; I'm for sure more Italian than him. But, trust me: only Southerners have some sort of complex when we discuss about the ethno-cultural nature of Italy, unionism, federalism, ethnicism etc. They think it's racism or suprematism against them; not to mention when I say we are not the same people from the Alps to Sicily! How could Lombardians and Campanians be the same people since our genetic pool is still the same of the pre-Roman era? And I don't think that's a damnation, because this diversity - between European peoples of the same geographical, historical and cultural area - is richness, not a curse. You could respect Italy and its regional complexity without contradictions. Only a fanatic or an ignorant can get mad and foaming at the mouth, because it's the truth.

I agree with that.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 04:51 PM
No trolling, serious discussion. Look I am not Sikeliot with his pathetic agenda, I know well enough Italy to know that Italians are Italians from north to south (in the sense that they all share common Italic ties), altough I have some relatives from Lombardia and I know very well that they don't view southerners as exactly as being part of the same ethnic volk and vice versa. For me is unquestionable that most Italians are well aware of the (in some cases acentuated) regional differences, I could tell you dozens of stories to exemplify this sentiment that has been passed to me first hand while interacting with Italians, but it's redundanct since all Italians are well aware of this.

People who like to appoint diversity North/South are everywhere (especially among young men) still not many as past years. Normally Italians who go in other countries like to show the bad side of Italy. In Italy we say that Italians living or travelling in other countries love to do autocriticism.


Anyway as pointed, that is something not uncommon in European nations. In the UK there's several officially recognized nationalities, in Spain also, in France many Bretons and almost all Corsicans a consider themselves as a people apart despite being integrated in the same political state, in Belgium is well known that Flemish and Waloons are two peoples apart...not to talk about eastern Europe / Russia. Even in a small and long consolidated nation like Portugal often northern people refer to southerners as Moors altough they say that as a joke and out of regional rivalry since there's no real internal independentisms in this country.

Those are extreme cases. Spain, UK have strong indipendentism movements. Belgium is basically an artificial country splitted in two parts. Russia is one of the countries with most diversity due to its size. In Italy the only strong one is the one in Alto Adige (if it's still active since it's been awhile i don't hear news) and this is understandable since there is a different ethnic group in Alto Adige (Germans) but the rest of Italy...


The question is, as Sizzo has been pointing, aren't the internal regional differences in Italy clear and historically strong enough to allow people to aspire to the recognition of their own ethnicity and the legitimacy to desire for a more regionalized concept of the state or even to create a new political entity in order to allow them to preserve their specific indentitarian traits and not let it be desctructed forever by amalgamation ? I believe they are and that all peoples have right to their identarianism and self-determination.

There is no historical reason that Italians could use as reason to split sorry. You're talking about a thing that probably will never happen. The only part of Italy that could split due to very different historical reasons is Alto Adige, yet i doubt it they will ever do that. Being part of Italy is too profitable for them.



Why do you call Sizzo an immigrant ? It makes no sense to call him that because you disagree with him, since he seems to be clearly an identitarian...it's immigrants and people of multi-ethnic ancestry who often want to amalgamate and oppose identirarian movements.

*Immigrant CLOWN

His ideas (if he's the guy who claim to be and not another identity stealer) are not shared even among North Italians (as myself) i know because i saw his videos and articles about him around the web. I've discussed that guy ideas many times in other Italian forums, a forum full of people from North Italy who are 10 times more nationalists than me and no one agree with those ideas.

http://www.bresciatoday.it/politica/movimento-nazionalista-lombardo-paolo-sizzi-video.html

:laugh:

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 04:57 PM
@Sebastianus: he call me "immigrant" because is a poor child; I'm for sure more Italian than him. But, trust me: only Southerners have some sort of complex when we discuss about the ethno-cultural nature of Italy, unionism, federalism, ethnicism etc. They think it's racism or suprematism against them; not to mention when I say we are not the same people from the Alps to Sicily! How could Lombardians and Campanians be the same people since our genetic pool is still the same of the pre-Roman era? And I don't think that's a damnation, because this diversity - between European peoples of the same geographical, historical and cultural area - is richness, not a curse. You could respect Italy and its regional complexity without contradictions. Only a fanatic or an ignorant can get mad and foaming at the mouth, because it's the truth.

Only an idiot think to be more Italian than another. This makes me think that you're really an immigrant who have difficulty to integrate in Italy. Your ideas of ethno secessionism find no agreement among both northerns and southerners. I'm not the only one around the web who think you're the usual web clown...:thumb001:

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:06 PM
^ This poor mongoloid (not racially speaking because is a terrone) needs to post an "article" taken from a random site of local news, and obvioulsy written by another buffoon like him. Furthermore it talks about facts of 2012, and we are in 2017. But everyone can see which one is an asshole here: I have no reasons to hide myself, since I'm a man (Sizzo is similar to my real surname and I show my face, as well) and this Minerva is just a coward wannabe North-Italian who know nothing of what is saying. A pathetic Internet warrior like his "northerner" friends, usually mixed people or full-blooded southerners.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:08 PM
Only an idiot think to be more Italian than another. This makes me think that you're really an immigrant who have difficulty to integrate in Italy. Your ideas of ethno secessionism find no agreement among both northerns and southerners. I'm not the only one around the web who think you're the usual web clown...:thumb001:

Web clown coming from an anonymous avatar is a compliment, actually.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:09 PM
^ This poor mongoloid (not racially speaking because is a terrone) needs to post an "article" taken from a random site of local news, and obvioulsy written by another buffoon like him. Furthermore it talks about facts of 2012, and we are in 2017. But everyone can see which one is an asshole here: I have no reasons to hide myself, since I'm a man (Sizzo is similar to my real surname and I show my face, as well) and this Minerva is just a coward wannabe North-Italian who know nothing of what is saying. A pathetic Internet warrior like his "northerner" friends, usually mixed people or full-blooded southerners.

Read the comments immigrant. If you're that guy (which i still doubt) those comments should make you reflect...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1Xyv42mVk

https://video.repubblica.it/edizione/milano/istigazione-all-odio-razziale-condannato-il-blogger/125879/124375?refresh_ce

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:11 PM
Btw I was more radical in the past, quite separatist; now I'm more inclined to accept a form of rational federalism (than, ethno-federalism). Identitarism, obvioulsy, never changes. Blood, Soil and Spirit are holy principles. I don't give a fuck about the opinions of dumbass as MinervaTeronica and his virtual friends.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:12 PM
Btw I was more radical in the past, quite separatist; now I'm more inclined to accept a form of rational federalism (than, ethno-federalism). Identitarism, obvioulsy, never changes. Blood, Soil and Spirit are holy principles. I don't give a fuck about the opinions of dumbass as MinervaTeronica and his virtual friends.

If makes you happy...
Still i think you need to find a new hobby.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:13 PM
Read the comments immigrant. If you're that guy (which i still doubt) those comments should make you reflect...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS1Xyv42mVk

https://video.repubblica.it/edizione/milano/istigazione-all-odio-razziale-condannato-il-blogger/125879/124375?refresh_ce

I commenti di chi, coglionazzo? Delle zeccacce o di mentecatti privi di raziocinio come te? Sei più stupido di quanto pensassi, poi ti stupisci perché pure gli Iberici ti danno del terrone. Miserabile gioppino.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:14 PM
Ad ogni modo, mentecatto, visto che sei così meschino da buttarla sullo strettamente personale sono proprio curioso di vedere la tua faccia di merda e il tuo nome reale. Ma scommetto che sei così pidocchio e coniglio da non volerlo fare. Terù

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:16 PM
I commenti di chi, coglionazzo? Delle zeccacce o di mentecatti privi di raziocinio come te? Sei più stupido di quanto pensassi, poi ti stupisci perché pure gli Iberici ti danno del terrone. Miserabile gioppino.

No mio immigrato non insultare, non ti si addice xD

Certi iberici in questo forum sono pagliacci quanto te. Insultano senza conoscere il significato delle parole e le attribuiscono alle persone sbagliate. Tipici codardi che si nascondono dietro il computer.


Ad ogni modo, mentecatto, visto che sei così meschino da buttarla sullo strettamente personale sono proprio curioso di vedere la tua faccia di merda e il tuo nome reale. Ma scommetto che sei così pidocchio e coniglio da non volerlo fare. Terù

Non sei degno di vedere la mia faccia. Mi spiace.

E poi io non posto la mia foto sul web specialmente in siti come questo pieno di ladri di avatar...

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
08-22-2017, 05:19 PM
You guys shouldn't fight. Nationalists should find a common ground and share ideas, it can be positive. We are still the minority after all. Otherwise we will be no different from the disunited Left, with all their divise ideas and an entire multitude of different political parties\organizations be it Marxist, Leninist, Trotskyst, Maoist, etc.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:20 PM
You guys shouldn't fight. Nationalists should find a common ground and share ideas, it can be positive. We are still the minority after all. Otherwise we will be no different from the disunited Left, with all their divise ideas and an entire multitude of different political parties\organizations be it Marxist, Leninist, Trotskyst, Maoist, etc.

He's not a nationalist. A guy who support ethno-federalism is not nationalist...
And besides, he already proved to not be nationalist through his comments...

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:24 PM
No mio immigrato non insultare, non ti si addice xD

Gli iberici in questo forum sono pagliacci quanto te. Insultano senza conoscere il significato delle parole e le attribuiscono alle persone sbagliate. Tipici codardi che si nascondono dietro il computer.



Non sei degno di vedere la mia faccia. Mi spiace.

E poi io non posto la mia foto sul web specialmente in siti come questo pieno di ladri di avatar...


Ok. I translate for the other users: this MinervaTeronica is an Internet warrior, and then a real pariah, who tries to defame people with guts, real face and real name with pettiness and ridicolous accusations. A sub-human, then, like every "keyboard lions". Show your face and your name and then, maybe, you will worthy to kiss my ass.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:27 PM
You live in your sad world Sizzo find another hobby trust me. :D
Ideas that no one care nowadays in Italy if not only people without life like you.

Focus more on this immigration and multiculturalism.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 05:32 PM
You guys shouldn't fight. Nationalists should find a common ground and share ideas, it can be positive. We are still the minority after all. Otherwise we will be no different from the disunited Left, with all their divise ideas and an entire multitude of different political parties\organizations be it Marxist, Leninist, Trotskyst, Maoist, etc.

I'm for ethnic nationalism, not for artificial italianism. The peoples first, then the state. Italian republic is a fucking colony of Nato, Usa, Eu that is killing North, Center and South. A trivial "nationalism" based on XIXth century rhetoric is only an ally of the globalist system.

Cristiano viejo
08-22-2017, 05:46 PM
Btw I was more radical in the past, quite separatist; now I'm more inclined to accept a form of rational federalism (than, ethno-federalism). Identitarism, obvioulsy, never changes. Blood, Soil and Spirit are holy principles. I don't give a fuck about the opinions of dumbass as MinervaTeronica and his virtual friends.
MinervaTeronica hahahahaha :lmao

I prefer MENArvaItalica, but man, I am in, I am down ;)


European Union is only 2 states: Germany and France. The historical concept of Europe has nothing to do with that plutocratic rabble. But I don't think that would be a great idea another sort of sub-European union because Mediterranean (or Southern) Europe isn't a homogeneous concept, in economic terms also: think about the so-called "4 motors for Europe", 3 of them are in South Europe, Lombardy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Catalonia. Well, these 3 regions are, more exactly, in SW Europe.
Another myth extended by the Catalan separatists :rolleyes:
Catalonia is not even the stronger Spanish region. Madrid, Navarra, Vascongadas and Balearic Islands overcome it.


Si vede che non sei del Nord, visto che per spregio spesso e volentieri diciamo "teroni" e non "terroni". Ti lascio continuare da solo adesso, tranquillo.

I bet he is Sicilianu or something so.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:50 PM
I bet he is Sicilianu or something so.

And you must be Canarian :rolleyes:

You're the typical user who side with a person when it's convenient but immediately change side later... coward behaviour i say.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 05:50 PM
Tell me Alfonso, what are you eating? I'm just curious.

Pizza i suppose, i know you like it :rolleyes:


Pizza? I deteste pizza, bleeder.

Anyways, the correct way to ask that question had been_ "what have you eaten?", since I had lunch around 3pm, my li'l bragging ignorant.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:51 PM
Pizza? I deteste pizza, bleeder.

Anyways, the correct way to ask that question had been_ "what have you eaten?", since I had lunch around 3pm, my li'l bragging ignorant.

Afonso, Afonso... you can't fool me.
I know you like it. :rolleyes:

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 05:55 PM
Well guys i'm the one who must go to eat now. Cya later.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 06:08 PM
Afonso, Afonso... you can't fool me.
I know you like it. :rolleyes:


Nope. I don't like pizza. On the real, I dislike it.

You don't know so much as you believe to... :no:

Have you realised yet? You're simply and categorically a bragging ignorant...

Do you still consider the pizza a cause of personal or national pride perhaps or what?

That childish are you really?

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 06:09 PM
Well guys i'm the one who must go to eat now. Cya later.


Still better, cya never.

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 06:12 PM
Barbaro, and italica, both relax, eating a Greek stifado
http://www.tastycooking.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/mosxari-stifado-syntagi-2.jpg

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 06:14 PM
And sending people to school. Precisely him. What a buffoon.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 06:15 PM
Barbaro, and italica, both relax, eating a Greek stifado
http://www.tastycooking.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/mosxari-stifado-syntagi-2.jpg


Quite similar to spanish "estofado". Those are usually the kind of meals I usually eat... and not pizza! For God's sake...:picard1:

No problem with Minerva. The more he talks the more it is evident he's an ignorant... in spite of such a façade he likes showing off...

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 06:22 PM
Quite similar to spanish "estofado". Those are usually the kind of meals I usually eat... and not pizza! For God's sake...:picard1:

No problem with Minerva. The more he talks the more it is evident he's an ignorant... in spite of such a façade he likes showing off...

:eek:

I just finished my dish, and I didn't know there was such an etymology abroad, thanks for posting

Well, the majority of Greek dishes are like this, especially during the winter

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 06:31 PM
:eek:

I just finished my dish, and I didn't know there was such an etymology abroad, thanks for posting

Well, the majority of Greek dishes are like this, especially during the winter

Here is called stüàt (stufato, in Italian), usually made with beef, peas, onions and obviously polenta.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 06:34 PM
Pizza is for boys, cassoeula (Milanese dish) for men:

http://i.imgur.com/DFSMWIB.jpg

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 06:55 PM
Here is called stüàt (stufato, in Italian), usually made with beef, peas, onions and obviously polenta.

Really??

Beef, onion and tomato sauce (but no polenta) are the main ingredients here

I should not have eaten Stifado tonight :D

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 07:04 PM
Really??

Beef, onion and tomato sauce (but no polenta) are the main ingredients here

I should not have eaten Stifado tonight :D

Yeah. Tomato sauce is too mediterranean for Lombardy; we usually eat meat with polenta and - till the "terronization" of North Italy - always butter and lard instead of olive oil (even if around pre-alpine lakes such as Como, Iseo and Garda, Romans introduced olive trees). Moreover in Lombardian Golaseccan culture (proto-celtic) was found the most ancient presence of beer in Europe (Pombia, Novara).

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 07:08 PM
Don't tell me you eat stufato even with these temperatures...
Stufato is usually a winter dish.

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 07:11 PM
Yeah. Tomato sauce is too mediterranean for Lombardy; we usually eat meat with polenta and - till the "terronization" of North Italy - always butter and lard instead of olive oil (even if around pre-alpine lakes such as Como, Iseo and Garda, Romans introduced olive trees). Moreover in Lombardian Golaseccan culture (proto-celtic) was found the most ancient presence of beer in Europe (Pombia, Novara).

Lol this "pandania-like" things here is common in inland parts of Greece, meanwhile coastal mainland and the islands are more "terronized"

BTW what part of Italy is pecorino from?

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 07:14 PM
Don't tell me you eat stufato even with these temperatures...
Stufato is usually a winter dish.

Two months ago I ate in an Indian restaurant, dishes full of chili, stifado is a game for me :D

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 07:15 PM
Two months ago I ate in an Indian restaurant, dishes full of chili, stifado is a joke for me :D

People must have a strong stomach to eat such a heavy dish with 40°C we had these past days.

I don't know about Greece.

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 07:20 PM
People must have a strong stomach to eat such a heavy dish with 40°C we had these past days.

I don't know about Greece.

To be honest same is here

But as an individual, I am personally kinda a "stomach freak"

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 07:22 PM
Really??

Beef, onion and tomato sauce (but no polenta) are the main ingredients here

I should not have eaten Stifado tonight :D

Yeah, better in the lunch

Cristiano viejo
08-22-2017, 07:23 PM
And you must be Canarian :rolleyes:

You're the typical user who side with a person when it's convenient but immediately change side later... coward behaviour i say.

I dont defend Canarians and I dont give a fuck about them, you defend Sicilianus and care them as fuck.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 07:26 PM
Pizza is for boys, cassoeula (Milanese dish) for men:

http://i.imgur.com/DFSMWIB.jpg


hahahaha

quite similar to our "cazuela" by the way, if not the same dish

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 07:26 PM
I dont defend Canarians and I dont give a fuck about them, you defend Sicilianus and care them as fuck.

Because i'm nationalist just in case you didn't notice it and as such i defend all Italians not only Sicilians.

Your statement defending Sicilians = being Sicilian is ridiculous.

I defend them when people throw shit on them with stupid claims since Sicilians are Italians.

However i also make critics about the South sometimes...

No huh? You're not a truly nationalist then if you defend only your region...

Cristiano viejo
08-22-2017, 07:29 PM
Btw I was more radical in the past, quite separatist; now I'm more inclined to accept a form of rational federalism (than, ethno-federalism). Identitarism, obvioulsy, never changes. Blood, Soil and Spirit are holy principles. I don't give a fuck about the opinions of dumbass as MinervaTeronica and his virtual friends.


And among these minorities Sardinians are the most numerous, with a total population of 1,7 millions, a Romance language that is not Italic, uses and traditions totally unrelated with Italy, not to mentions that in all genetic studies Sardinians are considered a people apart.


European Union is only 2 states: Germany and France. The historical concept of Europe has nothing to do with that plutocratic rabble. But I don't think that would be a great idea another sort of sub-European union because Mediterranean (or Southern) Europe isn't a homogeneous concept, in economic terms also: think about the so-called "4 motors for Europe", 3 of them are in South Europe, Lombardy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Catalonia. Well, these 3 regions are, more exactly, in SW Europe.


Because i'm nationalist just in case you didn't notice it and as such i defend all Italians not only Sicilians.

Your statement defending Sicilians = being Sicilian is ridiculous.

No huh? You're not a truly nationalist then if you defend only your region...

I dont defend only my region, for example I usually defend Andalusians here in Apricity (despite I hate their terrible accent) but I dont see Canarians as part of my ethnicity.

You care a lot about Sicilians and as Sizzo posted, you can not be North Italian when you even dont know how terone is writen in North Italian.

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 07:29 PM
Those dishes and their respective denominations have make me think about we're always in here struggling about finding differences amongst us, but not the similarities which join us... curious, curious...

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 07:31 PM
I dont defend only my region, for example I usually defend Andalusians here in Apricity (despite I hate their terrible accent) but I dont see Canarians as part of my ethnicity.

You care a lot about Sicilians and as Sizzo posted, you can not be North Italian when you even dont know how terone is writen in North Italian.

"Terrone" is written with double "r" in Italian language (the language i speak), he probably doesn't know it.

But you seems really obsessed with that word for someone who's not Italian...

EL_BARBARO
08-22-2017, 07:32 PM
I dont defend only my region, for example I usually defend Andalusians here in Apricity (despite I hate their terrible accent) but I dont see Canarians as part of my ethnicity.

You care a lot about Sicilians and as Sizzo posted, you can not be North Italian when you even dont know how terone is writen in North Italian.


Our accent is the most evolved accent of the peninsular spanish, I'm sorry...

You --old castilians-- can only understand amongst yourselves; we can understand anyone speaking in any sort of spanish, either peninsular, or american or asian or pacific or african spanish accent... :)

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 07:35 PM
Those dishes and their respective denominations have make me think about we're always in here struggling about finding differences amongst us, but not the similarities which join us... curious, curious...

I think 90% of the dishes I have seen in Italian or Spanish cuisine are common in Greece, usually with different name, but often even with the same name

And the most important, this cuisine is the real Greek proper, not some fake for tourists

So yes, in spite of difference, we should focus on the even more similarities

Cristiano viejo
08-22-2017, 07:42 PM
"Terrone" is written with double "r" in Italian language (the language i speak), he probably doesn't know it.

But you seems really obsessed with that word for someone who's not Italian...
How is possible that he does not know how the word is writen? that is impossible and according him it is teroni in his language.


Our accent is the most evolved accent of the peninsular spanish, I'm sorry...

You --old castilians-- can only understand amongst yourselves; we can understand anyone speaking in any sort of spanish, either peninsular, or american or asian or pacific or african spanish accent... :)

That is true but it is an annoying accent still.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 07:47 PM
How is possible that he does not know how the word is writen? that is impossible and according him it is teroni in his language.

He probably used the term in his dialect i don't know, i speak Italian. I leave dialects to old people who play Briscola at the bar.

terún / terù / teron / tarùn / tarù (in Lombard language)

In Emilian-Romagnol is teròch / tarón

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 07:57 PM
Lol this "pandania-like" things here is common in inland parts of Greece, meanwhile coastal mainland and the islands are more "terronized"

BTW what part of Italy is pecorino from?

Central-Southern Italy (or Sardinia).

Mens-Sarda
08-22-2017, 07:59 PM
He probably used the term in his dialect i don't know, i speak Italian. I leave dialects to old people who play Briscola at the bar.

terún / terù / teron / tarùn / tarù (in Lombard language)

In Emilian-Romagnol is teròch / tarón


What you call dialects are a cultural richness, preserving and speaking them is better than the cultural flattening and ignorance brought by an imposed foreign language; and by the way, thanks to the knowledge of my Sardinian language that I bet you still call dialect, I can also give you the etymology of your Emilian-Romagnol "teròch" which sounds very similar to the Sardinian "teràccu" = servant; from Greek "Therapon" (θεραπων) = servant; probably a loanword acquired during the Byzantine age.

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 08:00 PM
What you call dialects are a cultural richness, preserving and speaking them is better than the cultural flattening and ignorance brought by an imposed foreign language; and by the way, thanks to the knowledge of my Sardinian language that I bet you still call dialect, I can also give you the etymology of your Emilian-Romagnol "teròch" which sounds very similar to the Sardinian "teràccu" = servant; from Greek "Therapon" (θεραπων) = servant; probably a loanword acquired during the Byzantine age.

Please not now...
Not your Catechism again...
I know it's cultural richness (and should remain nothing more than such) but there are people who don't even know Italian nowadays... and dialects or regional languages won't help you that much finding a job. Italian alone is not even enough compared to work languages such as French, German or English.

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 08:04 PM
@Cristiano In Italian is "terrone", in regional Italian (of North Italy) is pronounced "terone", that has a more comical inclination. In Bergamask dialect (Eastern Lombardian, Gallo-Italic branch) is "terù" (in Milanese is pronounced "terùn"). Italy is full of these funny labels, even from city to city; here in Bergamo, for example, we call "pigs" our Brixian cousins but only for football stuff (Atalanta vs. Brescia). Minerva is the usual victimist, more common in the South.

brennus dux gallorum
08-22-2017, 08:05 PM
BTW in my opinion, at least a huge part of "pandanian" identity is central European, without that making less or more Italian than the rest of the country

Sizzo
08-22-2017, 08:07 PM
BTW in my opinion, at least a huge part of "pandanian" identity is central European, without that making less or more Italian than the rest of the country

We are not Mitteleuropean, of course, but nevertheless not full Mediterranean also. We are in between Central Europe and Mediterranean world, the real Peninsula then (Central-South Italy).

Mens-Sarda
08-22-2017, 08:08 PM
Please not now...
Not your Catechism again...

You are surrounded! :laugh: :laugh:

BTW knowing only Italian and not a single word of your dialect for me sounds like an utterly ignorant thing, you seem still to live in the old myth "one nation, one language"; there is no such thing in the Italian peninsula, at least is "one nation, many languages"

MinervaItalica
08-22-2017, 08:13 PM
You are surrounded! :laugh: :laugh:

BTW knowing only Italian and not a single word of your dialect for me sounds like an utterly ignorant thing, you seem still to live in the old myth "one nation, one language"; there is no such thing in the Italian peninsula, at least is "one nation, many languages"

Well i know some words in Parmigiano and Piacentino dialects but in my family are mostly spoken when are together at the phone. The words i know is because years listening them not surely because i've learned them at school. In my area no one teach you Parmigiano dialect or Emilian-Romagnol language and thus i grew up with Italian only. Another sign that those languages/dialects are dying in bigger cities and are surviving only in small settlements.

EL_BARBARO
08-23-2017, 06:44 AM
How is possible that he does not know how the word is writen? that is impossible and according him it is teroni in his language.



That is true but it is an annoying accent still.


There is not only one andalucian accent but dozens

And yes, I recognise certain andalusian accents are annoying to hear, even to me

E.g. Some days ago I ran into a gal. Imagine a very pretty gal, being 25, tall, long black hair, pretty factions, very pale face, blue eyes, talking in a remote almerian accent... uf

Sizzo
08-23-2017, 02:15 PM
hahahaha

quite similar to our "cazuela" by the way, if not the same dish

The same, but according to a folk legend:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassoeula

I don't know in your cazuela but in the Lombardian version there are some ingredients such as Savoy cabbage (cavolo-verza) and different parts of pork meat (pigskin, pig's feet, head, ribs and "verzini" or typical Lombardian sausages). It resembles other European dishes like French potée, Sauerkraut and Alsatian Choucroute and your cazuela as well. Cassoeula is usually accompanied with the legendary polenta, basic element of our culinary cult.
Frankly, when I see a pizzeria in Lombardy I'm quite disappointed (pizza, as you know, is Neapolitan) but, naturally, the worst thing is the spread of rubbish like kebab, sushi, exotic food, junk food, globalized street food and so on.

Cristiano viejo
08-23-2017, 02:47 PM
The same, but according to a folk legend:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassoeula

Another account traces the origins of the dish to the 16th century when Spain ruled Milan; it tells how a Spanish army officer taught the recipe to his lover, who cooked for a noble Milanese family, and the dish was well received and became popular.

Mens-Sarda
08-23-2017, 02:57 PM
I think that the name comes directly from the kind of pot used to cook these foods :

Casseruola (Italian)
Cassoeula (Lombard)
Casciòla or Cassòla (Sardinian)
Cazuela (Spanish)

This kind of cooking in called in Italian "cuocere in umido" or "stufare", while in Sardinian takes the name directly from the pot : "còghere a casciòla" ("to cook with casciòla"; and usually it's about meat cooking)

Sizzo
08-23-2017, 04:16 PM
Another account traces the origins of the dish to the 16th century when Spain ruled Milan; it tells how a Spanish army officer taught the recipe to his lover, who cooked for a noble Milanese family, and the dish was well received and became popular.

That legend seems historically related to this guy:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestre_Robert

Maybe the basis of these dishes are the same in all SW Europe, but the Lombardian one reflects also the consumption of traditional dishes made with pork meat, lard soup and Savoy cabbage, deep-rooted since the Middle Ages. For example the spread of lard soup in Italy seems related to the Longobardic dominion (from Milan to Benevento). However, while pigs seem more "Celtic", cattle are more "Germanic". At least in Northern Italy (Po Valley is a great land for dairy industry).

Mens-Sarda
08-23-2017, 07:22 PM
That legend seems historically related to this guy:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestre_Robert

Maybe the basis of these dishes are the same in all SW Europe, but the Lombardian one reflects also the consumption of traditional dishes made with pork meat, lard soup and Savoy cabbage, deep-rooted since the Middle Ages. For example the spread of lard soup in Italy seems related to the Longobardic dominion (from Milan to Benevento). However, while pigs seem more "Celtic", cattle are more "Germanic". At least in Northern Italy (Po Valley is a great land for dairy industry).

Pigs farming is not necessarily Celtic or Germanic, in Sardinia it's known since remote age; roast pig is one of the most typical Sardinian specialties, along with other things like fava beans with lard, or polenta with pork sausages; think that until 50 years ago in the inner areas of Sardinia molten lard was used for cooking instead of olive oil, because olive oil was expensive and the prodution was little, moreover butter was totally unknown, since the cows farming in Sardinia is really minimal, overwhelmed by sheeps and goats farming.

Sizzo
08-23-2017, 10:29 PM
Pigs farming is not necessarily Celtic or Germanic, in Sardinia it's known since remote age; roast pig is one of the most typical Sardinian specialties, along with other things like fava beans with lard, or polenta with pork sausages; think that until 50 years ago in the inner areas of Sardinia molten lard was used for cooking instead of olive oil, because olive oil was expensive and the prodution was little, moreover butter was totally unknown, since the cows farming in Sardinia is really minimal, overwhelmed by sheeps and goats farming.

I was talking about pigs in ancient Northern Italy, then Cisalpine Gaul; the Celtic cold cuts were renowned among the Romans (even if, maybe, prosciutto has an Etruscan imprint). For sure, were not the Celts who introduced pigs for the first time. Cattle in North Italy, instead, (for dairy aims) follow the ancient division Langobardia-Romagna (in the latter there were pigs and sheep but not dairy products made with cow milk). The fromentino cattle of Po Valley was likely introduced by the Longobards.

Sebastianus Rex
08-24-2017, 05:03 PM
Barbaro, and italica, both relax, eating a Greek stifado
http://www.tastycooking.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/mosxari-stifado-syntagi-2.jpg


Quite similar to spanish "estofado". Those are usually the kind of meals I usually eat... and not pizza! For God's sake...:picard1:

No problem with Minerva. The more he talks the more it is evident he's an ignorant... in spite of such a façade he likes showing off...


Here is called stüàt (stufato, in Italian), usually made with beef, peas, onions and obviously polenta.

Similar to portuguese "estufado". There are some variants but here usually goes with carrots, peas and potatoes, and the sauce with red wine. I wonder about the origin of the word, probably the remote origin is greek, since a similar word exists there.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/26/46/80/26468033efb5fc66c2d1690e61ad9329.jpg




Pizza is for boys, cassoeula (Milanese dish) for men:

http://i.imgur.com/DFSMWIB.jpg


hahahaha

quite similar to our "cazuela" by the way, if not the same dish

Many similar traditional dishes here also, like cozido or chispalhada, we just add various types of chorizos and meats (but mostly pork) and beans (depending on the region).

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NvQVAE854s8/UlGdJzz1TqI/AAAAAAAAA4I/li15F5FkaKQ/s1600/IMG_8042.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_InaI7zM-NhE/S5v7JnN6L1I/AAAAAAAABI4/qcSG-Q0ZETw/s400/lol.JPG


That legend seems historically related to this guy:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestre_Robert

Maybe the basis of these dishes are the same in all SW Europe, but the Lombardian one reflects also the consumption of traditional dishes made with pork meat, lard soup and Savoy cabbage, deep-rooted since the Middle Ages. For example the spread of lard soup in Italy seems related to the Longobardic dominion (from Milan to Benevento). However, while pigs seem more "Celtic", cattle are more "Germanic". At least in Northern Italy (Po Valley is a great land for dairy industry).

"Savoy cabbage", don't you call it "cavolo lombardo" ? Interestingly in Portugal that cabbage is called "couve-lombarda".

Sebastianus Rex
08-24-2017, 05:13 PM
Any similar dish to this one in Spain, Italy and Greece? Fresh sausages rolled in (savoy) cabbage ?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5Xviav_6lkE/Vl-YKFOG5QI/AAAAAAAASOQ/kqyEMj6hce0/s1600/salsichas_frescas_enroladas_em_couve_lombarda.jpg

Sizzo
08-24-2017, 05:13 PM
^ About "stufato": etymology seems Greek, yes, from typhos, "steam, hot fumes"; obviously, in Romance languages, is derived from Latin ex-tufare, "to heat".
Savoy cabbage is the English name, here is called Milanese/Lombardian cabbage, yes.

Sizzo
08-24-2017, 05:20 PM
Any similar dish to this one in Spain, Italy and Greece? Fresh sausages rolled in (savoy) cabbage ?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5Xviav_6lkE/Vl-YKFOG5QI/AAAAAAAASOQ/kqyEMj6hce0/s1600/salsichas_frescas_enroladas_em_couve_lombarda.jpg

Yes, sometimes the "verzini" (little sausages, or "salamelle") are put into cassoeula rolled in that cavolo verza. Here we call, also, "luganega" a sort of sausage, probably related to the ancient Lucanians, Italic people from modern Basilicata.

brennus dux gallorum
08-24-2017, 05:29 PM
Any similar dish to this one in Spain, Italy and Greece? Fresh sausages rolled in (savoy) cabbage ?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5Xviav_6lkE/Vl-YKFOG5QI/AAAAAAAASOQ/kqyEMj6hce0/s1600/salsichas_frescas_enroladas_em_couve_lombarda.jpg

Yes, but without tomato sauce, and the decor with carrots

http://caruso.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/150305_laxanodolmades_0194.jpg

I know this pic has carrots as decor too, but we usually don't add carrots in the particular dish

brennus dux gallorum
08-24-2017, 09:30 PM
http://cookoo.ourwork.gr/photos/large/pasxalino_arnaki_sto_fourno.jpg
roast lamb, is there anything similar in Iberia/italy?

Sebastianus Rex
08-24-2017, 09:42 PM
http://cookoo.ourwork.gr/photos/large/pasxalino_arnaki_sto_fourno.jpg
roast lamb, is there anything similar in Iberia/italy?

Yes, it is highly appreciated both the lamb and the small goat (in english "kid") but the lamb/goat have to be very small and marinated for long hours or else that typical grease flavour might ruin it it. We usually put rosemary at the end of the cooking. It's tradition to eat it during the Easter period.

In Portugal we have many variants (Padeiro, Lafões, Beirã etc.), in Spain they do it particularly well at the Assador restaurants, especially the Paletilla de cordero lechal (the hand/front leg of the small lamb). I've also eat it in Argentina, they slowly roast it open, it's called "Chivito" and is excellent.

Wow, this thread is turning into a gastronomic encounter. :cool:

brennus dux gallorum
08-24-2017, 09:50 PM
Wow, this thread is turning into a gastronomic encounter. :cool:

Welcome to Southern Europe, if it was a central/northern European thread, it would turn to a banking encounter, or to a warlike encounter as an Eastern Euro thread;)

Mens-Sarda
08-24-2017, 10:23 PM
http://cookoo.ourwork.gr/photos/large/pasxalino_arnaki_sto_fourno.jpg
roast lamb, is there anything similar in Iberia/italy?



Roast lamb is the most typical Sardinian specialty, along roast pork, roast lamb is the main dish during Christmas and Easter lunches and dinners


Below, lamb, pork and "sa corda" cooking on the embers. Sa Corda (the rope) is a braid made with lamb intestines filled with lamb meat, the name comes from Latin "Chorda" (intestine, tripe)

http://www.passaggioabardia.it/images/sapori/021.jpg

Teatisfilius
08-25-2017, 12:19 PM
Welcome to Southern Europe, if it was a central/northern European thread, it would turn to a banking encounter, or to a warlike encounter as an Eastern Euro thread;)

Yes, it is why we will be colonised, thanks to the social darwinist principle of survival of the fittest. Our attention absorbed by frivolous matters, while Germans with its allies are working for their European domination, Chinese people are expanding their economy, etc. I have a lot of inferiority complexes, among which one is caused by the idea of belonging to a inferior people which is accepting its moral genocide. Unluckily Angela Merkel, a former professor of an hard science, is the smartest politician in the world and wants to bring all the Europe under “Aryan” domination. When we will see the horrible consequences of her, the upper class of our countries (e.g., Mario Monti, Loukas Papadīmos, Giorgio Napolitano), who supported her project, will escape abroad with their families. The loosers can be killed or only humiliated, but it is how the world works: the survival of the fittest.

God save the Queen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel), may she live forever…


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmNfQQ6paYg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkxBoGYu1-w

brennus dux gallorum
08-25-2017, 12:32 PM
Yes, it is why we will be colonised, thanks to the social darwinist principle of survival of the fittest. Our attention absorbed by frivolous matters, while Germans with its allies are working for their European domination, Chinese people are expanding their economy, etc. I have a lot of inferiority complexes, among which one is caused by the idea of belonging to a inferior people which is accepting its moral genocide. Unluckily Angela Merkel, a former professor of an hard science, is the smartest politician in the world and wants to bring all the Europe under “Aryan” domination. When we will see the horrible consequences of her, the upper class of our countries (e.g., Mario Monti, Loukas Papadīmos, Giorgio Napolitano), who supported her project, will escape abroad with their families. The loosers can be killed or only humiliated, but it is how the world works: the survival of the fittest.

God save the Queen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel), may she live forever…


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmNfQQ6paYg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkxBoGYu1-w

I will disagree with that "inferiority complex". Southern Europe survived through that mentally healthy way of thinking and behavior, under difficult circumstances.

The fact that media implicitly present the modern northern way of thinking as superior, doesn't mean that it really is, as a psychologist I would tell you that they have existential problems

But yes, in the rest you are right, we have to fight against an "Nordic domination"

Teatisfilius
08-25-2017, 01:13 PM
I will disagree with that "inferiority complex". Southern Europe survived through that mentally healthy way of thinking and behavior, under difficult circumstances.

The fact that media implicitly present the modern northern way of thinking as superior, doesn't mean that it really is, as a psychologist I would tell you that they have existential problems

But yes, in the rest you are right, we have to fight against an "Nordic domination"

Yes, I have a lot of existential problems and I am consious of it, but this is not the matter of our discussion. I do not want to be offensive, because my post was a simple provocation, but I think that sometimes a moderate inferiority complex can be useful to react, also from a political point of view. I think that the traditional southern way of thinking, which appears optimistic and carefree, is based on an hidden and sage pessimism, while the germanic and american way of thinking is based on an optimistic and dogmatic exaltation of work. However I repeat: we must not believe in phrases like "mentality who work to live and don't live to work", because it is a stereotype created by Nordic and Germanic politicians in order to influence their public opinion, when Greeks are really more hard-working than Germans (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/11-countries-with-the-longest-working-hours_n_1543145.html?slideshow=true#gallery/228557/7), as noted Noam Chomsky in a recent Italian documentary.

Sebastianus Rex
08-25-2017, 01:42 PM
Nordic domination ?! really think so when their countries are being colonised with immigrants from the third world ? To whom this globalisation strategy serves ? Surely not the native peoples, they are being demographically replaced and their economies losing weight on a worldwide scale.

Teatisfilius
08-25-2017, 02:57 PM
Nordic domination ?! really think so when their countries are being colonised with immigrants from the third world ? To whom this globalisation strategy serves ? Surely not the native peoples, they are being demographically replaced and their economies losing weight on a worldwide scale.
In English the word “colonization” has two meanings, because it can indicate the occupation of land by new settlers or the subdual of a people, like the Greeks, under a foreign domination. Even if immigrants are a big problem in the Western world, I do not think that they will take the power in our contries, especially in the wealth and well-organised Northern Europe, and that the real attack to our democracies is rapressented by the raise of the unelected European institutions. Do you think our politicians would accept all this immigrants, if they were able to take the power? Our politicians want only to increase the number of desperate workers in order to diminish our incomes and become more productive in the competitive capitalistic European market. In Italy the reasons of this unregulated immigration are more complicated, because the Italian government was blackmailed by other European countries: I have already discussed this matter.

Beyond the immigration rhetoric, I think that traditional parties will find solutions to the problem of unregulated immigration, because this phenomenon can cause the rise of “populist” parties and a dramtic increase in public expenditure. For examples, in Italy Interior Minister Minniti, who is a member of the pro-immigration Democratic Party, seems to have the intention of reducing the number of arrivals by adopting different strategies, like agreements with the Libian coast guard and the regulation of the activity of non-governmental organizations in the Strait of Sicily. However, the problem of immigration to Italy is more complex, because the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Emma Bonino, has recently declared that Italy became volutarily the destination of all the African emigrants rescued in the Strait of Sicilia by a secret agreement with the European Union. I do not know why they took this decision, but some people, like the philosopher Paolo Becchi, supposed (http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/opinioni/12436473/paolo-becchi-renzi-processato-patto--migranti.html) that Matteo Renzi accepted this agreement in exchange for more budget flexibility.

Messier 67
08-25-2017, 03:51 PM
They would need to learn how to properly create money, not from privately owned central banks who create money from debt:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-KHt9vi5k

They would need to be careful because the top leaders in the world are controlled through blackmail: illicit money, access to school age people, and even much more evil actions:

https://youtu.be/nEpcY5JU120?t=24m2s

brennus dux gallorum
08-25-2017, 04:39 PM
Nordic domination ?! really think so when their countries are being colonised with immigrants from the third world ? To whom this globalisation strategy serves ? Surely not the native peoples, they are being demographically replaced and their economies losing weight on a worldwide scale.

Yes but we should have in mind that their economies can't work without third world immigrants

Who is gonna play the role of working class in Netherlands or Germany? Natives? No way..

Odin
06-11-2018, 06:21 AM
https://i.imgur.com/TVffBim.jpg

Sebastianus Rex
06-11-2018, 04:00 PM
https://i.imgur.com/TVffBim.jpg

In reality, the Euro zone crisis was fabricated by Goldman Sachs and their rating agencies under the complacency of the EU Paris-Berlin axis, some of those countries prior to 2008 had public debt levels lower or similar than the USA, France or Germany but because of an unprecendent economic terrorism attack following the Greek and subprime crisis, by the devaluation of their "rating" they became forced to pay huge interest rates to finance their economy (soething that all countries are required to do) and in a matter of months largely indebted with the peoples paying outrageous interest rates to the real fat pigs (wich are unknown and simply called as "creditors or investors" who lend money to Merkel's on a 0% interest rate, so then she can act as their loan shark).

https://www.bullionvault.com/gold-news/files/09212011_Debt_GDP.png

https://www.robert-schuman.eu/images/questions/qe-289-1-uk.jpg

http://gainspainscapital.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/eu.jpg

Leo Iscariot
06-11-2018, 08:58 PM
http://vgsitaliansig.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1000px-Republica_Romana_svg.png


Jus sayin its an option...

♥ Lily ♥
06-18-2018, 05:08 PM
http://vgsitaliansig.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1000px-Republica_Romana_svg.png


Jus sayin its an option...

I don't think France should be included in that map. Only the southern tip of France is Med and the rest is Germanic and Celtic (Brittany.)

I've seen news reports a few years ago suggesting a currency alliance between the northern European nations who are fed-up of bailing-out the southern EU states. Most of the Northern European nations keep our own currencies and aren't in the Eurozone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoirVkQo1n8

I think forced unions often lead to dictatorships and greed, followed by subsequent hostility and calls for independence. Yugoslavia is an example.

I don't see why other nations can't stand independent and strong from the EU, like Iceland, Switzerland, and Norway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSSaUlnhv5U

Ruggery
06-18-2018, 05:21 PM
I don't think France should be included in that map. Only the southern tip of France is Med and the rest is Germanic and Celtic (Brittany.)

I've seen news reports a few years ago suggesting a currency alliance between the northern European nations who are fed-up of bailing-out the southern EU states. Most of the Northern European nations keep our own currencies and aren't in the Eurozone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoirVkQo1n8

I think forced unions often lead to dictatorships and greed, followed by subsequent hostility and calls for independence. Yugoslavia is an example.

I don't see why other nations can't stand independent and strong from the EU, like Iceland, Switzerland, and Norway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSSaUlnhv5U

It may be better economically but no country in northern Europe except the United Kingdom and perhaps Germany has more world political power than Spain and Italy.

♥ Lily ♥
06-18-2018, 07:20 PM
It may be better economically but no country in northern Europe except the United Kingdom and perhaps Germany has more world political power than Spain and Italy.

Most powerful nations:

https://www.verdict.co.uk/powerful-countries-world/

Spain isn't a G7 nation.


The Group of Seven (G7) is a group consisting of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

This group was created after the removal of Russia from the then Group of Eight. These countries, with the seven largest advanced economies in the world, represent more than 62% of the global net wealth ($280 trillion). The G7 countries also represent more than 46% of the global gross domestic product (GDP) based on nominal values, and more than 32% of the global GDP based on purchasing power parity. The European Union is also represented at the G7 summit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Seven

Most powerful economies in Europe (International Monetary Fund (2018))

1 Germany
2 United Kingdom
3 France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_and_social_rankings_of_sovereign_states_ in_Europe

The UK currently gives £400+ million every week to help fund the poorer EU states, but that will stop after Brexit.

The UK is currently one of Germany's biggest export markets. The UK has signed £billions in more trade deals with China and Trump has continuously stated that he's happy to make more trade deals with the UK as he's a supporter of Brexit.

The UK and US are First Allies to each other. The UK is also an ally to our Commonwealth Nations too. We have an Entente-Cordiale cooperation agreement with France that's lasted for over a century now. The UK, US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are 'Five Eyes' nations whose intelligence and security agencies work closely together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

When a survey was held in Great Britain asking people which alliances mattered the most to us, the responses of the survey found that British people ranked the Commonwealth, the UN, NATO, and G7 as being the most important alliances... and the EU was ranked as the least important union in the survey.

Teutone
06-18-2018, 08:15 PM
Evil Germans and Germany as always

I wonder where the myth is coming from that Germans are anti Latin

brennus dux gallorum
06-18-2018, 08:43 PM
I don't think France should be included in that map. Only the southern tip of France is Med and the rest is Germanic and Celtic (Brittany.)

I've seen news reports a few years ago suggesting a currency alliance between the northern European nations who are fed-up of bailing-out the southern EU states. Most of the Northern European nations keep our own currencies and aren't in the Eurozone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoirVkQo1n8

I think forced unions often lead to dictatorships and greed, followed by subsequent hostility and calls for independence. Yugoslavia is an example.

I don't see why other nations can't stand independent and strong from the EU, like Iceland, Switzerland, and Norway.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSSaUlnhv5U

Celtic as a language was closer to latin than to Germanic, to start with.

Furthermore, modern French speak latin

Leo Iscariot
06-19-2018, 04:19 AM
I don't think France should be included in that map. Only the southern tip of France is Med and the rest is Germanic and Celtic (Brittany.)

Aside from small parts of the extreme north (Immediately bordering Belgium) and Alsace, there is virtually nothing "Germanic" about modern France; and frankly, I'm very perplexed as to why there is this sudden attempt on here at revisionism to disconnect France from the Mediterranean. France has almost infinitely more in common with Italy than Germany.

MinervaItalica
12-08-2019, 12:02 PM
South Europe (especially Italy) should just stop giving own people money to save German banks.

Voskos
12-08-2019, 12:13 PM
Germany has literally 0 power, it's a state controlled by Deutsche Bank , ECB, IMF and Goldman Sachs. I really pity the germans tbh.

sean
12-08-2019, 12:18 PM
Germany has industry that Southern Europe can't compete with. Germany's power is from the Mittelstand, which everyone knows about yet no one is able to duplicate. Germany could have invested those hundreds of billions of Euros into itself to manage the transformation of Germany’s energy system, but instead it took the burden of improving the economic condition of ALL Europe on itself.

Southern Europe is obviously more economically and culturally tied to the rest of Europe today and in fact its always idiots calling for such an alliance so they can claim some glory. Imagine wanting to isolate Southern Europe into a union with camel jockeys in modern North Africa and the Middle East because they were Roman territory 2000 years ago.

Zeno
12-26-2019, 01:59 PM
Germany has industry that Southern Europe can't compete with. Germany's power is from the Mittelstand, which everyone knows about yet no one is able to duplicate. Germany could have invested those hundreds of billions of Euros into itself to manage the transformation of Germany’s energy system, but instead it took the burden of improving the economic condition of ALL Europe on itself.

Southern Europe is obviously more economically and culturally tied to the rest of Europe today and in fact its always idiots calling for such an alliance so they can claim some glory. Imagine wanting to isolate Southern Europe into a union with camel jockeys in modern North Africa and the Middle East because they were Roman territory 2000 years ago.

Until the 80s Greece had its own and powerful industry. But guess why it diminished: because Germany took us into the EU.

Teutone
12-26-2019, 04:52 PM
Germany has industry that Southern Europe can't compete with. Germany's power is from the Mittelstand, which everyone knows about yet no one is able to duplicate. Germany could have invested those hundreds of billions of Euros into itself to manage the transformation of Germany’s energy system, but instead it took the burden of improving the economic condition of ALL Europe on itself.

Southern Europe is obviously more economically and culturally tied to the rest of Europe today and in fact its always idiots calling for such an alliance so they can claim some glory. Imagine wanting to isolate Southern Europe into a union with camel jockeys in modern North Africa and the Middle East because they were Roman territory 2000 years ago.

Germany has such a degenerated and insane population, we currently kill our Mittelstand by demands for higher carbon taxes that kill the backbone of our economy: Automobil Industry.

pulstar
12-26-2019, 05:11 PM
Until the 80s Greece had its own and powerful industry. But guess why it diminished: because Germany took us into the EU.

:crazy:

Zeno
12-26-2019, 05:33 PM
:crazy:

In the meaning that we had autarky and could produce our own industrial products without having to import large quantities from abroad. Until then, every household had almost entirely Greek appliances in their homes. And for public transportation, all vehicles were Greek made from Greek companies, like ELVO, Sarakakis, Viamax etc. You rarely saw any foreign brand in both examples. And even in the old times, the foreign brands had factories here. And the industrial sector occupied 55% of the workforce. That's what I meant.